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tv   Book Discussion on From the War on Poverty to the War on Crime  CSPAN  July 18, 2016 7:00am-8:01am EDT

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[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] and i come everyone. things are joining us today. on behalf of harper books door, i am very pleased to welcome you to our friday foreign with the listed attention presenting her new will come in from the war on poverty to the war on crime, the
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making of mass incarceration in america. harvard bookstore is takes place on friday afternoons during the academic year as a way to highlight books in a wide range of scholarly fields. i next and final friday foreign featured malcolm case representing his new book on policing reform, handcuffed her to learn more about this and are many other upcoming events, visit us online at harvard.com or pick up a copy of our flyer next to the door on the way out. today's topic will include the time for questions on which we will have a book signing at this table. we have copies of "from the war on poverty to the war on crime" for sale at the registers. are please to a c-span booktv here typing today's event. when asking question you will be recorded and later the second for the microphone to come to you before asking your questions. as always, today's title is 20%
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of part of how we say thanks for buying books from harvard bookstore. or purchase support the help is series and support the bookstore. finally, a quick reminder to seven your cell phones. now, i am very pleased to introduce today's speaker, elizabeth hinton, assistant professor in the department of history and department of african and african-american studies at harvard were research focuses on poverty and racial inequality in the 20th century. she is coeditor of the book the new black history business in the second and essays have been published in the journal of american history, journal of urban history and time. today she will discuss her new book, "from the war on poverty to the war on crime." "the guardian" calls it a magisterial in history and the magazine writes and clear eyed and timely book traces the cannibalistic prison industrial calm? back to the social welfare
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program created by lyndon johnson's war and poverty. the history is heartbreaking, but it is one that affects an anonymous percentage of the country. read it and felt. we are so pleased to host the soccer here today. the straightman welcoming elizabeth hinton. -- please join me in welcoming elizabeth hinton. [applause] >> thank you for that introduction into harvard bookstore for hosting me including me as part of friday foreign series. it is an honor and privilege to be here and thank you to all of you for coming out today. it is an incredibly busy time of year, but it's overwhelming to see so many colleagues from a friend and especially students who i know are in the midst of finals. thank you for coming out here so this book is really the first historical account of national crime control policy and it traces the rise of mass
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incarceration in the united states. "the guardian" in its review calls it kind of it pre-for prehistory to the work michelle alexander has done in her groundbreaking for new jim crow and i really take that as a compliment. if the product of a labor of love in the department of justice records in the files of the kennedy johnson, nixon, ford, carter and reagan administration. when i began the project a decade ago, i had to make the case to other african-americans and historians to where we need to study crime control policy to understand development that happened in the aftermath of the civil rights movement and now in the past two years, these issues are at the forefront of national conversations and discussions and at the center of at least on the democratic side, the current political campaign. even the fact you are here to hear about the topic shows we've come over the course of the time i've done this research to a new
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moment to where we are in terms of coming to terms with these issues and consequences of policy decisions made over the past half-century in this country. the book is deeply rooted in archival documents, but today i thought i would read from the app a lot called reckoning with the war and cried. i hope you'll read the book. it provides the first narrative account of the rest of mass incarceration we have, but if you don't get to breathe the book, if you only read part of the book, i hope at least everyone will walk away with the implication that took me a decade of research to come too. i wanted to share some of these are few and we can get into conversation about the implication of the book, future directions for crime control policies are in a kind of questions about the book self. i would especially welcome questions about the ford and carter administrations because there has been a lot of focus on my work during the johnson administration rethink in the
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one poverty and rightfully so. ford and carter are important in setting up or laying groundwork for the kind of crime control and prison infrastructure that ronald reagan's death into when he took office. epilogue. reckoning with the wind cried. the putative transformation of domestic policy in the late 20th century united states followed in historical pattern in the shadow of emancipation and the national policymakers stopped at the extension of formal equality and said no criminal laws and penal systems emerged in the form of wackos and convict the same. the systematic criminalization and incarceration of greed people shaped local and state law-enforcement practices from the beginning of the reconstruction 1865 until the start of the war and crime in 1965. after the dismantling of jim crow of militarized police forces in a criminal justice apparatus capable of a threshold
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of prisoners, the development of that earlier. the churn into a markedly different approach to social control and state authority. suppressing the groups of antisocial and alienated back you poverty to fighting black youth crime for the remainder of the decade as policy makers introduce new measures and targeted urban communities. the concrete means to an access decent shelter, education and employment, poverty and crime increased during the ensuing 50 years of the law enforcement program.
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the crime control strategy federal policymakers develop come to grips with the opposite impact in the cities and neighborhoods they place under siege is one of the most disturbing ironies and has her of american domestic policy. by the time ronald reagan took office in 1981, african-americans had become vulnerable on two fronts. a struggle against one another in a struggle with the institutions and policies that federal policymakers develop to fight the war on crime. together the strategies at the core of the national law enforcement program or programs that decided the book so i hope you will learn about them in more detail. these include preemptive patrols the name to catch robberies in progress. operations that create underground economies feature natalie would save policy that criminalize generations of black youth while decriminalizing white counterparts. firearm sanctions that brought federal law enforcement authorities to the streets. career criminal unit that created an expedited criminal justice system for gang members in security program that made
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housing projects resemble detention centers. all of the season the trend towards internal violence and incarceration. the process of implementing these measures eventually gave rise to his directly to a personal network composed of punitive and social welfare is that patients with physical discourse of black criminality and pathological understandings of poverty serving as intellectual foundation. and in fact, the federal government on mobilization of the war on crime promoted a particular type of social control, one that signals the target arrest the americans and the subsequent creation of new industry to support this regime of control are not essential characteristics of domestic policy in the late 20th century. the decisions policymakers and officials and closer closer as part of a larger coalition made at the highest levels of government had a measurable consequences for low income americans in the nation. however unintended the choices
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may have been at different times and different political moments. ultimately, the bipartisan consensus of policymakers fixated on the policing of urban space and eventually removing generations of young men and women of color from their communities to live in side present. we can excuse this historical trace name that by doing so, and will continue to avoid incitement still prevent the nation from fully realizing the promise of its founding principles. until recently the devastating outcomes of the war and crime have gone relatively unnoticed but for many americans it appeared as though it discrimination ended with the civil rights movement and the united business beyond the space systems of expectation. alongside the tremendous growth over the last 50 years, a fermentable black middle-class surface and african-americans
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assume positions for the rest of black bears and 1970s to blackwell for popular consumption to the presidency barack obama. the systematic incarceration of citizens reflect to the natural order of things. the fact that some black americans had amassed substantial buffing capital do not mean historical racism and inequality has ended, which is not news to many of you in this room today. african-americans are more affluent after 1965 by the end of the 20th century with the net financial assets at the highest faith were $7448. only $448 above that of the lowest it a white american households. the black middle class has always been concentrated in the public sphere in mobility tied
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to the extent of state spending on domestic programs. celebrating the racial inclusion championed by african-american activists and their allies across the nation during black history month every year, the fact that many critical reforms of the postwar period have been negated by national crime control priorities remains unrecognized. nine years after the passage of the voting rights act, the daughter last incarceration supreme court ruled the constitutional to deny convicted felons the right to vote. states have consistently removed &-ampersand in 1970 for richardson v. ramirez decision. today nearly 6 million americans , most of the matter to serve serve sentences are deprived of the franchise. as a result of the racial disparities in american policing and criminal justice practices, an estimated one of 13 african-americans will not vote in the 2016 election due to a prior conviction.
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because of that disenfranchisement and the punitive policies behind it, the key civil rights gain has come undone. the u.s. census men that counts people who are incarcerated man's data in federal prison for his residence at the county where they are serving time. sentencing turn determine representation. although rural areas are home to minority of the u.s. population, they are home to the majority of present. i've been americans who tend to favor democrats lost representation because of how fellow disenfranchisement for rural districts tend to favor republicans gained next representation because of how the prison system works. meanwhile, has the ability remained stagnant, public schools in urban neighborhoods are more segregated today than they were before the civil rights movement. we must revisit principles of grassroots empowerment that guided the early development of
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the great society in order to begin moving towards a more equitable and just nation. the johnson administration included grass-roots representatives and organizations in the industry should a social welfare program, but the policy director proved to be fleeting. promising initiatives designed by grassroots organizations receive federal financial record during the first year of the war on poverty were increasingly required to include public officials in municipal authorities in top-level positions following the uprising in august 1965. but for community action programs are given a chance to work on a wider level and for entire communities rather than individuals from a federal makers decided to define them in such course. police forces took on a prominent role in urban life and social services in the neighborhood. one can only imagine that demanded a look like today had the bipartisan political consensus mobilized to have the
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principle of maximum feasible participation that feasible participation after the war on poverty's community action program at the same link some level of commitment as they gave to the war on crime. others sense that society was becoming unraveled in the context of civil rights and antiwar protests, federal policymakers held accountable for turmoil in instability in the wrong policy turn to deployed military raised police forces in urban neighborhoods and build more prisons instead of seeking to resolve the problems that caused the unrest in the first place. as the nixon administration that could terminate economic opportunity and increasingly partnered to produce what the law enforcement assistance administration, community involvement of the program was largely relegated to the law-enforcement realm. even within the crime control apparatus, only 2% of the law-enforcement assistance administration awarded to urban police departments went to patrols and other community-based programs.
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the white house and justice department were far more interested in supporting measures the stimulated defensible space and then new-line parsing technologies in low-income neighborhoods while using police correction anti-delinquency of initiatives with welfare programs to the plot late, due to its own shared set of assumptions about race and unwillingness to disrupt the racial hierarchy that has defined the social political and economic relations of the united states historically, the bipartisan consensus that launched the intervention did not believe african-americans are capable of governing themselves. nixon expressed this sentiment to chief of staff. there is never in history that an adequate lactation the president had and they are the only race in which this is true. i know that nixon's comments to domestic john ehrlichman has been getting press lately. a number of posts i have in the book are more telling about the
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intent behind many policies that the administration. in a less conspicuous form, jimmy carter stressed grassroots participation is a critical component of administration punitive program. authorities refused to fund groups such as the fleet to improve the robert taylor home which advocated strategies very much in line with its stated commitments of the administration but not to implement strategies without oversight from police and public housing authorities. when reagan took office, the rhetoric vanished from the domestic policy arena never to return. it's up to you to change what we've been talking about. stemming from the punitive shifter in the previous decade over the course of the 1980s, law enforcement officers came to provide the primary and in some areas the only public social services to residents. as the first line of contact between government authorities and the public, police officers
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assume various duties depending on the groups of citizens they are charged with protect them. throughout the 20th century and into the 21st, police patrols and communities are expected to guard property from outsiders they segregated low-income communities, their task is to search for suspects and remove offenders and potential offenders from the streets. disproportionate numbers of african-americans receive criminal records and prison sentences as a result of the differential approaches the public safety that policymakers enshrined in crime control legislation. they introduce in greater numbers of mostly white police officers in the nation's most isolated urban areas, federal policy is polarized residents have my enforcement authorities. only 4% of the sworn police officers who thought a war in crime during the second half of the 1960s and through the 1970s were of african american descent. a low figure given the low representation but the national arrest rate and inside the
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prison system. james baldwin observed the impact of the dynamic as early as 1961 at the urban inequality class now. the other way to place a ghetto is to be oppressive. for black residents come the police officers represented the force of the white world and not gross criminal profiting is to keep the black men corralled up in here and its vice like an occupying soldier in a bitterly hostile country. baldwin went on to observe the police officer faced daily and nightly for people who would gladly see them dead and he knows it. this suspicion on both sides, the problem is baldwin identified if they do not in the policemen but the systemic forces that supported questionable and sometimes deadly policing practices. the response of outside forces on the segregated deep inner sense of residents to the president of the forces were
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historical developments of socioeconomic circus and see if the officer had few alternatives but to act in a manner in which she or he had been conditioned and trained. more than a half-century after baldwin's inside policing practices and mass incarceration has become the foremost civil rights issue of our time. instead of being criminalized, low income citizens must be empowered to change their is to be fully integrate into public institutions at all levels. crime control is a local matter. residents and community should be responsible for keeping our communities safe. various national reform such as police i.d. cameras merely continued the use of taxpayer dollars to fund new equipment for police forces come police forces come in the process that with law enforcement assistance act of 1965. militarization of american police and the other policing of black neighborhoods is a policy
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path consistently proven unsuccessful as the crime reduction strategy and feels mass incarceration in the racial disparities within racial disparities within the nation's enormous complex. now is the time to try a new strategy from residency requirements for police, civilian review board to autonomous grassroots program to job creation measures for the avarice group for policy makers think outside of the economy that will enable us to finally confront the attraction stomach inequalities and liberty violations that existed in the criminal justice system a source persistence of inequality in the united states. in august 2014, during a series of demonstrations and ferguson, missouri, images dropping tear gas bombs on protesters and civilians alike shot much of the american public. ferguson looks like a war zone prompting her discussion about priorities among scholars and policymakers.
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average over the deaths of unarmed african-american citizens in the general lack of police accountability for those killed in the year after the death of michael brown during 2014 and i will say their names in tribute band includes eisel ford from asante parker, a chai girly comic to their race, look on the donald, and tosha mckenna, tony robinson, anthony hill, hockaday, mayor hall, walter scott, freddy greg, alexia christian, sandra bland, samba boys and christian taylor. their deaths have set a new kind of social limits on federal action. the commission said the police encounters ended in the loss of each of their lives and the lives of thousands of innocent citizens never know would not have existed and could have been entirely avoided had federal policy makers decided to respond in a different way to the civil
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rights movement and the enlightened protest of the 19th 60s. questions of intent or the degree to which federal policymakers first saw the consequences of the choices they made with respect to social programs and black communities around the relevant to assert extent. the issue was to uncover decisions that made contemporary mass incarceration possible to just cover around actual history. the center of the book with their men and women and these policies will shape life prospect for black children and their children's children, even if the criminal justice system is transformed when the gun. and in the war of drugs would not resolve the nation's policing of the problems, even if serving time for drug convictions are released and obama, some of you may have heard of federal prisoners which is a step in the right direction. the united states would still be
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home to the largest penal system in the world if we only released those incarcerated and those behind bars for offenses. as long as law enforcement remains at the forefront of domestic urban policy, and remains focused on citizens of color, impulses of the last half-century will continue to be road american democracy. barring fundamental redistributive changes at the national level, the racial marginalization of the socioeconomic isolation and imprisonment is more likely to repeat itself. thank you. [applause] [inaudible conversations] >> questions, comments?
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>> i've been reading your book and the scene tuesday just that the remedies for racism involved broad structural change. maybe you could elaborate on what you mean i thought. >> if we want to think about the root causes of what we call crime and violence really stands for and mass unemployment and the fact that the united states economy transitions during the period for johnson's war on crime from a viper in industrial manufacturing sector to outsourcing much of his labor. in the communities where police officers but the federal government begins investing in augmenting police force and
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simulating a new level of police patrols, these communities are placed under surveillance when really the job creation program as i mentioned mostly white police officers has created. we don't get a job creation programs to give low income people new kinds of opportunity. structural rethinking, education systems, investing in going beyond remedial programs. the meat of the warm property really focused on programs self-help program says johnson officials called them and we are more about providing training to low-income americans without necessarily thinking about whether that job training at the time to get a job after they've completed the series of training provided by the war on poverty and other social welfare programs.
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[inaudible] >> you mentioned job climate in education, [inaudible] >> yeah, police officers, one way to approach a rethinking public safety is to have police live in the communities they are responsible for keeping safe. instead of having people come into a community that they don't live then and only then and arrest people, is having police officers within the communities that they are meant to protect and serve different types of function. in some ways this might be romanticized view focus returns to the earlier forms of american policing that we think about where police officers lived on the block they were responsible for keeping safe before that area of professional modernist forces than anything you have a different level of responsibility and accountability to communities
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when you are policing your neighbor is essentially a set of people you don't know or enters in. >> i was wondering if you could identify a look at but legislative changes with the needed because there is less protection in the system of the police practices because they are back up by laws and statutes. we have a month of most owners greece writes on the country. i work for the public defender agency as they see this on a daily basis of criminal poverty. do you see -- how do you see that happening with the statute changed? obviously an initiative of more progressive people, but how do you see the fundamental legislators that she change that they are protecting and helping district attorneys enforce the
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laws and give them the power to arrest and prosecute. >> that is a fantastic question and it gets to the way in which i handed the book, which is trying to think about how to move beyond the war on drugs. part of what and mass incarceration is not just incarcerating people are really minor offenses are things like drug possession, but the extent of american punitive myths. i believe there are currently 700 people serving life for role without sentences in japan. accompanying these gestures we've made towards dhi qar street nonviolent offenders in rethinking the word is feuded the war on drugs, we also need to think about the ways in which our sentencing practices themselves with mass incarceration of provisions that respects laws, et cetera, the widespread use of web without
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parole sentences, which some people view as another form of the death penalty. we have to rethink the punitive myths of american statute if we want to think about really enacting a criminal justice reform. as we mentioned, the first line of contacts between residents we also have to rethink policing crack essays. if police are meant to take a greater roles come especially social welfare rolls as many forces have been asked to do, much the result of federal policies, we also have to change incentives in police departments the police are rewarded for the kind of community work they do as they are for suspects in high-speed chase is in meeting their arrest is better. we had to rethink its earnings and the prevention and also the general police crack this is that has been sustained for the
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past two years. [inaudible] >> do you see it as a viable -- >> i think is key. though this is a business election publishes a lawmakers for politicians records and in our own interest and bringing forth the study that we want to see. but it is also, you know, i hope that their research and understanding of these issues, especially allocative research can help us come to identify new avenues for possible change. you had your hand up. >> i was wondering how much do you believe the changes in policing that you don't demand and was facilitated or opposed by actual communities? for instance, the title i can't
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remember, sauce is a community desiring better policing, better control over what at the time was a large problem in ireland. i was wondering what your comments are. >> i recently co-authored an op-ed in "the new york times" with my colleague that gal and are for now because similar arguments have been made in the case of that book about the rise of the rockefeller drug laws and the 94 crime bill. bill clinton and hillary clinton rationalize their support of the bill by saying this is something the cdc advocate of foreigners know this is kind of a democratic assess upward because we are giving black constituents what they are asking for. the problem in the narrative that jurors the extent to which these calls for greater protection, and these calls for state ian communities were also accompanied with critiques of police brutality, calls for
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employment programs, rehabilitation, crime prevention. despite this larger set of demands, which usually included a real critique of police brutality and aggressive law enforcement in low income communities and that took into account the larger socioeconomic tourist that contribute to problems of crime and violence. policymakers only responded to the demand for punitive program. so as we say in the yacht that, residents called for better policing and politicians heard more policing and that is what they got. this is an historic trend. despite all of the demand that black act of this has made, what they end up getting from the state tends to be punitive programs, law-enforcement programs, crime control programs. it was published in april i believe last month.
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[inaudible] >> i will accept your invitation and ask you to say something about carter. the scholarship has been done on the recent situation in the 90s and the role of the clinton and his ration in your work is this the 60s. tell us what happened to the late 70s. >> so one of the things that i argue in the book is that carter, the kind of deregulation and the carter administration, to even stronger partnerships forged between the public and private dirt really began to take hold in new ways during the carter administration. we can see the transition to the deregulatory policies of the reagan administration emerging in the prior administration and i think carter -- people don't necessarily discuss carter in that way.
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after the nixon and ford administrations, we don't get this rhetoric of community involved in in the epilogue and kind of a focus on addressing urban problems such as employment, education, it better. but carter ends up doing and this is reflective of where federal priorities were funding by the time he took office, use employment programs for black youth minister in barbed wires, bars on the windows, extra locks within housing projects. in this sense during the carter administration, his major youth employment program forces african-american youths to become complacent to egypt where he and the criminalization of their communities. that is a metaphor for the larger aspects and limitations of domestic policy after essentially a decade of the war
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on crime and this new federal crime control priority. >> so, moving toward, where would we put obama's federal policy within the context of any number of cities that have been influenced or inspired by obama federal policy. draw the connection between obama, of his approach to this and the chicago -- >> what would you say obama's church is? >> i'm asking you. >> i don't necessarily think that obama's approach has been as far as i'm concerned for as far as i see it, my brothers keeper. that is part of. right, exactly. it is like this rhetoric of trying to do some thing, so we
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get the ferguson report from the department of justice, which is really a ways dealing with racism at a level of extraction that is going on in many majority black city sites for%, where police as a federal government said the ferguson police department isn't functioning or was it functioning to keep citizens safe but as a collection agent to you, where would profile and arrest people for failing to pay traffic tickets so literally, the ferguson police department when the dish and to be majority black kind of often continues a historical trend of attraction. the solution we are getting to that our body cams. that seems to be the foremost reformed we have gotten in terms of dealing with the police and residents relation to each other. this is outside of obama releasing nonviolent drug offenders, defendants in with
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our macs currently before congress. the attempt to dhi qar ciré. not only does this directly benefit private company is which tragically, ironically teaser provides officers with stun guns, provides officers with instruments of brutality and now they are profiting off body cams, which are supposed to hold officers accountable, but they open up a whole new data collection monster on top of the other criminal justice databases we have, which will then create new opportunities for private sector to kind of comment and analyze the data. again, this is a band-aid to a problem. it does not solve the real brew causes and i think really until police police department said the resident that they are responsible for patrolling and surveilling are able to kind of sit at the table together where
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residents can have a voice and input over the program and especially the policing programs implemented in the communities would open up a whole new level of issues and problems that we can't even first tee. for teaser, it continues to be good business. >> so johnson versus obama. [laughter] >> that's a hard question. richard nixon is far to the left of obama and many of us backs. >> i didn't want to go there, but you are right. >> said john m. versus obama. initiatives in d.c. >> the war on poverty and i'm critical of johnson and the war on poverty but that is because it is our job as historians to
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be critical of even figures and programs that we admire. johnson is a complicated figure, but the war on poverty and the promise of the principle of max non-feasible participation is something i think we really, really need to return to. if we want to think about a roadmap for precedent for policies moving forward, we need to vote at some of the early -- earlier ideas and the kennedy and johnson administrations. the kennedy administration had developed on an experimental level and implemented the nationwide. returning to these principles of empowering communities to direct and shape the programs and resources that they are receiving from the federal government is really important. i think there is a role for the federal government in promoting greater opportunities and must
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meet date and the made-up dialogue to address the consequences of racism, discrimination and class inequality in the 90s state. -- in the united states. [inaudible] just see your last point, you just mentioned it. i'm wondering if there's any possibility of moving forward and must there is some kind of acknowledgment that 1865 did and everything. it's simply evolved and there has been no suggestion of then it's word of truth and reconciliation art and a national conversation. i'm wondering where that night figuring to your excellent work. >> i think it is something completely necessary and that is one of the things that has been really exciting about finishing this research revising the book over the past year.
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my blacklist founder and kind of the awareness and coverage is of what has been going on since the mid-60s in low-income communities and targeted african-american communities become part of the national discussion. the fact that hillary clinton talks about making the mission for presidency should she become a lack of his very promising. conversations are opening up. theriot tubman is on the $20 bill. the question is whether they will move beyond these conversations in this room and elsewhere into concrete change in kind of a growing awareness and change in consciousness about who gets to be a citizen, who doesn't, who should be included and how much opportunities we should provide to citizens who have been systematically and historically excluded from access to basic resource is, including in the case of flint, water that isn't
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poisoned. >> amazing book. incredible work. i wanted to ask the historical question. how much of the decline in mid to field you think turned fund the robust participation of lack power militant and community control programs and community programming. how much positive way to put on black powers surging sea into the sphere and you can point on this front.
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the nixon administration would you capable of navigating back to lebanon. the black militant organized control of community control programs. >> so i think that's an excellent question and a difficult one to answer. in terms of maximum feasible participation, johnson almost immediately could find the woodland in chicago involved with the gangster disciples and gang membership supposedly. the question as to what extent was the johnson administration local officials oppose this because they didn't want to feed their power so eventually as a way to remedy the situation, john did not only institutionalized as in the
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power his organization like woodlawn. this is a voter registration drive and so johnson recently backed off. i think even more, this is really an essential argument in the work. even more involved with this culture controls, what really kind of iraq's johnson and liberal sympathizers further and further away from the smart transformative notions of liberal form in the 60s beginning with 64, harlem chicago, philadelphia, brooklyn, rochester new york and that continue to escalate every single year is more and more producers deserve being allocated towards the war on crime. so johnson -- johnson and his advisers debated the extent and these riots were somehow
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political in nature. they recognize that issues of unemployment, issues of lack of access education from access education, temperance is shared by the civil rights movement had inspired the sensitive of urban violence. the gas, instead of saying we could respond to these issues with actually we haven't gone far enough. what the war on poverty. maybe we really do need a structural solution if we want to prevent teacher uprisings from happening. .. >> i didn't answer your second question, but that's okay.
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i will get to it later. >> for those of us who are old enough to sort of have been around -- [laughter] >> what do you do with -- there's a black power piece and there was sort of the corruption in this organization. there's a lot of hustling. i'm old enough to remember a lot of the community-based in philly, muslims, the bruno family, all operating in concert. in that context where the narrative gets a little stickier and more complicated because there actually is corruption, because responds to that. there was a couple of studies. i know the philadelphia case. they were actually pretty remarkable. in the case of chicago, arthur, the preacher.
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a faith-based program led by the church. here part of the difficulty is that there's a criminal element that's the left. and this is my discussion with brandon. never knew quite what to do. the white folks, liberation. there's a third wrinkle which is sort of the complicated nature. >> so -- >> so my question is how do you -- how do you filter that into your analysis. i'm trying to complicate the analysis. how does one filter that element into your analysis? >> well, i mean, my initial thought when you were talking about corruption specially in that period and during the nixon administration that there's corruption -- >> johnson. there was hustling during johnson. >> the way in which these programs -- there's corruption
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in the ways that the programs are selected to be funded and things like that. that is a problem with the kind of bureaucracy that's created. we really see the corruption at the highest levels taking off and there's corruption -- there's white-collar corruption and some of that i detail in the book. what we see in watergate is reflected in the ways nixon's friends and supporters get these newly available crime control grants and some of the things happened with the war on poverty when the federal government introduces and begins funding as we see with the body cams. the problem is that specially when you're dealing with these kind of more transformative perhaps with less oversight from
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state officials, these programs are cut off before they are really, really given a chance to work. [inaudible] >> one thing that your book does well if we are going to talk about corruption, is you do a good job of giving us an even-handed analysis of, you know, democrats and republicans and i just wanted to have you comment a bit about what i perceived to be an issue of disfranchisement in terms of african americans as a voting block being left with just democrats being represented in the governance of things whether it's at the local level or national level. how has that sort of contributed to an inability, part of ordinary citizens to actually
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get their leaders to respond to them, that part, because sometimes issue of clientele relationship where they've being taken as given as voters. >> well, that, you know, i think for the last señy, the democratic party has taken for granted african american voters, latino voters and make rhetorical gestures without necessarily enacting policies that really address the issues that are most important to them. we see this very much and the clinton administration not only with the crime bill which kind of exacerbated an already kind of bubbling prison population, prison population explodes as a result of this bill, introduces more police on to the streets, we get that, increases the death penalty provisions, we get the
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reform bill. the black middle class rose in the 90's but the number of americansing living in extreme poverty actually increased drastically during the clinton administration. part of it is are really putting pressure on the democratic party to addressing mass incarceration, it's up to us to keep that -- to keep that pressure going. i think this kind of gets the questions that reverend rivers raised earlier perhaps looks like unless there's a huge surprise, we are not going to get another black president, perhaps the next president will be able to do specially if it's someone in the democratic party
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will be able to actually address racial issues head on in a way that barack obama being the first black president can't. i'm hopeful that we are coming to this moment of change and as history shows up and the cif right shows us it's not like changes are going to come out of the goodness of policy makers' hearts. >> there's also the rhetoric, oh, we are losing white voters so what do we do which we know was what brought the clinton middle ground-type governance. may have to respond which then might -- >> i think in so many ways --
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i'm not a political pundit. i do think that where we are right now and what we are seeing in terms of what the election has unfolded all right, reflect the fact that we still remain in many ways and widening income disparities. the civil right movement and war on poverty because it did not involve structural and we are dealing with this in the way that race has played to set a psychological wedge for keeping people shared opposed to one another. we are seeing the long-term consequences of that play out. i hope as we begin to have these conversations and think about the choices that we've made in terms of policy and begin to reckon with our history, that perhaps new coalitions and new political parties will form out of this niewment we are --
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movement that we are in right now. one more. yeah, last question. >> how do you get trump supporters to -- >> gosh. >> to agree or begin to see things the way that you see things? i think the big problem with a lot of the discussions is if you can forgive the term has become a bit academic, right, we are not able to get those who do not agree with these positions, people who believe that america's best days were a hundred years ago to actually see that there are changes that need to be made. how do we begin that process and widening the table? >> that's a good question and hard question. i think that we are so divided unfortunately as a nation and all of the different clarifications in categories,
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many of them, most of them arbitrary that we assign to the other, to people that we don't know that prevents us from being able to form coalitions that we are suggesting and so, you know, part of it, if we think with the example of criminal justice reform: i think it's important for the people coming out of the system, are at the forefront. they begin to interact with people and have dialogue with people, people's world view, people's opinion begin to change. part of it is segregated not just by race but in a society that we really need to begin -- gosh, i sound kind of like what hillary clinton is talking about. we need to become whole. we need to see that we actually have far more in common than we do things that divide us. the things that divide us really don't matter. i think it's difficult to think
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about how in a large scale like immediate way how to change that, but i think it does take exposure to -- to communities and to people who you thought acted a certain way or you thought were -- had a certain kind of belief or behaved a certain way to see that actually they're not that different than you are and then hopefully we can begin to actually act as a collective instead of acting as -- in our own self-interest. thanks for question. tough one. all right, thank you. [applause] >> thanks, everyone, thanks so much to elizabeth, this is fantastic. we have books for sale at the register. >> we need to get to a point
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where we recognize the united states is not immune to the appeal of these organizations like al-qaeda and isis, that there are muslims in the u.s. and absolutely percentage of them, but nevertheless they do exist who feel as though their identity is under a certain sense of crisis and are looking to these national groups as a way of identifying themselves of expressing their grievances sometimes in horrific, violent ways. now, we are no where near the problem that europe has. let's be clear. we've had about 3,000 or so europeans who have left to join isis and almost zero, very close to zero of them in america and i will also say that this overwhelming focus that we have
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on islamic terrorism and islamic extremism in the united states is exaggerated and more dangerously, i think, it hides the threat, the department of homeland security, the fbi and 74% of every single law enforcement agency in the united states all say that the greatest threat to americans is right-wing extremism, right-wing terror. right-wing terrorists have killed far more americans since attacks of 9/11. you're more likely to be shot by a a toddler than islamic terrorist. as awful as the san bernardino shootings were as horrific as that experience was, that was the 355th mass shooting in america in 2015. and that year last year ended with 372 mass shootings. so, yes, we are under threat of terrorism in this country, it's
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just not islamic terrorism. >> you can watch this and other programs online at booktv.org. c-span created by america's cable television companies and brought to you as a public service by capable or satellite provider. >> the republican national convention from cleveland starts today. watch live every minute on c-span. listen live on the free c-span radio app. it's easy to download from the apple store or google play. watch live or on demand any time at c-span.org, on your desktop phone or tablet where you will find convention schedule. follow us on c-span, like us on facebook to see video of news worthy moments. don't miss a moment of the 2016 republican national convention starting today at 1:00 p.m.

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