tv Cuomo Prime Time CNN March 4, 2019 7:00pm-8:00pm PST
he knows he's asking for a democrat to force an emergency on him sooner or later. but he can't work his magic and find out a way to bring this vote, so what will they do? this moment is going to tell us a lot. i hope we're surprised. i hope the outcome doesn't just meet our lowest expectations. we all know it's way past time to show that we can be better than how we are right now. is this the moment that righteousness recovers? we'll see. all right. let's see something else. how about a bonus hour of cuomo "prime time"? democrats coming after the president in a way we have not seen before. casting a wide net over trump world today. what are they looking for? how far do they plan to go? we've got a key lawmaker here. what can he tell us? and what about that deadline? wasn't today the day the white house was supposed to get back to the oversight committee on security clearances? did they miss it?
what could they be trying to hide? that's cuomo's court. and devastating developments out of alabama. the death toll is rising. massive tornadoes tore through homes. i hope you've seen the pictures, and i hope you're thinking about the need there. we have a survivor. what a story. it's a tough night, so let's get after it. the chairman of the committee that launched today's massive trump world investigation says impeachment is a long way off. but are they laying the groundwork right now? >> our goal is to hold the administration accountable for the obstruction of justice, the abuse of power, and the corruption. we have to find out what's been going on, and we have to lay out a case to the american people and reveal it. >> we had the head of the democratic caucus on earlier, hakeem jeffries. i don't see how they launch a probe like this but say it's got nothing to do with impeachment. yes, they have constitutional oversight, but it seems to be a
conflation of the interests here. we'll see which way it goes and what it yields. one of the things they want are records involving the president's communications with vladimir putin. are they going to get to talk to the interpreter? there aren't any notes. i want to bring in tennessee congressman steve cohen. he's a democrat on the judiciary committee. welcome back to "prime time," sir. >> good to be back with you, chris. >> so deal with my skepticism, congressman. where does this go except you guys making a case for impeachment? mueller looked at a lot of these things already. you'll get information, but if it's not going to lead to a prosecution, impeachment's the only path of any kind of accountability for what you find, is it not? >> well, it is if the justice department continues to say that you can't indict a sitting president. but, you know, the new york state attorney general can indict a sitting president, so he might have problems that he hasn't looked at as far as his immunization from the justice department, from prosecution, and/or his ability to pardon himself or whatever. he won't get that in new york
state. congress will look seriously at all of his activities and all the facts and see if they come to a level like in watergate to where the republicans ended up going to nixon and saying, it's over. you need to resign. the republicans control the votes in the senate, and to get this president to be removed by impeachment, republicans -- at least 18 of them -- would have to vote for impeachment. >> yeah. >> and right now they are acolytes to president trump. you've got your few people like rand paul showing courage and integrity, and lamar alexander, and susan collins, and ms. murkowski, and there might be one other. but you need to have 16 or 17, and to get that, we're going to have to produce facts that force their constituents to put the pressure on them to do what is the right thing to do for america and the rule of law. >> because remember, congressman, with nixon, you had a felony. you had his connection to the burglary. you had the cover-up with the tapes. you had him. so when they went to him and said, this is the case. which way do you want to go
down? he saw the writing on the wall. you're nowhere near that here. so how do you balance the interest of oversight with not overplaying your hand? >> well, i think what you do is what we're doing, is requesting documents, going through those documents, and we've got some outstanding consultants in barry burke and norm eisen who have background and knowledge of some of this information already to go through it with the committee staff and with committee members and then have hearings to have the public know what it is there. we don't know what we'll get in the mueller report. we may have much more. as mr. graff says, he expects more indictments. i expect more indictments. i think mr. graff may be right. but we have to see what comes from mueller, and we have to see whether or not mr. barr will let us see much if not all of the report to know what mueller had. if you can't indict the president and he's maybe done things that are
maladministration, which is what the founding fathers said would amount to impeachable offenses in essence, the congress has to see that and not allow it when he can't be indicted because he can't be indicted is kind of a catch-22, and that's not going to stand, and we're going to have to fight him in court to get those papers if he doesn't release them. he might release them. >> well look, we'll see what level of disclosure there is from mueller and from the a.g. and where that takes you. but this is going to take a long time, congressman. how do you sustain the momentum as, you know, weeks turn into months, turn into many months? the people are going to have expectations. one of the problems is oversight is the farther you go, the more you got to be able to deliver. >> well, the people do want to see information, and we're going to have information. there is so much that the trump administration has done. there's so much corruption, and that's one of the things that we want to do besides working on prescription drug prices and
affordable health care and education and jobs and infrastructure is to clean up the corruption that's out there, and the trump administration has been just complete with -- you know, you started with price and the airplanes, you know, and the interior secretary zinke comes in on a horse, and he's hiring people -- >> isn't an election the way to resolve all this, congressman? if you don't like it, vote him out. >> eventually it may be, and the people will want to know what he's done and what he's hidden from the public, his taxes, his advantages he got on mortgages, understating his assets, and the different ways he's used the system to make his businesses successful. just like this past week tweeting about his golf course and advertising his golf course and saying that's good for our relationships with the united kingdom. a golf course doesn't improve your relations unless the president only cares about his own personal golf course and the profits he makes from it. >> now, let me ask you about why you want to get the interpreter and what you're looking for
between the president and putin. that's going to be tough to get, but let's say there's some kind of compliance. why do you want it? >> well, there's a reason why he didn't want the public to know what he said. there's a reason why he destroyed the notes. and, you know, everybody suspects that there's a relationship that's unholy between trump and putin. and if they talked about sanctions being lifted, if they talked about -- they could have talked about old times and said, you know, we talked about this earlier, and you said you were going to get the sanctions lifted. they might have gone into some history, but they also might have gone into some prospective activity. sanctions, article five, maybe saying we wouldn't support if you invaded estonia or went further in ukraine, we wouldn't go there. we don't know what they said, but whatever it was, he didn't want people to know it. then afterwards, he came out and said he believed putin as far as not being involved with our elections. and everybody knows he was involved with interfering with our elections. trump is the only person that
doesn't know that. >> well, i don't think it's about what the president knows. >> he knows it but he's the only person that doesn't admit it. >> right because i think with the president, that's personal knowledge and it's bad for him because it somehow delegitimized his win. but let's put his psychology to the side. the rule will remain. just like the rule with mueller, the rule for oversight will be we only know what you can show. the questions are serious, but so will the proof have to be. congressman cohen, thank you very much. this conversation is open-ended. whenever you believe there's something the people need to know about, just call away. >> thank you, chris. and i'm not going to bring you a six-pack like higgins did. >> pennsylvania beer from a guy from louisiana. that was very odd, but i was happy for the gesture. be well, sir. we'll drink something else. the white house may be ignoring another big request for information. tonight is the deadline for those answers to why the president did what he did with
security clearances for his son-in-law and maybe his daughter. did the president overrule u.s. intel? if so, why? our investigator is here, next. the right gear... matters. introducing the all-new 2019 ford ranger, it's the right gear. with a terrain management system for... this. a bash plate for... that. an electronic locking rear differential for... yeah... this. heading to the supermarket? get any truck. heading out here? get the ford ranger. the only adventure gear built ford tough. itso chantix can help you quit "slow turkey." along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. with chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting so when the day arrives, you'll be more ready to kiss cigarettes goodbye. when you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix. you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. stop chantix and get help right away if you have changes
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geico could save you fifteen percent need a change of scenery? kayak searches hundreds of travel sites and lets you filter by take-off time, layovers and more, so you can be confident you're getting the right flight at the best price. ♪ kayak. search one and done. all right. we see what the democrats are doing. they are flexing their oversight muscle. 81 people and entities tied to president trump got letters requesting documents from the judiciary committee. two of his sons are on that list as well. so is his former campaign
manager, his businesses, and the list goes on. where does it lead? let's bring in former house intel chair mike rogers. mike, always appreciate it. you were a mentor, certainly will play that role tonight. am i off in continuing to ask democrats, you know, we're only going to know what you show. the more ambitious you are, the higher the bar for what you deliver. they're beating me back on that, but is it a fair point? >> i think it's a very fair point, chris. i mean you said they're flexing their muscle. it looks like they're throwing up on the table. here's the problem with the way they're approaching this thing. with 80 different folks subpoenaed and piles of records, it feeds into what the trump narrative has been. this is they're just after anything that they can find. and a lot of the comments have been, well, we haven't really found anything, but we can't wait for a speedy trial and a really good hanging. and all of that feeds into this weird narrative that people are starting to think, well, are they really after him? is it really true?
and that confusion only benefits the president. i don't understand why they're doing this. they have some areas of which oversight is exactly appropriate. focus on it versus this scattershot hoping that something sticks. i think it's a mistake of strategy, and i think it's going to allow the president to say, oh, my god, i got 80 things, and i got all this stuff and lawyers. it's so hard and confusing. i'll get back to you in a couple of years. >> so do you see abuse of power as a legit avenue, or do you see something else as where legit oversight is needed? >> listen, they're going to have to do a better job for me to understand it. listen, i think if the government, the united states government, everyone ought to look at this whatever party you are, is going to go after something of any individual for any reason. either you're in elected office, running for office, or you're doing something -- you're under an fbi investigation, they have the responsibility to do it right. it can't be a political motive involved, which is hard to do in a congressional investigation. but, listen, you're going to
ruin people's reputation. all of those 80 people that got those subpoenas, most of them did absolutely nothing wrong. maybe all of them did nothing wrong. and so i just think they have to be more judicious about how they do this. saying, you know, you profited on x or y, well, you better be able to show that. saying that and making that condemnation, making that charge from an official from the u.s. government carries weight and standing. my argument is shut up. do your investigation. and then show us what you found. and if you found something, okay. and if you didn't, then don't drag these people through the mud. that part i don't like a lot, and i think there's plenty of targets out there for them. but the way they're doing it, i don't know. i mean think about it if it were you or your family or somebody you know's family. i mean this is really tough stuff. it can't be politics as usual, and we've kind of grown to accept all of this, from both sides by the way. i'm not condemning any party. that is what's poiring me about
where politicians has gone in america. we can't use the force of government to try to embarrass or degrade or kind of give folks a black eye. i don't think it's right. look, that's what we're seeing on so many levels. the democrats are largely going to be looking into the past, what happened, what it may mean for today. but we've got stuff going on right now. i want to remind people of what the president's daughter said on an important issue. mike will explain why it's important. but if the reporting is right, what she's about to tell you here is really problematic. listen to this. >> there were anonymous leaks about there being issues, but the president had no involvement pertaining to my clearance or my husband's clearance. zero. >> what were the problems early on? >> there weren't any other than a backlog that exists of close to a million clearances across government. >> okay. now, ivanka may not have known what the process was and what the president was doing if he did what the reporting suggests, which is he took the decision away from the intel guys and
said, i'm just going to do this. all right? now, the narrative is that she was pestering him to do that. but, again, we don't know that to be true. we know the last thing she said is false, that the only problem was a backlog. no. the problem was that kushner had to keep amending his statement for different types of potential conflicts, and that triggered a lot of different types of red flags that you'd be more familiar with than i as someone who did as much intelligence work as you did. if the president took the decision and his daughter knew about it and is putting out this kind of statement, what are your issues? >> well, you know, i think it's very plausible that she walked in not understanding this process. remember, they went from dead stop, not really involved in politics, had no experience, to sitting in the white house with all of this national security stuff that's complicated on a good day for people who study it. so i'm willing to give that person a pass. >> understood. >> what i am concerned about is if you circumvented the process, if you short circuited the
process for these clearances, that's a problem because we used to beat on folks all across the government, saying, hey, you have to follow the rules. and by the way, we're going to hold you to this high standard because you are getting a clearance from the united states government to protect u.s. government secrets. and that's what i don't like about that if, in fact, that's true. and this should be easy for them to find. listen, if they're going to do the oversight of it and she believes that, and i believe that if she says it, she believes it, that this is an easily provable event. you'll just cooperate and get this one done. i wouldn't try to drag my feet on this if i were them. i'd get it done. by the way, at the end of the day, this is an odd thing, but the president can grant a security clearance if he want. >> 100%. it's just why lie about it? >> yeah, well, that's -- >> why lie about it? all right. so that's what -- >> that's the other issue. >> that's always the issue, right? it's just about how much it matters in a given situation. mike rogers, thank you so much as always. >> hey, thanks, chris. all right. the president said he wouldn't get involved in something else
also. he said he wouldn't get involved in one of the biggest media mergers in history. now there's new reporting suggesting that's exactly what he did, and he did it why you think he did it. because it was personal. did he cross a line? let's take it up in cuomo's court next. if you have moderate to severe psoriasis, little things can be a big deal. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. it may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting.
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president trump has a favorite cable news network, and spoiler alert, it ain't us. a report in "the new yorker" reveals that the president personally asked one of his top aides, gary cohn, to have the doj stop at&t from buying time warner, which is what we used to call our parent company. let's gavel cuomo's court into session. joining me, two heavyweights, laura coats and ken cuccinelli. laura coates, make the case that what you learned today in "the new yorker" is proof that the president did this for bad reason. >> well, you had the idea starting with why would a vertical integration like this, a vertical merger where you have a content distributor buying a content producer get so many people to look? normally you think if you have two competitors in a horizontal merger where you're saying one person is going to be able to
set prices and fix them and have leverage and hurt consumers. from the get-go it was an odd thing to pursue. combine that with contemporaneo contemporaneously, you had 21st century fox and disney merging to inure to the benefit of someone named rupert murdoch who was a confidant and close ally of the president. one would think that similar mergers, similar acquisitions would have the same criticism or the same support. but not so when it comes to the president's personal preference. this has been reiterated by the appellate court, by the lower courts, and it feeds into once again it was motivated politically, which is not how it should ever be done. >> cuccinelli? >> well, the president did very openly talk about this merger in the campaign. so i can't say that his opposition to it was new post-election, though i do agree
with laura that the antitrust case the department of justice filed with the vertical integrated merger was novel. and the reason it had some significance beyond just the one case was the potential for it to affect particularly tech companies like google and facebook depending on how they would proceed going forward into the future because they present some peculiarities. but the courts, both the appellate court and the lower court rejected the -- >> and pointed out that they were suspicious with the motivation. the reporting with gary cohn saying that the president was saying, i want this stopped. i want this stopped. now, the reporting also suggests that cohn told then chief of staff john kelly we're not going to do it. but do you think the president should be saying that kind of thing, ken? >> well, are you talking about
cohn or the president? >> should the president be saying that kind of thing -- >> should he be saying stop this merger? >> yeah. >> yeah, i don't think the issue is whether or not a president takes a position on a merger. i think it's the why. >> yes. >> that is of more relevance. >> exactly. >> and that may be harder to pick apart for a person. but, again, i think he made clear in the campaign that he was going to take this position. do i think that was a good idea? well, no. i'm a conservative, and i look at antitrust as a very handsoff approach, and i think he was being very aggressive here and inappropriately. >> but, lauer, it's all about the why. why would he have said it about the gain? every time he said it when you look at it contextually, is because he was pissed off at cnn? there was an obvious personal animus. >> he didn't just mention it in the campaign. he also issued a press release from the campaign saying that president trump would never allow this particular merger to go forward. and the answer is quite simple. should the president ever weigh
in on an antitrust when he's motivated not by competitors and the people who are the consumers but instead by a personal animus and vengeance and ax to grind? absolutely not, especially if he is supposed to be a conservative or a republican, which by the way, as ken talked about, are normally those who would look at this as a laissez faire and say, you know what, let the markets and the economy do as it sees fit. allow it to take place. now, when you insert yourself into this, put your thumb on the scale, not in the interest of the american consumer or the international consumer, but instead because you don't like the content that is being provided through the distributors and the content producers, that is actually continuing the dilemma of the president of the united states looking at the enemy of the people, the press, and those who distribute the actual news itself. >> should your party stand up more, ken, and say, mr. president, don't abuse your power this way? just because you can't do things doesn't always mean you should.
it's too obvious. it's too flagrant. stop. >> well, i think it's always been true that anytime a president gets outside the boundaries of their power, it shouldn't really matter, but of course it does what party you're in. >> mm-hmm. >> and you're seeing some of the pushback on the immigration emergency vote, my own words for it, though that's going to prevail because the president will be able to veto it. so there are examples where there isn't universal agreement with the president on every issue. but i will say this, and i think this is appropriate. on different issues, you see different republicans providing the pushback, and that's appropriate. they believe different things, and at different times they either agree with the president or they don't. but i think it's a clear sign there's still plenty of republicans willing to express their own independent position regardless of what the president has to say. >> i see it more as from time to
time we see different groups of republicans be with the president and the other ones are quiet. and the quiet is my concern. ken, well argued. laura coates, as always, compelling. thank you very much to you both. it's going to be a long road for tornado survivors in the south. have you seen the pictures? i mean, i'm telling you i've been in these. i've covered these. there is nothing like them when it comes to how they can change someone's life. a survivor joins us with her incredible story on how her family escaped with their lives, and now what? next. when did you see the sign? when i needed to jumpstart sales. build attendance for an event. help people find their way. fastsigns designed new directional signage. and got them back on track. get started at fastsigns.com. and got them back on track. i had a few good tricks to help hide my bladder leak pad. like the old "tunic tug". but always discreet is less bulky. and it really protects. 'cause it turns liquid to gel. so i have nothing to hide.
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the county is holding out hope for survivors in the debris. but i'm telling you, i've worked these stories on the ground. there's so much ground to cover. it's so difficult, it's going to take time. among those who narrowly escaped is 72-year-old ernestine reese. she was found sitting in the middle of a debris field that was once her home. here she is facetiming with her grandson. >> i thank the lord. you tell god thank you. you hear me, boy? >> yeah, watch the lines. watch the lines. >> you hear me? tell god thank you. >> thanking god that she at least is alive. imagine what you would do if you were in their shoes. la shawn wilson knows very well. she's ernestine reese's daughter. thank you for joining us to get the message out of what your family went through and what's going on, where you are. how is ernestine? >> she's in good spirits.
as you can see in the video, she's been strong throughout it all, even in the middle of the devastation. she has maintained her faith, and she's currently in the hospital, but she's stable. so at this point that's all we can ask for considering the losses. >> yeah. no, thank god for that. please send our regards. so you live next door to mom. >> yes. >> the twister is coming. this is where you live. you understand this reality. you're in a mobile home. >> yes. >> what were you told? what were you expecting? and then what did you experience? >> i wasn't in the mobile home at the time. due to my mother's illness, i was at her home. my husband was at our mobile home, and we got the alert. i called him. he was already en route walking to my mom's brick house. and he got inside, and i told my son and my husband to get in the bathroom. i went to go help my mom, who is
limited mobility, to transition her to her rolling walker chair, the roll-about. >> right. >> and i used that to get her to the bathroom at that moment. and i mean within -- i went back to her room to get her oxygen tank. i looked at the tv, and it says 70 miles per hour winds. i'm thinking, okay, we can make this. we've been through hurricanes. we've been through strong winds before. and right at that moment, not even a minute later, the power went out. i shut off her oxygen machine and ran and grabbed an oxygen portable, and i went into the bathroom. as soon as i shut the bathroom door and connected her oxygen, i already knew i could hear the roaring coming, nearing. but at that moment, that's when you heard the house just being torn apart. but even seconds after that, everything started pressing in on us because we were in the bathroom. we were together. we all got pushed down flat. we were like dominoes on top of each other, and my son was on
top of me. he said, mom, i don't want to die. i don't want to die. and i said, son, just pray your way through. i said, pray your way through. and at this point my mom hadn't said anything. i was looking at my husband. i said, mom, are you okay? she said, i'm just praying. she said, kumar, call on jesus. just pray your way through. and i kept saying the same thing. i said, son, just hold on. and i head his hand. and at this point the wind is still whipping. you can look up and see debris going all around us. and it's just unreal. it's not anything i would have imagined for me, my family, in a million years, not for our area, not for our community. it's just devastating. >> it's amazing that you survived. thank god you did. >> and that was the first tornado. >> that's one of the thing is are the structures ready? is the community ready? is the infrastructure ready? there's nothing that moves with the swiftness. >> righting. >> and the lethality of a
tornado. i've seen what it can do, and we're seeing it once again. so you have your lives. you have each other. thank god you're lucky for that. >> we do. >> what do you need? because i know this community is scrambling. is there water right now? >> it is. >> i know you're staying with family, but tell me. >> we haven't been able to assess our damage. i've suffered some injuries. so we haven't really been able to get to our area to know personally what all the needs are. there are several community members that are pulling together and locations that have been set up. i don't know them all right now to really say, but i know that there are outlets that are being created. right now prayers. the community will need a lot of help to grow and regrow. we've lost family members. i've lost family members. we've lost close friends. all of my neighbors around me. it's just -- it's a lot to process. i'm just hopeful that we can get past this because we were all a tight-knit community.
our area is just a rural, loving community. i'm just counting on that faith that it will keep us strong, we'll hold together, and we'll make it through. we'll make it through. >> lashawn, i am so sorry for your loss. i'm so sorry to have to meet you this way. >> yes. >> but part of the power of prayer is that people will feel the need, and they'll feel the connection of there but for the grace, so many people in this country could be in your situation. and hopefully there will be help to get you guys back on your feet as soon as possible. you have our number to stay in touch. >> yes. >> please do so. please let be able to update and show people that you and your loved ones are in a better place. and send our regards to ernestine, and engooagain, i'm for the loss of your friends and family. >> yes. thank you so much. >> all right. be well. lashawn wilson. i'm telling you, that community, the need is going to be great. we say it all the time.
remember our connections to one another. i will keep you in the loop. i promise you that. all right. another story. comments by a freshman democrat have her own party once again contemplating a public rebuke. the right says talk is cheap. do to yours what you wanted us to do to steve king, and what they did do. we're going to take it up in the great debate next. ♪ t-mobile will do the math for you. right now, when you join t-mobile, you get two lines of unlimited with two of the latest phones included for just one hundred bucks a month. (coughing) need a change of scenery? kayak searches hundreds of travel sites
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anti-semitism as soon as wednesday after omar insinuated last week that pro-israel groups are pushing allegiance to a foreign country. republicans, however, say talk is not enough. she's got to be roved from committee assignments just like steve king. let's debate it. peter beinart and amy kremer are here. thanks to both of you. peter, you asked for the right to take care of the bigoted comments from steve king. they did it. they removed him from committees. should the democrats do the same? >> no, i don't think there's really any equivalence here at all. i do think ilhan omar made a mistake by talking about groups like apack as pushing allegiance to a foreign country. the truth is she can't get in the minds of apac, who have their own motivations for pursuing the set of policies they pursue. the fumd difference is ilhan omar is fundamentally a believer
in human rights and human equality. her fundamental point was just as we care about the rights and suffering of jews, we should also care about the rights of suffering of palestinians. and that's the debate she's trying to create here. why is it considered okay in washington to support israeli policies that deny the most basic of human rights to palestinians? that is what makes her so fundamentally different than steve king, who is basically a guy for his entire career has suggested that non-white and non-christian people are not as good as white christian. >> one check on your argument. first of all, i invited the congresswoman on to make her case. the invite stands. i did the same with steve king. i've interviewed him many times, but since this, he has not accepted an invite. that aside, you say she made a mistake. this isn't a mistake. she said these kinds of things many times, peter. where's the mistake? >> i think what her mistake was not -- i think she has every right to criticize apac. apac is an organization, let's be clear, that essentially supports the israeli government
policies no matter what they are, and i think those policies are fundamentally anathema to human rights for palestinians. >> okay. >> the mistake she made was rather than simply criticizing the policies to try to speculate about the motivations for the policies. >> amy, what's your take? >> well, chris, i agree with you. i don't think it was a mistake. she has said these things time and time again. and, you know, i think nancy pelosi has a problem on her hands. the democratic leadership. and, you know, i do want her stripped of her committee assignments. it's concerning that she has a seat on the foreign affairs committee. but that's going to be left up to the democratic leadership. the problem i see, chris, is that, i mean, i believe this is who she is. she hates israel, and no matter how many times she's forced to apologize or retract what she says, you remove her from the committee. you censor her on the floor of the house. you're not going to change what's in her heart.
and therein lies the problem, and i think that that is something that's going to have to be dealt with when the election comes up in 2020. is this something the people want representing them in congress? do they want somebody that hates israel in congress? and i think that is the real issue. >> all right. same fix that you guys were in with steve king. i think the same analysis that you're offering, amy, applies to him equally so. but it took your party a long time to get around to it. so now i want to segue into acts of political bravery, and i'll start with you this time, amy. >> okay. >> this national emergency vote matters. >> it does. >> you guys would crush president trump if he were a democrat and did this. you'd say it's a flagrant violation of separation of powers. this law was not meant to be used this way. and he does not have the power of the purse, and he cannot create that right. you're not doing that here. you have some, but you don't have anywhere near what you'd need to stop it. why? >> well, this is what i'll say to that, chris, is that
president obama did use these emergency powers a number of times, and not one of them stood up and tried to stop it. and not only that, the emergency powers have to be reviewed every six months. and not once have any of these four republicans ever stood up and said anything about the review of them, nor have they at any time talked about getting -- if the law is a bad law that grants the president the authority to do this, then deal with the law itself. >> it's not that it's a bad law. it's that the law wasn't intended for this, and the president knows it. that's why he even said, this is not an emergency. >> well, chris, i believe that, you know, you can call it an act of bravery or whatever you want to call it. but at the end of the day, the president was elected to secure the border. there is a national crisis going on. just the amount of heroin and fentanyl alone that are coming across the border, not to mention the human trafficking
and the other things that are going on across the border. so just the drugs alone are a problem, and i think it's a national crisis. that's why this president was elected. if you look at congress' approval numbers, they are in the tank. we have relied on congress for too long to do something about it. they haven't done anything about it. so this president was elected to do this. >> right. >> and he's following through on that promise. >> you know, it's remarkable. i could take those literally word for word what you've said, we've relied on congress to resolve this problem and it hasn't done, to apply to any issues the democrats care about, some much which i would argue much more genuinely deserve the term emergency. climate change for instance or gun control, right? basically when you start saying, because congress hasn't dealt with this in the way the president wants to, we're going to allow the president to basically just start spending money even when congress hasn't appropriated it. i remember a time when republicans liked to call themselves the constitutionalists in washington. thank goodness there are still a few of them who actually believe
that, but i think unfortunately you don't. >> no. i want to say make one thing clear. i did not like president obama doing things through executive order, and i prefer that president trump not do them through executive order. i think it's unfortunate we're where the democrats and republicans cannot come together and deal with this issue because everything is political. and this is about our national security. so i want to make it clear, i don't agree with them doing things through executive order but i think this is something that does need to be done. >> if you don't deep a line in place, it will always be crossed. and that's what we're seeing. peter beinart, amy kramer, appreciate the debate. >> thank you. >> remember when everybody was asking whether trump ally roger stone could remain quiet after the judge slapped a gag order on him? well, we got the answer. ready for it? next. oh!oh! oh! ♪ ozempic®! ♪ (announcer) people with type 2 diabetes are excited about the potential of once-weekly ozempic®. in a study with ozempic®, a majority of adults lowered their blood sugar
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ten days. that's how long it took for roger stone to throw himself back into the fire after a federal judge banned him from making public comments of any kind about the case. this weekend the long-time trump associate suggested he'd been framed by the special counsel in a social media post. what does this mean? renato mariotti is here. renato, you take the he crossed the line position. i will defend. >> okay. well, let me tell you something. the judge indicated that he shouldn't comment at all. in addition to that instagram post he's also published a book that talks at length about the case. he's continued distributing the book afterwards. his lawyers have asked -- they made a motion to clarify to the judge. and i'll tell you, chris, when you make a motion for the judge to clarify a ruling, that's a very bad sign. and it's also a bad sign that they told the judge that it
hadn't occurred to them to report this to her earlier. >> that's the defense. that's the defense. we didn't know that this counted. we thought you wanted us to stop talking about you and stop talking about the specifics of the case. but the book is really only tangentially involved in the case and it's actually about other dynamics and even what we put, that this framing we believe is much bigger than just this one case. the media's doing it. the left is doing it. >> yeah, i've got to give you a lot of credit, chris, because you're able to say that with a straight face. and that is more than i could do in that circumstance. i would ask for the court's mercy in a circumstance like this. >> they already did that once. you can't do that because i already do d. that once. i already went to her once and said i'm sorry, i'm sorry, i'm sorry. >> you know, it's -- i think that's the situation that they're in.
this is really twice, chris. the first time she gave -- she curbed in some circumstances roger stone's ability to speak. then he puts crosshairs on a picture of the judge. bad idea. >> yes. >> they have a long hearing. she gives hmm a full gag order. now we're back with a book and an instagram post? it's easy to argue you overlook one thing. not two. i think he's in a very bad spot here. and the funny thing is he would have been okay if he left one of these things off. >> understood. but here's the last line of my defense. you hurt yourself more than you hurt me if you act on this ruling. if throw me in jail, you make me a martyr. what i'm saying is over the line. but the line is arbitrary. let's just get the case done. this is what i do. i'm a dirty trickster. that's how i describe myself. that's what i do. that's what stone calls himself. you throw me in jail, you make me a martyr. this isn't that big a deal.
don't make it a bigger deal. you want to call my lawyer and say something about it, i think on something like this that wouldn't really count as ex parte with the prosecutor, but if you want the prosecutor to and all say you do this again you're done, we're going to go to the judge, fine. but you lose by winning by enforcing this rule. >> yeah, i think judge jackson would say she doesn't care about winning or losing. she's here to maintain a judicial system that is fair and impartial and she's not going to let -- >> oh, come on. if it was renato mariotti's face with those crosshairs on it she wouldn't have acted the same way that she did when it was her face in the crosshairs. it's personal. and i understand that it's personal. but if you put me in jail it's personal too. and it's going to be on you, judge, not just on me. >> the federal judiciary tends to take a lot of umbrage over threats to the federal judiciary. i suspect the d.c. circuit court of appeals would also find her
ruling to be justified in those circumstances. >> throw me in jail? does he go to jail? does my client go to jail? >> you know what? if stone doesn't go to jail this time, he's going to screw this up and he's going to be right back in the same situation a week from now. at this rate. i think it's just a matter of time before roger stone ends up in custody. the question is whether she does it today -- or excuse me, tomorrow. or whether she does it, you know, a few weeks from now. >> got to respect the court. but you've got to respect the outcome of these kinds of decisions too. this is all -- there's a lot of politics. i'm not saying on the part of the judge. but i'm saying everything that happens has political implications. she's got to see about that as well. point is to make things better, not worse. renato mariotti, well argued. you had the better side of the case. but that's all right. so thank you for watching us. i appreciate it. "cnn tonight" with erin burnett, she's sitting in for d-lemon, and begins right now. what an upgrade. >> you know, occasionally.
right? >> holy cow. >> all right. thanks, chris. we'll be here all week. and this is "cnn tonight." i'm erin burnett, in for the one and only don lemon, who is off today. the house judiciary committee launching a broad investigation into president trump. taking a look at his administration, his campaign, his transition, his businesses, pretty much everything there is about the guy. the committee sending out letters to 81 people and entities. so that includes the white house, justice department, senior campaign officials, trump organization officials, the president's sons. tonight i asked the chairman of the committee what all this is about, what does he want to learn. >> our goal is to hold the administration accountable for the obstruction of justice, the abuse of power, and the corruption. our goal is to vindicate the rule of law, to protect the rule of law in this country. and that's our core function as a judiciary committee of the congress. and we have to find out what's been going on and we have to lay out a case to the american people and rev