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tv   Book Discussion on Prince of Darkness  CSPAN  December 27, 2015 12:46am-2:02am EST

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systems themselves tolerate? >> no. they cannot. it is a cascading effect that cadence bread thrown out the entire credit. >> we have to leave it there. "lights out". [applause]
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and. [inaudible conversations] please silence europe still funds are indeed other devices that may disrupt. c-span is here to fill the lecture so please be aware of your last question he will be filled please wait
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until the microphone comes to you before asking. the library offers events like the one you will hear tonight with the electronic resources sant but we just kicked off our aid will appeal and you already said to date to be issued. there is still tied. but it is my pleasure to welcome tonight's speaker coming from australia where he is a professor of history at the university of african-american history and history of the york city. gambling in harlem to
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discovery african american in history and his most recent book the first black millionaire. is puzzling and disappearance and death and excellent job to job of the supplemental details of other african american and of the era. braddish shareholder of the new york society library received his share in the team 56 please join me to welcome shade white to the podium. [applause] >> the queue for turning up. i stated imperfect accent less a english.
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>> through a consortium new york purchase he would be a barber for few days before he could get back to the earth, then your head
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because the underwriting of america's trade with haiti the first black newspaper he did have bolted because he wasn't ready the republic. been he dead and i wish and to cathead and in view of meekly grow we get the time. eventually he does establish himself to get ahead and and they talk to one another in part because of jeremiad unit to specialize to descanted to a the bottom of
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but he has established himself did the eric city borough. he does every businessman does in 1936. the eric city is undergoing a real estate frenzy. prices are going, they are skyrocketing everywhere. the only time in its to buy
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real estate but then perhaps that the read dash out the house. so he is still weak longs on real estate nt is two or three weeks that is the top of the real-estate market.
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so for the next five years extending off creditors. one of thousands of new yorkers on the verge of bankruptcy. and. >> he is black and a pioneer deal the black man doing this. and if you think about the first black baseball player in the major leagues, per
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qdoba e is now ready to tell him how things operate. what is interesting is hamilton knows his way around. and knows his way around wall street. he declares himself bankrupt but then he knows their salt so in this is his real-estate paying $35,000. it is worth the al lot less now. he goes to the bankrupt side and buys a back at $20. they gripped people and
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where they are sold. people organized amongst themselves and clearly talks to make sure nobody drives up the price and buys it back. he then hits the stock exchange and a big way. he did buy shares but second it is of the back of working on this stock exchange. but you have to be sharper and quicker than everyone else. and if you hit hamilton he would hit you back with interest.
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he is not a backward step being individual. so it will pass as a resolution and one that buys or sells shares will be expelled. that the insurance company and the stock exchange both flipped a coin a black man on jeremiah hamilton but it could become incidence. discrimination is another level playing field. but on either hand more interested in the color of money they and his skin. his innovative the way he deals with the stock exchange. he forms a pool that is a
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similar version of a hedge fund that people put in money and we use it to borrow more money then takes an aggressive position so we have prompted the yorkers trustee in the attachment of a black man as to what stocks will rooted steamship companies one of the customers and up serving him explanation of why hedge funds deal with multibillion there's.
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he kept changing his mind. and soon the company to break a receiver henry distributed to the shareholders. and does it with the excess city transit company which is with cornelius vanderbilt there is a intrastate the obituary that says there is one person and that he respected that was terribly in hamilton. so in the 1840's and '50's
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jerba in hamilton is a prominent man. the first black millionaire. one of my favorite images. >> gave master of the universe but. . .
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sort of treasure. it's in this time as well that he buys his share in the new york society library in 1956, and again, in in the book i look at the book, over the next 20 years, he borrowed 254 books from the new york society library. this must be the first extensive reading list of an african-american.
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basically in this country. there was an infantry of his own library. inventory of his own library. in the book i have several pages looking at the sort of stuff he was borrowing from this place. in 1963, perhaps new york worst ever week in its existence, i suppose. he's living on east 29th street. a mob comes into the street, and irish mob, chanting 68, 68, 68 which is the number of his house. they come to his house and kicked the basement door in and raced up the stairs. a were confronted by his wife. he married a white woman. often you think of black men and
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white women, you think of it being a transient relationship of some sort, they were married 40 years and had ten children. he, in 1937, when he was 30, he met her and she was 14 and she was pregnant when she was 14. anyway in 1963, she stands at the top of the stairs and said what you want, what can i do for you? they said, we want your husband. we are going to hang him from the lamp post outside the house. but, he's not an idiot and he hightailed it out the back fence while she was left holding the fort. he died in 75. he traveled. he went to san francisco and traveled to paris and he's in paris a couple of days before
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the siege starts when the army is coming down in 1970. it's one of those people who turn up in interesting places. with the new york sun newspaper, one of the most famous newspapers, founder of new york son, benjamin day was his best friend. he publishes articles in the new york sun, jeremiah hamilton does. anyway he eventually died in 1975. what's his importance? why should anyone care? the interesting thing about this guy, i hope i've conveyed that he's a prominent individual of sorts and deserving of some sort of recognition. he's been absolutely, totally and utterly erased from american history. he's mentioned in print four times since 1900 but three of those four times are wrong.
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one of them the historian thought that he was white and went to the west indies and got a suntan and made the natives think he was black. so he's been totally erased. he had nothing whatsoever to do with african americans in new york city. they disdained him and he disdained them. he was never going to be remembered as part of the heroic african-american struggle in new york city so he sort of falls between the cracks and gets totally ignored. as well as what i'm interested in is what he tells us about african-americans and new york city in the 19th century. that's really a large part of what the book is about.
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trying to look at race relations and youth by looking at this person who was associating with the whites, but was not white. he was being treated like a black man but had nothing whatsoever to do with the black men. in the 30s and 40s they are inventing's' education which will be exported to the south later on. so what was it like for this man to walk the streets of new york. that's the type of question i try to get out in the book. i'm actually going to read for a couple paragraphs. i will try to make that very same point. jeremiah hamilton's unique position in new york presents an opportunity for coming to a new understanding of the way the 19th century city works. he offers a way to reconsider
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subjects that are seen without too much thought as being quintessentially white. totally segregated from the african-american past. this is the case with wall street, the stock exchange in the great fire. it is also true of the press revolution of the 1830s and many other topics. far too often, they treat it as if white segregationists succeeded and they are removed from everyone else. in effect, african-americans become segregated for a second time in the telling of their history. easily marginalized from the main american story, relegated to the footnotes. hamilton trampled all over such black-and-white distinctions. anyone telling his story today must be similarly disdainful of racial chivalrous. in the end it is hamilton who stands alone in the limelight. his was a dramatic life.
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cinematic and its vividness. it included incidents of daring doom, trial trial that was a talk of the town and more than the occasional angry confrontation of business ethics or his lack of them. in all of this, he never took one backward step. he was not a forgiving man. if you crossed them, he would return the favor and always kept his interest. the prince of darkness behaved in such a fashion. he often rubbed people the wrong way though he never seem to care too much. he could also be charming. a wise person did not cross him very far at all. he learned that the books should be balanced in accounts, for the most part settled in the lot
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treated as something to be taken advantage of or gone around. this african-american was at home in courtroom or in east waterfront. new york society library or domenico's. he could tell you which stocks were good by pickup it deal to sell a refitted steamboat to cuba and arranges scuttle over a ship. most remarkable of all, he was a black black man who became rich while living out the american nightmare of race. the prince of darkness was an extraordinary figure. i have lived with him now for too many years. far telling of the untold story of hamilton, the first black millionaire, it starts in 1938.
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i find him a fascinating character. will be surprised to know that i think someone should make a film about jeremiah hamilton. a couple months ago there was an article in the new yorker about chris rock. they said he had been trying to make a film. as any of you who know the history of matt turner and what has happened to him, the that film is never going to be made. there's too much baggage. i think other people should think about making a film about something like jeremiah hamilton. they tend to either be saints or sinners. he is someone who was a sinner but no more then than
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vanderbilt. he was just as ruthless as they were. it's not a knife or an accept that he uses, it's actually legal documents and reading the fine print that enables this person to get ahead so in a way he is a new type of sinner. >> i hope that someday someone makes a film of him just so jeremiah hamilton can actually have the moment in time that i think he deserves. thank you very much [applause]. does anyone have any questions. >> where did he come from?
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this is an obviously free black man coming to new york which was a copperhead city with very close relations to the south. where did he get his education? why did he come there? >> there are two stories about where he comes from. in the book i balance both of them. one is that he comes from the caribbean. his father and mother came from port-au-prince. so haiti, cuba, the two become intermixed because of the revolution and migrants and currents of the time. the other story say he comes from richmond virginia. as i was writing the book, depending on what part i was researching, i would bounce back between the two. in the end, i think probably he came from the caribbean though i think he may have stopped in
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richmond along the way. that's having your cake and eating it. you asked about his education as well. according to one of his obituaries, he had a very good education school education where he came from. that particularly particular obituary -- he had an education and i think it was the sort of education that was moderately inspiring. because he reads throughout his life. i think in the 40s when he goes bankrupt, he has 22 volumes in his library that are inventoried.
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a couple volumes of bacon's writings and encyclopedia type of thing. then when he is a member here, he also is reading hobbs more bacon, more wallenberg and more, he does read a few novels as well. so from 1856 onward, he, i don't know if you physically read the books that he borrowed from here but you tend to think somebody who borrows 250 books is probably reading them. it's not for show on the coffee table type of thing. so i think there's a certain element to him. he didn't go to or anything like that. >> did he die rich? >> when he died there is about
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100 notices and newspapers from california to maine that all have the same thing, that he was the richest colored man in america and he was worth $2 million. he may well have been, but the money doesn't last. it seems to have supported many of his children who didn't marry or have kids. they seem to have done not that much. he had the house on east 29th street. he owned three houses on grant street. he probably had cash on hand in shares but they weren't listed in the will when he died.
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so anyway, yes he was wall street's first black millionaire. he was one of the very early americans to have the term millionaire which is sort of an invention of the 19th century. it becomes them american word rather than a british word. so in the 1830s the term is becoming more common. he was first called the black millionaire in 51 or 52. he is actually one of the earliest americans but to be called millionaire. >> did you determine the racial makeup of his servants in his new jersey house or his new york house? >> he has, in his will, he
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leaves money to irish girls who were servants in his house for 20 or 30 years. in the census when he is in new jersey, he seems to have, there seems to have been laborers living very close to the estate and i think they were probably working on the estate for him. girls, hishousehold householdsh servants. as an insulting term like an egg grow millionaire by a newspaper? >> they use a not really endearing term. he's called nigbor hamilton. people like benjamin day, even people who trash him, like bennett who is one of the great
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american writers. he's a fascinating, brilliant, difficult man, but even he has to admit that there's something there to this guy. benjamin day, as i said said before, he's his best friend and day rates were positively about him. it's kinda like getting old you lose names. the sun newspaper who was benjamin day's brother-in-law, attacked him but then that led, and that was in part because moses, someone moses. >> the editor of the proprietor of the newspaper, they end up
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having benjamin day as his brother-in-law and he sells the newspaper to his brother-in-law and day later on says it was the stupidest thing he ever did. the two fallout and then they have a big arrival and it hinges on jeremiah hamilton because the editor of the sun newspaper says , warned him not to hang around with this black man. so benjamin day is forced to sue for libel and it hinges on the character of jeremiah hamilton and also whether he is a negro or not. there's a trial down on center street that is the talk of the town. everyone turns up and it hinges
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on -- and various witnesses get into the box and say he is this reputable, i know he's black because i have seen him with his week off. he wears a wig for 40 years and that proves he is black because he has a shaved head underneath. then after one of these justices got out of the witness box, hamilton can take it no longer and he just stands up and says the only reason he testified against me was he came into wall street to borrow money from me and i wouldn't lend him money. the judge dismisses for the day and as that justice who testified and they walk out of the court, they start yelling at one another and the justice hits
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hamilton with a cane, hamilton, here comes the adding 10% he grabs the whole lump of wooden swings at the justices had and they end up in a brawl in the street and benjamin day, jeremiah hamilton and his brother-in-law both end up getting arrested. i'd been reading new york newspapers and cold cases for 35 years. i had never seen anything like that occurring in a courtroom. the whole thing hinged on this testimony as to whether he was black or not. also to his character. [inaudible] >> his one reference to color was his skin and he was described as dark and where that
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put someone on the color spectrum, i don't know. [inaudible] [laughter] >> i suppose it depends on whether you're defining stuff on skin color or what the hell you're using, but i always found americans on race interesting. >> obviously you found sources for your book. did he keep any notes himself? >> i would kill to have had. >> one of the interesting things about writing this book, book, if you go to a biography section and barnes & noble, 99.9% of books there, there's already a book on the character.
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whether it's an autobiography or what have you. in this case there is absolutely nothing. when you get to page two of the book, you have already got the most facts about hamilton, accumulated on a printed page anywhere ever. so the book is based on, i found something like 65 court cases that he's a serial litigant. i also found newspaper stuff. that means i have to craft a book i can't do that. that makes the actual writing of the book very difficult. perhaps too difficult for amazon readers who have found it very dry and written like a textbook. i don't know if amazon readers realize how wounding to the author such comments are.
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it's actually very difficult to write and hold your readers interest for 300 and some pages when i i have got a couple of words from him in court cases and when he's testifying here and there, but i've got nothing you no, he doesn't sit down and write that it's terrible that new yorkers treat me so horribly when i'm on trial. it's unfortunate. i would love to have had ten minutes to sit down with him and ask him a few questions. [inaudible] >> no i forgot about it. when he arrived here in 1835, he shaved his head and he has a long black flowing wig. that was commented on repeatedly
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by people so that when the name of that newspaper editor whom i can't remember when they call him counterfeit, a counterfeit, one of the things he's talking about is the wig. the wig and the hair is seen as being more important than skin color in trying to work out whether someone is black or not. so when he died in 1975 his obituary talks about a high squeaky voice and a long flowing black wig. there are no pictures of him. so if you're actually looking it up on the internet you'll find a few people who have piggybacked on me and there was not a wikipedia entry. there are various pieces like that and there are pictures attached to it.
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pictures of jeremiah j hamilton who was a black legislator in texas at the end of the 19 century. there is no image of hamilton that i've managed to find and all my pursuits. >> just as a point of reference, you didn't say how he died. >> pneumonia. he was packing up to go to saratoga. two days later he was dead. pneumonia was the story in the newspaper and on the death certificate. he was 67 years old. >> did you find any wedding pictures or baptismal or
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anything from his wife benchmark did he outlive his wife or did she pass after him? >> she died 28 or 29 years after him. she lived with their daughters. she was in the east 29th street house. one of the obituaries said which church he got married in but the records have no mention0#j of hm doing so. they live together as man and wife for 40 years. i actually can't, there's no actual proof. i haven't got a marriage certificate. >> and no baptismal information. >> no. there is one picture of the daughter in the book that the
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survivors of the marriage come from. she actually married a guy who came from germany and lives in france. there's a picture of her taken in france toward the back of the book. as it happens, several generations down, they went back and suddenly discovered that they had a black made in the family which they had no idea before. the woman, this woman allowed me to use the photograph and that's behind illustration in the book. >> it's a daughter of jeremiah. the wife of jeremiah hamilton comes from philadelphia. some of the early stuff about
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him suggests that her maiden name is maurice and it was supposed to be the morris of the founding fathers which would've been almost too much. it's impossible as far as i can see from looking, there is no link to them or his family. she moved up as a very young girl in the mother was in a boarding house. a boarding house/a boutique hotel rather than of boarding house. >> can you just tell us what prompted the lynching attempt and give us a little bit of background on how calming lynchings were at that time in new york. >> lynchings must be a southern thing.
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during the draft rights there were ten african-americans who were killed couple of them were cut up and hung up on lamppost. the draft rights was this sort of racial catechism in new york but there were also local scores being settled and i think that's what's going on. by looking at the court records here, i picked up testimony from people that it was about 10:00 o'clock at night and people heard people knocking on doors and whispers saying let's get them, let's bring the niggard down. then they calm and they're
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chanting 6868. they know where they're going. they're not just looking randomly for african-americans. the person who spoke to the wife on the top of the stairs said that jeremiah hamilton had done him wrong and that was never explained what that wrong was but there was something that seem to have prompted the leader and there were 20 people who burst into the house that wanted to hang him. if he had been hung, just four or five blocks over, the next day, and african-american, a disabled african-american was hold out of his house and hung up and killed in the militia comes by and says cut the body down and they put the body back
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up and he's dragged around. it's, as i said probably new york's worst week ever. >> so lynching is a fairly unusual in the north. it's more associated with the south. >> first of all, thank you so much. i am honored, i think we are all honored that you do such remarkable work. i'm very grateful and appreciative. i have two questions for you. first, did jeremiah hamilton, did he try to hide his ethnic identity outside of wall street or did he embrace it like a badge of honor? kind of like i did this in spite of or --
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>> again, a lack of evidence is quite striking. there are couple of bits of evidence about this. sometime in the 1840s or the 1850s, a prominent merchant or broker was route walking down the street and hamilton confronts him in the street and says i hear you called me knicker. his name was also often written as knicker hamilton. he said yes, that's true. no i'm sorry, he said yes you are. this is told to us by a person who wrote a memoir in 1896. he's telling this and hamilton is getting his, what i try to do in the book is read it.
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the term knicker is being invented, in part by new yorkers. it's used earlier than that. it takes off and it becomes a way of shoving blacks off to the side. so i read, against the grain, this account and he's not at a loss for words. he's just refusing to enter into the discourse in a way. i think you can read the comments. i think you can read this account does something like hamilton walking on as if he was walking over something on on the ground. the same guy also says, in a horrible way that hamilton insisted on being treated and
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arriving on the railroads and also that he basically set desegregated delmonico. other people at the time interestingly, like thomas downing is the african-american businessman who's running in oyster place down on fourth street near the intersection and he, though he fights segregation, segregation, won't allow blacks into his own oyster tower. so interestingly, i think hamilton, he just he behaved as if he was the equal to every white man and treated them that way and that included aggression. he would be aggressive to them. so i think he cavalierly disregarded the racial ideas of
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the time and walked through them. he's protected by money. he's not some poor black peddler on the street. so though he had nothing to do with blacks, he's not like downing who writes checks for the civil rights movement all the time. he had nothing else. he has to live with being a black in new york city at a time when segregation is being interviews to and invented. i think he often blindly ignored it. he walks through what many ignored, which many white new yorkers wanted him to do. >> secondly, i'm curious as to the relationship between
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mr. hamilton avoiding day, who i thought was pretty interesting gentleman, the honor of the sun, what was it that bonded these two men? was a hamilton being an entrepreneur or an achiever like mr. day was or was it something else? what was the essence? what was it that he was being so disruptive to the status quo? what made it such an enduring friendship? >> again, the sources are rare to put it mildly. i think they were two young men on the macon new york in the 1830s who came from outside of new york and were banging their heads against an establishment that put them there, nasty
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establishment that was putting them down. i think the two of them identified on those grounds. so day picks up and writes about hamilton. in that libel suit i was talking about, it's in part the horror of them being such close friends that comes out. in particular, at least 25 times, enginemen day were cited walking down the street drunk arm in arm. the issue i try to raise in the book is the impossibility of an interracial friendship between two men. the way the establishment, that libel case is the establishment actually coming down on benjamin
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day for having a black man as a friend. like interracial sex has been written about a a lot,, but i don't think anybody considers that issue of the difficulty of a black man in a white man, in this particular time period, being friends. these two men are both rich enough, a black, and a white, there's all sorts of things going on, on, but this is amongst the elite and this is where white new york was caught up by hamilton. benjamin day irritated them as well. the sun newspaper, you've
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probably got copies of it here. it's a wonderful newspaper with wonderful times. the city was just reading the newspaper and every now and again you just burst out laughing because some of the wordplay and cleverness of the way went at one another for for years. the wordplay in the cleverness of the insults, i must say makes me wonder about today's newspapers, but that's another story. [inaudible] >> which one? >> banfield.
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>> while he runs an accessory transit company and that's the same company that runs ships in nicaragua. they go up the river across the lake and down the other side. it's before the panama canal and they are prompted by the goldrush. he does what he does with all his companies. apparently, according to the court case, they didn't have -- it wasn't exactly good bookkeeping. payments were coming in and out. hamilton had shares in the transit and he sued. the company is founded in
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nicaragua but it's listed in the new york stock exchange. hamilton sues the transit company and he is imploring the judge to have a receiver put in. he loses the case. as it happens, it's like trying to read what happens in the court documents and it's often very, very difficult. it seems like something else is going on. in fact, there is suggestion that vanderbilt and hamilton were actually, that this was something funny going on. there were four mentions of hamilton and three of them are
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wrong. one of them said hamilton was on a history of stage ships in california. it said that he was married to vanderbilt's daughter which wasn't the case. it's this suggestion between links of the two that comes across in the obituaries. the thing i play around with in the book, they founded the counterfeit coin and hamilton knows that they are. my suggestion, and it's scandalous what i do because i have absolutely no proof this is the case, i actually think vanderbilt was one of them and i think there's a little link but i can't get at it. the whole book, in a way is a
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book about writing a book about someone when the sources are so very, very thin. a couple of times you will see me, if you happen to read the book, you will see me say at this point, a novelist or a film maker who could actually seize on this, or i actually say that idea about vanderbilt having standard that conspiracy in 1828 and i say if i was a filmmaker, this would be my rosebud. as in referring to citizen kane. this would be the thing i would use to dry draw out the film. but i've got no proof. the guy who won the pulitzer prize for the biography of vanderbilt, they never mention
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the sky. they never mention him. it was kind of an embarrassment and they just dismiss anything about him being involved. the touchiness of authors when someone finds things that are wrong or forgotten, it's interesting. >> we've got one question over here and one question over here. then maybe we'll close. >> okay, i know that his granddaughter, i believe recently had something on youtube, his granddaughter, were talking about, jeremiah
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hamilton. >> jeremiah hamilton's granddaughters. >> one of his relatives wrote a a book. she was endorsing it. i wonder if you had any knowledge of that or any of his family. >> i've been in touch with a the descendent of the family. they supplied the photograph of jeremiah hamilton's daughter. there's a grilled grandson who is buried out in greenwood. i don't know what you're talking about. >> the only other thing i want to ask he was one last thing. you mentioned something that i thought was incredible. this gentleman was, most blackqk
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pioneers, jackie robinson, were more polite. he seems to be the complete opposite and i'm wondering was that attitude picked up? i wonder if there was, can you give a position on that? >> i don't think jack johnson and jeremiah hamilton's paths or knowledge of one another whatever cross. jack johnson was the heavyweight champion of the world in sydney australia about 5 miles away from where i live. i used to walk past it every year as a school child. [inaudible] >> jackie robinson was made to be differential.
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he was chomping at the bit. it was obvious to anyone watching him that he wasn't very happy. there is no restraint on jeremiah hamilton. as the guy i was talking about, he jumps in front of him on the street and set i hear you've been calling me names. he confronts him over that. then, and i've been working in after an american history for 35 years, like martin luther king is a site but he's totally beyond my understanding. turning the other cheek does not part of my makeup. that's part of the reason i find hamilton appealing. he wasn't going to turn the other cheek. if somebody hits him he's going to be straight for the --dash in
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76, two white businessmen for in a dispute with him arrange to have him arrested at 11:00 o'clock at night up and blooming tail specifically so he can't raise bale which he could easily and have them spend the night in prison. about two weeks later, those two white guys are hauled out of bed at 5:00 o'clock in the morning and the bail is so high that they can't make it and they spend a couple days. again you hit him and he comes straight back at your throat. i find that you immensely appealing. cheering from the sideline. >> 1845, brokers at the new york stock exchange are not allowed to buy or sell for hamilton. what does that have to do specifically with the new york stock exchange? >> it wasn't the new york stock exchange, it was the second board or the new board on the
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stock exchange it was passed and it was personal and i have walked through the stock exchange. i have looked through newspapers and i can't find any more details than the ones i pieced together from, believe it or not, a resolution that was passed the hebrew faction arrange to have the passage of this thing put to one side and the committee to look at it and it seems to have dropped after that. as soon as they passed it, i came to the stock exchange and he thought to himself, we can't do this. so the heb room faction -- i
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think i've uncovered a lot in my research, but often people will ask questions like that and all i can say is i don't know. i can guess. that to was part in the book. >> you talk about new york city inventing jim crowe and in segregation. can you talk particularly about on public transportation and i'm thinking about the child of downey. >> new york goes from being a walking city to being a city that is all over the place and you can no longer walk around. public transport becomes more
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and more important. as segregation is being invented, you can gather this from foreigners coming the english travelers couldn't understand that class is not a factor here. you could be a really rich black man but you were treated like ordinary black men. they thought this was insane. a barber could not shave a black man if he wanted his business and that just drove travelers insane. hamilton is the european picture boy in a way. he is a wealthy black man who can't be treated like a white on public transport. so the trains and the most important one is the one that runs to third avenue, it's the harlem railroad, it's drawn by fourth horses on 27th street
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and then they use steam engines. it segregated. but the segregation isn't that enforced. so blacks travel on it. but the train company doesn't really worry about it, but every now and again they do. thomas downey is the second richest black man in new york. he gets on it train in the 40s and he's on church business. he goes up to 49th st. ne's coming back down. he gets on the train and the white conductor, several white conductors and up beating him up and then tossing him off the back of the train. downing then goes to the train
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company and he sues. he goes to the train company to identify the people there. the chairman comes down and he is a friend of downing. he is horrified when he hears the story about what his employees have done and he fires them straightaway. but downing sued. he also, when they tossed him off, they busted busted his hands. so downing said to the chairman they stuck my head out and he said go buy yourself a new one, i'll pay for. i think that's one of the interesting moments in race relations. it's not what you expect. so the case goes forward and it's a fascinating case because
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the white executives are embarrassed by the segregation and the violence that has to be used in their squirreling, but the audience watching it is against, is for segregation. so when the actual conductor in the driver come on, they say not only were we write but i would do it again. we have to segregate these people or the world is going to come to an end. there are chairs. he goes out and he's out for 23 seconds and he comes back in. it goes against thomas downing. the court wrote erupts. an optimist can see the future in the embarrassment of the white elite after the white segregation is going but for
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those poor pastors who are black and living in the new york, they are going to have to live with the crowd cheering. that's gonna be the way it will carry on until the 50s. as it happens, there's another case involving downing again 17 or 18 years later where the crowd ends up pushing, they refused to drive the car on. they end up yelling three cheers for downing. they push the carriage down the street. things on the railroad are beginning to change. >> dr. white, thank you you so much. thanks everybody for coming. [applause]. you do have books for sale in the exhibition gallery and i'm
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sure speaker would be happy to sign a copy for you. thank you. [inaudible] [inaudible conversation] >> he's a accused of conspiracy. >> here's a look at some authors recently featured on book tv "after words", our weekly interview program. factors contributing to america's health and wellness gap. nurse and new york times columnist teresa brown talked about the challenges patients face in the healthcare system.
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gilbert gault described the rise of big money in college football. in the coming weeks and afterwards, "after words", they talk about the importance of william mckinley's 1896 presidential campaign. fox news correspondent james rosen looks at former vice president dick cheney's time in the white house. in this weekend, darcy olson, president of the goldwater institute takes a critical look at the review. that pneumatic medications undergo to get approval. >> when your life hangs in the balance, when you have a terminal illness, it's about giving you the right to try to fight to save your life by accessing experimental an investigation medicine while they are understudied at the fda but before they receive the fda final greenlight. >> "after words" airs on book tv every saturday at 10:00 p.m. and
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sunday at 9:00 p.m. eastern. you can watch all previous afterword programs that book :
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