tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN August 8, 2013 4:00am-5:00am EDT
good evening, everyone. breaking news. a search for a 16-year-old girl who could be in the hands of a murder. three young women held here tortured year after year after year. how a neighborhood in cleveland comes to grips with it all. the couple chose prayer over medicine for one sick child, then another. they ended up burying both. why did it take two dead children. we begin with the breaking news. it could be a big development for the search statewide now
nationwide. james dimaggio. a woman is dead. her brother might be as well. his car may have been spotted. he's believed to have been driving a blue versa. he's wanted in the murder of christine anderson. authorities suspect he has her daughter with him, 16-year-old hannah and possibly 8-year-old ethan. charred remains found at the house are consistent to those of a young boy. hannah and ethan's dad made an emotional plea. >> that was a friend of ours for a long time. he's taken everything. hannah will come back and ethan
and tina, i love you both. we all love you. i know everybody is here for support of all three of them. i want to thank you all. god bless. >> you might imagine, the story is unfolding fast. the spotting of this vehicle, what do we know about this, paul? >> well, anderson, oregon state authorities believe the car was spotted near california, in the extreme northeast corner of the state and the vehicle was going northbound. a second reported sighting of that vehicle in question in lakeview, oregon. an amber alert has been issued in the state of oregon for the vehicle they have been searching for for the past three days. >> do we know exactly what time the vehicle was spotted? >> yes, we do. we understand in lakeview, oregon, it was 2:00 this
afternoon and previous to that was the spotting in california with the direction of the vehicle northbound. that would be consistent with the direction you would follow to get into oregon. it could have gone to nevada as well. >> i want to keep the pictures up on the screen in case anybody has seen either of these kids or the man believed to be holding at least one of them now. are authorities concerned he is trying to leave the country? >> they are very concerned on a mere yad of levels. he is still dangerous. they found weapons at his house. they will not confirm he is armed right now. he's a fugitive that has been awol. he has a misdemeanor or fleeing a police officer in texas in 1995. yes, they are extremely worried about him. he is a colossal flight risk,
even if he was arrested. they issued a warrant today for the murder of his mother. attached to that, a $1 million bond should he be taken into custody. they just leveled one charge, likely to follow, a second homicide charge, kidnapping charges, arson and cruelty to animal charge because also burned in the fire was a dog. they consider him to be very dangerous. >> the remains found in the house were consistent with an 8-year-old child. do we know much about the relationship between this man and the family? i understand he was kind of lifelong friends of or at least acquaintances of the family. >> it is friends, anderson. very strong relationship. possibly best friends.
mr. dimaggio and the father knew each other more than 20 years. he knew the children since their births. in fact, the relationship was so close, they called him uncle. an extremely close relationship. what is alleged here right now is absolutely the ultimate betrayal. >> thank you again, the breaking news. a vehicle spotted. an amber alert issued. let's dig deeper into who would motivate someone to do this. we are joined by mary ellen o'toole and marc klaas who lost his daughter 20 years ago. when you saw hannah's dad deliver the message, urging her to make a run for it, if she got the chance, what went through your mind? it's an important message to get to her and the man holding her. >> i think he did a tremendous
job. he appeal eed directly to the kidnapper and then gave her an action plan. ift's important she and other people listen to this. she doesn't have to wait around to be rescued. she has to find ways to keep herself alive until that moment comes when she can extra kate herself from the situation. it could take days or years as it took the women up in cleveland earlier this year. she has to find a way to stay alive then affect her escape when she has an opportunity. >> mary ellen, what does your gut tell you about this case? what causes someone to do something like this? >> there's a couple things here. first, looking at the case based on the available information, the crime scene behavior appears to be impulsive and high risk. that would suggest to me
something occurred recently in terms that had something to do with hannah. it may have made him feel like he wasn't going to see her again or that relationship was going to be cut off. he saw the mother as the person that came between him and hannah. the behavior, itself, on top of that is behavior that, again, doesn't indicate long term planning. it was a disorganized crime scene. now he's committed murder, arson, kidnapping and now he's probably the most wanted fugitive in the u.s. today. his thinking is going to go downhill. it's going to debilitate because he's having to come to grips with what he's done. his paranoia is increasing. now he's realizing there is no turning back. the message, really, if i were working on this case, the message would be, look, jim,
what happened is horrible but you have control of the situation because you can make a big difference in what happens to hannah. we know you care about her, in your own way. you can control what happens to her by releasing her. >> you have no doubt he's following this, via the media? >> i think he is. it may not be via television unless he has access to television. that's the only means to monitor the investigation. i believe he is monitoring any source of new that is he can. >> what's done is done, but he has control of this in terms of what happens to hannah and he can make this right? >> he can start to make it right. it has snowballed. we may be able to persuade him. i hope if he's listening we can. it did get out of control. we get that.
right now, there's one person and one person only who can start to bring it back under control. that's you, jim. by doing so, you need to pull off to a restaurant, let hannah go. pull off to the side of the road, let hannah go. you have control over how this thing ends up. >> mark, you would second that. the best scenario is to let the young girl go. >> there's no escape, anderson. if he's in the vehicle and in fact headed north on highway 5, which is what this sounds like, he's not going to be able to get away with anything. let this young girl go. let the police find you and turn yourself in. do what mary ellen said, start to make this thing right. >> you talked about the chaotic crime scene. the idea someone would burn down their house seems to be an indication of no way out, not going back. >> it does. there's multiple reasons we see
that. another reason and maybe one of the primary reasons here could be to destroy evidence and by delaying identification of the victims bodies he felt that would give him time and distance. the problem with that thinking is when you start a fire, there are large flames. the fire department is going to respond more quickly than if you quietly got away. he chos not to do that. again, that would suggest to me based on that, his thinking was more impulsive and reckless. that kind of thinking is only going to deteriorate. >> we spoke to a sheriff who said the lead on the vehicle did not pan out. that's bad news there. that was the first bit of an actual lead they had had. i'm going to talk to the sheriff later on. mary ellen, you made an important point earlier.
i want to go into more depth on it. in stalking cases, we focus on the person doing the stalking and the victim, the person they are focused on. there's often danger for a third party. for not necessarily the intended victim, but somebody who is perceived as being in the way. >> there is. that's often overlooked as a dynamic. if the stalker believes that person in the middle is going to come between him and the object of his affections, no matter how warped they are, that person in the middle could be in danger. >> we have seen the death of this young girl's mother. again, we don't know, we don't want to speculate, we don't know what led to this and why he has taken this young girl. there's a lot left to know. when you see a case like this,
what is the message that parents out there should take away from this? >> this is not about strangers. so many times in my career as a child advocate, i have run into cases where the evil uncle billy or uncle jim in the background is the one that goes after the child and creates the chaos and mayhem and oftentimes the murder. therefore we shouldn't talk to our kids about strangers, talk to them about making correct decisions. if something feels bad, put distance between themselves. this was indicated in this case. go tell a trusted adult what's going on so they can intervene and make things right. >> mark, i appreciate you being on. mary ellen o tool. breaking news a vehicle was spotted. the vehicle believed to match the description of this suspect.
the lead has not panned out. that is a setback for this case. authorities are wanting the public's help on this, appealing to anybody out there who has seen mr. dimaggio or hannah to call 911, call operators. that is the suspect, jim dimaggio right there, believed to be -- to have with him, this girl, anna and possibly a young boy, an 8-year-old, her brother. again, remains were also found in the house earlier and dna is being tested on that, on those remains. twitter us. coming up next, an al qaeda conference call or group chat that sparked the global terror alert. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] susan writes children's books. when she's happy, she writes about bunnies.
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more on the search for 16-year-old hanna anderson and possibly her brother ethan and alleged killer jim dimaggio who may have one or both kids with him. a car was spotted that might be the suspect and moments later the report was dialled back. paul is monitoring developments and joins us now. paul, authorities saying that vehicle is not the suspect's vehicle, correct? >> reporter: yeah, they have dialled back, as you said.
they said this lead, frankly, did not pan out and hedge saying possibly a sighting in northern california and oregon but again, saying right now anderson, that that lead did not pan out. as you can imagine everyone here on pins and needles. there is a sense of urgency. this is a desperate search and they do believe jim dimaggio is very dangerous. >> i talked to the office that is spear heading the investigation. sheriff, what's the latest? do you know where james dimaggio is right now? >> no. we don't have a lot of clues in the case, anderson. and we appreciate your efforts in getting the word out. we need all the eyes and ears to get this story out to get her home.
>> he might be in texas and there was a report in canada, but right now, no information pointing to that, correct? >> no, we have no real good leads that take them any particular place. we're trying to get the help from anybody anywhere that might see this car or any individuals involved. >> i know the remains that were found in the house were consistent with those of an 8-year-old. have the results of the dna testing come back? >> no, no, we expect those to come back hopefully in the next day or two. they are a small child. he hope ethan is there with hanna and will be returned but we don't know at this time. >> do you know anything about james dimaggio's connection to the family? >> we talked to brett anderson, the father of the girl and ex-husband of christina and this is a life-long friend of theirs. they know him very well.
if you saw brett's appeal last night he said jim, you've taken away so much already. just please, bring my daughter back to me. so that's -- that's our plea, also. let's not make this any worse than it already is and we're asking everybody out there to keep their eyes open and maybe bring this little girl back to her father. >> i mean, i read that a family friend said that dimaggio had feelings or crush on the 16-year-old daughter, hanna. do you have information about that? >> we're talking to all her classmates and we're developing certain stories. we just don't know. there is just a lot of speculation right now. we don't want to go too far out on a limb one direction or the other. we know they were life-long friends, and we're not exactly sure what that relationship was. we don't know if hanna is with him willingly or not. we just don't know right now. you know, that's why we use the national emergency alert system
to try to get all the people looking for this couple, whether they are in this state or in another state. >> i want to put james dimaggio's picture back up on the screen again. if anybody sees this man, what should they do? >> well, don't try to stop him. obviously, we suspect him in at least one murder, two murders already. so if they see him, please, you know, try to be observant, get all the information you can and call 911 and police will be there hopefully as soon as they can to take the appropriate
action. citizens should not try to interfere with this person at all. he's already proven he's pretty dangerous fella. >> thank you for your time. >> thank, anderson. appreciate your help on this matter. was it a conference call that triggered the closures of the consulates? today michelle knight returned to the house she was captured in. ahead lawyers say fort hood gunman nidal hasan is trying to get the death penalty. why the proceedings abruptly came to a halt today. 4a nw(fe
like minded extremists still threaten our homeland, still threaten our diplomatic facilities, still threaten our businesses abroad and we have to take these threats seriously. >> signs of that threat triggered a global terror alert, as you know, and the bases forward. what got everyone so worked up? reporters elih lake and josh roguen believe they know. their daily beast article is al qaeda conference call intercepted by u.s. officials sparked alerts. one u.s. intelligence official saying like this was a meeting of the legion of doom. josh rogan joins us as fran. fran serves in the dhs. josh, go to have you on the program. i know you can only say so much because you want to protect sources and concerned about balancing your reporting with national security. this being said, cnn spoke to a number of sources today and terrorism experts who say that 20 plus leaders of al qaeda
communicating with each other at the same time would be a big departure of how they operate. how do you respond? >> sure, let's remember that this intercept of communication between al qaeda's leadership and pakistan and leadership in yemen was first reported. we flushed out the details and learned this included representatives and leaders of al qaeda groups. what some officials said on background to reporters today they took issue with the use of the term conference call. it's important to note we with held many details about exactly how al qaeda pulled off this communication at the request of sources, but what i'm willing to share with you and your viewers, it was not a phone call. in fact, al qaeda went to extensive means to set up what you might say a virtual meeting space. i would rather not go into more detail than that and took extensive measures to provide an
environment for this meeting they felt was secure. of course, the u.s. intelligence committee cracked that security and i guess that's a credit to them. >> any idea why they would take such a chance on communicating together at the same time? you can look at this a true sign of desperation of al qaeda central is reaching out to affiliates saying do something. >> they use various methods to communicate with their affiliates. they use coursers and use thumb drives. they have all sorts of things. this has happened for years. this is something they believed was secure. in this case they turned out to be wrong, and it wasn't. this was sort of a meeting of all of the representative sort of cover broad issues. they did take a risk and it backfired but that's not to say
it's not unusual because that's exactly what they and the u.s. intelligence committee are doing every day, playing a game of cat and mouse where they set up the interactions and the u.s. intelligence committee tries to intercept it. >> go ahead. >> i would quickly say that, you know, that it doesn't necessarily indicate that al qaeda is desperate but more cohesive on working on a top down leadership structure and more organized fashion than we previously realized. >> again, when you use the term conference call, you're not literally meaning a conference call? >> no, again, we are not saying whether it was a phone call or video or internet or voice or data or whatever. the bottom line is this is considered sort of a virtual meeting space. it was not a phone call and this was an environment the leadership set up that people could plug into and they again went to extensive lengths to try to make sure that it was secure. in this case they seemed to have failed.
>> fran, what is your take in this. >> it's so counter intuitive, the operational security of al qaeda. there is lots of ways of communicating and we know there were a number of things that triggered the alert. there was a videotaped calling for the release of the muslim brothers from prison. we new of the prison breaks. he appointed the head of al qaeda, the yemen group as number two. there is a series of things. so whether or not why you would have needed in audition to all that to pull them all together, they understand very well the u.s. government and our allies ability to target their location using their communications and so to give the u.s. intelligence committee the opportunity to target people across the world, not just between pakistan and yemen, but around the world and locate them would have been a very dangerous thing, and it's not clear to me why that would have been necessary for them to take that risk.
>> josh, there have been some, you know, reporters, frankly, i've seen raise the question is it possible some of your sources were using you to justify the nsa, coverage of the nsa program or to kind of obscure human intelligence, assets, and saying it was signals intelligence? >> sure, first to fran's point it's totally true this is one of many and one piece of information in a broad collection that the u.s. intelligence community has engaged in. this meeting was significant according to officials and reports in both "the new york times" and lots of other outlets because it was where the vague discussion of impending attack was discussed and if you look at the embassy closings around the world it matches the people on the call. so you can sort of understand why the u.s. government took such a broad approach. as for it being motivations in taking the risk, i can't speak to that.
some of them they take risks on. this seems to be a risk they didn't take. as far as some of the other reporters linking this to the nsa and snowden and what have you, it's important to point out the programs disclosed by snowden are not related to this particular communication particularly intercepted. they are about collecting information, domestically and it's not really connected. so i think some people may be work inflating those issues where there isn't a strong connection. >> how long do you see the embassies being closed for? there have been a number of drone strikes in yemen, again, we don't know who was hit, how significant they were. >> look, i think what they are trying to do is to shatter the operational organization. you're seeing these drone strikes. i think the one person that is key to all of this is the bomb maker in yemen. >> who has not been found as far as we know. >> as far as we know. so i think he's one of the keys to the feeling they deflated
this threat but they will look to take enough operational capability it knocks the legs out before they are comfortable reopening embassies and makes sense to me. there is a number of other things besides drone strikes that will go on, the cia and u.s. intelligence working with foreign allies around the world doing searches and trying to arrest people and it will take place until they feel like they deflated the threat. >> thanks very much for being on the program. appreciate it. the latest on other stories, isha is here with the 360 bull ton. >> the house in cleveland where ariel castro held three women captive was torn down today. michelle knight released balloons before the demolition. she wanted to remind people of other abducted children. the court marshall of admitted fort hood gunman of nidal hasan is on hold until tomorrow because the backup legal team wants out.
he is representing himself but has defense attorneys to help him. those lawyers say he wants to be sentenced to death and they can't ethically stand by to help. president obama is going to russia to talk to vladimir putin. the white house says there hasn't been enough progress in by lateral relations to hold the summit. the two young boys in canada who were apparently killed by a 100-pound python died of affixation. the boys ages 4 and 6 were found dead monday morning. so very, very sad. >> indeed. thanks very much, isha. appreciate it. they choose prayer over medical care for their children not once but twice, both times with deadly results and now facing murder charges. why did they get off so easy the first time? we're keeping them honest ahead. [ man ] look how beautiful it is. ♪ honey, we need to talk. we do? i took the trash out. i know.
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a philadelphia judge today refused to dismiss murder charges against a christian couple whose infant son died from pneumonia. when the baby got sick in april, the couple didn't call a doctor or seek any kind of medical treatment. they prayed. this case would be tragic if the facts ended there but they don't. this isn't the first time the they have been charged in the death of a child. they relied on prayer before. >> reporter: at this north philadelphia cemetery, most of the graves are marked but not this spot where two small children are buried, two children who would be alive today say authorities if their parents gave them medical care. they are charged with murder following the death of their 8 month old son brandon this spring. >> instead of caring and knew touring him, they ultimately caused his death by praying over
his body instead of taking him to the doctor. >> reporter: unbelievely, that isn't the first time this happened to the couple. in 2009 their son died. the parents did not seek medical care to treat him. >> i tried the previous case two and a half years ago, and the circumstances to that case and this case are similar. >> reporter: in the first case they were found guilty of involuntary manslaughter. the prosecutor asked for prison time but the judge opted for probation and allowed the couple to move back to the home with their seven other children. the judge did order them to seek medical care for their children in the future. joe an prosecuted the case then and this case, as well. when the judge gave probation you must have been upset. >> i was upset at that and because i felt they didn't get it and weren't going to get it and here we are standing here again two and a half years later and another child dead and they still don't get it. >> reporter: which is why they
are charged with a serious count of third degree murder this time around for the death of their baby brandon. what is with these parents? authorities point to philadelphia's first century gospel church where they belong. a church that declares trust in god alone for physical healing. this church lists many core philosophies on it's website. relevant to this case is one particular belief that i will quote in part. if we are trusting in pill prescription or medication, satan is able to hinder or victory from god. why is this faith healing preached? we wanted to talk to the church's pastors. my name is gary tuckman of cnn. the daughter of the chief pastor said he didn't want to speak with us. how are you? >> hi. >> reporter: good is the pastor home? herbert shibel is in jail and kathryn released to live with her parents. the children are in state custody. do you feel you did right by
god? >> no comment. >> reporter: this is herbert attorney. >> he's sad in a grieving mode. i looked at him this morning. he seems to have lost weight, but in terms of holding up, he's a standup guy. >> reporter: certainly, that's the most controversial characterization. we wanted to show you pictures of the two little boys, but the lawyers don't know of any pictures of them their entire life. all they have are autopsy photos taken shortly before they were buried in their unmarked graves. >> they say you don't have love for your child because you let two die without medical help. >> no comment. >> gary tuchman joins us live from philadelphia. gary, this is so upsetting. how did it play out in court today? >> reporter: anderson, a in pennsylvania you have to have evidence of malice to charge third degree murder so the two different attorneys for the
husband and judge said there is no malice, there should be no third degree murder charge. the judge rejected that. he said this isn't a close case. he pointed out the first case of their son dying when they thumbed their nose at the law and he says the third degree murder charges will stand and the husband and wife face 20 to 40 years in prison fan found guilty of that. >> were they in court together? >> reporter: they were. he's in jail and she's out on bond. he walked in and looked around, saw her, smiled at her and she looked straight ahead. her father sitting next to her and he smiled at his son-in-law a very strange and horrible situation. >> they have other children, all the other children are in foster care? >> reporter: switch other children are in the foster care system right now and that reassures a lot of people those children are no longer with those parents. >> all right. gary, appreciate the reporting. joining me kathryn head of
ethics and also, aravia martin. hard not to get furious when you hear this case. people are entitled to religious beliefs. parents do not get a religious exemption. >> the classic phrase, you can make a martyr of yourself, but not your children for religious beliefs. they do not get a pass. there are a couple exceptions. one interesting one is parents say i'm not going to vaccinate my child. the difference here is you can't say no to therapy. if there is a proven established therapy insulin for diabetes, antibiotics for what this poor child had, the state steps in and says you must treat, no exceptions. >> so just antibiotics would have saved this child's life? >> would have saved the child's life. what the -- when you get a case like this when you're in the hospital, you want to appeal a
refusal of approved care. you go to the judge. what they will look at is do you have a history of proven treatment. can you say it's very, very likely to work. if you can hit the standard and the antibiotics would work here, you'll get a court order to over ride and i'm sure the judge was horrified they agreed to use medicine and didn't do it. >> it's hard to believe this could have happened twice. the prosecutor in the first case, in fact, she said she knew this would happen again. did the system fail here? >> yeah. >> absolutely, and soren. >> it did -- you know -- >> sorry, ariva, go ahead. >> i'm sorry, we had these kids placed at home with parents who had proven they were not going to give their children medical care. we have weird exception laws in states particularly pennsylvania saying faith healing is an exception to giving your children care but not when there is bodily harm or a potential for death like in this case.
i think the child protective services, the court system, everyone failed these children and it's just a shame we are looking at the death of a second child when the courts had an opportunity to remove these children in the first instance and avoid the death of the second child. >> ariva from a legal standpoint if they are known as loving and caring parents without malice, wouldn't it be hard to prove the third degree murder charges, that they intentionally killed their children? >> i take exception to this characterization of caring and loving parents. they went through this a first time. they were on probation for ten years. they agreed. they stood in court with the death of first child and said if any of our children get sick we will seek medical care. they completely ignored the orders of the court from the first case saying you cannot ignore medical treatment your kids need. i don't think there will be an issue whether they intended to kill their child. they knew -- there will be testimony from the assistant
pastor where he told them to call the probation officer and apparently, the dad said if i do, then they will intervene. you know, somehow i'm going against my faith and god. so i don't think there is going to be any reservation in anybody's mind they knew what they were doing and taking a calculated risk and this child could die from not seeking medical care. >> art, i heard you say you see cases like this all the time. is that really true? >> you do see them. i don't want to suggest they are common, but they do come up. sometimes people say i don't want to treat on religious grounds, sometimes they want alternative medicine. again, and again, prosecutors are unwilling to be tough on the first death and that's what leads to the problems because child social services, anderson, in a city like philly, they are overwhelmed and can barely keep up with the harm people are doing directly to kids, much less monitor a family like this. we see them. you got to be tough with them
and be insistent this is child abuse and neglect and you can do what you want as an adult with religious believes. you can't sacrifice your child in this way. >> can i just say one thing -- >> go ahead. >> one point, anderson, about the first amendment and constitution often comes up in the arguments and there is this tension between the parents' right to raise the child ver -- versus the straights right. what about the rights of the children? children have rights, too, and the right to be safe and to be protected from this kind of harm. >> ariava martin good to have you on. art as well. thanks. new developments after confli conflicting reports in the search for hannah anderson and the alleged killer, james dimaggio. details ahead.
new information about a new amber alert in the ser sh for a 16-year-old girl and a man accused of murder. we'll be right back. [ male announcer] surprise -- you're having triplets. [ babies crying ] surprise -- your house was built on an ancient burial ground. [ ghosts moaning ] surprise -- your car needs a new transmission. [ coyote howls ] how about no more surprises? now you can get all the online trading tools you need
a quick update for you, new information in the search for 16-year-old hanna anderson, possibly her brother ethan and james dimaggio. he may have one or both children with him. a possible sighting of his car in california. action being taken further north in oregon. paul, a lot of conflicting reports. what are you learning now? >> well, in a story that's already had absolutely so many bizarre twists, now we have what seems to be dualing agencies here. there have been two separate agencies checking out and again, hedge what they believe to be or possible sightings of the car that dimaggo is driving. in modot county in california no less than the undersheriff said that a business owner wrote down a license plate number of a versa that exactly matched the
license plate number of dimaggio's car and that sheriff went on to tell cnn that this is from a very credible source. again, a business owner and their surveillance video in the area. so now they have gone into neighboring oregon and looking at these leads suggesting that dimaggio was traveling north in the car, anderson. >> okay. so earlier san diego sheriff said those leads weren't panning out but what you're hearing from an under sheriff in a different county is they are taking the leads seriously and searching for the vehicle? >> exactly. and all the while, we're now not hearing anything from the san diego county sheriff. we're trying to run it down. we've pressed hard to talk to them but in california and oregon state officials both saying that they are taking this lead seriously, and thoroughly checking it out. >> this is a nissan versa they are looking for. appreciate the update. thanks very much.
isha is back. anderson, the 360 follow the rail way company whose run away train killed more than 40 people in quebec last month filed for bankruptcy in the u.s. and canada. the unmanned 73 car train exploded slamming into commercial center. new relief out in central missouri where flooding prompted a state of emergency. more than 100 homes flooded overnight and more rain soaked the region. yahoo says it will unveil a corporate logo next month, the first redesign in two decades. until then, for each of the next 30 days it will display a different version of the updated logo on the home page. a plywood box is shoved out of a plane at 14,000 feet with escape artist tony martin chained inside. it took him 30 seconds to break free. he made a perfect landing. he did the same stunt for the first time 25 years ago.
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