tv Erin Burnett Out Front CNN January 21, 2019 4:00pm-5:00pm PST
wolf, uber insists it doesn't know the numbers yet and will release them sometime in 2019. >> excellent reporting, drew. thank you. thank you so much and to our viewers, thanks for watching. erin burnet "out front" starts now. "out front" next, classified document that shows a russian oligarch benefitting from trump's sanctions deal after administration promised the whole point he was being punished and trump trying to make a shutdown deal, does he have a plan? a former trump hotel executive says what he cares about is not looking like a loser. that guest is "out front." the viral video between a high school student and native american elder. does that change the story? let's go "out front." good evening, i'm erin burnet. "out front" tonight, "the new york times" reporting there is a confidential document that shows trump administration claims
about a russian oligarch and putin confident are not true. it's a confidential binding document that according to the times lays out a deal between oleg deripaska and trump's department and relieves deripaska from hundreds of millions of dollars of debt and allows he and allies to keep majority ownership. this is stunning and crucial and not just stunning because deripaska is central to the russia investigation, it is stunning because when trump's treasury secretary steven mnuchin announced sanctions were lifted on da eripaska, he said was losing control of the company. that was the just ification. she said they were undergoing governance deripaska's control. begging the question why and as we ask that question, it comes as president trump's lawyer rudy
giuliani is trying to change the timeline on how president trump was personally working on a major deal in moscow during the campaign, a deal that involved putin. giuliani quoting trump himself to the "new york times" saying the talks were quote going on from the day i announced to the day i won. so giuliani sharing that as a quote from the president to "the times." >> in his written answers, president trump's written answers to special counsel robert mueller's questions, what did president trump have to say about the trump moscow project? >> he acknowledge lemmedd they conversations about it. >> throughout 2016. >> yeah, probably up to, could be up to as far as october, november. >> okay. look, this is really significant because dates matter a whole lot when it comes to relations with russia during the campaign. what this means, what rudy
giuliani did there was admit talks lasted much longer than previously believed. now according to court k dome documents, he said they stopped in 2016 because that was after everybody lied and said they stopped before the primaries began. then it was june 14th and now gho giuliani says it went through the entire election that proves all of this was false. >> i know nothing about the inner workings of russia. i don't deal there and have no businesses. >> i don't know putin. have no business whatsoever with russia. have nothing to do with russia. >> i have nothing to do with russia, folks. they said maybe donald trump is involved in projects with the russians, the answer is no. no. >> okay. so not only is all that not true, but if trump was continuing to push a major project in moscow through the election, it puts a whole new
light on these sorts of comments. >> russia, if you're listening, i hope you're able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing. the people of crimea from what i heard would rather be with russia than where they were. i hope i like him and i hope he likes me because i would love to get along with russia, okay? >> sure would, right? there was a lot of money at stake if you didn't think you would win the white house, which he didn't and giuliani desperately trying to do cleanup. the statements talking about trump tower and moscow were hypothetical and not based on conversations with the president. okay, the problem is that does not add up because giuliani quoted trump to the "new york times." he didn't hypothetically say maybe what trump thought. he quoted him saying that the president told him that talks were quote going on from the day i announced to the day i won.
a quote from the president. and then out front live in washington and out big of a problem could these comments from rudy giuliani be? there is a quote he provided and multiple interviews and very clearly moved the timeline a lot. >> that's right. not only did he move the timeline, he filled in the timeline there and look, i think we make a lot of fun about rudy giuliani and make fun of the fact he's all over the place with his comments, but this time he may have created a real legal problem for his client. and i'll tell you why. the president's answer to robert mueller's written questions only says simply that the records that the president had, his organization, the organization, the trump organization goes up until january of 2016. what rudy giuliani has now done, he's quoted his client, right? talk about attorney client privilege. he says until the day i won that these conversations were still
happening and said there were fleeting conversations he told "the new york times." "the new york times" interview was particularly damaging potentially for rudy giuliani's client and in the cleanup attempt, he says these conversations were simply hypothetical and not based on actual conversations with the president. so now if you're a prosecutor sitting at robert mueller's office, you have every reason to come back to the president's team and say look, you guys have to clear this up and the only way to clear this up is for the president to sit down for an interview with the prosecutors and i got to tell you, the reason why this is a big deal is because here we are, all indications are we're close to the finish line and the president's team has managed to stop any sitdown interview between the president and robert mueller's team and here
giuliani created an opportunity. >> hugely significant and you have to wonder why if giuliani knew the timeline was out there, he would so repeatedly change it when it would cause a problem. he may have been all over the map, but he's got his reputation being a smart attorney. out front now, u.s. assistant attorney, former assistant secretary for the department of homeland security under president obama and "new york times" op ed columnist. harry, first to you, how, just on the base of it, the facts that rudy giuliani is saying are different than what they have been supposedly until michael cohen lied and moved it up. how significant was it if these talks in trump tower and moscow were going on the whole time? >> there is political significance. it could influence voters if they knew those conversations were going as late as the election but legally significant because it could be inconsistent
with what witnesses told investigators or have told congress during the course of their investigation. it's also legally significant because if we are looking for some sort of a kid proqquid pro relationship, what were the business discussions between the trump campaign and trump personal and russia and russia figures on the other hand. >> i want to get to the deripaska news. when we get to the timing, giuliani is saying okay, okay, if trump was working on a moscow tower deal, it didn't impact the campaign promises, right? the quote was it was such a minor matter. it wasn't a minor matter and felix sater, a russian-born business associate said they considered gifting putin a gift house in moscow that would be worth $50 million, that was a marketing thing discussed and i'm using this to make the point not only putin being relevant but this was not a small amount
of money. minor matter? >> no, it definitely was not minor matter and when it comes to collusion or corruption, you're not a little bit pregnant. either the trump team and the trump children who are implicated in this one were negotiating to make a good deal for trump and remember, trump is assuming he's going to lose so on the other side of this he's riching and consistently lied about it. whether it's january, june or november, they have lied about it the whole time, and this idea, the last thing is this idea that giuliani has a hypothetical conversation with donald trump, like, i have hypothetical conversations with oprah winfrey and george clooney but i'm not their clear. this is his lawyer. you don't have hypothetical conversations with your lawyer. i believe giuliani spoke the truth and they are trying to clean it up now because they have been lying about this deal since day one. >> clearly that there has beere.
there is such inconsistency. when rudy tries to clean this up and said okay, when i said i quoted him and used the word i and everything, i didn't really mean it, it was hypothetical and i don't really know the exact date because there is no record of it and trump, you know, he doesn't really recall. okay? the thing about trump is, a, this was an important deal, and b, trump recalls things. okay. here he is. >> i have a good memory like a great memory. people know me for my memory. >> i don't have teleprompters here, folks. it's called up here and memory. >> okay. humorous way of making a serious point. >> the words of a stable genius, right? i honestly think when it comes to russia and these different narratives that giuliani and trump lose track of what they said because i think, this
sounds cynical, they are lying or spending so much time in so many different directions i don't think they can keep an accurate and compete account of what they have said and what they are now contra incompetent diddi -- contradicting. at the end of the day, what we have and it's the beginning of the end of the story, you have all of those instances of trump on tape telling voters, telling us over and over again i don't care about russia. i have no interest in russia et cetera and we have from numerous sources giuliani, michael cohen, i'm sure robert mueller has the evidence that was not true through the majority of 2016. he was lying. why was he lying? >> answer into that, the layer about oleg deripaska sanctions. obviously he is also important and central. he's one manafort is communicating with people to share information with deripaska. deripaska came to the united states on a diplomatic visa, he's that close to putin and
they say guess what? we'll keep the sanctions on his company but get rid of the personal sanctions on him because he's going to lose money and he's not maintaining control and there is a confidential document saying it's not so. >> this is really serious. it means that treasury secretary mnuchin essentially lied to i think the republicans, the republican senators he was trying to get on board. i want to make the best case for why the sanctions should have been lifted because a lot of people that don't follow this think of course they wanted to lift him. the company is a global supplier of aluminum. they didn't want this company to fall apart. it is actually an important company we saw. the deal was, okay, we won't -- we'll take the sanctions off but he won't benefit, that the leadership will essentially change and now "the new york times" is reporting that that actually wasn't true. these were misrepresentations made specifically to the senate republicans, people like mitt romney who voted for the lifting of the sanctions and now have
mud on their face and this is a lie from the treasury secretary exposed by "the new york times", very serious for the treasury secretary because we know the treasury department was not for the lifting of the sanctions and he over rode them. why once again do they always want to make oligarchs happy? i think we know the answer. >> harry, that is the big why. >> yeah, absolutely. again, if you're looking to try to figure out does the president act like somebody who feels an obligation to do things that are supportive of putin like we saw saw, that's the way he's acting. he's not acting like somebody who can maybe even as a demonstration of his independence slap back at putin and allies. >> to frank, its was very clear that someone like deripaska is
not going to give this up. he would find someway to retain what he wanted. mnuchin is a smart person. he knew that, too. he over rode his own treasury department. i'm sure there are folks in the treasury department leaking this information. >> if you're a little league coach and everyone says you favor your son, you can't keep putting him in center field. everyone is saying trump is favoring russia and in control and keeps showing them preference. next senator camilla harris is in. >> i'm running for president of the united states. >> but will her past as a prosecutor hunt her? plus the white house pushing ahead with the president's plan to end the shutdown? what's the backup plan now? we're coming here on another friday with zero, zero paychecks. new video showing what lead up to the viral confrontation between a native american elder
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camilla harris says she's running for president and feels a responsibility to do that. kung law is out front. >> reporter: on the martin luther king junior holiday at her alma mater, the historically black college of howard university, senator camilla harris says she can beat president trump in 2020. >> i feel a sense of responsibility to stand up and fight for the best of who we are, and i'm prepared to fight, and i know how to fight. that's why i'm running for president of the united states. >> reporter: california's junior senator first selected in 2016 made an early mark with her rapid fire questions in the senate from supreme court nominees. >> can you think of any laws that give the government the power to make decisions about the male body? >> i'm not thinking of any right now, senator. >> reporter: to justice department officials. >> he has -- >> yes, or no, sir? >> he has the full independence
as authorized by the regulations -- >> are you willing to do what has to be done before. >> making more than one of them squirm. >> i'm not able to be rushed this fast. it makes me nervous. ♪ ♪ >> reporter: the native of oakland says she embodies everything california stands for and what the president is against. she's the daughter of immigrants, a father from jamaica and a mother from southern india, both active in the civil rights era. >> it was about fighting to make sure that all people had a say in their future. >> reporter: as a san francisco district attorney, harris crafted innovative programs to reform the criminal justice system at a time when other pros c prosecutors were taking a tough on crime approach and despite political pressure from her own party, she refused to seek the death penalty against the killer of a police officer sticking to a core campaign pledge and personal belief.
>> chosen to be the next attorney general of the state of california. >> reporter: as california's first black woman attorney general, progressive says say harris was not progressive enough failing to seek justice for the wrongfully imprisoned, decisions harris says were made by attorneys who reported to her. >> there were folks who made a decision in my office and had not consulted with me and i wish they had but again, i take full responsibility for those decisions. >> reporter: a history that is both an asset and an opening for attack. this month at a book tour stop in san francisco, an audience outburst. we are so -- >> i think that she does have to address that because that's a real important issue in the black community. >> reporter: she did talk about that several times in the book tour, you can be prolaw enforcement, prolaw order as well as for reforming the system. she says picking one or the other is a false choice and i
did speak to a number of democratic analysts that say what may hurt her or be challenging for progressives now could help her in the general. >> right, of course. the big issue. thank you so much. let's go to mark from the white house legislative affairs for president trump and nina turner, former ohio state senator and commentator also with me. nina, democrats pouncing on her. your enemies in the primaries can bring you down, much more so than in the general it seems. are they legitimate grievances that might stick? >> they certainly, you know, the senator's decision to run is an inspiration to lots of people. i mean, she's a woman of color. she brings a lot to the table, but in terms of her record or anybo anybody's record, and her record, anybody that served in elected office, their record will be examined and people are rightfully should examine the
record of everybody who has run and let me just say this, also, erin, in this space sometimes we don't allow opportunities for people to evolve. we should celebrate if people do truly evolve but she will have to answer as any other person that is running for the presidency of the united states of america will have to answer for their record. and particularly being a prosecutor in a criminal justice system that unjust and unfair to black folks, brown folks and poor folks, there will be lots of questions to answer but as you just displayed, she is certainly willing to take full responsibility for her record and that is a good start. >> so mark, is she a formidable challenger? >> she's a very formidable challenger. she's risen quickly and she's a quitter herself and she made a prominent with the committee here in the senate. i think that she's a very
formidable candidate. you don't know until you put together a campaign and see how that goes, the ups and downs of campaign cycle. i found it astounding that somebody as liberal as senator harris perhaps is considered enough for primary voters that is astounding. >> when you say it's astounding thanks is what we're seeing fronl tfrom the people running so far. anything they are doing is not in line with the democratic party. we've seen apologizes for some of them. let me play a few of them for those and other things in recent days. >> i realize that things i had said were wrong. in my past i said and believed things that were wrong. >> to the women in our campaign who were harassed or misstretre i apologize. >> i know we haven't always got things right but i've always tried. >> nina, talking about
immigration saying that she was wrong. lgbt for gabbord. things done were mature candidates, politicians when they had those believes. >> it doesn't make a lot of room for people to evolve. not a question the voters will have to decide is whether this evolution is real or whether it is really just for political, really for political ex paid n expecting for people to truly evolve and that remains to be seen and in terms of being surprised whether or not somebody is liberal enough or left enough, listen, this is a much different country than it was 20 years ago, 50 years ago.
we know different things that work better in the criminal justice system for example instead of fooling folks that they will be locked up for the rest of their lives. everyone who runs no matter who they are will have to answer for their record and they will have to explain what that evolution, the trancendence. they have to determine whether it's real. >> mark, who do you think, elizabeth warren, whether it's true or not but who do you think we should be worried about? >> so far the candidates, i don't see a candidate he should be worried about. the reality is where the party is going and the democrat side is so far to the left it's out of the main stream. so i think while she has inspiring record and while i think she has an inspiring story
to tell, i don't think her view points are the main stream of america. >> you know i'm shaking my head. >> i see it. i know. i see it but don't worry. we'll continue it. >> please. and next, no apparent plan b, that's the way things appear tonight. so we're on day 31 and friday is coming and more than 800,000 american wills have a second pay period with no paycheck at all. >> a man that worked side by side with trump knows why the president is not winning the shutdown showdown thus far. he's "outfront".
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house senate is on track. the vote would take place on thursday. the problem is of course this plan is likely headed nowhere. democrats say it's a non-starter. the government shutdown now in it's 31st day. 31 days without pay for more than 800 thousand americans and yet another paycheck going to have zeros on it on friday. abby phillip is "outfront" live at the white house, what is the white house thinking tonight. >> reporter: the white house is keenly aware the second paycheck federal workers will receive with no money is coming up this friday and they are seeking to really change the dynamic. after president trump. voters stood by that and took him at his word and an effort to really change that dynamic to get democrats to the negotiating table and make it seem more that president trump was eager to end the shutdown. the white house introduced this plan but democrats have said and they have said this from the
very beginning, they want to reopen the government before they have any discussions about the border wall or border wall funding. so while the president's plan is going to be introduced this week, might be voted on as early as thursday, there is no expe expectation on either side this plan will in fact advance because it won't get enough votes in the senate and also because nancy pelosi is unlikely to take it up in the house, that means that we are really nowhere here. this is day 31. there is no progress being made to end the shutdown and democrats and republicans are once again staring at each other in the face and really neither of them getting closer to a resolution. what we're seeing here is an effort to change the political dynamics around this shutdown more than ending it, erin. >> abby, thank you very much. and now i want to go to the chairman of the house homeland security committee democratic congressman benny thompson. i appreciate your time, congressman. were democrats too quick to reject the democrat's proposal before he announced anything? >> well, clearly, it was nothing
new. this is the trump shutdown. he owns it. let's put the workers back to work. they are not rich people. they have mortgages. they have obligations, and to put them in this situation is untenable. president trump put those american citizens back to work. then let's sit down like adults and work through these situations. you can't do it on twitter. you can't do it on saturday. let's do it together around the table and that's the democratic message. the wall is a non-starter. let's put the people back to work and then let's sit down and talk. >> so, you know, some of the president's supporters see this obviously very differently than you do. in fact, they think he is giving away too much in his offer. ann coulter, she's influential with the president, she said he shouldn't. we voted for trump and got jeb.
what is your response to that? >> well, you know, we are looking for a pathway to citi n citizenship for a lot of our dreamers. let's work through that. a temporary fix that for three years is really not going to get us there. so again, the first thing we need to do is put the 800,000 people working and not being paid. let's put them back to work and make sure all of this is taken care of and sit down like adults and work it out. you can't have temper tantrums. the president said he will own the shutdown. mr. president, all you have to do is cut it off, put the people back to work, direct people to be paid and then let's sit down and work this out. some of the things in terms of what i've been hearing make sense like adding more judges to
the court system. so our system won't be clogged. it makes sense. but the border wall is a non-starter. >> now obviously, you know, a year ago, you-all are willing to include some sort of border wall in exchange for a lot of things. what's changed you don't do it in any case at all considering there is a wall in a lot of places that does work? >> well, i think let's take our ports of entry. most of the problems we have with immigration on our southern border, we catch a lot of drugs coming through there. let's fortify those areas where we know things are happening but this notion of a 2000-mile wall is not who we are as a people. our value system as americans is different than that. so again, those areas at ports of entry i agree, let's make them as solid and as fortified as possible but what the
president is talking about is something all together different. >> i want to ask you, of course, congressman about today. martin luther king day. one of your democratic colleagues in the house hakim jeffreys spoke about the president on this martin luther king day where the president visited martin luther king memorial for two minutes, did not mention him by name. here is what he had to say. >> we have a hater in the white house. a birther in chief. the grand wizard of 1600 pennsylvania avenue. >> the grand wizard of 1600 pennsylvania avenue. does that go too far? >> well, let me tell you, you look at a person's record. the fact checkers have indicated that president trump has lied over 7,000 times since he's been in office. he's talked about women. he's talked about minorities. he's talked about every group of
people you can imagine. you have to set a high eer standard for so for him to go to martin luther king's statute today for two minutes and my understanding is that's all he had on his schedule today, two minutes on a national holiday for a man so great who gave his life for this country to make it a pbetter place, i think it's a insult. a lot of people react differently. congressman jeffreys has his opinion, we all have our own opinion but i can tell you this, the president should do better. he can't talk about people every day and expect people to respect him. that's not being presidential. it's about leadership. mr. president, we need leadership from the white house, not someone whose always having
temper tran tr temp temper tantrums. >> thank you. one of executives of trump's casin casinos says the president is dealing with the shutdown the same way. what may have lead to the stair down between a teenager and native american elder. when did soup become this? at panera, we treat soup differently. with vine ripened tomatoes, signature cheddar, simmered to perfection. with big flavors, not artificial ones. enjoy 100% clean soup today. panera. food as it should be. enjoy 100% clean soup today. hit's a long-distance journey, e psoriasis is not always easy. and you have the determination to keep going. humira has a proven track record of being prescribed for over 10 years. humira works inside the body to target
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tonight president trump taunting nancy pelosi tweeting if nancy pelosi thinks walls are immoral why don't we take down all the existing walls, even the new ones built in san diego but millions of unchecked strangers just flow into the u.s. just as how trump is handling the shutdown and people that have worked with him, say that are not surprised we're in a stalemate. jack o'donnell, former president and chief operating officer at the trump plaza hotel and casino. this is behavior you say is familiar. president trump lashed out at his chief of staff for how he handled the shutdown. you've seen similar behavior from him in the past. tell us about it. >> well, i think he's, you know, a man that just digs his heels in and i think that's what he's done here. and in most of the negotiations that i was involved with him, it took an adult on the other side to kind of bring him along.
unfortunately, in this case, erin, that's not happening from either side which quite frankly is sad to me, but he is -- he is -- he's dug in on this one and it's what he does. the difference in this situation quite frankly and i think he's perplexed by this is that most of the deals that he negotiates, he relies on back end negotiation, and what i mean by that is, that afterward, his word, he don't keep his word. people sue and he settles and gets a better deal later on. he can't see his way to the better deal here so he's dug his heels in. >> it's different. how do you see this working out given what you saw in the past? digging his heels in sounds like that's how he did things, right? >> it's exactly how he did things, but he likes really simple deals.
and he likes very quick deals and very often in business, that's what he would get. i think the longer this goes on, i think it's going to get to him, and i actually do think that there is a compromise here, and i think he'd be open to a compromise. what you have to understand and i think you know this, is that perception to him is really what's critical. and if the democrats could find a way to show a path toward $5 billion with contingencies and that's the language he understands, i think they could bring him along because he would still be able to say i got my $5 billion, even if there were strings attached to hit. >> right. >> but, you know, and i think that's what it's going to take for him and i think he'll come off that number, i really do because in negotiations and again, they are not really negotiating here. they are both putting up propels. >> it's a stalemate. >> in a real negotiation, yeah. >> so, you know, he said several times, furloughed workers, 800,000 americans, doesn't
everyone count contractors that they support him. here he is, jack. >> many people that aren't getting a payment, that aren't being paid have let us know in the strongest of terms a big amount, they said sir, what you're doing is a paramount of importance. many of the people that aren't being paid right now are in total agreement with us. the people that will be paid but maybe a little bit later, those people, many of them are on my side. >> jack, do you see similarities in how he's talking about those, the workers not getting paid and how he dealt with his own employees? >> well, erin, you know, the employees are commodities, assets there to serve him and that's how he treated employees in atlantic city and i think he's doing the same with the government workers today. i think he believes they can all be replaced, if necessary. >> jack, thank you very much. next, a search for truth.
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>> tonight, new video in the vi viral confrontation between a high school student and native american. the school issued a statement condemning the student and tonight that same statement remains on the front page of the website. the teen on the clip is speaking out and tigfighting back. >> reporter: we are now hearing from the >> reporter: we are hearing from the chaperones that came face to face with the elder. the chaperones are defending the students and putting the blame on this group of black men hurling insult on these boys. >> you have those pompous [ bleep ] boys coming down with their dirty [ bleep ] hat on. >> i can't believe they listened to the vitriol and hatred shouting at them. as a mother, it was horrible.
horrible. >> our boys did nothing, no violence. they did not attack those people. they stood there waiting for the bus. >> reporter: a group of israelites said demeaning things to everyone around them. first the priests and the students wearing make america great again hats. the students watch and students gather and the taunting gets worse. >> you're an invest baby, a bunch of babies made out of incest. >> reporter: they said the rhetoric is startling. because we were being loudly attacked in public, a student asked our chaperones for permission to begin school spirit chances to counter the hateful things shouted at our group. at one point, a student removes his shirt riling up the students and a chant. two minutes later you hear a drum beat, nathan philip itself
the omaha tribe elder comes in. he is no stranger to conflict. he protested with thousands of others at standing rock against the.com access pipeline. philip had just attended the indigenous people's march and said he thought things were getting out of hand. so he tried to use his native american music to quell the tension. >> there was this young group of young students that came there and were offended by their speech and it escalated. >> alan: an ugly situation that i found myself in the middle of. >> reporter: the kids danced and began chanting, some do a tomahawk alcohol something the native american community find offensive. philips moves around the group, beating his drum, soon comes face to face with sand men. i believe by remaining motionless and calm, i was helping to diffuse the situation.
i realized everyone had cameras and that perhaps a group of adults was trying to provoke a group of teenagers into a larger conflict. they had every opportunity to separate. neither do. the hebrew israelites continue taunting the kid. >> this is a bunch of future school shooters. >> reporter: you can hear american native elders say you stole our land and a check student from a different school responds. >> that's how it works. >> the students do not agree. they don't see the things the same way. but they do agree on one point. >> that is the source of all of this tension had to do with all of the obscenities being yelled at these kid an hour before you see that face-off in that viral video that came from the hebrew israelites. >> yeah, thank you very much. and next, is this the last
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there's an old go-to phrase now being used to defend the president. jeanie mos says, so what! >> reporter: it's that last ditch line of defense, two words uttered dismissably to quash any question. >> and so what if he talked -- >> reporter: rudy guiliani saying -- >> so what. >> reporter: when asked if president trump talked to michael cohen about his testimony. >> so what, right? >> reporter: had reporters saying, what? so what has lots of cousins, for instance, so without what? >> two-thirds of americans say it's not worth fighting. >> so. >> reporter: and michael cohen, himself, back in the day when he had candidate trump's back had his own two word comeback.
>> but you guys are down. >> says who? >> and it makes sense. >> says who? >> polls, most of them. all of them. >> says who? >> reporter: but so what has another close relative. one president trump seems especially fond of. >> what cares? >> who cares? >> who cares? >> reporter: the president professed not to care even when told alexandria ocasio-cortez called him a racist. >> who scares? >> reporter: joy behar was caught saying, who cares? >> so what? who cares? >> so what? who cares? >> reporter: well, anthony scaramucci loongs likes to elongate his and hill i use elevated language to say the same thing. >> what difference at this point does it make? >> reporter: it's one thing for pink. ♪ so stand up >> reporter: or metallica to sing it. >> so what!
>> so wham so what. >> reporter: but for politicians, it's often the retort of last resort. >> says who? >> reporter: me, jeanie mos. >> who cares? >> cnn. >> so what! >> reporter: new york. >> who cares? >> thank you for joining us. anderson starts now. good evening, we begin with a question. is president trump's tv lawyer rudy guiliani really bad at his job or is he very, very good at muddying the waters? whatever it is, he was at it again today and over the weekend. first, quickly, some background, not withstanding the water muddying and smoke blowing the central facts were pretty clear. when we left you friday night, robert mueller's office had taken a rare step of disputing buzzfeed that president trump instructed his former corporate attorney michael cohen to lie to congress about the real estate deal the trump organization was pursue figure