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tv   At This Hour With Kate Bolduan  CNN  April 16, 2019 8:00am-9:00am PDT

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i think they still have these strongly held beliefs but they're willing to maybe push them aside or downplay them to get trump to push the economic message they want. >> now the question is, will the president be able to sort of look and push these aside and continue to support them. andrew, thank you for being here. we appreciate it. and thank you for joining us. i'm ana cabrera. "at this hour" starts now. hello, everyone. i'm kate bolduan. thank you for joining me. it survived plagues, a revolution, the nazis, and more. over nearly nine centuries and in just hours, it was almost destroyed. french officials there now assessing the damage from the fire that raged through notre dame cathedral in paris. and a horrified crowd there left to do nothing but stand by and watch as the cathedral's iconic
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spire toppled in the flames. this morning, the flames are out. the roof is gone. but some glimmers of hope. the cathedral's stone structure, it has been saved. along with religious relics and many works of art. they have also been saved. when you see the images, it is very easy to understand that it will take a herculean effort to rebuild this iconic structure. already, hundreds of millions of dollars have been pledged, coming in from around the world. melissa bell is outside the cathedral with the latest. melissa, i was so struck yesterday listening to you essentially narrate as this went by minute by minute, the flames growing larger. the crowds growing bigger. and everyone standing by, just watching this play out. what is happening there today? >> that's right, kate. there was a sense that paris watched this happen live, in real time, in real life, since so many thousands of people had gathered around to watch what
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was happening. all that emotion again this morning for the people who have come back here and have spent the day here assessing that damage, trying to figure out what's happening. on the question of the emotion, at 6:50 p.m. local time, so just over an hour and 50 minutes, cathedrals across france are going to be ringing their bells to mark the moment when the fire broke out. let me show you the iconic facade behind me. you can see the doorway, there are people there. there have been religious leaders, people of the protestant faith, the jewish, the muslims as well, have made their way to the entrance, not able to go inside because it's not safe for anyone other than firefighters, even as the work continues. you can see the crane there. we have been watching firemen milling around the front of the edifice throughout the day, kate, and they're trying to get to the bottom of how structurally sound the edifice is. the news is fairly good, much better than it might have been, but they're also trying to establish what started this extraordinarily intense fire that destroyed so much of the
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woodwork in particular, those old beams, some of them 12th century oaks that were at the very top of the structure. that's where we believe the fire began. we don't know why yet. >> and you're also getting more information kind of on the timeframe, melissa, and how firefighters in paris responded. can you walk us through that? >> that's right, kate. we understand a fire alarm first rang out at 6:20 p.m. the building was evacuated. hence the fact this has not been a human catastrophe as well as an architectural one. there was no fire detected. it was not until 23 minutes later at 6:43 that a second fire alarm rang out. this time, the fire bregade came in because fire had been detected. then, of course, so much time was lost because of the difficulty for the fire services, for the emergency crews, of getting here in rush hour. we are in the heart of historic paris. it was rush hour. those crowds had gathered around, drawn by that black
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smoke, drawn by the spectacular flames that were coming out of the roof of notre dame. so very difficult for crews to get to it. of course, the importance was trying to protect the structure as much as possible. an incredibly difficult task for emergency services and they have proven to be the heroes in all this, and tributes have been coming through all day from politicians and ordinary parisians alike. >> also pouring in are pledges to help with the rebuilding. what's the latest on all the pledges coming in to help with the effort? >> so much money already has been promised, kate. we're looking at the figures and compiling them. we reckon over $600 million has already been pledged. this by some of france's best known industrialists, some of its largest and wealthiest families, its most famous corporate names. tomorrow, there will be an official launching of a fund-raising drive that will be launched by the french president himself. let's be clear. however fast the money is coming in, kate, this is a
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reconstruction effort that is going to cost billions, and it could, say the experts, take decades. >> wow. melissa, thank you so much for being there and your continued reporting. we really appreciate it. >> joining me right now with much more on this is caroline, an art historian who spent years studying the gothic architecture of the cathedral. she's a professor emeritus of art history at duke university. thank you for being here. i really appreciate it. >> nice to be here. thank you. >> thank you. you have studied the construction of the cathedral for decades. you were up, i saw that you said you were up actually in that scaffolding when the cathedral was undergoing work in the late '70s and early '80s. i want to show our viewers some of what i really thought was some of the most startling video and pictures of really basically the entire roof engulfed in flames yesterday at one point. we'll pull that up and be able
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to show our viewers so they can see. i know you have seen these pictures as well. so startling to see how massive and extensive the flames were. when you saw that, what does it mean for the extent of damage to the structure there? >> well, let me say that what the tourists or the visitor to the cathedral does not see is the extraordinary wooden structure that supports the roof. and there is a space about 50 to 60 feet, depending on the building, between the top of the vaults and the roof that is like a forest of wood, and that wood, as you mentioned before, is old. often oak. it's been there, baking in the summer, freezing in the winter, for centuries. so it is like a tinder box. it is ready to burn, and that fire, which was so horrifying and heartbreaking, was really making their point. you know, the top of a cathedral is very vulnerable. to lightning, to electrical
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failure, to any number of things. >> yeah. stick with me, caroline, because i think joining this conversation is also michel, the president of friends of notre dame of paris, a foundation dedicated to fund-raising and raising funds for the cathedral's renovation efforts and reconstruction efforts. that was, of course, all before yesterday. thank you so much for being here as well. i wanted to ask you, knowing how devastating the fire was, but also how many of the priceless relics and works of art have been saved, are you more saddened or more relieved today? it's kate bolduan. can you hear me? i think we might have the wrong connection with the wrong camera.
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caroline, apologies for that. let's continue our conversation, as we were talking about all of the extensive studying you have done when it comes to this construction. i do wonder what your kind of general impression was when you saw the images and kind of as melissa bell was saying, we all watched this play out live. >> yeah. well, horror. horror and amazement, of course. not only my own but everybody who happened to see the images as they were ongoing. and of course, huge fear as to whether the fire could be contained because of its difficult position, because we're well over 100 feet up, and many narrow streets that prevent fire engines from coming close. so i think from the photos i saw this morning that we're cautiously lucky. it will take probably many, many weeks before the damage can be assessed, and that's to many different parts of the building.
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the glass, the furniture, the sculpture, as well as the stone walls. i don't know if you know that stone is damaged by fire. >> that's something a lot of people miss. it's not just wood. the stone could be damaged as well. please go ahead. >> that's right, so the upper walls or surfaces of the vaults, which i think are still in a very fragile condition because they have been badly burned from the upper side, and that is potentially dangerous and potentially will lead to some collapses. >> do you think that it can be rebuilt to look exactly as it was before? obviously, that, of course, would be the goal, but do you think it can be? >> well, let me tell you this. a cathedral like notre dame has been as it were renegotiated on many occasions, and one of the most important of those was in the middle of the 19th century under the famous architect,
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starting in about 1850. he rebuilt large parts of that building. so the question is, which past are we going to return to? are we going to restore the iconic qualities of his cathedral, and i hope we will, but do we go back before him and restore the building back to something more like its 12th or 13th century appearance? these are complicated and even philosophical questions about what we do when we restore a building. >> do you think this is something of a wake-up call for other historic cathedrals, other historic monuments like this, you know, to bolster or improve fire prevention systems within? i don't even know if that's possible. >> well, i hope so. every cathedral has a wooden structure above the vaults, and as i said, those are so vulnerable. i would hope that every cathedral or big building would review its fire prevention measures to make sure that if
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something should happen, i imagine here it was an electrical connection of some kind because they were removing statues from the spire last week. i hope everyone will check their protection systems. >> yeah. why do you think, caroline, this tragic fire has been met with such an emotional outpouring the world over? >> yeah. well, you know, notre dame is in such a spectacular picturesque building in the middle of the symbol of paris, the symbol of france. it has a major role in 19th century literature thanks to victor hugo's extraordinary novel, which we know in english as the hunchback of notre dame. that book really stimulated the rescue and restoration of medieval buildings after the french revolution. so this building is iconic in
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every sense of the word. profoundly important for our identity, i would say, in western caulture, not only in france but everywhere in the world. >> thank you so much for joining me. great to have you. >> thank you. bye-bye. >> we'll have much more on the story and the renovation coming up ahead. plus this. bracing for the mueller report. it is coming. it is coming this thursday, they say, and white house officials tell cnn what they're concerned about and what they're not concerned about at all. plus, it is not just the parents. now we're learning that some of the students of the parents charged in the massive college cheating scandal are reportedly being targeted by investigators. stay with us. ♪
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just days to go. two days to go, to be exact, before the justice department releases the long awaited mueller report. at li as much as the attorney general has decided that the public can see. rainbow colored redactions and all. and even before then, the white house is preparing its response and saying they're confident that no matter how much is released, there is one thing they for not worried about, public opinion. why is that? where is that confidence coming from? sarah westwood is joining me with much more on this. how is the president's team preparing for the report's release? what are you hearing? >> kate, white house officials are hoping public opinion that crystallized around attorney general bill barr's summary of the report, according to barr, that mueller found no evidence of collusion, and according to barr, he saw insufficient
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evidence of obstruction where barr drew no conclusion, but aides are worried the could give ammunition to congressional democrats who are investigating president trump, such as jerry nadler. emmet flood is going to lead the white house's response to this report, and that will depend heavily on the contents of mueller's findings that are still at this moment apparently unknown to the white house. our colleague, pam brown, reports flood will also be the one briefing president trump after he's had a chance to get a feel for what's going to be in this report. president trump has been talking about the mueller investigation, tweeting more than a half dozen times in the past couple days leading up, focusing on barr's summary. you can expect, kate, to see white house allies downplay any new evidence that comes out when this report is released as mere footnotes to the positive, favorable letter from barr suggesting no collusion and in barr's findings, no obstruction. >> stand by to stand by. this time, i really mean it. thank you. >> the wait for the mueller report is not slowing
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congressional efforts to investigate president trump. house democrats have now issued subpoenas to several banks and financial institutions connected to trump, including deutsche bank, jpmorgan chase, citigroup, and an accounting firm that once works with the trump family. joining me now, democratic congressman bill pascrell of new jersey. he sits on the tax writing committee. >> honor to be here. >> let's start with the mueller report. we now have a date certain, at least we think, things can always change, but it's going to be released on thursday. when it comes out, what is the first thing you'll be looking for? >> i would like to see how much is redacted. that will give me an idea or anyone else an idea as to what he was willing to put forth so that we know. the public should know this. democrats and republicans believe that this report should be made public. and when we say that, we don't mean every page blacked out. so we'll see on thursday. i think there's more here than meets the eye. i think we're going to be very
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surprised. a lot of people think, there is a summary, summaries are not intended to be the final note and it won't be. >> when it comes out, if the redactions, and i have heard this from many, if the redactions are just of grand jury material, which that seems to be what is of most concern to the justice department and beyond, if it's kept only to grand jury material, are you okay with that? >> i think we follow the law. the law is very specific. if you want to get grand jury information, it's impertinent to what you're investigating, that's one thing. you can't just go in willy-nilly and take anything you want and make it public. the law is very specific, 6103, about this, whether it's the taxes, which is another issue, or whether it's the mueller report. there's a way to do it. those committees are well tuned. jerry nadler knows what he's talking about. he's an attorney himself. he studied this very well, as well as elijah cummings from
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maryland. these guys know what they're doing. and i'm very proud of the way they have operated. they're not out to get anyone. they're out hopefully to bring the facts out to the public. >> i have heard you call bill barr trump's hand-picked bodyguard. >> yes. >> he has said he will work with the committees to get them more information after this comes out if needed. is the evidence that he has to this point inappropriately been withholding anything back from you guys when it comes to the mueller report? >> well, depends on how much he redacts, but his comment, his summary of what was done, he was not given the ability, kate, to say until the report came out, and he got it, that there was no instances of obstruction of justice. so he made the decision that there's no obstruction of justice. i don't know if he has that within his power, his authority.
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i'm very skeptical about that. i'm also very skeptical about us shoving away the possibilities of who did -- if there was collusion, if there was an investigation, if there was tampering into our elections, well, who did it? and who represented, if anybody, the administration? >> so you have many more questions. >> i do. >> i know you're absolutely decided, how confident are you you're going to get the see the president's taxes? >> very confident. >> this something you have been on and you reminded me with a letter you brought to show me since february of 2017. >> that's correct. i think that follow the money is my motto. no one has accused the president of anything, but let's put the facts on the table. every president since richard nixon, and what happened to him. he refused. they investigated. they found he owned half a million dollars. i want to know if somebody is
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paying their fair share like you and i have to. >> if mnuchin or the irs commissioner miss the next deadline neal has set next week, what's going to happen? >> well, i think the chairman neal has made it very clear he's not going home and taking his bat and glove. he's going to probably go to court, and there will probably be subpoenas. and i would look for contempt of congress. because he sent his letter to the commissioner of irs. he didn't send it to mr mr. mnuchin. mr. mnuchin has been answering and now we have the attorneys answering in writing to the legal part of the treasury department. i want to see what the irs that has never denied this request before, kate, why do it now? why are you stopping -- why are you obstructing justice? >> so i spoke with a reporter who has done a lot of investigative reporting, especially when it comes to the tax realm, and has won many
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awards on it, yesterday. he told me that the tax code says if people like the treasury secretary or the irs commissioner refuse to comply, because he says the law is so clear, that they actually, the tax code says they shall be removed from their jobs. do you think -- >> that's 7214. part of the quote. >> do you believe that is true, if they do not -- >> absolutely. >> -- produce the tax returns -- >> that's the law. >> you think the irs and steven mnuchin should be removed from their jobs. >> that's the law. that's the reason they don't want the commissioner to answer the question to the ir siren. they want mnuchin to answer it as the direct link to the administration, part of the executive. look, in five years ago, when they went after the head of the irs, ms. learner, if you remember that, and they investigated 50 individuals, in fact, 51, i believe, 50 individuals' tax returns because they were in a liberal organization. they thought the liberals were
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getting pumped up and the conservatives were being deflated. they found nothing. they exposed these names. they exposed the facts of their tax returns. and they didn't apologize when they found absolutely no collusion, as someone would say. in what they were doing. and you know what. they're hypocrites. i say it to their face. i don't wait until i get on television. >> and repeat it when you get on television. please come on after next week when this deadline is met or missed. because there's much more to come. thanks for coming on. really appreciate it. >> still ahead for us. as the investigation begins into how a fire almost destroyed notre dame, we're going to talk to a witness who said the cathedral was a disaster waiting to happen. we'll be right back.
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it was called operation varsity blues. the largest fbi investigation of this kind. 50 parents, college coaches, the ring leader, and college prep course employees, all implicated in the largest college admissions cheating scheme ever prosecuted in the united states. charged with everything from mail fraud to money laundering, racketeering, obstruction of justice, as they stand accused of cheating, bribing, and lying to get students into college. some of the students were in on it, and others were not. now, "the new york times" is reporting that some students of
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parents charged could also now be targets. but with the millions of dollars that changed hands and the serious charges these parents are facing, we're seeing very different legal strategies emerge. plea deal or no plea deal. that does seem to be the question, and a very real one right now. cnn's brynn gingras has been following this from the beginning and is joining me now. where do things stand with the parents? >> it literally changes every single day because there are communications going on between the government, between different sets of parents. but yes, basically, let's break it down for you as to where parents stand. we have 16 parents pleading not guilty. most of those parents, except for two of them, filed a formal letter essentially saying they understand the two conspiracy charges that are against them, one for fraud and one for money laundering and they want to tell the court they're going to plead not guilty. meaning they don't need to actually come into court to make that formal plea. we have 13 parents that are pleading guilty. that one, of course we know, as
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we talked about, has included felicity huffman. some of the parents issuing appa apolo apologies. and one parent as we are looking at the court paperwork, who is in talks with the government as to exactly, they're going to start making some deal. we do expect to see, again, more changes happening with this case as it continues. but let's break it down when it comes to the two actresses, of course, the two faces as it's come to with this college admissions scheme. felicity huffman, as we said, she pleaded guilty. she's accused of paying $15,000 to the key worldwide foundation which was a sham foundation started by rim singer, the mastermeantime behind all of this, to get her daughter, her oldest daughter's test scores boosted in order to facilitate her admission to a college. she did issue an apology, taking responsibility. she said her daughter had absolutely nothing to do with her part in the scam and she's facing a reduszed sentence. going on to lori loughlin, she's not pleading guilty. sources close to the actress say
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she intends to fight it in the court system as it stands now, but she's not publicly said much. really, at the court filing where she said she's not going to plead guilty, that's the only thing she's said and she'll face more time in prison if we get to a trial if she's found guilty of the charges. she's been dropped by the hallmark channel, her daughter has been dropped by major brands. a big deal. >> what about this news that some of the students in this could now be targeted for investigation? >> this is a new development that we're learning today. essentially what's happening is we're learning through "new york times" reporting that some of the students are receiving what are called target letters. they're learning they could be part of the criminal investigation probe. we don't know how many students are facing this at this point. we don't know if they actually will face charges. we know from the criminal complaint there were some students who possibly knew about what their parents were doing so therefore it's possible they could be facing charges which we have been hearing all along.
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>> a next chapter in this. and it's far from over. great to see you. thank you so much. >> all right, so much to discuss on this. joining me right now is julie lith caught hanes, a former dean at stanford university, author of "how to raise an adult" and also joining me, cnn legal analyst paul callan. thank you both for being here. paul, jumping off what was laid out, there's so much to this and so many people involved. take the example of lori loughlin and felicity huffman as she laid it out. loughlin and her husband are accused of paying $500,000 to get their two daughters into school. they went the route of saying they were recruited to row crew. they had never done that. felicity huffman paid $15,000 for someone to correct her daughter's s.a.t. scores. they're both -- they both have recorded phone calls, according to prosecutors, discussing the terms of their deals. they're charged with the same crimes. huffman pleads guilty and
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apologizes. loughlin and her husband plead not guilty and are fighting it. how do the two paths diverge so much? >> in a very substantial way, because of course, lori loughlin is facing many years in prison if she goes to trial and loses in this case, where felicity huffman has sort of a guarantee of a very light sentence by pleading guilty. but don't underestimate lori loughlin's strategy. she's represented by a top lawyer. this guy who represents her was the department of justice guy in charge of the enron investigation. so that was a big investigation involving complex financial crimes. he's obviously looked at this case and said you know something, the money laundering part of it, which pops it up to 20 years, is a weak case against her. and i will say, money laundering usually is a crime committed by professional criminals. you don't often see it committed by ordinary people. and in this case, the so-called fake charity that brin was
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talking about was certified by the irs as a legitimate charity. you have to go through certification process before you can list your foundation as a charity. that's going to be her defense, she'll say i contributed to a charity, and i thought it was a legitimate charity. maybe i understood i shouldn't be doing what i was doing, but i wasn't money laundering. >> fascinating. the tapes are barking in my head, but there are tapes. julie, let me ask you. there's the legal impact and also the impact on the kids here. huffman said this in her statement when she was -- when she pled guilty. she said my daughter knew absolutely nothing about my actions. and in my misguided and profoundly wrong way, i have betrayed her. we have heard nothing from lori loughlin and her husband -- we have heard nothing from lori loughlin, really, and definitely not heard anything about what her daughter knew or didn't know. what does this do to the kids? to the students? >> yeah, that was frankly my
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first thought, kate, when i first heard the news break, however many weeks ago, for the kids who are not complicit in the illegal behaviors, they had just woken up to this awful truth that their parents thought so little of their chances that they had to -- they felt the need to bribe other people to let them into school. this can be really damaging to a kid's sense of self. it's tremendously damaging to the parent/child relationship. i really am pleased to see that felicity huffman has really tried to take the high road in this circumstance by coming out with an apology and by, it sounds like, trying to really work on that aspect of, you know, her relationship with her kid and acknowledging that her kid had no idea and i think implicit in that statement is a parent's real fear and understanding about oh, my gosh, what have i just done to my child? >> absolutely. paul, talk to me, though. prosecutors say some of the students were in on it, others were not. now the fact there's this reporting there are target
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letters. what does that mean? >> a target letter goes out to somebody who may be charged with a crime. i think what prosecutors are saying here, they're using the kids as leverage against the parents to force guilty pleas. when prosecutors come to you and say if you don't plead guilty, we're coming after your child, and they're going to be indicted for complicity in the scam. that's a fearful thing, and a lot of pressure being put on these parents to plead guilty. >> and a terrifying thought. julie, all along the fbi has said that universities, the universities involved here were innocent and were also victims in this. i do wonder, though, and i want to get your take, why wasn't there more of, i don't know if you would call it a safety net or a backstop, to kind of catch this kind of a scam or fraud and these lies. i mean, from, i don't know, guidance counselors in high school all the way up to admissions officers for so many years? >> i think quite frankly it's because at institutions of higher education, people for the most part are behaving with
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tremendous integrity. my colleagues at stanford and their counterparts around the country trust in the admissios s office, trust that the adlethics department coaches are creating a list of people they're trying to recruit for the sport who have in fact played the sport and have the other credentials necessary to get in. so i think there's been tremendous collegial trust that everybody is trying to play the game correctly. and it may sound naive, but i think, you know, i don't think of it as naive. i think of it as people with high integrity who are assuming everyone around them is behaving the same way. i think this has really pulled back the curtain on very specific bad actors but i don't think it reflects poorly on the entire university or the entire admissions system. >> right. right. and it shouldn't as well. albeit a rude awakening for everybody involved in the process. go ahead, julie. >> i want to point out, for me,
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the second biggest issue is the tremendous disparity that this has revealed in terms of who's got access to the back door or the side door of the university. and who has to scrimp and save and work their tails off just to get their kids a decent education somewhere. i'm reminded of the case of a woman in ohio, a black woman named kelly williams bowler. she lived near housing projects, a working-class mom, had two kids, and she wanted them to get to a better public school. not college, but just k-12. her own father lived in a better district, so she fudged the zip code that her kids lived in. she sort of pretended they lived in her father's district so they could go to a better school. well, the state of ohio came after kelly williams bowler. the judge gave her five years in prison for having done that. fined her $30,000. now, the judge also convicted her of a felony. the judge suspended the sentence so she only served ten days in jail, but the felony conviction
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means this mother who was in the process of becoming a teacher herself now is barred from teaching in the state of ohio because they won't take someone convicted of a felony. there's a tremendous inequity. a woman who is working class just trying to get her kids a better public school education slammed by the judiciary system. we can only hope these wealthy parents are treated fairly in the system. if this black woman in ohio was treated fairly, let's hope the wealthy white folks who have all the many in the world to pay the right lawyers are going to see justice done to them and for them as well. >> an excellent point. julie, thank you so much for being here. paul, thank you so much. still ahead for us. the challenge to rebuild notre dame after that massive inferno. the flames still stun me to silence when i look at them. we'll talk to one guest who warned years ago that the cathedral was falling apart and reported on it. we'll be right back.
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this gives kids around the world life changing quality care right where they are. - like i said, there are a million reasons to support shriners hospitals every month. but i bet i know the best ones. - me! - me! - me! - and me! - when you call the number on your screen right now and give as little as $19 a month, just 63 cents a day, you'll be making a life changing difference for a child just like sarah. - with your monthly gift, we'll send you this adorable love to the rescue blanket as a thank you and a reminder of all the children who make up your million reasons why you support shriners hospitals for children. because of your monthly support, - i can dance. - i can play games with my friends (laughs). - i can walk. - will today be the day you send your love to the rescue? please go online right now to loveshriners.org
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to give your monthly support so more kids get the care they need to be kids. - there are a million reasons to give, and i, - i, - i, - i, - i am one of them. - [group] thank you! - [narrator] please call or go online right now. if operators are busy, please call again or go to loveshriners.org right away to give. your gift shows you care. this morning, the fire at notre dame is out, but the work to recover and restore what was lost is just getting started. the historic church a symbol of paris known around the world, raf ravaged by flames for hours. the sheer size of the flames that we watched consume the roof yesterday. firefighters, though, say the cathedral's stone structure and main works of art were
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fortunately all saved. now comes the painstaking task of rebuilding a monument that was already falling apart. a task that could take decades. with me is vivian, a "time" magazine correspondent who reported on the renovations needed before the fire yesterday. she also saw the flames tearing through the historic church just yesterday. vivian, thank you so much for joining me. you witnessed the fire from your balcony. i mean, this all happened so quickly. what were you seeing and thinking at the time? what struck you most? >> i think what struck me was how rapidly it spread, and this is really kind of opened a whole lot of questions about what happened and what might have happened had it been better planned for some kind of disaster. i think what we saw, and i'm sure your viewers saw it too on footage, that this was a medieval building that simply went up like a box of matches.
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there was nothing kind of slow and steady about it. once it caught fire, it was very, very difficult to get under control. and there was a sense of this being somewhat like out of control. interestingly, at about 10:00 last night, all the hotel's alarms about a half mile away started ringing. it showed solidarity and captured the mood of the city. >> you have a unique perspective on this as well because you wrote a great piece some two years ago about how the cathedral was crumbling and undergoing renovation. is there anything that you saw back then, i mean, you were able to get up on the roof to take a look at the structure then. anything you saw then that would have shown you that it could be vulnerable to this kind of disaster in particular? >> well, actually, kate, i was pretty shocked when they took me up on the roof, and i heard the stories of what was happening and actually, when they led me
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up on the roof, they kind of stepped out onto the roof and said oh, this one is a new one that just drop aufd. we haven't seen this before. and with gargoyles, famous gargoyles that the notre dame is so renowned for, they were just crumbling. and the real deeper question and the deeper thing now to be answered is that they have no money to fix anything properly. there were chunks of stonework that dropped off the roof that they replaced with wooden because they had no money. of course, this morning, $600 million being put out, we have hundreds of millions of dollars pouring in from french billionaires, but this is money that was never coming in before. and for notre dame officials
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have been pleading for for years. >> a great point. one quote struck me reading your piece yesterday from your reporting two years ago, when a french official said to you, it will not fall down, meaning the cathedral. and that was one of the things that french official had told you. there's no way for them to know at the time just how right they were that it would not fall down, but also now seeing how it is not invincible to this destructive damage. thank you for coming on. i really appreciate it. >> you're welcome. >> still ahead for us, presidential candidate pete buttigieg admitsz his campaign has a diversity problem. he admits they need to do better and what he says he'll do about it.
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in his own words this morning, south bend, indiana mayor pete buttigieg has gone from or doshl sadorable six wee plausible. officially joining the presidential race two days ago he's is already polling ahead of candidates who have had much more time on the stable. and he's facing a lack of diversity now amongst his supporters and mayor buttigieg tells cnn he's aware of the problem. >> well, i think we need to do better. as i've been on the trail we've to some extent we depend on geography. we had a very diverse crowd in south bend but less so in south carolina. >> joining me right now is cnn political commentator, former senior advisers to president obama dan pfeiffer.
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great to see you, dan. >> great to see you, kate. >> you actually had buttigieg on let's say -- maybe, i don't know in it was in his adorable phase or plausible phase on the podcast talking to him on the first big interview. let's talk about this as something difficult to overcome, diversity. david axelrod pointed to it in a tweet watching the buttigieg announcement from south bend, crowd seems very large and very enthusiastic but also very white. what do you make about how pete buttigieg is handling questions on this? >> he acknowledges the challenge. he's not defensive about it and recognizes he's in the early stage of this campaign. look, he's gone from entirely unknown to someone who is a legitimate threat to win the democratic nomination in a very short period of time. the question for hi and his campaign going forward is can they take advantage of this boost of momentum to expand his appeal to a larger group of the
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democratic voters and build an organization that can sustain him through this long battle for the democratic nomination? >> that's for sure. one of the things that he said is we need to invite, you know, as a way of correcting the problem, is we need to invite more people into the process. how do you invite more people into the process? how does that work when you're on the campaign trail? >> well, i think he needs to -- i think he's doing this, but it's to expand his group of advisers, the people he's talking to, find out what it is that he can do to raise issues of concern to a wide array of democrats of all backgrounds, to the diverse population who make up our party and get out there and meet people. spend time in south carolina and spend time in nevada. meet the people. won't be people who show up at your rallies or the early events. it will be a being lather group of people who may not be engaged in this moment. >> that's for sure. first-quarter fund-raising numbers come in.
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president trump not surprisingly as the incumbent is leading the pack, you know, of $30 million raised in the first quarter. david chalian, of course, our political director, says money begets money and that's so always true, right. the more money you bring in the more money you'll be able to get. but can you make a case -- some have suggested to me. can you make a case that it's not about this money this cycle and why? >> no, i can't. i think we know from what happened in 2016 that the person who spends the most money is not guaranteed to win. >> right. >> but you do need to have enough money as a democratic primary candidate to run for serious well-organized campaign in the four primary states if you have any chance to be seer crouse presidential candidate. there is going to be a sorting process is a the fund-raising goes on about which candidates can do that and which candidate cannot. money does matter, but whoever has the most money does not
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necessarily win. >> not the end all, be all, do all, but nice to have it when you're running for president. >> better to have it than not. >> great to see you, man. really appreciate it. thanks so much for being here. thank you. coming up next, new details about the inferno at notre dame and how officials plan to save religious relics and priceless works of art inside. i had a heart problem. i was told to begin my aspirin regimen, i just didn't listen, until i almost lost my life. my doctors again ordered me to take aspirin, and i do.
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welcome to i-polltition. i'm john king. thank you for sharing your day with us. house democrats issue new subpoenas asking several banks for records about the president's finances. it's proof there are some investigations just starting even as we await thursday's release of the special counsel's report. plus, new details today for the first set of figure fund-raising reports for the candidates running for president. the republican incumbent gibbs with a giant money edge, and one big test for the democrats is whether they can match the president's strength with small donors. and paris turns from flames and horror to the challenge of securing and rebuilding a global treasure. the fire at notre dame unites leaders from every corner of the globe and parisiennes who live in the shadow of the now scarred cathedral. >> honestly i must say it looks better

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