Skip to main content

tv   Erin Burnett Out Front  CNN  February 15, 2019 4:00pm-5:01pm PST

4:00 pm
this is typical putin. he manipulated that because putin had an interest in making it as difficult as the u.s. forces as possible to be ready for a crisis on the korean peninsula. >> thank you for that report. i am bring than keilar. erin burnett "out front" starts right now. "out front" next the special counsel's office interviews sarah sanders as new documents show mueller has evidence of roger stone's communications with wikileaks. president trump declaring a national emergency and dashing off to mar-a-lago for a nice long weekend. breaking news, five dead in a shooting in illinois. five officers dead and authorities still trying to understand why. let's go "out front." and good night, good evening. i'm erin burnett "out front" tonight. breaking news on the russia investigation. sarah sanders interviewed by the special counsel. we now know that the president's press secretary sat down with bob mueller's team late last
4:01 pm
year. according to sanders today, quote, the president urged me, like he has everyone in the administration, to fully cooperate with the special counsel. i was happy to voluntarily sit down with them. that's a pretty misleading thing to say because the truth is the white house did not want this interview to happen. cnn has learned white house lawyers would not immediately agree to grant sanders interview to the special counsel so they didn't even want to do it. so voluntarily, all right, even after she did speak to mueller sanders kept talking about the russia investigation publicly calling it a witch hunt. never, ever, ever once disclosing that she had been questioned in the investigation. >> certainly the president has voiced his unhappiness from the beginning that this has gone on, this ridiculous witch hunt for more than two years. >> roger stone last week, paul manafort, michael cohen, michael flynn. are you concerned, is the president concerned that as more and more of his associates, former aides are brought in to
4:02 pm
this investigation, are indicted, plead guilty in this investigation that his presidency is in danger? >> not at all. in fact, i think nothing can be further from the truth. the more that this goes on, the more and more we see that none of these things have anything to do with the president. >> wish hunt. nothing to do with the president. yet the person saying those things was a witness and she is the president of the you state's press secretary. at best misleading. she was called to an interview with team mueller. all of that before she said those things. she kept answering questions without disclosing that. that is really hard to understand. evan perez is out front in washington. evan, what could sanders know that could be of interest to the special counsel? >> well, i think she would know a lot about the public statements that are being made especially by the white house, especially by those made from the podium. look, i think we've seen in some of the court filings, certainly in the indictments and some of
4:03 pm
the court action from the special counsel that they've taken interest in public statements and whether or not public statements are being used, especially ones that are either false or misleading, whether they're being used to put out a narrative perhaps to guide other witness, whether to -- as a way to obstruct an investigation and to guide witnesses to lie and match their stories with the false or misleading story. again, that's something we've seen repeatedly from the special counsel. it appears to be one of the legal theories, erin, that has been guiding this investigation. if you're sarah sanders, you have made a lot of statements from the podium and some of them have been misleading, some of them have been false. how did those come about? those are the questions that the special counsel would have been very interested to find out. were you told by the president to say these things? if you notice, by the way, erin, over the course of the past year or so sarah sanders has changed the way she does her job at the podium. in the past she used to say categorically that something was
4:04 pm
or wasn't true. now she says the president says it's not true or the president says this. i think that's one indication that she's learning that perhaps she's got to be able to say where things are coming from and they're not coming from her. and i think, again, this tells us a lot about what this investigation has been looking at and this is part of the obstruction part of this case that the special counsel has been focusing on. >> obviously she was part of putting out those statements we got about -- you know, about the statement the president crafted on air force one about the meeting in trump tower. >> exactly. >> she was there. she was part of that. these are all crucial things perhaps on the list. >> exactly. >> evan, thank you. i want to go to the former assistant attorney and jewel la kayem and jim sciutto. also the author of the new book "the shadow war, inside russia and china's secret operations to undermine america." obviously very relevant
4:05 pm
expertise for this conversation. julia, how important could sarah sanders be to mueller's investigation? >> i think significantly important. look, she's in the room where it happens, right? let's just not deny this. she's in the room. they're having conversations about how they're going to present whatever bad news has happened that day. you know, she has gone, as we've heard, she's gone from sort of saying categorically this is true or this is not true to now invoking trump. when you think about the communication strategy, she is it. i want to say what's really interesting about this is sarah sanders had nothing to do with the campaign, right? >> right. >> she's not really a part of the campaign. clearly mueller's interest in her actually has to do with when he's president. every time she says this has nothing to do with the white house or trump as president, that's actually she knows that's not true because she herself has been interviewed and she wasn't part of any of the shenanigans going on during the campaign. >> this is what is stunning,
4:06 pm
flight she didn't disclose it. now we know. she never disclosed it, even after she had been interviewed we just played her saying this has nothing to do with the president. this is all a witch hunt. maybe that's her personal opinion on the witch hunt. she knows it has to do with the president. she is his press secretary. >> it's a very tangled web. i would predict that her lawyer told her, don't talk about your interview. don't talk about what you said or what you were asked in public because that's what a good lawyer would tell their client in an investigation, but her very job involves talking to the public -- >> right. >> -- in the largest possible forum almost every day and so how can -- >> and maintaining their trust in the president and his presidency, which she has undermined. >> it seems to be a conflict in her role as press secretary or spokesman for the president. >> and, jim, you know, not only that, but as julia points out, she did not work for the president during the campaign. she works for him now.
4:07 pm
so this does open the door to what exactly mueller's asking about and the time frame. >> it does. i think for folks at home who are having some trouble, maybe some frustration following this long investigation, right? because you have two strands here. one is was there actual collusion, conspiracy between the trump campaign and russia with their exchange of information, et cetera. then the other line that we know is was there obstruction of justice? and under that umbrella is the question did this administration, did this president but also the people working for him, including the white house press secretary who has a very significant role in communicating to the american people, right, the position of this administration, were they intentionally misleading the american people and, therefore, members of congress and, therefore, the prosecutors in this investigation about the nature of those communications? and i think the fact that robert mueller -- because robert mueller does not waste his time with witnesses.
4:08 pm
the fact that he spoke to the white house press secretary indicates at least that he's interested in that line of investigation and it's a reasonable one. >> juliet, you know, when we talk about sarah sanders, we also of course know top white house aides have been interviewed by the special counsel in addition to sarah sanders, right? john kelly, former chief of staff who picked sean spicer, senior communications advisors. all of them have been interviewed. there could be others that we are not aware of. what do you take away from that? >> i find this list fascinating because obviously some of them are from the campaign, some of them crossed over. these are the names we know, right? you and i watching tv getting to know the team, the campaign, the white house. these are the names we know because these are the ones trump has put before us. so the fact that they've all been called in is incredibly telling about how close mueller is to the oval office. there's one name i am going to say that i find absolutely
4:09 pm
incredible. we never hear about. that's kellyanne conway. she is the campaign manager and she's the senior advisor in the white house. her name is nowhere as if she weren't campaign manager through this. now she might have been interviewed, we don't know, but as these names percolate out, i keep thinking didn't she have a campaign manager at this stage? >> right. right. that's a good question. is that the next thing we find ot. harry, this also comes as we're getting a court filing tonight, here it is, six pages from the special counsel, prosecutors are saying for the first time directly that they have evidence that roger stone communicated with wikileaks, right? obviously pompeo, mike pompeo has said it's a brush with russian intelligence. they're putting his name in there, roger stone. >> this is very significant. this is the continued use by the special counsel of court filings to tell the story. we saw in the russian hacking indictment several months ago the reference to stone. then we saw the stone indictment
4:10 pm
which seemed implicitly to tie into the hacking indictment. now he says it out loud in this filing which is a fairly routine filing. it's a question whether this case should be assigned to the judge who also has the manafort case. she may not be viewed as a great judge for stone. stone wants it to be away from this judge. >> right. >> and filed this motion saying my case has nothing to do with the russian hacking indictment and mueller responded with great detail about why it's very, very connected to the hacking indictment. >> he certainly does. you know what, jim, prosecutors in the filing say that during the investigation of the russian hack of the democrats, right, when sort of all of this opened up and started, they say in here, quote, the government obtained and executed dozens of search warrants on various accounts used to facilitate, here's the crucial words, the transfer of stolen documents for release as well as to discuss the timing and promotion of their release. several of those search warrants were executed on accounts that contained stone's communications
4:11 pm
with gusifer 2.0 and organization 1. organization 1 is wikileaks and, jim, you know, in a sense this obviously could matter for collusion, right? the scope of the warrants just laid out there, right, the stealing of the information and the release of it could mean stone was communicating about stealing and releasing? >> it is. i was trying to bring it back to folks at home who are not following every single moment of this. this is a key question. did the trump campaign have foreknowledge of wikileak's release of stolen hillary clinton's e-mails, stolen by russia channelled through wikileaks? u.s. intelligence used wikileaks as the middleman to get the e-mails out to the public eye. if the trump campaign through stone knew they were coming and even more explosion civilly was stone communicating back to wikileaks and saying, listen, today would be a good day to release those e-mails because, for instance, this is the day that the "access hollywood" tape
4:12 pm
came out, right? key part of the investigation. that gets to the ultimate question of conspiracy with the trump campaign and russia. we don't know that to be the case. you know, the special counsel's investigation is a black box. we're reading these signals. they're like smoke signals coming from the black box. this is one of the smoke signals which could be ultimately significant. >> of course, remember, we know from the stone filing itself, senior trump campaign official was directed to contact stone to get more dirt from wikileaks, right? we still do not know who that senior trump campaign official, who directed trump to do that. you have these bread crumbs, smoke entrails where they lead obviously the crucial question in that sentence still so crucial. thanks to all of you and before we go, i want to remind everyone, jim's new book "the shadow war, inside china and russia's secret operations to undermine america." thank you, jim. very proud to talk about that. next, the president
4:13 pm
declaring a national emergency for his wall. why is he saying this? >> i didn't need to do this, but i'd rather do it much faster. >> plus, beto. beto o'rourke says a part of the wall should be ripped down. is he just taking trump's bait? and five people are dead in a mass shooting in illinois late today. we are on the ground as we try to understand exactly what is happening there. your manufacturing business.t of & so this won't happen. because you've made sure this sensor and this machine are integrated. & she can talk to him, & yes... atta, boy. some people assign genders to machines. and you can be sure you won't have any problems. except for the daily theft of your danish. not cool! at&t provides edge to edge intelligence. it can do so much for your business, the list goes on and on. that's the power of &. & this shipment will be delivered... don't you get the one of those travel sites? they tell you that, but when you book at, you get the price match guarantee.
4:14 pm
so if you find your room at a lower rate, hilton is like... we're gonna match that rate and give you an extra 25% off. what would travel sites do if you found a better price? that's not my problem, it's your problem. get outta here! whoa, i really felt that performance. it's just acting, i'm really good at it. book at and get the hilton price match guarantee. if you find a lower rate, we match it and give you 25% off that stay. so, i started with the stats regarding my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. like how humira has been prescribed to over 300,000 patients. and how many patients saw clear or almost clear skin in just 4 months - the kind of clearance that can last. humira targets and blocks a specific source of inflammation that contributes to symptoms. numbers are great. and seeing clearer skin is pretty awesome, too. that's what i call a body of proof. humira can lower your ability to fight infections. serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma,
4:15 pm
have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. want more proof? ask your dermatologist about humira. this is my body of proof. don't get mad. get e*trade, dawg.
4:16 pm
there are tasty snacks, and then, there are kind bars. made with ingredients you know and love - like whole nuts, real fruit and a drizzle of dark chocolate. do your taste buds and your body a favor. do the kind thing. feeling unsure? what if you had some help? introducing the new 2019 ford edge with the confidence of ford co-pilot360™ technology. the most available driver assist techonology in its class. the new 2019 ford edge
4:17 pm
breaking news. president trump just landing in florida as you see for a weekend get away to mar-a-lago flying air force one for hours after declaring a national emergency to get his wall, a national emergency that trump himself admitted he did not have to declare. >> i didn't need to do this, but i'd rather do it much faster. >> trump's move is not just angering democrats. here is a public voice of trump's base. an coulter responding. >> the only national emergency is that our president is an idiot. this is the worst open borders the country has ever had under the president who ran against open borders. >> caitlyn collins is "out front" at the white house. caitlyn, this move shockingly uniting the left and the right in opposition. >> reporter: yeah, republican lawmakers have warned the president for weeks not to declare a national emergency but he did so anyway because, frankly, erin, he felt he was out of options to get funding for that border wall. now the republicans fear he's
4:18 pm
not only going to undermine them and congress and they're worried there's a democratic president in congress that they will try to use a national emergency to advance their agenda. mark skoe rubio said we have a crisis at our southern border but no crisis justifies violating the constitution. mick mulvaney is making clear he believes they have the authority for the president to do this. clearly as you heard the president lay out in the rose garden today, they are ready to face an onslaught of legal challenges for this. >> "out front" now, the democratic congresswoman from new york, carolyn maloney. thank you very much for your time. so democrats and ann coulter. >> we're united on this. the only crisis is our president. it's not a national crisis or an emergency crisis at the border. you can't declare one when there isn't an emergency. it would set a very terrible
4:19 pm
precedent for other presidents. if he did this, i can tell you democratic presidents would be calling gun safety is an emergency and we should pass background checks and other steps to protect people. already several members of congress are filing bills in oppositi opposition. the judiciary would have jurisdiction on this. representative cassgrove, nancy pelosi is calling it unconstitutional. everyone is getting ready to go in court. the one thing he has accomplished, he's got everybody talking about his silly emergency statement instead of the mueller investigation and the gun violence that we just saw in illinois. >> illinois. >> and the issues that we ran on for congress of protecting pre-existing conditions in health care. lowering the cost of our prescription drugs. honesty in government.
4:20 pm
intro one, which we need. so many -- infrastructure. we need to build some bridges, not these silly walls and repair infrastructure. we're not talking about these critical issues and we're focused on all of this talk about his emergency which is going nowhere. it will be in court. it will be in the house being debated but he's going to divert us off of -- >> so you're confident that it can be put off? >> oh, yes. >> he's saying he has money from the pentagon. he's got $8 billion. in fact today, congresswoman, he was asked how can you guarantee that money you're going to get from the pentagon? he's not going to come away from men and women in uniform currently serving. he's talked to the generals. here's what he said. >> we had certain funds that are being used at the discretion of generals at the discretion of the military. some of them haven't been allocated yet and some of the generals think this is more important. i was speaking to a couple of
4:21 pm
them. they think this is far more important than what they were going to use it for. >> do you believe generals, plural, said that? >> the way generals would say that is by telling congress that has the authority to initiate spending and to transfer spending not the president of the united states and they haven't done that. so if they really wanted that to happen, they would call the democrats and republicans in congress and the appropriate committees and ask for legislation and steps in that direction. that's how things are done. that's why it's unconstitutional. he can't come in and shift money around that's appropriated for needs that's debated and voted on and come out of the committee process and the appropriations process. >> i want to ask you about another story, amazon abruptly canceling plans. it would be a massive headquarters, right, in new york. people like your colleague alexandria ocasio cortez. today was a group they defeated
4:22 pm
amazon. it's your district, not hers. is that how you see it? >> absolutely. my constituents want job. >> 25,000 jobs. >> minimum. it would have been many, many more. 25,000 jobs at 150,000 minimum for the job. many entry-level jobs would have been many, many more. they were working with the community on job fairs. the other types of entry-level jobs that they would have. there were promises for a new school and having -- as a former teacher i was intrigued with their plans to have a curriculum in 30 different schools supported by amazon on high tech. we should be really diversifying our base of taxes, our base of businesses. we're too dependent on financial services and it used to be that we would protest wars. now we're protesting jobs? people are complaining about
4:23 pm
jobs coming to your -- this is the best -- let me tell you, erin, if this had gone through, it would have made overnight new york city the high tech capitol of the east coast. the most important job center for tech jobs and as a former member of the city counsel, i have worked through several mayors in trying to figure out how to diversify our economy. we've been investing in high tech schools. ones on my district, cornell tech, to train the next geniuses in tech. now we would have had a place for them to go to work. but amazon -- >> you don't. the progressives in your own party, they stopped it. >> well, i'm a progressive too but i'm pragmatic. if someone is going to bring a job to my district and to my city and billions of tax revenue, you had a story that we were 3 billion under projected revenues for the state and roughly 1 billion under projected -- this is the first
4:24 pm
quarter. we're $4 billion less than we usually get and yet we're kicking out a company that would have been paying -- they were projecting over ten years $27 billion in taxes and not to mention the economic activity, the small businesses were thrilled because there would be more activity. i am disappointed. it used to be if you wanted to change something, you worked with the contract to change it. you didn't kick them out. >> the problem is, they didn't talk to them. >> they said we don't want it. they are demonstrating against it and it's jobs. it's jobs. i've never seen anything like this. most of the time people are trying to figure out and spending most of their time trying to figure out how to bring jobs to new york and to keep them here. >> right. thank you very much, congresswoman. i appreciate it. >> i appreciate you and your show. >> thank you. next, breaking news in bob mueller's case against paul manafort. we have new filings coming in. mueller essentially saying that manafort -- he's saying manafort should go to jail the rest of
4:25 pm
his life. and a mass shooting in illinois. five people are dead. we are on the ground tonight with the very latest. prepare for the unexpectedlp yu with retirement planning and advice for what you need today and tomorrow. because when you're with fidelity, there's nothing to stop you from moving forward. bipolar i disorder can make you feel like you have no limits. but mania, such as unusual changes in your mood, activity or energy levels, can leave you on... shaky ground. help take control by asking your healthcare provider about vraylar. vraylar treats acute mania of bipolar i disorder. vraylar significantly reduces overall manic symptoms, and was proven in adults with mixed episodes who have both mania and depression. vraylar should not be used in elderly patients with dementia, due to increased risk of death or stroke. call your doctor about fever, stiff muscles, or confusion, which may mean a life-threatening reaction
4:26 pm
or uncontrollable muscle movements, which may be permanent. side effects may not appear for several weeks. high cholesterol and weight gain; high blood sugar, which can lead to coma or death; decreased white blood cells, which can be fatal; dizziness upon standing; falls; seizures; impaired judgement; heat sensitivity; and trouble swallowing may occur. you're more than just your bipolar i. ask about vraylar.
4:27 pm
just your bipolar i. for each family member? so with xfinity mobile i can customize each line yup. and since it comes with your internet, you can switch wireless carriers and save hundreds of dollars a year. are you pullin' my leg?
4:28 pm
nope. you sure you're not pullin' my leg? i think it's your dog. oh it's him. good call. get the data options you need and still save hundreds of dollars... do you guys sell other dogs? that's simple, easy, awesome. customize each line by paying for data by the gig or get unlimited. and now get $200 back when you buy and eligible smartphone. click, call, or visit a store today. skbreeking news in the russia investigation. the special counsel saying paul manafort should go to prison for 19 1/2 to 24 1/2 years. that is a life sentence for a man who turned 70 on april 1st. evan perez is out front. there's a lot here coming out and a sentencing memo getting filed. what else do you see there? >> that's right, erin. what the special counsel's
4:29 pm
prosecutors are asking the judge to do is to give him the rest of his life in prison. on bank fraud, financial crimes and they say essentially manafort acted for more than a decade as if he were above the law and deprive the government of various financial institutions of millions of dollars. this goes to the heart of the case. tax fraud, bank fraud that his supporters would argue would have nothing to do with the russia investigation. that's a fair argument. one of the things the special counsel points out in this filing is that manafort had all of the means to do things the right way. he chose to commit crimes even while he was working obviously for the president as the chairman of his campaign. some of those crimes continued
4:30 pm
into the time that he was working for the president's campaign. so, again, there's a lot of information coming in here including from the sentencing memo and a separate filing that just came in from a transcript from a closed sealed hearing that was going on in the federal court in d.c. again having to do with paul manafort, erin. >> so let me ask you about that. i do simply want to make the point while they'll say tax fraud, bank sfraud have nothing to do with russia, they're right. who knows. the financial situation, the hole he was in could essentially end up being the motive for any sort of collusion or conspiracy if there is any which goes to the heart of the other transcript that you're talking about. >> exactly. >> which is manafort's conversations and lies. his interactions with an alleged russian operative. >> the two cases, even though they did end up being split up partly because of paul
4:31 pm
manafort's team did let them join and be tried in one jurisdiction, they had to do two separate cases. in the dc case. he was financially desperate. he had been cut off from the spigot in ukraine, the russian money that he had been doing business for many, many years over there. so one of the key figures in that is con stand teen kilimnik. this is a business associate that the special counsel says is essentially a russian operative. there's a lot of stuff still redacted in the transcript of this hearing that we just got, but in it you can see that the defense is trying to make a big argument. they're saying that it's more complicated than that. that con stand teen kilimnik wasn't just a russian spy but they're suggesting that he had multiple meetings with diplomats at the u.s. embassy in can i he have, that he w kiev. perhaps he was a double agent
4:32 pm
providing information. he was an informant for the u.s. at the same time he was working with the russians. so the judge in her response to this says that's not material. you know, this does not go -- this doesn't necessarily mean that what he was doing was not nefarious and that he wasn't trying to lie to prosecutors to hide this. >> all right. so, evan, i know you're reading through this. hopefully we can stay hooked up. there's more questions i want to ask you. i want to bring our panel in as evan is trying to read this. this transcript we're talking about is 68 pages. i'm going to make a point about those 68 pages. harry san deck, southern district of new york. julia kayem and frank rooney of "the new york times." let me go straight to the question i'm going to ask evan. from page 49, and i'm just showing this. the early pages have plenty of redactions but from this point on, this is it. you're talking about 20 some on pages of redactions straight. significant?
4:33 pm
>> i think that must relate to ongoing investigations by mueller and to places where even discussing the nature of manafort's lies in his proffer sessions with mueller would reveal essentially secrets that the prosecution believes should not be for the public. >> let me ask you about the significance of this. everyone keeps saying mueller is almost done. if he were almost done would he be seeing transcripts that come out that have this much black in them? >> no. yeah, everyone is the trump team. everyone is giuliani. so we have to be careful repeating what they're telling us. there's no -- look, roger stone just got indicted and if roger stone actually ends up speaking, that's going to be a whole new series of investigations. going to the unredacted part though, i do want to say -- >> yes. >> -- and i have bad eyesight, but it's just -- what's interesting because we can't -- you know, why would manafort have done this? why would he have protected
4:34 pm
kilimnik? why would he have lied and ruined the possibility to get out of jail while still alive. the judge says something interesting and says that manafort appears to have not only wanted to sort of protect himself but to exonerate kilimnik in these -- by these lies. it says so on -- page 26. this is a theory that we've never heard before which is manafort is protecting -- wants people to believe that kilimnik is not who we all knee who he is, which is an asset and a friend of putin. the judge consistently says this is what manafort is doing. he's trying to protect kilimnik because kilimnik might be doing other things that manafort wants to protect and the judge says it right there openly. and it's just that -- i read quickly, but this is the piece that stood out to me. i had never heard the theory before. >> frank, this also comes as, you know, someone last night was saying manafort's in a situation where when he had to choose
4:35 pm
perhaps he was worried about his life or his family's life at the expense of russian crime, russian -- i mean, this is opening up a whole lot of questions, the motives of paul manafort. because what he did by doing all of this, he's not a stupid man, is most likely going to go to jail for the rest of his life. >> no, it's a stunning and breathtaking thing. this is one of the most protective falls in american politics as we've seen. he may spend the rest of his life in prison. if that has happened because from the moment he was on prosecutor's radar, from the moment he was indicted he has lied in an effort to get away with it. he's been caught. he has dug his hole as deep as it can be done. he wouldn't do that haphazardly or casually. why defiel he could not tell the truth and mitigate the damage and punishment. >> that is the crucial question. we've all talked to people who have been interviewed by the special counsel. i've talked to people who have been interviewed several times.
4:36 pm
some publicly and some privately. they all say the same thing. they don't ask a question if they don't have it already lined up. paul manafort had the same experience. when he lied he knew they knew he was lying. >> the picture depicted in this transcript is exactly that. it's agonizing to read. you see the judge saying that they would ask him a question, he would answer it incorrectly. the special counsel would then show a little bit of the facts that they knew and then manafort would change his answer but only to the extent that he now knew that some of the facts were known by the special counsel leaving part of the lie in place and then gradually retrench again and do it over and over again. >> pitiful. >> then his lawyers say it's unintentional. how could it be? >> evan, are you still there? sorry, evan. i know you were reading through it. i just wanted to ask you because there's obviously plenty of redactions here. right as you were starting to skim through and read we were pointing out page 49 on and how
4:37 pm
it's all redacted. just wondering what you thought the significance of that was and how that was all sort of in a row and towards the end here of the transcript. >> right. there's a couple of things that are happening. there is, according to the special counsel, paul manafort lied about another investigation. another investigation that is still ongoing. we don't know what that investigation is, so it may well be i think one of your guests mentioned that it may well relate to that investigation. we also know, erin, from the transcript, we can tell there's this big fight going on between the defense and the special counsel's office. one of the things they talk about is essentially the idea that the defense wants certain information unredacted, to be public. it appears to relate to some of kilimnik's meetings with u.s. diplomats. they think this makes kilimnik to be no big deal. the judge isn't buying that. the judge is saying that doesn't matter. in the end he still lied. she's already ruled that he lied to hide his relationship with
4:38 pm
kilimnik, his communications with kilimnik. also, it's important to note that according to the special counsel, according to the judge now, part of what was going on was paul manafort was meeting with kilimnik to talk about some ukraine peace deal that apparently was being floated. >> right. >> perhaps that would have helped relieve sanctions on the russians, right? that's part of the story here. then the other thing is that he had passed polling data to kilimn kilimnik. there was a secret meeting at the havana club in new york. this is information that the judge says it doesn't matter who -- you know, whether kilimnik was also providing information to the diplomats, whether he was a double agent or not. he was trying to hide it and he was trying to essentially obstruct the investigation. >> julia, can i ask you though because you know it comes out when we're saying he lied and then they would show a little bit, then he would change the lie a little bit, he'd show a little more. you see it bit by bit by bit. so that opens up the question,
4:39 pm
julie a, as to why. i can only think of two reasons. one, there's something worse than spending the rest of your life in jail that can't be foresaw. and, two, he's betting on a pardon. >> it could be both. it could be that things are worse than we see right now and also that he's hoping that because it's already looked so bad trump's going to come in. let's just take a step back on this lovely friday we are spending again together. so sarah sanders we learned today goes in to discuss the russians and whether this meeting in trump tower. roger stone. we learned from mueller is in direct contact with wikileaks and we don't know who else was in contact with wikileaks because mueller says they have the -- they have the e-mails but they do not have -- they did not disclose if anyone else is on the e-mails or communications. now manafort is going to jail for the rest of his life if he doesn't get pardoned because he also lied about the russians. so what's the common theme here? the trump -- the trump team is
4:40 pm
lying about the russians. i don't know how much more evidence that we need to say this actually has everything to do with the president at this stage. >> can i give you one more reason why he may have lied? at this point in his life it may be a reflex. paul manafort has been a scam artist his whole life. i don't think it's the only reason but i think his lying muscle at this point in his life is pretty well developed. >> thank you very much, all of you, as we continue to go through the steps that we have, at least 68 pages and the portions -- the special counsel requesting that paul manafort spend the rest of his life in jail. a gunman kills five people in chicago. we'll tell you what we know about this story and beto o'rourke coming out swinging against president trump just moments ago. ...once a day... ...with nutrients that support 6 vital functions... ...and one healthy you.
4:41 pm
that's the power of one a day. what do you look for i want free access to research. yep, td ameritrade's got that. free access to every platform. yeah, that too. i don't want any trade minimums. yeah, i totally agree, they don't have any of those. i want to know what i'm paying upfront. yes, absolutely. do you just say yes to everything? hm. well i say no to kale. mm. yeah, they say if you blanch it it's better, but that seems like a lot of work. no hidden fees. no platform fees. no trade minimums. and yes, it's all at one low price. td ameritrade. ♪ the company who invented car vending machines and buying a car 100% online. now we've created a brand new way for you to sell your car. whether it's a few years old or dinosaur old, we want to buy your car. so go to carvana and enter your license plate, answer a few questions, and our techno-wizardry calculates your car's value and gives you a real offer in seconds. when you're ready, we'll come to you, pay you on the spot, and pick up your car. that's it. so ditch the old way of selling your car
4:42 pm
and say hello to the new way... at carvana. to be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing it's best to make you everybody else... ♪ ♪ means to fight the hardest battle, which any human being can fight and never stop. does this sound dismal? it isn't. ♪ ♪ it's the most wonderful life on earth. ♪ ♪
4:43 pm
- (phone ringing)a phones offers - big button,ecialized phones... and volume-enhanced phones., get details on this state program. call or visit
4:44 pm
and accessoriesphones for your mobile phone. like this device to increase volume on your cell phone. - ( phone ringing ) - get details on this state program call or visit breaking news. five people are dead. several more injured after a gunman opened fire at an industrial manufacturing plant in aurora, illinois, near chicago. the gunman was believed to be an employee of the henry kraft companies. manufacturing company but police are still trying to understand what happened here in this tragedy. sara sidner is out front from aurora. what more have you learned. >> reporter: really terrible day in this aurora neighborhood. as you mentioned, five people dead. we also know that the shooter
4:45 pm
himself has been killed. five officers wounded and as the police put it, a number of civilians, we do know that several of them are in area hospitals. this neighborhood is an interesting place. it is a place where you've got lots of hard working folks who live around an area that is also having manufacturing plants. what you see is a mixed neighborhood of people. a lot of the neighbors that we spoke with telling us that they didn't hear a whole lot but they certainly found out when the shooting began because all of a sudden there were so many police officers. we saw s.w.a.t. officers. we saw all sorts of manner of emergency vehicles came here. we also saw a chaplain, as you might imagine, extremely stressful for the police who were involved in this and helped bring this to a close and terrifying for people who were inside the building as the shooter went around. we know that a witness spoke to one of our local sister stations
4:46 pm
and has said to them that, you know, this person seemed to be shooting at every and anybody, that it was just a terrifying situation inside of this company today. >> sarah, do they have any idea what this -- anything about this person? the motive? how they got there? anything at this point? >> reporter: look, at this point, you know, there is a lot of speculation. we do know his name. it's gary martin. he's 45 years old. there are comments from the same witness that talked about what it was like being inside that he believed that he may have worked in one of these buildings around here. so that is what we know right now. there is going to be more information, of course, coming down the pike later. right now i think the real concentration has been on the victims, on the fact that there are five people dead. there are five officers, police officers wounded and numerous other civilians wounded. this has been a very difficult day and as you might imagine there is still a scene here. you can see the flashing lights.
4:47 pm
still a lot of a police presence here in aurora. >> thank you very much, sara. up next, beto o'rourke slamming trump saying racism has defined his presidency and he's not the only one speaking out tonight. trump's rocky relationship with the truth. has he come clean about his health? ♪ ♪ i can do more to lower my a1c. because my body can still make its own insulin. and i take trulicity once a week to activate my body to release it, like it's supposed to. trulicity is not insulin. it starts acting in my body from the first dose and continues to work when i need it, 24/7. trulicity is an injection to improve blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes when used with diet and exercise.
4:48 pm
don't use it as the first medicine to treat diabetes, or if you have type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. don't take trulicity if you or your family have medullary thyroid cancer, you're allergic to trulicity, or have multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. stop trulicity and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of a serious allergic reaction, a lump or swelling in your neck, or severe stomach pain. serious side effects may include pancreatitis. taking trulicity with a sulfonylurea or insulin increases your low blood sugar risk. common side effects include nausea, diarrhea, vomiting, abdominal pain, and decreased appetite. these can lead to dehydration, which may worsen kidney problems. i choose once-weekly trulicity to activate my within. if you need help lowering your a1c, ask your doctor about once-weekly trulicity.
4:49 pm
don't get mad. get e*trade, dawg.
4:50 pm
tonight taking on the president, beto o'rourke is still waiting for a visit. he's slamming president trump. it was intended to spoke the fear and racism that has defined trump's presidency. he is not the only one going after trump tonight. >> senator kamala harris. >> reporter: a packed gymnasium greeted kamala harris, talking up her gun safety measures. she addressed the president's national emergency declaration. >> it is absolutely going to be the subject rightly of litigation. we should have expect the plain language actually speaks to the
4:51 pm
moment and that there is an emergency. this is an emergency of this president's own creation for political purposes. it's the height of irresponsibly. >> reporter: the latest fight for the 2020 democrats, disagreeing with the declaration. gillibrand echoing her colleagues. >> the only national emergency is the humanitarian crisis that president trump has created at our border by separating families from children and treating people who need our help inhumanely. >> reporter: beto o'rourke said he would take the wall down. >> would you take the wall down? >> yes. i would take the wall down. >> reporter: asked if she agreed gillibrand didn't rule it out. >> i could look at it and see which part he means and why and if it makes sense, i could support it. >> reporter: harris asked, said
4:52 pm
this. >> i believe there's a need and we should create border security. the question is, where do we need to put the resources to make sure that our border is safe. what the president is doing right now is irresponsible. >> reporter: harris heads to a different part of the state, columbia, south carolina. after that, on to new hampshire. that is going to be over the long holiday weekend. we should point out that it's going to be a very packed early state, a total of six democratic presidential hopefuls will all be in new hampshire. at least toward the tail end of the holiday weekend. >> thank you very much. let's go to andrew gillum, a rising star in the democratic party. let me ask you, beto o'rourke says the wall should be ripped
4:53 pm
dow down. they are all weighing in. are they right to take on tru trump's wall? should they say, i'm going to define my own issue? >> i mean, i will supplement my judgment for that of beto o'rourke who represented the el paso area in congress about that particular area of the wall. i will tell you, what irks democrats about this whole talk about the wall and this made up crisis ain the president's mind and head is quite frankly what this wall represents. it's no -- it's not about a physical barrier as much as it is about the rich centuries old tradition of people being able to come from anywhere and make it to america and being able to make the best of themselves. the highest use of themselves. to pursue the american dream. what this president is attempting to do is to dim that light. i think that's why you see such
4:54 pm
a strong rebuff, particularly from folks in the middle and on the left to this idea of a crisis when the facts defy that. >> when beto says the president is a racist, you agree with that? >> well, i mean, there's no doubt about it, this president has made it a hallmark of his administration so far to race bait, to create moral equivalency between those who would seek to divide us off of the way that we look, the language we speak, the country or region of this country offing or of origination. it's not who we are. i think that we ought to collectively, on the left and right and in the middle, reject that brand of devie sivisive po.
4:55 pm
>> you ran a close race in florida. you lost, but it was a close race. 32,000 votes. >> thanks for the reminder. >> i'm sure -- i'm sure it's not something you need reminding of. i say it because the democratic nominee is going to need you. you are an important voice in florida. do you have a favorite candidate yet? do you want to be getting in early to help someone campaign? are you going to wait? >> i mean, what i'm going to do to help is in a state where i literally came within a rounding era of becoming governor, one of the most diverse and obviously one of the largest swing states in the country is i'm going to do everything i can to make this state a state that will be ready to go blue for whom evever the democratic nominee will be. whoever that individual will be, that's who i'm planning to help. >> i have to ask. you want the state to go blue. your state is known for many things. one of them is that you don't have an income tax. a lot of democrats in washington are pushing for the opposite.
4:56 pm
they want to race them on the wealthy. i want to play something. >> i think it's stupid for a state to drive the rich people out. they are old. they keep your hospitals busy. they don't burden your schools. the police department, your prisons. they give a lot. who wouldn't want rich people? >> he mentions florida specifically being smart in recruiting wealthy people, having no income tax. are members going too far with their plans to raise taxes? >> i will say that everybody needs to pay their fair share. in the state of florida today, 44% of people, working people, say that they cannot make ends meet at the end of the month. there's no reason why big corporations out there should be paying no taxes, federally. we have seen reporting on that lately when working people are out here starving to make sure
4:57 pm
they can keep a roof over their head and food on the table and clothes on their and their children's backs. there's an inequity in the staple. that's wh we have to level that. >> thank you very much. i appreciate your time. new tonight, the cardiolo cardiologist for dick cheney calling for an independent panel to oversee president trump's health, after he criticized the white house for lack of transparency on the report on trump's physical. why do you believe this? >> look, i have worked for the last 18 years off and on with many people in the white house medical unit. the doctors and nurses who work there are some of the finest people i have known. they are true patriots doing difficult work. they have an impossible job.
4:58 pm
their patient is their commander in chief. it can be very difficult in that setting not to become sort of part of the team that tries to craft a message. imagine if the person who examined your pilot worked for your pilot. we depend on people in key positions having independent medical exams. i think the time is now to create an independent panel to assess the fitness of the president and vice-president. >> of course. last year, we saw the doctor who examined the president saying he would live to 200 years. it was farcical. it raises questions. you are -- when you look at the information we were given, you are worried about the president's health. why? >> he is not moving in the right direction. the president's weight has gone up. his cholesterol hasn't gone
4:59 pm
down. we know he has coronary disease. he is on a train going to a destination that he does not want to arrive at. if you don't treat these risk factors like high cholesterol and you don't reduce elevated weight and you don't do exercise, you are really increasing your risk of having a heart attack. i calculated the president's risk of having a serious cardiovascular cardiovascular event. it's 17%. >> is that -- that's high? >> yeah. that's super high. to turn that around, the president needs to get moving, lose some weight, really drop the carbs in his diet and get his cholesterol way down. it would be good to see him moving in a different direction than he seems to have gone over the last year. >> it doesn't seem that he -- the reporting, he doesn't go to the gym. try to eat more healthy, but we
5:00 pm
did see his health go up four pounds. he is technically clinically obese. thank you. i appreciate your time. >> my pleasure. i appreciate yours as well. have a great weekend. thank you for joining us. "a c3 "ac 360" begins now. the real emergency, sadly where we begin tonight, a mass casualty shooting at a factory outside chicago. it's the horrible things we have learned to expect. right now, five people we know have been killed as has the suspected gunman. sara sidner is on the screen. what's the latest? >> reporter: we have been hearing about how this all went down around 1:24 here local time. they talk about the fact that a couple of officers got here quickly. they went into the area. they were shot. a few more showed up. in the