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tv   CNN Tonight With Don Lemon  CNN  March 19, 2019 7:00pm-8:00pm PDT

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that's all the time we have. i want to turn things over to don lemon for "cnn tonight." this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. we've got big news tonight on the mueller investigation to tell you about. the deputy attorney general, rod rosenstein, intends to stay at the justice department longer than he planned. until the mueller report drops. a source is telling cnn that rosenstein wants to stick around so he can be the, quote, heat shield, or take the punches if there's fallout from the report. we're going to have more on that in just a moment. a lot more on that in just a moment to tell you about. but tonight, we've also got to talk about all the president's enemies, okay? well, his perceived enemies, at
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least. anybody who doesn't knuckle under and give him exactly what he wants. anybody who stands for something, like john mccain. president trump just, he won't let it go. we won't let go of his grudge against the late senator and war hero who died of brain cancer in late august. but the president doubled down again today after blaming mccain with blatantly false race tweets over the weekend. >> very unhappy that he didn't repeal and replace obamacare, as you know. he campaigned on repealing and replacing obamacare for years. and then he got to a vote and he said, thumbs down. and our country would have saved $1 trillion and we would have had great health care. so he campaigned. he told us hours before that he was going to repeal and replace. and for some time, i think i understand the reason, he ended up going thumbs up. and frankly, had we even known that, i think we would have gotten the vote, because we could have gotten someone else.
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so i think that's disgraceful. plus, there were other things. i was never a fan of john mccain and any further will be. >> just let it go, man. the reason i say that is because, i need to remind you, the senator's "no" vote on repealing obamacare was in july of 2017. that was two and a half years ago. the president still can't let go of it. even after the senator's death. and in response to his accusation that mccain misled him about his vote, a former mccain aide today said the president is lying. it's also clear this was never all about obamacare. donald trump made no secret of his hatred for john mccain. who can forget this during the campaign. >> he's not a war hero. >> he's a war hero! >> he's a war hero because he was captured! i like people that weren't captured. >> yeah, i should say it's almost two years ago, not two and a half years ago. but listen, all of that is bad enough. but we also know, when this
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president speaks or when the president tweets, people listen. the senator's widow, cindy mccain, posting an attack from someone on facebook messenger, a brutal hate-filled attack on her husband. mrs. mccain tweeting sarcastically, i want to make sure all of you could see how kind and loving a stranger can be. so we're blurring the worst expletive from that message. but what's left is pretty disgusting. take a look at your screen. and i warn you, it's just as difficult to listen to as for me to read it. i wish we didn't have to talk about this kind of thing, but mrs. mccain is right. this kind of hatred needs to be called out openly. the message, and this is a quote. "your husband was a traitorous piece of warmongering shit and i'm glad he's dead. hope your mrs. piggy-looking daughter chokes to death on the next burger she stuffs down her
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fat neck, too. c-word." disgusting. pure hatred for a man and for his family. so let me just take this opportunity right now to apologize to the mccain family, to send support to mrs. mccain and to meghan and to their entire family. they should not have to deal with this. we don't know anything about the woman who posted that, but i think we can all agree that it is unacceptable. that as the president took aim at another enemy today, george conway, after kellyanne conway's husband tweeted the definition of narcissistic personality disorder, suggesting that the president shows the symptoms. trump's response. quote, a total loser, while retweeting the claim that conway was angry because trump refused to give him a job, not to mention the claim that the president doesn't know conway. well, george conway shot down all of that in an interview with
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"the washington post" today and offered quite an explanation for why he's been tweeting about trump. and here's the quote. the mendacity, the incompetence is just maddening to watch. the tweeting is just the way to get it out of the way so i can get it off my chest and move on with my life that day. that's basically it. frankly, it's so i don't end up screaming at her about it. her meaning his wife, counselor to the president, kellyanne conway. yikes, the president went on to spin a new conspiracy theory today, claiming with no evidence that social media censors conservatives. >> it seems to be if they're conservative, if they're republicans, if they're in a certain group, there's discrimination, and big discrimination. so something's happening with those groups of folks that are running facebook and google and twitter. and i do think we have to get to the bottom of it. it's very fair. it's collusive and it's very, very fair to say that we have to
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do something about it. and if we don't, you know, the incredible thing is that we can win an election and we have such a stacked deck. and that includes networks, frankly. you look at what's happening with the networks and look at what's happening with different shows and it's hard to believe we win. >> his campaign manager says they're going to use social media, it's going to be their biggest way that they're going to win the election. the guy's always on twitter. it's hard to believe that this president, the president of the united states who communicates with millions of people anytime he feels like i want feels like he's been censored or discriminated against? you know who else might agree with president trump? brazil's president? president trump and bolsonaro, bonding today over their attacks on the media. >> may i say that brazil and the united states stand side by side in their efforts to assure
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liberties with respect to traditional family lifestyles, with respect to god, our creator, whether it's gender inequality, politically correct, and to fake news. >> this is the guy the president is palling around with. you heard him there, talking about traditional family lifestyles and gender ideologies. he's also known for saying, this was in 2013, that he would rather have a son who's an addict than a son who is gay, and saying he was quote proud to be homophobic. you also heard him there railing against politically correct attitudes and against news he doesn't like. but none of that dimmed president trump's enthusiasm for the man known as a trump of the tropics. you know how the president loves a good nickname? what he doesn't love, anybody who crosses him. but attacks on his perceived enemies, like john mccain, are the shiny objects designed to
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deflect and distract you from, hmm, let me see. what could it be? oh, yeah, the mueller investigation, the sdny investigation, the multiple congressional investigations. all of the president's investigations. wonder what he doesn't want you to know? think about that. let's discuss now. frank bruni is here. laura coates, michael deantonio, the author of "the truth about trump." good evening, guys. we have a lot to talk about. i just want to say, why can't he just let this go with john mccain? it is really just underneath the dignity of any human being. it's vile. >> well, this is the complaint of a fraudster relating to an authentic american hero. so mccain is the genuine article. he's a man who achieved at the highest levels by playing by the rules, by treating people well,
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by being decent and dignified. donald trump is an undignified wretched man. and this is the kind of thing that a wretched man will say about a man of grace. he resents him. >> i wanted to get that out of the way. we'll talk much more about this. laura, rod rosenstein is announcing as longer than planned to act as a heat shield if there's fallout from the mueller report. who's he trying to protect? is he trying to protect someone? >> i think he's trying to protect the integrity of the investigation. remember, when you've heard rod rosenstein speak about the invasi investigation, even when he's giving press conferences that go along with the release of different indictments, he says, the american people should feel secure and confident about the integrity of the investigation, that there's evidentiary support for what they're saying, and this is the counterargument for the witch hunt. he wants to be there as the mainstay to say, someone who was there all along who had a direct hand in having robert mueller
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there, you don't leave and fly the coupe when the pressure will now be on under the spotlight. i think he is trying to have that responsibility and the personal accountable. and frankly, it makes sense for the american people to have him there. >> he's flagging something very important when he says that. he's telling us all what we know, which is, there's going to be a furious pitched public relations battle when this report comes out. donald trump and his henchmen have spent the last year telling us, trying to delegitimize what the mueller investigation is doing, saying robert mueller is not to be trusted. i think rod rosenstein is saying, i'm going to stick around, because there's going to be a fight over the legitimacy and credibility of this report and i don't want to leave it to others. >> even beyond mueller, beyond that, a lot of other major figures here. they're all gone. it kind of makes, sense, for him, to see it through. don't you agree? >> exactly. a lot of people who started out are gone. we'll hear from them on shows like this and i think they'll defend the work that the department has done and they
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did. but we also know that the white house is going to go after this report, all guns blazing. they don't care if we -- they don't care if some americans lose faith in certain institutions. we've seen that since the beginning of this presidency. they care only about the political survival of donald trump, and that's what's going to guide their reaction to the report. >> but i do wonder if he is going to try to take the heat. that we'll get backlash or we'll actually have to take the heat on behalf of the attack coming from donald trump. that's going to be the curious point here. >> it may be both. >> people are going to see in it what they want. this president, michael, has attacked rod rosenstein many times. he's attacked the department of justice many times. him staying, does that give the president and the republicans a target of things if this report don't go their way? >> i think it does. but i think you're right people will see in the report what they want to see. and they're going to see in rosenstein's decision what they want to see. remember, he's the person who
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wrote the memo about firing james comey. and the president sure wanted a memo that would justify firing james comey. so in some ways, i think he's insulated himself from attacks. he's given one to one side and one to another side. i think he's tried to be an honest broker in all of this. and he hasn't been wildly wrong about any of it. so, you know, this is a guy who may have the most credibility of anybody in this process. >> yeah. of course, everyone's wondering, well, what's going to come out of this is impeachment, blah, blah, blah, blah. but nancy pelosi, frank, this is for you, once again talking about trump and impeachment. she said, you're waste ying you time unless the evidence is so conclusive that the republicans will understand otherwise, it is a gift to the president. we take our eye off the ball. do you think she's right? it's a gift to the -- >> i think she's 100% right. i think nancy pelosi has been right on this from the beginning. she's sticking with what she has always said. what she's saying is that the
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eye on the ball is getting trump out of office, limiting his time in the white house, making sure it's one term, one and done. and she's saying that impeachment may actually get in the way of that. that you can't get the political repercussions of impeachment. that it may actually help him. so she's saying, let's go with what is probably the surer bet, less injurious to the country. let us put all of our energy in the campaign of 2020 and let the voters get him out of office. then there will be fewer questions about the legitimacy of it and the nation will be in better shape if it happens at the ballot box. >> there's a caveat, she did leave herself some way out or some wiggle room here, she said, unless the evidence is so conclusive that the republicans will understand. so there could be something that's so, maybe she thinks devastating in the mueller report or sdny report that causes that to happen? >> the key of that statement is, that makes the republicans understand. because she knows that impeachment is a political process. it's also a popularity contest. because unless he is a less
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popular president of the united states, the republicans will not want to re-hash what happened with newt gingrich or in the clinton years. they are very well aware that the popularity, if it's a popular president, and they undergo impeachment, it will inure the benefit of the person who's actually the incumbent. they don't want that to happen. if you're the republicans, unless there's something that says that the american people believe overwhelmingly that he should be less popular and therefore open the door for impeachment, pelosi is right on the political front, why it would be a dramatic waste of time, particularly because we're talking about 2020 in the election cycle, really in the sights of many people right now. so perhaps a political process and solution for someone who is not seen as a legitimate president would be to vote him out. >> but i interviewed people from her party and they're like, impeach, impeach, impeach, we need to start it now because there's definitely something wrong. so you think she's doing the smart thing. she's still going against -- >> but impeach doesn't mean getting him out.
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everyone keeps forgetting, impeachment only kicks it to the senate where he still has to be convicted. and i think nancy pelosi, one of the best vote countering in the history of the senate, is looking over and saying, we wouldn't get him out. stick around, everyone. i want to talk about the president's never-ending grudge match with senator john mccain and why one of the late senator's aides says the president is lying. to make you everybody else... ♪ ♪ means to fight the hardest battle, which any human being can fight and never stop. does this sound dismal? it isn't. ♪ ♪ it's the most wonderful life on earth. ♪ ♪ it's the most ♪ 'cos i know what it means
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top of the show, the president doubling down on his feud with john mccain today, nearly seven months after the senator's death, telling reporters that he was never a fan and never will be. back now with frank bruni, laura coates and michael deantonio. it's almost too hard to believe, don't you think? why can't he just let this go? >> i mean, i think michael alluded to it earlier. i think he is extremely threatened by john mccain, even in death. let's back up for a second and say, two years into this presidency, i still can't believe that we're talking about the president's attacks on a dead war hero. whatever happened to don't speak ill of the dead? i think john mccain from the very beginning has threatened donald trump, because he has all of these attributes and represents all of these things that donald trump deep inside knows he is not. john mccain served in vietnam and was a prisoner of war and never broke over years of torture and other things. donald trump had bone spurs, right? john mccain was a creature of convictions many of which never wavered. donald trump is a creature of
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ideological and political convenience. i also think one of the things people are forgetting to mention and remember is in mccain's final years, he gave a couple of speeches in which he really was very, very kind of harsh, i think appropriately so, about donald trump, steve bannon and their sort of ethnonationalism. i think donald trump knew that happened, felt demeaned by it, and i think he carries grudges. >> you didn't have to agree with john mccain politically to know he was a classy man and he deserved everything that comes along with being a war hero for what happened during vietnam. and so i just think that, you know, it's -- >> you've got to remember he considered hiv his vietnam. this is donald trump. and he was a pretend soldier at a military economy when john mccain was a real fighter pilot. so this is just a crazy comparison. >> bone spurs! >> and i think trump understands it. >> just go back to the funeral.
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don't you remember how john mccain's and how donald trump was approaching it, the idea of them not having the handshakes, the idea that all the former presidents and first ladies were there to show their particular commitment and adoration for john mccain and the way that the media covered it. if you're looking at donald trump, i bet he wonders, as everyone wonders about their own mortality, looking ahead, what his legacy will be. it will not be the same as what john mccain had that day. that must get under his skin. >> so the president lashed out at someone else today, george conway, calling him a total loser. we know he's the husband of kellyanne conway. he says it's a badge of honor to be attacked by fthe president. here's what he told "the washington post." he said, the mendacity, the incompetence, it's just maddening to watch. you say that this fight, frank, illustrates a larger fight with republicans? >> one of the -- there are many fascinating things about this
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but one of the things that's fascinating is kellyanne and george conway perfectly illustrate the two forks in the conservative party and the republican movement. there are people like kellyanne who have surrendered completely, and then there are the george conways who are not only not surrendering, but are enraged to what donald trump is doing to the name of conservatism and what he's doing to the country. and when he says he's got to tweet this out and vent his anger, i think he's speaking for a great number of americans. >> can you imagine having that? imagine how many people feel about this president, but you go home at night to the person who's actually working for and advising that president. >> what goes on in that house? >> one of the worst things in this whole episode is brad parscale and the president both calling him mr. kellyanne conway. so this is a sexist trope. and it's also, let's emasculate
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by calling him, what? the worst thing in the world. don't you think there are millions of american women who recognize what that was? and millions of men whose wives are accomplished and active and respect them, too. it just moved that they're stuck in some ancient era where they don't offer respect for anybody. >> meet the flintstones. >> it's unbelievable. >> all right. so, kelly told "the washington post" that the president calling him a total loser, laura, this is for you, is a perfect example of the point i was trying to make. he can't concern himself with affairs of state. he's more concerned about what people say about him and waging little battles with everyone and everything. does this sound like the president to you? >> yeah. and also the lack of priorities. this is someone who's been punching and lashing out auto weekend long when you have international issues, including massacres at an allied country. you have decisions and things that are happening here domestically that need attention. and the president of the united states doesn't need to be concerned with those things.
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he's more concerned with who doesn't like him and his popularity. but i think there is a method to what is an obvious madness. and that is, remember, if impeachment is tied to popularity, he's got to remain popular. if he's losing mouthpieces on fox news like judge janine piero, who are able to be his staunch advocates, as his actual white house counselors are. if he's losing that particular battle as well, he has to use the one form he has left, this multi-million number of followers that he has. i think that's the method. but it does not at all behoove somebody who's supposed to be the president of the united states, who frankly has a sword of damocles in the mueller probe coming at him every single day. i'm not sure why he's focused on george conway. it must be escapism. >> i think it's an important if we can get it in quickly. according to the "washington post," kellyanne conway told people that she and the president think her husband is jealous of her and that she has been kept at a prominent place in the administration, so the president can protect her.
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>> wow. you know, this proves that kellyanne is just as distorted in her thinking as the president. who talks this way? i really don't think normal people have this conversation. so we now have a president who also is now the notorious individual number one, who should be worried about what came out in the papers that were released related to michael cohen today. and individual one junior, his son, is also threatened by this. >> notorious you said, right? >> the notorious bic, birther in chief. >> it's unbelievable. and i think laura is right. this is him distracting himself. >> whatever happened to, look, honey, when you get home tonight, you've got to stop it. you're causing problems at work. just don't do it anymore. i don't know. that's crazy. >> that's not how it works in my house. >> thank you, all, i appreciate it. robert mueller has been investigating michael cohen for a lot longer than we knew, all right?
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two big developments in the russia investigation. a report tonight there's the news that rod rosenstein will be staying on at the justice department longer than expected. a source telling cnn, he wants to be a heat shield if there's fallout over the mueller report. also today, hundreds of pages of search warrant documents for michael cohen released, showing that cohen was an early target of mueller's investigation. prosecutors looking at years of cohen's e-mails and other data from the time he worked for trump. let's discuss. the former acting solicitor general is here, neal katyal.
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thank you so much for joining us, sir. i really appreciate it. i want to ask you about the deputy ag rod rosenstein. because you wrote the special counsel regulations. rosenstein had been planning to leave the doj mid-march, but now a source is telling cnn he's going to stick around until the mueller report drops, saying he wants to be the heat shield, as i said. if there's fallout from this report, what does that say to you about the reaction that we'll see when mueller finishes his report. >> well, it's very hard to note, don. rod rosenstein is one of the few people in this administration who is competent and who's pretty much like someone who actually doesn't break laws and is not himself under criminal investigations. so he's already a distinguished man in that regard. and the idea that he's staying, i think, could mean reactions, you know, he's worried about reactions on either side. i don't think it tells us one thing or the other. i do think, though, the other thing you pointed to today about the release of the michael cohen
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documents really does underscore something that i think some of us have been trying to say, which is, there are a bunch of different investigations going on. mueller began his investigation by focusing on russia and conspiracy and whether or not there was an obstruction of justice when comey was fired. that's different from the southern district investigation going on at a campaign finance, fraud, and things like that. >> neal, i want to put this up. listen, there are almost 20 pages of redactions related to the hush money payment made on behalf of president trump. look at that there. how worried should the president be about this? by the way, this is a massive document dump today. but go on. >> yeah, i think the president should be, i think the legal term is, freaking out. you know, there is very, very, you know, what i think these documents show is that the investigation is ongoing. that's why there are all of these redactions. and remember, back in november, these prosecutors in the southern district of new york said individual number one,
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which we all know now is donald trump, ordered the commission of federal felonies, these campaign finance violations. so you put these two things together and boy, that looks really bad and it looks really bad for trump apart from the mueller report. the mueller report is not likely to get into any of this stuff. that's a separate investigation. >> yeah. i want to put a timeline up of the investigation into michael cohen, put it on the screen now. you can see that mueller was appointed special counsel, this was in may of 2017. and we're learning in these docs that just two months later he had already begun targeted michael cohen. they really focused in on him almost instantaneously, didn't they? >> yeah, exactly. and i'm so glad you made that point, don. because it's two months later. remember, mueller's mandate from rosenstein is only to investigate russia and obstruction of justice from the firing of comey. and somehow moenmichael cohen g on their radar really quickly and they even get a search
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warrant just two months into the mueller investigation, asking for access to his g-mail and the like. so it's possible that federal investigators for months were monitoring michael cohen's transmissions and stuff before anything about the raid on his apartment and the like. >> so when you look at how much mueller had, cohen's e-mails going back to the same month that trump declared he was running for president, mueller is tracking his phone calls before the fbi conducted multiple raids. investigators also used a device caused a trigger fish to figure out which hotel room he was in. the links that they went to, what does this say for others being investigated? someone like roger stone? >> yeah, it shows really the thoroughness and professionalism of both mueller and the southern district separate investigations. you might remember when michael cohen's office was raided, president trump and his lawyer, rudy giuliani, freaked out,
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calling them storm troopers, saying this was lawless and the like. and anyone reading the documents today, i think, comes away thinking, god, how irresponsible was it of the president and giuliani to say those things? because here you've got just, you know, just page after page of thorough information debunking that. and the idea that our president, bho who's in charge of standing up for law enforcement would say such things is totally outrageous. >> neal, thank you for your time. see you soon. >> thank you. elizabeth warren is calling for an ento td to the electoral college. why elections were set up this way to begin, and if it's actually working the way it's supposed to. that's next. constipation and belly pain talk to your doctor and say yesss! to linzess. ♪ ♪ yesss! linzess treats adults with ibs with constipation or chronic constipation.
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nick's mom called the t-ball league eight times to help her shy son make some new friends. his parents shared videos of highlights, dance moves, and jimmy carlyle stealing third... almost. they sent seven texts when a new friend invited nick for a play date. but in the end, they put their phones down, and watched as nick finally felt part of the team. [indistinct conversation] [friend] i've never seen that before. ♪ ♪ i have... ♪
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2020 democratic hopefuls are talking about the electoral college. some want a discussion about the
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process, but others want it eliminated. >> my view is that every vote matters. that means, get rid of the electoral college. >> one thing i believe is that in an american presidential election, the person who gets the most votes ought to be the person who wins. >> i would try to get one person, one vote and get rid of the electoral college. >> there are things about the electoral college i just don't like and think are undemocratic. >> you had an election in 2016 where the loser got 3 million more votes than the victor. it puts some states out of play altogether. >> look, it is pretty unlikely that the electoral college is going anywhere before the 2020 election. but questions about whether or not the system is fair, those questions are heating up with the election looming. here to discuss is van newkicrk and matt lewis. this is a very important conversation, so thank you for joining us. vann, democrats have won the popular vote in four of the last
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five presidential elections, going back to 2000, democrats have lost the presidency three times. but those are truhe rules and ty have been since the founders. the are democrats wrong to try to change that? >> i think if you look at the democrats' argument, which is that the popular vote for several elections now, they've gone out and won most of the people in this country and haven't won the presidency. that's a valid argument. and i think if you brought that argument back to the founders, to the framers, and said, you would have a country in which the popular vote would multiple times in a row be lost -- and probably will in the future, be won and then lose the president, i think that's an argument for changing the system. currently you see right now, the system incentivizes campaigning in a couple small states and going after the swings and doing the same stops in the same places and not listening people
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like black voters in the mississippi delta or the alabama black belt. so you have all of these places that get an inin ordordinate amf attention and they determine the president. >> the president just tweeted out about the electoral college. he says, campaigning for the popular vote is much easier and campaigning for the electoral college. it's like training for the 100-yard dash versus a marathon. the brilliance of the electoral college, you must go to many states to win. with the popular vote, you go to just the large states, the cities would end up running the country. smaller states and the entire midwest would end up losing all power. and we can't let that happen. i used to like the idea of the popular vote, but now realize the electoral college is far better than turhe usa. sounds like he had some help, in my opinion, writing that, but doesn't he have a point, van? >> so i want to give you some real numbers? four of the most urban states in this country are texas, nevada, utah, and florida.
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those are republican state. it's not that necessarily i think the electoral college speaks for rural voters, it speaks for people in the midwest, it speaks for some folks in wyoming and in montana, where they have really small populations. it doesn't speak to rural people in georgia, rural black folks in georgia and alabama and mississippi. and it doesn't speak for rural californians who tend to be conservative. so i don't think that argument really holds water, and i think if you look at how statewide candidates already campaign in places they don't have electoral college in senate races, and they campaign across all the states. >> okay. matt, i want to bring you in now. instead of setting up a presidential election system through direct democracy, the nation's founders established the electoral college, in part to ensure that the entire nation has a more equal say in choosing of a national president. do you think this, the process is still equal? >> well, look, i think the
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founders actually never wanted a direct democracy. they actually feared a direct democracy for a couple of reasons. one, they looked to greece and had seen how direct democracy actually didn't work. they created a republic. and the vision of the electoral college isn't just to give smaller states a buy-in, a reason to join the union, it was also to basically stop demagogues who might be swept into office by the emotions and the support of the american public. the founders did not trust the average person, so it was kind of an elite system, if you read -- >> doesn't sound like it worked in this case. >> if you read alexandrer hamilton in '68, he wanted each state to have prominent candidates who would be voting for electors. and if that system were still in
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place, one could imagine a scenario where they would have stopped donald trump in 2016. >> that's what i said, it didn't work in this case. i think van brings up a good point, i'm quoting from an article talking about the founders. they wanted a government to ensure the well-being of citizens while protecting against tyranny of the majority, otherwise known as mob rule. by doing this, they limited direct democracy, by limit manager people from voting. women, slave, and by creating the electoral college to elect our president. only one of these limitations, the electoral college, remains and it is time to abolish it. my question is, is that a fair point? that's the only one that remains, matt. and it did limit women, people of color. >> right. i feel like the electoral college is a good thing that we should keep. you know part of the reason that i have been critical of donald trump is the erosion of norms
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and institutions. for example, i opposed his emergency order. and i think it's interesting to me that democrats now, rather than trying to be the party that's standing up for norms and institutions, they're talking about things like packing the supreme court and now getting rid of the electoral college. there have been actually five times in history where the person who won the presidency didn't win the popular vote. this is how the founders intended. and by the way, alexander hamilton, who a lot of us are fans of now, driving around listening to the hamilton musical soundtrack was probably the biggest proponent of the electoral college. as a conservative, i am hesitant to change something fundamental. by the way, the last point i would make is that the electoral college wasn't -- it wasn't like it was going to be the popular vote and then the electoral college was the compromise. the original, the virginia plan,
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the original idea was for congress to actually pick the president. this was a liberal, democratic alternative. >> that was a long time ago, though, matt. i've got to get van in, and i'm really over time here. so, listen, isn't there a danger here? remember what happened with l d harry reid and the nuclear option and now all of a sudden democrats are on the bad end of that. >> yeah, i think right now, democrats are juggling a bunch of different big ideas as to how to change the shape of democracy and policy. and they basically realize, if they win all three, the house, the senate, and the presidency in 2020, they have four years to make the change they want. and they have to think big.
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i think the big thing here, gerrymandering is something that really needs to be looked at. thank you both. appreciate your time. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back. the way they subscribe to movies. we don't follow the naysayers. ♪ ♪ ♪ 'cos i know what it means ♪ to walk along the lonely street of dreams ♪ ♪ here i go again on my--- you realize your vows are a whitesnake song? i do. if you ride, you get it. geico motorcycle. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more. there are healthy snacks, there are tasty snacks, and then there are kind bars. made with ingredients you know and love. like whole nuts, real fruit
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try babbel free today, go to babbel.com or download the app. conventional wisdom says you can't make a 400 horsepower sedan, that's also environmentally conscious. we don't follow conventional wisdom. ♪ ♪ a new 2020 cnn poll shows an 8 point jump in support for california senator kamala harris. putting her in double digit territory. former vice president joe biden leads the poll right there. followed by vermont senator bernie sanders. there's no doubt the race is starting to heat up. let's talk about it. van jones is here and alice
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stuart. huge jump for kamala harris. what do you think of the momentum? >> i think she's catching fire and it makes sense. when she first came out she had the most disciplined rollout of all the candidates even to this date. but she got kind of like this counter fire online by people saying she was bad on criminal justice and all sorts of stuff. i think it artificially lowered her national appeal. i think she's finally shaken that stuff off. and the rael teis a lot of people who like a hillary clinton, who like a strong woman could like her. a lot of people who like a barack obama could like her. i think she's nationally starting to gather that coalition around her. >> i think you're right. i don't think that's a bad thing. get it out of the way, address it, move on. she's gone through the fire and now she can take on -- and that's what happens when you run for president. >> when you run for president you have good days and bad days and she weathered the storm.
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>> there could be more to come. what did you have to say, alice? >> i think she did a tremendous job in the cnn town hall. she was able to answer some of the questions looming out there with her job she had in the past with regard to the legal community. but she had the power to connect, right on the policy and very personalable. and those are three key things you have to do. and in the poll that came out, she has risen in key demographics with regard to women, minorities and cell identified liberals. so these are key. but it's very early in the game. keep in mind we're 595 days out of the election. this time in the 2016 election -- >> scott walker. >> scott walker and jeb bush were tie fd for the lead. >> it was july of 2015. listen, for the interest of time i've got to move on.
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because i want to talk about joe biden. joe biden is at the top of the poll. people close to him are saying the announcement is imminent. he is an entity, a known epty. if he announces, van, will his numbers go occupy or is he at a ceiling? >> i think his numbers go up initially. i think a lot of people, you know, they miss the obama days. they love joe biden for being such a loyal and strong soldier for obama and a good friend. i think he'll be rewarded with a bounce, and then, you know, you've got a lot of people that will start nibbling at him. what about this gap, what about this gap. the guy has been in office since moses. i think you're going to see a real enthusiasm for joe biden. >> i think the best joe biden moment is when he mistakenly almost announced his candidacy. people like that's just joe. let's talk about another poll.
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57% of self-identified republicans say that they are extremely enthusiastic about voting for president outnumbering 46% among democrats. is that because they know exactly who their candidate is and the democrats rights now have no idea? >> that's a big part of it right now. there's a lot of enthusiasm in the republican party behind donald trump. he's got 97% approval rating amongst republicans. so, yes, certainly that motivates people. but nothing like a kick in the rear in the mid-term elections to motivate republicans. and look, weave to get engaged, motivated, people out to the polls or we're not only in fear of losing more strength in the house and senate but potentially in the white house. so republicans are motivated. they're energized. they're ready to go out there and not just put a vote in there for donald trump but certainly down ballot and the fact that right now the democrats are so
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far to the left and continue to move further to the left, that right there shows that's not the direction republicans want to go in, so that's certainly getting them energized. >> anyone making any predictions on the democratic side? >> my money's on joe biden. >> your money's on joe biden. >> duke. i'm for duke. >> i'm saying that there's going to be -- president trump is going to run against a democrat in 2020. that's what i say. a republican is going to run against a democrat. >> other than that, no comment. >> democrats need to find someone a little bit more moderating voice i would say like joe biden. >> don't miss van jones show only here on cnn. it's called the van jones show, by the way. we'll be right back. i hear it in the background and she's watching too, saying
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