tv Piers Morgan Live CNN October 7, 2013 9:00pm-10:00pm EDT
we're seven days into the shutdown, if you think this is bad for america, wait until you see what happens when they run down the clock in the next few weeks, and it could be a catastrophe. and more on john mccain, what his party has left, robert reisch on the left, and newt gingrich on the right. and why there is an attempted right wing coup against the president. we'll answer your questions tonight, and with washington in a straight jacket, who better than to show us how to get through an impossible situation, the world's greatest magician.
and again, from john mccain, he said from the beginning of this, the americans will blame the gop for the shutdown and things are no better with the debt deadline looming next week. senator mccain, it has been more than a week with the shutdown, and many are asking when is washington going to get its act together? do you know the answer? >> i don't know, piers, but we may reach the point where the markets tell us to come to an agreement, and that would be, of course, when we start to default on our debts. i hope that is not the case. because i think the markets will react. and obviously, that will be bad for almost all americans who have stocks in the stock market. but right now, it is one of the problems -- it is no longer republican versus democrat sit down and negotiate. there is a third element here, as you know, and that is a significant number in the house
of representatives who believe that we should have no negotiations until there is an agreement to de-fund obama care which is not going to happen until we have 67 republican senate votes that would override a presidential veto. >> right, so we all know that can't happen. obama care is not going to be de-funded. it is off and running, there are a few glitches, but the takeoff seems to be pretty good. apart from that, what are the republicans going to do as a party, apart from the fact they're now split down the middle. you have guys like yourself who have been around the block a few decades. and i say that in the most complimentary kind of possible way, who have been involved in this kind of thing and know how to resolve it. how do you bring the two together to get some kind of common sense? >> to be honest, i don't know, because i say with respect to
those individuals who say de-fund or nothing else. although they changed their message somewhat. it used to be just absolute de-funding, now, apparently it is all right if you just address certain portions of obama care. but look, there was a lot of republican members of congress who campaigned in 2010 who said you send me there, i will do everything in my power to de-fund obama care, carrying out their commitment to their constituents that they campaigned on. i understand that. but i just said, being around for a while, the thing that is kind of aggravating to some of us that in 2009 i never worked harder against obama care, whether that is right or wrong, i'll let anybody judge. but i still believed we fought as hard as we could up until christmas morning was the last vote we took on obama care. and then of course, i campaigned across this country all through 2012, said elect mitt romney and the majority in the house and
senate, and we'll de-fund, replace and repeal obama care. and now, some of us are being accused of not being committed enough or being zealous enough, or being squishes. frankly i kind of resent that. >> i want you to imagine that you're two people for a minute. one, the president of the united states, and two, the speaker. if you were speaker boehner, what would you do to try to get through this? >> i think it is very difficult to say. because i'm a great admirer of the speaker, and it is very tough begin the divisions within his confines. i don't say under any circumstances that we debate the debt. as i think i saw him say on the sunday talk show. as far as the president is concerned i really think the president is not helping himself by not doing serious negotiations, particularly about the debt. the president should be doing
what bill clinton did in 1995 and calling these people over to the white house, sitting down, having a conversation, and maybe they can't find a way. but it is not good optics for the president to just basically go around and have a pep rally some place and beat up on republicans. that is not the solution. >> but if you're the president, looking at the latest polls, the abc poll had the vast majority of americans blaming the republicans now. and that number getting higher, not decreasing. if you're the president and the white house, you're thinking well, this is killing the republicans, i can just sit back and enjoy this for a little bit longer. at what point does that political stand, which is perfectly understandable, come against the national interest, particularly with the debt ceiling coming up? >> well, if i were the president i would look at my own polls, the president's polls are not as bad as the republicans, but
they're going down across the board. and by the way, another irony as many predicted, the obama care is having a tough time. you know, the breakdowns, the waits, the glitches, all the stuff going on. and that is on page seven, whereas it should be on page one. because many of us predicted that this mammoth under-taking of re-vamping 1/5 of america's economy would be a lot harder than they portrayed it to be. and on one hand, the decline, but on the other, the attention from the program that is flailing very badly. >> senator mccain, thank you very much, and i'll talk to another man who led the u.s. in the efforts, newt gingrich, your
name gets thrown out all the time by people. you said look, the last shutdown they got it sorted because in the end, and you told me this, bill clinton told me this, you got in the room and just did the deal. what is going on here? i've had a tweet already from something saying just a bunch of egomaniacs, that is all they are. democrat, republican, get rid of them all. that is what americans are starting to think. >> sure, you can hardly blame them. the fact is, when the president who is presumably the leader of the american government, and now the opening line is "i will not negotiate." now, bill clinton never said anything like that. he would say i'm really mad at you and don't think you should do this, but let's talk about it. >> he should negotiate, because at the moment, the ted cruz
element the -- element of the republicans say we will only negotiate if it is cutting the obama care -- >> well, that is the beginning of conversation. he is saying i will never negotiate, they're saying give us everything. that is how you start. but then he stops. we've now been through several weeks where the closest he can come to negotiate is an attack speech. now, this is going to get much more worse and more dangerous as the debt ceiling comes roaring down. >> well, let me bring you robert reish in, because this is your c c calamity specialty, let me ask you this, if america were to default, it would be a catastrophe, wouldn't it? not just for the american economy, that is why the eyes of the world are on it. but the global economy?
>> it certainly would, piers, because the global economy, not just the american economy, depends on the full faith and credit of the united states government. on the treasury bill, the dollar, all would be brought into question if the debt ceiling is not lifted. and remember, this is not a debt ceiling that is lifted to pay more debts. this is to pay off and to pay the bills we already have that congress and the president have already incurred. so it would be the height of irresponsibility not to lift that debt ceiling. >> right, i heard warren buffet say in the end there will be extreme stupidity. but he said there is a really why you can't go with the debt ceiling or use it for political gain, let's watch what he said. >> it makes absolutely no sense to let it be used as a lever for other things. i mean, if you want to change the laws on abortion, immigration, you name it, tax laws, whatever, let that be a piece of
hammer out. but to tie it to something, well you break the promises of the united states government to people all over the world as well as to the u.s. citizens just makes no sense. it should be banned like nuclear weapons, basically like something that is too horrible to use. >> now, that was a man who made ten million dollars from the last recession, perfectly , and legitimately. even he is saying, look, we can't go there. >> the amount of historical ignorance masquerading is astonishing. we have been negotiating over the debt ceiling since the first year of dwight eisenhower's presidency, when a bipartisan group of democrats and republicans said look, we're not going to raise the debt ceiling until you agree to some spending cuts. it took them a year. we have been doing this for 60 years, and suddenly obama jumps
up and says it is unpress dencu, i wouldn't do it. one guy doesn't get to decide. >> speaker boehner is no speaker newt gingrich, is he? >> well, and barack obama is no bill clinton. >> piers, if i may say something, i was there in 1995 and 6, with the previous shutdown. the issue was entirely different, as speaker newt gingrich, my great friend newt knows very, very well. the issue was the two sides couldn't reach an agreement on a budget resolution. and the president and newt gingrich, particularly were at loggerheads, the public blamed the republicans. but the most important issue there was about what the budget was going to be. it was not about a piece of legislation already on the books. once you open the door to the kind of extortion that the republicans are now wanting to
use, that is, we have got a piece of legislation already passed both houses of congress and approved by the president. it has been sustained by the supreme court as constitutional, once you open the door to the republicans using a shutdown and a threat to basically default on the nation's debt as a means of getting their way to change that legislation, or to delay that legislation, or to repeal that legislation then no piece of legislation is safe. >> let me bring -- >> our legislative system -- >> he is a terrific person, a great scholar, but this is nonsense. in the 1970s, under tom o'neill, with a democratic speaker, and the democrats controlling the house and the senate, they had an issue regarding abortion, with an issue that is clearly a public policy issue. the constitution was written to separate powers, the power of purse is in the whole house. the president is not a king, he
can't demand. he has to negotiate. and nothing has weakened this president more, and by the way, this afternoon, the cnn poll was shocking on how much obama will get hurt by this. he goes on tv and says i will not negotiate. well, the american people begin to believe him, he will not negotiate, they think it is not smart. >> you are absolutely wrong historically. newt, with due respect and you are my friend -- >> you are my friend but you're completely wrong. >> you are absolutely wrong about negotiating with extortionists. you cannot begin to negotiate with extortionists because they will only escalate the extortion the next time. >> robert, you are describing the american system, the american system is designed for this. >> newt, no, it is not. you do not want a democratic system in which one side, one party can basically hold up the entire government shutdown, shut down the entire government, take the full faith and credit of the
united states and gamble with it as a bargaining chip to get their way without amending or changing the rule of law that is already law. >> with respect to, i sadly have to bring this to a conclusion. >> we have to get him on cross fire. >> i'll come on cross fire with you. >> there we go. >> robert, thank you very much indeed. >> you will stay with me, you mentioned earlier, president obama was not a king. of course, if it had not been for the revolutionary war, there might have been a king. your wife has written this extraordinary book, and it may help to explain why we brits got sent packing. i was made to work.
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newt gingrich is back with me, along with calista, his wife. her book, teaching america about government. that may just be a lesson for anybody watching in washington. welcome to you, calista. >> hello. >> how are you? i can see how americans will love this book, it is basically how you hammered the british. >> well, you may see it that way. but we see it as how americans gained their freedom in the revolutionary. and yankee doodle dandy is
talking about the great freedom of america. >> it came to me, a little interview that i had done with your husband in which he said this. if you could be any animal, which one would you be? >> if i could be any animal? probably an elephant. >> yes why? >> because they have 105 muscles in their trunk -- >> you would want to have 105 muscles in your trunk. >> and they're big, they last a long time, smart, social animals. so very few things can attack them. >> a pure coincidence. there is the elephant on the front. >> there you go. >> so this is based on you, right? >> well, no, actually, i knew i needed an interesting character to capture the attention of children. and i really did consider many animals, including monkeys and hippos and giraffes, but in the end i couldn't resist this adorable elephant, and i have
been blessed with a great editor who brought the elephant to light. >> i am sure it is great, and kids love it. when i got to this line, finally, the british had to admit, the yankees beat us, it is over, they quit. have you found that british person that said this? >> that was our decisive moment. >> i'm jesting it is a great story, terrific fun we have a question from janelle simmons with a question for you. >> so your husband is the host of cross fire, where he constantly argues, what is your constant argument at home? >> that is an excellent question. we actually don't talk about politics at home. but i think probably things like watering the boxwoods would cause a little tension. >> really? i can imagine he would be quite domine
domineering. >> what do you think is going on down in washington? you're married to one of the great washington figures. what do you think? the public is getting sick and tired of it? >> oh, i think so the public is sick of arguing and of partisan politics. but i do think the leaders have to negotiate and get something done, the founding fathers did that in philadelphia. for 55 days, they closed the door and didn't finish until they figured out what to do. the leaders could take a lesson from that. >> is that what goes on, when you two have a dispute, 55 days? >> dispute? >> call -- >> just like the boxwood case, they need watering dear. the correct answer is yes. i don't know what part two of that conversation was? that was a great question on your part. >> it was a great question. lovely to see you, calista, a terrific little book, spi despie
narrative, again, edited by susan ociero, and a great little book, go to gingrichproductions.com. >> all i can tell you is we would like to rewrite that one section, but they wouldn't let us. and -- we had got the genius that did that, frank rich joins me next. also ahead, the world's greatest magician, chris angel, can he work his magic on the shutdown? [ cheers and applause ] >> georges come on in. yeah, keep it about -- bring it up a little bit more, that is fine. there you go, good.
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daredevil feeat, i can't say where it is, but it could involved straight jackets, the moment i heard it, i said this is the guy. if you can get out of a straightjacket, we can get out of this. >> i deal with the such of impossibility, and we should have a solution, so i don't understand how grown-ups running our country can't find a solution. i don't know why there is no compromise, why we're in the situation to begin with. it is a sad state for us. >> it does seem ridiculous. you're a successful entertainer. you have loads of people coming to pay you to do a job. you put on a show, you don't just give up. shut things down, ju. >> well, there is a lot of bureaucracy in government. it is sad, but i just feel that our leaders are very much out
there promoting their own agenda. trying to get reelected, and they're not doing always what is right for our country and they're doing what is right for their own career, which i think is a very sad state for our government. because it is all about our country and about putting that first before putting our personal opinions out there. >> absolutely right, mr. angel, congratulate you on that. now, you're going to come back with a straight jacket a little late, right? >> i am going to put you in a straight jacket, because i know you're going insane with the shut down -- >> the only show more popular than the government shutdown, you have a new show? >> yes, premieres october 15th, we're having a new show, i am so excited, doing 11 hours. >> that is fantastic, well, listen, come back later with a straight jacket, and we'll see you get out of it. good to see you, chris angel. and in washington, looking
at the emmy winning veep, take a look. >> we're in shutdown mode, i have to have a staff -- >> keith, he is skinny like a skeleton, please, i can't afford to be furloughed? >> you are not, but you are, dan, you two do similar jobs, the deal is, it won't be long, i have a meeting with the speaker today, correct? so i'm going to shut down the shut down. >> and in june, is it life imitating art? well, frank rich is the executive producer of "veep," and also writer at large. good evening. >> good evening. >> you must think you're actually a sooth-sayer, or so long in the tooth in this game it was inevitable that life would imitate art. what happened as you lampooned it so successfully? >> well, i must say arnucci, who
is really a brilliant, creative guy behind writing "veep" has an uncanny ability to predict, you may have this ability, too, everything that is going to get screwed up in washington. but you know, i think life always imitates art. and in the case of washington, just like groundhog day, we have had a shutdown before. you had the meastro of the previous shutdown, newt gingrich on earlier and we have two parties very polarized. at each other's throats. and no real ability to get their way out of crises when they're so ideologically opposed to each other. >> and as you say we have had many shutdowns, you can blame democrats or republicans. can you remember one who has been at its heart so hard trying
to dismantle an established law? >> no, i don't think there is any parallel to this. secretary reich had something off when he said earlier there was no particular law involved in the previous conflict in the newt gingrich-/clinton standoff. because it was about medicare, the republicans wanted to cut back medicare spending. and so there is that little bit of similarity here. but this is a totally different situation. because this is not only a law that was passed, it was actually vetted by the supreme court. and so as everyone knows and keeps saying, the only way to overturn that is in the next election, as senator mccain was saying earlier tonight on your show. if they want to elect 67 republican senators they can do it. but short of that, it is
anarchy, and kind of a rather ham-fisted attempt at a coup, i think. >> what does it mean for the future of the republican party? the sense of, there is mid-terms coming up. you have the big election in 2016. it can't be helpful, can it, to their chances of doing in either of those two elections, if they seem to be absolutely ideologically at each other's throats? >> well, i think you're right. it doesn't work for them in national elections. it is unlikely to help them elect a president. but the interesting thing in this division in the republican party is there are a lot of republicans in safe districts, many of them at the heart of this movement to hold the government hostage over obama care who really don't care, because they're safe. they're going to be reelected anyway. and they have, like it or not, they have a long game end view. and they see themselves at revolutionaries. and of course, republicans do control a lot of state houses.
and so there is the local fights which are completely different from the national fight. americans tend to look at the marquis event, which is the presidential election, and there they're definitely hurting themselves and may hurt themselves in representations in congress. but they had a strong view, possibly stronger than standing against the democratic party -- leasing a new deal. >> all right, stay with me, we'll talk about whether or not president obama is playing this well or maybe not so well as time goes on. and also, what republicans contend to be abject defeat, regarding the debt ceiling battle. [ woman ] if you have the audacity to believe
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gone and i admit i'm just a village idiot from ohio. >> ho, ho, ho, saturday night live, this weekend, the supposed english accent, it was pretty convincing, but i have to say it seems nothing like me, right? right. right rich, let's go to you. i wouldn't dwell on the mockery of my accent there, but let's turn again to the state of play with the president and speaker boehner. it seems these are the two central figures. lot of historical references back to clinton and newt gingrich, and how this is so different. because boehner and obama just don't seem to get on and don't seem to spend much time together. >> no, they don't seem to get on. and the truth is, particularly in john boehner's case, he is not playing with a full deck. he does not have control of his caucus. and by the way, sometimes newt gingrich didn't either in the
previous version of this. and while i know that mr. gingrich sort of waxes sentimentally about bill clinton, the fact is, they were also at each other's throats, where newt gingrich complained about a seat on the airplane, where he thought he was dissed, sort of, by clinton. so there is a lot of re-writing of history. so i think president obama really does have his party behind him. even in senators in red states up for re-election, the democratic senators, who the republicans thought they could peel away in this escapade are remaining loyal to the president, whereas boehner is dealing with kindergarten and kindergarten cops and every version of that kind of chaos. >> we're getting a few boos from the audience, a few republicans
have crept in here, not happy with that. >> well, too bad. >> let's go to the audience's question, you have a question for frank. >> so frank, you successfully predicted the government shutdown and drone strikes, we're curious what the next big prediction is, and if you think any subjects are too touchy to parody? >> is there anything you couldn't parody? >> there is nothing you can't parody. we know it from shows like "veep." and "saturday night live." and as far as "veep" goes, in predicting things, we're shooting a new season and all i can say is, leave the country! it is hard, but i must say arnucci does have an uncanny feel for doing what we're going to do, before even know it. >> my gut feeling is that
republicans will hang on right to the end for the debt ceiling, to the end, simply because it gives them their only way out. at the moment they're being blamed for the shutdown, and if they do a grand bargain, they could emerge. however unlikely it seems now with a form of victory. >> well, i don't think they will have a victory, i think much of what you say is right. i think they will play out their string until the debt ceiling streng strengths to bring america and the world economy to its knees. but i don't think they will get a grand bargain then, if they ever get one, i think maybe if obama wants to he can throw them some kind of face-saving little bargain, not a grand one that will help them to retreat with some kind of dignity. but the grand bargain, they haven't been able to achieve one yet. that is going to take a lot of time and not in a situation where the world economy and the economy is being held hostage. >> finally, frank, do you think
they're ever going to grow up in washington? >> no, i grew up there. and i haven't grown up. i think that -- i think there is -- i think there is something built into our system, you know, if you read will rogers making almost 100 years ago -- making fun of the political parties of his time, in another era, or mark twain before that. it seems to be pretty much built into the system. and maybe there is a little bit of good in that that it is so chaotic and it is a democracy or unruly, but we're seeing the worst of it right now. >> frank rich, always good to talk to you. thank you very much indeed. >> thank you for having me. next, a swarm of bikers, a family, an suv, a sunday afternoon ride that turned very volatile. one of the bikers is still in the hospital. next, why his family says he is the real victim. ide by side to find you a great deal, even if it's not with us.
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suv driver. you've seen the video. the driver attacked and a rider injured also. edwin mieses was hit and paralyzed. joining me is his wife and lawyer gloria allred. >> why did you take this case and why do you believe that the real victim may be edwin and not as many people think the driver of the suv? >> piers, edwin is clearly a victim. here is what the media is not tying together. our investigation has revealed that even before what you just saw on the videotape, as the driver of the suv was coming down the highway several miles before that he hit another biker. and as the -- as he was moving from the right lane over to try to get into the middle lane, he
hit another person on the motorcycle -- or hit the motorcycle. he kept going several miles. then he hit another biker. and then, he of course rolled into and hit after gunning his motor, he hit edwin who is now crushed under the suv. he did that without any warning to edwin. edwin by the way was doing nothing wrong. we have spoken to many people who were there. he did nothing wrong. he got off his bike, go over and try to calm everybody down. by the way, at the point that he was run over, no one had done anything to the driver of the suv. >> let me ask you, first of all how is edwin? >> he is out of his coma. he is awake. he had another surgery, his spine. he is in a lot of pain.
doesn't talk much. just came out of icu today. >> everyone has seen this video and most people have a firm view that the guy in the suv was protecting his family, surrounded by bikers and no idea what was happening, already been cut off by one of them which led to the original bump. what is your view of where blame should lie there? >> i wasn't there. i can't blame anyone. i can understand why he was scared. but at the end of the day, my husband parked his vehicle on a kick stand to get off and try to help the situation to say let's just ignore it. >> i've got a tough question for you. gloria said edwin did nothing wrong. in a sense, he did, he has not had a valid driver's license or
permit since 1999. he was arrested for driving with a revoked license. he has been named a habitual defender. >> that is not relevant to his being run over. >> i didn't say that. >> i'm making that point. he wasn't driving at the time that he was run over by that suv. he was not driving. he was doing everything lawfully. there is no one who said -- >> he is not supposed to be on the road on the motorcycle. >> he had -- >> he was before that. >> as -- he had gotten off and trying to calm the situation. and by the way, mr. lynn, what could he have done if he was in fear? nothing had happened to him yet. he could have honked his horn. >> i know what i would have done. i would have been terrified. i have a 22-month-old baby
daughter if hi iwas in that suv with my wife and daughter, i will be perfectly straight with you and i'm swarmed by wiekers who try to close down the road so they can perform their wheelie tricks with the greatest respect to you, you are not the target of my criticism. i feel for you on an emotional level about what has happened. but gloria, i would have been out of there like hell in a hand cart. >> he could have honked his horn. he could have said get out of the way. instead of gunning the motor and running him down. and edwin is also the father of two children. >> let me -- >> and she is -- she is a hero. she has been sleeping in the chair in the icu dave for about nine days since this happened. >> let me ask you, darling. because as i say this is not criticism at you but it's you know what people are saying about this video. you have heard it and seen it on
tv. i'm not saying anything new. if it had been you and edwin and your little ones in the suv and an incident happened and it all kicked off. what would you have done? >> i think i would have stopped and i would have tried to get the information for the insurance. >> you would have stopped with all the bikeers? >> why would i are judge all the bikers? i hit someone. obviously hit the people around him are worried about this person. they are going to get off the bike and wonder what is wrong with the person. i'm not going to profile -- >> that's the duty under the law. if you hit someone -- he hit two bikers and runs over the body of the third. >> i don't know how many of the other bikers had the same criminal record. your guy didn't have a motorcycle license. >> he wasn't on a motorcycle when he was crushed the.
>> he was moments before. >> are you saying it's okay to run down anybody who has a past history. >> let me read a statement from liam's right. our sympathies go out to the injured motorcyclist and his family and my husband was forced under the circumstances to take the actions he did to protect our family. i think you can relate to that -- i'm not saying that he is blameless by the way. i think there must be accountability for his actions. and the injuries to edwin are horrendous. but any woman in a car surrounded by that number of bikers, not know for they were violent or not -- >> how many bikers do you see in this video? 300 or 20? >> enough. >> enough to scare me. >> when they -- >> why would you be scared? >> are you scared because --
>> looking what they are doing to the wind screen. >> are you scared because you clipped someone over and trying to hurry up to escape. >> the first impact is when one of the bikers stopped. >> it's not on video. >> do we have evidence of that? >> is there evidence to that? >> we have -- done an investigation. miles before. this is not on video. but we have evidence and law enforcement is going to be aware of that evidence. if they are not already that he hit another bike miles before with someone on it, proceeded down the highway and hit another bike. >> and that's my husband under there. >> i get why you feel so much -- >> do you see them banging and hitting this vehicle? >> i see hundreds of bikes. i don't know how many there were. >> there are not hundreds. >> how many does it take? >>ed a the end of the day we're from boston. he doesn't know none of those
people. his problem was trying to stop and help. >> is it an awful incident. the truth will come out. >> it sure will. >> you have great hands on your side here. i'm just trying to get to the facts here. >> if you hit two bikers and run over a third you have -- >> i get your argument, gloria and i have great respect for you and you as weapon. thank you for coming in. >> when we come back, criss angel is back. he will put me in a straight jacket.
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