tv Cuomo Prime Time CNN February 5, 2019 9:00pm-10:00pm PST
that was a great moment. >> it was a great moment. >> he'll get a bump off of this. we'll see how long. >> thank you all. great discussion tonight. a special edition of "cuomo primetime" starts right now. thank you, anderson. hello, everyone, i'm chris cuomo, welcome to a special super sized edition of "primetime." we have two hours tonight, president trump has delivered his state of the union to a deeply divided congress. they said it was about uniting tonight. did he succeed? did he change any minds? and what happens after tonight? he'll probably get a bump. that's not unusual. how long will it last? especially with the fact that we may be steamrolling towards another government shutdown. there are multiple probes under way that could put his
presidency in peril. and we have brand-new developments to tell you about. and has the "washington post" dug up new evidence that could shake up the presidential hopes of elizabeth warren? midnight on capitol hill. it can't get any better than that. let's get after it. unity, that's what it was supposed to be about tonight. unifying. but you could feel the deep divide in the chamber as the president delivered his annual state of the union address on the heels of one shutdown, on the verge of another. it was literally a divided room, even by costume. all of the women on the democratic side in white. obviously making a statement. and you saw the scene right now, when the president was saying we
have more women in congress than ever before. he said you should be happy, and they started applauding themselves, all on this side. over his shoulder, another woman in white, the new speaker who was there. sometimes speaking under her breath in contradiction of the president. i don't know who she was talking to, because mike pence wasn't an active conversationalist for her tonight. but here's what the president said. >> an economic miracle is taking place in the united states. and the only thing that can stop it are foolish wars, politics, or ridiculous partisan investigations. if there's going to be peace and legislation, there cannot be war and investigation.
>> if it does not fit, you must acquit. if it rhymes, it must be reasonab reasonable. echoes of president nixon, although i was quoting johnny cochran. and we remember the state of the union speech in 1974. and we have andrew gillum, good to see you, sir. >> good to see you, chris. i hope you're well. >> do you think that the president of the united states deserves any love for the state of the union? >> i tell you, we could not have seen two more different speeches this evening. stacey abrams, who brought the democratic response this evening, was hopeful, inspiring.
she set a vision, not by shying away from difficult issues like gun violence, she spoke about race and climate change. and also gave us a really, i thought, insightful glimpse into her own childhood. i could see, literally, her father, freezing cold without his jacket, having given it to a homeless person. >> what a story. >> but she ushered forward a story that didn't just include him and she and her mother, but also the country. she basically said that her father was willing to give away that jacket because he knew his wife and his family was coming. and she extended that to the entire nation, to say that america is coming. we'll have each other's backs. and compare that to what i thought was divisive rhetoric many times throughout the president's address. yes, it was sprinkled with a few
moments of obviously unity. but by and large, i found it to be a divisive speech. >> what was interesting tonight, while there were very different approaches, you're right about that. clearly the audience was largely the same. the battle for your party is to capture the working people in the heartland of america. a lot of the red parts of america, and let them know you care about them as well. for the president, his big-ticket issue is not economics, it's immigration. let's listen to him on that. >> yeah. >> as we speak, large, organized caravans are on the march to the united states. i have ordered another 3,750 troops to our southern border to
prepare for this tremendous onslaught. this is a moral issue. i want people to come into our country in the largest numbers ever. but they have to come in legally. >> look, you'll see a ton of fact checks about the last part of that statement. where his administration, and those around it, have proposed a lot of reductions to legal immigration. so him saying he wants more than ever, he's got a fact problem with that. but let's get to the main part of the message, which is, the left wants you to be exposed to the dangers of the brown menace, as i call his depiction. the migrants coming from mexico and the triangle countries. i'm sending the military to keep you safe. what's your counter? >> no democrat would agree that we don't want border security.
we've said as much, and it's been in every package proposed, but we don't buy into the mythology, this fearful image, to contrast the speech from the democrats tonight and the president, the truth is that migration at the border is at a practical 20-year low. this whole idea of people coming in droves across the border. the truth is, the majority of drugs coming into the country are through legal border crossings. fentanyl is coming from asia in containers. but the government was shut down for more than 30 days. >> stacey abrams hit on that tonight. >> she did hit on that tonight. rightly so. >> and let me ask you one question deeper on this. >> yeah. >> okay. you're right. the flow, we've seen subsiding of it. the caravans are new.
and they are a complex issue. there are lots of different reasons that people are organizing this way. that's new, and there are good and bad reasons for it. you could argue they're all bad reasons, but there are reasons from our system. but the democrats now all use the phrase border security. you never use the words physical borders anymore. even though democrats have always funded them. under obama, the first two deals that you offered trump had physical barrier funding in it. now, i can't get any democrats to say, yeah, he will get money for the fence, just not as much as i want. tom perez said, there are other ways to do it. we're not giving him money for that. are you sure that's not a mistake, you're not handing him an issue to go back to his base and say, they won't give any a
dollar for any more physical barriers. they don't want to keep you safe. are you handing him a hammer to hit you with? >> the president is off the path here. although he uses this to incite his base, democrats talk about smart security, smart power being leveraged here in the country. the president is attempting to rile up his base. but i have to tell you, didn't the president just have to lay off, what, 15 employees who were undocumented? >> 18 at 5 different golf clubs. he was one of the people hiring undocumented workers. he's part of the problem. >> he's talked about the biggest threat to american businesses and to small businesses, being undocumented people crossing the border in droves.
yet, you see that the president is quite frankly only out for himself in this, and has no real enforceable solutions as to how to get the border under control. the truth is, there are 20 million undocumented people in this country. we deserve comprehensive immigration reform coming from the congress, the senate, and the president. this is not what we're being offered. this is fear mongering, dog whistling, attempting to rile up his base, but that isn't presidential leadership. and that's what we're looking for in 2020. again, to contrast what we saw from stacey abrams and what we saw from the president, i think, was a perfect setup for what 2020 and this presidential race will likely be about. it will be a vision of hope, of aspirational goals for the american people that we can get
there together. versus fear, be afraid of brown people who look different from you. and all the way, trying to win for himself and not the american people. the country will see a real difference between what democrats are offering and quite frankly the vitriol and hatred being pandered by this president. >> andrew, well argued, and thank you. >> thank you for having me. >> absolutely. like you heard earlier, it will not be unusual to see the president get a bump in the polls after the state of the union. but what does he do with this? the president does not have money for his wall. there's none on the table. we can debate whether or not it's a good play for the democrats. but will he declare a national emergency or a shutdown again?
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retribution. >> then made it clear he's still digging in on his demand for a border wall, even as another shutdown looms. >> in the past, most of the people in this room voted for a wall. but the proper wall never got built. i will get it built. >> so, new term. true-ish. it is true that the democrats and republicans have voted for physical barriers time and time again. but a proper wall never got built. what does that mean? i would suggest, nothing. but david gergen, s.e. cupp, chris cillizza, thanks for being with us at this hour. david, let's get our head straight. true-ish, democrats have never been strangers to border security or physical barriers. n it's always been bollard
fencing. but i feel like that's changing now. am i right or wrong? >> there seems to be some shift for democrats away from fencing. going to smart technology, working at entry points and the like. but i think the democrat party shouldn't abandon the notion that more fencing, the kind that went up under barack obama, is still today. if they end up getting the blame for this, that is one of the stupidest things going on in american politics. >> are you hearing it that way, that the, we'll give you something, we gave you $45 billion, are you perceiving a shift to no money? >> there's two parts of this. democrats have no incentive to do anything that trump asks right now. they're a month into newly
taking control of the house, largely elected to deny the president some of his key promises. but then there's how voters will come to see this. and that's not revealed yet. that will take a little time. will they come to see democrats at petulant, or rejecting concepts they once adopted just because it's trump? then you'll see a shift in polling. right now the polling is with democrats, but it's not locked in. >> the whole speech, i think, was carrot and stick, but it was jumbled together. i want to work with democrat, on the other hand, they're immoral and want open borders. there's opportunities for us to work together on prescription
drugs, also they're terrible and they're working against the american public. when i was looking through the speech, this line gets to that. this is trump. simply put, walls work and walls save lives. we've heard that from him before. base likes that. let's work together, compromise, and reach a deal that will make america safe. if you take the first part, walls work, if you only take the second part, compromise and reach a deal that makes america safe, everyone in the room is applauding. this is the problem with donald trump, he's saying two things that don't work together. >> we're talking about the numbers, the majority of country says that they don't want the wall as described by the president of the united states. i don't see polling on, do you
think there should be any physical barriers on the border at all? and see what the response is to that question. i feel that will be higher, especially when you hear the men and woman in charge of keeping our country safe saying, we do need more. >> exactly. and the democratic party has stood for doing it smarter and at the entry points, and doing it with barriers. why would they depart from it now? he's painted himself into another corner, if they don't blow this thing, the democrats have got him in a place, he will go to emergency, which he never mep mentioned tonight, which was striking. or he'll have to go to another shutdown. >> let's say the number is 5, whatever. and they will give him what was
in the money they gave him last year. and he says no. i'm going national emergency. s.e., the lawyers tell me, i can do it. i don't believe that, but let's say he does it. then what? >> republicans will take issue with that. they've been fairly out front on not wanting the national emergency. >> you say that holds when he actually does it? >> i think so, a lot of republicans, maybe not the majority, but enough to make it look like the president was going alone on this. but the other problem is, i don't think the issue between democrats and trump and republicans is the number. i think it's the definition of the wall. trump has already reportedly said i would do something with a 2 in front of it, or would consider something with a 3 in front of it. >> you can call it what you want. >> i think it will come down to,
what we decide to call this thing. >> but he's so -- the thing that i think is very difficult, he's so wildly unpredictable. again, he said two weeks ago, call it what you want. you can call it peaches for all i care. then suddenly -- >> you know that's not true. >> but then suddenly, a wall is a wall. build the wall and crime will fall. >> he went bad on his own initial promise. it will be concrete, reinforced, rebar. then he said it's not going to be a simple concrete wall, it will be transparent. >> you're negotiating with, like, a blob. that's the challenge. you try to seize it, and it goes somewhere else. >> let's say he goes national emergency. even if the legal hurdles go away, there's a practical one of, whom do you take the money from, and how do you win that
argument? >> i think he will have a major split in the republican party. he wants this issue behind him. he wants to move on. the democrats will benefit from getting it behind them. they have a lot of points on the board, they ought to shut this down. what they do not want is in two weeks, people say, both sides are being too stubborn here. >> shut down the government in nine days, is it a practical impossibility? neither side can let that happen? be bold, cillizza. >> i feel like it's after midnight, i can go full voice. really let it rip. i'm not even on a microphone. >> wake everybody up. >> no, they can't. politically speaking, it makes no sense to shut the government down again. but donald trump is donald trump. so, i mean, i'm hesitant to say
100%, no. >> it's mcconnell who would have to do it again. >> trump says, do you want a national emergency or shut the government down, i guess mcconnell would take national emergency? but that's a rock and a hard place. >> going too bold, cillizza. >> but the reason he doesn't want that is because, broadly speaking, what you're doing with the national emergency, saying that's okay, you're saying, technically we were the ones who are supposed to approve the money, but now we're going to hand that over to an executive. the precedent you set is very dangerous. >> let me take a break. please stay with me. we have another round of conversation in the next hour, there are new angles developing.
we heard the president take a direct shot at something tonight, socialism. okay? this wasn't a mistake or throwaway line. this was a prepared speech. he obviously sees this as a good angle of attack for 2020. who is it aimed at? who does it benefit? great debate, next. look at those two. our big idaho potato truck is out there somewhere and we're going to find it. awe man. always look for the grown in idaho seal. with its historical records... ancestry's dna test ...you could learn you're from ireland... ...donegal, ireland... ...and your ancestor was a fisherman. with blue eyes. just like you. begin your journey at ancestry.com.
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all right. it wasn't all unity tonight at the state of the union. the president took aim at the democratic party's leftward swing. >> here in the united states, we're alarmed by the new calls to adopt socialism in our country. tonight, we renew our resolve that america will never be a socialist country. >> mike pence stands up, nancy pelosi stays down. are the ideas of, let's say,
ocasio-cortez, really, bernie sanders, the new face of the democratic party? are there renewed calls for socialism coming from your party? >> no, i think it's absolutely absurd. i think you have a wing of the party, the aocs and the bernie sanders, and their voices are becoming loud. they're talking about taking care of working class citizens. but when you look at the response tonight, there was nothing socialistic about stacey abrams' response. stacey abrams talking about making sure that individuals were taken care of from their cradle to their career. compassionate immigration reform, making sure we have a livable wage, and eradicating racism. if that's socialism, sign me up.
but it's not socialism. >> remember, politics about persuasion. labels matter. >> before we go there, let me be extremely clear. stacey abrams talked about taking care of individuals from the cradle to the career. that's not socialism, that's what america should be. >> stacey abrams says she's for medicare for all as a starting point. single payer, medicare for all, is a starting point. if that's not socialism. you have kamala harris saying -- >> her name is kamala.
>> sorry. kamala saying we'll eliminate whole segments of the health care system. >> she pulled back from that. >> but, chris, people will run back from that. listen, it's not like -- >> is social security socialism? >> we're talking about something completely different. don't get off the topic. single payer, medicare for all, is a socialism form of government. yes, it is. >> my question to you, david, as we move forward, a lot of these ideas are not new. the fact is, people pay into social security. >> i'm not talking about social security. stay on the topic. stay down the middle here. it's not the same. it's not the same. >> don't talk over each other. one point at a time. >> they are the same type of program. but what democrats are talking about, when you talk about increasing the tax rate, going
to a 70% marginal tax rate, none of these things are actually new. when you talk about what fdr did for this country, how he took us out of a great depression, these are not new ideas. he's talking about taking care of people. >> what is new, a government-run health care system. that's completely new. >> what's the offensive part of it? >> it's just not part of the capitalist system. who is paying for it? let's be fair. it's a trillion-dollar, $1 trillion shortfall each other. that's what the cbo estimated. >> let's just be clear about it. but let's not dive too deep into the numbers because they will confuse everybody. there are transition costs associated with changing
systems. $1 trillion is a shy estimate. then there's a leveling. and let's make it simple for the audience. he's making an interesting point. if you are going to have the argument about whether it's socialism or not, that's unproductive. but let's entertain it for a moment. when a business goes bankrupt, capitalism says, dave, your company fails, you lose. but we say, jobs matter. let's encourage industry, we will give you protection. it's not run by the private sector. it's entirely run by government. >> no, it's not. bankruptcy is not run by the government. you're a lawyer, you go to bankruptcy court in delaware. >> even to chris' point, i think what chris is talking about, and
the line he's going down is the corporate welfare we have in our country. >> we're talking about health care. >> i know, but i'm saying the principle is, sometimes you want government to do things. sometimes you want the private sector to do things. >> government should provide for defense, clean drinking water. >> corporal welfare. >> it's a fundamental difference. >> that's a clear difference. this is the difference between stacey abrams and donald trump. we're highlighting that difference. because we fundamentally believe that people deserve access to a quality education and first-class health care. guaranteed rights in this country. >> i do, too. >> but you don't if you want people to make decisions between
health care and heating their home. >> your solution is, government pays for it all. eliminate the private sector? >> no, that's not mine at all. even today, with individuals on medicare, they have to have some private supplemental insurance. >> that's not the starting point for the party. >> no, no, no. you're conflating it, because you want to make every democrat bernie sanders. but we're a big tent who wants to get to the point where right now, we have the affordable care act in the country, something republicans haven't been able to do, which is make sure 90% of americans have health care. you shouldn't go bankrupt if you have heart attack.
>> the starting point for all democrats who have announced they're running for president is medicare for all. not someplace to the right of that. >> they've all sponsored bills that do a wide variety of things. some democrats will say we want to have private insurance, a healthy market, get to medicare for all. and other democrats like me say we need to make sure we have a starting point. >> we're out of time. >> you're a very smart guy, that's why. >> we're out of time. but i'll make you a bet, dave, that at some point early on in the election in 2020, if the president runs, and i assume he will, he will say, i want health care coverage for all the people who don't have it right now. and someone like me is going to say, how are you going to do that? and he's going to say, we've got to figure out how to do it
through government. and then, i'm telling you -- >> he'll say mexico will pay for it. >> but the concept of coverage is going to wind up leading to a very constructive conversation. >> health care is obviously a huge issue. fueled the midterms and put a lot of folks in those seats tonight. >> let's be honest. it was mostly about the revulsion to the president and his methods that was a big catalyst for democrat turnout. >> health care is the biggest line item. >> that's true, david. >> it assumes people are arguing on policy and not personality. but i preeappreciate you both, at 1,000 o'clock in the morning. and there's something that
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time give to the congress information of the state of the union. so, let's hear how the speech is playing with hawaii democratic senator, mazie hirono. >> good evening. >> what was your take on the president's state of the union address? >> we've had a harsh reality of two years of the trump presid t presidency, starting with the muslim ban, sabotaging of the health care, and that's our reality of this presidency. i don't think that kind of reality is going to change. whatever he said tonight that was nice does not erase the reality of the harm that he's brought upon this country, and the chaos that he has wrought upon this country for the past two years.
>> do you believe the message that he wants to work with you guys on those problems, and sees a better future ahead? >> the first sign would be if he were to say something like, you folks bring me a bill that will keep government running until the end of the fiscal year, and i will sign it. i did not hear that. so, he says a lot of things, it's bad enough what he says. but the harm comes from the doing. and i've mentioned some of the things he's done. and this is a president who does not learn and can't change. so, whatever nice things he said tonight, i would be very, very pleasantly surprised if that actually happens. but he said some of the same things last year, infrastructure, lowering drug prices, even as he's very busy trying to eliminate health care for many in our country. >> i understand the past is
prologue with that you'll believe going forward. he said something that rhymed, so he must have really meant it. the point was, i'm not going to do anything with you if you keep investigating me. we can't have peace and legislation if there's war and investigation. that was not a subtle message. stop the probes or you're going to have problems. >> that is our job, by the way, the checks and balances. it is our job as members of congress to investigate where we see problems with the administration. i believe that there are all kinds of conflict of interest issues with this administration, and it is our job to focus on those kinds of issues. so, this is very typical of his approach. which is, if i don't get what i want, something bad will happen to you, or i'm not going to work
with you. >> do you think democrats should offer money for physical barriers in any deal? >> we've always supported border security. he's so totally fixated on a wall, he keeps coming back to that. i think that's his mantra, and as long as he keeps talking about a wall, maybe the border security that could be in a bill that will be brought before him and the house and senate, he can call it peaches or whatever he wants to call it. and if that makes him and his base happy, fine. but he didn't say there can't be another government shutdown, and that's because he's still contemplating it. >> do you think democrat offers should include money for physical barriers? >> we already have physical barriers.
so, this whole argument that the democrats are not for border security, that's b.s. and nonsense. he's said many times, i was there when hef was talking abou daca, bring me a bipartisan bill, i'll sign it. then it was off the table. he says something, and doesn't keep his word. so i say congress should do our job, investigate where investigation is warranted. pass a bill that will keep government running until the end of the physical year, at least without the president's consent. because that is our job. if he doesn't like it, veto the bill or let it become law without his signature. as he does his state of the state, trying to talk about how we should be working together, while he's been one of the most divisive people in the country,
certainly in my time, in my experience with presidents, he's been the most divisive. for him to start talking about how we're all going to work together, it really rings hollow to me. >> thank you so much. i have one question, within your own party, senator elizabeth warren has been battling this political perception about how she's handled her ethnicity and her race. you know what i'm talking about. now there's a new example of the senator, back in the '80s, 1986, listing native american as her nationality for the purpose of registration within the texas bar. do you believe that this issue is going to wind up being too much for her to carry if they were to be the nominee of your party? is this too big a deal? >> i don't think so.
she's talking about a lot of other things that are really important to people in our country, such as the massive income disparity in our country. or the fact that education is so unaffordable. i hope that's what people are focusing on, and also health care. but she's not the only one of our candidates who focuses on those things that matters to our people. >> true. but she is the only one that has given the president a big, rotten tomato to throw at her in what is guaranteed to be a food fight. we know that is what he will make the race, he hashe handed something that will hurt her. >> considering that he lies every single day, he's amoral, and an avowed sexual predator, that's rich coming from our president. >> senator, be well. take care.
>> you, too. bye. >> we know this president has a big problem with the truth. how did he do tonight? lucky for us, we have one of the best fact checkers around with the answers. next. moving? that's harder now because of psoriatic arthritis. but you're still moved by moments like this. don't let psoriatic arthritis take them away. taltz reduces joint pain and stiffness and helps stop the progression of joint damage. for people with moderate to severe psoriasis, 90% saw significant improvement. taltz even gives you a chance at completely clear skin. don't use if you're allergic to taltz. before starting, you should be checked for tuberculosis. taltz may increase risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. tell your doctor if you have an infection, symptoms, or received a vaccine or plan to.
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facts first. there's a lot to unpack in tonight's speech. dig into this, sort out what is accurate, what is not. tom foreman is here to help us do that with the state of the union. how are you? >> i'm well. president loves to talk about immigration. does it as president and candidate. wasted no time. >> year after year, countless americans are murdered by criminal, illegal aliens. >> this is a claim he loves to make. here's the problem. study by libertarian kato institute about immigration in texas, immigrants here legally or illegally less likely than native-born americans. no increase in murder, rape,
robbery, aggravated assault. don't contribute to increase in drug overdose or dui deaths. engage in less crime than american or legal immigrant peers. this claim at very best, very misleading. beyond that told one of his favorite stories about a border city and a great big wall. >> the border city of el paso, texas, used to have extremely high rates of violent crime, one of the highest in the entire country. considered one of our nation's most dangerous cities. now immediately upon its building, with a powerful barrier in place, el paso is one of the safest cities in our country. >> go to el paso, you will see a
great big barrier. yeah, whopping violent crime problem will. peak of it before it fell, 30%. so what's wrong with this story? here's what's wrong. wall was built around here, and crime was going up around that time. bottom line is, this big fancy story may sound great to followers, people like to hear it but flat-out false. find out a lot more about things we checked out, chris, if you go to cnn.com for reality checks. >> thanks tom, want you back next hour. why sleep when you can give us more fact checking. thanks very much. >> see you. >> tom calls them false. my definition is he had to know or should have known. he had to know the numbers, had to know that story would be compelling but false. that's a lie.
not just false, a lie. you know the truth, you told us something else anyway, deceptive, a lie. much more ahead on special two-hour "cuomo primetime," have joe, something else, we'll tell you what happened tonight and developments on multiple investigations. stay with us. literally it was like you're getting 7, 9, 10, 15 leaves that are just popping up all over the place. yeah, it was amazing. just with a little bit of information, you can take leaps and bounds. it's an awesome experience. [cell phone rings] where are you? well the squirrels are back in the attic.
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was he able to reset the battle, willing to take part in the compromise he's calling for. state of the union. and criminal probes widening that could put the trump administration in pearil more than the mueller probe, seeking interviews with people from president's business. and could be a huge problem for elizabeth warren if hoping to make it out of the democratic scrum in 2020, we'll show it to you. big night, what do you say, let's get after it. president made first appearance tonight before the new congress with the power to keep his presidency in check. here's a slice of one of his pitches for unity. >> we must reject the