tv CNN Newsroom CNN September 28, 2012 11:00am-12:00pm EDT
your doctor needs to be aware that you're going to get snore opinion so they can incorporate that opinion into their plan. tell your doctor that it is not that you question their judgment but you just want to get more information. the big thing is this. if you're out there looking for a fourth, sixth, seventh opinion and trying to get a doctor to tell you what you want to hear, you will eventually hear what you want to hear, but doing that can put your health in jeopardy. make sure you're getting a second opinion because you need it and you want it and you want more information and at some point you just have to accept the news even if it is not what you want to hear. >> good advice. i am carol costello. thank you so much for joining me. have a great weekend. "cnn newsroom" continues now with ashley banfield. carol costello, thank you very much. i am ashley banfield. let's get right down to business. a couple guys that never seem to hit it off in the first place are expected to talk on the phone today. i bring to your attention because the fate of the world is at stake. you may roll your eyes.
don't. the guys in question are president obama and israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu and a whole lot was made of the fact they did not meet in person when they both travelled to new york for the u.n. general assembly and the white house wants you to know they do stay in touch, that there are phones in the white house and the u.s.-israeli relationship is air tight. mr. netanyahu just seemed to take great pains to smooth over what had seemed like friction between himself and our commander in chief all over how the world should respond to iran. >> i very much appreciate the president's position as does everyone in my country. we share the goal of stopping the iran's nuclear weapons program. this goal you nights the people of israel. it you nights americans, democrats, and republicans alike and it is shared by important leaders throughout the world.
>> dan lothian is joining me live from the white house. a two-part question off the bat. has the phone call happened yet and is this more about appearances, objects, just shutting everybody up? >> two good questions there. first of all, i am sold by senior administration official the call has not yet happened, that it will take place sometime later today and that after that call we will get some kind of readout, perhaps a paper statement that will give us a few brief lines what the leaders discussed. it comes at an interesting time here as you were pointing out, this debate as to why president obama did not meet face-to-face with benjamin netanyahu in new york. the white house said it was a scheduling matter because the president was there early in the week. prime minister netanyahu was there the latter part of the week and they point out the two leaders talk frequently and jay carney making the point to say that a couple of weeks ago the president did speak with him by phone for more than an hour, so they're trying to show that there is this line of communication taking place here,
but i think what's interesting to note is that yesterday we were tipped off about this phone call taking place today. that is quite unusual. the way this usually works is that the president has a phone call with a world leader, there is a readout that comes later on. sometimes we don't even get a readout. in fact, jay carney likes to say they don't read out every single phone call. perhaps it is indication of the pressure the white house is feeling for not having a face-to-face meeting. >> and for his part governor romney is also scheduled to have a telephone call with benjamin netanyahu today. is this about politics? is this necessary. how did that get on the agenda? >> perhaps a little of both. mitt romney who has been critical saying the president has thrown israel under the bus recently saying the obama administration has a, quote, chronic disregard for the security of israel, so now in the same day that the president will be having this phone call with benjamin netanyahu, mitt romney's campaign saying he,
too, will be speaking with him by phone. this is a chance for mitt romney to again show that he is a friend to israel and that he is committed to making sure that iran does not acquire a nuclear weapon. >> okay. dan lothian at the white house. thanks very much, live for us this morning. it merits repeating that they have had a strained relationship almost from day one. here with me to talk about the diplomatic implications, foreign affairs reporter elise levitt. you have been watching this all week and seen all the accusations. is what dan just reported on enough to smooth the ruffled feathers? is this over? >> these guys don't love each other. they don't love the different styles and i think both of them wanted to provoke each other a little bit. the reason they never mitt, prime minister netanyahu saying strong words about president obama and what he perceived as foot-dragging on the so-called red line on iran and so
president obama kind of said, not going to meet with you. >> enough of that. >> and i think at the end of the day these two countries, they do work very closely together and the issue of iran is so important, and there are fundamental disagreements not necessarily on the scope and pace of iran's nuclear program but how to go about it and what that threshold would be for military action and that's what the two leaders will be talking about. >> threshold. thank you for bringing that up. i was watching yesterday prime minister netanyahu pulling up the considartoonish fake bomb. look. it shows the point before iran completes the second stage of nuclear enrichment to make a bomb would be the red line. he brought out the sharpy. critical? it is not as though he needs to appeal to the people in the room. they know what this is about. is he appealing to the american public? is he looking to try to make election hits here? what was he doing? >> i think he was trying to show
the urgency and this cartoon and everything and a little gimmicky, but got everyone's attention to the fact that they believe that iran could have a nuclear weapon by next spring or next summer. basically the difference is about when to go about this. israel feels before iran gets all the components and goes to assemble, president obama has laid out a red line. he said that if i see iran having all the goods, all the ingredients and building a nuclear bomb, i will act. he just doesn't like that red line. >> and let me ask you this. i know that you and i get a chance to talk off air a lot about, come on, what is this? what is everyone saying behind the scenes? i want to know if people are concerned behind the scenes when the rhetoric is loud or if there is another time they get worried. >> personally, me and a lot of analysts and officials that i talk to, they're not necessarily right now worried that iran is going to launch a -- that israel is going to launch a preemptive strike against iran.
when you don't here netanyahu going in front of a world audience making a red line or speaking loud or saying things and the atmosphere is very quiet and it is very hush-hush, that's when i would worry about whether there is something going on behind the scenes that we need to worry about. >> as long as we have the description by acme of the bomb, it is not as bad as it seems. >> a little bit of time but not a lot. >> nice to see you in new york this week for the u.n. g 8. state with cnn for the latest on all of this and the expected phone call between president obama and prime minister netanyahu and the other phone call with governor romney. we'll bring you the details as soon as they're available. quick break. i was talking to my best friend. i told her i wasn't feeling like myself... i had pain in my pelvic area... and bleeding that wasn't normal for me.
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cymbalta can help. go to cymbalta.com to learn about a free trial offer. so i brought it to mike at meineke. we gave her car a free road handling check. i like free. free is good. my money. my choice. my meineke. i am sure you heard the expression getting a second chance in life. we have breaking news. an american has literally been given a second chance to live. a philadelphia judge just ruled that terry williams will not be executed on october 3rd. we talked about this case on this program last week. this man was scheduled to be put to both on wednesday next week for brutally killing another man in the '80s. there is no doubt he is guilty. let's state that. it is obvious. but, and there is a big but, his
lawyers say that he did this because he had been repeatedly raped by the man he killed and that the jurors were not given all the evidence. >> the prosecutors knew that mr. norwood was alleged to have been abusing children, was never revealed before. they wanted this to be about a robbery, and that's the way they shaded the testimony. >> so today the judge in the case has decided that he does not deserve to die but he does deserve to spend the rest of his life in prison. jason carol joins me and you have been following this. i am trying to remember all the facts of the case and whether this was an expected decision, a surprise, and i am not sure i can put my finger on either. >> as i was sitting in the court last week, to me it was not unexpected simply from the way that the judge was questioning the prosecution about their case. if i can just backtrack just a little bit, what was happening is both sides were in front of a common appeals court judge
teresa simeno and the prosecution was saying we did not suppress evidence in this case back in 1984. this did not happen. if anyone wanted to talk about these allegations of sexual abuse at the time, terrance williams could have done that. the defense is saying no way, this is what happened here. you had evidence back then in 1984 that amos norwood had a sexual relationship. >> the victim. >> the victim, with terrance williams and not only that, you also had evidence back in 1984 that amos norwood, the victim in the case, had been abusing other boys as well, and you didn't turn that over to the defense. well, the judge listened to both sides and said to the defense you're right, this evidence should have been turned over to the defense back in 1984. the jurors should have had an opportunity to hear that when they were making their decision. jurors didn't have an opportunity to hear that and, ashley, you know this. i interviewed one of the jurors from 1984 just last week. they said had i known then what
i know now, i would not have voted for the death penalty. >> not just that juror. already other jurors and actually isn't it the widow of amos as well has come out saying i am not so sure i am comfortable with this death penalty? do i have my wires crossed? >> the widow came out and said that she did not think it would be appropriate at this point for williams to be executed. >> wow. >> she did say that. so at this point here is what's going to happen. the judge has ruled that a new penalty phase is in order. she has stayed the execution which means williams will not at least at this point be executed october 3rd. what does the new penalty phase mean? it means both sides will now reargue their case in front of a jury and the jurors this time will get a chance to hear about those allegations of sexual abuse. >> and when you say argue the case, only the penalty portion of the case, that trial portion which is just so thick and rich with material -- >> that's done. >> that's done. this is a new panel. it is so -- i am not sure that
justice can be done this much after the fact with the brand new group of people who never sat through the trial. jason carroll, excellent reporting. thank you for that. stay for a minute. as we bring you this breaking news that terry williams reprieve, not going to be executed, our legal contributor is also live in atlanta for me. wow. i like to call these things chewy, legal issues and it is great that you're here today to talk about this. you're going to have to walk me through this a bit. i am trying to rack my brain to find out why there is no issue of double jeopardy here, why there is a second penalty phase. once there is an adjudication where someone gets a reprieve, how you can you redecide death? >> here is why there is no double jeopardy. in this particular situation the jury is just going to be deciding whether the sentence was appropriate or not. double jeopardy applies when someone has been found not guilty and new evidence comes and the prosecution wants to try them again.
the constitution prohibits a retrial. >> wait, wait. before you go further, i get that. in certain circumstances when states over turn death penalties like charles manson was on death row and then california decided, you know, it is not for us, the death penalty is not for us, whack to the death penalty now, his death penalty was over turned. he is in for life now. and he can never go back to a death penalty because that would be considered double jeopardy. correct me if i'm wrong. >> well, the point you're raising is can death be rei am imposed in the penalty phase and i don't think it is clear it can be. i haven't seen the judge's decision. it is quite possible because, remember, he doesn't even have to get life without parole now maybe because he has been in for so long. maybe because the judge wants to give him a lighter sentence because of these facts that are now known. it is going to be a lighter sentence. i don't know that the death penalty will even be in play in the new trial. i think it is going to definitely be a lesser offense,
but bear in mind something else. you were talking about it earlier about the rich history of this case and the brutal facts of the original murder. all of that is going to come out again, and i will tell you why. the jury gets to take into consideration how the murder took place. whether it was a rage killing based on this abuse, sexual abuse, or as they said in the first trial, that it was a straight robbery, and that's why this thing was so important. jurors, if they think it is a rage killing because you are killing somebody who abused you, they're very unlikely to sentence somebody to death. >> makes a difference. let me ask you an important question about jurors and their opinions after the fact. the juror that jason carol interviewed said had i know, i never would have. jurors have often said that. legally, we don't often have to give jurors some of those kinds of bits and pieces of information because it can be prejudicial for the wrong reasons. in this particular case this juror said we never knew that life in prison without parole
was an option, and had we known, we would have voted differently. you're not allowed to know about that stuff anywhere, are you? >> no, you're not. in fact, we know, because we've had reporters interviewed the jurors, their opinions are totally irrelevant. the judge did not take that into consideration. what the judge looks at is one thing. if the jury had this one piece of evidence that this guy had been sexually abused by the person he murdered, if they had that in their hands, could that have affected the sentence? the judge said, you know something, it absolutely could have. that's why the judge has ordered a new penalty phase, and as i said, i have not seen the decision, so i don't know what the judge has ordered in terms of whether the death penalty remains in play or not. >> we're working on it. >> i have to look at that and read that before i can give you a firm opinion on it. this is big. >> you stay put if you can, paul, if you have time. i have other legal issues i want to talk about and get the decision in our hands and since it is breaking news chew on this a little further and in the meantime, stay put.
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i am just not sick of it at all. this campaign trail is completely awash with foreign policy snipes and criticism over the economy and crippled unemployment rate. when it comes to health care, crickets. radio silence. despite the issue completely dominating the debate for most of the year. it does not mean you don't care about health care and that it has disappeared from the agendas. oh, no. here is dr. sanjay gupta with their positions and their plans when it comes to your health. >> since president obama's health care law was enacted 3.1 million people under the age of 26 will covered by their parents' plans and preventive care is covered 100% by insurance companies. seniors in particular have benefitted on prescription drugs. >> seniors who fall in the coverage gap known assist the doughnut hole will start getting help. they will receive $250 to help pay for prescriptions and that will over time fill in the
doughnut hole. >> 5.5 million seniors saved a total of nearly $4.5 billion on prescription drugs since the law was enacted. that's according to the health and human services department. >> i have strengthened medicare. we have added years to the life of medicare. we did it by getting rid of taxpayers subsidies to insurance companies that weren't making people healthier. >> by 2014 the law requires everyone to have health insurance, whether they purchase it themselves or through their employers. insurers cannot deny you if you have a preexisting condition or increase your rates. in hopes of covering more people the law plans to expand medicaid to the states with the aim of covering 17 million more people. the supreme court ruled in june that it was up to each state to decide whether to expand coverage. the law has become a cornerstone of the obama campaign. >> i refuse to eliminate health insurance for millions of americans who are poor and elderly or disabled all so those
with the most can pay less. >> romney says the affordable care act is unaffordable. >> we know that health care is too expensive. obama care doesn't make it less expensive. >> romney and paul ryan propose to cap malpractice insurance, cut medicaid by $810 billion over the next ten years, give states more control over their medicaid funds, overhaul medicare. the overhaul, people now younger than 55. when they reach retirement, would have the option of getting a voucher to purchase private insurance or they could stick with traditional medicare. >> this financial support system is designed to guarantee that seniors can always afford medicare coverage no exceptions. >> while the repeal of obama care would get rid of the prescription drug benefit to seniors, romney doesn't want to take out all of the law's provisions. >> we have to make sure that people who have preexisting
conditions are able to get insured and that folk that is get sick do not get dropped. >> the president of the american action forum doesn't support the current law. >> both sides agree the amount we spend on medicare has to be capped. they just disagree on how to get there. romney and ryan say what we're going to do is the give the money to seniors, give them a place to go shop for competing choices and if they don't like the care they go to another choice and that will meet the cap. >> he supports the law and writes about health care for the new republic. >> the obama budget says we want to hold down costs to this target and we're going to do our very best to accomplish that. we're also not going to sacrifice benefits. no matter what happens, we will make sure that seniors get the same level of benefits they're getting now. >> both obama and romney agree that health care needs to be more affordable. they just disagree about how to do that.
>> dr. sanjay gupta, cnn reporting. the writer's desktop and the coordinator's phone are working on a joke with local color. the secure cloud just received a revised intro from the strategist's tablet. and while i make my way into the venue, the candidate will be rehearsing off of his phone. [ candidate ] and thanks to every young face i see out there. [ woman ] his phone is one of his biggest supporters. [ female announcer ] with cisco at the center... working together has never worked so well.
i know they're out there chanting at his events four more years. let me ask you this. do you want four more years with 23 million people struggling to find a job? >> you know, that's the kind of thing we hear a lot, especially from christine romans who happens to be sitting on the set with me right now. jobs, jobs, jobs. look at these. she throws these on my desk all the time and expects me to make sense of it in seconds flat. i wanted to play that sound bite before your segment today because there has been some rejigging of economic news that may throw water on the powerful linchpin of the campaign. >> economists, government economists are always scrubbing and redoing the numbers. we now know after having redone, revised 2011 numbers that the labor department says the president is now technically a net job creator, and here is
why. he lost 4.3 million jobs in the first year of the administration and the new data shows that 4.4 million have been added back since then. he is up 125,000 jobs over the four-year period. technically the talking point that the republicans used that he is the obama job market, the obama economy, net fewer jobs today than when obama took office, now no longer true. >> that talking point is gone. however, doesn't mean there is a great talking point for the administration. >> can the democrats fight this one? it is not a great one. >> they're not spiking the football because they have no reason and there is another number, the labor participation rate. many people will say the most important number is 1981, the last time you had so few americans actually in the labor market, such a small share of americans in the labor market. people have become disgruntled, lost their way, been shut out of the labor market, and so that is a troubling sign.
you want more people involved in the american labor market, the most dynamic in the world. >> they may not be able to spike the football but say look what we got handed and at least we have come out of that. >> i think they can't be going on with what we got handed anymore. they didn't make the problem. they haven't fixed the problem either. how are they going to fix it? >> you do this this fast? you figure this out? you are so smart. >> wait a minute. kitty makes this. this is like some magic that comes out of her computer. i am just the numbers girl. >> romans 2015. thank you, christine. do appreciate that. thank you very much. i want to take you to afghanistan for a moment. women typically don't really have a place in society there. trust me. been there. they don't. islamic extremists often use violence to keep girls from getting an education. there is one woman that braved all of that to set up a free school for girls near kabul. she is this week's cnn hero. in afghanistan most of the
girls have no voice. they are used as property of a family. the picture is very grim. my name is razia jan, and i am the founder of a girls school in afghanistan. when we opened the school in 2008, 90% of them could not write their name. today 100% of them are educated. they can read. they can write. i lived in the u.s. for over 38 years, but i was really affected by 9/11. i really wanted to prove that muslims are not terrorists. i came back here in 2002. girls have been the most oppressed, and i thought i have to do something. it was a struggle in the beginning. i would sit with these men, and i would tell them don't marry them when they're 14 years old. they want to learn.
>> how do you write your father's name? after five years the men, they're proud of their girls. when they themselves can write their name. >> very good. >> still, we have to take this and give girls options. so many people are so much against girls getting educated. we provide free education to over 350 girls. i think it is like a fire that will grow every year my hope becomes more, i think, i can see the future. top 10 cnn hero honorees for 2012 have been revealed and this is where you come in. you can vote now for your choice for hero of the year. just go to cnnheroes.com and vote to your heart's content. what is that? it's you!
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in the wake of a veritable slew of swing state polls leaning solidly in obama's column, we do have two that are neck and neck, so have a look at this. nbc news and "wall street journal" likely voters in the state of nevada suggesting that president obama still holds a lead but only a two-point lead. look at the margin, 3.1. that's critical. same gap, same order, state north carolina. 48% backing the president. 46% backing mitt romney. again, check it out. there is a margin. we also have some new nationwide
poll of polls and here the president holds a 4-point lead and as we like to remind you there is no sampling error, so those are the numbers. that's why it is critical to bring in my friend and colleague wolf blitzer. i will give you props right off the top of this segment, mr. blitzer because yesterday you were talking about how the polls were criticized by the romney campaign because they're somehow skewed but this poll of polls we did factored in fox news. you can't make that same claim. way to go. only one day after you said that we factored in the fox numbers. >> the fox poll is a good poll. it is very reliable like the nbc poll or the cbs or the abc and certainly our own cnn poll and all of these, you get a snapshot. you get a friend of what's going on right now. that doesn't mean it is going to continue to go on next week or three weeks from now but it is a snapshot of what's going on. when i look at the polls, i like
to see where they were a month ago, two weeks ago, where they are now so you can see some trends. i always point out as you know, ashley, as important as the national polls are, the battleground state polls in ohio and virginia and florida, for example, these are the critical polls because that will determine who gets the 270 electoral votes. >> let me get you onto another topic that's making news today, the debates. both of the sis are taking great pains it seems to lower the expectations for their candidates. let me start with a memo that came from mitt romney's senior advisor beth myers. i will read. president obama is widely regarded as one of the most talented political communicators in modern history. this will not eighth one-on-one presidential debate of his political career. for mitt romney it will be his first. i suppose the question is it is games man ship on most accounts but does it work? >> they're trying to lower expectations. they're trying to make the other side seem fabulous, great debaters if you will. i think everybody is onto what they're saying in advance of the
debates. i think they're both solid debaters, the president of the united states, i moderate rated four debates four years ago when he did debates and didn't have to do any this cycle because no one was challenging him for the democratic presidential nomination. i did moderate four last time including that final one-on-one debate that he did with hillary clinton at the kodak theater in los angeles and he is very good and hillary clinton i thought was a better debater and ironically joe biden and chris dodd did really well and the president obviously got the democratic nomination. he is a very solid debater. i moderate rated four republican presidential debates with mitt romney and i have the same feeling about him. very solid. knows his stuff. these will be really good debates. they both know their stuff and i am looking forward to it and i am not lowering or raising anybody's expectations. i think the challenge will be on both to get the job done 90 minutes. there are strict rules as you
know next wednesday night, how long they can speak and rebuttle and what the moderators can do if you will and so it will be good. it will be good television. i think the undecided voters will get a better chance. >> i tell you what. i got to make sure viewers know that it is not just mitt romney's camp that's been doing this, that president obama's camp has lowered skpp stations as well saying that, look, mitt romney's had the primary season. he is seasoned. he has been practicing. they're both doing it. let me switch gears quickly. you have to comment on the todd akin issue. the deadline passed for the missouri senate candidate to back out of the race after the controversial remarks about rape, et cetera. now he has come with another comment. i was astounded. he is referring to his challenger, claire mccaskill, as having saying the incumbent, excuse me, saying in 2006 mccaskill had a confidence and was very much more sort of ladylike.
ladylike. is this getting -- i don't know what that means. for crying out loud, it is 2012. is it getting traction? >> he is a nightmare for the republican establishment. mitch mcconnell, the republican leader in the senate would so much like to be the majority leader replacing harry reid, but if mccaskill wins in missouri, and she was in deep, deep trouble until he made all the ridiculous comments we're familiar with by now, she has a good chance of getting herself re-elected, and the problem is ebb he could bring relatively vulnerable republican senatorial candidates down as well, scott brown in massachusetts, linda mcmahon running for the senate seat in connecticut, so this could potentially be a nightmare if a lot of the establishment republicans change their mind and decide to go into missouri and raise money for them and provide money for them and help them out and i don't think they'll do that given what they have said about him but he is
getting a little support even newt gingrich the other day came out and said you have to help this guy. it is a problem for republicans because, remember, in 2008 and they had a shot in 2010 i should say, and they had a shot of getting the majority, but they put some weak candidates up, whether in delaware, colorado, nevada, and they got the minority status in the senate as a result. >> i tell you what. there are a couple of republicans who were throwing him under the bus when the legitimate rape comments came out and as soon as they knew they were stuck with i am had, holy cow. >> the chairman of the republican party, the republican presidential nominee. if they changes their minds and go ahead and work for him, that will be a problem. >> and people that threw him under the bus back then, many of them have come back and said this guy is great, behind him 100%. wolf, thank you. always love it when you're on my program and love it when you're on your program. situation room, 4:00 eastern. big tease for the show. thank you, wolf. we're just days away as well from the debate that wolf was
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it is one of the most notorious unsolved cases in u.s. history, the disappearance and the death of former teamster boss jimmy hoffa. now police have a brand new lead, all these years later. crews in fact were digging at this home just outside of detroit just this morning. the investigators have taken a few samples to determine if there may be any human remains buried here and all because of a tip, a tip that came from a man who had this information for the last 37 years and an author and an expert on hoffa gave us this insight about the tipster on early start. >> he is a gambler who had an affiliation, a connection with a book maker in detroit who was working with tony giacalone. what's interesting is tony giacalone is one of the two people jimmy hoffa was supposed to meet.
>> he tells cnn he thinks the tip is credible although he is not convinced they will find jimmy hoffa's body. memo. there have been tips before that have been considered credible and turned out to be nothing. let me move onto this. a man that allegedly made the anti-islam video caused a real bunch of problems around the world. blamed for the deadly protests in the muslim world and now he is under arrest. it is official. nakoula basseley nakoula is accused of violating his own probation from a check fraud conviction that he got two years ago. the judge said no bail for you. the judge said that he has been engaged in a pattern of deception and even said he could be a flight risk.
that horrifying movie theater massacre in aurora, colorado. the court there just released some records that may shed some new light on this case and this man, including details about his personal notebook. some have called it a journal. whatever it was, he mailed it to his university psychiatrist. i want to get straight to jim spellman, our cnn correspondent on the ground in denver who is with us now by phone. jim, this is critical that the court has been weighing so heavily on this notebook. at last blush the prosecutors dumped their efforts to get their hands on this notebook, but now we're hearing that the chain of custody, the way it's been man handled may be a big problem in this case. >> well, you know, it's really interesting how this notebook even came to anybody's attention. we've discovered in these documents that the defense team for holmes went to the university and said there is a notebook, there's a package that will be mailed to you in the mailroom.
we want it. because of that and because of all the explosives in holmes' apartments they notify the police. bomb squads came. they got a look at the outside of it, the police there on site. since then after just examine it to be sure it's been safe, it's been sealed, and nobody as of the hearing last week had looked at it. not the defense. not the prosecution. not even the judge. there has been a question of it being doctor-patient privilege. we're on the way of learning more about the notebook when last week the prosecution changed course and said we don't want this right now. we'll get it anyway if an insanity defense comes up, so they stopped at that point. fascinating, though, if you hear th this came from holmes' defense team that they notified authorities that this thing would be being sent. >> is there anything in this discovery, in these documents today, in this preliminary hearing that suggested he had been banned from campus, that they were afraid, had he been threatening? what else did we get in terms of
his behavior prior to these alleged killings, murders? >> there's been a lot of confusion about whether he was banned from campus. >> the defense filed a motion. they said, look, the prosecution is out of line here. he was not banned. what happened was he withdrew from the university and in the normal course of affairs, his key cards were taken away, and he was no longer allowed access to the building because he was no longer a student. now, we got that before this gag order went into effect. we got that on the record from the university. the judge agreed with the defense he is going to allow the defense to make a public statement despite the gag order correcting the prosecution on that. at best we can tell from these documents and what we got on the record before the gag order, he wasn't banned because of any threats that were made, but rather, his key cards and his access were revoked because he himself chose to withdraw from the university.
>> okay. thanks, jim. good work. i know that you are sort of pouring owe over the stuff coming out of that hearing. it's just wrapped up. is he facing 152 charges for addingly killing those 12 people and wounding those 58 other people. this happened back in july. there has been no official plea entered in this case and we still do not know if the man you are looking at is legally competent to stand trial, but paul cowen is with us after the break to search not only that issue, but why we can't get our hands on more of these documents where we normally can in other proceedings. okay, team! after age 40, we can start losing muscle -- 8% every 10 years. wow. wow. but you can help fight muscle loss with exercise and ensure muscle health. i've got revigor.
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so we're following the breaking news on james holmes in colorado. there's a hearing that's just wrapped up and some material has come into our possession. i want to just read from you an assessment from the denver post about some of the documents today suggesting that the police who originally got that package,
package that he allegedly sent to his psychiatrist at the university of colorado. inside that package was a notebook. some people say it was a journal, and it's been a hot debated topic in this courtroom. this is how the denver post says the police handled it. they first looked at it. they put it to an x-ray machine. they got a bomb squad technician wearing a special suit to remove the notebook from the package. at least one police officer saw some of the notebook's contents and then allegedly another police detective "fanned the notebook." paul is joining me now live once again to assess the critical aspects of that. chain of custody can mean everything for evidence. it can destroy evidence. it can have it suppressed. so much can happen when police do things they maybe shouldn't do. i don't know that this is something they shouldn't have done. does it stand out to you? >> i think they'll be okay ms case. chain of custody is really important when, say, there's a fingerprint and it goes through a lot of different people and you can't really prove how the print got there, but here we're talking about notations maybe
that are made in notebooks and i don't think there's going to be a real claim here that the cops because of the chain of custody altered the evidence, so, you know, chain of custody problems doesn't eliminate the possibility of introduction of a piece of evidence. i think they'll probably be okay in this, but it depends. they may have violated, though, attorney -- patient privilege. that's what i would be more worried about as a prosecutor, and that could be a problem if the cops were reading stuff that they shouldn't be reading because it was medically protected. >> now, i was going to talk to you about competency in this case. we've haven't gone to a competency hearing yet, but about 5 minutes ago we were talk about terry williams who is death penalty was stayed. he will not be executed on the 3rd next week. that judge said no. did you find anything about whether this secondary penalty phase which another jury is going to hear now is going to hear ep death penalty or not? could he be executed still? >> i didn't get to receipted the judge'