Skip to main content

tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  May 10, 2019 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT

5:00 pm
>> reporter: jeanne moos, cnn. >> and then we fell in love, okay? >> reporter: new york. >> it's beautiful. thanks for joining us. don't forget you can watch the show any time anywhere, just go to cnn go. have a great weekend. "ac 360" starts right now. good evening, we begin tonight with breaking news. an administration official revealing that the white house asked former white house counsel don mcgahn to say publicly that president trump did not obstruct justice and mcgahn refused. a source familiar with the president said he was upset with mcgahn's reversal. the story was first reported in "the wall street journal." the white house made the request to mcgahn at least twice in the last month. mcgahn was a key witness for robert mueller. he was mentioned in the report more than 500 times. according to the mueller report, president trump sought to have mcgahn fire mueller. mcgahn refused to do that as well but the president denied that ever happened. joining us is the reporter who
5:01 pm
first broke the story, rebecca ballhouse. rebecca, what are you learning about this outreach from the white house to don mcgahn. >> what we understand is within a day of the release of the mueller report, emmet flood, a top white house lawyer, the white house special counsel, received a request from the president that he ask don mcgahn to publicly declare in a statement that he didn't believe his interactions with the president, which included trump asking him to seek mueller's dismissal and subsequently to deny that that conversation ever happened, that mcgahn thought that that amounted to obstruction of justice and they wanted the statement to come out right in the middle of sort of this public furor that was emerging over the report that had a lot of these explosive details about the president's efforts to get rid of robert mueller in the early stages of his investigation. >> so president trump wanted mcgahn to say that he didn't believe the president had tried to obstruct justice? >> that's right. and we know that emmet flood,
5:02 pm
when he reached out to mcgahn's lawyer, pointed to some previous conversations that mcgahn's lawyer had had with other attorneys for the president in which he had said that if mcgahn felt that he had -- that the president had ordered him to commit a crime or that the president had committed a crime that he would have resigned. since he didn't resign, there was an inference to be drawn there. so flood pointed to those conversations and essentially asked them to say that again more publicly. >> so what was their response? >> their response was that mcgahn declined to put out any kind of statement. this was for a couple of reasons, according to what we're hearing. number one, mcgahn didn't want to be perceived as commenting on anything in the report beyond his own testimony. but in addition to that, he didn't really want to comment on his own testimony because he felt that you can't really say whether the president obstructed justice based off of one part of what was testimony from hundreds of witnesses.
5:03 pm
and he also felt that his own statement saying what he believed or didn't believe about whether the president obstructed justice wasn't really relevant when the attorney general had already determined that he didn't believe there was a prosecutable crime. >> do we know, does mcgahn actually believe the president did not obstruct justice? >> well, i think that's a hard question to answer and it's one that i think that lawmakers will want mcgahn to answer. i think the fact that he threatened -- that he felt -- they would have resigned if he felt like he was witnessing a crime and didn't resign is interesting. but it is, as you noted, important to point out that he was prepared to resign if trump pressed again about having him seek mueller's dismissal. so he clearly felt that there was the potential for obstruction of justice there if it had been carried out. >> is it known when mcgahn left the white house -- i mean he and the president, do we know what their relationship was by then?
5:04 pm
did they leave on okay terms? >> we know that the president was really incensed by reporting that mcgahn had spent 30 hours with mueller's investigators. i think that shows itself in the fact that the president's lawyers reached out to mcgahn's lawyer to figure out what exactly mcgahn had said. so i think relations were pretty tense by the time that mcgahn left last fall. i believe at the time the president announced that mcgahn would be leaving in a tweet, which surprised mcgahn himself. >> rebecca ballhaus, appreciate it. thank you very much. >> thank you. "the new york times" also has this reporting. michael schmidt has the byline. joining me is maggie haberman. maggie, what does it say that the president wanted mcgahn to make a statement like this? >> look, i think this fits, anderson, with a pattern of what we have seen the president try to do over the last several years, which is he tries to get
5:05 pm
aidi aides to tamp down information he think may be problematic. he tried to get don mcgahn to issue a statement saying that the president had never told mcdpm mcgahn to fire mueller. mcgahn refused to do that. that is one of the acts mueller considered as possible obstruction of justice. so i think this fits in line with what we've seen the president do repeatedly, try to get people to issue statements on his behalf. it's notable that mcgahn declined to do so. >> if the president wasn't concerned about obstruction of justice and fully believed he had been exonerated as he keeps saying he is, why would he need to go to mcgahn to go out and say this? >> i think that's right. look, mueller -- to your point, mueller was pretty clear, he and his team, in the report that they were not exonerating the president on obstruction of justice. that if they felt they could say that a crime was not committed, that they would have made that very clear. they didn't feel they could say that and so they didn't. it was bill barr, the attorney
5:06 pm
general, and rod rosenstein, then the deputy attorney general, who said in their summary that they do not believe that obstruction was committed because there was no underlying crime. that's not the view of the mueller team. >> you point out that this is a pattern. it's not only a pattern with don mcgahn, he did the same thing with jim comey, asking comey to publicly say that the president wasn't under investigation. he did it with rod rosenstein, trying to get rosenstein to have a press conference, according to the mueller report, and say that it was his idea essentially to fire comey. >> correct. we also know from the mueller report that the president asked corey lewandowski, his former campaign manager, to ask jeff sessions to say something favorable to the president about the russia investigation and the possible conspiracy between the campaign and russian officials. that also didn't happen. we know that the president wanted michael cohen, his former personal lawyer and fixer, to stay sort of within his world and not say anything critical and not cooperate with
5:07 pm
authorities. when michael cohen pleaded guilty, that was when the president branded him a, quote unquote, rat. so we have seen this over and over again. >> mcgahn refused to do this. do you think it's at all connected to the attempts by the white house to prevent mcgahn's testimony in front of congress? >> i don't think that you can look at it as unrelated. i can't speak to their mindset, but it's certainly worth noting the context that the white house has asserted executive privilege over the report. that they invoked privilege, did not assert it in terms of the documents that mcgahn has and the testimony that congress wanted from him, both documents and testimony. they have told him not to comply with the subpoena that he was issued. mcgahn's view as i understand it from people close to him was that the white house was the client. he's not in a position to violate that. either the president has to waive privilege or a court has to order mcgahn to comply. but i don't think you can take away the fact that the white house was asking mcgahn to issue this statement saying he didn't obstruct justice at a time when
5:08 pm
congress is eagerly looking for mcgahn's testimony. mcgahn is a key witness in the mueller case and this will add another question if he ever does appear before congress that he'll be asked. >> it was interesting, during the president's talks to reporters today, he said something that kind of -- actually it was yesterday, i'm sorry. he used a word he normally doesn't use in reference to obstruction. i just want to play this. >> i didn't have to give them a document. i gave them 1.5 million documents. i gave them white house counsel. i gave them other -- anybody you want, you can talk to. at the end of the testimony, no collusion and essentially no obstruction. >> i think it's the first time i've heard him say essentially no obstruction. i don't know if it's a big deal at all, but it's just interesting whether heme meant or not, he usually says no obstruction. >> he's definitely now putting an after the rick on it.
5:09 pm
let's see if he continues to do that. up next, breaking news from steve bannon. we'll get his take on the president's tactics with house democrats. also meet a couple who travel the country on a mission to help survivors of mass shootings. unfortunately they know this grief firsthand and try to help survivors prepare for a future that few can imagine. what are you doing? isn't it obvious? nah. we're delivering live market coverage and offering expert analysis completely free. we're helping you make sense of the markets without cable or a subscription from anywhere you are. i get that. but what are you doing here? nice pajamas. really? i say pajamas. pajamas, pajamas, whichever. good. yahoo finance live. stream free anywhere. welcome to the show. let's make finance make sense.
5:10 pm
if you have moderate to little things can be a big deal. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. it may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. tell your doctor about your medicines and if you're pregnant or planning to be. ready to treat differently with a pill? otezla. show more of you. i had a few good tricks to help hide my bladder leak pad. like the old "tunic tug". but always discreet is less bulky. and it really protects.
5:11 pm
'cause it turns liquid to gel. so i have nothing to hide. always discreet. with licensed agents available 24/7. it's not just easy. it's having-a-walrus-in-goal easy! roooaaaar! it's a walrus! ridiculous! yes! nice save, big guy! good job duncan! way to go! [chanting] it's not just easy. it's geico easy. oh, duncan. stay up. no sleepies. my dbut now, i take used tometamucil every it's geico easy. it traps and removes the waste that weighs me down, so i feel lighter. try metamucil, and begin to feel what lighter feels like. - [woman] with shark's duo clean, i don't just clean, ♪ i deep clean carpets and floors, so i got this.
5:12 pm
yep, this too, and this, please. even long hair and pet hair are no problem, but the one thing i won't have to clean is this because the shark's self-cleaning brush roll removes the hair wrap while i clean. ♪ - [announcer] shark, the vacuum that deep cleans now cleans itself. but some give their clients cookie cutter portfolios. fisher investments tailors portfolios to your goals and needs.
5:13 pm
some only call when they have something to sell. fisher calls regularly so you stay informed. and while some advisors are happy to earn commissions whether you do well or not. fisher investments fees are structured so we do better when you do better. maybe that's why most of our clients come from other money managers. fisher investments. clearly better money management. welcome back. again, our breaking news, an administration official saying the white house asked former white house counsel don mcgahn to state publicly that president trump did not obstruct justice. mcgahn refused and a source says the president was upset at that refusal. the other breaking news story, the escalating fight for the president's financial records. they have issued subpoenas for president trump's tax returns. richard neal is demanding six years of the president's returns after the treasury department refused to turn them over. he has sent subpoenas to the irs
5:14 pm
commissioner and steve mnuchin setting up a likely lengthy court fight. this is stonewalling by the trump administration democrats say. joining me now is steve bannon. i want to get your reaction, first of all, to the reporting about mcgahn. do you think mcgahn is an honorable guy? do you believe what he told the mueller team about what he says the president asked him to do is accurate? >> well, i think, you know, the president at the time waived executive privilege, sent his white house counsel up and had over 30 hours of questioning. i was sent up, reince priebus was sent up, everybody in the white house. the president said go up and spend as much time as possible. i think it was over a million and a half documents. >> do you think mcgahn was honest to what he said to mueller? >> i think you've got to read the report. don mcgahn is a pretty straightforward guy. this was a very serious investigation. i think it's unprecedented in what the president did.
5:15 pm
remember, i was the one that advocated not to fire people like comey. i said he had the right to do it. i thought just for the politics of it and get it out of the way. >> but the president says mcgahn lied. >> look, i think he got -- it's in the document. i think you've got to read the document. >> i've read it. >> i think the document is pretty straightforward. >> okay. a "new york times" report -- >> i think it's pretty straightforward. >> sorry, go ahead. >> you've got to read the document. that's what -- you know, mueller and these guys had months and months and months to put it together. read the document. i think the document is what it is. >> a "new york times" report from earlier this week showed the president hadn't paid federal income taxes for eight out of ten years, claimed it sport when he was claiming enormous losses to the irs. does that play well among blue collar workers where the president did very well and turned democrats to his side, folks who are paying their taxes? i mean when you talk about an elite, that makes the president
5:16 pm
sound like an elite. >> look, if you look at the midwest states the president won, i think he won because of what's happened with china this week. he promised that he was going to reverse the pattern of the elites in the united states and really focus on bringing jobs back to working class people, middle class people throughout the country and particularly in the rust belt. i really don't think, anderson, somebody's taxes from 30 years ago and we don't even know if they're a summary of the taxes, what he did on depreciation. he's a real estate developer. you know, you'd have to go through the whole thing. i don't think it's going to make a big deal. i don't think it's going to make any real difference. i think the issues are the issues of today and voters will say, hey, we thought about that in 2016. we either voted for the guy or didn't vote for the guy on other reasons. i think this is just something that's on the margin. >> i want to ask you about china in a second, but i understand why the president doesn't wanting to release his tax returns. isn't the law pretty clear? it reads upon written request from the chairman of the committee of ways an means, the
5:17 pm
chairman of the finance of the senate or joint taxation the secretary will furnish the committee with any returning or return information specified in such request. it doesn't seem like there's a lot of wiggle room. i know it can be challenged in courts for a long time, but isn't the law clear? >> well, i think -- look, i'm not a lawyer. that's why you have teams of great lawyers around this. the secretary of the treasury said he's not going to do it. i don't agree with steve all the time on his negotiating tactics, but steve is a pretty straight guy. secretary mnuchin. i think he came out and said he's not going to do it. that will go to the courts and they'll fight it. this is what i was saying back in the summer and the fall, elections have consequences. when you lose the house of representatives and the house and the democrats take over their oversight, this is what you're going to get. i said the first six or eight months of this year will be the most vitriolic in american political history. i think you're seeing that every day. i think the vitriol that's building up on capitol hill and
5:18 pm
at the white house every day, it's a slugfest and i don't think it's going to stop. i think it's going to continue. >> let's talk china. you support obviously the tariffs on china. you praised the president for the stance he's taken. i was reading stuff you've said. you said that the goal into china is quite simply to break the back of this totalitarian mercantilist society. you've also written if the chinese communist party agrees to the u.s. demands and they're enforceable, it would, i'm quoting, amount to a legal and regulatory dismantling of chinese state capitalism. if that's the goal, why would china compromise and make that goal if it's essentially to destroy their system? >> well, you know, look, i'm not in the white house and i'm not an advisor to the president now. i think the president has a great relationship with president xi. i think the president is trying to get to a deal. i think this week was one of the most important weeks in modern american at least economic history in that the chinese tried to do what they have often
5:19 pm
done pr abefore. this is the first time you've seen a president drop the hammer and say i'm not going to take the retrade. i've also delayed these other tariffs i think for six months. but these enforcement provisions and these monitoring provisions of the deal are absolutely essential and you have to do it. remember, i take real pride in being from day one a real hawk on this. i think chinese state capitalism is the system -- we have two systems right now. the world is a house divided. half slave and half free. i think chinese state capitalism, i believe, has to be dismantled. i think a lot of things in this transaction start to do that. i think the chinese and particularly the hawks around president xi have really after the belt and road initiative forum in beijing said why do we need the americans? we've got a system that works for us. so i think it's a pretty big gap from where we are, but like i said, i'm pretty hard core on this. i'll also tell you, this is why i think trump is president of
5:20 pm
the united states. i think it was this managed decline of america by elites that he promised voters, particularly in the rust belt on the manufacturing side he was going to reverse. to me this gets to the central heart of his presidency. >> but it sounds like, though, what you're advocating for is more than just about bringing back manufacturing jobs to the heartland. it sounds like you want a larger confrontation with china, an overthrow of their system. i understand the an horbhorrenc what they do to their citizens -- >> i think up got to bring it into the industrial democracy, free market capitalism. we can't go on with two systems. like i said, i'm more -- i've been known to be much more extreme in this area. i think what the president is trying to do and i think it's pretty logical is bring the supply chain, bring the supply chain back to the industrial democracies, particularly the united states, japan and western europe. and i think this deal will call for a lot of that.
5:21 pm
"the new york times" reported that shocking to many that the supply chain is starting to come back. people should remember this 3.2% growth we had last week, that one point over the 2.2 which people thought it was going to be, that surprising 33% increase, that virtually came from president trump's tariffs. that was us decreasing the deficit. so you're seeing the real economic juice in this for americans. i think we're in for a long, protracted fight on this. >> most economists will say the effects aren't known yet. there's obviously others who you argued with in the white house who were arguing that tariffs are hurting american consumers. >> but anderson, anderson, anderson, hang on one second. i think import prices are actually falling. if you look at the fights that the globalists and nationalists had, i actually think trump's tariff policy is working. you're seeing import prices drop. you're seeing a dramatic rise in gdp. i think president trump is on to
5:22 pm
something. it's one of the reasons that he said, hey, i'm not going to crater on doing the retrade here. we're going to stick to our guns. i think the chinese look at themselves and say, hey, they're really trying to fundamentally change our system and we've got to stick to it. >> others would argue the trade deficit hasn't improved as of now. others would say that it's too early. >> it's started -- it's started -- it is, it's very early, but it's started to improve in april. i think a lot of people are saying, hey, the president and these tariffs may be on to something. i think one of the biggest parts of this week, there was no definition today of what the process is going forward. in addition, i think the president has notified or the trade representative notified the federal register that there could be the increase of the other $325 billion of tariffs. i also think the chinese, if my sources are correct, the chinese did not participate in one of the treasury auctions today. so this could get very contentious and get very contentious very quickly. >> we're out of time. i appreciate it, though, thanks
5:23 pm
very much. coming up, why is rudy giuliani, the president's personal attorney, traveling to the ukraine? is it in part to collect information that might damage former vice president joe biden in his campaign for the presidential nomination? details on that ahead. is your floor's best friend. only roomba uses 2 multi-surface rubber brushes to grab and remove pet hair. and the roomba filter captures 99% of dog and cat allergens. if it's not from irobot, it's not a roomba. ♪
5:24 pm
book now and enjoy free unlimited open bar and more. norwegian cruise line. feel free. it turns out, they want me to start next month. she can stay with you to finish her senior year. things will be tight but, we can make this work. ♪ now... grandpa, what about your dream car?
5:25 pm
this is my dream now. principal we can help you plan for that . guys, i've got an idea! oooh, what is it? so people love iphone xr, right? well, it does have an incredible camera. and it comes in all those amazing colors. uh huh. what if we give the people iphone xr, when they join t-mobile? iphone xr on us? yeah, iphone xr on us! what's not to love about that? for a limited time, join t-mobile and get the awesome iphone xr on us.
5:26 pm
5:27 pm
president trump's television lawyer, rudy giuliani, says he'll travel to ukraine shortly to meet that nation's newly elected president. that's about the only thing that's straightforward in a tangled story of 2020 politics and former vice president biden. "360's" randi kaye now with a strange road map. >> all i want the ukrainian government to do is investigate and don't let these people buffalo you. >> reporter: rudy giuliani has questions, and he's hoping to find the answers in ukraine, drawing yet another foreign nation into a u.s. election. the president's lawyer wants to know whether or not joe biden used his political power as vice president to shut down an investigation into a ukrainian company his son, hunter biden, was working with. >> it's a big story, it's a dramatic story, and i guarantee you joe biden will not get to election day without this being investigated. it will be a massive scandal.
5:28 pm
>> reporter: giuliani says he stumbled upon the biden story while investigating democrats' alleged efforts to spread misinformation about trump. he claimed to cnn that in 2016 as part of a broad anti-corruption push by the u.s., then vice president biden pressured the ukrainian government to oust its top prosecutor. he claims that prosecutor was investigating the ukrainian company called barisma holdings, a natural gas company which biden's son, hunter, was on the board of. after that prosecutor's removal, ukraine's new prosecutor dismissed the case against the company. there is no evidence that joe biden acted improperly. in fact bloomberg reports the ukrainian company's case against the company had been dorm and the since 2014. that would have been two years before biden pushed to remove the prosecutor. giuliani told "the new york times," which first reported this story, he's not meddling in
5:29 pm
an election, but he's meddling in an investigation, which he said he has the right to do. he claimed there's nothing illegal about it and this isn't foreign policy. giuliani says he's planning to visit kiev to dig deeper. his efforts to entangle yet another foreign nation in our elections isn't lost on those in washington investigating the president. >> we've come to a very sorry state when it's considered okay for an american politician, never mind an attorney for the president, to go and seek foreign intervention in american politics. >> giuliani is also calling for the department of justice to investigate biden and says the president agrees. but if the goal in all of this is to damage biden's campaign, the candidate hardly seems bothered. the biden campaign referred cnn to a statement it had given to "the new york times," claiming biden acted on ukraine without any regard for how it would or would not impact his son's
5:30 pm
business interests. randi kaye, cnn, new york. >> still ahead, another community grieving after another mass shooting. a brave young man killed, eight others wounded. they aren't the only victims. their families and friends are now living with the grief that few can imagine. we want to introduce you to a couple coming up who know their pain and now make it their mission to help survivors find the purpose and strength to live what they call their new normal. it's a story you don't want to miss, next. this is not a bed. it's a revolution in sleep.
5:31 pm
the sleep number 360 smart bed is on sale now during our memorial day sale. it senses your movement, and automatically adjusts to keep you both comfortable. it even helps with this. so you wake up ready to hit the ground running. only at a sleep number store. during the memorial day sale, save $1000 on the new queen sleep number 360 special edition smart bed, now only $1,799. only for a limited time. sleep number. proven, quality sleep. [ chuckles ] so, what are some key takeaways from this commercial? did any of you hear the "bundle your home and auto" part? -i like that, just not when it comes out of her mouth. -yeah, as a mother, i wouldn't want my kids to see that. -good mom. -to see -- wait. i'm sorry. what? -don't kids see enough violence as it is? -i've seen violence. -maybe we turn the word "bundle" into a character, like mr. bundles. -top o' the bundle to you. [ laughter ] bundle, bundle, bundle. -my kids would love that. -yeah. bundle, bundle, bundle. [music playing] jerry has a membership to this gym,
5:32 pm
but he's not using it. and he has subscriptions to a music service he doesn't listen to and five streaming video services he doesn't watch. this is jerry learning that he's still paying for this stuff he's not using. he's seeing his recurring payments in control tower in the wells fargo mobile app. this is jerry canceling a few things. booyah. this is jerry appreciating the people who made this possible. oh look, there they are. (team member) this is wells fargo. roxana: when i got into teaching, it was this idea of really transforming our schools.
5:33 pm
marisa: one of my biggest responsibilities as a teacher is to serve as an advocate for my kids. newscaster: hundreds of teachers are hitting the picket lines. newscaster: thousands gathered here. rosanne: we need smaller class sizes. angelia: more counselors and more nurses. roxana: we have to be able to invest in our young people. angelia: every student has a right to quality education. ever: no matter what neighborhood you live in. roxana: our students don't have part-time needs, so they can't have part-time solutions. rodney: because we know quality public schools... roxana: make a better california... marisa: for all of us.
5:34 pm
the two suspects in the deadly shooting in a colorado charter school will appear in court next week to hear the charges against them. the 18-year-old and 16-year-old, both students at the school, will face murder, attempted murdered and perhaps other charges. kendrick castillo was killed. he died when he lunged at the shooter giving his classmates time to hide. the tragedy was the latest blow to a community that has already endured a rash of mass shootings including columbine and the aurora movie theater shooting. in a piece i did for "60 minutes" i met a remarkable couple who travel around the country trying to make the unthinkable somehow bearable for survivors and their families. here's that story. >> your identity has been stripped from you. whether it's mother or daddy or father or sister or brother. i no longer have that title. i no longer have that
5:35 pm
relationship. and when it's violence, like ours was, that takes a long time to recover from. >> i think some people think that there's a timetable for grief. >> oh, yeah. >> do you get that? >> oh, yeah. the five stages of grief, right? and you go through all five of them and think, okay, now i'm done. and they don't tell you, oh, no, you get to start it all again and they're out of sequence. a lot of survivors just don't know that, especially going into it. you might find that what you have done for the last 20 years of your life or 30 years of your life has absolutely no meaning to you anymore. and that was certainly the case for us. >> it wasn't long after their daughter's murder that sandy and lonnie phillips quit their jobs. they have gotten rid of most of their belongings and rented out their house so they can travel around the country to mass shootings, hoping to meet survivors and offer help. the scene of a mass shooting is not an easy place to come to.
5:36 pm
it can be like walking into a stranger's funeral. >> we don't know each other yet, but we do now. >> reporter: but in grief, strangers can quickly become family. >> you've got a second mom here. >> reporter: we saw the phillips' in thousand oaks, california, where 12 people were gunned down at a country music bar last november. it is one of the latest stops on their heart-breaking journey. >> you if you haven't lost somebody close to you, you can't comprehend it. >> just days before they arrived here, they were in pittsburgh where 11 people were murdered at the tree of life synagogue. >> it's so interesting what you're doing. you're not trained therapists, you're not counselors, and yet you have upended up lives and reaching out in a very individual way to people. >> yeah. it's compassion. >> that's what it is. >> bottom line, it's about compassion. >> the compassion we get from those people too. it's not like it's a one-way
5:37 pm
deal. >> it was in 2012 that their daughter, jessica, was murdered along with 11 others in a movie theater in aurora, colorado. she was 24 and an aspiring sports reporter. >> can you take me back to that day? >> yes. the young man that was with her, brent, was like a son to us. and she decided that she wanted to take him to see the batman movie. and when the shooting happened, they stood up and never made it out. >> both of them? >> brent survived. he was shot trying to save her. he went into paramedic mode immediately, because that's what he does for a living. and the phone rang. >> did he call you from inside the theater? >> yeah. and i could hear the screaming going on in the background. and he said, there's been a shooting. i said are you okay?
5:38 pm
he said i think i've been shot twice. and i knew then that, okay, something is bad. and i said, where's jessie? and he said i tried. and i said, is she okay? and he said i did my best, i tried. and i said, oh, god, brent, don't tell me she's dead. and he said i'm really sorry. and i started screaming. >> and she was sliding down the wall screaming. i grabbed her and picked her up, took her to the couch. she kept yelling jessie's dead. >> it's been six years now, almost seven. and there's not a day goes by that we don't still get upset and still cry. >> i lost a brother to suicide and a lot of people say you're now part of a group which you never wish you would be part of. >> and it's a lifetime membership and the cost of the dues was way, way, way too high.
5:39 pm
>> sandy is 68. lonnie 75. they have been living mostly on savings, social security and good will. >> i know that you're on a deadline. >> occasionally crashing with friends. >> how are you guys doing? >> they started a nonprofit organization called survivors empowered to offer advice and kinship in the wake of mass shootings. but also to give families practical information, like how to deal with media attention or how to get a body home for a funeral. >> it's lonnie, just checking in on you. >> there's things that happen to the families of people who have been shot in a mass killing that do not happen to families of somebody who has died under different circumstances. >> exactly. the worst part is finding out that the day your child has been killed, that there are already websites that have popped up and facebook pages that have popped up saying this is a false flag
5:40 pm
and this didn't happen. >> did you have people saying jessica wasn't real? >> oh, yeah. >> she's a crisis actor, she wasn't real, she wasn't there. >> yep. >> you didn't lose a daughter. >> all the time. >> you never saw your sister's dead body. >> since jessica's murder, sandy's son, jordan, has been harassed and threatened by a man who like many conspiracy theorists claims there are no massacre in aurora. >> your days are numbered, mother [ bleep ]. >> it's hard to imagine but similar harassment happens to families every time there's a mass shooting. >> that's the worst kind of harm you can do to someone. you're a devastated parent becoming more devastated. >> a shooting at century theaters. >> after the massacre in aurora, sandy and lonnie, who are gun owners themselves, filed a lawsuit against companies that sold gear and ammunition to their daughter's killer over the internet. the judge threw out the case and ordered them to pay more than
5:41 pm
$200,000 to cover defendant's legal fees. they had to declare bankruptcy, and now consult for a gun control group to make ends meet. >> paying that forward right here. >> reporter: but they say they keep that work separate from their outreach to survivors. >> we don't ever bring up guns. >> we never bring up politics or guns. >> we don't advocate, we don't recruit, we don't do any of that stuff until somebody shows an interest. and we tell them, you're not ready yet. >> the course of their new lives has followed a road map of american tragedies. they started in newtown, then went to isla vista, san bernardino, orlando, las vegas, sutherland springs, parkland, santa fe, pittsburgh and thousand oaks. each massacre is different, but the look sandy and lonnie see on the faces of those left behind is the same. >> you just can't believe it.
5:42 pm
it can't be real. >> you don't want to believe it. >> annika and mitch's 17-year-old son, nicholas, who had just earned a swimming scholarship to college was murdered with 16 others in parkland, florida, last year. >> i expect nick to come home any day when i walk through the house. he was such a great kid. >> nick's younger brother, alex, who was grazed by a bullet doesn't talk much about what happened. he was in a classroom across the hall from nick's when the shooting began. their parents were nearby waiting for school to let out. >> then alex called us and said, mom, i'm in the back of an ambulance, i was hit in the back of the head. i didn't worry about nicholas because there was 3,100 at that school. what's the odds of two of my kids being shot. you wait for nicholas. >> and i waited for nicholas. >> they waited for 12 hours
5:43 pm
before finally being told nicholas was dead. within days a mutual friend connected them with sandy and lonnie phillips. >> do you remember that first meeting? >> of course. they had a houseful of people. we felt a little bit like we were intruding on a very private moment, which we were, but for a good reason. >> i was a little skeptical in the beginning. i'm thinking to myself, what do they want from us. why are they here? after speaking to them, which lasted for three hours. >> three hours. >> three hours, yeah. >> and they took the time just to be here and we're not here for any other reason but for you guys. because you're in a place that's just not of this normal life. >> yeah. >> you can't imagine. >> when you open your eyes in the morning, you're just like why should i get up today? why should i do that? and it's just so painful to feel this pain the whole day. and then to meet somebody who has been through this and six years later and they are getting
5:44 pm
out of bed. >> you could look at sandy and actually see a way through? >> right. >> potentially. >> right. >> what are some of the things you -- kind of the list of things you warn a grieving parent. >> the list is i know you don't want to get out of bed right now, but you're going to live through this in spite of it. just know that it's going to take you a long time. that's number one. number two, people are ripping you off right now as we're speenging. there's probably a go fund me page somewhere raising funds for the families and that money goes into their bank account. you'll never see it. so be careful who you trust. so it's an introduction. you know, mass shooting grief 101. >> to help them keep up, the phillips are trying to create a network of survivors who can quickly respond to mass shootings anywhere in the country. volunteers like shana. she met sandy and lonnie in 2017 after kur are surviving the
5:45 pm
massacre in las vegas. >> when i first met them i asked if i could go to parkland with them. that was after vegas. she was like, no, honey, you're not ready for this yet. >> she's telling me her story and i'm listening to her and i'm going oh, my god. >> shana showed sandy the cell phone video she unintentionally recorded of the shooting. >> and i'm watching the video and i'm going this is triggering me. i can't imagine what she has really gone through. >> what was happening around you? >> people were going down right away. i could hear the bullets whizzing right past my head. you would just see them like jerk. i don't know if i can say this. you would see them just explode. >> the gunfire lasted more than ten minutes. 58 people were killed. for weeks afterward, shana said she was hardly able to leave her
5:46 pm
house. sandy advised her to see a therapist who specializes in severe trauma. >> so after about four or five months of therapy, i was like a walnut that cracked open. i finally cried about it. and i called sandy and i'm like, i cried. i was all excited. >> and i said, i'm actually very happy. now you can begin to put things together and create the new you. and now she's doing incredible work. >> so this has been growing really ever since the shooting? >> yeah. >> the work shana caputo is doing started last fall, after the bar shooting in thousand oaks, california, which is just miles from her house. she's now trying to help some of those survivors the way sandy and lonnie phillips helped her. >> wouldn't it be easier for you to not be immersed in the world of mass shootings? you are immersed in a very dark world. >> we live it, but we don't see it as dark. we see it as shedding a little
5:47 pm
light. we care about these people. we want to help them find their purpose and find their strength so that they can live their new normal. >> living their new normal. sandy and lonnie phillips. up next, i'll talk with chris cuomo who just spoke with the parents of kendrick castillo, the student killed this week in the colorado school shooting. . ♪ ♪ find calm in over 1,000 airport lounges worldwide. it's another way we've got your back. the business platinum card from american express. don't do business without it. cake in the conference room! showing 'em you're ready to be your own boss. that's the beauty of your smile. bring out the best in it with crest 3d white. crest removes 95% of surface stains... in just three days. what if i wielded the power of i could bend reality to my will, with a snap of my fingers!
5:48 pm
i just saved money with geico. i saved hundreds of dollars! nice! that is a lot of money. the power is exhilarating!! hahahahahaha! hah. ha. just got something in my throat. yea... marvel studio's "avengers endgame." in theaters april 26. with advil liqui-gels, what stiff joints? what bad back? advil is... relief that's fast. strength that lasts. you'll ask... what pain? with advil liqui-gels. etsthe belongings to finwe hold on to.s. etsy knows that moments, big and small,
5:49 pm
deserve things that really matter. sold by real people and filled with things that last beyond the latest trends. belongings don't just show what we care about. they show who we are. shop it's not small. but it's not just big either. it's the kind of big where you'll never have to ask, "should i scooch up?" it's big that looks at a sunroof and wonders why it can't just be most of the roof. it's big that's better because we built it that way. the spacious, 121 cubic feet of cargo space ford expedition.
5:50 pm
the spacious, 121 cu- hi,- hey! cargo space [beeping] [♪] - hmm! yummy! - pretzelrami is back, with our famous pastrami and a bigger soft pretzel roll. and try the new turkey bistro with warm turkey and smokehouse bacon. or the new hot club chicken dijon with black forest ham. the new hot pretzels, only at togos. how far would you go for a togo? - i own you, doug.
5:51 pm
before the break we told you the story of the phillipses, a mother and father whose daughter jessica was killed in a shooting in colorado. chris cuomo spoke to the parents of the young man who was killed this week in a shooting. that will air at the top of the hour. we have covered these things so often. every now and then when you hear from the parents i think it is so important so keep the focus
5:52 pm
on the victims and the people whose lives are forever changed >> true. first, if i may -- you're not going to like this. but few cover them the way you do. when i was still at abc when we first met your focus on not saying the names of killers, not saying the names of terrorists, focusing on victims and their families and the stories that show what they are was unique for a long time. now the rest of us have been catching up. there's a virtue in that. because what we saw these last two weeks with riley howell and with kendrick castillo, unmitigated horror >> yeah. >> however, those castillos tonight for all their pain, their only son, today should have been his last day of high school. they know they did their job as parents in a way people like me can only wonder. they put something in that kid that in the moment that mattered most in his life he did the right thing for other people, not himself. that's all we are trying to do is raise good people.
5:53 pm
his father says tonight you can't defend yourself from everything, from bad. you have to make more good. you have to have more kids like these. it's a beautiful sentiment from a man in such pain >> yeah. >> those are the stories we have to tell and you tell them as well as anyone. >> thank you, chris. important. chris is coming on seven minutes from now. coming up, something to hopefully make you smile. the ridiculist and cnn's annual champions for change series returns next week. here's a quick preview. >> some people. >> some stories. >> are so powerful they leave their mark. >> nobody has ever affected me the way your son did. >> their work creates real impact. >> on their communities. >> on their country. >> on us all. >> meet the change-makers we have never forgotten. >> what a difference seven years makes. >> this is the place.
5:54 pm
>> yeah. >> this is the place where i lived. >> wow. >> this is bill from cnn. >> it's my first time today. >> these are the champions for change. >> it is amazing. >> i just get to tell you a story. >> champions for change, a week-long cnn special event. all next week. th even more vegas to turn their available rooms into amazing deals. ladies' weekend delegates, how do you vote? (wild cheering) just going to count that as a yes. the nightclub djs? (music plays) sample: yes... y-y-y-yes... can you just... turn that down? and magician delegates, how do you vote? ( ♪ ) that is freaky. the motion passes! more great deals from priceline.
5:55 pm
that is freaky. the motion passes! forget about vacuuming for weeks. the (new) roomba i7+ with clean base automatic dirt disposal empties the roomba bin for you. so dirt is off your hands. if it's not from irobot, it's not a roomba. i've got an idea! oooh, what is it? what if we give the people iphone xr, when they join t-mobile? for a limited time, join t-mobile and get the awesome iphone xr on us. ...on a john deere 1 series tractor.. because changing your attachments... whether it's for this job... this job... or even this job...
5:56 pm
should be as easy as... changing your plans. nothing runs like a deere. search john deere drive green to find a test drive event near you. plants capture co2. what if other kinds of plants captured it too? if these industrial plants had technology that captured carbon like trees we could help lower emissions. carbon capture is important technology - and experts agree. that's why we're working on ways to improve it. so plants... can be a little more... like plants. ♪
5:57 pm
it turns out, they want me to start next month. she can stay with you to finish her senior year. things will be tight but, we can make this work. ♪ now... grandpa, what about your dream car? this is my dream now. principal we can help you plan for that . and relief from symptoms caused feel the clarity of non-drowsy claritin by over 200 indoor and outdoor allergens. like those from buddy. because stuffed animals are clearly no substitute for real ones. feel the clarity. and live claritin clear.
5:58 pm
time for the ridiculist. tonight's entry comes from what i assume was a trump university lesson on self-affirmation meaning a brochure under a windshield wiper. the president whose tweets sound like they are coming from an autocrat in a bunker with a ham radio. there is always time to pat himself on the back. your all time favorite president got tired of waiting for china to help out and start buying from our farmers, the greatest anywhere in the world. that's right. not just anyone's all time favorite, but yours. i know. he knows it. judge janine knows it and you know it as well now. i'm not sure how it makes sense. when julie andrews sang about her favorite things she wasn't informing the von trapp children they loved rain drops on roses. she was like, look, you have options. believe it or not today's tweet wasn't the first time president trump declared himself field
5:59 pm
marshall for life. i refer you to this tweet at the time of the michael cohen raid. your favorite president did nothing wrong. okay, individual one, whatever you say. let that simmer in the southern district crock pot. there were a bunch of other examples. have fun googling them. they are part and parcel of the president's flunked 5th grade civics approach to the jo. for instance you can't impeach a president for creating the best economy in our country's history. just because something is doing well doesn't give you immunitim. people love martha stewart's carrot cake but she still went to the can. if a president tells you he's his favorite he's at least insecure. not a few votes shy of a quorum on the ridiculist. the news continues. here's chris cuomo with "cuomo
6:00 pm
primetime" >> the best to you and your mom on mother's day. >> you, too. >> i'm chris cuomo. welcome to "primetime." subpoena friday. the next phase in the fight for tax returns has cometh. what should be any different? we'll ask a member of the committee that issued today's summonses. and the president tried to get mueller's star witness to say trump never obstructed justice. did you hear how don mcgahn responded? you will. and the implications here tonight. plus, after all the cries of no collusion, why would team trump openly solicit help from russia's neighbor for the next election? we have the reporter who broke the astounding story you are going to be hearing about for a long time. it starts tonight. and we honor a fallen hero on what would have been his last day as a senior at the stem school ico