tv Global Lessons on Guns A Fareed Zakaria GPS Special CNN August 10, 2019 7:00pm-8:00pm PDT
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>> everybody get down! [ screams ] >> orlando. >> three tense horrifying hours. [ sirens ] >> gunpointi got a body here. >> 27 people lost their lives. 20 of them are young children. these horrific events have come to define the united states. the most recent figure shows that everyday on average more than 100 people were killed with a gun in america. in total there were more than 114,000 gun murders and theirly 20,000 gun suicides in 2017. compares to other rich countries, america's gun violence is on another planet. the u.s. had nine times as many
gun homicides than canada. over 70 times as many as the united kingdom. these other countries all face the same big challenges with mental health. they all have the same violent video games. and other nations in comparison to united states when it comes to gun violence. >> another shooting. another angry young man. we have seen too many tragedies like this. >> can americans learn something from other countries on this crucial issue? this is how we are going to travel the world to look for solutions. we'll visit a country that shares america's love for guns. gun violence. we'll visit another nation where liberals and conservatives actually reach an agreement on gun control and afterwards shooting plummeted. >> first, let's start right here
in the u.s. where an entire amendment to the constitution concerns guns. does that amendment truly means what the nra or others recently led us to believe? a well-regulated militia, beingness si to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed. no disrespected of james madison. no one is exactly sure what the first clause about the militia has to do with the clause about the right to bear arms. for almost 200 years, the puzzlement of the meaning was barely an issue.
in the 1970s, new leadership took over the nra and made the group's permission to protect every mission's right and enshrinement in the second amendment and to keep and bear arm. t warr warr warren berger appointed by richard nixon to say the foll followifollo following in the u.s. >> so, what to make of the second amendment and what to do about it? jonesi joining me now is michael walden. the author of "the second amendment biography." and our chief analyst here at cnn, jeffery toobin. >> when warren berger says that.
he was in sense expressing the long continuity of american law which had felt that the second amendment did not confer on equivocal rights to bear arms. >> he was reflecting the conventionalism of the century. the supreme court and the heller's case said an in individual rights was reflected in the amendment. those regulated militias which were foreign to us. they were worried that the big strong new central government may crush these states military forces. but they were unlike anything we have now. >> so to be clear, what you are saying that was meant to be a way for states to organize militias for themselves so those militias could have arms and could be armed and the federal
government -- in a sense it had nothing to do with an individual person privately owning an arm. >> you had an individual right to gun ownership and fulfill your duty to serve in the militia. every white man was required by law to serve in the militia and requir required to own military weapon and keep it at home. >> what i am shocked when you read the book in details, there were a lot in tax in the 1890s and particularly by the 1930s in the roosevelt administration, there are slews of them all upheld by the supreme court. >> you will upheld and not much debated unconstitutional realm. when there has been discussions throughout the 20th century about whether it is a good idea or what kind of guns should be regulated. those were policy disputes. the idea that the constitution
for gun control is a relatively new idea and one that was pushed with enormous vigor and ultimately great success boo i the national rights association. >> a lot of people even who will accept the premise. look, this is happening. we have a lot of guns and that's the one thing to distinguish america from every other country. they say well, we can't do anything because of the second amendment. what do you say to that? >> i think it is pretty clear that the constitution is not a bar to strong gun laws. the last ten years about a thousand cases considered gun laws under this new interpretation of the second amendment. democratic judges and republican judges and state courts and federal courts overwhelmingly they upheld those laws. that's because it is an individual right but there are restrictions as well.
dangerous weapons can be barred. courts understood that we have rights and responsibilities and they have to fiend a way to balance that and assault weapon bans and all proposals upheld by the courts and led their consensus by so far. it is not the interpretation of the constitution. it is a broken political system and political will that stands in the way i believe. that may change but that's the way it is right now. >> what do you thoink of the realistic prospect going forward of this issue? >> i think we don't know and we may be in the new era. focused and effective and angry of people who care about this and want stronger gun laws. it is always much more shallow an the intensity of the nra and its supporters.
it may well be that young people, a whole group of them don't get why they should not think big. just as with the me too movement and marriage equality, we can have a social change that can happen fast and which compromises that same sense of were necessary to older people don't seem that way. >> count me as more skeptical of the future prospect of the gun safety movement. remember the structure of our government. small and lesser populated states like arizona, utah, oklahoma have the same number of the united states senators as kal california and new york do who have millions more people. as long as the rural interests are over represented in our government in congress, i think any sort of movement towards gun control is going to face a very uphill battle. >> next up is some sort of
mental health crisis responsible for many of america's massachusetmass shootings? that's what many say, i will ask the experts when we come back. after walking six miles at an amusement park... bill's back needed a vacation from his vacation. so he stepped on the dr. scholl's kiosk. it recommends our best custom fit orthotic
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>> the difficult issue of mental health. >> it makes you sick to look at it. he was a mentally ill person. >> i think mental health is a problem here. >> mentally ill or disturbed. it is a mental problem. >> mental health. it is a topic that comes up after almost every shooting when the police and neighbors and the media are searching for answers. [ sirens ] >> in some shooting like the parkland case where 14 students and three adults were killed in florida high school. nikolas cruz claims he had a chronic battle of mental illness. america's rate of gun suicides is seven times the european's average. gun suicide rate is 20 times
higher. the amou and then there is this. an fbi report that studies 63 active shooting cases from 2013 and found only 25% of the shooters have been diagnosed with mental illness. where is the disconnect? joining me now are two distinguished doctors. our dr. sanjay gupta, our cnn chief correspondent. >> dr. amy, let me ask you, explain to us how to think about this. at some level people assume that somebody goes in and kills a whole bunch of people, innocent people in many events is by definition. >> it is hard to say those guys
impaired of psychological wellness. i think it is important to differentiate of mental illness like schizophrenia or bipolar or depression. somebody who's angry or entitled or narcissists. they may not be psychologically well but that may not be of mental illness. people of mental illness being violent, that's not what we are talking about. >> sanjay, when you hear people say it must be we have a mental health problem in america that's why we have so many gun deaths. what's your reaction? >> you look at the mental health ra rates and dig down the number when it comes to certain things like depression of the united states, it depends on how you look at the data but not ten times as high as you said
fareed. guns are the distinguishing factor here. the vast majority of the gun deaths are suicides. two-thirds of these gun deaths are suicides. we get a lot of attention when parkland or something like that happens. there are hundreds of these gun deaths a day and the vast majority of these are people killing and harming themselves. >> suicides, it is fair to say one of the distinguishing features in america is are suicides more successful in general. obviously it is terrible and any one who's trying to commit suicide has a problem but if you are doing it with a knife or rope or pills versing a gun, the ladder is likely effective. >> it is frightening. we see these in the emergency rooms and as well as patients coming in. just to give you a little context, 90% of success rates if you are using firearms and with
pills, 1-2% success rate. so it is not everyone clon clos. >> fair to the community, what would be the best way to go about it. >> most of these young men don't have history of mental health treatments or illness. they don't necessarily meet the criteria to be voluntarily committed in the mental health system. there is this gap they fall into mental health treatment and criminal justice treatment. so, what a lot are doing is passing our red flag laws. california passed one that went into effect in 2016 and washington, oregon since passed and since parkland passed these laws as well. it is something they would have been able to implemented in florida before this young man went into the high school. >> when uh-uh share this, do you say to yourself you know at the
end of the day, still the big issue remains of the way we regulate guns rather than the way we treat people. >> i do think it is. there are so many different people in the country, you have the same set of recharacteristi as the young men who turn out to be shooters. similar people with similar r s characteristi characteristics. the last step between not being a mass shooter and being a mass shooter is having access to high capacity weapons that enable you to kill a lot of people quickly. >> you know we have cases you reported on some of them in china and india, somebody with a mental condition goes into a school but he has a knife. >> that's right. >> maybe one person dies or none. >> it is a completely different scenario. fareed, when i started doing this work back in 2001, this did not seem to be a big enough issue. we did not train for mass
casualties within our training program. we train for blunt trauma. patients coming in with penetrated gunshot injuries is a totally different scenario now. >> fascinating conversation. we'll visited countries where there is a extremely contentious debate about guns. could that be a model for america? ♪ boom goes the dynamite, ♪ feels like i'm taking flight. ♪ [sfx: poof] [sfx: squeaking eraser sound effect.] ♪ i am who i wanna be ♪ ♪ who i wanna be ♪ who i wanna be. ♪ i'm a strong individual ♪ feeling that power ♪ i'm so original, ♪ ya sing it louder. ♪ i am, ooo ooo ooo ooo ♪ ehhh ehhh ehhh pre-order and get more. get up to $150 samsung credit,
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i can worry about it, or doe. something about it. garlique helps maintain healthy cholesterol naturally, and it's odor-free, and pharmacist recommended. garlique he just walked up and stood in front of people and just shot them. he shot them in the heads. i know what it is like waking up the next day, it is your birthday. you wake up alone. there is no one in the house and it is not going to change for quite a long time. [ gunshot ] >> the worst mass shooting in austria's history. >> on april 28th, 1996, over 30
people were shot dead at a crowded tourist destination. a historic prison, the 28-year-old martin bryant arrived at the site and ate lunch and walk ed into a cafe ad pulled a semiautomatic rifle out of his bag. he killed his three best friends. >> i could not move. i didn't know what to do. i thought this is the end. >> with that he turned around and pushed me under the table and mathe others under the tabl told me to be quiet and we pretended to be dead. >> miraculously. the gunman moved on and fiddlers
escaped with their lives outside the cafe. their wife and daughter ars had picnic. the gunshman shot her. >> each children. the girls they're all dead. i just remember them screaming. we wanted to be with them. at that point in time -- i didn't want to be alive. >> 35 people were killed before bryant was captured by the police. >> the overwhelming feeling was this was terrible. we had to do something about it.
>> prime minister john howard elected weeks before the massacre. with so many victims from different parts of the country, the shooting shocked the small nation of 18 millions to its core. >> in politics, we use capital for a good cause. >> a dramatic reduction in the number of automatic and semiautomatic weapons. >> how is it proposed of the toughest gun laws in austria's history. ban on semi-automatic rifles and shotguns and mandatory gun registration and requiring a reason for buying a gun and new. if they passed, they would
represent one of the most changes of gun laws the world ever seen. it was not going to be easy. howard was a conservative and many supporters were gun owners who were dead set against tighter laws. as you travel the country to sell the plant, howard met plenty of resistance. >> guys, the decision is not going to be changed. >> wearing a bullet proof vest at one rally. >> it was not all that popular. there was a lot of critical efforts in the media. was it the right course for austria? yes, it was. tim fischer was howard's deputy prime minister and some what of an ally. a proud gun owner and a veteran of the vietnam war. he supported howard wholeheartedly.
>> thanks to howard's broad coalition, all of austria's states and territory enacted within reform within about two years of the shooting. the government paying everyone to turn in their illegal guns so they could be destroyed. >> over 600,000 guns were eliminated. estimated of one-fifth of australians' firearms. >> after the new measure were passed, some were voted out of office. overall the reforms were popular. in a short period of time, the rising out of the tragedy, we did bring about of a change, demonstrating trying to save lives. >> gun suicides fell 65% in the
decades that follows. while the sample size was small. they fell 59%. what's more that has been more than the mass shooting of austria. >> by its count of the same periods in the u.s., there had been more than 100 deliberate killings of four or more victims in a public space, unrelated to the crime. the vegas shooting. the victims of port arthur, painful memories will never be too far away. >> one of this things that fixed me was waking up to the radio in the morning and there is shootings overseas, particularly
americans and that really does make us take a step back. >> what's happening is not far from normal life. it is the cancer that's eating away the united states of america. it is possible to change the way things are. >> up next, after many shootings in america, fingers are pointing into the influence of violence of video games. is gun violence a big problem there? well, you will find out when we come back. with so many nourishing shades, a color change is easy. nutrisse has 77. from our darkest blacks, to our lightest blondes. it nourishes while it colors. plus avocado, olive and shea. change a little, or a lot.
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i heard it before after countless mass shootings, one culprit keeps oncoming up haunting the population for years. video games. these games teach a child enjoy inflicting torture. >> you heard it after columbine. >> children are decenttized. you win by how many people you kill. >> the level of violence on video games is really shaping young people's thoughts. >> after a weekend of two tragic
massacres. >> we must stop the glorifications of our society. >> we want to find a country that could teach us about gaming and gun violence. we decided to visit japan. few nations on earth has more avid gamers than the land of the rising sun. japanese play many of the same violent video games we do. gaming revenue in japan was nearly $19 billion behind only china and the united states. there is another factor to consider here when it comes to gun violence.
japan has some of the strictest gun laws in the world. the basic premise of those laws. if you want to own a gun, good luck. japan's firearms, no person shall possess a firearm before listing a few narrow exceptions for hunters and other categories. for the brave still wanting to apply for another one. they face a bureaucratic obstacle course. just ask a former u.s. marine living in mount fiji. he told us he was one of the handful owners in japan to legally own a gun. he shows us a binder of paper work he had to deal with over the years. they were a bit overwhelming. >> what all do you have to do?
>> it is such a -- initially, toupt he you want to help me? he took a 20-hour lecture and shooting test and doctors gave him a full psychological and physical exams. he was visited the police station where he was interviewed in an interrogation room. >> do you have any problems with drugs or alcohols or family or work or money. >> police also questioned sako's family, his co-workers and neighbors and top it off, he had to give them a detailed map of his home. >> to produce a floor map of where your firearm will be stored in your home is kind of unusual and photos that actually details all of the locks that we have to have in there and show that it is done properly. >> it took saka over a year to
aprover. he must renew his licenses regularly. >> the intrusion that occur of the process regularly would never ever be ratolerated in th u.s. >> it is a process meant to discourage people from trying to get a gun. it works. japan has fewer guns per person than almost any other countries. less than one firearm less than 100 people according to estimates. >> the country's gun murder rate is astonishing low. in 2017, this nation of 127 million people counted only 9 gun murders. that's right, nine. the u.s. per capita gun homicide rate that year was more than 600 times than japan. >> japan has so little gun violence that every time a shot is fired in japan, one of the guys pulled out the sword and
slash -- >> jake alds ttein, a reporter r japan for twelve years. he authored a memoir of his reporting days called "tokyo vice." there is a dark side but seldom lead to fire. >> i have not met a cop since fired his gun. i have been working as a reporter in japan since 1993. >> guns are so rare and tightly regulated that even mobsters avoid using guns. they are recognized for their full body tattoos. japanese organized crimes have enormous region of business and politics. many don't like conducting business with guns.
>> translator: guns are like nuclear weapons. >> translator: weapons that we have but we don't use. >> he sat down with us to give us his take on the mob's attitu attitude. he insisted wearing a mask but showed us his tattoos. another trademark to prove his identity. >> translator: guns are concept in control by strict regulations within the organization. it is prohibited for members to take the gun out and use it. >> that's because punishments for gun and fractures are very high in japan he says. simply firing a gun can get you life in prison. >> if a foot soldier in the mob
gets caught with guns, his boss can be held responsible. >> these days they conduct business using less efficient method. >> translator: there are not specific orders of what weapons we can use but obviously there are only knives or japanese swords instead of guns to kill. >> if you make strict gun laws and you assign cops to enforce those laws and you actually enforce them, the rate of gun deaths in the united states would plummet but you have to do it. >> next we'll visit a country with a lot of guns, just like the u.s. a fraction of the medical's gun violence. find out that country's secrets when we come back.
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shooting festival that's the largest shooting competition in the world. towns and villages across the country staged test of marksmansh marksmanship. families bring the kids. [ cheers ] and after the competition, there is a gigantic party. [ cheers ] one festival in the town was especially loud. >> they would cheer wildly. the champion of the prestigious 300 competition is known to all as the shooting king. switzerland is by many measures a gun lover's paradise.
the swiss ranked in the top 20 in the world with guns for people. >> why is switzerland armed? well, thanks to a tradition that dates back to the dawn of the nation. its citizens militia that formed its army. all able bodies meant, served at least 245 days in the militia. they're all trying to shoot and most of them keep their guns at home. militiamen can hone their skills at their local shooting clubs. gun appreciation society, more than 100,000 members and offered classes and competitions and comradery. >> we do competitions together. >> we are young people and we are older people.
>> she has been shooting for most of her life. on this day at her club, she hits the bulls eye 18 out of 20 times. not bad for someone in her 70s. >> i never did it. >> even the youngsters here are expert marksmen. this man was only 20 years old when we met him. he started training two days before. the v his advice for the inexperienced? don't fidget while shooting. supporters of gun rights in america have claimed that the
swiss proved one of their main points -- lots of guns does not necessarily mean lots of gun violence, but that is not the whole story here in switzerland. >> their interest is definitely not that any crazy man with a criminal history should go out and be able to buy a gun at any spot. >> this doctor is a professor of criminalology. he points out that many swiss gun laws are much stricter than those in mramerica. >> there are now far more loopholes than there were in the past. >> over time swiss voters have even tightened these controls to comply with the new standards.
the nra would not be very happy. in the militia, soldiers can take home their weapons but not their ammunition. after a soldier has completed his service, he must now reapply for the right to keep his gun. the truth is many gun owners' attitudes in switzerland are very different than in the usa. >> i don't want people that walk the streets with the guns. >> up next, what to make of all these lessons from all over the world. my own thoughts coming up. with my hepatitis c,
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we in america have been remarkably passive with regards to gun violence. in the midst of an epidemic that kills most each year than over a decade in most advanced countries, we have done virtual live nothing. we hear why but what they have in common is a remarkable lack of evidence or fact. so we've tried in this program to bring facts on a debate that is usually high on emotion and convex biction but low on evide. we hear regulations will never work. so we went all over the world and found many interesting regulations and ideas that do work. people say, well, america is different because it already has many guns true, but so do switzerland and australia. the latter has a gun culture very similar to america's and yet as we saw in the aftermath of its own newtown-like
massacre, australia changed its gun laws. the results, homicides and suicides plummeted in the decade that followed. of course like all real world problems, the link between guns and violence is a complicated issue, but one rare live sees so much evidence pointing in the same direction. what we did not find was a large-scale, nationwide example where an expanded attention to mental health issues could be tied to a reduction in homicides or suicides using guns, and yet every time there is a serious gun massacre in the u.s., and alas these are fairly common, the media focuses on the twisted psychology of the shooter and asks why we don't pay more attention to treating mental illness. the attention we should be focusing on is not the specific cause of of a single shooting but why there are so many of them in america. there are other reasons fochb
given for gun violence, popular culture and violent video games, japan with its particular fascination with violent video games has a stunningly low rate of gun deaths. that leaves the argument that the second amendment makes any kind of serious gun control impossible. now, i'm not a legal historian, but you heard from two serious scholars who noted that the second amendment was not invoked for much of american history, often applied to only well-regulated state militias and for many decades did not stand in the way of gun regulation and the supreme court upheld such regulations. here's how i think about this basically. one of the most important tasks for a government is to keep its citizens, especially its children, safe on the streets and in their schools. every other developed country in