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tv   After Words  CSPAN  December 22, 2015 10:04pm-11:04pm EST

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>> host: what new would you say the most significant aspect of ronald reagan for people who knew and loved him? >> guest: everyone will take something different. this is they did with jesus and patton and lincoln and kennedy. i get heat on all those folks. i did not say a killing jesus: did not talk about spirituality or resurrection. now going to get it, you did not make him a saint, canonize ronald reagan. no, i didn't. i laid out the man in a fair and methodical way, and entertaining way and the hit on themes i feel are important that people did not know about. there is a lot of new stuff in the book. it is entertaining to read. you can put it together yourself. we did a fair and balanced job. i am proud of the book and ronald reagan will like it. he is up in heaven and knows
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about the book. >> host: i have to disagree. as someone who love this man , i read the book and was delighted to think i would be able to read and talk to you about ronald reagan. millions of americans have appreciation for his true greatness. he continues to inspire. i got the sense that you are undermining and demeaning his true greatness by throwing his stuff that is irrelevant to the and suggesting he was not really with it. he tells us all of the things he did. >> guest: i standi stand behind the book, no you are emotionally attached. i am not. i am an historian who writes in on this book. nothing i say will be
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challenged because we can back it all up. the selection of what we have is debatable,, but i did not set out to write saint ronald reagan. i set out to write here is a great president, here is what made him great. here is what he overcame. an assassin's bullet that almost took his life. it is a compelling dramatic story and we did a good job and i'm happy to talk to you about it. >> host: i am delighted and have to give the author the last word. it is good to be with you. i appreciate the time and look forward to the next one. >> host: it is going to be controversial. all my stuff is. i want to hear from the folks who read the book. always a pleasure. >> host: nice to talk to you.
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>> book tv is on facebook. like us to get publishing news, scheduling updates, behind-the-scenes pictures and videos,videos, author information, and to talk directly with authors. facebook .com/book tv. >> when the vice president and his critics going off the deep end he asked, does it bug you when people refer to me as darth vader? she said no, it humanizes you. [applause] >> saturday night at 830 eastern an in-depth look at policing and minority communities. former st. louis police officer, atlantic in washington dc police chief.
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>> most people get defensive if you are being offenses. being respectful and requested, it'srequested, it's not a crisis if it not a danger situation. they change the dynamics a little bit. >> sunday afternoon race in the criminal justice system. at 630 portions of this year's washington ideas festival speakers including mark warner, former vice president al gore and other anne-marie slaughter. >> we have to banish the word he is helping at home. helping is not actually taking the burden off of you. you are still figuring out what needs to be done and asking him to help. he is not the agent. he is the assistant. if we are going to get where
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we need to go men need to be fully equal coparents. >> for the complete schedule go to c-span.org. >> we are here with karl rove, the author of the triumph of william mckinley. mr. rove was a senior advisor for president george w. bush the architect of his election and reelection in 202,004.
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uses watershed election the changes party political process in the nation. it is all here. the personalities into plot. a great read for historians, political junkies and in our own wild election cycle america. now carl -- >> i will pay you for that later. awfully generous. >> host: let's introduce the man. who was william mckinley and what does he want? >> guest: and the most immediate sense is the governor of the state of ohio and throughout his entire career in congress from 17 -- 1876 to 1890 is become the lead voice within the republican party with a
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policy of protecting tariffs governor of the critical battleground state, no president is elected as a republican between the civil war in 1904 has not been born in the state of ohio. he is an immediate prospect. >> host: how big is ohio relative to other states? >> guest: the fourth-largest state in the union. most populous is new york. interestingly enough to have the states of inconsistent battleground states in the gilded age politics, new york and ohio. pennsylvania and illinois tend to lean reliably republican. in 18921892 cleveland carries the state of illinois by about three percentage points defeating the incumbent. >> host: what are his ambitions?
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>> guest: he wants to become president. there is some evidence that it has been -- and ambition his entire adult life. when he gets married his bride from one of the founding families confides upon their return from their honeymoon in new york and washington with her husband who has just been defeated the county attorneys job must be president of the united states. and she is thrilled by the prospect. the republican party has been beaten in the 1892 election. berkeley cleveland is coming to office. mckinley has been the governor of ohio. they think the election is going to be there's command he wants to be the nominee, but he is not the font -- the front runner.
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>> host: the depression happens after cleveland is elected. >> guest: the seeds begin to be seen the previous fall , but he gets elected in november. by the time he takes office in march the economy is moving downward. and it is enormously damaging. long-lasting and deep depression literally 15 percent of american workers lost their jobs in all likelihood. we don't have good economic statistics like we have now come over talking about hundreds of thousands tossed out of their jobs. and one day alone one county and upstate new york, 10,000 workers were lego. >> host: as bad as 2008 or worse? >> guest: worse in some respects because these were not self-inflicted wounds like we have on the american economic system with fannie and freddie dragging down a
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financial institution. some of these were large forces that we suffered suffer through because we were developing country. the american economy, we were terribly dependent upon foreign sources of investment to build factories, to open minds, to operate smelters to open and build railroads. what happened is a series of international events, the failure of the crop in argentina, the bank in london, these things caused foreign investors to pull back. that accelerated lavinia blamed is the cause of the recession. the decline in america's gold reserves. if you dip below that hundred million dollars level there is a concern of
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the american dollar will become basically worthless. we have paper currency but the paper currency was a matter of convenience. rather than carrying around athe pocket of large gold coins you can carry around paper money or conduct your business and paper money. >> host: the economy is in the tank, the republicans are hungry and helpful. who weather front runners? >> guest: the speaker of the house remain, and intellectual, the largest private library, 5,000 volumes, french tutor and in a classic wit. in the run-up to the 1896 election he talked about the
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coming election and said the democratic losses will be so plentiful that the defeated will be buried in unmarked graves. he was the fellow who once said the party could do no worse. he had a great wit and was the candidate backed by the leading figures of the republican party where the combine them of the party bosses led by the boss of new york and his running buddy. they had allies around the country, an odd collection of characters including one of the principal agents, james clarkson, publisher of the des moines register and he got the name because he apparently had atrocious handwriting and we always send an article a column and
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would put our et clarkson at the top because he was afraid they would not be able to decipher his handwriting. the most important of which is clarkson and the fellow named joseph manley who is an aid to read and maine. has not been an ally. the intro party rival, the magnetic man who has been secretary of state. >> host: also maine. >> guest: two men who had been lifelong rivals, one is out of politics and dead by 1896. the other is the dominant role in state politics and picked up manley. >> host: what is the combines vision for winning the election?
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>> guest: 1st and foremost oriented to what is in it for me. very pragmatic -- very pragmatic people. they think that can be figured out if the convention is chaotic and they get to hold the cards and make the decisions. they nominally pledge support to the front runner. benjamin harris and the discredited former president is thought of as a candidate. his becoming a dominant figure. the other part of the strategy is to get lots of sons around the country will unite state delegations and only get together at the convention no one will have a majority. we can carve up the patronage some of them thought they could be candidates.
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so governor bradley of kentucky, border state republican, not as frequently seen thinks of himself as one. senator davis of minnesota, an expert in foreign-policy is flatter enough. governor of the state of new york is put forward. he is a potentially plausible candidate, but his principal purpose is to keep every new york republican in the pocket. even if you did not like the easy boss you have a loyalty to your governor. there are couple other candidates who are potentially feel candidates the most prominent of which is william allison of iowa who is a workmanlike solid legislator who creates the interstate commerce commission and is actually a legislator who gets things done.
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but most of them are people who think they can be president but can't. the senior senator from the state of illinois, never makes it as far as the convention is put into field by the blonde boss. an interesting character. by john riley tanner the illinois republican party chairman fancies himself and does become governor. >> host: what is william mckinley out for? >> guest: out to restore prosperity. his fervent belief is that the policy of protective tariffs he had advocated in congress for a great many years is the path to prosperity.
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his focus is the american worker. he wants robust domestic markets and protection from cheap foreign labor imports. they believe he is not a defender of high tariffs for the purpose of making rich people richer. when he passes the mckinley tariff of 1890 which helps contribute to the republican defeat in the house and is remembered by many republicans is the thing that brought them defeat, in the passage of that he was constantly asking people not how much do you need to get rich but how much does your industry need in order to be properly protected from unfair foreign competition? economists agree and all likelihood the policies he advocated did not advance america's economic growth the out what it would have been otherwise, but it is hard to understand why people felt so strongly about it, and his whole vision was a nationalistic
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program of economic progress >> host: what is your path to the nomination? what hurdles to you have to jump to get there? >> guest: that is an interesting question is this becomes the 1st modern presidential primary nomination ballot. before 1896 in the parlance of the times you put your faith in the hands of your friends. you had someone on your behalf move around the country wasted far away from it as possible, get your state of a couple other states and friends around the country to rally to your cause but expected to go into the convention with a generalized sense there was a front runner and other candidates and then through this process someone emerged , became people's 2nd choice.
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and eventually everyone settled around making deals. in 1888 benjamin harris received a nomination after james g blaine, the front runner who is literally at andrew carnegie's castle in scotland and on a sunday morning is reiterated that he is not a candidate and benjamin harrison becomes the front runner. he was born in ohio and is a former senator from the state of indiana and his agent makes a deal. seemingly makes a deal with thomas collier plat that in return for the combine support that will be made secretary of treasury and receive all the customhouse patronage, the most valuable office in the country was the head of the customhouse, and this would ostensibly be his choice and all the patronage jobs connected
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would be connected to plat. which could make him not only the secretary of treasury but the next president. >> the process we now have which begins in iowa in january, new hampshire in february, it is starts before that, you are saying before 1896 it is all telescope at the convention. >> guest: and if you have got a favorite son, they gather together and unite behind him and instruct either by formally saying we are all for fill in the blank or by simply saying we are sending a delegation composed of sherman schism going to organize for the primary. i'm going to identify it for
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my life said of the appliances. they wanted to become my agent. the object of it is systematically organize dominated by mckinley men who would not be concerned with who is on the delegation. the for him. does not pick and choose who will be on the delegation but he picks people to embolden and authorize to organize the effort that culminates in a victory at the state convention, and he begins the process early. most of the time the maneuvering begins late in the year before the election it happened in late 1895. more likely in early 1896.
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but hebut he begins it. you could make the argument because the country during the 1894 campaign traveling the country to spread his message of protectionism but he immediately begins in early 1895 to systematically organize and does so by going on vacation. mark hanna has a place in palm beach. misunderstood. we will come back to that later. a close friend of mckinley. iron monger and coal magnet from cleveland ohio. and they had a good distribution company in southeastern ohio and moved to cleveland.
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he has a mind for business and he starts out the bottom working as a clerk, working as a delivery man but he rises for the management of his family's farm and when he marries into a wealthier family and cleveland takes over his father-in-law's farm only financial failure that he ever said was is a young man almost loses everything. forced to sell at a d+ to high school classmate. >> host: how did he and mckinley hook up? >> guest: they meet in 1876. it is involved in a very weird thing.
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getting ready to make his 1st run. the minors dispute in eastern star county. the minors go on strike. they burn mines and be badly the superintendent of one of the mines in their own by the company the mark and i has. the rest and try them and no one can be found to defend them. stepping forward in defending the minors and they dissolve one of them off. and then when they proceed to give him a $120 fee which is a big sum of money he refuses to see and contributed to the relief fund. starting to create a lifelong reputation as a friend of the working man while the company that is pursuing charges owned by hannah callahan is sitting
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in the courtroom. he has hired the best law firm and we have this young lawyer who has been practicing law for basically ten or 11 years. but there is no recollection of it because he is suffering from an attack of the hives and is lathered up with sulfur ointment and is so hobbled they can only walk with a cane and is in constant pain and has no memory of meeting william mckinley. they come together eight years later at the ohio state republican convention and mckinley over his objections is arrested as a delegate. he does not want to go to the national convention. hannah is worth senator john sherman of ohio. mckinley does not want to opposes chief. over his objection he is sent to the national
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convention. >> first to encounter. >> in 1888 they go back to the republican national convention and have a little bit of a semi- rivalry going a 3rd ohio character has entered the scene, joseph p fire alarm foraker who runs for governor in 1885 and is defeated and gets elected in 1887. ..
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so when word gets out that there is a movement to draft him, he is sitting in a hotel room and he grabs an unused telegraph slip, write the comment on it, as it shares with anna says if this continues this is what i'm going to say. the next day a a delegate -- they start voting and a delegate from connecticut -- the texan says the delegation is ready and
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when this delegate from connecticut stands up and votes for mckinley rises on the floor, stance on the floor and then recites what he has written on the telegram which is, he does not want any want to consider him for presidency because he is committed by the convention of republicans in ohio and by his heart for john sherman for president. this would be a blight on his personal character. this is astonishing to anna. this is this is a man who could have swept the convention by standing aside and letting things go his way because clearly a lot of people second choice for president. yet he says no. that he spent the next two days when the content convention is in recess, whenever he hears
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something is going to happen he shows up and says that no, don't do this. i would rather cut off my right arm them be the nominee of the party. i would deserve to lose. he wakes up in the middle of the night on sunday night and here's the next group some ohio delegates about how they're going to get him nominated. in his nightclothes and he says stop it, don't do it. anna is blown away by this willingness of him to step away from power. he is passionate about it. it it is a matter of character. he had committed to sherman and nothing would stand in the way. >> host: mckinley has another very important assistant ally from chicago. >> guest: well he is actually born in ohio, the graduation law school in cincinnati and heads west to make his living. mckinley meets him sometime
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early in 1894 when dawes come to visit him in clumps ohio. if you run for president i want to help you. they. they meet again in october of 1894 when mckinley stops in lincoln nebraska for a campaign stop in the midterm. he sees a mckinley a man who is separate and apart from the politics. mckinley is a man of enormous integrity. he is a man who man who is looking to the future. he is a key picker of talent. he is -- dawes who is a reformer like this. dawes dawes is a young lawyer in lincoln, nebraska nebraska has taken on the railroads which he thinks are charging farmers to high price to get their goods to market. so he is a reformed republican and he likes reformed republicans like inlay. mckinley he practice office in
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the same small office building as a lawyer five years older than him. members of the men's debate and reading club called the roundtable, the two of them had lunch with the rotc instructor at the university of nebraska, a west point lieutenant named john j persian. dawes makes money in real estate banking deals and he decides he will become an entrepreneur and move to chicago. he does does that in january of 1895. what he is going to do is by gas utilities, get economies and make a lot of money. >> host: so mckinley has a new strategy for winning the nomination. he has this capable supporters, where does he want to take the party? >> guest: mckinley has begun to demonstrate is a different kind
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of republican. the republican is a party white anglo-saxon. he realized our demography is becoming vastly different. because of relatively fewer immigrants from england, scotland, wales, ireland, and germany. more from scandinavia, central central and eastern europe, we have portuguese, we have spanish tanners, i tell you craftsman's, ukrainian tailors, ukrainian tailors, the country is becoming very diverse demographically. mckinley recognizes that. many many people are catholic. the republican party has an inside a bias against catholics. it is the largest pressure group in the country which is an anti- catholic, anti- immigrant group founded in clinton, iowa. it
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passes a passes a scorecard out for the republicans for candidate and one of the questions is are they under the influence of the papal power. they are big. it's 13 million members. they are powerful. >> host: the biggest catholic group was irish catholic who had been democrats. >> guest: for a long time. another group some some german catholics and some polish catholics. they hated the catholics. in 1891 he's getting ready to run for reelection for the governor of ohio. mckinley has won by 20 some of thousand votes in ohio in 1891. there 60 some thousand members of the apa in ohio. the column up, on a friday and say there to prison guards you have to fire them, there catholic. they're working for the state,
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we found out there catholic and you need to fire them and replace them with protestants. we will call you back on monday. the call back on mende and mckinley said the men keep their jobs. as a result the apa drops mckinley from the ballot. they sent out instructions all the members and asked them to leave the governor's race blank. yet he wins by a bigger majority. in part because catholics take notice of it and to members of the catholic hierarchy in ohio traveled the state to parishes and say governor mckinley defended the job of two catholics. >> host: the republican party needs catholics and immigrants partly because they have lost it big chunk of the race. >> guest: that's correct. in the south of votes are black republicans and white republicans are being stolen by fraud, deception, or violence. in 1896 we had four states that had a black majority adult male population.
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the emmys black several voting in the south 95-five yet mckinley does this mainly in the teens and low 20s and each of those states. that's because you you take a look at the turnout in the north is 88%, 75, 88% in some states. in the south it runs in the mid- 30s. the reason is because essentially from 1873 or four on there's a systematic effort to wipe out the black voting south. >> host: they said the ku klux klan would be an armed auxiliary >> guest: they were. it wasn't just the client there is also groups in north carolina and south carolina they were redshirts in order to hide any blood. there's no election that goes by without violence being perpetrated on a large scale, still tar first understand today on black voters in the cell. people getting routinely murdered for the simple exercise. >> host: was there any pushback
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against this nationally? >> guest: the there is an effort that mckinley champion, efforts to take away the remaining federal protections in the 1880s and mckinley was a strong opponent of it. after the republicans win the white house in 1888 henry lisa passing bill to provide perfections, they label at the force bill and it was defeated in the senate by a combination of republicans in the west who favored the bill but want to hold it hostage for legislation to create a free -- seven democrats. >> host: now let's turn to the democratic party. who is contending for that now. >> guest: the nomination in 1896 starts in 1893 because as the economy deepens cleveland stands
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for the gold standard by cutting deals with wall street. basically bailout the united states by buying bonds and transferring gold to the united states treasury. this makes him enormously unpopular the democratic party which has a large movement whose angry at the concentration of an food fueled by the demand for free and on limited coin. >> host: even though cleveland and is in a second term he can run again. >> guest: the cleveland democrats in cleveland will run again now, he does not want to. some early point in the process he decides not to. no later than 1895 but he does not make that clear so there is no one allowed to emerge on that side because everyone is thinking well obama gold democratic cleveland will run. democratic front runner for
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president is richer park bland of missouri. he enters congress and early 70s and become the leading proponent of free silver this inflationary current. >> host: wise it inflationary? >> guest: the idea would be that rather than setting as we do now a target for how we will expand the money supply by this percent, instead with free and unlimited coin would save you have a silver mine anywhere in the world you can show up at a u.s. mint internet silver over and you'll be paid 1 dollar and gold for every 16 units of silver, 16 to one. that will be coined and made into money and circulated. now, the problem was the value of gold and silver fluctuated. at the time we're talking and up until the 1896 the value of silver, dollars worth of gold would buy you $2 worth of
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silver. another another words each dollar of silver was worth 52 cents in gold. so if you created a silver dollar it would have half the value it a goal dollar. obviously bad money chases on good people. so hold onto the golden circulate circulates over and we would have inflation. >> host: but that is not bad for debtors. >> guest: not bad for debtors. the debtors in america in the 1890s are southern farmers who by and large, except for except for the big plantation owners or sharecroppers. what they do is tell their land but they do not have any money so they go to the furnishing merchant at the beginning of the season and he gives you all you need to live on and all you need to put out your crop and then you bring in the crop in the fall and he figures the value of an surprise, surprise, surprise, the value of your crop is less than the money he let you. so, another words each year you
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are getting a dollars deeper in debt. in the midwest, the farms in the medical are more lucrative. many of them have mortgages. they're held by specialized companies or insurance companies, not by the normal banks and so forth. by the by special private banks, insurance companies or mortgage companies. while rented deflationary. the interest rate being charged by the mortgage companies are between eight and 14%. so you talk about people who are hard-pressed. it's the people who have a mortgage, particularly in particularly in the south where the midwest. >> host: so you have gold faction which is led by the incumbent president, not clear what is going to happen what he's going to do when you have
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the champion of the silver force. tell us what happens at the democratic convention. >> guest: in the run-up to the democratic convention you have the state conventions of the silver democrats decide will not settle on a candidate. will actively does discourage anyone from being a candidate. will focus on two things, one it in each state to go on record in favor the free and unlimited coin is silver and refute -- so that when we get to the national convention the democratic rules are it takes a majority to write the platform, two thirds thirds to dominate the kind of it. the silverman say we want to get a silver platform and force the candidate, whoever he he is to agree to that platform. we will never get to two thirds at the convention. will not be able to nominate a true silverman about we want to bind it to a silver platform. they succeed beyond their expectation. within the time the democratic commits and opens up they are within a whisper of getting two thirds. what stands in the way is an extraordinary pair of victories in michigan and minnesota. at the last minute, cleveland
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prevails upon political friends and his postmaster general in michigan and the former democratic man and minnesota step forward and make efforts to keep the delegations from falling to the silver heads. both of the states are expected to go silver both end up going gold. >> host: close enough to two thirds so why doesn't graham walk into it. >> guest: because the goldman say we have more than one third of the delegates so what we're going to do is hold onto the one third and use of her power and influence to pick between the two silverman the less objective silverman. this is all pretty conventional for the times because we shop at the convention, make a deal, and up and up on multiple ballots and settle the issue. they don't however, count on william jennings bryan, or
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powell who conceives themselves as a presidential candidate. he is 3636 years old, the youngest man ever nominated by either major political party for president, to this day. is also the only candidate i can find who thinks of himself as a candidate but nobody else does the day before he is nominated as a candidate. >> host: how does he swing it. >> guest: they go to the convention and the two front runners on the democratic set our silver dick bland of missouri and uncle horace boys of iowa. but there is a big battle over the platform. everybody knows the platform issue is settled. there's an overwhelming majority of silverman at the convention. it's just gonna be how many votes does each like and how does the admin play out. for the last stand of the goldman convention brian is chosen as the man in charge of
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closing the debate on the floor. it is completely by accident. their six accidents that lead up to his being selected. any one of which would've gone a different gone a different direction he would not have been there. these happen in the book and i talk about it. he was in charge of silverman's close in the fight. he ends up being the concluding speaker by one of the accident. he is generally thought to be the opening guy. the other person is given a talk on this is this ben tillman of south carolina who wants to be the closer. but senator hillary new york is the leader of the gold forces objects because he knows if tillman close and he will spend his entire time kick in hell around so he'll objects. so they fight over the issue of how much time each will have to close and like the final argument. till wants the longer time to speak so he takes up opening
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argument is the closing 20 minutes would supposed to be 30 minutes but gets caught to 20 over to william jennings bryan. the final accident accident occurs just before brian is ready to speak, that is while the goldman are closing, silver man opens the debate, gold man speaks,. what happens is a second gold man stands up, tillman's speech is so disgraceful, he brings up the civil war again. he insults every northern democrat, he excretes cleveland calls the sectional argument and senator jones of arkansas says why were the color of the south during the civil war, this this is not a sectional argument this is an argument of mankind. it is national in nature. for one brief moment the silverman and the goldman stand together and basically cheering
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jones on making his national argument because they hate ben tillman so much. but finally what happens is the goldman are running out of time. that one more speaker to give the speech. he is completing is completing about not having enough time. brian overhears and says why don't we give each site ten more minutes. what happens is ryan gets a 30 minute speech. a30 minute speech is a brilliant piece of work that he delivers without a single note. several days before he had a debate in nebraska and he gives the gold speech eyewitness finishes giving the speech he says you shall not press down on the proud mankind across of thorns. he dabbles his hands down the side of his hand and you shall
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not crucified hand mankind and he finishes in its complete silence. he drops his hand in steps back. he thinks he's tanked. the atlanta constitution says the hall was silence for a few minutes it was held in fearful silence for a few more minutes and then the place explodes. men and women jumped their feet, feet, stand on chairs, screen, cheer, waive anything, the demonstration ensues was the great marble political convention. it was this obscure nebraska, very few people think is a candidate in on things is a serious candidate makes him the nominee the next day. >> host: so this sounds like he is coming out of the democratic convention with powerful moment on. , how does mckinley counter
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this? >> guest: he does not initially. he and anna go on the front porch and say the democrats really screw this up they nominated a complete buffoon and were going to win it. there is talk talking about how he's going to take a vacation on his yet and doesn't expect to return before the first of august and no campaign activity need to begin till september. this is july. over the next several weeks mckinley was in charge of his campaign the headquarters and should go and hannah travels to the east to try to conciliate the machine republicans to mckinley and try to organize and run a campaign in the state parties begin to do these campuses that they undertook in that era and begin to get the bad news that they are way behind. >> host: a campuses why, like a pole? >> guest: it's more than that.
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it's mind-boggling. if you conducted a canvas, let's say iowa guy there is mcmillan, he conducted a canvas in july and august which means every precinct in iowa had a chairman who ascertain the attitude of every single voter in their precinct, reported to the county and state, so you had not just simply poll of 800 to 1300 islands, chosen by random. you had a poll of every single i went that precinct chairman was responsible for figuring out. republican suddenly discovered that 25 or 30% of their voters had left them in brian's camp. that would've been a huge loss in the industrial midwest. this awakens mckinley along with some keen advice from a man man who does not like it much. benjamin harrison, he has a
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problem. by an mid august and preparing his speech to the acceptance of the republican nomination in late august she is finally made the decision, better do something about confronting the issue. he wanted to straddle it, when, when it, turn away from it, downplay, his tone people don't worry about it this free silver thing is going to dissipate. in a few weeks he calls his friend in a month it will not be talking about this issue. and his friend says in a month they will not be talking about anything else. in august he figures it out. he spends two thirds of us except in speech talking about free silver. >> host: he is against free silver his for gold. >> guest: he's for gold but he's been as straddle or congress. one of the first was he makes in 1878 is for the passage of the allison silver act witchery institutes the mid- insufficient
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for the free silverman but good for the goal. he tried to straddle it throughout the 18 eighties. he has a lot of farmers in his district. a district. a lot of people with small-town merchants who think there is too little money. >> host: so sudden conviction now. >> guest: now, it's a necessity. he does believe in honest money. he does oppose free silver. like our controversial questions politicians like to avoid them. they like to emphasize things that unifies people. unified laborers who worked in the mines and root gathers and sheep men who tended to be democrat. this was an issue that brought the kind of people into the republican can't. whereas free silver split the camp. at the republican at the republican convention all of the western states walk out. montana, utah, nevada, idaho, colorado, they'll, they'll walk out of the convention.
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one of mckinley strongest southern supporter, the only republican senator of north carolina walks out because of the free silver issue. it has split the republican party and as result mckinley wants to stay away from it. he's afraid he needs the vote of silver republicans in order to win. he finally realizes he can't avoid the issue and late august he tackles the issue but it takes him two or three weeks to settle on the right language. he does so with the help of the largest labor union in america. he begins to describe why it's important to a working man to have a currency backed by gold rather than a currency backed by silver. >> host: so we have our two nominees into positions, how
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does each man campaign? how does mckinley campaign how does brian? spee2 brian has one probably needs to deal with witches he has gone the support of the populist party but their price was they nominated their own vice president so he has this complicated problem of somehow conciliate the populace. they they have a million votes in 1892, he wants to take the democrats who voted for cleveland put them with the populace who voted for general weaver and thereby sink the republic. he now has a democratic running mate and a populist running mate. he has to finesse the issue of how to get that populist running mate off the ticket and battleground states where i cannot afford the vote to be split. he decides he will storm the country in a fashion that is not been done before. he will get on the train, campaign the country, has 33 major trips he makes across the country. this is the first time is ever happen.
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there's been occasions in which a candidate michael on the road to a major ga are or a big gathering of some sort but literally number of times they spoke on the road to less than one dozen. there's been a sort of a front porch campaign in 1888 the jimmy harrison basically had about 80 speeches he had to visiting delegations over a four-month period. it was an amazing testament to his courage most days, until october 7 and august and september, until october seventh, his generally, he is generally making his own train reservation, riding in a common car grab a sandwich at a depot
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someplace, and hoping that when he got to the end of the line someone would pick them up up and he would have a hotel reservation. sometimes he has a private car he makes a chip through kentucky, tennessee, virginia and up to washington d.c. and he has a private railcar but sometimes he's just writing -- young senator for north carolina senator jones of our says we have to have a private plane car. we took a late train to baltimore because they wanted him to be somewhere at 8:00 o'clock in the morning. we waited until 2:00 a.m. to switch trains. got him on the train and he doesn't catch and express, we caught a, we caught a little train and there's a handful of people there. you're going to kill him if you keep doing this to them. if you have a private car he can fall sleep in the car, he moved on tran can pick him up in the
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middle of the night he can wake up refreshed and have a place where he can have us close, washes face. >> host: so he is going everywhere, what is mckinley do. >> guest: well mckinley is being pressed by hannah to go on the road. once panic sets in its unstoppable. he says we have a race on her hands and keeps pressuring mckinley to go on the road. mckinley says look, i can't do that. if i go on the road, he will get on a trapeze and i will have to mimic him. if i go on the road, i road, i've been on the road before, i know what it's like hannah said his friends to go talk and finally mckinley says i have to think before i speak, so what happens is people are showing up in groups so somebody and i think that somebody is mckinley says let's make that my
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routine. only let's get it organized. so people don't show up on my doorstep and say were here to see you. set it up so we know who's coming us invite those that we want to have come. such as those that volunteer to come. if it's a critical voter grit from a critical state let's know that they are coming, have ascended what they want to say in advance we can edit it let's have remarks each time, will take them under an arched to the courthouse square, will have them form up there, we'll have bands and entertainment to keep them occupied when the moment comes when i finished meeting with the last delegation they can then come on the lawn will have an organized program. all think them for coming to five time i shake everybody's hand and log onto the next group.
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this becomes campaigning on an industrial scale. 750,000 people come to canton ohio. on some weekend a hundred thousand people come. they show up at the station they go to townsquare women go shopping men pick up cigars, merchants do well in towel, sometimes they take special groups and speed them have appropriate drinks for the men if you're dry you get a couple coffee and a sandwich, they come through its industrial and scale he knows exactly what he wants to say the messages tailored to that audience and repeated by them when they go home. lysol the major and here's what he said. >> host: so which of these two men to think address more people? >> guest: i'm convinced that brian sees more people. the estimate is two to 3 million people. he would go everywhere there are
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people but he attracted spectators. mckinley attracted supporters. it was targeted. he created an army, his campaign was based on this principle we want to create an army of people who will serve as our surrogates and advocate. they organized everybody, had groups for blacks, germans, women because some women could vote in western states, they organized traveling salesman as these were people who traveled widely, spoke well a new lots of people. lots of young men were falling into it. it was great excitement. so tell us what happens on election day. >> guest: mckinley wins the northeast there's not a single county in the northeast that goes for brian. mckinley went 75% of the vote. takes all the critical

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