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tv   Key Capitol Hill Hearings  CSPAN  October 29, 2014 9:00pm-11:01pm EDT

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>> >> i am the master of my fate. i am the captain of my soul. >>
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>> good afternoon. thank you for coming i am ben teeeighteen, jr. his first child from his first wife and i am proud to be his namesake. might first memory of my fathers of the dramatic side due 1951 was not quite three years old he threw me in the swimming pool at of the blue thinking you to give real wake-up of learning how to swim there were no foodies in those days and of course, i was thrashing around gasping for air after watching me he hopped into the pool and casualty scooped be up and abused by the entire scene. it was an act of tough love. i think. [laughter] it happened aboard the ocean liner as resale from york to
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paris review was embarking on a new career as the press attache at the american embassy as correspondent for "newsweek". four years later by parents were divorced and my mother and i returned to u.s. settling in boston. decade back to washington as bureau chief for "newsweek" to join the post in 1965. he remarried and i began a routine of coming down to d.c. for visits mostly in the summer. but would stay for several weeks at a time hanging out with his new wife and her four children from her first marriage they were my new step brothers and sisters. i did not see that much of data during this period because like many men of his generation he was making his life professionally working well into the night. i was never there then but
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in those ensuing years after graduating from college dad made a from those long absences and we reconnected to make up for lost time. in 1971 when i was in the peace corps after afghanistan he flew to the a their side of the world to visit me. when my first child was born on a cold to irrigate 1981 he came up to boston and delighted in holding bread in his arms and he pointed out the vote bradlee features on the face of his first grandchild. [laughter] not long after that i took greta to washington at the time dad wanted to take them on of a personal tour of the monument so they headed out with the baby people with a smile and dad would turn and
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say you know, what they are thinking that i am the father and a dirty old man. [laughter] but he would stare back at them with the big smile of his own that he was still perfectly capable to father that child safety very much. we had that in common with the newspaper business he never encouraged me to work for him and i had no conscious desire to follow but when i was in the peace corps for riverside california then and now the journalism was a lot of fun. i thought california would be new and different so it was december 19726 months after watergate.
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the post was making its mark and i was perceived by some to be a political appointee of sorts one female reporter who was a good friend told me later when she saw me that first day he's cute but can he type? [laughter] yes i could type and i worked harder than most assuming that people would forget my last name was bradlee. then worked at "the boston globe" 25 years as a reporter and editor. and it was vastly different from when he grows there he thought he continued to view through the prism of the irish when he would call to check in on me my father would always laugh.
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we would tease each other what's ahead to have minor surgery to get rid of the kidney stone by way to try to call me down he said there is no press and the operating room is there? he professed that he worried about the first celebrity the reporters should just cover the bears but the truth is those houses featured in architectural digest. not introspective in the
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least if by certain aspects of those life as it once wrote in "the new yorker" that is a socrates idea of the and examine the life. [laughter] as is well-known it was not a gratuitous swearing but a style that even those would except or enjoy. this is right tell the story but dad taught journalism should be fun he wanted to
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have a good time all you were in the job the newspaper will be great and like the coast section 19 named for those who had it he had himself by wearing one of his shares in his honor today and the tide also. early on he founded and sally would have made him happy. thank you. we'll spend one week with dad before he died i am glad i had the time with him at the and i asked if he was
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ready to check out. reset not yet but he was thinking about it. then he would reach out to take wing and then tell me that he loved me. >> a lot of people talk about my father as a legend
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ullage event ended jan and i have to agree. he was a huge man. the forum meet the was majestic fifth because he was simplest man i've ever met the because he had -- he was an impeccable father he taught me if you did all those things as well lamp teeth chi."=
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i'm >> >> they wanted to please him. he could say no i cannot do this but my dad always loved then underdog previous order with the redskins. [laughter] and he was always routine for be in part because he saw the dystrophin more than most to get by every day.
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he taught the hardship makes a life or interesting and makes the happy times happier. he would teach me and reassure me and tell his last press. my father was the man that i ever met most of what i learned it from working in the woods with dash we did not speak that much but we would talk through body language she had the most piercing eyes, x-ray eyes lighted feel his eyes across the open field watching what was doing. he never made me feel he was disappointed but showed how to do things better before cutting down a tree you must
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study it to figure out which way it is leaning and which way you wanted to fall. he taught me how to trust another person in the field once the work is done a small accomplishment that a big payoff. for meet taking care of the of place you love with a personal love is as good as it gets. as time passes i realizing there are areas in life my father was the most confident and -- a man i ever met he would never brag he did not need to build himself up.
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and he readily spread himself down. i remember somebody asking of the united states secretary of navy density was the worst in history. [laughter] life father had the deepest voice the broadest chest and though loudest part of anyone i had met. please to put my head -- i used to put my head on his chest as a kid and his heart would be so loud. i would have to move my head over to the other side of would say your heart is still beating and he would laugh he had the biggest part of anyone i ever met.
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people talk about his colorful language and in my opinion, he also had the most colorful heart. because all races and all walks of life could identify with anyone to treat equally. my father was the strongest man i ever met the last day he was able to speak he could barely keep his eyes open. later that day lying on his left side he lifted his head just barely to look over his shoulder then said i have a good feeling about you. i love you.
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those were his last words to me. is this something inside me cracked know i feel ready to take care of others i will take care of my mother. but those piercing eyes and does not need to say anything i can see him anymore i cannot hear him like to not hear the message hey buddy it is your turn. get a right kid. i am no poet but sometimes
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they get the urge to play with words. the lights are down but not off. the world goes silent. not even a cough. the pass is gentle lot of violent. for he is no longer a part of life's stages inside our hearts may achad and burn as the road continues to return we should all strive to take his path. one. ♪
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>> in our 38 years of friendship, ben bradlee never said goodbye. he only said keep the faith. i a recently learned to the second letter of timothy was his favorite biblical passage. as for me i am already been poured out as a libation and the time of my departure has come.
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i have fought the good fight. i have finished the race. i have kept the faith. from now on there is reserved for me at the crown of righteousness that the lord, the righteous the judge will give me on that day. not only to me but also to those who long for his appearing. keep the faith my friend. the word of the board. >> thanks be to god. >> i cannot hope to add to the moving chorus of
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remembrance and praise we have heard this morning in memory of ben bradlee the depth of remarks offered shows that his friends loved and admired and valued this remarkable man. there is not a lot that i can add to these tributes as a preacher but because i am their preacher it falls to me to say every ford about what christian faith proclaims in regard to along and blessed accomplish life. we heard the words of ecclesiastes telling us there is the season and a time for everything. hearing from the 23rd psalm the assurance of god's presence with us as we make our way through life that the song calls of valley of
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the shadow of death each one of these reminds us of the assurance the to deism and christianity to be sure but islam also that shows that human beings matter that lives and our experiences and joys and struggles are written on the part of the one at the center of creation. the single phrase caught me near the end of paul's words are the love we heard him say this. and now i know in part then i will though fully even as
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i have been known. >> most of us gathered to day are worldly types and liver lives thinking we know what is really going on. to suggest a deeper mystery of science we only see through a glass we know part of it cannot hold the day-to-day lives are focused on the claims of urgent. so we do see through a glass darkly but every once in awhile a person appears among us who allows us to see things more clearly in the dim light of day to day life we don't see very well at all but then people come
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along just enough to point us to recounts these people are not conventionally pious the help us to see things from god's point of view they point to justice justice, compassion truce to this year exuberance of being alive the breath and death of all possibilities now without trying to sound sentimental in a way he would have found painful to suggest ben bradlee was one of these people in his professional life and family life and french ships and his role his work and values and commitments help us to see through the darkness of
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our present moment and into a glimpse of what life is all about four people of faith the final truce is embodied in the word love it is acted out in relationships as affection and in our social relationships as justice when receive through the dark glass power and violence and selfishness will always give way to love and justice and hope in his poet mark strand from the shadow of dome's a snowflake entered your room to make its way to the arm of the chair will look up from your
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book saw it the moment it landed and that was all there was into it. when i heard of ben bradlee passing a thought of this poem not only anax on grace in the everyday moment but because frankly ben bradlee was a blizzard of one a single human being like a snowflake precious in his uniqueness clicking for the energy of a snowstorm a schuman blizzard of life and love and work and energy and charm. i thank god for sustaining a universe that justice and compassion are finally the things that matter and i think god for sending us messengers to help see through the dark glass of
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life into the troops of the heart of the universe and i thank god our personal public and spiritual lives of justice and hope and in other words, i think god 49 bradlee. amen. ♪
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>> let us pray to our lord jesus christ on the resurrection and i am a life. you consoled martha and mary in their distress. join us and dry the tears of those who weep. you left at the grave of lazarists your friend. comfort us in our sorrow. you raise the dead to life and give to our brother each journal life. you promised paradise to the
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thief who repented bringing our brother to the joys of seven. convert us at the death of our brother let our faith be our consolation and eternal life our hope crane to gather our father who are rich and have been, hallowed me thy name. liking them, i will be done on earth as it is in heaven. give us this day our daily bread forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. lead is not into temptation but deliver us from evil for thine is the kingdom, the power, and the glory. for ever and ever. amen.
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>> ben was my friend and my patient 1975 until the end of his death which was nearly 40 years per christ treasure our friendship and his welcome mike. and his autobiography is titled and is inscribed for sally and quinn and to light up my life that was rich in engagement and fun to the and the ending of our lives is uncertain with respect to cause to time and place a soft landing then had a good
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life for which sally deserves total credit. she made this journey with her parents knowing how to travel the road beginning with her total commitment to ben's welfare doing whatever is necessary to ensure the was comfortable and well able to enjoy life with family and friends given his remarkable insights and a special bond quinn knew where ben was and what would be comforting carbon and jorge were exceptional care givers providing practical and care throughout the journey.
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caring and loving support rebar present. but to celebrate the life and legacy of ben bradlee who did live up our lives. it is the most recited phrygia's images of prayer that dates back to the destruction with the exile of jews to babylonia it is the pressure associated about morning but it is not about morning but to celebrate the magnificence and glory of god would never our challenges to be tested.
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[speaking hebrew] exalted and hallowed be god's great name in the world that god created according to plan may god's majesty be revealed in the days of our lifetime to which we say amen. speaking speaking hero. [speaking hebrew] may god have his name to all eternity.
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[speaking hebrew] blessed praised and honored and exalted and extolled and glorified the the name of the holy blessed one beyond all our sleeve words to which we say amen. maybe abundance piece from heaven to which we say amen with the one who creates peace on high to which we
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say amen. >> god of compassion and be near two of you call upon your name with the course of their daily life and service. work that brings us joy to embody concern for our neighbors. make us glad and grateful for the strength to serve you and your neighbor with the commitment of every part to recognize the independence and responsibilities to one another of the destiny. let us pray to the lord praying together. make us instruments of your peace where there is hatred let us love. where there is discord, union.
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if there is despair, hope. where there is sadness, joy. grant that we not be consoled to be loved and that we are born to eternal life amen those suits will face and a great decision for all of you willing gauge unsettling affairs of people and nations. for all who mold public opinion in our time. set to work and another day
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pledge to face full-service standing in your strength and not but make all things new and let us pray to the lord. thanks be to god. ♪
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>> we are morsel from the earth and the into earth shall be returned for god
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did and as we say dust to dust we shall return and to say how alea. italia. -- how laelia. into thy hands merciful save your the commend the servant benjamin that we bcc to receive them into the arms of the mercy into the blessed rest of everlasting peace in into the glorious company of the saints in light though lord bless you and keep you and make his
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shine - - face shine upon you and be gracious to the lord lift up his countenance upon you and give you peace. >> amen.
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>> there are 200 cash prizes for students and teachers totaling $100,000. for the list of rules and how to get started go to the website. >> the guardian down and for international peace held an all-day forum examining the expansion of -- in the
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middle east. next we hear from the cultural ambassador to the u.s. on what he calls a cultural war. this is 90 minutes. >> please take your seats. we are ready to begin welcome to our panel on complicated coalition dynamics, fighting terrorism and other priorities. my name is michele dunn, senior associate here in the middle east program at the carnegie endowment. when the announcement before we start, we understand that some participants are having trouble accessing wi-fi. our itt and is working on this, but please be aware that if you have a smart fun, and if you are more on top of things that i am and
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have already updated to is8, you will not be allowed to connect to wi-fi. their is a problem with that . so, at any way, why would you need wi-fi right now? we have a fabulous panel for you to listen to talking about the coalition against isis. we are going to begin, as we go down the table here, our first participant, a professor of international relations, a columnist and has been an adviser to the chair in turkey. abdulaziz sager is chairman and founder of the gulf research center. he is president of the cyber group holding in the kingdom of saudi arabia, which is active in the fields of reformation technology,
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aviation services, and investment. and this time as a speaker to the vice-president of middle east at the carnegie endowment. now, there has been a lot of discussion about their coalition partners in the dynamics among them in the dynamics between them in the united states, for example, and how all of this shapes the willingness of the coalition partners to cooperate against the islamic state, and we welcome comment on that in this panel. but we also want to go of of it beyond that, a little bit deeper, and look at the domestic developments in sight of these countries because, of course, every country has its own unique situation that it brings to this situation. we want to talk about how each of these countries, how both the governments in the public view the islamic state. what does it mean in the country in question?
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does it represent a threat? does it receive support? what kind of threat does it represent? security, political, cultural, religious? how did these perceptions shape what the country is willing to do in the coalition against the islamic state perhaps a little bit to say about the practical military capabilities and limitations of these countries in participating in this coalition. there is also an issue of a definitional problem against terrorism. you will notice that the word terrorism is in quotes, and that is partly because there may be some differences between the united states and some of its coalition partners, and certainly among the different coalition partners about what defines terrorism, what kind of groups are involved and so forth. and we want to ask, will that contradiction prove a serious impediment to
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corporation? can we find common ground in any case? and just one brief moment of advertisement, i want to point out that my colleague at carnegie and i just authored this policy, the u.s. arab counter-terrorism cooperation and aaron regent representative for extremism. it is outside on the publication rack. let's turn first to turkey because it is obviously very much in the news now with turkey having allowed some of the kurdish pension area. so if you could begin with brief remarks about how you see the turkish position in this conflict and how particularly the domestic situation in turkey shapes what it will and will not be willing to do. >> thank you. good morning. i will do my best. now, as the number of
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conferences, panels, lectures that i attend increase, i see how pacific shares collectively not just the great powers, but regional actors and regional states certainly. so, given that fact, although i personally am within turkey has someone fairly critical, actually critical of the government policies vis-a-vis syria, and have been that way for the last three years at least. i really think that there is a projection on turkey that is not altogether warranted about how responsible turkey is for a lot of the mess that is around.
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and i find a lot of the coverage quite informative, but a lot of it also really a bit, if not biased, certainly lacking nuance in determining what the issues are, giving it the correct interpretation. now, there is no doubt that turkey is, at best, a very reluctant member of of this so-called coalition. it it certainly, in terms of what its primary purpose is not to be. and as a result of that, we have seen probably the unprecedented public falling apart of two main partners who keep on correcting one and other statements that
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americans say one thing, the turks say another. prime minister or president can say one thing in the next day we learned that because of a phone call conversation with president obama things have actually changed. the united states was not supposed to be helping. well, they did. quite frankly, in terms of relations, this is embarrassing. so what one wonders what is going wrong in terms of communication that must exist between turkey, which again is the only country bordering both iraq and syria where the guys home a big chunk of territory. that is also a nato member with plenty of capabilities not necessarily intervening militarily, and it is a
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major partner with the united states. it is inexplicable to me that they have not managed to find a common language bradleys to non embarrassing language in public in order to actually discuss what will on their problems are. that leads me to think that there is a big difference between the way the united states looks set at what is going on and help turkey looks at what is going on. to the best of my ability as i see it turkey's priorities are really different. when you look at the resolution of the turkish parliament that was passed, and you look, especially when you read its preamble, and is quite obvious that for the turkish government to the pkk, the iraq regime and others are, at best an equal threats. and some could argue based on the number of times the
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pkk and the assad regime are mentioned, and actually far more significant threats to turkish security and certainly to the conditions are to this situation in iraq and syria. now, if there is no doubt that in the past when everybody was hot on thinking that assad would be like everyone else interested the short amount of time, the turkish government did, in a rush, commit some mistakes, but a lot of misjudgment, and it has miscalculated its toleration of very diverse elements going in and out of syria, using turkish borders , how this would actually bring. and i would argue that whenever jerkies thoughts
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might have been before, i think there is no recognition in the security community of the turkish state that it is indeed a major security threat for the turkish republic. then, you may wonder why doesn't turkey than to more, whatever more supposed to mean. then i would argue that probably it is the domestic repercussions of taking a more openly active part against that is bothering are making the turkish government has a chance because at the end of the day, what i think is happening inside the country is that this general sentiment that the previous panel has actually presented to us is also being shared by a not a very significant
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part of the turkish population, but a non negligible part of the turkish population, and although i have not yet seen in the poll numbers indicating that we are moving in that direction, there may be a rising failure of sympathy for the islamic state to the extent that it is being seen under attack by a american bombs, by the westerners, or others therefore, i think the main concern of the turkish state in trying to find its proper strategy and proper tactics in dealing with the threat of the isis is really how to make sure that the non existing borders between the -- outside and isis inside the country, how that can be controlled, whether or not turkey would be vulnerable to terrorist activities within its borders by isis
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should its engagement in the coalition be interpreted as -- it could not be anything else. and of course today we have seen in the pictures, how the 160 actually have gone through turkey and we will go into syria to help the fighters. quite frankly, i have no idea how this is being seen and interpreted in the west -- the rest of the country. whether or not the turkish public in general is sympathetic to what is going on because people are going to need to be held to, or do they see this as seventh an infringement? have seen things that the
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government is under serious attack. it finally, you have opened by suggesting that people -- the parties, different parties definitions of what terrorism is are different. in that sense, as i said, the turkish government equates the pkk with the islamic state and, indeed, and one. a president even equated that dyp, which is not on turkish terrorists car with them because it is an extension of the pkk. that, i think, is a general way of the turkish public. and that is what the government has to take into account before they can actually reach a common vocabulary with the u.s. administration. one final note. to the extent that the u.s.
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position that is predicting everything that the turkish government says, once more the american air force is bombing a neighboring country or population to the extent that it is seen that way. i really wonder what is happening to the image of the united states, again, in the country, which has not been very positive to begin with. secondly, whether or not this would lead to any change in turkey where there has been a 19-point increase . whether or not this would diminish that recently found love after a long decline. >> thank you very much i
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turn now to discuss saudi arabia, the gulf states. these are not all one block, so we appreciate the extent to which you can disaggregate in the various countries as well as saudi arabia as they like the threat to. >> could morning, ladies and gentlemen. thank you for inviting me to be on the panel. great to be back to washington. the soviet union invasion of afghanistan, the u.s. liberation. that is what you have. the unfinished job has resulted in something, isolation, the isolation
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policy that was adopted was fully supported by iraq. 2003 to another part of al qaeda, independent of my objective is different theories of it did not start today. 2003 was the root. zardari was killed. 2006 we had the announcement . so it was not iraq and syria in 2006. gives us something before we move to 2013, the announcement of isis, as you call it. so, you know, getting back to a little bit of background, not today mcguire the creation of the target. i think depriving, falling
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too much in their hands of iran, handing over, having that massive influence with the sectarian have definitely lead to the situation like what we see today in iraq. also in syria. so many redline, some money from the u.s. who were reluctant. we understand the importance of the chemical issue. at the same time, after all that, the moderate syrian. in saudi arabia are is 2012 when king adelle was elected we took all the time to soften the years she to not to continue and do what he was doing. but after using violence, after the resentment in the resistance was much worse
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after we had a united nations resolution. then the saudi try to push more and interfere more on the issue of supporting the madras syrian opposition. now, remember, there was no serious opposition. always a very strong regime. no one can control everybody , and just a year before that in 2010 and remember there was a delegation visiting washington. so relatively speaking, syria, he took into lebanon. all sorts of relations. but to the point where you start using massive aggression, the u.s. resolution, they said very clearly. i said, i feel sorry that we have not given our condolences. our clear position. now, ever say anything about
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saudi arabia? go back to the literature why is that? because they focus on the iraq in syria, territorial interest, but did the saudi, for instance, have we received any information inside like what happened in jordan in 2005 or syria or lebanon, no? why? because it is a distant second. finally, they will reach and go to the gulf. their operational achievements in this specific facilities there. saudi arabia being accused, i wish somebody would really -- the abbreviation of isis. this is arabic.
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so it is the arabic translation have isis. society and arabia issued to things. if you want to come back to the country, we know how many saudis have been that accuse the government of china to figure out how many salaries went and joined them. listen, go back to the embassy in istanbul, andover yourself. you will have fair treatment. then we issue a sort of, you have 30 days are 60 days if you deliver yourself to the embassy. he will have a fair trial. second, if you really look at isis, there is no will from the saudi arabia. there is participation. but the%, north africa.
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i mean, you have the chinese operation. how come? the team, but not to be part of isis. the chinese have a problem. but the big, bold number came from north africa. and there was no in managing . the soldiers on their feet on the ground. but apparently unlike al qaeda, the target is saudi arabia, a gulf state, move their operation out from saudi arabia to yemen to refinance and get their act together, to be unable to launch whenever they can against saudi arabia. why did we participate in the coalition? think it is an important question. number one, there was no legitimacy.
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it had to take move key to come out clearly saying that -- boat was not part of islam, what they're doing is wrong, in the desert to be fought. so we have something. and the saudi arabian precipitation and admitted to the coalition that for the first time in history you have this huge number of countries acting, working together, fighting a state's tax that was created as a result of an unfinished job, a sectarian government that is taking a side. a political platform. the second point, it was, you know, a big, mysterious story. how come a small group, even
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20 or 30,000 people takeover , we are hearing today is that we need to train, spend billions of dollars before we get into the liberation of the second biggest city in iraq. you know, this is something in the words a lot of us looking at it. but the participation blue, they have to show and participate with that. they have done good things as the region, strong alliances. we both agree in fighting terrorism. if we need to support his coalition by providing aerospace, flyover, basis, some financial contribution, i'm sure the gulf countries would be more than happy to
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enter into this one, but we begin with the list of isis, buffalo and would have part of isis targeted, a lot of the coalition became a part of isis. since they became to innocence they flew in order to kill or dismantle some of the facility, we became wanted to isis. they became the target. this in turn the threat extended from an isolated area in the north part close to that on to the gulf countries as a result of where having to do. where do we stand on our turkish transposition? and think we took the position not to be part of the coalition and be part of sending our boys and girls to die. we will go full-fledged. we appreciate the leader of
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the united states. somebody like me that the new national guard and, and established? as think my worry is simple. we will have the, share, national guard, and if they are equipped, god knows what may happen penny is that a description for separation? the united states is federal proliferous separation will take place based on sectarianism and ethnicity. and will be the future problem that we may anticipate. our turkish friends, i think we agree with them and having no fly zone, having a safe zone for refugees, and straining the syrian, make sure that enough training will be given to the army of
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syria and decent, acceptable opposition to equipment and in hansen and at the same time target the syrian government. it is one of the causes. it is so funny to look at how much of the world is concerned about -- and at the same time, millions of refugees to leave the country was destroyed for many, many years to come but no one wants to get rid of that. they were happy to see some serious engagement. i think today with the new coalition, yes, we have agreed that we have a common threat we need to fight and to go for it. yes, isis does represent the future, not meaning any immediate threat, but is a
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future threat if 86 economic continue, expand, the finance as part of the coalition against them than we become a target. it is important to have the act together into a fight and are common in any. >> thank you. your turn to the interests of this looks from jordan. >> thank-you. that will try to address both aspects, how the title implies there are other priorities. in fact, there are not. fighting terrorism so far is limited to a fighting isis. even what countries of the region and knowledge the problem, there are non military reasons why is
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today's shows strong, let me focus first on europe and its part in the coalition. it is interesting and jordan is a willing participant. the king is made it very clear that this is a cultural war within islam for their real values of islam. as such, jordan will participate full force senate. in not only that, but he actually made clear that his preference would be that it be led by countries and of the region and not the united states. so a very forceful position when it comes to fighting isis militarily. in jordan, even though it is a small country on the military front can actually provide a lot of support in three main areas, logistical support, the coalition is
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already using air bases in the north of the chemistry, intelligence support. the jordanians and a strong intelligence services and have infiltrated al qaeda and isis and continue to do so. at think intelligence support is going to be crucial in this campaign. the third support is going to come in terms of the network of contacts that the jordanians have with this any tribes in iraq in particular. the iraqi prime minister was in jordan, and they arranged for him to meet with tribal suny chiefs in which they pledged support. not all of them, of course, but they pledged support for the effort against isis. so in these fronts jordan can provide a lot of support .
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but does the isis pose a military threat to jordan? at don't think so. i don't think so because, as many innocent before, isis has been successful where it operated in areas that felt marginalized that had grievances with their government in a failed state environment. are you have failed states. they have not yet won a major war in his not one, and that do not think that isis will attack jordan across desert land both in syria and iraq. again, a very strong jordanian army. i do not see that happening. i don't believe it will be the case. but having said that on the
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military front, isis, i think, poses other nonmilitary threats, not just to jordan but the whole region. it is in this area that my concern is not much is being done to address the non military aspects of the situation will permit one, in terms of numbers, in terms of course support, most analysts estimate the core support of the group in jordan to be around 5,000 people. of these about 1500 are already participating. this is a very, you know, of course, a proximate number. he knows what the real number is, but i don't expect in terms of course ideological support in the country i don't think extends beyond 5,000. however, having said that,
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isis is becoming a rallying call against the established you talk to people, and anybody who has grievances cannot anybody, but some people who have grievances against the government cannot justin jordan, is using -- as a rallying point. this is clear to me in many, many aspects just as an act of the my few weeks year we had an incident in downtown amman where vendors are setting up shops and blocking goods -- selling goods and blocking traffic illegally. they attempted to talk to them, offer them alternative places eventually trying to remove them from this to you know, from these illegal places.
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they start shutting isis slogans. it is an issue that has nothing to do with isis. isis is becoming a counterforce to the establishments in many places, and that is worrisome. i talked to a lot of people since i have been back in the country, particularly from the new generation where unemployment in jordan in many countries around the area, over 30 percent among the youth. you talk to them, and they clearly tell you, this is not our war. they do not see it as a cultural war, war for values they see it as an american against a region. if it is an american war against region they're not going to side. that is something that is also worrisome in my view.
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isis has certainly hurt their reform agenda. you talk reform el and many people will tell you that the government, this is not the time. we need to worry about the military threat. we are back to what i call a pre arab uprising where people are focused on one thing and one thing only, security. of course they tend to forget that the end of several was an arab uprising, but nobody seems to be thinking along these lines, and everybody is back to the security malls where what we need to do now is the attack isis militarily, finish them off. plenty of time to worry about the other aspect. and that is something that concerns me. i agree totally that -- needs to be addressed
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militarily, but as many people said, and eason -- even as governments in the region have said, that the reason isis has evolved in such a quick manner is because of the exclusionary policies of some governments in the region. everyone talks about how all maliki excluded the city's from the political game in iraq. everyone talks about how a sought explicit everyone else from the political gain in sixth. fifth is that the people understand that it is conditioned into radical forces such as isis, are they trying to do anything about it? in other words, our governments of the region trying to change course and adopt more inclusion is policies so that you do not reach the results of isis?
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none whatsoever. everyone is in security note, as i said. whereas people understand it and accurately diagnose the problem, nobody is doing or trying to do anything about the solution. that is the real issue, and the real concern in my view of a long term. isis will be defeated militarily. they will not be able to expand beyond, i think, what they have done so far, but that is not the real threat paid the real threat is to leave unaddressed a number of educational, political, and economic policies that have led to the evolution of people like isis. we talk about the educational system that has failed in teaching people about inclusion in diversity and pluralism, respect. is any effort being done in any arab country to have,
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you know, a fresh look at the education policies of these countries? none whatsoever. we talk about the loss of opportunity, economic agenda for people, which is leading many, particularly in the younger generation to flock to isis, not necessarily because they agree with the ideology but because they lack and find a way to address that economic need. are things being done to- spur growth and adopt economic policies that moved zero -- move away from the systems of the plagues the arab world for a long this time? none of that is being done. certainly in the political atmosphere where there are clear examples, cheesy as the latest two days ago, of what in clues his policies can lead to in terms of stability and in terms of
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moving ahead in a rather smooth manner and what excuse his policies can lead to in syria and iraq and egypt and elsewhere, despite the clear record of the last three years or four years of arab uprising, these huge wake-up calls. a first arab uprising, and second the evolution of isis in my view, it has not yet been internalized folly. and the region is still talking about military solutions. to be fair, and neither the region north the u.s. have been good bet on military solutions and the white pleated is easy descent armies to defeat. it is the easiest thing in the world, but it is far more difficult to have a serious look, even over time, and the underlying causes that lead to the evolution of these forces,
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neither arab government or the u.s. have been get this, and i would argue not much has been done anyway in these two areas. let me start here. >> thank-you. i believe somebody wanted to make a brief follow-up remark. >> i almost telegraphic we spoke. i will not abuse your tolerance of me. one, in the previous panel we have four experts. he expected isis to basically break up. whereas they basically said that it would be terrible. and if experts whose daily lives are consumed studying isis, we obviously cannot make up our mind as to exactly what is going on, and that really makes not
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just analysis, but the kind of prognosis that is difficult to come by, particularly with the western world that is in deep crisis and the other two major powers, russia wanting to be a game breaker in china just not willing to do anything positive. number two, the bunny is becoming something much more important than it could ever be, let's say three or four months ago on several counts on the turkish issue it is really my judgment that the turkish government thought it would be a good idea for the forces to actually tear each other down or where each other down. and ultimately, the united states did use airpower in order not to allow the money to fall. that is exactly what it had done when isis started to move. that is, the kurdish region was protected, which kansas
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sense, at least implied if not exclusively said, that from their regions copulations perspective if there is to assign guilt, just what clear american policy because american policy has been anything but clear or consistent, it is we will not let the kurds be beaten up by the forces that surround them. that does not bother me particularly at all, but if this is the perception of an and the question he raises, well, what about 250,000 people who have been killed. remember, it was president obama on the 607th of january 2013 -- of zurich in 2009 he said to newsweek, could someone please explain to me why the lives of 120,000 syrians are more important than the lives of three and a half million congolese who have been killed? and if you start asking those questions to the
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revenue can answer that to. what you do for the kern erred in not the arab. that really complicates diplomacy for all concerned. does not absolves in the end of the original actors, the turkish state included, from their responsibility in the bloody mess that we find ourselves in, but if this is going to be where major issues of the world will be discussed, i really think looking at those from a not strictly american perspective but a larger one. >> i wanted to ask you a follow-up question. i have one for you, but a different. and you have braced to it nicely. first of all, i want to ask whether turkey and let's say saudi arabia, although we can other -- we can ask us
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about other gulf states, are they to supporting in the coalition to the extent they are primarily because they want to use it as a bridge to get the united states and other international powers to address the problem bull have assad in syria? is that the primary strategy ? then i would like to ask you to say something, both of you, but particularly you, abdulaziz sager, from the point of view of saudi arabia up to the point made by marwan muasher up to use grievances. you know, a tremendous use polls in the region even in the wealthy countries like saudi arabia, unemployment, underemployment, lack of match with opportunities in the economy and so forth. to what extent to you think decision makers in saudi arabia and the gulf look at the problem? do they make the connection that are one is making that maybe we need to do something to address u.s. grievances so that they will
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not be susceptible to deliver of groups like isis, like-? >> well, when saudi arabia and listed in the gulf countries supported the coalition, there were other issues. and i think two points were very important. number one, we were hoping that this may lead the u.s. to believe that getting rid of assad or fighting the syrian regime is extremely important, and this will give us something. if not, assad will make a mistake and then at the u.s. would have to respond. unfortunately this, again, the big question is, the coalition air strike achieve its target? yes, it held a little bit in
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containing this trying some of the facility, getting rid of some, but is it going to achieve? at think if i go back to what general patraeus said, the iraqi has a bad history with american. in their whereto sides at that time being heavily involved in trying to find al qaeda. as a result of that no one took care of them. there were left, killed, abused and the families destroyed, and then the results of morality. so this any iraqi do not trust the american or the maliki government. he did not disappear, ages to use a different supposition. and unfortunately there is a very tough job to prove himself awake from the previous policies. look at issues, that's going to sectarian that nation. this is why he tried to send
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a positive signal to the region, particularly saudi arabia. that issue, i think, yes, we do agree that we have problems and issues. we are not the only catcher u.s. and unemployment issue, but one nation, we will have given the political right in reward for the islamic benefit that they have. today they're asking where is the benefit. they want to have housing, jobs. 120,000 saudis. so all these people, when they come back with higher education they want to make sure there is john insurance. again, you go through the analysis, the number of people that went from saudi arabia during isis, the age group, the position, they really have a job. was surprised secede from one family to persons have joined. it means not necessarily
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only the jobs issue in the economic situation, but it is beyond that to see that there is injustice in a defeating have somebody, you know, gave up support, a government that has an isolation policy committee and no, he compounded together perry said this is why, if you want to fight to be assad in iraq, you need to go back to this zuni's, talk to them, give them comfort, show them they will not be isolated, pushed out of the government can have equal opportunity. people in prison will be released from the maliki government that will put their where the iranian influence, the former minister of saudi arabia and the council of foreign relations said, well, the policy and ever, and it goes in place to iran palin 20 to make sure that containment
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in interfering in issues, definitely is that the arabian peninsula position is clear. we do not wish to see a segmented, divided katie perry is ed a similar issue. they would like to see it ruled by an arab people. on the kurdish issue, one further issue, not happy to see germany or other company -- countries eclipsing his murder because they occupy kirk cook which is still the big debates. the arab consider it the parent city. the kurds still think there is a majority kurdish, but they will use this support to make sure, you know, to do it as fast as possible under the cash murder control.
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it has oil, but i think we're playing with fire here when we use islamic interest, you know, a city which is considered to be an arab city given to the kurds i think -- target is not the united states, syria, and iran. >> but there was also, i mean, you know, you blame the united states for having believed that the serious conflict was containable. is obviously metastasized in the region to something far larger. now you're speaking of the islamic state as if it is attainable. >> it can be contained. and as i told you, they
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fought with them. they would look out. and they were appointed in the defense department. >> i mean, i do think there has been quite a number of serious theater isn't a part of american foreign policy making and that protective sheath, but the states of their region have utterly failed to actually come up with any kind of constructive solution to a problem when the united states would not be around. at the end of the day everyone wanted the united states to come and use the air force so that everyone could have an alibi. so without assuming the
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sectarian i do not think that we can get anywhere without engaging the russians, i do not think that we can get anywhere. if we could face those realities and move on i think we would be better off >> you were talking the rest of the region in terms of camino, the democratic process moving forward there as opposed to the rest of the region and so forth, but there was as interesting article about the large number recruits to isis from 200. i am talking about actions, repression, following terrorist attacks. so how do you take this a part? and me, inclusion is important, youth engagement
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is important, but it is a complicated matter. and we see that this country, even with its promising young democracy has still have a problem of radicalization of use. could you address that? >> i mean, what is happening internees' it does not suggest that they are perfect, audio, fully functioning. they have real problems and we will continue to have real problems for a while. i'm not sure i can explain why one and they have these laws numbers of fighters. as i know, they tell me that after the revolution a lot of people were released from prison somewhere to legitimate political prisoners, others were just -- what i keep referring to
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tony's year is because i think the arab world today should be engaged in a war of values, not a war between secular and religious elements, that the war between -- it is a war of values, and in that respect to these has shown the arab world. but it has shown the arab world that is law and democracy can coexist, democracy does work in the arab world, that performance now is starting to trump ideology. traditional wisdom was that people, you know, vote according to an ideology either because they are islamists or afghan. one very important, i think a result from the attorneys in election is that all three parties lost in the last election.
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another went down from 38% to about 20%. went down to 01 and a half percent. and that party never even show up in the results. what is that telling you? people want the results. and if people, you know, do not see any results, they're not going to cut the vote blindly just because of some islamist party or because it is a party 85 and two is the party that has what? a new party, not necessarily one led by an 86 year-old man formed only two years after the revolution. and it was able to succeed and be the largest islamic organized party in the country. the message is clear. from now on performance is going to trump ideology. this is a war of values that
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need to be fought in the air borland is not. we have very few countries, if any that understand that their real battle is won for pluralism and inclusion and not a battle between secular elements. >> thank you. we will open now to questions from the audience. please put up your hands and let us know who you are. >> yes. so following at, there has been a crackdown on a lot of the, perhaps, a legitimate political islam, whether it is the brother and agent or islamic groups elsewhere as part of this whole crackdown and all of these other kind of groups. i am wondering.
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can you tell us where you see these legitimate political is lobbying groups going during this time? talking about how they have had this test they really have not been able to test anywhere else in the arab world. >> thank you. we will take a couple of other questions of the same time. >> i am dr. caroline. i am an inner -- imager at this. my question is for the gentleman from turkey. why are the turks so concerned about assad? from a big country, part of nato, relatively wealthy.
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and if assad was to be replaced now it would probably be by isis, the most powerful other force in the country. >> one more right here. right there. yes. thank you. >> thank you issues that are vital. my question is about another point you briefly mentioned about how this is america's war and one of the reasons the coalition has to be successful is important. given the historic tensions and how different stakeholders are looking at different gains in their region, is there any common ground for the coalition to function on?
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>> okay. let's start with the first question. let's start with you, abdulaziz sager, and the question of political islamists, particularly the brotherhood. the other speakers may like to comment on this as well. >> she does a great job reporting. receiving is in arabic. political islam. a great interest in many countries. should we treat them equal? i am not so sure. the key issue is those who use silence as a means of achieving a political gain is who we should be against. but there is another example . participating.
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and they were part of the region. i think egypt was the biggest concern because egypt command least from the gulf perspective point of view in the majority of the country's so that a country like egypt, resources, military, power, very idealistic, using ideologic -- as a means, that was being perceived from our part of the world. should we treat everyone equal? i think i will go back. as a means, we should fight it. we should not allow a seamless group. any sort of believe you have, it should be all right this has led as to the deletion. the whole issue. this is a key issue.
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basically decided that particularly is on his winning. they will be in power. the operation, 7-2, 100 years. i think they can judge that to. somehow until today there reason why we don't have an ambassador from this is because still the for unpopular position in support of the muslim brotherhood and away have a seat in the way how policy between them and turkey in support of those groups. come again from our perspective, as i said to me it is being viewed differently. ..


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