tv New Day With Alisyn Camerota and John Berman CNN January 25, 2019 4:00am-5:01am PST
news. long-time donald trump associate and former adviser roger stone has been arrested and indicted by a grand jury on charges brought by the special counsel roblt robert mueller. our cnn cameras were there exclusively when fbi agents, you can see them in riot gear approached stone's house before sunrise at a round 6:00 this morning. they raided his home and they arrested roger stone. here is a moment of that arrest. [ pounding on door ]. >> fbi, open the door. [ pounding on door ]. >> fbi, warrant. >> the indictment reveals stone saw the stolen e-mails from wikileaks that could damage donald trump's opponents at the direction of a senior trump
campaign official. let's get right to cnn's sara murray who broke this story less than an hour ago. tell us what you've learned. >> you showed the video there. this was a huge surprise i can tell you to roger stone as well as his legal team that he was arrested this morning. he's been a target of this investigation for essentially almost two years. but he had never been contacted by mueller's office up until this point. now, shortly after this -- them showing up at his home, special counsel's office did put out a statement acknowledging his arrest saying he's been charged with seven counts, one of obstruction of justice, five counts of making false statements and one count of witness tampering. now, roger stone has insisted throughout this that he was innocent. obviously we have not heard from him this morning since he's been taken into custody. but one of the things we were talking about earlier is these are counts that really did do have to do with how he has behaved throughout the course of this investigation, not to the central question of collusion. although when you dig into the indictment, it does begin to
reveal that rorth stone wger st contact with the trump campaign throughout this investigation. wikileaks had damaging information about the clinton campaign, these are just the early details we're getting but roger stone is expected to be arraigned this morning. we're expected to see him in fort lauderdale in court at 11:00 a.m. and so we'll probably get more information on the situation then, john. >> absolutely, sara. please stand by for us as we watch this video. there's roger stone. in the doorway, if we put that back up, this is roger stone being awoken by these fbi acts and i'd say riot gear, it's just flap jackets. they're wearing bullet proof vests. one had a helmet on. agents wear that when they don't know what they're going to encounter and it is just remarkable, anne, to see this because this not how anyone else connected to the robert mueller investigation has been arrested the not paul manafort. this is not a civilized let's walk into the courthouse with our attorney. this is something quite
different. >> that's right. when someone's represented by counsel as a rule, and you believe that they'll be cooperative, they'll come into court and voluntarily surrender, you say your client's been indicted, please come in. here, mueller's team had reason to believe that would not be the case. and this is a standard procedure to arrest someone who you don't have a belief that they've come in voluntarily. it could be that they're afraid he'll flee, it could be that there's evidence he would destroy and they wanted the element of surprise. they're going in at the crack of dawn with agents fully armed and there's a reason. we don't know that fully yet, but there's a reason they did that. >> let's bring a whole group of people into this conversation. joe lockhart, you heard from anne milligram, john avlon here as well. let me read you two paragraphs in this 24-page indictment here that are new. new connections outlined here between the trump campaign and wikileaks, the hacked e-mails, by, in or around june and july, 2016, stone informed senior
trump campaign officials that he had information indicating organization one, wikileaks, had documents who's release would be damage together clinton campaign. head of organization, that's wikileaks, organization one was located at all relevant times at the ecuadorian embassy in london, united kingdom. now this. after the july 22nd, 2016 release of stolen dnc e-mails by wiki leekds, a seep, could trump campaign official was directed to contact stone about any additional releases and what other damaging information wikileaks had regarding the clinton campaign. stone thereafter told the trump campaign about potential future releases of damaging material by organization one. david gregory, the words trump campaign and wikileaks all over those two paragraphs right there, the trump campaign robert mueller's team was aware of and directing at a certain level coordination with wikileaks. >> right. and we expect that mueller will
establish that these hacks were conducted by the russians. and that wikileaks was passing them off. so they are the link to the trump campaign. if we pull back even farther, we understand something that we've understood for months, which is the trump campaign was open for business for any oppo research, whether it was from the russianors anybody elsrussians else. that's a key piece and that's consistent. there will be a question as to whether or not anyone knew that the russians were responsible for these hacks at this particular time. but this becomes a key point in trying to understand what the link was between the campaign and russian who's were actually involved in trying to interfere with the election. and roger stone is alleged to have been this middleman. somebody who's got the experience in the dark arts of campaigns and dirty tricks and his predictions and e-mails about this is when the hillary
campaign will die, this is the kind of person who the president, the candidate at the time, had close. >> i can just say in terms of filling in the timeline here, everyone knew that the russians had hacked the dnc by that point, at least they've been told by the dnc that that was the case. >> right. >> it was june 14th, 2016, that the dnc publicly announced it had been hacked by what they believed to be russian government actors. so a full month before, you know, the trump campaign is directing contact with wikileaks on this, theoretically they knew. >> john avlon, you've been pouring through this. what jumps out? >> i want to focus on that one sentence that john threw up, a senior trump official was directed to contact stone about any additional releases and whatever damaging information organization one wikileaks had. by whom? that's the key point in this sentence. that may be the most significant sentence and open question in this document. there's a lot of new information from timelines to text messages and e-mails.
you really get a glimpse into roger stone's nixonee psyche. but that's the key question that this raises. >> joe lockhart, this video is so -- you know, attention grabbing it's just -- it tells you that robert mueller believed that they needed the element of surprise. they did it in the cover of darkness, they did it with a big team of people, many of us as reporters have gone along on ride alongs with cops and fbi whak agents when they do this. it's a heart pounding moment for the people it's pounding on and the fbi agents at the door. >> i expect them to jump all over the jackbooted thugs coming in. it reminds me a little bit of going back in time of gonzalez where there were thee people's going in to take a child. what we didn't talk about at the time was we had very good intel that people inside that house
were both armed and drinking heavily and no one wants to put an fbi agent in jeopardy for optics. so you'll always take -- and i think they must have had intel that there either was something in that house, maybe he owned firearms, maybe there was evidence that he could get rid of and that's -- that's why they did that. >> i think that the counter to when we will invariably hear the stone supporters say look at this, you know, whatever they're going to say, that's not how any of the other people connected to robert mueller's investigation had been arrested. that has been as civilized, you walk in with your attorney as possible. >> and it goes to how roger stone has dealt with the special counsel and how his legal team has, they have not been cooperative. he has gone on television and taunted them. one of the point i picked up on what david said, we can't talk about this as opposition research in the is opposition research to something i've done
my entire life, comb through google and newspapers and files. this is a foreign government hacking a candidate for president in an attempt to influence our election and to bring that candidate down. that's not opposition research. that's criminal behavior. >> i can tell you who agrees with you in this case? the secretary of state mike pompeo who has called wikileaks, he said it is time to call out wikileaks for what it really is, a non-state hostile intelligence service often embedded by state actors like russia and now we have been told by robert mueller's team that the trump campaign was trying to make contact and coordinate with a non-state hostile intelligence service often embedded by state actors like russia. i can make one other point? i don't think these fbi agents are getting paid. i think these are right now furloughed fbi workers working without a salary doing their job showing up to work without pay and that job today involves
taking into custody and arresting someone very close to the president. jeffrey toobin, our chief legal analyst joins us right now. also happens to be someone who's written exsetensively about rog stone. this is a day people saw coming, jeffrey? what's your take. >> roger -- you're not roger, berman, i was just in that house two weeks ago. i am a in a little bit of shock watching this video. it's, you know, i have known roger stone for a very long time, i wrote a wrong profile of him ten years ago "the new yorker." i'm working on a story about him now and i was just in the house. and it's -- it's really a shocking -- but like so much in these past two years, this is shocking but not surprising. he has been taunting the mueller investigation for months. he has -- he admittedly was in close touch with people close to
wikileaks, if not with wikileaks itself in the period leading up to the 2016 election. he didn't think he was going to get indicted, but he knew it was a possibility. and here we are. >> you know, there's someone else who knew that what roger stone was doing at the time for the campaign was wrong, according to this, and that was roger stone. here is page nine, letter d. later on that day on or about october 4th, 2016, the supporter involved with the trump campaign asked stone via text message if he'd heard anymore from london. stone replied, yes, want to talk on a secure line? got whatsapp? stone subsequently told the supporter that more material would be released and that it would be damaging to the clinton campaign. nia, that tells you when somebody wants to speak on a secure line that they know this is not on the up and up what they're trying to do. >> i think that's right and it's pretty obvious here. you have that in the indictment
here, him trying to do this in secret. there were times publicly he did talk about this, he did seem to essentially predict what wikileaks was going to do, what was going to come next. it's going to be i think he said podesta's time in the barrel next and then it was. but this is a fascinating document. you know, to avalon's point, this idea that someone in the trump campaign actually directed another senior campaign official to have stone recount to this organization, wikileaks, and the idea that stone at some point comes to the campaign officials, we don't know how many officials that is. obviously we know that manafort was sharing poll data with folks over in russia or ties to russia. but this, i think, is a red had letter day in terms of the conversation around this investigation. we'll of course have to wait and see what the president will say about this. he on the campaign trail basically talked about wikileaks
a lot and said oh, wikileaks is great, what they're doing is photographic. we've also seen him distance himself from some of the folks that are in mueller's sites. it will be interesting to see if he's able to do that. he probably will try to do that with roger stone. but this indictment certainly suggests that even after roger stone officially left the campaign he was certainly still in touch with folks in that campaign in very major ways around wikileaks, at least this is what this indictment says. >> and john and alisyn, as we look at these photos, nothing concentrates the mind like this kind of reality for you where you're brought into an investigation and you're actually charged criminally. and whatever the president's response to this, whatever other sympathizers response to this, there's only one person who's going to put all of these pieces together for us and that's muell mueller ultimately through indictments and final report. and i think to the extent this goes inside the campaign about
dealing with a foreign power seeking to interfere with our election is the critical point here and does stone provide more information about who was involved? how close it got to the president? that's what's critical. agree with the point that joe lockhart brought up about really understanding the distinction between opposition research and a foreign power seeking to interfere. what is striking to me is how the president has publicly said, you know, about the troufrp tow trump tower meeting, who wouldn't accept damaging information on your opponent? so the arrogance and huberance on your opponent in a foreign power trying to interfere, let elone whether there's other pieces of this about why there was a closer relationship with russia that may have been about a financial relationship with russia and business dealings with russia. this is another critical piece in what mueller's starting to build, a sense of the overall and what it looks like. >> we know that donald trump as a candidate talked regularly to
rorth stone. roger stone. we had the campaign manager tell us it drove him crazy. is he the person that directed that contact? is the by whom the president? we don't know. jeffrey toobin, we were all present dollars these 24 pages a few minutes ago and we've been looking through. i want to know from you, you're a senior legal analyst here. big picture, what is new from this? what do you see this jumps out to you? how does this change the story? >> it's -- it's two things. one is the sheer number of people he was in touch with about -- about wikileaks. among the people who had been known to be in touch with him are jerome corsi, the writer of conservative books who was also involved in these transactions. he's mentioned in here. randy cred randy credico, who's a new york
radio host, he's the recipient of some of these a mails here. but the big news this this indictment is the reference to people in the trump campaign. those people were outsiders. the -- what we're going to have to figure out or wait to find out is who was stone talking to on the inside of the campaign? because that's what's really the potentially explosive thing here. it's one thing to talk about these various sort of people who were around the -- around the trump campaign but not part of it like corsi, but if he was -- if stone was in touch with people in the campaignard of course with candidate trump himself because they were, you know, in regular touch by telephone, that would be an explosive development if, of course, mueller could prove it. >> we've been watching this -- jeffrey, i just want to put up the video again. this is exclusive cnn video.
this is what happened this morning before sunrise just before 6:00 a.m. when roger stone, long-time trump associate and adviser was taken into custody by the fbi. there's a moment of audio on here that i want to play for everyone, because this is what the first sounds that roger stone woke up to this morning was the fbi pounding on his door and shouting this. i want to just play this for a moment. [ pounding on door ]. >> fbi, open the door. [ pounding on door ]. >> fbi, warrant. >> and you point out that when the second time when they say fbi, warrant, you'd like to know if that meant search warrant or arrest warrant. >> it's clear there's an arrest warrant because he's been indicted. and the question i think is did they serve another warrant, a search warrant at the same time? you know, we'll know that i think probably soon enough if
the agents stayed and went into the house and spent time there the answer will be probably yes. if they all left when they to took -- when they took stone out the assistance probably no. >> you've been pouring through this and just so people know why the fbi showed up, they allege high-level of obstruction here by roger stone. k the extents he went to lie and deceive and tamper according to this document is extraordinary. >> jeff just pointed out the volume of contacts. there are an extraordinary -- this isn't one conversation with trump -- this isn't one communication with wikileaks, but then when you look at the obstruction, there are text messages, information included here where he is actively saying to people, you know, john's going to quote richard nix on. >> what an extraordinary example. he has an upper back tattoo of richard nixon. he worked for him. when a person, too, says he wants to speak to his lawyer, randy credico, apparently, stone replies, quote, stonewall it,
plead the fifth, anything to save the plan-richard nixon, quoting richard nixon telling him to shut up in effect. and when person 2 later flips and is apparently talking to lawyers, stone communicates, you're a rat, a stoolly, you back stab your friends. he also threat ends to, quote, take that dog away from you threatening the man's pet. i'm so ready, let's get it on, prepare to die. >> he also quotes frank, the godfather 2 was referred to in this. >> but i think if you know how campaigns work, there's always in every -- i've worked in five presidential campaigns. there's always someone who's been with the candidate from the beginning. and that person is always a huge pain for the rest of the staff. and i'm not going to name names here, but they have the candidates here, but importantly they don't have the rest of the staffs here. those people call, you ignore them. it could be the candidates' brother, it could be someone they grew up with. roger stone is the person who is at ground zero of donald trump's political career. he's the guy who planted the
idea, you can be president of the united states. and my guess is, it's a very small circle of people who could be the one that we're talking about here. >> who directed roger stone. >> yes. and donald trump is in that circle. >> yeah, go ahead, jeffrey. >> well, you know, i don't know if they had a search warrant, as we know they certainly had an arrest warrant. but if they had a search warrant, one thing they are going to find is this. i happen to keep this in my -- in my briefcase and i just noticed it this morning. one way roger is fundraising is he is selling these stones, get it, roger stone, autographed stones? and there are two big boxes of them there in his house. and i think if you send him ten bucks he'll send you a roger stone. >> are those bringing in a lot t of money? a lot of funds? >> it's hard to sell that many stones. but it gives you some idea of sort of how roger operates. i mean, you know, and, you know,
i hope i don't get in trouble for saying this, but, you know, there is a likeable rogue aspect to roger stone. >> we got to good to break here, they're going to cut my head off if i ask you one more question. but i am bog to sneak one last question in. >> give us all a stone. >> will supporters look through this and say, okay, seven counts here but he's not charged with collusion or conspiracy? is that argument available here? >> yes, actually. i think people will say this is yet another -- this is a term i just heard process crime, that it is -- it is lying to mueller but it is not the underlying offense of colluding with russia. now, you're not in great shape if you are parsing the kinds of crimes with which people in your campaign are charged with. but, you know, i do think it is true that this is all under the rubric of obstruction rather than the underlying substantive
crime. but, what he's lying about may be the underlying crime. >> sure. >> that's what we're going to have to zble have to learn. >> people often get in trouble for the cover-up. >> so they say. >> mega panel, thank you all very much for helping us sort through all of this breaking news. >> again, we saw it happen, the video exclusive to cnn moments here just after 6:00 a.m. roger stone, the president's political confidant arrested by the fbi. what it means for the mueller investigation when we return. [ pounding on door ]. >> fbi, open the door. ith botox. what if you had fewer headaches and migraines a month? botox® prevents headaches and migraines before they even start. botox® is for adults with chronic migraine, 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting 4 hours or more. botox® injections take about 15 mins. in your doctor's office and are covered by most insurance.
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. >> announcer: this is cnn breaking news. we do have breaking news. this is the cnn exclusive video of roger stone being arrested by the fbi this morning. these are fbi agents. you can see them in protective gear approaching in the cover of darkness roger stone's door. that is roger stone that you can see through the door as the agents pounded on his door and said, fbi, warrant.
they arrested roger stone. he has been indicted by robert mueller's team on seven counts. and this was the scene that our cnn cameras captured exclusively as they approached his door at his home before sunrise this morning. joining us now is cnn producer david, he was on the scene when this happened in flawed flood. tell us everything that transpired this morning. >> reporter: alsiisyn, an extraordinary morning. we were here at 5:00 a.m. waiting for whatever was going to happen. 6:00 a.m., just after the hour, about a half dozen police vehicles with sirens but no sounds, they pull into in front of this fort lauderdale home where roger stone was presumably asleep. the lights were off in the house. about a dozen officers, fbi acts wearing tactical vests and with large weapons fanned out across his front lawn. one went up to the house and rapped on the door, shined a
flashlight inside and said fbi, open the door. moments later as you heard in the video, it said fbi, warrant. that's what the agent said. we then saw a light go on the second floor and moments later there was roger stone in the doorway. that was our video exclusively you saw shot by gill. an extraordinary arrest here in fort lauderdale this morning. >> what was roger stone's reaction? did you watch them take him into custody. >> reporter: we were being moved away as it was happening. we were trying to bring you as much as we could as it was happening. we saw roger stone come to the door obscured by an fbi agent. he was not wearing his usual attire, which is, as we know, these fancy suits, he was in sleep wear. he had his grasses on and he said i'm roger stone and then we saw him remove them before they took him into custody. many lights, heavy weaponry, they were taking him away for what we know is a pretty hefty
indictment. >> could you hear roger stone saying anything? was there any kinds of conversations? >> reporter: they asked him are you roger stone and he said yes. that was the extent of the conversation that we were able to hear from our perch before we were moved. but it was friendly. as you know, some of these warrants, they don't always go smoothly. this went smoothly. the fbi agents and if out across his line silently before they shined that flashlight in and then shouted fbi, open the door. roger appeared to surrender without any issue. >> when the fbi takes this approach, it's because they think there's a possibility of the arrest not going smoothly. i mean, that's why they take all of those precautions. but what's so fascinating is that we've talked to his attorney, the attorney didn't know this was coming. clearly roger stone didn't know this was coming. you were staked out at his house, you didn't know that this
was coming. why were you there in position? >> reporter: alisyn, it's a reporter reporter's instinct. there was some unusual grand jury testimony in washington yesterday. robert mueller's grand jury typically meets on fridays. yesterday, thursday, there was grand jury activity. we also had some other signs that maybe something was going on this angle, the roger stone angle. so we showed up at his house this morning. we were the only ones there and low and behold the fbi agents did come and arrest him. i'll make a note when paul manafort, president trump's former campaign director was arrested, he sur rememberedered at an fbi field nauoffice in washington. he walked in the door around 8:00 a.m. or 9:00 a.m. i was there for that surrender. this, very different. >> absolutely. this is remarkable. what we're watching on the other side of our screen there is remarkable to see how roger stone was take mean it custody this morning after being
indicted on these seven counts. when the fbi yelled, the audio that you caught on the microphones where they say fbi, open the door, then the next thing they say -- i'll play if for you and then ask you a question about it. listen to this audio. [ pounding on door ]. >> fbi, open the door. [pounding on door ]. >> fbi, warrant. >> the second thing they say is fbi, warrant. do ju have any sense on whether or not that was an arrest warrant or a search warrant and whether or not they are now inside his home searching for thin things? >> reporter: yeah, you can see behind me that's the block where it happened. there's a minimal police presence. when we were first here this morning there were maybe about a half dozen police vehicles that were here for that. we believe it must have been an arrest warrant because he was take mean it custody shortly
after you heard that fbi act say warrant. now, it's unclear to us if they're still there. there's some indications that maybe the law enforcement is not at his house right now, as just by the fact that we're not seeing flashing lights. but we're obviously now about 100 yards up the street, they moved us back literally in the middle of that arrest. so we're not able to see what's going on in that house right now, but i can tell you that the law enforcement operation here has scaled down immensely. we know roger stone is not here anymore. he was taken away maybe about a half hour after that arrest. and now we know there is a court appearance later this morning where we'll be at least. >> david, that looks like an awfully nice neighborhood. i'm sure they are not used to fbi agents in flap jackets showing up just before 6:00 a.m. in the darkness and taking people away from that lovely residential area behind you. >> reporter: yeah, that's for sure. there's a lot of bikers, joggers, walkers, even as early as 5:00 a.m., 6:00 a.m. people
are out walking down -- there's an intracoastal waterway, nice boats, it's i very nice neighborhood and roger stone had a beautiful house and this is something that the neighbors are not used to. that's what multiple neighbors have been telling me as we've been here on their sidewalk reporting this news all morning. >> well, david, your reporter's instincts were right on this morning. you were in the right place at the right time to bring us the exclusive video of roger stone being arrested on seven indictments from robert mueller's team. we'll come back to you throughout the morning. when you get any sort of information. thank you very much for being right there. >> reporter: thanks, alisyn. >> just such a remarkable sight, those images, the fbi showing ust just after 6:00 a.m. roger stone in custody, as you said, arrested on seven counts. wow. let's talk much more about this. joining me is democratic congresswoman neil lowey of new york, he's the chair of the
house appropriations committee. madam chairwoman, you're the first elected official we've had a chance to speak to. we've been looking at these remarkable pictures all morning of the president's one-time political adviser roger stone being take mean it custody, now charged in the mueller investigation with one count of obstruction, five counts of false statements and one count of witness tampering. what's your reaction to what you're seeing here? >> remarkable is the word. another close confidant of president trump being arrested. this just points, to me, the importance of the mueller investigation. it must continue and we must continue the investigations in the house of representatives and in the senate. jerry nadler, congressman cummings are all doing an essential job. and certainly adam schiff has been right on top of all of this information. it is a sad day for the united
states of america that the president's allies have, shall we say, been charged with interfering with the election and all the other counts. >> well, he isn't being charged with that, which is interesting. he's being charged with obstruction of justice, with obstructing the investigation, lying with the investigators in the senate about this, and he's been charged with witness tampering. but there are no charges here accusing him of colluding with the russians. there's no accusation of breaking a law by contacting wikileaks. is that significant? >> i certainly think it is. however, the investigations will continue. the mueller investigation will continue. and the connection of roger stone with this president and his activities during the election i'm certainly -- i look forward to hearing the results of the investigation. >> and if we could put the
picture up one more time of the arrest of this morning, will transition to the other issue this morning this that is the issue of the day, these fbi agents make the arrest of roger stone this morning, like every other fbi acgent, they're not being paid right now. they begin missing their second paycheck this week. it's the longest shutdown in u.s. history. the senate failed to pass two measures yesterday to end this shutdown. what is going to happen today? what should happen in terms of democratic outreach? >> it's 35 days that the government has been shut down. there is no excuse for the president to shut down the government. we must open the government and then negotiates can continue. but we cannot keep the government closed. this is irresponsible. in fact, i would even say it's outrageous. we can negotiate as an appropriator i've been
negotiating with republicans for my whole career. but we must open the government, we must pay the federal employees, and then we can continue actions to deal with how do we respond most effectively with border security. >> we understand that house democrats will unveil some kind of proposal today that will include more money, much more money than previously offered for border security, but no funding for new barriers. is that correct? >> there are several parts of the offer that we have been considering. border security, all kinds of border security. now, by the way, most of the drugs that are coming in to the united states come through the port of entry and sensors, radars, all kinds of technical equipment are essential. so we are going to unveil a proposal, but we've been negotiating for a long time. and there's no response from this administration other than closing the government. and we cannot have a serious
discussion unless the government is open. >> representative nita lowey, the chair of the appropriations committee, thanks so much for being with us this morning. >> thank you very much. >> joining us now is michael smerconish and cnn political commentator. i assume you've had the chance to see the exclusive cnn video this morning of roger stone being arrested before sunrise this morning at his home in florida. he was indicted by robert mueller's team on seven counts. your thoughts. >> so like everybody else, i've been pouring over and marking up the document. it's not good news for roger stone, obviously. but, as you've pointed out, we're talking about obstruction, false statements, and witness tampering. what we're not talking about is conspiracy or, as i'm sure the president will be saying later today, it's not collusion. but here's the important thing. nothing prevents special counsel robert mueller from charging in
succession. and by that i mean this is not necessarily the total game against roger stone. this may only be the opening chapter. the second observation that i have is that roger stone famously said i have actually communicated with julian assang and i wondered in this document, because roger then backed off of those statements, i've wondered if in this document there would be any direct link between assange and stone? i'm not seeing one. i've read it twice, i don't think there's anything in here. it seems like it's all through intermediaries. the third observation is i asked roger stone on cnn on november 3rd do you anticipate being indicted? and in giving me a long-winded explanation, what he said is i'm guilty of hyping, punking, posturing, promoting and bluffing. what he was saying is, i'm a bs artist and what i was doing is taking information in the public domain and spinning it as if i
were on the inside. now, when i read this document, what i also note is he was not a passive actor. it was not him sitting back with the search engine and looking at google. he was very actively working those two individuals identified in the indictment for anything they had, but he doesn't seem to have been in direct contact with wikileaks himself. >> you lay out i think very astutely what is not in here and what could still be to come. but there are some new things in here, including direct references to the trump campaign. let me just read you this paragraph that jump out to us. after july 22nd, 2016 release of the stolen dnc e-mails by organization one, that's wikileaks, a senior trump campaign official was directed to contact stone about any additional releases and what other damaging information organization one had regarding the clinton campaign. stone thereafter told the trump campaign about potential future releases of damaging material by organization one. he was directeding to contact
stone, a senior trump campaign official. this is the first direct link between the trump campaign and roger stone about wikileaks. the trump campaign wants wikileaks information. >> you're right and that's why my first point wads os one of ng that nothing in this prevents mueller from coming back with more substantive charges against stone and whomever that may have been. because, remember, at the crux here what we really want to know is was there an aiding and abetting of an illegal act? in this case the hack of the dnc server by foreign interests, the russians. we still don't know the answer to that question. >> yeah, he may not have made direct contact with julian assange or wikileaks, but he wanted to. you can see how interested roger stone is in working through intermediaries and whatever information wikileaks has.
he is quite active in terms of trying to make end roads. and so i hear what you're saying, this is not like, okay, well case closed. but as we often know it's the cover-up and not the crime and you still do time. >> you know, you're right, alisyn. and i think that there's a tendency on all of our part to want the final chapter. this is not the final chapter. this raises as many questions as it answers. >> i also say, michael, you said something interesting. all we want to know is if a law was broken here. but i'm not sure that that's the limit, right? when mike pompeo, the secretary of state is calling wikileaks a non-state hostile intelligence service in contact and in the service of russia, i do think there is a public interest in knowing how willing the trump campaign was to work with this non-state hostile actor during the campaign. even if it's not directly against the law, even if there wasn't a statute violated, is it
in the public interest? >> think we know the answer to that question, and that is that they were very eager to glean from wikileaks, frankly from whatever source they could possibly obtain any and all information that was going to benefit the campaign. one other observation, if i may, about roger stone because i've known him for years and i've interviewed him on many, many occasions. the only thing worse for roger than being indicted is not being indicted. as odd as that sounds, he loves being in the eye of the storm. i'm sure it's not a pleasant experience to hear that are knock on his door, but there's some kind of a perverse thrill that he gets about being the focus of all of our attention. >> yes, relevance at any cost, even if it means being on national tv in your pajamas, as he was this morning. >> correct. >> very good. >> like i say, michael, we love speaking to you. you have ice water in your veins. you so cooley and clearly looked through this. >> that is not zblu this broke an hour ago and we've been feverishly reading this and i can see you calmly you're
reading line by line, it's all marked up. we're so lucky to have you on this morning. thank you very, very much. >> thank you. >> you can watch smerconish saturday 9:00 a.m. eastern, 6:00 p.m. pacific. he's got 24 more hours go through this you better watch to find out how he thinks things are going. they're feeling the impact of the government shutdown. they today will miss a second paycheck. up next we'll check in with two federal workers who you will remember from being on new day and their dire stories then. how are they doing two weeks later? i'm ken jacobus and i switched to the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy. and last year, i earned $36,000 in cash back. which i used to offer health insurance to my employees. what's in your wallet?
major breaking news this morning. exclusive cnn footage here as the political adviser to president trump, roger stone, is arrested by the fbi at his fort lauderdale, florida, home. he will be in court later this morning. he is going to be charged on seven counts, one count of obstruction, five counts of making false statements, and one count of witness tampering. we are all over the erratic developments in this story. >> squlon, meanwhile of course our other big story is the shutdown.
800,000 federal workers are not being paid. today they will miss their second paycheck. this month we have spoken to many americans who are doing whatever it takes to make ends meet, including these. >> digging out of savings to basically try to cover expenses like registration fees for college tuition. you know, it's very concerning to know that, hey, i'm not getting paid and any other expenses is becoming a problem for us. >> i just hope that it doesn't drag on for much longer to where we will have to start selling . >> let's get an update from those federal workers you met on "new day." eric young, a corrections officer working without pay, the national president of the american federation of government employees union. lisa honin, an ep, program support assistant who is currently furloughed. we wanted to check in with you
now that you are missing your second paycheck. what's happening in your lives now? lisa, we heard there you said things were bad. you have a 1-year-old, a 5-year-old. you were having a hard time getting unemployment assistance and worried about selling your family heirlooms. what's happened since then? >> i was finally able to get everything going with unemployment. i just got paid yesterday for one week. my husband's unemployment kicked in as well. so we have been able to hang in there. we are fortunate to have family and friends that were able to help out. now with the two of us getting unemployment and help from family everything is going okay for now. our biggest concern is the unemployment is only a temporary fix. any time it sounds like there is something that's going to go well in congress it doesn't work out.
our concern now is hopefully the shutdown will end before our unemployment benefits end. once that happens, i'm not sure. >> of course. no one wants to have to rely on unemployment. both you and your husband are furloughed with your young kids. eric, when we talked to you, you said things were getting worse in prisons. there was more agitation. people were getting depressed. you felt even the prisoners were sensing that things were bad. give us an update. >> well, as i indicated, the situation that i described at the last interview that we did have a hunger strike at our metropolitan correctional center in new york. the inmates were upset that staff weren't reporting to work which has become a trending problem for the bureau. some of the staff are sleeping in their vehicles. that's been reported at one of our facilities in california.
also we have some administration officials actually placing cots for employees to sleep on at the property. the situation has become very tenuous. a great majority of our people commute to and from work great distances. so the agency has set up sleep stations so that they can stay at the property. >> eric, what is your current mood? i know you were getting distr s distressed when we last talked to you. >> i'm the national president. i hear from 105 locals often, at least 15 to 20 stories a day. when i hear the horror stories of some of the staff incapable of buying basic necessities to put food on the table, buy medication, all deductibles reset since january 1. so people can't buy insulin to make sure they are safe to come to work. those things right there concern me. i hear a lot and have seen
stories about sick children and people aren't able to take off from work because under the threat of being placed in an absent without leave status and disciplined as a result of not showing up for work. with the recent opium guidance that threatened the staff that agencies can discipline them as a result of not showing up for work. it's been a very big concern for people. they have legitimate reasons for not coming to work, not having the resources to pay for child care, not having the resources to pay to and from commuting costs to work. it's a big deal. >> the commerce secretary wilbur ross had a suggestion for furloughed workers. he wasn't quite sure what the problem was with being able to find food. why don't you all just take out interest-bearing loans? here are his thoughts. >> mr. secretary, there are reports that there are some federal workers going to homeless shelters to get food.
>> well, i know they are, and i don't really quite understand why because as i mentioned before the obligations that they would undertake, say borrowing from a bank or a credit union are in effect federally guaranteed. so the 30 days of pay some people will be out, there is no real reason they shouldn't be able to get a loan against it. >> secretary ross thinks you should get a bank loan, lisa. >> what bank is going to give you money if you can't show proof of income? >> that's an excellent question that i'm not sure the commerce secretary has exactly thought through. eric, what do you think about his suggestion to the people you hear from? they should just go get bank loans. >> i heard quite a few who yor stories, as i indicated. one of our colleagues stated he didn't have but $80 left on his
credit card to possibly get him another week's commute to and from work. couldn't even put food on his table. the only part of wilbur ross' statement i agree with is "i don't understand." i don't understand how 33,000 law enforcement officers around the country are working full time putting their lives on the line and have to stand in bread lines and beg for help when they are working on behalf of the american people protecting this country. to have people like that make those crass statements shows exactly how out of touch this administration is. >> eric young, lisa honan, we appreciate the update. obviously we'll stay in touch with you as we see what happens today and beyond with the shutdown. thank you so much. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> "new day" will be back. (vo) we're carvana,
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>> announcer: this is cnn breaking news. good morning. welcome to our viewers in the united states and around the world. this is "new day." it's friday, january 25th, 8:00 in the east. we have major breaking news. long-time associate of donald trump roger stone, his long-time friend and political adviser was just arrested. arrested at dawn by fbi agents,
brought up on charges by special counsel robert mueller. our cameras were there for the fbi raid at 6:00 or so this morning. they knocked on the door. they went in and took him into custody. listen to it all take place. [ banging ] >> fbi, open the door. fbi. >> roger stone was then taken into custody. the indictment said stone sought stolen e-mails from wikileaks to damage donald trump's opponents at the direction of, quote, a senior trump campaign official. let's get to sarah murray with the breaking details. what's the big headline from that very dramatic rude awakening roger stone got before dawn this