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tv   Key Capitol Hill Hearings  CSPAN  December 24, 2014 12:30pm-2:31pm EST

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becoming more efficient in redoing renewable return on investment innovate they're still managing their own risk. not just financially but their own personal freedom. i think that's important when we look at, we saw in mid-2000 as the evolution goes more and more, customer service is baked into online forums and defending a day online, that's a measure to help a bad guy minimize their exposure. i think as you start to see the shift in deploying in the u.s. or north america, that is a model that's going to start to minimize the risk for a bad actor, right, because you look at ach transfers but why do i hack into your home pc or computer just do your credentials so i can wire money. by moving money from bank to bank or account to account, that minimizes the reason for me to be on the street exposing risk or creating this for myself as an actor. i think as we are looking at the business models we are to also look at the infrastructure that
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supports them but also how are they going to get access to the money that they are making for themselves, and where the points of exposure for them and focus on that part of it. just as much as we're looking at security architecture, how we want to do network defense or intel-based security, whatever it may be, looking at where the risk points for the person doing the crime i think is also an important part of the ecosystem as we have this conversation. as soon as we employ emv card chip and p.i.n., the card present fraud will start diminished but fraud will go up dramatically. they are constant look of the business model associate with that but also looking at how do ied detection, how do i debate my own personal risk of being apprehended through that process. and i think including it in the conversation is very important. >> i think that's what ransomware is the next
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innovation for cybercrime operations because it doesn't have to be credit card involved in the attack. and as the u.s. moves to chip and p.i.n., it's just chip and signature, right? by the way we're with you and everybody else on the planet unedited credit cards but it's one of the reasons credit card theft is easier. as soon as would get to chip and signature it would be better but ransomware is the next thing that comes and that's way more, that will touch you hard. the consumer is going to get that, feel it, see a lot more complaints about that. right now i think credit card fraud, banks cover that for the consumer. it's kind of scary when you get older credit card has been hacked and you get a new one in the mail but it doesn't impact you financially that much. wait until they start poking you about $20 a month because your car won't start. that's going to be real painful. >> i'm wondering if my car really knows anything interesting about me. >> that when your car becomes your computer, i think that's where we're headed.
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>> first of all, it's probably a good not to do too much computing in your car because it's still in driving mode. i don't know, google may change of force but it could be a while. let's talk for a minute. what does your car know about you? your car may know in fact we've got to get gps in your car, right? but we are moving into a world in which the government knows where you are because there's so many sensors out there reading license plates. you had talked about what if the criminal could get into your car and make it stop? what are the possibilities for law enforcement to get into your car and make it stop? for law enforcement to get a subpoena, to test led to look, there's a bad guy driving a tussle and i want this guy apprehended, okay? >> issues you how much crime pays if you're driving a tesla. [laughter] spent sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. but i mean when you start talking about smart devices you are not talking about victims and criminals anymore. you're talking about victims,
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criminals and the governed. it's the interplay among those three which has the potential to be very, very interesting. and maybe i will keep my honda for a few more years. >> i think were going hear a lot more about how the law is going to have to change in order to strike the right balance when we talk about the governments being able to do with these new technologies, and take advantage of the evidence that's created by them when it's appropriate to do so. but for us with a focus on the technology, we heard a lot about payment systems. i had bitcoin and heard about credit cards. sub want to follow up on payment systems. so i guess i'll ask rick. is the credit card with a magnetic strip going to exist in 2020? >> and no, i don't think so. i think and you as we move into chip and signature. of course, the we some holdover but the industry's move to something more substantial so don't think that will have an avid anymore.
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does anybody disagrees because i think that's the path. i think it's going to take a while for a company the geese again with the technology and fine tune the technology but i think you are seeing in some countries that are removed to chip and p.i.n. that it' it stil has companies are doing business in that model, are still struggling with how do i secure my network, how do i configure my network so fraud occurs and while some of those gaps and things have been convicted still exists. but over time that will start to diminish. >> anybody doing international travel, you go there with your american credit card and to go to france or europe and give it to a vendor and a look at you, what is this piece of been? i don't even want to use a. please leave my store because it is so far behind the european credit card system. >> and you have to get into mobile payments but at one point is this all going to be in a mobile device? you see that parking here today, right? >> so credit card fraud is going to get more difficult. i think that's what i'm hearing.
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where are the criminals going to go? >> when you talk about their business oratins fo a second, they absolutely need a way to do anonymous money transfer capability. absolutely have to have that. they have it now with bitcoin and other kinds of operations. i don't even know what the answer from law enforcement is, how do you track that kind of thing? you have an idea of how we follow that? >> there's been successes in law-enforcement over the years in going back, or you had, there's been successes and falls back on banking regulations and the lack thereof from what the company was doing. i think that it's called. you have a lot more current knowledge but at the end of the day, you're right. they have to find a way, after a mechanism to receive the benefits of their efforts. and i think over time they're going to find a way to do that.
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there may be and is enclosed in their model by think they've already started that shift with the ach transfer stuff, a lot of the bank money movement stuff but i think that's not going away. and, in fact, from i think at least from a financially motivated attacker, from a network of this perspective it becomes harder to decide which was which because they're leveraging their own credentials to do both. so it was the actual actor that is targeting you becomes a very important part of like making decisions. and so i think they have already made that shift into we need to minimize our risk on the street, we need to find ways to move money. i think their infrastructures are in place, but it changes as law enforcement has exist as a revelatory landscape changes. but they pay attention to it and not the same debate about online amongst themselves that we're having here today. i mean if there's no doubt that they outlive that. so i think they've made good
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progress in setting themselves up for the future, unfortunate unfortunately. >> andy, just for those who don't know eagle, can you just briefly explain what you refer to? >> sure, it was a digital currency where it was bound i think to the gold, and so it basically created an environment where you could move money and it had a real value in digital form. so it didn't have a know your customer procedure from a banking regulatory perspective. so that was a way for us, and we could prove, at least law enforcement could prove that the percentage o of transactions tht went through there was predominantly used by fraudulent activity. >> i think we are seeing that credit card fraud is slowly on its way around and other things will come. i think we are saying, i'm interested to but everybody thinks, it's really consumer personal information that's the valley we are worried about.
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is that to? isn't more than just credit card information? feature name, where you live, sal so security number, medical history. is that more valuable than just credit card information? >> that's really tough, tough to monetize. >> it's sensitive come it's personal, but until there's like a good motivation path i don't think it will be a threat. or what we do know is criminals will find a modification path before want them to. >> you brought up something interesting about a social security number. five, 10 years ago perhaps until today the notion that everybody knows my sources could be numbered is there for me, okay? has been a standard in the world of finance. and it's an absurd idea given how may times we had to give a social security number, how many poorly protected systems it sits on. maybe the problem isn't the data. maybe the problem is the level
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of authentication we give data, the possession updated when we shouldn't. maybe the problem is in the transaction. >> good enough spent if you look at the date of breach report to reproduce, laughter we looked at just over 63,000 security incidents, just over 1300 data breaches from a 50 participants in 95 countries. and i think when you look at it consistently year over year, two factors become a major issue. if most folks, i think 90 plus percent of all things we see would be resolved by leveraging. >> which is getting easier with the new communications. much easier. >> so we've now reached 2020, and i want to talk about what cybercrime looks like in 2020. so dino, what does it take to be a crop -- a cybercrime and 2020
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what do we need a computer science degree to? >> either that or any accredited cybercrime university. but one thing that's different shaded cybercrime from a lot of other fields is a lot of the skills can be learned in the underground and can be learned just through those networks. and so computer science degrees have and the necessary. i've seen a drop in the technology field a lot, there's a lot of self-taught people that have been able to do everything they need. but i don't think criminals will made computer science degrees because the level of sophistication has traditionally been more opportunistic than specialists. so former i said, you know, doing network tester clients and things like that in my career, those practitioners and security fields generally used methods more sophisticated than we've seen in cybercrime used. so i have kind of watched as
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they have caught up, and we can feel like we've been warning everybody because we have been able to get in and we always get them. someone else is going to eventually, too. i think that's going to be a constant. cybercriminals can just use -- there would be different targets, unexpected targets, and i think that's what a quote-unquote innovation will come from. they do not have to monetize information we start collecting. kind of take a step back to what rick was saying about other information that we have. we now have our smart phones collectincollectin g our health information. we have been collecting our, like my phone now clicks my footsteps. tells me how missteps i want in a day. i don't think his way to monetize this, but -- >> i definitely want that. >> i was handed to you freely. >> for 1 dollar. >> data comes to be. as we so effective devices we will collect more and more data. some manufacturers will put all that data in the cloud and and
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data in aggregate always have more value than data that is disbursed to the endpoint. because collecting data is a lot more labor intensive so it has to be a lot more valuable to make it worth the effort to attack each point individually. that's what i think we are going to see play out, like what information that could be monetize will be aggregated and those will become the new targ target. >> the question of what we think about 2020, even though they're cybercrime all over the world, double of the practitioners seem to be in eastern europe. there's good reason for that but i would like to throw out to this group is that we're still going to be? it's in eastern europe and lots of reasons because of legal reasons that they can have operate their freely. it's also because there's a lot of really smart people in the day of the world who are trained as some of the best universities in the world and didn't really have a job to go to so they can have migrated to this is a way of making a living. but does it state in eastern
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europe, i'm not sure. >> i think, you know, with our russian speaking infrastructure were describing, they've embraced a discipline to their craft, right? and i don't think that discipline has permeated its way around the world. and i think, but the article look at latin america, brazil, as a very early a doctor of technology, especially in banking and finance, and especially mobility, and they are starting to deal with threats before we are. so they have a talent pool that's dealing with young, smart code writers the art our exposure to technology in their everyday life that in america we don't deal with yet. something that's going to continue to go deep into what technologies are being embraced around the world, but i think from a discipline standpoint, the russian speaking criminal,
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the way they have architected or permeated that discipline across the culture in the underground makes it harder to access unless they want you to access it, and i think the mindset hasn't permeated itself around the world yet. it will remain -- think they'll continue to thrive and to think what wa would interesting as we look at it is i have no doubt that they are looking at the r&d of the future and looking at where do we need to be down the road. ..
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very quickly. we see that in the e-mail service provider industry being attacked years ago. we saw phishing and spam increase immediately so it's having the infrastructure to permeate the crimes you want to commit and you know you will be able to monetize quickly and i don't think that other groups are as organized as the bad guys we deal with. >> my question is on the global economic shift. it's partially network effect and also the internet is making everyone a target globally seem to target someone around the world.
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the reason silicon valley works is they know that the investors and the talent, so they have a similar business network there and if that is a draw although criminal and there is a rich technology industry nearby for people with those interests even at lower pay will be a stronger draw than the criminal underworld. >> about six months ago. vladimir putin did this by saying this is a great victory for cybersecurity or putting up a list the list of countries they should travel to as long as he is in charge or as long as
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that attitude is in charge of russia and other countries it's good to make it hard. >> is russia trying to see themselves as part of the west that has many ramifications and this being one of them. in brazil, which as you point out has a lot of talented actors that they the basic installs as cooperating with the west, which i think they do now but in 2020, a lot of weird things can take place. so, one thing that we have talked about of it is what crimes are going to be driven three large degree what i'm hearing is by the financial motivation. and we talk about the difficulty of monetizing certain types of crime. so, martin, i wonder what the researchers showing about what
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happened so far about what type of crime we might expect going into the future. >> will, i agree i think it is going to become larger. when you realize that it is one half of all of the computers in this world it is no wonder that so little of that type of crime has taken place. we are seeing the trend towards breaking out of computers and their friends in iran and north korea seem to be enjoying this quite a bit. and this is one of the things that isn't an. it's one of those false crimes. part of the problem of forecasting is is to trick to figure out what innovations will take place in terms of the monetizing information. there was a report of a bunch of hackers that have gone after the
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drug companies bought for information about how to build drugs which was very well put and protected to try to broadcast the stock market because the success of drug facilitated with the prices into the firms and they may be looking for information in the acquisition as a big one but i'm sure that it is much larger. i predict the next five years, someone will come up with an interesting way of monetizing information that none of us on the panel had a clue about. i just don't know what it is. >> i also think that we need to talk about innovation and where we are predicting it could be but let's talk about what that option really will be. it will be interesting to see how fast technology will be
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adopting everyday life that may make it more valuable than what is currently out of their. so how fast will these innovations become mainstream to the point where the return of the on the risk and investment of the projector coming and i think when we talk heavily about the financially motivated attacks, but for the prosecuting cases, you are looking at the intended motivation in financial loss. so, whether it is stealing pants credit card data or some sort of structure and come at a company has to put a dollar amount to the theater that has been destroyed. so, as we look at the evolution of cybercrime i would say from the private industry perspective, we need to start thinking about how can we articulate the impact to us in our business and started being able to put a dollar figures are estimates that because it is
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easy to say while the credit card is worth $500 but how much was the property was destroyed data will be the currency going forward into so we are not going to necessarily see the currency but it's nothing to be the credit card data to monetize the data so what does that elicit a dollar figure show that you need to put 28 to say i'm a victim of crime. we know that he intended to steal the date of how much was that worth to you. this indicates to cause the victim pain or the service attacks are adopting the data to the public data that would be the private e-mails and things and as crypto where to did the
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tool belt and i cannot walk up the data. >> it is almost time to turn it over to the audience but before i do that i would like to give everybody the chance that we think may have been able to be prepared for 2020. >> symposiums like this are some of the most important things we can do. if you have this conversation with your family my mother and i thinks -- mother-in-law thinks i'm an idiot so we have to make these conversations easier to understand for the normal person who doesn't think that they are interesting.
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so, having these conversations is a very important thing to do so i hope you can continue to do that. >> i would say keep your eye on the attack being demonstrated as a part of research today because the attack they attack the distance triggered by the researcher and saying this is a risk that those that often five or ten years after and there is an earlier transit like in my treaty a lot of people who just attack others because everyone knows how to do these things and those are the attacks that just happen to us and have been to celebrities. so then there is a kind of pipeline trend already and that is where we personally like to see what's going to happen. >> i agree continuing the
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awareness and getting people to help demystify the problem and using tools disposable to make sure that not only as consumers are we informed about the technology that we use, but as business owners and business leaders we can measure risks and understand the world around us and how does the world of cyber apply to us because i think it's nice to talk about where the world will be and look at everything on the global scale but at the end of the day we have to focus and look at how does it impact the media and so having the education to inform the consumer but the executive business decisions and the lawmakers are taking very complex problems and having a platform to make the education possible for the masses can consume.
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it's a southern personality. let's say that we had this ten or 15 years ago and pointed out correctly that on average we have a one in 50 chance of ending their life as a result of a car accident and then you pose the question what should we do. we have a lot of interesting ideas on how to drive. now that forward to today and the chances of ending your life as a result of a car accident or four times lower. roughly one in 200. okay. is that because we were four times their drivers? the answer is no. seat belts come interstate highways. it's a lot of different things. we solved the traffic accident problem not through personal action, although personal action is important, we solved it systematically. and by the way, we solved it by passing regulations. some of them were happy
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accidents in the highway system or the only happy accidents in the vietnam war. but regardless, we we saw this systemically. solved it systematically. i have a colleague of mine who basically says don't blame my mother for the internet. if we build a system where the has to be constantly aware and as sophisticated as we think we are here, you're not going to get there. you have to build a system that is made for average people so that average people can get online and do average things and not worry so much as they do now. trying to put this on the consumer is just not going to work. >> probably have ended up they haven't been able to solve, it was mandate seatbelts and airbags and things like that. and the law makers can't keep ahead of the internet because it changes so fast. it's not going to affect the problem that we have tomorrow. so we haven't come up for a good
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solution on that. we would want to consumer products to better protect the end user and if we can find a way to make that enticing that would be the way to do it. >> sometimes it happens the second order coming off making the consumer is liable for the fraudulent charges on their credit cards and we now shift that burden onto the financial system and then it is in their financial interest to solve the problem. >> we have reached the point we want to invite the audience to come up and talk with the panel. we do have microphone sounded in the audience and we would ask that you queue up at the microphones so that everybody can hear the questions. so, i'm sure we've already got the first one. >> so, to put this on a complete example, the sony hack probably the biggest thing in his right now it is a little bit different ucd information has been the
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doubt and what can we learn and how much do you subscribe to this idea that it could be retribution in north korea? >> i'm guessing nobody here has personal experience and you're not going to speak directly to that with large data holders are facing on the internet today and the threat they may be extorted or otherwise. >> one of the things you did is send a message on a lot of employee computer screens. its innovative on how they did it. and i will address to be think it is the north koreans.
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we want to blame some higher power to blame russia and north korea and it may be true it's just speculation at this point. they are so powerful there is no way to defend against those guys when you talk to everyone to a man and woman admits they haven't really configured the device they bought last year for a gazillion dollars correctly to do what we thought it should do in the first place. they haven't spent the time to do that. i believe that we could be much better at this. there will always be a way to get in the need to make there when you can make it harder for them to get in. >> i think that with the private
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data being released in the sony breach and that they had the data accessible but in my experience, that is different from any company of that size and we just don't have the tools to protect the data on the large corporate network if someone wants to get in and deliver the hurt they did, they could do similar things to any other company. >> i want to ask a follow-up. i have seen some criticism that perhaps there were some weak passwords being used in the data breach. are we still going to be using passwords in 2020, is a realistic security mechanism to keep us safe? spinnaker think we are still using passwords by 2020. i don't see them going away. >> i like to think that it would have a greater shift towards something different i think it is still going to be used.
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>> and what do you mean by that? >> we spend a lot of time, but we all have mobile devices and everybody has a cell phone sitting there. being able to leverage the data to do the analytics and i think one of the things interesting about what we are talking about in this space is the amount of data that is good to be created but i also think to some extent it is a big data solution that helps solve the problem. the more that is being generated to do that can be stolen can also be leveraged to the analytics to protect us. so i think it is important. it could be for providing fraud and authentication purposes. >> we make it so hard to do these kind of things. how many people are using facebook, how many of you, a couple of you.
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it's hard. you have to rely on the people that make it easy for us to be more secure. >> another example, we pushed that effort onto the consumer where we could use things like the big analytics machine learning to identify the patterns to say you don't usually log in from south korea at three in the morning. that seems kind of weird. why don't we ask you for the factor now and every other time because you are logging in. >> i think the judge would appreciate your economic analysis to solving the situation. but, going back to something that you said earlier with
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regards to sometimes law is political. what free speech here isn't necessarily in europe. but theft is theft at least with tangible devices to escape the persecution but now we can just start on those countries. what can the state department and what can the department of justice and what can our u.s. infrastructure due to kind of leverage and push these countries into extraditing the criminals? >> i'm going to start off with theft is theft because there is such a thing as copyright. if i violated the copyright and is made in 1920, i have it
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because the stretch of the wall reflects the politics of the copyright that wasn't the question you asked. the question you asked is not to put a finer point on it totally put pressure on them to stop stealing intellectual property? i find it ironic that people that spent the most time spend the most time complaining about the chinese and the department of defense when you go to the department of the treasury they pay lipservice to that they but they are more interested in telling the chinese treasury bills. we have a very conflicted relationship with china and we have to make the choice where we put that kind of pressure in everything else and i was a little surprised that when it was at the summit in may of 2013, that was number one. there was news that is going to be number one at the most recent but then they ended up with an environmental deal which probably wasn't a bad allocation
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of resources. but let me at the risk of being wrong which is a risk that i take every day they have the interest in the intellectual property that we thought they did. i'm sure that one of you will do this for the correction but when i took a look at the department of justice listing what the chinese have taken almost all of it perhaps 100% depending on the interpretation of the business proprietary data relatively short-term information that they could use either in a political, legal or business negotiation for the people they took from. the ad of stuff that could be clearly intellectual property wasn't very high on the list and i asked myself why that was so and there were three answers. one it is a political artifact. there were the companies in
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western pennsylvania which in all deference to my friends from there isn't the most innovative part in the united states so they didn't have a lot of innovation to steal. another possibility is they stole it and the department of justice didn't really want to talk about it. i have no way of knowing if that is true. the other possibilities if the possibility is that the chinese have stolen so much intellectual property aid on what to do with with, that isn't what they are interested in anymore. that is an n. period question. those are the questions we have to think through before we make a political issue in the chinese and put other things that risk and it might be a good idea or bad idea that we have to think it through. >> i think that they will disagree with you later today. i do think that these are interesting questions that could be a whole symposium of their own and i do think that there are several. i want to focus on the criminal threats that we are facing instead of more generally on the geopolitical environment.
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so, if we can go ahead and move onto the next question. >> we were talking about corruption in the world and should we care about that. the u.s. has a mixed review on that and we think stealing is bad but then we separate the countries with monetary gifts if they like what they are doing so should that be even a thing that we talked about? you said theft is theft. what incentives can we give the country to bring it closer to what we think it should be in the world and that is a big question. >> what is interesting on the geopolitical landscape at the end of the day it is a human aspect. if i if i'm a citizen in the country and i want to travel, i'm going to travel. i will unless the government prohibits me from doing so. if we look at the actions the
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law-enforcement in the united states built around the world and myself having been fortunate enough to play that role for the government had was building those relationships globally with international law-enforcement not only to learn from them but to also and power than and work together and we saw cooperation and it's why you see more arrests happening around the world with the frequency and i think what gets lost is that it's actually happening. it may not be changing in another country but the other tactical mission is moving forward. you're seeing more from the cyber criminals than you ever have before. i think what gets lost in translation sometimes is that we as a general public don't understand the impact that those have. if we have arrested those people somewhere in the world, who they
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were in that ecosystem the ecosystem of the cybercrime and the impact in the underground and evolution of where things have evolved like i said before i can map of specific actions and arrests to the changes so the efforts that are being taken with international law enforcement is definitely growing and impactful and it's having a lot of impact i think people don't often realize. >> what you think the industry will recognize that they have to be capable of protecting the data? the learned genesis was sharing and you can have sharing without criminals exploiting and we've built this entire system on that foundation which is crumbling. j.p. morgan chase in the data
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security but they were hacked. when will the industry focused not so much trying to protect to build a castle big enough, tall enough or strong enough to keep the defensive data when we focus on how it is in the business and to give you a quick example he will probably be up sometime after 2020. one solution, there was not a lack of people going into this at the time it was over in wifi, payment data at the entrance and was down so what do we have? we have now where and every other advised of the season after target, home depot knew about this and was in the papers. they were hacked from april to august.
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so now the wireless company you don't need to factor the authentication. we've seen this week moved from one to another. in the '90s, they went ahead and wanted the government to prosecute. that didn't do it so they built a system that recognized. if my phone is uniquely protected better than me why can't the industry protect me ask >> you will start to see it first in small pieces and then a laret sotolo orthr tolyomni arthtenogyomni th a oinnotoolct t da. e ithe pceioof trwok th'wat neizitndheth he rtectit. thexlehacos md pp p mpedt
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dorieow a weo fwa >>haisacaroong g >> the way to approach these questions is trying to figure out what is a sensible response and is it blocked by controlling the press especially when you are dealing with such a rapidly changing area i think looking at the case was unhelpful. so, i start with first you don't really get anything out of the fourth amendment. all it says is that the search and seizure should be
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reasonable. no one will quarrel with that. there is nothing to suggest that they are not required. the fourth amendment doesn't really do anything for you. and as i said, i don't want to look at the cases, i want to look at the problem and see what the solution is. one thing that strikes me, i don't think that there should be the large role for the courts in dealing with the problem of surveillance. that is the largest area. the reason i don't think that is in the original constitutional case coming you have some doing something that's very unpopular. the minority often some extreme
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ideas and then the function of the constitutional right is to protect these people from the majority, from the state legislatures and congress put in the case of surveillance, you really have a very good balance that allows this to be dealt with by the political process because everybody values privacy that everybody is also very concerned about the national security and crime and cyber harassment and so on. so if you have this kind of balance where people care about both sides in the arguments for surveillance and arguments of limiting surveillance, i don't see why the courts have to get significantly involved. to the point that justice alito made in the case, when you have
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the rapidly changing technology, there is a lot to be said for leaving it to the legislature to deal to this because the level of the knowledge among the judges is very low. there are exceptions like the judge but it's very low. if you look at the supreme court for example, there are none of the nine justices have any kind of a technological background. they are all humanity majors and college. they don't know anything about technology. so, i don't think that they should be taking an active role and really that's my take on these issues. i do want to add one thing. i think that the privacy is
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actually overvalued. and the reason if you think about it there are some forms of privacy that are entirely proper and trying to keep your passwords and/or social security number and all that secret, that's protecting yourelf in n entirely different way. but much of what passes for the name of privacy is just trying to conceal the parts of the conduct. so privacy is mainly about trying to improve your social and business opportunities by concealing the sorts of bad activities that would cause other people not to want to deal
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with him on the social plane or business plan. so i don't know why that kind of -- that kind of privacy would object to having some protection for it but i don't see how it can outweigh the national security concerns, for example very serious criminal activity. and i think we glamorize privacy and we are not real lists because that's not what it's really about it's trying to make you look better than you are. i also think that privacy interests should have little in the way when you're talking about national security because the world is an extremely turbulent state, very dangerous and i think national security
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e t' rctn twas ouy hat, but yar't al ae pnto a dat harov ha i's bee a prleanyoreakg is guntorheir te thsum cou ich isin ecse eow peat cotsadotonin t yetdeig omthinhey reryg l o picay t crtnd ove emheinfoti a heur id at'sotng atweedog, yn' ha areblca oth. th s mthweadpp in ot wiencypon ecol sinat war t enoi tep eey sohaon y g this sff crte warnogog tbe ab the t geren g thh an at is a tenogil velme tt sn ailleo goeren toppnto heou oor e ur toodeheit dede . ismit t he dean ffen tthcot,ut dohi tt ltres
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prleth wha ahe tenogys isnt pfogngheocin tt veeelaiout tcots d couts he giveve lileho buo dece coreteces, thy cancnt nongssnteveng t n'sath ia rdprle anwereotoi tdede on a a thehthg i llayiha i's obly t e be pce at st nd isproby cser muthbale pricy ou be on encent chqu. enfrospeakingfra iglyiffere sntn e luofivy atasee eidtoay asath fouth
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ement testani in caberad ckistrial. dthi caideee praciserps prcoitn r eed, lic fem, arst frdom, eronalauny. tit' kiofknthe tu othdecricsyem atoueethn r or the ba flurhi didu lfe atheaim he vnme do he rytrg test pte ppl agastcme antonse at opre fe esearericy lae d ybthleslur c da odob ith emthe, ty e ouab, eyangaer foatn aifre w th cots. bu a hemeimtyay no nesri b aenve someof thndlyg lu th a pt t constituiol hite. th iwh i tnkth ur argog ctie he stgg wi thiwh peap nofu adeateoout
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olngth dori o sp e. >>thk u. vejoesthhems prac oki spcay a trpa a t mory at u ten icthjstce ato usce somor lk authaintenology dow thentown an tn e n yr he isth ce er oe ai yohaci as gun, t steen kn inerosssn, wch i joed by usce somaornd jti gsbg yshatthi hkeack t iro anhe you hehe pivuner ta test d th yo hveril. aninhebrercase, e chf ste bes tuly regnesha de cases tuly dier dquitiv an aliti ssefm dfet bjts n aes gh cayi ahacod
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imice ivy ncnsar yo tse impcad oer jes. didouotinthe naonhe ttl o ur per t o pre ur desi tt c cbre in hatnosech tht waan qrkocd ine 2tcetu. i'smi ttou re wh the cotsou'spionca yosaa t reboht, anow fth we i sasfng y cen atou heaeoucout akinthfothmeme ansoucth y sd that inern gehe fothmeme ivelie. >> thefit inth i nt s ith it reay unirosk miael t k abt ts. bu i nk tat tis ithe nuerne thgecae 's e t bt advat tt isaton hnumber cae chepseinth vemed t ba guys are etcoend soweha
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betain aut t seanitnk tefa th lthose es- ink oe wllbuit does ugst at the crt unrsan tt cannt sipl ply9thcenry ctneo 21 tu probms atwe ee austoforh ul i thrf thoe ases i esncthgornnt arme shes dierce sly the d alan i t t veme wqui conin ecse w rdom upitaoodu tgo thdit e of hgy.
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ndl teeousaino w arnojugoi toaplh olrusfo tisituio a yoe aheldayou casechny contnewh yoarst psoonprab us anll phesnd sarhos arrely erll it ndtiuiabil is iset a se'stcerotsas tainabt h s le ygthaa hsndgg ri imateiay ndtiuiabom ocet ipohe n. d errelys a alate ffenc d w hae keccntfhat difrece so am eougebyhefa thherts sn fto
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vdote iohe21 ceurani inth w ve the ntea t ruis a ndf ase. whe isa hid-rt diloreul aulth wh y srenfmaonith tprt youhverfte your vad y c get om trrtd i n' heto hae anwa obleau oreono sptyouanheef i t oniandou it nstnybdy yan t ain t sre ur juicanet at ift dveled in gas t fornt a aia uyeihimha th enaginlicctit anthuraii nkit
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reonlyheyota t medynd you tem tat ouavcoitd cmeyo su thrtanatern mit go ttheopsrhcops mit t pennd eriso cstinonha peon buthprleisn das rlwehrewithi paieve deaiof o er e. so mageif thecotr outhehat eqre pp toelth rnmenn omnt en24bas er e, watty e ang w th a wit w th atalk tnd wha ey ierte in wha tey tnng abot. we wod syththa i denionf have talaanm woulay weerin d'tantoiv
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inhacouny. ll wedo l inh couny d thonl ffens we vunri sha l at nfmation wiinrn rve pvides,eda omnianet a atmenstheisno nitialimn t rnntf tfoma oheir miithout anyas andt tnnsp e posily a ndf agt seilae atyo ee sa egaging i nd dve a bvene rlanweavwalkednt itthgoerme h not imsed up ,eil aowtecolicadvce
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ndriacke egh tck ayr,meinth w on h tt d t i wou keto tkab thdi party treantal toou st ntbo th tseifouee i av othoi. t fo wdoh, wold keo skbo thnogy e te yo ad pont ishaator aonpot adoril d e we tliimontr montin ererd to echloes ate rrtlardein t >>ig qut. t e y to gt th merl ew coisnt wi wt u veea oth neso,niiall th is aimofpid chnoloca chge h y secifar o tehnywhe cts suld b dentl he
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lial ce b th te e seou hath wn ty veec bsetepealpea ur ttryo ge i qckchangg hno. eyeg stizendt thpinhe mebl t st iansath is i thes lae t fot enenshld ly e am tt vel alts taleduthehe isefshg e un oth fothmeme oadst heoan thth th adymith pps d s happedn th adnt la fm binin d memeitavs e veme a setest avsthe dens itusdendon e c ad it rlla -w str anit tckfocourts t kw wen th bme f e t tewhth chlo h bized.
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lledftwas. i thk athaishein gae angg dam th w uch d tdeic ae isri e. d in sincs inlvg eo egh and hat ch rerd eli. d ivitabli ink th th i elyimrand abiti ntd bvus isobode sen tenogy csttl adncg,utndidl apiciorconlies wi tabi. d itnt prme crt ulst inow t at atou beur enent ottininstore eai a conten o emls. ma i biclyheam hs en fcas,he chlo, e sinoonof connttramied d stod
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oe pa of the nareof counatnsetrkndha isnehe ihi is et stbl >ok, as h rit ac wh autatanda mig? da datni brd ic i saeehd' sueson i tkhaits real th b st ter ofat ou d clrl havuch morof mada t te, ind tnkth a peod wch th i lisli preconndoticl otti. isvoln ancgup thheonarru tng that matisprecd se ntt,t'acal que hadr udgtodo beus ohe tu o em t er is channgo raidy. somy aroh ulbe th qutis humanth la
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fothtiein, e the naref wl an meis h shld addesd. but nk irm f t erl lae,ts rnt as ink b, we dot ntheveme he touc perwe n' wt em tsay t erin-- tt cnteis rt oit anwecnn eotr dictn a mada precdnde the wara reiren ihik at cld ket o a. we ae sengherac otti tt wavehichs chearh oflie or a tonne rlanthe pctal sd i t balce th ysalor sik tt me ine ot pteednd thfoth enen trngo maiaith ban ertind fm my me i reirl o gresina tinhesili o juci aiolar o jpi in oncongreiol
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ti f jt send the ts pnt aio su wt rlth w ve i byo tan coreiol ti wh ihis whe ceson aois not ppin a oue oexaplesth a eeachih wld he rene in meftheost exemctis an wld he imov e pess byhh foig illen gnted it waare b aat pais morit i the hose itwasvod gnifict paisajitinthe senat tasgrd y he am aisttion. u wou tnkha tt ul beaw t marity i bh hoes re tbyhe esint. d tasstl fibuer a con' t e oteqretoge roh eenae.
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annther me s havea stutth dlsite-il buit ws sed e90s d eygres dilo exncont e meayg atr-ma ss an xonsld witrtt like aho nvsaonn icyoha tge arnt, astsmorth sons ol yodo'th tge wra of problcae s . hat ti,ha w enhe cout w aays tllngyo toele,oureettovr quedndet,owthes ch thnhe isno su hi anvequecse spe lit. ans tetith tre i so freceeeewhou ha ktneay srtf s nt de ti overi nt icolelyidiulus so aotinbihasen
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erelngbiptin hoe,ojustt obu t spoorometng ke 28coonrsn e us a hava biptin ppt d 'sver omgovo beaueofa ineemr e usjuciy cie wchpe tbeth chrs agnsit. dsoths - thcla, okg tocongs n lily rode uithmu a spoe. >> the ino letdee in eaty >ye iink t's p us whhewe shlde lyg thleslur wth no sciciesfeglati shlde ne thrgh idtor wth e vos caefhoeras ecd. ithithyouall
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diert ors bh the ec o gistn. dit b eiftciui a ofheajor iert over melyigore t th aywaanis ruid. e asat ty arnon acofeglaons gnicrtecsethe isespresu baehe pridsre nlwith atorrungnymore ifherodesa oy,e llolw is wwilve an ai 80 ys a suoe, atou cng rely qkl sthe psse ng treecseheous e t llin y an t u ee a, beus he sturyunt, ats r leolth i gog he cngat se pot d thk it testi weilseanherod of
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listi,onla ddn' pa, t i tinanr ll t nt w nt. e ocs n pfe b i thk'sbeer tt ur steppg wn e techlo ievvi rid an ting anuna spif rue ty t touo ouat. i niol securit and it aossu as ws ctn 5 t pri at. s jdg, t turnoyou hi-prtyocin tinto errn ist sllelanin ts anag? >>el wt duan thd-rty dtre? >>heinmaon prode thd rts n sje t fothmeme pteio dogr at atstil e se doougrwi vho ha ggteth wli ia diffenditaagein ic is iinbyate vi iwhh set is me
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r e ur t rgze and exndroctn iorti prid bthd pes? i unreonleutt dendwh t iortiis. wa inngisni tt esr, wod lke to unrsndhaextlishe foatn ate wri abt. wa tokg t is - ha ael pne, i ven iponsix ifthtooy ll on t would nd ptu omyt, meel pne mbs,om m addess,me el tts wh isth g de otr plemu he al exitg tuf [luger anowherare otr le at a swhis tatourr
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bo. > ata gquio, dg poer leyo onha ptues cephe d n rried ouanhi f mylfut'moredor oter au ow yo qustongo ck t te rinastame t isa ryhrtghday o ki tisis til to occynd rica tic yo qesonris mi caonus tst up su. ere ey twpele ttg b a ty hae a de urillceama er chne th. ant fe sso hba
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at coer abo,ou ha nothi thi a thg fea ansee mthall uth ware eag iryn lovngbehio artn povirspe si nts,lcolsannyus os naor a eomhingodend i i taten y don venyin thidedou veaithoul retrapanto e st ofheor i ilthkha th uld bsigfany diinhe iitadtobe rapant so tttiswh you
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sahael,ifuegot hehi toid lut deo esin eerrs's edom ndwe l loatt uile ha rson toooatit. houn'bencrnd. >>hais llargme. aut] > eidoswh yo sul be yis, yousulbe red aue tys o relaonrivteou whh dicoag pelero innsucvehis oueonis. ifiseo a nsucvethg. aute >>hawaa d mp, beusyocahaa so wi a aohl ob,o h
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go t alcoli anyusut dsn wt iso no yan ott a re a thh n gng t gto coli anoyms dh' gog bad. s ishe rt tng ate ou b nceed bo wher th sides. d h i reit an th i aoodexaleof t peofprivenformioha ou b otted > eteivou ame. thk a hean test inkeiou lerite th i whywe k ou doo ose 's legima inre a cce a is t cae u ve mhi wr thayo wtoidut caetic rquri pracanmb t iwh yothk outhgonmt use nforti resec whmartluer k thei

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