tv Key Capitol Hill Hearings CSPAN August 20, 2014 10:57am-1:01pm EDT
anand counsel of all of you that are here and some of whom have been very helpful in the legislation as well as in the testimony is something that we are all very grateful for and i think senator flake, senator hatch, senator coons and myself have put considerable efforts to address different aspects of the problem and i'm confident that we will all continue to work together and making the best products in the world and expanding your business is. thank you very much. the hearing will stay open for an additional week for anybody that wishes to add anything but subject to that, we are adjourned.
ferguson, missouri himself in order to call the situation there. and mark a path for. the hill newspaper reports the white house has ruled out sending the president to ferguson. the hill, the white house has not ruled out a visit in upcoming weeks according to sources familiar with the internal decision-making. for now the white house believes a trip would do more harm than good like diverting resources on the ground. one senior administration official familiar with the talks said obama didn't rule a trip in or out at this point, but added that there are no immediate plans for the president to go to the st. louis suburb. a presidential trip -- it goes on to say --
we turn to you. dyou thin >> host: we turned all of you. what you think works should president obama go to ferguson, missouri? larry, your first. republican caller. go ahead. >> caller: he should not. what have to say is blunt and quick. president obama, this is a cycle, psychological operation. what he's doing is he's going to impose martial on the entire country so that's why they have a militarized police now that governor nixon, the national guard, the situation with the
army, what they going to shoot unarmed so forth. so this is a pandora's box that's opened up. we are heading towards a race war. >> host: larry, what about in the coming weeks and perhaps after comes down and ferguson, missouri. >> caller: it's not going to calm down. you've got to face and look at reality. you've got people coming from other cities and so forth. america, the truth on telly, america is on financial life-support, $222 trillion of debt. we have a race war. he wants to do this anyway because the country, it's done. it's a done done. >> host: ron, miami, florida, democratic caller. what do you think? >> caller: yes. let's not talk politics like the first called. let's stick to the issue. and issue since the late 90s started with the new york police force and some of the other big city police forces were sent to the big brass listen to israel
to be trained. military style. i bring -- >> host: what is your evidence of that? >> caller: amy goodman, democracy now! >> host: okay, all right. pittsburgh, pennsylvania, independent caller. what do you think? >> caller: i really don't think issue. i think it would be a big rack host the all right. sorry about that. school is out. the bloomberg website from its editor has this piece this morning. go to ferguson, mr. president.
>> host: samantha in akron, ohio, independent caller. what do you think? >> caller: well, i don't think that the president should go. i think that there are enough people there. eric holder is going down. they are investigating. racism is something that we've lived with since our country's inception, and i don't see it going away anytime soon. >> host: okay. so you don't think a speech or
his presence there could help trigger a conversation? >> caller: know. i really don't. he said in a summit, other incidents that have occurred, and he stressed how we must come together and we thought his election would bring us together, but it seemed to have brought us further apart and i just think he should let the people who are in charge of law enforcement and investigations handled the situation. later on, and from his heart, at some opportunity, he might express his wishes that we could come together, that we could come to know each other better. but in going there won't make any difference. >> host: pennsylvania, republican caller, go ahead. >> caller: good morgan, fräulein. how are you? aye often about this topic and
one of things i wanted to say is the first thing i don't think he should go there. and we keep saying it's almost like an orwellian mantra that the first is strength. how do we realize yet that diversity is a source of endless strife and tension throughout the world can be a source of bloodshed. it's only going to get worse. one of the things that's interesting is we ignore on the periphery of our civilization a constant conflict between lax and mexicans going on in schools and prisons and the streets and the warfare going on between different groups that we are afraid to talk about. we always talk about it being white people only. let's also talk about the fact that while this kid was shot, but 24 black kids were shot in chicago that same week. that's where obama should go. that's also remember that 85% of interracial violence and crime
every year is black on white. it is whites who were the victims of violence, hate, a lot of egregious hate crimes against whites are never reported. >> host: where to get those statistics, those numbers? >> caller: well, jared taylor appeared on your show in 1999 with the caller of crime study that was from the national crime victims survey and fbi statistics on interracial crime or so that's from your own show host mike that was 15 years ago? >> caller: it's probably gotten worse. come on, greta. i don't know what the solution is but the one thing we have to say is let's stop this george orwell kind of stuff and stop teaching kids that diversity is a strange. lets remote it's a source of strife and they wished try to assimilate the people that are here and maybe we should black people and white people should remember we are brothers, we are
cane and able to we've been together for finder -- 400 years and we need to come together. >> host: frank, birmingham, alabama, democratic caller. your thoughts track you i would suggest when there's a crisis in the world, the president delegate some high profile people go into those troublespots who can be heard. jesse jackson, al sharpton, even eric holder, glad he's going there and there to investigate it that the president has mayor william bell that is the keeper is mentioning a press conference as well, in birmingham where the youngest president -- [inaudible] i would encourage the president to get nathaniel jackson, anthony anderson, drake, 50-cent, wilson, the most viable player of football, super bowl, these are the kinds of people these people want to hear. i was also proud in 2008, the
sender encourage people to go vote. young males were coming, they were pulling up their pants. young african-americans kind of feel somewhat shortchanged by the president. they don't have such a great appreciation for him that you would believe. i used to be in the game for 14 years, and i wouldn't care at the president would get oprah winfrey of the world, magic johnson, michael jordan. these are the kind of people that this particular group, especially the violent element, we'll hear from. that's what it's going to take, that people can connect with each other people and that's what the president needs. he doesn't need to go down and deal with this. he's getting cut off in the middle east. this is a crises that asian people will resonate to. if you get drake, put drake on
the front line. put 50-cent on the front line. >> host: got your point. on sunday georgetown university professor michael dyson talked about the need for leadership from the white house in ferguson, missouri. he made remarks when his on sundays cbs face the nation. is what he had to say. >> this president knows better than most what happens in poor communities that have been antagonized historically by the hostile relationship between black people and the police department. it is not enough for him to come on national television a pretend that there's a false moral equivalency between police people who are armed and black people who are vulnerable constantly. he needs to use his bully pulpit to step up and to articulate this as a vision, not necessarily from public policy a little because eric holder is doing a tremendous job in filling in those gaps but we need presidential leadership. he needs to step up the plate and be responsible. >> host: that was from cbs's sunday face the nation. georgetown university professor
>> host: jerry, harmony north carolina independent caller. jerry, the president, should he go to ferguson, missouri? >> caller: good morning, greta. >> host: good morning. >> caller: i'd like to get a couple comments in before he cut me off please. no, i don't think he should go to missouri. just look around the country what's going on the world over in syria, iraq, libya, egypt, israel, absolutely not. he has handled those things over the terribly and look what's happened over there. he needs to stay out of missouri. i wish that he would get back on air force one and go back to washington this morning, go to the rose garden and apologize to
the american people and the people around the world for being such a failure, and he should resign. we would accept his resignation. >> host: you are calling on the independent line. did you vote for the president? >> caller: i did the first time, and the second time i did not. >> host: don, california, democratic caller. >> caller: good morning, greta. don't cut me off please. i'd like to say that, number one, president obama is an african, and the people in america are, the african-americans are black. juice, okay. in 17 -- 70 a.d., a general who is a roman and his son titus of roman, and the roman army put an end to the jewish state. the black jewish state. and ever since then there's been a white supremacy or in america
and all over the earth because the white man rules the earth. this is what everything is so messed up because he has taken the word of god and turned it backwards host the all right, don. maryland, democratic caller. >> caller: good morning. look, i hope you don't cut me off either, but i'm a vietnam veteran. and i saw this kind of thing in vietnam. the last century, all over planet earth, the people drove northwest european supremacy lost out of their lives. i was looking at fox news yesterday and i was seeing al they were talking against this kid was killed down in missouri. but also i turned around right
after that, they started talking about the guy who was beheaded over in the middle east. and it was a totally different comparison. either way, it's murder. but the passion, like the gentleman just said before me, that roman imperial supremacy is destroying america's democracy. >> host: george, can the president do anything? >> caller: well, ma'am, the whole thing is if you see a people treat our president in this country, it is -- look, i'm a democrat, sometimes i'm a republican sometimes. and what i see, i have never disrespected any of my presidents. this thing here is the same reason people have been kicked out all over the world is racism crap from europe and north america. people are tired of it. >> host: all right, george. were asking all of you whether
or not the president should go to ferguson, missouri to help the situation. calm the tensions there. getting your take on that as some in washington and others are saying the president should make that true. we will keep getting her thoughts this one on the "washington journal" the first, some other headlines. a couple of callers have brought up the beheading of an american journalist because the front page of "usa today" with headline that a video claims the beheading of american journalist james foley who was captured by isis in november of 2012. the video's authenticity was not yet verified by federal law enforcement official not authorized to speak publicly said -- security council spokesperson who says -- we have seen the video. intelligence community is
working on the sittion in >> host: on the situation in iraq, back to the front page of "usa today" with a headline that iraqis say u.s. help is vital. do more iraq will lose the militants. that is a warning from tribal leaders in that country. that is also the front page this morning of "the wall street journal." u.s. airstrike success spurs push for more iraq attacks. and then the situation in ukraine, "new york times" this one has this headline about the role of the german chancellor is playing, she is emerging as a key figure in these ukraine talks. .
. >> host: also this is a star in the financial times this morning about russia trying to feed itself after russia sanctioned food from western countries, russia strike to feed itself unlikely to bear fruit on struggling farms. it says in your that the farmer said it would take years of hard work and huge, wide ranging investments to change that, a feat few believed would be achieved. and then on the israeli gaza conflict, is a headline in "the wall street journal," gaza
rockets shatter the truce. witnesses said was an israeli strike on gaza on tuesday the israel's response, struck in response to palestinian rockets are by the way the negotiated that were talking in cairo have left according to news reports this morning. we are getting the thoughts of what the president obama should go to ferguson missouri. michael in washington, d.c., and independent caller. michael, what do you think? >> caller: yes, ma'am. good morning. yes, and a solution and the only solution or world peace is to kill all white people and kill most black people are no justice, no peace. >> host: michael, why do you say something like that? >> caller: it's the truth. it's i in the bible. why the bible. why people own everything and in order to justice in peace is to kill all white people and to most people -- black people because some black people, we need to get rid of all white people and most black people.
>> host: that's michael, his opinion. michael in salt lake city, utah, democratic caller. michael, what do you think? >> caller: well, i don't think that obama should go there. i think that would confuse the issue greatly. my opinion on this is that it should be a function of the rule of law, and it should be extremely -- they should do everything possible like eric holder and the fbi and the people there, the government there in missouri should make sure that this is a very open and visible exercise that shows the rule of law and how it should work, and that people should understand that. they are saying the guy is guilty already. well, you can't have the rule of law if you just trample all over
everybody's rights and say, -- that's on both sides. the police can't trample over the rights of the people, and they have an issue that should be addressed. but what everybody needs to understand is that the rule of law should take precedent, and i think that will, i hope, solve the issue where everybody can agree that's what should have been. >> host: all right. kinney, new york, independent caller. good morning. >> caller: good morning. i don't think president obama should go to missouri. just because this attention, so much tension going on in missouri right now, and i don't think he's going to do anything by going there. my thing is that, you know, we as americans, we see how police officers -- let me just say, not
all police officers are bad, but they have so many officers that are racist and are on the police force. so when you've got a racist mentality, you put police in -- seneca course they're going to be scared. a lot of these guys are scared because they are working in an environment where they are not used to. and when you've got this mentality because you don't respect black people in general, these people are, what i'm saying as for these racist people on the police force, those are the people that it is really, it's giving the whole police force a bad name. i mean, i'm not saying all police officers are racist, but you got police officers that are racist and on the force. >> host: will be talking about the role of law enforcement coming up on "washington journal" in about 15 minutes or
so. the st. louis this batch this morning with headline, a day of recovery. we saw the headline there and the caption come one of the stories says missouri governor jay nixon is invited to join the chorus of folks that are calling on him to have, to have a county prosecutor, attorney robert mccullough step aside in this case, the governor not calling on mccullough to step aside. the attorney general expected in ferguson, missouri today. and then you the springfield news leader with headline, a calmer night on tuesday. protesters marched for michael bradley was killed by police on august 9 in ferguson, missouri. you see the picture there. also have the news press with the caption, the headline this morning on their newspaper, how can order be restored?
they lined the street with police in riot year and imposed a curfew, lifted it and deploy the national guard, and still the violence erupts nightly in the town of ferguson, missouri. that is a question we'll ask our next guest coming up here on the "washington journal." we are talking to eugene o'donnell who is a former police officer and john jay college of criminal justice lecture, so we'll talk to him about that coming up. getting your thoughts on whether the president obama should go to ferguson, missouri, try to quell the violence there and talk about the issue of race. keep getting your thoughts on that the first, san antonio express turns to the museum and has this headline about the government there, rick perry. rick perry gets booked and then he goes for ice cream. they are on this king is a mug shot. the governor turned himself in yesterday said that he would be fighting this with every fiber
of his being. so that from the san antonio express news this morning. and then you have the monitor out of texas courtesy of the newseum with a headline ferry boat. you see the picture there, and also -- rick perry book. he gets booked in the texas governor process on abuse of power charges the that in the valley start courtesy of the newseum. will haley, executive tractor of the texas democratic party, writes the opposing view of "usa today" on this case against governor perry saying that it was more than just hard ball politics and. and agency is looking into whether texas cancer research institute for more than 40 million in taxpayer funds to abbott and perry donors without
proper oversight. the "usa today" editorial board, a fall of one "the new york times" yesterday saying, critical of this case saying let the voters, not jurors, judge the governor's politics. the view of "usa today," the opposing view that you have on your screen is from will hail or, thank you from "usa today," the editorial board agrees with the new york times yesterday. will go with books bill florida, republican caller. go ahead. >> caller: know. i don't think the president should go. he's not even handling the country that could. why a state that they have problems? wouldn't you be afraid if you were a cop what's going on in chicago? they are lucky they have these white copts to protect them. i'm sure there's a lot of bad ones, but there's a lot of bad people out there. they are destroying their own state and the taxpayers have to
pay for the what i'd like to note is if the store owners would have shot him for robbing? next time probably he would've killed the store owner. but if a store owner was shot, what would've happened? would they have still rioted? i would like that answer. >> host: south carolina, democratic caller. high, sandy. >> caller: hi. i would just like to say that -- can you hear me? >> host: weekend. go ahead. >> caller: eric holder going out there may be a good idea if he would go out there and not focus on racism, and focus on the race that they're complaining about, okay? parents sitting at home at night and giving them an education so the black people, as you all call them, can get better jobs. instead of them out watching games and doing whatever they're doing, sit at home and give it
kids an education. rick perry, this is kind of strange because all it is we are thinking of the democratic party at home, okay, is a way to hush him. he is a good contender. he has strong values. >> host: i'm going to leave it there so we can stick to our topic. mike, akron, ohio, independent dollar. >> caller: hello. yes, i'm going to support the protesters. i support them all the way, with one glaring exception. i do wish they would stop the protests either at dark or at midnight. i was a teenager in the 1960s. i recall all the protesters in the daytime. i believe they have had a chance last, i think last thursday night was a rather peaceful night at ferguson. they should've got up friday morning and maybe ron johnson, the highway patrol, should have commended them for a good piece
for my thursday night, and on friday morning say we need to do, there's no curfew but we recommend you go home at dusk or at midnight, and at least take your kids home. there's no excuse for eight or nine euros kids out of after dark. school have started right now. i guess they're delaying the school -- >> host: from cnn reporting this more, they delayed it a week. school was supposed to start on monday. that is the same day that the family announced they would be holding the funeral for michael bradley you've got a grand jury that is being called today, will begin its work and that could take weeks. mike, i'm just wondering, given that there are events that are coming up and that the tensions don't seem to be dying down, should the president make an effort, as some are saying? >> caller: i don't think he needs to show a. i don't know what good that would do. unfortunately, there are too many people in this country did
not give him the respect that he deserves. i'm glad eric holder is coming to town. whether obama shows up or not, i don't think makes much difference. one last comment to say about governor perry. if he wants to get out of trouble he needs to deal with john boehner. >> host: i'm going to live there. "the new york times" this more, frontpage, peter baker's piece writing on the front page, shared vision, varying styles. they're right about this photo that was released by the white house last week. it shows the president talking with attorney general eric holder in martha's vineyard, august 14, and this is what the two reporters write about this picture. when violence erupted last week after police shooting them is a, president obama and eric holder huddled on martha's vineyard where they were both on vacation to as the most powerful african-americans and nation confront interracial divide they come at it from font many different backgrounds and points
of view. mr. holbrooke and 63, is the one thing for. both in the photograph released by the white house and on issues and laying the crisis in ferguson, missouri. a child of civil rights era can a group shaped by the images of violence in the, alabama and joint savings at columbia university were protesters remained in office after malcolm x. now in high office he pushes for policy changes and is declined wednesday to ferguson to personally promised justice in the case of a black teenager who was fatally shot by a white police officer. mr. obama, 53, is the one seeming to hold back in the white house photograph, contemplative, brooding as if seeking to understand how events could get so out of hand. he was too young and too experienced the turmoil of the 1960s growing up in a multiracial household in hawaii and indonesia. as he now seeks balance in an unbalanced time, he wrestles with the ghosts of history that his landmark election, however failed to exercise.
so that in "the new york times." about that photograph that was released by the white house on august 14. delight in fayetteville georgia, democratic caller. should president obama go to ferguson, missouri treachery know. i don't think you should go. he should have someone representing. the problem i have, there are times like this happens we get up and we marched in protest, but the main thing we don't do is invest in our own neighborhood and to ourselves. us black folks have enough money now we can make a difference. but we let the devil come between. if you want to make two dogs fight, throw one vote out of. we don't understand. every race that comes in this country, -- stomach with you always come here to do what? to improve someone else's life. now we can do better if we worked together. all black neighborhoods, so he's getting rich.
getting everybody rich but ourselves. >> host: virginia, janice, republican caller. where are you from? what's the city traffic a little place called ladies, west virginia. i'm -- a state trooper in the late '60s. i'm 77. a group of us went to a get-together tonight the riots started in baltimore. richard scammon and told us to disperse and actually saw armored vehicles down the street in the late '60s. my husband was sent to the eastern shore for riots down there. he was there about a week. he came home and he said to me if they fired at us, we're supposed to use another street. we were told to take the dogs out of town. at the time the statements might have had five dogs. but anyway, he came home and he said to me, i don't have a job if i can't arrest the bad guys, i don't have a job. he left the state police and went back to college.
and you're going to lose a lot of good policemen over this. my problem is we have not learned to do with this since the late '60s. i mean, it should be just. >> host: jenne, given that -- i'm sorry, i was talking over you when you said that about the president what you think, should -- tried to either one a thing to happen to this man. >> host: all right. we'll go to jake and tallahassee, florida, independent caller. >> caller: how are you doing? i believe president obama should go to ferguson, you know, with relationship between police and residents of their already. if you were to go and say something that would uplift everybody, i think that that would help the situation. >> host: all right. and you think he can play that role treachery welcome he's our president, you know? people don't necessarily like them too much right now but the bottom line is he still is most
powerful man in our country and i think he does have the ability to do something positive for the people in ferguson right not. >> host: we will go to maryland, democratic caller. help me with your name. >> caller: [inaudible] i think president obama should not go to ferguson because of the fact he has appointed eric holder, and eric holder is our point person in this country for justice, and i am positive because of my personal experience with them that he will do the right job. and as far as president obama, he's the best. that goes out to all c-span callers, and we thank you. >> host: on a attorney general eric holder's record from "the new york times" this month, under mr. holder the justice department has opened nearly two dozen such investigations into police departments -- previous fg
to the department data. so mr. holder has looked into so mr. holder has looked into mr. holder has looked into the conduct of the police department more than the previous five years under the star holders leadership. tyrone, wedgwood maryland, independent caller. go ahead. >> caller: edge would maryland. i was calling to, i think the president should go down to missouri because i don't think there's much you can do. if they want to change first off they need to address that only 6% of the population to represent themselves, and also there are offices running unopposed which need to be addressed. and on top of that, i want to address the police training. the police training has become so militant that they see individuals as objects. so when they shoot to eliminate a threat, shooting basically to
eliminate an object as opposed to an individual. i think they should look at least before they pull the gun, does this guy have a nice what should i mason? should i shoot in? should occasio occasion and? they don't make any decision like that. one within about doctrine. i think they need to incorporate some diverse training into it. also with some interpersonal skills, stuff like that. >> host: we're going to talk about the coming up next year on the washington sure in a few minutes. for someone to show a video message put out by democratic missouri governor jay nixon yesterday on the situation in ferguson. here's some of what he had to say. >> the democratic elected prosecutor and attorney general of the united states each have a job to do. their obligation to achieve justice in the shooting death of michael brown must be carried out thoroughly, probably, and directly. and i call upon them to meet those expectations. finally, once we have achieved
peace in ferguson and justice for the families of michael brown, we must remain committed to rebuilding the trust that's been lost, maintain what's been broken. and healing the wounds that we have endured. this is hard. nothing about this is simple. we won't always get it right, but we're going to keep trying because ferguson is a test, a test not just for the people of this community, but for all americans. and it's a test we must not fail. last week i met with and prayed with the mother of michael brown. she has lost a son who she can never bring back. but what we can do is work together to ensure that michael brown's death is not remembered as a tragedy that sparked a
cycle of violence and distrust, but rather marks the beginning of a process of healing and reconciliation. so i asked that we continue to stand together as we work to achieve justice or michael brown, restore hope and peace to the streets of ferguson, and marched together for the future of greater opportunity for all of us. >> host: that is the governor of missouri yesterday in a video message put out talking to the residents of the ferguson about the situation there. the protesters continued last night. the family of michael brown announcing that the funeral will be held monday. eric holder is traveling there today, the attorney general will meet with law enforcement, fbi asked the justice department oversees that investigation. and some are calling on
president obama himself to head to ferguson, missouri. on fox.com, which is headed up by ezra klein, why obama won't give the ferguson speech his supporters want. this is what they say inside of this piece but the public is the widest old was obama can bridge divide. big lake with good reason that he widens them. they learned of his early in his presidency when obama said the police had acted stupidly when they arrested harvard university professor skip gates on the porch of his own home. the backlash was this. to defuse it obama ended up inviting both gates and the arresting officer for beer summit at the white house. nor is obama to bridge the red/blue divide anymore. presidents are polarizing figures, and obama is more of a polarizing president than most. there is a picture of the beer summit that many of you remember
that president obama held at the white house. should present obama go to ferguson, missouri? mario, independent caller. go ahead. >> caller: thank you, good morning. i enjoy the show every morning. first of all, that's one reason for them to go, but i think that's when referring to go but i think he would look pretty bad golfing in missouri. i don't know if african-americans would really like that. why does he have to go? descending eric holder. you just play the governors a. exercise power. the guy was proud to be reading a script, governor nixon, and they still have the troublemakers coming down from chicago. so you're going to go there as a crowning achievement. this has nothing to do with this michael brown. this is all about the democrats are going to exercise power. they want to probably flip the city, create a whole new wave of agitators. this president is horrible. one thing come why would present
obama go down to missouri? these are african-american people who have been here for generations. he was raised in hawaii if you read the article. is basically a center raised by a white mother and a white family. pso ancestral roots to black americans and what blacks go through. 60% of the people came out in east st. louis, right next to ferguson, 60% of the black people unemployed. he has done nothing for black people. it's always good to get a ride going so you can exploit the situation, create all kinds of chaos. so maybe there's a golf course in missouri he did go there. i would love to see him do that. >> host: greg, wisconsin, republican caller. >> caller: how are you doing? i don't understand, for me, i know there is a lot of unrest and until i heard the tops report about the six shots that mr. brown told, i don't agree with that at all. but to me, and i for the comment
that the economy in ferguson is really bad but i don't understand why they're trashing a third of the businesses there will improve their economy or change the decision or the outcome. and sending government officials down there, this type of situation happens in alaska and florida and oregon and tennessee and kentucky, but they don't send eric holder down there, or the president doesn't go there. he rarely goes to places where there is massive natural disasters. >> host: do you think eric holder should not even be going? >> caller: i don't think that's right. i don't think i federal officials to go down there. i agree with the fbi and i think they need some guidance and some help with the investigation, but i think wasting taxpayer dollars to send a federal official that gets paid as much as mr. holder does, they should be dealing with other factions that are more important for the entire country, not just a community.
community needs help of course, but it boggles the mind of a president that ran on let's reduce spending. excuse me. >> host: all right, greg. >> life program to tell you about today. sister simone campbell, a speech at the kennedy action partnership today. you can watch her remarks live right now on c-span. and although the later a discussion on the ukraine-russia conflict. the brookings institute is hosting an event. you can see it you can see it live to be an eastern also on c-span. be sure to join us tonight when present the new york ideas for super tuesday preview. >> it's a cultural explosion. what has that meant in terms of your brand? it's nice to have 17 million, have that show -- >> eighteen spent excuse me. never get your numbers wrong.
but do you need a massive hit like that speak with no. it's wonderful to have something that is both of very high quality, very much on brand and that breaks through, becomes a global fund am gone, has huge backend home video attached to it. the other side of the coin is the most pirated show on television but i always say in response to the, that's the bad news the good news, 18 million people are watching illegally. that is mike and i believe in david and dan, listening to their visions, seeing their passion. david and dan really are quintessential to it. and love the product. they know it in their bones.
they'd read it. and i think for george, whose whole life is built around books, kevin trusted them with the legacy of the series speaks volumes about just how special they are. >> even though it was high technology, it's really not giving us the medicines we need. last year only 27 new drugs were approved. 27, for all diseases, not just cancer. the business model of the pharma companies isn't hard to understand but it's basically the same one used by hollywood. they go out and they find interesting projects. they bring them in house. they polish and. they give him through sensors, the fda, drug development, event their marketing and advertising teams start to work to deliver it to the public but it's really long, it's a risky. that's what expensive which is
why like hollywood, drug companies choose to be blockbuster. when you think about targeted medicines are more like those little indie art films. not a big audience. the problem is that costs the same amount of money to make a little indie art film that does to make a hollywood blockbuster to get it through the process. so if you're making a niche drug, a targeted drug for a cancer, the result is a ends up being phenomenally expensive. the more expensive it is the harder it is to get interest companies to pick up for, to pay for or from individual to pay for it. so the best medicines in developing the fewest people. >> and that was just a portion of tonight's presentation of the new york ideas festival. you can see all of that event starting at eight eastern on our companion network c-span tonight.
>> find our television schedule one week in advance at c-span.org and let us know what you think about the programs you are watching. calls at (202) 626-3400 or e-mail us at email@example.com, join the c-span conversation, like us on facebook, follow was on twitter. >> and more now from this morning's "washington journal." we look into the role of local enforcement when there is civil unrest. this segment is about 50 minutes. >> those -- >> host: joining us from chicago this morning is eugene o'donnell, a lecturer at john jay college of criminal justice and a former police officer for the new police department serving from 1982-1984. mr. o'donnell, what is the role of the police force in ferguson, missouri? >> guest: at this particular junction it's to try to engage the community, and we believe it's reasonably it is occurring at least on some level, peace te
could be maintained in order to be maintained. a small number of people a fair bit of traveling there to create havoc in the town to be driven out and taken into custody. and then, of course, there's some long-term issues, many of them by the way our political issues but we are seeing here is a fairly collapse of civic society and a broken political system at that level, and a lot of this conversation is about a broken political system throughout the country. >> host: we can talk more about at large. what is the role of the national guard in ferguson, missouri transfer essentially to give assistance and to be there to assist with parameters, but obviously this is all being done by the seat-of-the-pants. it was not a tremendous amount of time to plan this so this is contingency planning. fortune from all accounts the proper focus remains on convincing the people and i don't think they need a lot of convincing in the community,
that whatever damage that's been done, that there is a need for justice to be done but that there can only be bad results from violence and damage and if property is damaged, businesses are hurt, that could have an impact that would go on for decades. >> host: talk about all the different law enforcement presence on the ground in ferguson, missouri. you've got county police. you got the highway patrol. who are all of these -- what all these police forces and how do they work together? >> guest: there are 18,000 police departed in the country and with state police, local police, county police. so it's an amalgam of those folks coming together and that raises questions about chain of command. we talk about crowd control, when training is an issue whether they that expertise into and. that's usually the best indicator. so we have to plan for every
contingency. you have to plan for the long-term but you also have to again actively engage because we saw this, we have seen it already in ferguson. we sought in occupy wall street. people at occupy wall street refused to allow for the most part people to come in, bent on anarchy and bent on hurting people. >> host: ya thomas jackson is ws the ferguson police chief. if captain ronald johnson who is the missouri highway patrol. what is the chain of command? >> guest: i'm not clear what the chain of command is an ultimate these are political issues. the governor has inserted himself properly and so there's a mix of least decisions being made and political decisions. and chain of command is a crucial question as to what the division of labor is and who can give orders, and we don't have a whole lot of experience, fortunately it incorporates the national guard in in peacetime. so it's a process of learning
and getting the balance right here is exquisitely difficult. you could probably criticize this response at every level and be right, because it's difficult. the first night there was criticism of overreaction. that followed in short order with criticism of under reaction where merchants were saying they felt unprotected. so the two best police department in the country and crowd control, lapd, nypd are both tarnished by their own issues. lapd for not acting quick enough in my car the part in making arrests. nypd at the republican convention for being too aggressive and being accused of stifling people's rights to assemble and be heard. >> host: are you saying that you can't distinguish the chain of command in ferguson, missouri or in general, is there just not a clear chain of command? >> guest: in general, you're talking about a larger issue than a local police department
can deal with so then you bring in and outside jamaica man and a well-prepared an organization is on paper is one issue, and how well those plans come together in reality is another question. so some areas of the country there's probably some very good coordination around civil disorder, some communities much less so. and all these plans are really only can be evaluated when you've got to stand them up and make them work in real-time. there's no victory laps here. there's no winners. you have to work on this minute to minute. you can have a good day followed by a bad day. and this takes a sustained focus, and people will get tired, including the leadership, you've got to account for the. the longer it goes on the more we agree people are liable to become an job to figure out how to bring fresh people in while maintaining, you know, command structure of. >> host: what is the training like for the police force to deal with what we're seeing in
ferguson, missouri, the aftermath of the shooting death of michael brown? >> guest: it would vary greatly in this country. said every department almost would have their own unique brand of training. some would be fairly sophisticated, some would be rudimentary. almost all of it would be inadequate. we don't do a great job training the police in america. partially because we will don't want to come to grips with what they do, which is used for some people. obviously a lot of other things but a core competency that they get called on to do is use force in april system that we own, and then we don't want to come to grips with it. a lot of police training will be basic, and in some cases, you know, nonexistent essentially, and will not be hands on. it will not give people particular skills, and even where they do, the history of this is when you actually have to have a response, that's when
you make a better assessment of how well people are trained. ..lecturer at john j. college of criminal justice joining us this morning for a discussion about the role of police in civil disturbances. there has been a lot of discussion about the militarization of police across this country. is the training available for the equipment that these police officers are receiving? >> well, there's real serious concerns about mill terryization of police and giving weaponry and whether there's oversight that's adequate, and if you only had a couple of hundred bad police departments in the country, that would be a today limb ma and something tells me you probably did out of 18,000, so there has to be oversight. but that can't be balanced with denial about reality. i'm sitting in chicago today at i'm sitting in chicago today at about reality so there is a
hostage situation in the suburbs you have an active shooter situatiosituation coming even tn 9/11 when i was in that city not knowing the scope of that attack and how long it would go on for and that events in boston. we have the reality that the police chiefs i know are not abiding their hands to get on weaponry. they are collected over this and have to be ready for individuality is and the likelihood is again overreaction and under reaction criticism where we are spending a lot of time on the overreaction side there is another site about this where the police could be accused of not acting. >> host: let's get to the locals. the fourth line this morning for law enforcement (202)585-3883. barbara, you are first in connecticut. democratic caller. >> caller: good morning. what i wanted to say is i don't quite understand why they would
send him so much -- so many different police officers. none of them seem to have much training to be working with all of that heavy equipment. it just seems so wrong. and it's like little boys, so happy to put on helmets and have guns and be on television and they just look silly and they are killing people and hurting people unnecessarily. they just needed to not do this and have the national guard and everybody else go. just have them in case anything happens to work along with the local police. >> guest: this is not a political conversation is a premed at conversation. a conversation about the law and what's necessary to do and we
have the police looking heavy-handed but the merchants are claiming that the police were standing down and not protecting men and i think if you talk to the residence by all accounts they are ambivalent about the situation and concerned about police looking militarized and also the history of this in this country where there have been riots many of the communities just never recover. those are the balancing acts the police has to do it again over this is being done in our names and let's not pretend a lot of the issue that hangs out here is our failure to come to grips with what the police do in this system that we own and i just have to say i find it amazing how they are the partners of the police in this. i see people running for cover and not acknowledging. it's an imperfect and brutal system based on force.
when you say it's not working perfectly it seems to me you have a duty to tell us what can be done better in a practical way not to deny the realities and what the police have to deal with which our many different challenges in an unpredictable situation. for example there are people coming to this town for the purpose of going head to head with the police to get on cable television for seven seconds and to cause destruction to the people that live in the town so you have to reckon with it. >> host: la times put together this graphic equipment for the local police acquired by the state and local police department. since 2006, 345 binary system vehicles, helicopters come over 1200 night vision equipment, 5100 armored vehicles and almost 80,000 automatic rifles. this is from the la times. do you have thoughts on the?
>> guest: the conversation is how did this happen and how did they get this equipment? they snuck it in? was there a lot of process? i've seen elected officials and united states senators saying washington allow this to happen. the reason these are happening is there is serious issues while enforcement is confronted with. some of it has to do with things like criminalizing drug abuse and the broken mental-health system where the elected officials can step up and do their job and help the police and admit that this is their -- they are the architects of the system we live in that rather than dbut ratherthan do that ofe political spectrum now is the street officers that are going to be blamed for these issues. we have to have ownership of this. the governor's statements today, evestatement today,even the pref pushing us down and making it a street police issue we have a lot of fergusons in this country
and a lot of disinvestment and denial about the circumstances on the ground and the idea that we are just going to simply make this into a citizen police interaction conversation. i find that very disingenuous. >> host: as you know in your opinion it's the lawmakers and the wall that they've put on the books. >> guest: absolutely we operate in the incarceration nation. we have a tremendous amount of broken infrastructure like mental-health. we don't want to confront. it involves taking people's freedom and a chance to have liberty and we have a legislation factory in every state and the federal government more laws and statutes for the police to be in conflict with people. the apparent incident and ferguson is to young people walking in the street.
many of your listeners will be surprised not many states have statutes like that actually get the police into these conflicts. and then we express horror we have these conflicts. to reduce these kind of issues is for political leadership to lead and reduce the amount of conflict that' that the police e being thrust into particularly in the communities where the political leadership is so bankrupt and where people are not engaged, they are alienated and the only services often are policing services. >> host: carterville illinois. independent. >> caller: thank you for taking my call. on the last question sending
obama to ferguson or not i would say no because when it comes to race relations in the past he has always dumped gasoline on the situation a and assuming eric holder he is just one of those radicals and i stress the word radical and i don't think that he wants to find a solution and find peace. that's not his style. >> host: do you have any thoughts on the attorney general headed up there today? he's going to be meeting with fbi agents and also the justice department doing this parallel investigation alongside of the police force? >> guest: it is a nonpartisan failure in the board in the country on so many levels and the plan apparently is to go in and make it a police issue. justice should be done in the case to get the response ability down, deny many situations we have mike ferguson and get out
and every party, every single person that i'm aware of across the political spectrum shares responsibility for that. is there anyone here that pretended to have a plan in this country for how you would engage people when you have the high rates of unemployment, failed education this is an effort to turn away. we have to talk about the need to engage people that civic engagement to have people voting and being active. that is the root of this and elected officials seem to not want to own up to the wedding date coownership and it would be to a control officer issue. >> host: tom is a law enforcement official in the pennsylvania. your thoughts? >> guest: >> caller: good morning mr. o'donnell.
i am retired from the nypd and went on a 1968 and left as you were leaving. when i came on, what is going on in ferguson isn't new stuff. this has been generational. this began in the early 60s. when i came on in 68, ferguson was times ten or 15 or 20 different places. we had not only black panthers and the black liberation army we had a lot of different groups looking to kill cops and we have to come to grips with the racial aspect of this. >> host: when you were in the police force did you have any sort of training to deal with race issues and racial
sensitivity? >> caller: we used plain common sense like you would like everybody to be treated. >> host: we have to come to grips with the reality that it is the biggest law enforcement and society. as people swore to protect the law equally and we have to in this conversation remember that extremism this isn't cheering for teams that this isn't policing everyone. this is trying to find the ground that most people are and we have to reckon with the fact i'm hopeful as the country gets more diverse and the generation comes along and people have mixed different in themselves
that there would be the culture. it would take is a lot further along in creating the law enforcement. the responsibility the police have is extremely skilled jobs. they have four years of training or some such thing for the actual if you make an inventory especially in the big cities is staggering and on the front line without any due process we have to own this and stop pretending this is what our system. do we want to spend the money, do we want to reimagine this?
speaking of extremism, you have people running around there seems to be a significant number of people that wish you didn't need the police, just that the police or some sort o are some a sinister outfit that is imposed on us. that is a distorted vision of reality. i guess the point that people are unhappy to see the scenes of violence and weaponry and cell phones are making us unhappy when we see what the police do in our name that would be really good if we took it to the next level and started initiating the reforms in the nation that is so punitive and have spent so much time walking each other up. >> host: centreville alabama. >> caller: i have a couple things to say.
i wonder if people realize -- i have seen so many bad things in chicago. i understand they have a hard job but to strip people in the street, to do those kind of things do next thing they do -- >> guest: the only answer to the democracy is to participate and do so in our responsibility and that is not an answer for anything into the police are intimate off the conflicting demands all the time and we hear
about the brutality and overreach while at the same time in many places to number one complaint is that they can't get their attention to come and take care of their issues. they've been awake for two years because of the noise and nobody will engage the issue. if they complain that you bring the police and they ask them to lower the radio and they don't do it, that's the issue for policing. what say you when somebody refuses to do that? the police can talk to them nicely and console them but that is an issue you may have to have enforcement and are you willing to own that or do you want to have a conversation in which denial is what you want to say?
this is an issue of lot where police officers do the best they can but all of them but a lot to get people to acquiesce to the lawful authority to those that we make to those that are made by lawmakers and saudis as you are under arrest. what would you say about what the police should do at that point? >> host: how police trained to stop a threat. how do they train to stop a threat ithread in this article s the multiple times a suspect is not unusual. >> guest: that' >> guest: that's because the only reason to be firing a weapon is if your likings in the balance for the most part in a professional police department and so if you are in a life and death struggle where uvb view are going to die how many shots would you fire in that circumstance, would you fire one shot where uvb view her life was hanging in the balance?
as a prosecutor i invested the shootings and sometimes you worried about this .-full-stop terrible and it's a difficult balance it would be a one-shot shooting. the police have very basic firearm sales. they miss a lot. recall the entire state building shooting. it's because we don't want to turn the police into snipers. they are ordinary people. you want to give them basic competency and also when they do hit sometimes they hit people multiple times and people are still able to kill the police. about the need to say in a city like new york where there's been some recent criticism in custody and alive i'm sure that many
other places it is an extraordinary police restraint 35,000 police officers perhaps as few as 50 shootings a year with adversaries and almost in every single case a person is armed and brandishing a weapon. >> caller: one of the things as i was watching everything why can't the police use by pacs like paintball guns that can't wash off shows under ultraviolet so they can catch these people and we don't have to worry about apprehending them right then and sending police officers to their death basically sending them into a mob situation like that. >> guest: begins to be much more creative to make arrest
situations in such. people talk about the military and how it can be bad to get equipment from the military apparently spearheading reliable nonlethal weaponry which would be at the top of the list if our elected officials want to step up your day will make up the number one priority in the next few years. it is a within the police can use double disabled person who can then stand up 30 seconds later after they are in custody. it's an believable in this high-tech society in this league year we are still using firearms that are lethal to bring people into custody t. be brought tb be the bar of justice. >> host: rate in massachusetts independent caller. >> caller: good morning. one of the difficulties i see is that when the police were taken off the beat and out of the neighborhoods where they got to know the young people johnny
started messing up when he was eight and explained to them what he is doing wrong. if all of the police officers there were only two that were here. the other thing i noticed is you can basically tell the police officers attitude based on their haircut if it is a military style those are the ones i have discovered are apt to cause problems. so it's not just the police responsibility that citizens response ability. that's number one. and number two, i believe with the grievance industry we sent people into violence and anger based on the individual's desire to get press. two examples are al sharpton and jesse jackson here in ferguson raising all kind of hell over
the tragic shooting but there isn't enough being said about the murders in chicago so i think it's individuals like those and others who are whipping up the violence and these crimes. >> lee can do both simultaneously without ideology. we have to worry we have a problem in chicago and other cities and we have to face that and legitimizing the police and building a good report with communities will be a win-win for the country. but again i don't nee mean to sy that you are an extremist. it is either or recite picking. the law-enforcement pledge of allegiance to assist people equally and we can do both. we can have a police force that's respectable and that
engages these issues but they it would be helpful to us as a country if we look at the footprint of the police which in many communities is far too big. they are overtaxed and we can find out some of the issues on mental health which some of the worst issue is the police have had to deal with are a direct result of abject failure to step up and have a reliable until health infrastructure that the number one medical issue in the country by all accounts by the medical school we don't want to funfund it or confront it and se allow the police to be mental health providers and we confess to be shocked and send police officers onto the weapons. the very worst idea that you can think of to assist people in the crisis. >> host: we are talking with eugene from the police department in new york 1982 to 84 and he's now a lecturer at the criminal justice.
mr. obama will as a former police officer, somebody that studies this august 9 the day of the shooting of michael brown what stands out to you about him being pulled over from the beginning to the end to the fatal shot? >> guest: i don't alternately know how the facts will come down. it's hard to talk about this. we have entered the officers account. the overaggressive criminal justice system b, the state
humiliation that causes people that the jail cell is also available where investment with humans is not and i lament this is a terrible passing of the human life and there will be a focus on the police issues exclusively relative to the much larger issues because there is no plan for ferguson and to engage those things in any party and take the ideology out of this these are larger issues than picking a party we need to say that and we need to look in the mirror because it is really about ourselves. again we own this brutal system of ours and we just are doing everything we can to not acknowledge that. the system that incarcerates the system based on force and based
on essentially the system that ends up in incarceration for a lot of the minority people. we need to own that. this isn't the police by and large doing this in a vacuum. this is our engagement or lack thereof that are causing these conditions. >> host: taylor michigan democratic caller you were on the air with eugene o'donnell. >> caller: thinks c-span. the police tuesday i don't know if they ever shot but i don't think that anybody was ever told by those police. i agree with that man from massachusetts. we said this is our neighborhood, this is our city and it never harassed us or
anything. and the officer and i had five friends older and younger. not being from other cities there is no connection when you hire somebody from outside of the city or from north state of no connection with the people there. >> guest: is a public service and honorably believe what they peaceful society without the police but i think for most of us to recognize you have to have the police i teach in the school and many people are going to be police officers. officers. we ordered me not want people to go into this profession and elevate this profession and do we want to make public service
something worthwhile that people will look at? as much as i am criticizing elected officials today and the regular c-span watcher. across the political spectrum and regrettably because the system is to some extent dysfunctional wonder how many good people in this country would run for office if it were a more functional system and the parallel to that is i think every day we lose good people that want to be police officers for the right reason to say i'm not going to go on this job because no matter what i do i'm going to be criticized. particularly because it is normally done in the poor and minority communities and again, let's accept ownership. why is that the case that is a political decision >> host: does it matter that very few on the force are
african-american? >> guest: it is better to have a representative group of people but the larger question is having people that are there for the right reasons and motivated while and i understand in ferguson to be careful not to minimize the complexities of this and that salaries are allegedly uncompetitive to other places it is hard to keep people and the common phenomenon in the law enforcement that you get some good people and they don't necessarily want to stay. they go off to greener pastures. >> host: republican caller in california. >> caller: remember one thing that back in 1997 with the lapd, the reason the police are more militarized now is the force had automatic weapons so people try
to figure out why the police are looking like military it's because of that reason. now, later on we've got to figure out more and more. they are looking like military, right? so it's not a racial issue if you are black, white, mexican if you are criminal you are criminal and that is the bottom line. >> host: your thoughts? >> guest: they would go to the gun stores to get the guns in real-time. fortunately millions and millions of police calls later we've never had something like that happening again so we take one event and blow it out of proportion and there is a danger changing the mindset that way
resolve the events of boston where the combat was being done in the streets. we don't have a domestic terrorism unit and even if we did we wouldn't get there in time. i don't hear a lot of people talking about that in the course of those events when they minimized the risk to police people in these events so yes they have to be ready to continue these and that can be carried to an extreme and there has to be local control in the police and some of the teams there can't be. you really can't have adequate controls it is very nuanced we have to get into the weeds and see where these are needed and make our best judgment about denial or overstatement are the enemy is here to try to make rational decisions about what the police should be doing in the society. >> host: the police forming a wall against citizens of bad optics that fostered the then
versus us mentality when the cops or to protect the citizens. bob in indiana. independent color. >> caller: good morning. i would like to make two points. number one, the police initially were not law-enforcement officers, they were peace officers and their job was to keep the peace. they moved to law-enforcement officers and that places the amount they are in support of the law they are placed against the communities. and another point that i would like to make is the refusal of law enforcement for a federal state and local because of the come -- ca come artery to protet
those officers. >> host: eugene? >> guest: the notion that it's from somewhere unknown, i haven't seen any lawmakers repealing any of the law since we got thousands and thousands and yes there is absolutely an issue of sometimes the police and a cohesive police force and well-trained and well disciplined with the right motives can be e. central. there is a problem in the police culture and medical culture where people look after each other and that is an ongoing issue that you have to confront. >> host: there was a paper about the national guard called up by the governor and you were quoted as saying it's the worst scenario.
why? >> guest: i also say that it shames our country which it does because of the failure to the underlying issues. so this scenario of the city which i was referencing the collapse of the civic society that is what that tells you is the alienation levels are so high and there is a lack of political will and creativity we are going in the one direction but is literally militarizing a civic society issue we are using the military and 98% of the debate rages on about the action of the patrolman with the justice will hopefully not only do justice but will appear to do justice. we need to look at a much larger picture and it undoubtedly is
going to be a trail back to ourselves. >> host: past in washington, d.c.. >> caller: good morning. i agree with most of the things your guest has said. my only concern is the police officer in ferguson overreacted. once he saw that michael brown's hands were in the air he should have stopped shooting but i understand once you start you can't stop yourself until what you fear is a threat to you is gone away. but once his hands were exposed he was no longer a threat. >> host: what do you think? >> guest: i won't get into that issue because the more that we see the less we know so that's why it will continue to be the issue going forward. >> host: so on the facts rolling out slowly we don't know everything yet. the grand jury is going to be formed today and from the
newspaper reports that will take weeks. it's done in secrecy. do you agree with that decision of having a grand jury in that people don't know it's not out in the public and it's not transparent? >> guest: in some places they can do a report. i worked in front of grand juries as prosecutors. they are secret and frankly they are controlled by the prosecutor's office and then it's used to sanitize a decision-making process rather than the decision ultimately is made and there will be a claim that it will be an exhaustive grand jury so it's not going to be that exhaustive and they will come with a finding and then the political establishment will put this on the finding that the people in the grand jury make and i'm not saying it's a bad process. we just need to be aware of its
limitations and hopefully this will be explained to people. one of the things we need to know is the police in the country as the surrogates have a tremendous mandate to use force and it is in most places in this country extremely difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that an officer is unjustified in an on duty police shooting where there is no malice towards somebody if they knew who that person was. that's not me speaking or endorsing an outcome that is the legal system in the country that we elect people to make that law that the law that we have with selself-defense of this countryr the police. >> host: the dod spokesman john kirby talked about this pentagon the weaponry and other equipment and passes it down to the police force. here's what he had to say.
>> guest: i understand this is an issue of concern. this program is not -- we don't push equipment on anybody. this is excess equipment for taxpayers have paid for we are not using anymore and it's made available to the law-enforcement agencies if they want it and qualify. in other words there is a lot of due diligence. we are not going to give more equipment or equipment that's inappropriate for use by the law-enforcement agency that is small and doesn't need it just because they ask for a helicopter doesn't mean they get a helicopter. there's a lot of thoughts that go into this. we aren't militarizing law-enforcement or pushing things out. it's a process by which this equipment is available should they deem that they needed and wanted.
>> guest: you can be sure that it's not enough oversight. and then newtown connecticut you have an active shooter in a high school, the police have arrived and they start shooting the faculty and the kids in the school. they simply sit and twiddle their thumbs said it's an attempt to have it both ways. it is a serious issue down the line to the local officials and so you have to assault rifles in the hands of people that shouldn't have been and it's hard to get them back once they are given out and so this requires real focus of this
agency should get it an into ths agency shouldn't and this is why and then sort of say as elected officials are saying they don't know how they got to the police. >> host: what is your perspective on cameras on police vests which have shown a decrease in police misconduct? >> guest: they will embrace it. i'm not sure the citizens are going to like the big brother issue or that it's going to build trust and i would have serious concerns that police officers knowing that there's trouble would spend their time on 11th street. >> host: what are you watching for next in ferguson missouri? >> guest: i'm watching for the news cycle to go off of this and i'm not at all hopeful that the root causes of this and the realities of this art going to be part of the conversation.
i try to be optimistic, but this has been going on for a long time now in the last few days and it is a festering issue that has been going on and the optics of this provide great cable 24 hour coverage but the substance of this doesn't and i don't think we are going to be -- i don't see any indication that the substance is going to take place. render as the call talked about the weaponry has been given out to the police for years. this is nothing new. they had armored carriers for years. some of it is just equipment and helicopters into some of it is a scary weaponry that we have to work with. >> host: eugene o'donnell for a police officer and now the john jay college of criminal justice and you for your time this morning. >> guest: my pleasure.
17 million. never get your numbers wrong. [laughter] >> but do you need -- >> it's wonderful to have something that is a high-quality very much on brand that breaks through and becomes a global phenomenon and has huge back and home video attached to it. it is the other side of the coin is the most pirated show on television but i always say the response about the bad news story and the good news story is 18 million people in the united states are watching is legally that is all. that is the leaving and david and dan listening and seeking their passion. david and dan really are
society, has pushed legislation on the economy, the war on poverty, civil rights, voting rights in education, the environment command today you're taking a look at immigration. joining us this morning is the chief of the historical research branch at th of the u.s. citizep and immigration services which was formerly the ins immigration naturalization services. thank you for being here. >> guest: thank you for inviting me. >> host: let' >> host: that stuck up at this picture october 31965 episode of the statue of liberty. lyndon johnson is signing into law the immigration naturalization act. what did this do? >> guest: that was the amendment to the immigration and nationality act of 1952. we call it the ina. the amendments regarding the selection of immigrants come how people immigrate to the united states it ended at the national
origins system that had been in place since the 20s and limited immigration from the eastern hemisphere. we are going to talk about the hemisphere and replaced it whenn the distributed egos was more fairly around the world. according to the preference categories. either family-based or skilled-based immigration. and it put a limit on immigration from the western hemisphere. from this day forth it shall be admitted on the basis of their skills and close relationships to those already here traded this is a simple test and it is a fair test. those that can contribute most to the country to the growth and its strength and its spirit will be the first admitted to this land. how did the system worked before the signing of the law?
>> guest: before, it was based on the national origins system and i brought you a couple of charts. there's the chart you are looking at there is also another chart that shows immigration overtime from 1820 to 2012 and i think it could be helpful to us. congress enacted the national origins system in the early 1920s. we have a lot of charts. i'm sorry. >> host: that's okay but the show this one. >> guest: i kind of marked in the bottom where the pink is a great wave of immigration that began in the 1880s. it was a lot more immigration and from different places than it had been in the past. so it was a reaction to that and the national origins part of the system that was enacted at the immigration act of 1921 and b. act of 1924.
they used a formula using the u.s. census and they took the number of people first 1920 census and later they would settle in the 1890s and is today they took the number of people in the census of each different nationality and then they took 3% of that number and that would be the quota for each of those countries each year for immigration. and so it worked to draw immigration from those places where people came from before. >> host: where were those places? >> guest: they were europe primarily northern and western europe. so it worked to keep people coming to the same places they came to before. that would be before ellis island even open and restrict the immigration of people from anywhere else. and the system is in effect then until 1965. the national origins system i
should say is the important part of it. >> host: and then what happened? how does the process change looks >> guest: they have to come up with a different formula how to distribute the immigrant visas. it's using the census and the 3% part and instead will distribute the visa by country and more evenly distributed them and not favor one country over another. this is primarily being distributed around the eastern half sphere. your upcoming asia and africa every place that the americas. under the quota system they hadn't had any numerical restrictions to the act that would add one ceiling for the americas that would later become individual quotas for each country.
>> host: what was going on in the country leading up to the legislation? what was the debate like? >> guest: it isn't so much about national origins. i think that in congress it costs america most people they were ready to the national origins formula behind them but there were lots of concerns beyond that around immigration and the question is if you're not going to use that formula to restrict all the members than what formula are you going to use and what are you going to replace it with and argue going to expand the limitations t exte western hemisphere or is it going to continue to be drawn quota or unrestricted? also the preference categories that traditionally have been about 50/50 versus the skills base. what about the adjusted? there's issues of lots of people and constituents who are of more
recent. people who came from italy or eastern europe or russia or soviet union were austria, hungary these people want a system amended so that more people can come. they are concerned about the availability of labor and how it would affect the economy. so it is not an unfamiliar debate. >> host: what were the predictions before the act was passed by lyndon johnson and then what actually happened? >> guest: the predictions are that nothing was really going to change that much as far as the members. it wasn't going to -- they didn't expect it or most didn't expect it to increase the numbers that much, but they wanted to open it up to the whole world and not be so discriminatory. but people did worry about
increased immigration especially if there was no limit on the western hemisphere information, the western hemisphere immigration, sorry about that. the other thing, there was some -- i don't know if i would call it shortsightedness or what about the countries that had previously been so excluded if there were no visas available for a certain country under the national origin of the system. maybe only 100 a year then the applications have always been very low to cause there was nothing to apply for it and so when someone said that the application history, nobody is s applying there anyway so we don't expect them to apply in the future. so that may have been a little misunderstanding. >> host: we are talking with
marion smith who is a historian of the chief research grant that the u.s. citizenship and immigration services about the immigration and naturalization act that was signed into law in 1965. we want to take your questions and comments. republicanrepublicans (202)585-. democrats (202)585-3880, independents and all others to 853882. send an e-mail firstname.lastname@example.org. let's show the viewers this pamphlet. this is from april, 1966. it is the end reporter. what is this? >> guest: it is a magazine that the immigration service published from 1952 through into the 1980s. it is a quarterly reports to the service into the public about
changes and development and explains they had a early article they are about 65 amendments and where they talk about the impact that's expected. obviously, they have to revise all the forms. they had to rewrite regulations and coordinate many changes with the department of labor and the department of state all of whom had roles in immigration and projecting their workload into the future which they expected lots of applications. >> host: they expected an influx of locations. is that what happened? >> guest: they expected it to start immediately, and of course it did. and people who -- the opportunity had appeared to apply. in opportunity that hadn't been there for so long for so many
people and so of course they would apply. >> host: how would people go about applying? >> guest: since 1924 with the visa system someone who wants to immigrate will apply for the visa and since 1965 we need to have someone in the united states apply or support these applications are the visa and that goes to the state department. but they don't come and knock on the door like they did when they came to ellis island. they knock on the door of the embassy or consulate abroad. >> host: said that still exists today? >> guest: yes. what from 1965 still exists today? >> guest: the act of 1952 is the law that governs immigration today so it is still on the books. it was amended in 65 regarding the legal immigration and it's been in it or modify it in some
ways by the series of legislation since. the 1965 act, for example, in the visa categories made a small category for the conditional entrance which would allow for the adjustment of refugees who had come in but need a way to become immigrants from the refugee status and so later of course we have the refugee act of 1980. the immigration act of 1990 created the diversity category. there's many changes that go but no significant change to the way the system works. >> host: what are some of the highlights from the first piece of wood decision to 65 act amended? >> guest: the 52 act? it was a codification of the prior immigration law.
immigration had been governed previously by the act of 1917 which was on the books until 1952 into the act been superseded and is still on the books today. what's more -- >> host: the current debate that we are having today about immigration reform people will say we have laws on the books now. i'm wondering when people say that, do they know and does it mean that the walls that are onn the books today go back as far as 1952? >> guest: yes. they go back farther. it's a question we might want to look at that chart again with the purple. because, i look at things with a longer view and so let's look at it that way. originally if you look from 1820
and even before our policy in this country was in that sense a lack of a policy is free and open immigration. we all render that. proportionately it may have been high but that was the policy. as we talked about before wit wh the great wave of immigration, the federal government implemented a system of exclusion. exclusion means pretty much again everybody is welcome to come unless you meet one of our exclusions. in other words, no criminals, people with dangerous diseases. people would be a public charge that is people who can't support themselves. a long list of exclusions that would be checked for and ellis island or another part of the entry there is no limit on the number, just they would call it the quality of immigration. once we start into the national
origins partly added the element of the numerical restriction that is the number of people admitted each year is limited and we use a visa system to do that. you can't be admitted without a visa and so there is never going to be as many as there are people that want one. and so, all of these laws from the 1890 the ac 1890, the act o, 95 a.m. and the basic policy and in 1924, they all have these provisions and they cover the admission exclusion, deportation and the rest. >> host: we will talk later about this spike that we are seeing in 1980 it looks like around the 86 reform.
you are up first. independent call. independent call. go ahead. >> caller: yes. i wonder if the good lady could address the issue of the exclusion of jews who were fleeing nazi is during world war ii and prior to that and also if she could discuss how the income immigration was emphasized at the turn-of-the-century and before for the purpose of building up the american workforce. thank you very much and i wish you all the best. >> guest: the jewish immigration prior to world war ii into the other was that the system worked to build up our economy in the united states system. >> guest: you can make a note of that because i will forget. the national