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tv   CNN Newsroom with Poppy Harlow and Jim Sciutto  CNN  September 25, 2019 6:00am-7:00am PDT

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top of the hour. good morning, everyone. i'm poppy harlow in new york. jim sciutto has the day off and we begin with breaking news. this morning we are set to learn details of what was said on president trump's call with the president of ukraine back in july. the white house says it will release a log of that call some time in the next few hours. also happening today, two sources tell cnn that the white house plans to turn over the whistle-blower complaint. we'll bring you both of those as soon as we get them. and this all comes just one day after house speaker nancy pelosi took the big step and the political risk of formally opening an official impeachment inquiry against president trump. now, several democratic sources tell cnn there's concern that
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pelosi acted too soon and should have waited for that announcement until reading the log of the ukraine call and actually seeing the whistle-blower complaint. another important development this morning, house intel chairman, adam schiff, says the whistle-blower wants to speak to his committee. that could come as early as this week. clearly there's a lot going on. we're covering this story from every angle this morning. let's begin with manu raj u on the hill. it has not even been 24 hours, and wow, how things have changed. >> reporter: yeah, no question about it. even though subtan tifly the investigations will essentially continue as they have been doing, the six different committees on capitol hill and the house have already been investigating automatll aspectse presidency, his business, and that will continue, the fact that the speaker put her blessing on moving forward with impeachment proceedings
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essentially is a green light for this house to potentially move forward to make president trump just the third president in u.s. history to be impeached. now that this investigation is formally under way, we expect a decision about whether or not to actually recommend articles of impeachment to be made before the end of the year. that's the goal, at least, of the house judiciary committee chairman jerry nadler. what will happen in the next couple of months, they'll decide exactly how to draft those articles of impeachment. if they decide to go that route, then the judiciary committee itself would vote on articles of impeachment and the majority of the house would have to vote to impeach the president. of course, to convict and remove the president would require two-thirds majority in the senate to do that and the republican-led senate is unlikely to do that. while this could be a rebuke, historic rebuke of the president, it could also be symbolic. >> absolutely.
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it's a big morning ahead. let's talk to gloria borger, and ali honing. gloria, good morning to you. >> good morning. the words that nancy pelosi used and she chose them very carefully, these two struck me, utmost gravity. we heard from manu how symbolic this is, not necessarily changing the investigation but speak to her choice of those words and also the discs thrisk the democrats are making here. >> i think there's tremendous political risk. i think nancy pelosi knows that, although she does believe that this story is a violation of the constitution, and when she heard the president speak in his own words that, so what if i mentioned joe biden, i think that kind of sealed the deal for her. this is different from russia in a lot of ways though. you have a whistle-blower who
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may testify as you were just saying, who wants to testify. you have a transcript, we don't know in what form. you have trump officials, according to reporting in "the washington post," who were scratching their heads because they thought this whole emphasis on ukraine and holding up aid was very odd and very strange and they may have been cut out of the loop. and of course you have the wild card of rudy giuliani being involved in this. was he an emissary for the president, did he and the president cook this up together outside of the state department? so it's very different from the russia investigation which had 1,000 strands. this may only have 100 strands, and she believes it's a lot more clear-cut. >> and it's progressed in a week, right, gloria? >> yes. >> it hasn't been over a year which is easier for anyone to
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digest, whether you're an expert in this or not. >> david, to you. listen to christopher wolf. here's how he sees it. >> i'm not at all surprised. they've been trying to impeach this president since literally before he was inaugurated, and wolf, i think they're going to regret it. they announced this rather than wait less than 24 hours to read the transcript and see if there's a reason for this. ms. pelosi came on and unequivocally said this president has broken his oath of office. he has betrayed national security. how in the world does she know that? this inquiry hasn't even begun. for her to make a statement as definitive as that, that's why the american people are going to view this and roll their eyes. >> maybe they'll roll their eyes and maybe they won't. we just don't know yet, david gregory, because we don't have polling from what happened in the last week. >> we don't and the congressman may absolutely be right.
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as gloria said, speaker pelosi knows how risky this is. we may look at yesterday and her decision as the moment that donald trump secured his second term. that is distincty possible. but we also know what donald trump has said he did separate from whatever the log of the call shows, the report from the inspector general or the whistle-blower, him or herself. we know the president has said, yeah, he held up the aid and he made it very clear to the president of ukraine that he should be investigating his political opponent. that is not done, potentially illegal, certainly showing an interest by the president to subordinate the role of the presidency in the interest of the country and our national security interests to his own personal political gain. so that much is true. this is an important day because whatever we learn from the call itself, if it's a transcript, if it's notes, if it's a log, that
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may be incomplete. the report is important because what other acts might be involved? does it shed light on the role of rudy giuliani who is inserting himself into this process probably at the president's behest, going outside of all the national security lanes, the state department and other national security officials. what about the inspector general himself, because in that case that's a really a rebuttal to the partisan charges about all of this because this is an independent figure, and the whistle-blower him or herself becomes very important. so there is a lot to learn and this is a political process. speaker pelosi was also judging the fact that her caucus which has been certainly the progressives moving toward impeachment based on everything that's happened, now you have more moderates and tougher districts moving for it as well. so there's a broader context, no limit, no boundaries. that's how donald trump has lived his life in business, his personal life, and it is how he's behaved as president and i think that's what has pushed the
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democrats here. >> clearly that op-ed yesterday by those seven freshman democrats that have the national security background that are in these dangerous districts for them to move this way, that clearly moved her as well. ellie, to david's point, you have said that releasing the transcript will not tell the whole story. >> right. >> what, if anything, will. >> the transcript is going to be an important piece of the puzzle but we need to see the whistle-blower complaint. we need to get all the facts and circumstances and may need to hear from rudy giuliani in an under oath context. one thing that's so important to keep in mind when we see this transcript today, first of all, you do not need a smoking gun in order to have a crime and you do not need a crime in order to impeach. people very rarely get on the phone with somebody and say, hey, let's have a quid pro quo, i'm trying to bribeextorted. >> that's a good point, you won't get the tone unless they get the audio. it's more of a real time log of the conversation someone is taking. listen to this from rudy
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giuliani. everyone listen to this. he was on fox this morning and here's what he said about the ukraine call transcript. >> mr. mayor, could i ask you, did you read the transcript? >> let's say it was read to me. >> it was read to you, the whole thing? >> i hope. >> so in it there's no pressure, there's no -- >> greg jarrett and others are quite right when they say if the president hadn't discussed the subjects he discussed with the president of ukraine, he would be a president like barack obama who closed his eyes to corruption. >> joe biden was tasked with dealing with the corruption in ukraine for the obama administration and did that, but the fact that he says -- and he's not part of the administration. he's the president's personal lawyer and he was read this transcript. is that kosher? >> rudy giuliani's involvement is problematic for donald trump and i think telling.
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why was he involved in this? if this is official united states of america business, rudy giuliani is a private civilian. he has no role in this. but if this is something to benefit donald trump personally or politically, then it makes sense that rudy giuliani was involved. why is he involved? that to me really hurts donald trump. >> gloria? >> yeah, look, who is rudy giuliani? he's the president's personal attorney. i remember during the russia investigation giuliani used to give the president's real attorneys heartburn every time he went on television, and now he has sort of insinuated himself probably at the behest of the president to help the president with the 2020 election. russia was about the 2016 election. this is about the next one, and everyone knows that giuliani does the president's bidding and there's a question here about whether this fits a pattern like birtherism, whether you concoct a story, you stir the pot and then you let it stew for the
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political base which is what i think the democrats believe this is. >> david -- >> there's another piece -- >> sure, go ahead. >> well, i just think the other piece of this, let's remember that rudy giuliani plays an important role for trump here. not only his personal henchman apparently with a broad portfolio working around the world but most importantly to somebody like donald trump, he's his tv lawyer. so he goes on tv to argue the case to sway public opinion. you know, we talk about impeachment, we talk about richard nixon. richard nixon would have loved to have the media climate that exists today, particularly fox news and other online supporters of the president who can further a spee shus story about hunter biden and former vice president joe biden where they obscure the facts but also to amplify the president's argument that is twofold, one, i didn't do anything wrong to give the best interpretation of whatever we
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learn out of these reports, logs, et cetera, and to further try to discredit democrats for just wanting to impeach the president since day one and go on some kind of witch hunt. >> i just want to ask, who read rudy giuliani the transcript? was it the president? i have no idea. >> that's a great question. i don't believe that was followed up with on the program he was on this morning. david gregory, to build on that for one second and then i want to get our kaitlan collins in here with some new reporting, some are speculating whether mcconnell would even hold the trial in the senate if it got to that point. of course, we saw the example with merrick garland. does that raise questions for you? >> yeah, it does because what is precedent is that the senate can decide exactly how any kind of trial would read or whether it
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would proceed. that's of course part of the political risk here. the house can do its duty and can pursue this political process. the senate doesn't necessarily have to go along. i think at this point certainly if you read the political tea leaves, there won't be support for this. but things are that way until they're not that way. >> sure. >> and we have to be -- we have to understand that things can change. they can also change for the worse for democrats based on what is provided and where the facts do ultimately lead. >> good point. thank you one and all. stick around. i have a feeling it's going to be a busy two hours. kaitlan collins is with me now. you've got some more reporting on the president's feeling on impeachment? >> reporter: yeah, so there has been this kind of long-standing assumption that the president wants this impeachment fight because he thinks it's going to help him politically, and there are definitely aids who have argued as much but based on our reporting from the president's reaction to nancy pelosi coming
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out yesterday announcing she was going to launch this formal impeachment inquiry, that is not what we're hearing the president -- and how he reacted to that. essentially he made this phone call to nancy pelosi yesterday morning, talked about guns for a little bit but really wanted to cut to the chase here as he's hearing growing calls for impeachment from her caucus, many more calls than we had heard previously and he wanted to talk to her about when whistle-blower's complaint. the fact that we called her speaks to the president trying to de-escalate tensions here. he wanted to ward off this clash. he didn't want it to continue to escalate as you're seeing these members call for his impeachment. the president ended that phone call, went about his day here in new york, meeting with world leaders, feeling pretty confident about it. that's when he made the decision to release this transcript of his call with the ukrainian president later on. then his administration officials started working with intelligence officials to release this whistle-blower's complaint, something they're still in the process of doing based on what our sources are telling us, and he was feeling good about things.
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so when the president got back to trump tower yesterday, the place where he launched his long shot presidential campaign, he was stunned, he said, when he heard nancy pelosi come out and announce she was actually following through with this. the president essentially thought he was going to be able to get nancy pelosi to back off of where she was headed very clearly yesterday morning. now, that may surprise some democrats who say the tea leaves were here, you knew this was coming, but the president has misread nancy pelosi before. it appears yesterday he thought he could change her mind when very clearly he couldn't. it will be interesting to see how he acts going forward but we are told the president does not want to be impeached. he's not welcoming this impeachment fight and it's not something he wants to go through, though aides are now preparing themselves for one. >> that's fascinating how much can change in a matter of hours. thank you very much. we're still waiting for that transcript of the log between president trump and the ukrainian president as this formal impeachment inquiry is
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now under way. what will that log say? i'll talk to a key adviser of president clinton, and tomorrow that big hearing with the acting director of national intelligence, justin mcguire. he testifies before the house smitty a committee and a member of that committee joins us as well. there's the amped-up, over-tuned, feeding-frenzy-of sheet-metal-kind. and then there's performance that just leaves you feeling better as a result. that's the kind lincoln's about. ♪
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giuliani was pursuing a shadow agenda with ukrainian officials. kylie at wood joins me now with the developments. it's important to reiterate he doesn't work for the american taxpayer, yet he had been inserting himself in this ukraine back and forth saga for months. >> right. and we knew he was doing that because he was publicly talking about it. he was texting reporters to flag things for them on ukraine. he was being very aggressive about these efforts. but what is interesting is that my reporting is that in early july when the ukrainian president met with state department officials, he essentially laughed off giuliani's impact that he was having. they were talking about the reforms that the trump administration wants to see the ukrainians making in terms of fighting corruption domestically in their own country. zelensky made a comment referencing the challenge of
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working with lawyers and referencing the fact that he knew giuliani was not working with the state department officials that he was sitting across the table from. fast forward a few weeks from that moment in time. then you have ukraine asking that same state department official, ambassador kurt volcker, to set up a meeting with them to connect them with rudy giuliani. now, the state department does acknowledge on the record that they connected giuliani to the ukrainian aide, but what giuliani is now saying is that he did it at the direction, that he was told that he had to have those meetings by the state department. that's where it gets a little bit murky here and that's where secretary pompeo has stayed out of it. we know that he did sign off on this -- >> release. >> -- connection that was made by ambassador kurt volcker, but he's not wading into this territory directly because it could implicate him and get him in some trouble. >> he also didn't want the log of the call released but has
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acquiesced and now we're going to see it within hours. >> sure. >> great reporting, thank you very much. this afternoon on top of all of this, it is the united nations general assembly here in new york and the president will meet with the president of ukraine. congressman mike rodgers, former congressman, former chair of the house intel committee, is with me this morning on all of it. busy morning, sir, don't you think? >> busy morning. my, does the weather change quickly. >> there you go. you chaired the intel committee. adam schiff now chairs it. they're holding a major public hearing tomorrow morning about all of this. take me through the key questions you would ask him and what will get the most clarity and answers to the american people. >> well, first and foremost, i think the committee's responsibility is to the ongoing adversarial intelligence threat, terrorist threat, cyber threat. i hope they spend time on doing that because remember, you can't let this thing engulf everything that the government is doing, or
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shame on all of us. the community, the intelligence community, needs robust oversight. it needs both encouragement, it needs advice from counsel and of course it needs money, all of those things the intelligence committee when it's fully functioning can do that. i think at the end of it you will not be able to avoid some of the questions and i wouldn't get down to try to get too many details or too many movements in an intelligence committee hearing but i would press the director for either the report or allowing -- he should give the wink and the nod that this whistle-blower should be able to come to the committee directly. i think again this is a long and painful process that's going to happen anyway. they might as well cooperate to get this information out. if they honestly believe there's no problem, then they should escalate this as fast as they can. >> isn't a key question as well to him, you know, the letter of
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the law here is pretty clear, you have seven days to turn this over to congress, why didn't you, why were you compelled to block it? >> i think that's a question he will get. i'm sure he's prepared to answer it. i think he's in a very bad spot. department of justice knows that's executive privilege information, you can't release that information. does he have the ability to go around that decision, i'm not sure. >> he didn't need to go to the department of justice. that's the thing, he never needed to go. that's not the route that's laid out in a scenario like this but he did. let me ask you to get the response to what the president just wrote. will the democrats apologize after seeing the call from the ukrainian president. they should. a perfect call got them by surprise. there are some democrats this morning, kma who are saying per it would have been more prudent for nancy pelosi to wait 24 hours, 48 hours to see the transcript of the call, to see the testimony tomorrow, to see
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the whistle-blower report, and that this could backfire politically for democrats. what's your read? >> listen, and i've kind of been on this band wagon for a while. they wanted to impeach this president for everything from the emoluments clause to conclusion, they came out and said we have evidence, we didn't have evidence, i think the democrats credibility is at risk here. number two, you're embarking on something that will create real division in the united states. my argument is if you're going to do that, get it right, and you don't know. i've seen lots of democrats on tv today -- i'm not saying there isn't something here. this looks really bad, but as an investigative prospect, get the facts down first. if you listen to them, they're saying i think he's guilty of a, b and c, and oh by the way i'm doing going to get the facts. i think that's not helpful to their cause if that's what they want to do, number one. and number two, remember, impeachment is going to be very
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divisive so do it right. that's my whole point. >> i hear you. the question becomes, we know there's an a and a b. the question is, is there a c. is there a link and we don't know. mike rodgers, we're out of time. we'll have you back maybe even tomorrow. thank you so much. as we mentioned, the acting director of national intelligence, joseph mcguire, will face the house intel committee tomorrow. what will he be asked? we'll talk to one of the members of congress on that panel, next. at fidelity, we believe your money should always be working harder. that's why your cash automatically goes into a money market fund when you open a new account. and fidelity's rate is higher than e*trade's, td ameritrade's, even 9 times more than schwab's. plus only fidelity has zero account fees and zero minimums for retail brokerage and retirement accounts. just another reminder of the value you'll only find at fidelity. open an account today.
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all right, at any moment the white house is expected to release what it says is the unredacted log of the president's phone call with the president of ukraine. some time today we should also get that whistle-blower complaint that there's been so much fighting over. both developments significant, this as house speaker nancy pelosi officially launches an impeachment inquiry into the president. meantime, the house intelligence committee is preparing to question the director of national intelligence, joseph mcguire tomorrow morning. this is after mcguire told lawmakers last week that he didn't receive enough notice. my guest sits on that committee. let's begin with impeachment. you called for this back in july after the mueller report came
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out, before mueller testified. adam schiff, the chairman of your committee, did not but he has this week. here's what he said on cnn this morning. this is the, quote, most serious misconduct of the president thus far, referring to ukraine. do you agree with him? >> i do. it's egregious, even for donald trump, because it puts his campaign ahead of our national security. that's number one. number two, it's easy to understand. the mueller report was somewhat confusing but this is pretty easy to understand. the president basically withheld aide in order to try to extract assistance for his campaign which put the national security of the people in jeopardy. >> here's the thing, congressman, you're going a bridge further than the facts do right now, right? we know that he pressed for an investigation of biden and his son. we know that he withheld $400 million in aid for ukraine around the same time. we just don't have the quid pro quo. we're going to get a lot of
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information in the next day or 48 hours. if the transcript of the log doesn't show that there was a quid pro quo and if the whistle-blower complaint doesn't bear out to show that, does that exculpate the president? >> it wouldn't exculpate him. those are obviously very relevant and the president withheld them initially and now we're going to get them and that's a good thing but here's what you do know by the president's own admissions. number one, you know that he made a phone call to the president of ukraine in which he asked the president to do an investigation that would benefit his campaign. his request about the biden investigation had nothing to do with american national security. number two, you know that before he made that phone call he directed mick mulvaney, his chief of staff, to sit on the $391 million of aid. number three, what you know is that there was administration involvement in telling
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mr. maguire, the director of national intelligence, not to comply with the statute that directed that within seven days he provide the whistle-blower complaint to the intelligence committees. so those three things are things that the president himself has admitted. >> so that to you, congressman, sounds like it's enough for you on those three points to move forward on impeachment but there is some trepidation among democrats, some democrats this morning privately to cnn are telling us that they fear that nancy pelosi moved too quickly on this and it would have been more prudent had she waited for the log of the call to come out, for the whistle-blower complaint to come out, for the testimony to happen tomorrow before making this jump. and the president just tweeted to that effect this morning as well. should she have waited? >> i think she has waited. she's been extremely patient and as you know, pelosi has been the one that's been holding the caucus back from proceeding on impeachment. i think what happened here is the three things i just mentioned were shocking to her and it was a level of
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misconduct, putting the national security in jeopardy for political benefit. but there is going to be risk on it, there's no question. >> there's going to be risk for democrats politically you're saying. hold that thought. tell me monre on that on the other side of this because here's your fellow member of congress, republican chris stewart of utah. here's how he sees it. >> i'm not at all surprised. they've been trying to impeach this president since literally before he was inaugurated, and wolf, i think they're going to regret it. they announced this rather than wait less than 24 hours to read the transcript and see if there's a reason for this. and ms. pelosi came on and she unequivocally said this president has broken his oath of office. he has betrayed national security. how in the world does she know that? this inquiry hasn't even begun. for her to make a statement as definitive as that, that's why the american people are going to view this and roll their eyes. >> you said there's risk for democrats here. how grave is the risk?
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>> there's risk either way. i mean, the fact is that the president's conduct, particularly in this case, goes beyond anything we've ever seen, even with president trump. and there is an enormous amount of concern among many of the american people that we hold him accountable and uphold the constitutional standard of government. but there's going to be a huge pushback. mr. stewart i think reflected accurately what we're going to be hearing from the republican side who will try to diminish what the president did. my hope, by the way, is that on our committee, the intelligence committee, that we're together, republicans and democrats, in demanding that we do get the whistle-blower report. there should be -- go ahead. >> we're running out of time, can you just give us a quick sense of the most pressing question you have tomorrow for the acting dni? >> there's a lot of noise here so i think i heard you but the question i think for mr. mcguire is, the law says that you are
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required, you shall within seven days transmit that report. why didn't you do it? who intervened? who told you not to and why. >> we will all be watching. we'll have special coverage on the hearing tomorrow. congressman, i appreciate your time this morning. thank you so much. >> thank you. still to come, we are waiting to get that log of the call between president trump and ukrainian's president as this formal impeachment inquiry is under way in the house. what is former vice president joe biden saying about all of this? that's next. biopharmaceutical researchers. driven each day to pursue life-changing cures... in a country built on fostering innovation.
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our members, are the mission. all right, this morning former vice president joe biden is back out on the campaign trail after accusing president trump of abuse of power for pressing ukrainian's president to investigate the bidens. cnn correspondent jessica dean is with me. good morning, jess. i thought it was interesting what biden said last night, essentially like, i can take it. this doesn't bother me, but our republican cannot stand for this. >> that's right, good morning to you, poppy. that has been their message and as you'll recall, this has been their entire campaign, that president trump has ripped at the fibers of what makes america america. we hear him say over and over
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again he's running to restore the soul of a nation but up until yesterday he had not explicitly -- he really hadn't called for impeachment but yesterday he came out and he said, look, if president trump won't supply with what congress is asking of him, then congress is going to have no choice but to move forward with impeachment. and he said this is a tragedy but a tragedy of the president's making. take a listen. >> i can take the political attacks. they'll come and they'll go and in time they'll soon be forgotten. but if we allow a president to get away with shredding the united states constitution, that will last forever. >> and if you think about the strategy of team biden around this whole situation, if you look at that video we just played for you, you'll notice it looks very presidential. the visuals there of the flag, of vice president biden standing at the podium, it's going back
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to what the biden campaign has said all along, that vice president biden is the man to do this job, that he can do this, and it really, they're hoping, can crystallize their position on this, poppy, and do two things, remind people that president biden is the right person to take on trump and remind people what's at stake in this election. we hear him saying over and over again since this has happened, since this has come about, that the reason that president trump is attacking him is because he's afraid of him. expect to hear more of that messaging too as we go on in the coming days. >> all right, jessica dean, thank you so much. appreciate it. what is the next step in this now official impeachment inquiry? we'll lay it out. it's a consequential process. with me will be a former adviser to president clinton during his impeachment proceeding. that's ahead. you got a minute?
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well, this morning the president joins a small club if you will. he is just one of four american presidents ever to face a serious impeachment threat. how does this play out now that nancy pelosi's opened a formal impeachment inquiry. six separate committee investigations will continue. from there a decision will be made on whether to draft articles of impeachment. with me someone very familiar with how the process works, guy smith. he served as special adviser to
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president clinton during his impeachment proceedings. good morning. >> good morning. >> thank you for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> walk us through this. where does this go from here? >> where this goes from here are the six committees in the house now have even strengthened investigatory powers. the courts will pay more and closer and quicker attention to what is being unfolded. now, we also will see later today what's in this transcript. >> sure. >> the mueller report was amorphous. it was easy to spin. barr distorted it. what trump has admitted to and guilliani has already admitted to clearly violates a law, is clearly unethical, soliciting help from a foreign power is against the law. it is easy for people to understand. >> it is interesting that you say that this will give the courts a reason to expedite because you have five major outstanding court cases between the trump administration and the house. you've got, you know, three cases over the president's tax
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returns. >> the judiciary reacts more quickly by precedent to an official inquiry. >> that matters. >> it matters. >> and i think it is not getting headlines but it certainly matters. let's talk about the risk for democrats. flip this thing on its head, let's go back to 1998. we saw the political repercussions for republicans after the impeachment of president clinton. so for democrats right now? >> no, there's not a risk for democrats, and here is why. >> peter welch, democratic congressman respectfully told me -- and he's on the intel committee -- there is a risk for democrats. >> there's not. >> why? >> and here is why. all of this impeachment activity and trump's behavior has been contracting his base. not the red hat people, they'll never change. think about the edges of his base, white women, independents in suburbs, even farmers now, and he does nothing to expand his base. now we have the ukraine thing that everybody can see, everybody can understand.
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it is not hard to understand what he has done, and there will be even more questions coming from the transcript and the whistle-blower. >> so let's play this out. you don't think there's a risk for democrats, even of nancy pelosi -- some of her democratic colleagues think she may have jumped the gun here, making this announcement that she has been so hesitant to make before getting the log of the call, before hearing the acting dni testify, before getting the whistle-blower complaint, you don't think she jumped the gun at all? >> no, it doesn't matter. they should have done it sooner because then they would have been further along with the courts. remember, there's not going to be a conviction in the senate. just the votes are not there. now, things could change the way they did with watergate. nixon was at 68% approval when the hearings first began. after a year he was where trump starts today.
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and then howard baker asked that famous question and it all collapsed. >> that's the question, is there a howard baker? >> i don't think so. but that's still not the point. the point is trump can't sustain a reelection with this drip, drip, drip. >> that's interesting. you believe, guy, that the way this may play out is that it will politically cost the president -- which may cost him the 2020 election? >> that's right. >> but you do -- but that's the process you are saying, impeachment proceedings help the democrats on that front? >> that's right. it will be more and more revelations. remember, even in the mueller report there are 12 referrals to u.s. prosecutorial jurisdictions that nobody knows anything about, but what we do know is none of them are going to be any good for donald trump. there will only be more revelations that chips further away at his base, especially in states like michigan and wisconsin and pennsylvania. his campaign has already said they're giving up on michigan. already his campaign said that. >> how damaging -- i haven't heard them say that, but how
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damaging to the republic, to democracy is impeachment in general? >> it is not damaging. it is strengthening because it shows that we can govern ourselves, that we're not governed by people, we are governed by laws. that's why the whole process -- >> you think the impeachment of president clinton was strengthening to the democracy? >> it showed where people were because he became more popular. >> this is true. >> and it was about a single blue dress. trump has dozens of blue dresses. >> this is for another segment. guy smith, we are out of time. thank you very much. >> thank you for having me. >> i appreciate it. any minute we're expecting the release of the log of the phone call between president trump and his ukrainian counterpart. stay with us for that. and it's definitely not "close enough or nothing." mercedes-benz suvs were engineered with only one mission in mind. to be the best. in the category, in the the world.
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zbrnchs th this is "cnn breaking news." top of the hour. i'm poppy harlow in new york. we have two significant developments breaking right now, the trans script of the call between president trump and his ukrainian counterpart has just been released. let's bring in our pamela brown. what does it say? >> this is five-page transcript. it appears to be a nearly complete transcript of the july call, poppy, where president trump asked ukrainian president zelensky several times to collaborate with attorney general barr and


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