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tv   U.S. Senate  CSPAN  November 6, 2015 6:00pm-8:01pm EST

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i recall you were not to be ambassador in pakistan as well as egypt. i want to thank you for your many years of dedicated service in a very difficult area. i don't think we have had any interaction ambassador noel and and -- nuland but i appreciate your willingness to testify today. a great concern is this and let me divert by telling a story. i happen to be in a audience with pope francis a little while back and he was presented a small christian crucifix. it was worn by a young syrian man who was captured by the jihad is and he was told to convert and he refused. he chose his son a chance of tradition christianity and he was. his mother was able to recover his body and found across and fled and made her way to austria where she settled as a refugee
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and one of the persons i was within this audience presented that to pope francis. one of the more dramatic -- parts of his crisis that seems to come and go in regards to art tension is this deliberate systematic attack on christians and other faith traditions including sec and other religious minorities and by the way i watch that population america where that in lincoln nebraska. is this genocide? >> i don't know the answer to that. i think that's a legal term. i think there will be some announcements on that very shortly. >> i would appreciate your willingness to engage robustly on this topic.
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the chairman introduced a resolution that does call this genocide and while there are certain legal implications from that nonetheless elevating the plight of christians and other minorities in their ancient homeland including syria which is approximately the christians are tempers in the population raises the international consciousness and provides a gateway for further strategy around defense and security measures as well of all of this hopefully in the future stabilizing reintegration of the population back into their rightful homelands. this is a very important i think gateway to use this resolution as an important gateway for not only discussion to elevate consciousness but again a larger platform as to stabilize these areas and demand the rich diversity and religious tradition that existed in these areas be allowed to not only return but to flourish.
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there are significant problems with this obviously in iraq as well. we have been able to perform a burgeoning relationship with the kurds who have been very respectful of religious plurality and have undertaken waves of immigration or refugee populations as well as the jordanians and the lebanese. this is very important component as we move forward and thanks to a strategy that actually -- and a political settlement moving forward. there's another problem however i would like to point out. my understanding we have only committed 53 christians as refugees from the conflict in syria so that's disproportionate to the population. can you give any perspective on that please? >> my colleague ann richards is here with mr. rodriguez a few years ago to talk about refugee
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admission policy and the numbers i think as of today are a little over 2000 syrians and we are planning to admit some more. they estimate very strict vetting requirements and research into their particular circumstances and background. i don't have an answer why the christians are underrepresented. >> one of the challenges the christians are generally not in refugee camps so they will be spread out to the population whether it's in the basement of a relative or in some church basement or some other circumstances cordoned into some definable entity like a refugee camp. that's part of the problem but clearly this segment of serious population is under greater stress as are others. >> mr. fortenberry we entirely agree that these communities are
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under enormous stress and we have been in close contact with them through their religious leaders both in the country and their religious leaders here and the u.s.. ..
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just aa great, bipartisan thank you to both of you. >> the chair thanks the gentleman.
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we know you are center on a tough mission. please don't take any of the remarks from the deus as personal. we have a charge to get answers on behalf of our constituents, and many of us on both sides of the aisle are frustrated with the circumstance. a lot of people watch what is happening and do not know the answer. amb. patterson,. ambassador patterson, i think you were asked earlier about the refugee flow into europe and why the arab countries were not doing more accept paying to help ameliorate, and the sense was why are they taking many of these refugees. ii believe your answer was, they are different societies and do not accept. with all due respect, europe respect, europe is a different society than much of arabia. how we doing nothing, do we
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have no plan, no interest in urging and pressuring and cajoling our era partners, so to speak, and the region bordering syria particularly to take any of these refugees who would do anything more than have the move lock stock and barrel across seas, dangerous journeys across landon mountains and coal and everything cultural? is there no other effort in that regard? >> mr. chairman, there are efforts to encourage countries to take in more refugees. it is not that hundreds of thousands of syrians to live in these countries. the issue is that they have -- a number of them have tiny, domestic populations. and the population of foreigners, guest workers that are in some cases eight or ten times the local population.
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so they are very reluctant to take an additional -- >> isn't that a similar circumstance in many other european countries, the smaller ones, the same exact circumstance is present in that moment. small populations being overrun by people of completely different cultures. >> again, we have encouraged the countries to take in refugees and to give generously. >> is there. >> is there any plan for more than encouragement like subtle pressure? diplomatic, economic, pressure to help alleviate the situation? it seems fantastic to many that they are happy to help watch this and flow of humanity into europe and take virtually none in themselves. some of the countries have, but some have not. >> jordan and lebanon and turkey have taken millions. >> but there are others that border that have not. >> yes. and the other thing i think
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the phenomenon we are seeing is that most of them prefer to join family members who have gone to other countries. i do not think that there has been such a draw for refugees to resettle in the gulf. again, there are hundreds of thousands. >> if they aren't welcome in the gulf and are welcome in your, i would imagine you would go where you feel more welcome. if you're not welcome at all in the neighboring countries you will choose the best of your options, i imagine. that is just a thought. i appreciate your answer and hope the administration would do as much as it could to encourage our partners and allies in the region to do more than what they are doing in regard to physically taking as refugees. at this time this hearing is adjourned. [inaudible conversations]
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>> this week ohio defeated a measure to legalize recreational use of marijuana. join us for a look at the path chosen in colorado. the steamboat institute briefly hosted a debate on the topic. here is a preview. >> at the beginning we hear people say, well, it costs too much in the stores which will result in the underground market. when you think about it, now that there are these doors, where do you want to go? they want to access it in a way similar to an adult who
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wants to use alcohol. if you find someone who has it in that they have what you want and it is what they say it is and they give it to you and you are safe, or do you want to stop store? we are seeing sales, you have seen them going, they started low and have been getting higher because people have become more accustomed to the system command there is a reasona reason why more and more people are buying marijuana from the store. it is preferable in every way. >> if you are producer in another place where the mexico or some other state, and you want the heat to be off of you, lower your overhead are reducing the amount of security you need to operate underground, guess where you are going to come, colorado. we know it is happening because we know how much is being exported out of the state. >> and that was a brief portion of the marijuana legislation debate hosted by the steamboat institute. you can see that program in its entirety tomorrow night at 8:00 p.m. eastern on our companion network c-span.
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>> about whom will you next right? i thought, there is only one person about whom i would write if i were to write a 2nd biography. i remembered bond offer. i wrote that book. and i thought, i thought, i'm going to be standing next to the president speaking to some of the most important people in the world. who knows how i will feel in the moment. i have the idea that i might i might do that. i thought maybe i will give them books later. if i feel the chutzpah in the moment to be able to pull off the goofiness come i will do it. >> this sunday night author and radio host on his writing career, best-selling biography theof theologian bond offer and the crossover between religion and politics. >> it is important for everyone to take politics seriously and vote but it is
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never to make an idol of politics. there are people who have done that comeau worshiping that idol rather than the got it would cause them to care for the poor and injustices command i think that it is a fine line, something i talk about fairly often. >> sunday night at 8:00 o'clock eastern and pacific on c-span q&a. >> what are the challenges posed by the refugee crisis in europe and in what ways can governments and other institutions better respond? coming up next, a panel including academics, researchers, and diplomats discuss the topic. this is one hour and 45 minutes and was hosted recently by the wilson center here in washington. >> first of all, we wantall, we want to welcome you to the wilson center here this morning. i have a public policy fellow here at the wilson
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center. i don't know how familiar you guys are the center, but my normal job is in taxes where i ami am a professor of political science and director of the tower center at smu in dallas. and it is really a nirvana for scholars like me to be able to come and spend quality time here at the wilson center, so this is my sabbatical year command i am delighted to be here. i would like if everyone to take a moment in silence your phones. let me welcome you. the official memorial the president woodrow wilson -- woodrow wilson.
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actionable ideas for congress, the administration command the broader policy committee. they are going to look at europe's refugee challenge, response to an international crisis. the program is cohosted by several different programs here at the wilson center and addition to the global europe program which is a primary sponsor. it is also sponsored by the middle east program. this crisis has its origins in part in the middle east and also by the global sustainability and resilience program. this is, as i am sure all of you are aware, and incredibly difficult moment in time. the conflict and violence that has been raging across what someone called the arc
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of instability running roughly from west africa, sub-saharanafrica, sub-saharan africa, all the way to south asia and the asian subcontinent. i have said that this is a multilevel crisis. it is 1stit is 1st and foremost a humanitarian crisis, some would say humanitarian disaster. you have got in many countries in europe 10,000 people a day arriving at the border. we arewe are looking at roughly a million refugees coming this year, maybe more. with no end in sight. the question is how to cope with this.this. where the moral and legal commitments that we have in the west to deal with this kind of exodus? and, of course, this is a tremendous political policy challenge and is also a crisis, i would argue, of
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governance for europe and for the world committee. we are lucky to have a distinguished panel of experts that i will briefly introduce. i know a lot of you have their biographies in front of you, but for those who are watching online watching this broadcast, i just want to say a few words about them command then we will go straight to panel. i we will introducei will introduce them. each of them will make a brief remark and then i will have a couple of rounds of questions with them, little dialogue with the panel, and then i will open it up for your questions. first of questions. first of all, i want to introduce philip ackermann, someone i have gotten to no quite well in the brief time he has been in the us. he is sitting just to the left of kathleen new line 20 introduce in a minute.
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philip is the minister deputy chief of mission at mission at the embassy of the federal republic of germany in washington dc, basically the number two german diplomat in the united states. looking at his bio, you may be surprised to find out that he is a high-level diplomat with a phd in our history. which is great training, i suspect, to be a diplomat. the other things i wish to highlight is, he headed the german task force for afghanistan and pakistan. silly has a deep involvement in south asia. afghanistan is one of the prime sources for refugees coming to europe. among other things, he worked as a speechwriter for two foreign ministers.
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the senior research professor of european and eurasian studies at johns hopkins. published many books including veiledfailed lesions, moscow, washington, budapest commend the 1956 hungarian revolt. also hungary and the soviet bloc. since they have been at the center of this crisis he will have something to say about that gary in position. i might just conclude my introduction by pointing out that he has got a new book that just came out called this is big, the strategy and statecraft. sitting next to his left is captain brian lythgoe, senior us coast guard liaison to the department of state where he serves in the maritime security division
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of the bureau of political and military affairs. he is a career aviator, a decorated flyer, among other things has served with the 6th fleet in naples, italy,, italy, and a liaison, very important, to the european border patrol agency. soso he has a lot of front-line experience looking at what is going on north and west africa, the middle east, mediterranean, and many front-line european states. finally, and then we will segue to the panel, i want to introduce kathleen newland, someone whose work i have known for many years and followed her career but we have never met until today ironically even though both of us has been much of our career and lifetime working on this issue of migration. she is a senior fellow and cofounder of the migration policy institute.
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she sits on the board of overseers of the international rescue committee. she's on the board of directors of the board of usa or unhcr. she has worked for the unhcr, world bank, secretary-general. thought it wasthought it was interesting that she cofounded an organization called the amount us with lord david allen in london, the author of many, many, many books. i am not going to list them all, but we are going to start with doctor newman. i just want to ask her if she could help us understand the nature and origins of this crisis and give us some historical perspective on this. let's start with you.
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>> thank you very much.much. thank you for coming. i'm looking forward to this discussion. i really want to start where jim started, with the multidimensional nature of this crisis. as you started your comments i thought, there goes my introduction. but since you were so brief i think that i can elaborate a little. reiterating that this is a humanitarian crisis, a legal and policy crisis,crisis, especially for european states, a political crisis both for individual countries and that the eu level, which makes it also solidarity crisis,crisis, but not just at the level, also in the region and globally. i suspect that is something we will get into in the discussion. on the humanitarian crisis, i think that the more even than the numbers which as you know are extremely high,
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surpassing probably, you know, the number of changes daily and quite big ways, but more than 750,000 people have arrived in europe by fisa far this year. in october total of people arriving was higher than the total for all of last year. that is what is overwhelming, the capacity and european countries too. receiving people in a humane way.a humane way. so far this year we are approaching 3500, which will, probably at about the same trouble as last year of deaths at sea, put onsea, but on a much larger base of people moving, so death rates have gone down which is a real tribute to the rescue at sea effort that the european countries and others including us have mounted.
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i know that brian will talk a little bit more about that. there is no end in sight, andsight, and i think this is inducing areal sort of existential panic. not only is there no end in sight,sight, but there is every reason to believe that the pace will continue or indeed accelerate with the advent of russian bombing in the destabilization of front lines. more people are fleeing into turkey and from there there is every reason to expect that they will try to move on. i had a long conversation yesterday with the unhcr operators and jordan. people are leaving not because therebecause they are starving all because of cuts and world food allocations for because they
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are in despair. and they demand of themselves that they try to find the prospect for their families and for their futures. and they do not see that prospect in jordan and lebanon which won't allow them to work, and turkey were work opportunities are restricted and so on. so thaton. so that is, you know, the humanitarian crisis. the legal and policy crisis in europe is in the face of this kind of case of these numbers how to european countries meet their legal obligations under the 1951 refugee convention, how do they do it in the face of these numbers? at least sweden is expecting twice the number of asylum seekers this year than it had last year, which is twice the number of them that have the year before. it has been an exponential growth, and a real policy
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crisis around how to deal with this number of asylum seekers. the stuff forgetnot forget that not everyone is a syrian who is coming into europe. about three quarters are syrian. the next largest number are from afghanistan, which as you know is being deeply destabilized. and then pakistan, somalia, iraq, and some others. they are much more sub sahara now. so how do you deal with it? the political crisis, you arecrisis, you are well aware of the rise of the right an individual countries, not all countries, but even within the countries that have been most generous both sweden
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and germany, the most generous have toughened up there asylum policies and practices and that reflects, i think, the solidarity crisis within the eu were a real to track eu is emerging with britain, denmark, britain, denmark, and the central european countries being extremely resistant to any form of burden sharing with the other countries in the burden falling most heavily on sweden, germany, austria, and a few others. so a multilevel crisis. let me just leave you with aa question, do we need new institutions, new processes, new laws? new international agreements? i don't think we need new laws, but on the others i
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would say say absolutely yes, clearly what we have in place now is not working satisfactorily. because it is mostly aimed at a short-term response, and emergency response at careof care and maintenance command we need to think about this long-term, the potential contributions of these people, not just the burden that they result, european demographics, looking at the pattern that leaves people with no alternatives to smuggling routes. so labor mobility and so on. family reunification, these are the kind of big long-term ideas that need to think about. >> thank you, kathleen. i want to segue to our german representative here and ask him to talk a little bit about the german and european response. >> thank you command thank
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you for having us here today and thank you for introducing me so kindly. you can see that ii am certainly not an expert on immigration, but i am happy to talk about this. let me make six short points. the 1st one is, numbers are very difficult right now. we have a rough estimate command what we hear from our administration back home is that so far 710,000 people have asked for protection, and we have this year about seven to 10,000 per day coming, every, every day. 80 percent of them are syrians, afghans command iraqis. we have nigerians also coming. and others. but 80 percent from these three countries. and it is not stopping.
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we somehow hope that the winter would slowdown the inflow, the fact is it is not happening. practically also because there is a very unfortunate human tragedy, the situation tragedy, the situation this is a germany is closing the borders, you better get with germany now, otherwise you will get the chance. that is the situation as we see it right now. we expect this year between 800,001,000,000 refugees in germany alone which would be like if i've billion people from mexico would come from mexico in a years time. our administration is not laid out to cope with this. you might imagine cliché, the german administration is
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solid but not very flexible. they are stretched out. it isit is fair to say that without the help of the civil society, the institutionalized civil society and individuals we would not have come up with the influx of migrants. it is quite amazing to see that somehow it works. people get shelter, and it is thanks to individuals. 50 percent of germans are involved in the refugee crisis. the population is really contributing to that. the 3rd.which is one that we hear often in america, what do we think about security? now, frankly, this is not our 1st priority. we don't have the privilege
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to that the people who come. they are there. but we feel that, you know, the danger of infiltration through terrorists or by terrorists is not the biggest problem.problem. we're pretty sure there are a couple that has amongst them, but unfortunately we have experience with muslim extremism, about 750 foreign fighters from german origin moved to syria and fought there. so this is something we have experience with. our problem is to teach those people to live or to abide by our laws. the rules of our society, how to learn that, you know, boys and girls are co- educated in germany, how to make them understand that is part of the culture command
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to make them understand that freedom of religion is a fundamental right of every person in that there is nothing wrong with homosexuals. this is homosexuals. this is a security problem because it leads to aggression intention. my 1st point is -- and that is actually we have some of the very, very, clearly, it is the moot. you have seen in summer during the summer, and germany, people came and handed out things. this is not as strong as it used to be. we still have a very helpful
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civil society,society, but they are more and more likely to ask questions. people are threatened. people are threatened because there is a village in northern germany which has hundreds of inhabitants and get 700 refugees. these people are exposed and feel somehow uneasy and not which is something we have to observe closely and deal with. i have to say, i like other european countries, germany
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has not had the populist right-wing movement, demonstrations every monday great thousand people go on the street and demonstrate. it's not more controversial. something quite remarkable, this refugee influx to germany is a huge opportunity. this might cause a 2nd economic miracle. they are totally firm on the side of the chancellor.
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actively they go to the shelter and what -- asked whether they have elders are technicians and implicating the beginning from procedures. so german business is very, very optimistic about that, unlike the public mood, this is better. >> and my last point is, this is the question to be careful in the room. one thing is clear, it cannot go like this for another year. we have to find a solution. we have a couple of tools here, and europe in the federal government are working on that. we have been speaking to turkey. there is now little signs of hope when it comes to syria on a diplomatic level,
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trying to set up hotspots for registration. all of this is a start and will not change the influx the day after tomorrow. we must make clear that this will not change things quickly. so we see that at the end of the day we need more european solidarity. we need more european solidarity. you mentioned austria and sweden. you should mention them both because per capita they take more and have been extremely generous. others have been less than generous, and a certain moment we have to find ways and means to get to it. >> on that note talking about european solidarity, they're has been tremendous resistance in eastern europe to this. talk a little bit about what is going on in eastern europe and why they are so
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reluctant to pitch in and help. >> thank you very much. i cannot help but note of the last presentation that whatever one's view used to be a germany during and after world war ii for that matter, this is not truly over. germany has emerged as the most humane country in europe, and i have nothing but admiration for chancellor merkel and those who support her. and i thinki think you should be very proud of your country, sir. the 2nd point i would like to make is to note, to recall that i was once a refugee myself many decades ago, more than five decades ago. and i was welcomed in
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austria and then very warmly in the united states, for which i am grateful. and on the way coming here from europe i was sponsored by the international rescue committee. [laughter] i have repaid the cost of transportation many, many times. [laughter] and i ami am certainly very pleased you are doing the work you are doing. let me start out by saying that i had a student visiting with me yesterday and complaining about the better relationship between europe and the united states , including america's seemingly lack of interest in the refugee crisis. and so we were talking about the transatlantic relations, not about the macy's me, and
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i said to him, this is hardly new. and i looked on my bookshelf. there was a book there, little book called atlantic crisis published in 1966. nothing is knew under the sun. what is new is germany's rise as a humane country and as a humane society. otherwise the differences are, i'm sorry to say, not new. as for the european union, i think it is important to state again, it is a miracle that it has lasted as long as it has in that it continues to work. as well as some of us would like.
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when before admitting all of these countries offer good cooperation once it became members, estonia, poland, latvia, actually all of them. so the real question is why is the european union constantly facing such real crisis. what is nationalist resistance. most people identify themselves by their national identity. this has not changed much. the culture follows
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institution building. the 2nd is that the european union has always been an elite project. if you put up 25 or 30 years ago of both about the european union, and many member states the vote probably might have been negative. so the elite supported to overcome the wars of the past. it is important to recall that prior to the end of world war ii more wars have been fought between france and germany than any other two countries in the world. and look at them now. it is an amazing story. it is not very much else.
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there is a basic structural inequality, the size of the member states. it is difficult to integrate them and bring them together. the problem of the new member states which are new members and therefore to assimilate them into the mentality of the european union is extremely difficult. now what about these knew eastern members, the institutional adjustment has been made. attended meetings, adjusted institutions, problems constantly. hungary has received two or 300 suggestions from various european institutions to make this adjustment in the judicial system or that and
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the other countries have pretty much the same way, don't pick only on hungary in this respect. the problem is not so much in the institutional arrangement but the culture, the political minds that have not changed. so i would say majority, poland for the polls, hungry for the hungarians, slovakia says we want only christians in europe. the former estonia foreign minister went further tone of the better new member says only whites should be there. much of society jumped on them, for sure, but it was still said and it is a commonly held view. in other words, watch what
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is in their heads, not so much the institutions that they build. against this background the hungarians get the most criticism. that defense was atrocious, but some kind of actual control had to be built. the problem was not so much that it was built but how was built, what kind of things it was command how the refugees were treated. i am sure many of you saw the pictures of the refugees at the eastern railway stations in budapest where i believe purposefully they were kicked outside that way they can reach out to the right wing party further to the right, the far right party challenging them, and
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so therefore the issue was domestic political game in order to get the support of far right supporters. i believe this is what is happening in a smaller land slovakia, croatia and the czech republic which we used to think would be the best candidate for the truly democratic western oriented society. i just want to mention the conspiracy theories that accompany because this is not a written in english very much because conspiracy theories are rampant all over central and eastern europe. i read up on this. the refugees are sent to europe by americans, particularly george soros
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who has the disadvantage of being american, rich, and jewish. therefore he is fantastic and the wonderful target for these mindless people. and so america is seen i'm sorry to say as being behind this refugee crisis the sioux would like to keep their nationstates your. the differences, these people are in the majority in central and eastern europe. >> i want to pick up on something you said about border patrol and border issues. the border for your requires
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some external order and patrol. so i wanted to ask the captain if you could reflect a little bit on his experiences comeau what he thinks about the border issue, the question of the mediterranean itself, and looking beyond this at the root causes in africa, north africa, and the middle east. >> thank you command i would likei would like to thank the wilson center for inviting me to participate on today's panel. what i will be giving you is more and operators perspective, and what i would like to say 1st off is, the coast guard is western hemisphere focused, we are globally engaged. so we have a handful of coast guard men and women who are over in europe and the mediterranean and one even in africa were trying to make a difference by
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working with allies and partners to improve maritime safety and security. i will come to the border patrolling issue which i would like to try to frame quickly from an american perspective. what we experienced in 1980. that was 100,000, little bit more, cubans who fled to the united states which was overwhelming to our 1st responders, our government, the state of florida. we did cope with it, and then later in the early '90s there was a large haitian and cuban mass migration. those migrations were large, 25 and 30,000, but on one day the record number of migrants interdicted at sea in the caribbean was 3200.
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andand as was stated earlier on the panel, last week coming into greece migrants were coming in 10,000 a day. that is epic proportion. and also, what i would say, too, is take a look at what that means. and proportionally speaking so when a boat, small rubber raft that is grossly overloaded and manifestly unsafe with 100 migrants are we going to accommodate these folks?
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depending on the migrants there is a chance to change some of the culture and fabric. i was posted is the coast guard advisor. also i would say the migrants the european partners and north africans, many are doing the best they can do respond. hundreds of thousands, millions of dollars transporting migrants in unsafe boats, unsafe c states. and this just for the money.
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with her book -- with regard to the border patrolling in the mediterranean having been stationed in italy in malta and knowing a lot of the folks with a european union naval forces as well as front tax, the european border control agency, front text does not own any maritime forces. so -- it coordinates european european response to protect the external borders of the european union. it -- they have gotten very, very good. in late 2013 and 2014 there are immigrants for migrant boat sunk a save more than
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140,000 migrants but they did that by having a lot of ships and aircraft and personnel assigned to the central mediterranean region. they may have wanted to be in other places. definitely a financial cost. right now front tax has the joint operation triton, the central mediterranean because as kathleen pointed out, although the biggest factor right now that vector still exists in the central mediterranean.
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planes, boats, debriefing teams, and i tip my hat to them. you cannot overlook the impact this has a merchant shipping. when you look at march and traffic coming out of the suez canal and tour the city gibraltar those merchant vessels.
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800 times so far this year they have diverted assistance. so the shipping industry is owed a debt ofa debt of gratitude, but at the same time there is a cost associated with that because that is taking their vessel off of its regular service. there is no economic cost, but they do it. and lastly, the mediterranean sea, sometimes people lose track that it is a c. and it is not like a small -- and the weather is very, very challenging and very nasty starting right now in the fall and then in the winter it gets bad. so it is important that there be this 1st
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responders out there, but it is just -- it is not paint a rosy picture. >> one quick round of questions and then we will open it up to the questions. -- up to the audience. was the us responsibility. the core obligation is not to return a refugee to a country the catch-22 is
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there is no right to enter a country you have to reach another's territory in order to claim that protection. and non- referable does not enter into the picture unless you are under the jurisdiction of another country. the loss of controversy over maritime indictments and whether fisher flying the flag of your country than obligates your country under the refugee convention the us supreme court has said no. in fact, the convention obligations don't apply extraterritorial he.
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there is a lot primarily in the crisis in controversy over that. which creates an incentive for countries to prevent people lending. with turkey and other countries, we are aimed at keeping people in the region. on the us role 10,000 refugees.
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and days and take degrees for days reception. very important to remember that distinction between asylum-seekers and resettled refugees because the united states is protected by geography. germany does not have the luxury of screening people in deciding who will be accepted and so forth and planning for their reception there's a lot of pressure from us advocacy groups from refugee resettlement organizations for the us to take more and of the proposals that we should be taking hundred thousand a year. almost impossible adjustably >> i want to turn back to philip. when i was studying germany many years ago as a student i was told that germany had
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this very specific culture .. >> >> 20% of germans have a least one non german parent.
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we are clearly in this society that was more conservative political parties and have come to terms with us with the emigration society. we have a very bad birth rate is 1.four we are shrinking demographically. now to get 1 million refugees in six months, of their profiles match with what we need to. we don't have that privilege
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to say let's make the best of it but i think generally speaking particularly the one in central and eastern europe should be aware. just 25 years ago more unified over germany over the last 50 years. is a difficult process taking decades to understand the our immigration society but we are moving quicker in and we have to prepare for that.
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i don't expect the czech republic to take the save the view that germany takes because of the danger to the country. so from their national interest not because of the solidarity but they should be much more open-minded. >> to come back to you, the hungarian prime minister accused syria of morial -- moral imperialism. what was he talking about? [laughter] >> ask that easier one. what he had in mind we have
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not talked lately. [laughter] but there are certain national interest as opposed to values to trinitarian approaches they remade homogeneous. they don't like anybody that is not like them. so when chancellor merkle is to maya admirer said the refugees are welcome in germany, we thought that was an invitation for more to
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come and those countries in the european union and are prepared to embrace them this is the best interpretation i can give. [laughter] >> this is on the record. i would like to hear you say more about the border control issue and how the europeans are dealing with this. talking earlier i assume everyone in this reminder stations what tsingtao is it is a remarkable accomplishment if you're old enough to remember the days when you cross a national border without having your
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papers checked but if you have these internal orders eliminated you have to have border control and it is just a skeletal operation with very few assets. how will europeans get a handle on these borders? >> it is a challenge. we have the luxury of the united states to have customs importer protection to have those agencies with broader authorities in you have those sovereignty issues and i am not the best qualified person to speak to that more at the operator level.
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with that push and pull factor that are associated with migration so when we look to africa with co-star of mobil trading teams with the partners coming to the u.s. to coastguard trading, those through good maritime law enforcement through security because with the sub-saharan states with maritime trade that is safe and secure to afford them, then maybe will not feel the need to leave their
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country the west african coastal state historically had a lot of illegal fishing. the country was a receiving for the fishing licenses. they lost the revenue. it was unemployed or underemployed. there was a security issue because of the country the majority of the protein came from fish. so when you have that perfect storm that led this is mrs. touche tried to depart with mass migrations. >> tell the audience about libya in particular for what
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is going on the coast, the european union did have capacity building mission and they were trying to help the navy and coast guard but the conditions is that there along your concern and had to believe that the libyan coast guard has been trained by western countries but right now with no effective border control it makes it very difficult so that factor of 140,000 people basically from north-central africa from libya, you don't know where the money is going or who is facilitating that.
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>> describe the smugglers says travel agents. >> with organized crime is involved, they want to make things as easy as they can. it is almost like a travel agency. >> to go but change is even in europe. >> beth british refer to it to the lower 48. [laughter] >> we have seen a desperate attempt. hungary since it is not a
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member as they have tried to secure the borders then trying to walk to the balkans if there are 400,000 people then border protection because you sit on the hon period and serbian border. what do you do? '' where is border protection rest? so without securing the border with the european union tries to do is to head
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up the registration center to call them a hot spot and you try to channel the refugee and that means if you are a refugee because we have many of them also. >> batted say pretty good description. but non refugees are not sent back in great numbers is of crisis of 40% of asylum seekers are being returned and it is probably higher now. the people are not moving very quickly through the system but that europeans
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have with returning to international protection is one of the factors they try to come to grips with but people have family ties and supportive communities do drag people lot of dead in the middle of the night to put them on the plane in chains is not good optics. >> the audience has been patient let's open it up for questions. please keep them brief rand to the point. >> as i watched the news of the refugee crisis, i can help but think of the respondents said european nations of the jews to escape the holocaust.
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have you thought of that parallel in your own work? >> this is something so strong that one of the numerous reasons the that is very important. [laughter] >> i an immigrant my concern relative the crisis did europeanize sympathize of what they have to go through this seems that everybody is forgetting the libyan part
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and not the european union they help to break libya. and therefore i would like comments on african refugees when president above the said the intervention was not well but agassi has the refugees so rare they are concerned they years. >> there eighth few are of
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libya and they are coming from poignance further south in africa. so of those countries are sub-saharan africa. of people seeking protection of many of those countries over gambia are not considered to be refugees they are not at war the asylum approval rates are over 80 percent in europe and the sudanese in in
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somalia are among the top groups. and is more than half but it is not controlled by the libyan government that we talk to but they don't have the power nobody so far has the power to bring order to back. so it is worse than the wild west. were a is increased by over 1,000 percent so there is
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some logic to the focus but there is no excuse. >> bid has become much more dangerous it is easier but when libya was still under gadaffi they had a dirty deed with this guy that to close the sub-saharan africa refugees did not allow them to embark but they still to come over the mediterranean. but those future refugees have a chance to say because of the syrians have left's
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refugees than we used to. >> i am a analyst and i have a very easy question. seems that western europe has been forced to be reactive powdery get ahead of the power curve to address it in a humane way with the issue of conspiracy theories to support a the egress of the assyrians and
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these to get rid of the problem with the friendly people. >> and includes the christian minorities. >> conspiracy theories are all over the place. and it is a habit in russia and eastern europe to look under the rug i also work for the u.s. government as opposed to what is being said. but the one they mention
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that i refer to are ridiculous. of a blake to make a comment about their previous question about the holocaust to the knowledge though horrors that it brought to the world. some of the world were to supporters have not crisp -- submitted any responsibility but to say they were victims so in hong three right in the middle of the city that makes no distinction with the hungarian assistance in
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those that were invaded and it is an outrage in debt was executioners. and it was extensive. comparable to what the germans are doing. if you don't come to terms with what you did with the new refugees obviously are altogether different. >> there is a microphone coming.
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>> i was taking class's in this is important when croatia and serbia and macedonia but during the wars of the 1990's out rather base hits and 1990's for kids and people as they hope to come back 50 percent women and 50% kids they're not even interested in
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asylum with the economic opportunity white greece or slovenia or croatia and in fact, they want to get to germany. they live a life of despair but my question is how do you see this situation? it might endanger that protection because of the confusion because you can return to other countries.
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i understand from the solidarity but the problem within europe that is my great crisis would probably trigger the german policy and before that there is a rush to get to germany. so how do foresee the future ? because they have exposed the balkan countries with those under pressure to put limits to the number of refugees. >> i knew dublin would come
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up eventually of the whole issue of moral hazard. >> you raise some very good question and said you articulated some of those contradictions that our inherent among the country's where people want to go to new germany because they're economically vibrant but they also want to go to a welcoming country. because their high style to refugees. so the unwillingness to except on the part of many e members of has forced this dilemma and their rational people there want to wear -
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- earth believe it would dash earn a living but it is very often a household decision because they're more likely to survive the journey also to work to send money back to the family that is a rational household decision but they're doing what they think is best for their families. 92% of the refugees said they want to go back to syria as soon as possible. they may change their mind but at this point that is their objective in their possibilities for temporary protection will come up as it was with the balkan refugees in the '90s but to
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say one more thing, of the need to open legal channels for people to move but european countries are going in just the opposite direction. they are cutting down on reunification. this will just be into the illegal movements. >> a very long question but i am confident. so with the argument in
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their reason for that is these people are desperate. they don't say -- have any future to say please come to germany. that is not the case. the meet in shelters and on the ground it is a secret they know exactly when to expect them. then they find their ways. and the dublin system that nobody has the right to come.
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>> but even greece would have millions of refugees. if it's the first countries set foot on you ask for asylum. this is the country that you have to stay in this country. but i think that is very good on the road including croatia. >> nobody wants to go through.
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don't get the wrong idea they are very difficult. so i think of the refugees and that is the reason. >> dell want to go to germany. >> be patient. >> i will get to you as best they can.
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>> it is somewhat misleading if countries are all good or all bad. so to talk about the majorities and minorities. even in germany that i have spent considerable time. but to welcome from bavaria. and there is an issue there. >> i 70 similar organizations in the
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gambling gets him bringing food to go out of their way to be helpful but the refugees all want to go to germany. but how do you do this? it is an important question to keep in mind. >> we would get those last two in the middle. >> mention the fact germany has already received 700,000 of the figure of 300,000
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there is an enormous reservoir of potential refugees in turkey, lebanon and displaced syrians or even more wretched kiev's ms come to many more millions. what is the situation for handling this? i have heard anything about france. >> but i haven't heard any policy. what can be done in the next two years? in the countries are these people are to possibly move
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to a political situation so 92 percent would like to go back gore least would consider that. >> that is a tough question. >> it is a huge decision and after the war leaving home is a strong feeling some might but if you tell me what to do it is more than half of the population. >> so a the remedy is to go to the conflict in syria.
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so try if you can to stop the war and syria that this administration is showing ever is to strengthen to do the best to come to a solution. it is a huge support. we see momentum that is totally remedied to this crisis to stop the war on syria. >>. >> to show how desperate they are people are already going back to syria from jordan and lebanon. with a number of refugees
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that is dropping. because the conflict has intensified that is how because the conflict has intensified that is how badly people want to get back. people are going back from this real ending countries which i find extraordinary. >>. >> if the remedy is diplomacy why is there a more military engagement to call those places? if they stem that flow?
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why is the question in short-term why aren't we doing long-term? >> very good question. [laughter] they think they are fine. evade idea of forced labor. we don't know how to do development. with that donors ability to fix. there are obstacles to new development that tends to be sold starting but in itself that will not solve the problem or military intervention.
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>> serving as a senior member of the policy planning staff and i can tell you categorically there is no such thing as long term planning. [laughter] >> come down to the front. >> i like the congressional journalist. you are right. the migrants to not have the right to to invade another country's borders but they have such deep compassion that we are not allowed to use rhetoric but we have to
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look at the pull factor as well as the push factor. definitely it seems when the migrants are rescued that is a great reward for their efforts. it is half christian half muslim their lead to engender good will. wide is that europe take advantage of countries like cosimo? for those to except for settle the muslim refugees. >> for those coming from
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kosovo and albania these are not countries that are in a position to do that. but to refer to them earlier we are living more and more as american universities lots of a german scientist go to america but when people think the life is better than their home life that is the risk in the opportunity.
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it is possible there will be sent back but the fact is in this globalized area to be so quick is a huge problem or a huge factor and i can only say america is the best example. >> we will come over here. >> what he said about the lack of capacity to handle any of the refugees. but so far the european countries have 100 percent
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of the burden. but my question is to any of you think the arab states were the very wealthy gulf states have an obligation to step up to the plate? when saudi arabia hosted the annual hajj. of course, it was a catastrophe but they have the infrastructure and the ability to handle millions of people up the same time. i am curious if there is any justification for saudi arabia to not take on any obligation with that sunii shiite divide. >> but historically christian with those in the
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gulf stepup. >> for with their domestic politics. those goals states have tiny populations with hundreds of thousands of syrians live and work in the gulf states. the wealthy syrians would have to flee to of dhabi or other places in the gulf. we're not there as refugees
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but they were living and working in the gulf states. there was no legal status. they're not there as refugees but the call is much more on to linda complex. >> he would be surprised how many people want to go to these countries. >> budget to be third class.
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with the majority say those in europe. >> i want to go back to the question of the role of the european and refugee crisis. with the international rescue committee i would like to know what redoing to bolster the resettlement programs as the advocate for the u.s. to take it more serious refugees? >> as i said before there is as strong advocacy effort to
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take more syrian refugees ended has up to the resettlement feeling from 70,000 last year to 85,000 is still a drop in the bucket absolutely. the resource implications are considerable. just the bedding and reception emplacement to support for resettle refugees is the order of $10,000 per person. that is partly because we make our procedures complicated there is a willingness to appropriate such funds or other ways to
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deal with this. those that private citizens take on the responsibility to support refugees. there is a tremendous willingness and we have done similar things in the past. but there has to be a serious effort to streamline procedures to put people through four different levels of screenings with such a of risk aversion with the silly idea with those heavily scrutinized channels. since we ramp up security procedures there have been three arrest from terrorist related activities.
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so there would have to be a reform of the system to accommodate more people. we can do a. >> and realized there is a different time in the 1950's when i was a refugee the quota for hon period refugees was three dozen or 4,000 that was filled in minutes of november in 56 in vienna that president eisenhower read to congress to ask for a special quota of 44,000 the that was approved in a few days by congress.
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better than i could come here realize it was the cold war in circumstances were different but this is my response to your question. >>. >> i want to thank the panel for this intricate panel with the goal of the wilson center and to he gave of comment. >> that is a superb question
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to take the call from the panel to act individually. we brought the george w. bush presidential library to smu he said he didn't want a think tank but the action take. to come up with ideas to put them into action what are the europeans going to do? it hasn't worked for decades so what will the policy looks like? if your house to design that consensus what would it be? >> like he would have a
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decent living in these circumstances. but to have a general policy but that could cope with a
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crisis. >> my answer is or has well-to-do immediately and though longer run to work out procedures with cooperative with the standards and spirits that they don't exist but those that do could not be applied because if he penalize austria 15 years ago then every other country in the union believes if they vote for this as it is a member
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of the zero pp group insurer to expel the country with these measures. this way with the european union to face more and more difficulties it will not be very easy. >> as far as actionable idea is i think the coast guard will continue to do but we do well which is subject matter expe which is subject matter expert exchanges aren't officer training in areas such as evidence collection and investigative techniques working with homeland's security agencies and european counterparts.
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in all tubby partner with the armed forces search and rescue training center where it prides itself to bring neighboring countries into a one month-long search and rescue. i have taught at the school we have had algerians and tunisian officers in class for one month. learning to properly execute search and rescue operations but the other half socialization getting to know your neighbors the international maritime organization in search and rescue system encourages collaborative agreements to lead to a more effective and timely search and rescue response. continuing to do the things that we do well maritime law to work with a southern
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european partners. >> is actionable but they can contribute in a concrete way. >> is a bright spot. >> to save thousands and thousands of people. i'm thinking how to be brief on this. and with those legal channels for mobility it is not so easy to draw bright lines as the legal categories comply. with those first asylum but use technology there is a
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great deal more that could be done. 80% of refugees have access to a mobile phone and 40% to a smart phone. and in more productive way is. with those that is actionable but what they are worried about but it is a key to successful integration to draw is in the diaspora communities. with the important aspect of that. it is important to develop a long-term prospect to get away from the exclusive beaverton's the response when things calmed down to put aside for the next
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crisis. suggests the european problem but so does brazil and thailand and other countries around the world to be a part of a comprehensive way to deal with a global crisis. it is important to bring in the private sector that is a lot better to channel the flow and logistics' it is a lot better than the governments to deal with that. . .
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