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  Munk Debate Focuses on Donald Trumps Candidacy in 2016  CSPAN  October 1, 2016 6:24am-8:02am EDT

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a whatever you want to call it
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the system a mafia state is a disaster for ordinary russians. >> that's a typical argument. chinese foreign policy can be described as nefarious management. >> why is religion not incompatible? >> religion forces people to do unkind things. >> show me the word pretext. show me the word. >> it doesn't change the point. we do not want sympathy. we do not want. we want opportunities. >> it's appalling slander. >> i never said the word. >> it is that kind of restraint, is that kind of sober minded sensible intelligent foreign policy that obama represents so i guess what i'm telling you is
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he a sort of a quasi-canadian. [applause] ♪ [applause] >> we are in the heart of downtown toronto a city that is home to more than 6 billion people. carved into the water of lake ontario and here we are everyone at roy thompson hall. it's distinctive interior design, we know what well reflected by day transparent by night. this is toronto's premier concert hall. the venue usually for the biggest names in entertainment but tonight before 3000 people, the latest in a series of munk
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debates, a clash of ideas over u.s. presidential election. good evening. it is once again my pleasure to be your moderator tonight for this debate. this important debate. want to start by welcoming the north american wide television audience. joining us right now on c-span across the continent to usa and here in canada coast-to-coast on cpac. a hello also to the on line audience watching right now, facebook livestreaming this debate over facebook. our social media partner. on the web sites of our digital and print partners and of course on our own web site the munk and hello to all of you. the 3000 people who have once again filled roy thompson hall
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to a munk debates capacity. bravo. [applause] our ability year in and year out to bring the debate to bring to some of the worlds best debaters from the brightest minds, the sharpest thinkers to weigh in on the big global challenges and the issues and problems facing the world would not be possible without the generosity and the foresight and the commitment of our folks tonight so please join me in a warm appreciation for the munk debate founders. bravo you guys. thank you. [applause] so it's a real treat to be of the host these debates in toronto. let's get our teams at debaters out here center stage and our debates underway. we have a controversial motion.
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it's designed to fire up our participants and fire up the on line television and in the auditorium audience. that resolution be it resolved donald trump can make america great again. speaking for the motion our first debater tonight, please welcome the former speaker of the u.s. house of representatives and an adviser to the trump campaign, newt gingrich. [applause] speaker gingrich team made is the best-selling author, renowned radio broadcaster with over 5 million daily listeners coast-to-coast in the united states and she is a force of nature and the american conservative movement. ladies and gentlemen, laura
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ingraham. [applause] one great team at debaters deserves another and we have not disappointed you tonight. be it resolved donald trump can make america great again the former u.s. labor secretary, acclaimed berkeley professor, filmmaker, author, one of the most formidable debaters at this time, robert reich. [applause] roberts debating partner canadian born to time governor of the state of michigan and the cochair hillary clinton's white
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house transition team, please join me and no warm welcome to jennifer granholm. [applause] let's go through a very quick predebate checklist before we go to our opening statements. first we have a hashtag going tonight. those in the hollow those watching on line hashtag munk debate. let us know what you think. join the debate in china conversation take part in our rolling poll also as the munk and of course our countdown clock. for those of you who are regulars at the debate this is how we keep our debaters on their toes and our debates on time. we have a clock that will appear as the debaters opening and closing remarks count down to zero.
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join me in a round of applause and that will let them know that it's time to move on. we like to do that here. we like to keep our proceedings moving quickly. let's finally preview how this audience of 3000 people here at roy thompson hall voted on tonight's resolution coming into the debate. in toronto, canada i'm curious here. be it resolved donald trump can make america great again. do you agree or disagree? let's see those numbers up on the screen. okay. [applause] 14%. 14% agree and 86% disagree. now, hey look you can change her mind. you will hear a lot in the next hour and a half. depending on what you hear are
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you likely to change her vote over the next hour and a half. assessing those numbers now, please. okay, look at that. 46% of you could change your minds. 54% are decided. let's just see how the decided you are. we will begin with their opening statements now and by colin speaker gingrich. your six minutes begins now. >> first of all thank you all for coming out. i want to thank peter munk for creating a remarkable institution today was here a few years ago was secretary reich to debate economics and it was a great experience. it was one of the great debates in the entire north american cities so that delighted to have a chance to talk to you. you might about laura and i would be put on edge by an 86-14 vote but if you operate as a conservative and a washington news media that would be
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reasonably good. so it does not particularly affect us. they also want to give a distinction. i would not have even come. the question had been resolved, the canadian should relax and not worry about the donald trump presidency. i think trump represents very real change. i think you will aggressively put america's interests first and i think frankly that has to raise issues because that's a very different frame of reference than the way we have negotiated over the last couple of generations and it sets up a lot of questions which aren't answered and can't be answered until we lived through it. what i would suggest to you is in the long run a very dynamic america that regains a reagan level of economic growth, four, five, 6% a year. in america that is generating jobs, generating rapidly advancing income and america in
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which overhauls its infrastructure in america which reforms the civil service which is in fact a better neighbor, a better customer, a better market to sell into that better support for national security than an america which continues to decay. i think part of what you don't feel in canada is the degree to which the american central government system is decaying. for example we learned last week that the veterans administration , one third of the cause of suicide lights go to call waiting so you can leave a message. just think about that. you are veteran and you are depressed. you are literally thinking about suicide. it's 2:00 in the morning. you call a number you were told will help you in one out of three times you get a tape recording. this is a government level of incompetence that is beyond breathtaking and you see it again and again in our system.
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the liquor of the structure we are now $19 trillion in debt and in large part due to the the infrastructure does not work. it has to be a profound overhaul to compete in the world market. the director of national intelligence reported, staff reporter earlier this year that the chinese last year stole $360 billion in intellectual property in the united states. we have an 800 billion-dollar. deficit. you can't sustain it and you also can talk about free trade when your largest trading partner or your second-largest trading partner is feeling a third of a trillion dollars a year in intellectual properties. and so the requirements that we think finally the whole issue of the war in the middle east. it has been 37 years since the ayatollah khamenei illegally seized the american embassy beginning iran's campaign against the united states.
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it has been 15 years since 9/11 when islamic supremacists killed 3000 people in the united states. we are not winning. we have spent trillions of dollars, lost thousands of young men and women, had tens of thousands of severe ones and no serious person can argue that we are winning. when trump says we need to rethink this i would argue that he is not a lib and he is not a harbor -- harvard trained lawyer but as a crude rough-and-tumble businessman that has a habit of actually building things and making them work and projects he has the entrepreneurial drive and i think he has the courage and i think he has the originality that will enable us
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to start to break through and to literally make america great again and i think in the absence of very profound change the united states is going to continue to change. we will become a weaker partner for you. it's going to have bad implications for both of our economies and bad implications for both of our national security than an america for example this year we have over 3000 people shot in chicago and over 500 killed. somebody is shot in chicago every two hours. that requires profound fundamental rethinking. we have lost more americans in chicago since 2009 than we have lost in iraq and afghanistan combined and if that means we are -- we need a rough-and-tumble guy who is frankly not a very subtle, not a very glib, not a very sophisticated person but he may just be like andrew jackson the kind of person you need to break through and actually make the
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system work again and i would argue that's a much better gamble for the future than to continue the current system, the current policies, the current bureaucracies, the current mess in washington and that's why i think we have a better chance of making america great again with donald trump. [applause] >> thank you speaker gingrich. robert reich you are up next for your opening statement, six minutes on the clock. >> thank you. i love to debate newt gingrich because we agree on nothing. [laughter] but in a very good-natured way. i have been in canada for about 24 hours and i am so reassured to learn that country to my fears that the canadians are not contemplating building a wall. the off chance that donald trump becomes president most of us
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want to come north. but let me just say this. on a proposition and the fact that 86% of you are with governor granholm and me is something of a challenge. we want to get you up to 88 or 90% but the difficulty of arguing this proposition is knowing where to begin. honestly. [applause] let me just say something here and it's very sincere. when you have a lot of people in a society who feel economically stressed and in the united states to a lesser extent in canada, you have a much much better safety net in canada. in the united states we have a lot of the old working class and a lot of middle last, lower
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middle class people who have been on the downward escalator for years and part of that i don't want to cast aspersions for part of it i remember because i was labor secretary when speaker gingrich was speaker and one of the frustrations i had, no dispersions of all is trying to get job training and more education spending in trying to get infrastructure spending and earned income tax credit which is a wage subsidy for people at the bottom and getting a lot of opportunities and recreating equal opportunity, widening the circle of prosperity but the republican congress and the republicans wouldn't do it. all they wanted was trickle-down economics. trickle-down economics are tax cuts for the rich and you pretend it trickles down to everybody else. it didn't come it doesn't, it is a cruel hoax and the net results of those years are all of this year's senate fact we have seen basically the standoff now for
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about 25 years the net result is you have a large and growing percentage of americans who feel with some justification that the game is rigged against them. my friends, you know as well as i do what happens when you have a larger percentage of their population feeling like the system is rigged against them. we can see a lot of the same stresses occurring in europe and elsewhere around the world. you create the conditions in which demagoguery is rife. you always invite authoritarian populism. there is an history to different forms of populism. one i will call authoritarian. those are the demagogues that want to channel that anger and anxiety and fear and channel it toward scapegoats and want to blame foreigners or immigrants were minority groups. this is nothing new. we have seen the tragedy of what happened 70, 80 or 90 years ago
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in europe is still within levering memory or at least within the minds that the reform and political system. you make equal opportunity a reality and that's the only alternative when people are stressed. in other words it really is a choice between authoritarian populism or performance populism and that's what we face right now the united states. that's why donald trump is in the words of the cincinnati inquirer for example. the cincinnati inquirer if you don't know is a republican publication or it has been, back in 150 years has not endorsed a democrat but what did it do a few weeks ago? endorsed hillary clinton. if said quote donald trump is a clear and present danger to the united states and also to the world.
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now i don't have to do this. fact i have about one minute left but you know this. this is a man who denies climate change is caused by humans who calls vladimir putin a stronger leader than president obama, who says president obama invented isis who for years has claimed president obama was not even born in the united states. ironically it's an embarrassment embarrassment -- an embarrassment here. to suggest that the death of supreme court justice antonin scalia was part of a plot. he refers to women he doesn't like his pigs and slobs and call the former miss universe miss piggy. he said thousands and thousands of muslims in new jersey celebrated the twin towers collapsing, wants to ban muslims from entering. says a federal judge has a conflict of interest in
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considering a case against trump universiuniversi ty because of his mexican heritage and i could go on and on. you get the point. this is demagoguery. this is wielding anxiety and frustration and pointing it at them. this is hatemongering. this is undermining the social fabric of the united states. so it's not just that donald trump is a problem. the problem is that donald trump has already poisoned the well and we have got to all of us here tonight get rid of him. [applause] we will next go to you laura ingram. your six minutes is on the clock. >> i want to thank everyone here for coming tonight.
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it's such a great privilege to be with all of you and i can't believe 14% of the people in this room actually support the proposition. i will buy margaritas for all of you, all of you at the fun table. i am honestly thrilled to be here to support the proposition and i would like to begin with a quote from march of this year. here it goes. i have seen first-hand how excessive wall street in the corporations are at wielding influence using lobbyists, campaign donations and subtle promises of future jobs to get the global deals they want. opal feels like a transpacific partnership will boost the profits of wall street's corporations and make the richest 1% even richer but they will will conjure you to the steady shrinkage of the american middle class. that quote was posted by robert
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reich former secretary of labor for the clinton administration and our opposition tonight. next i would like to quote at 2000 article about the decision of electrolux. we have had electrolux vacuums in my house in connecticut. they will leave greenville michigan for mexico. governor jennifer granholm was disappointed by electrolux decision to abandon greenville. she promised to persuade the company tuesday to stay assembling a package of more than 120 million in state and local tax credits. the city offered to build the plant, the local union agreed to give as up as much is $33 million in wages. they said there's nothing you can do to compensate for the fact that we are able to pay $1.57 an hour to mexico granholm recalls. that's when i started to say quoting governor granholm nafta and cafta have given us shasta. i like that line. i'm using that on my radio show
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on monday. i did not quote the statements to embarrass our distinguished opponents tonight, i really didn't. i quoted them to show that we actually share common ground and i think it's important to say that even at a debate. lots of folks in washington complain that we don't have enough bipartisanship and people from different parties can't agree on policies to make the lives of the at average american better but when it comes to this issue of globalization i believe people of good faith on both sides increasingly agree that the current system does not work for blue-collar workers. for years people like governor granholm and secretary reich have warned about the harm that are trade policy is doing to american workers and some of us, some of us on the republican side including people like senator jeff sessions of alabama, have done the same. so we are not asking for protectionism. we are not asking for
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mercantilism. we are not opposed to all trade. we are simply asking for a system where american workers and businesses in america have a better chance to compete, where it's easier for american businesses to grow and expand and for american workers to obtain higher wages and after all the united states is the largest most attractive market in the world and of all countries we shouldn't be forced in the united states to enter fields of put our people at a disadvantage. what happened? absolute nothing despite the common ground that a lot of democrats, people like bernie sanders and people like myself and obviously donald trump at this very moment president obama is pushing yet another massive trade deal the transpacific partnership and this is the exact deal that he criticized this year and he's absolutely right. but you know when i know that everyone in this room knows that hillary clinton if she is elected president, this country,
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our country the united states will soon be bound by the transpacific partnership and it might happen in a lame-duck session of congress and it may happen after secretary clinton if she becomes president makes a . . . i will tell you why. the same people who the same gridlock in washington for so many years are in favor of it. because they have always been in favor of the things that benefit them and it's usually the top 1% of the country. it's usually big donors and it's usually big corporations who have really fancy lobbyist who have made a lot of money they eat fancy dinners in washington d.c. and wine and dine everybody at the capitol and then along comes donald trump and described it. accurately. . . . on their blanket
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the blank and he does in a way that is offputting and i think it's frankly terrifying to a lot of people because when you mess with their status quo than they start getting really serious about fighting you. donald trump will not be beholden to big donors. he will not be behold into wall street. wall street is endorsing hillary clinton. hillary clinton refuses to show her transcripts after goldman sachs speeches and i would like to know why that is. we need a government that represents all the people, no matter where they come from, no matter what color their skin and donald trump promises to do that. i think a system that. [laughter] i still think canadians are nice. [laughter] we need to break the oligarchy in washington d.c. that dominated the country restore democracy in which the voice of all the people is respected. [applause]
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>> the final opening statement goes to governor granholm. >> thank you so much and thanks for the invitation to come. i know the monk debates wanted to get a canadian born u.s. politician who is against donald trump to come and pick to endorse donald trump a couple of weeks ago, so here i am. [applause] so i want to talk in that vein of robert reich as an apology really do how do we start? i want to give you in my brief six minutes a couple of reasons of the 4003 to 65 that you might vote against this resolution for and just to wet your whistle. for example donald trump is so erratic that nbc has done an
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evaluating and of his positions and where he has stood and what they have determined is of 20 positions donald trump has changed his mind 124 times. on the issue of immigration he has changed his mind 18 times alone. he would be a danger as a president notch with -- not just because he's erratic. don't take my word for it. take the word of economists and there had local intelligence unit. their unit rates all of the global risks. they have determined this month that donald trump is the fourth highest global risk among all global risks. in fact we have never put a politician on this list before. [laughter] [applause] ..
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... >> give them an ability to recruit. he is a danger because as secretary reich said because of putin and that is not just because he says obama or vladimer putin is a better leader than vladimer putin. but for anybody who has been watching, and i am sure you all have, you may recall his second campaign manager, paul manford, represented for many years the
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head of the russian-backed ukraine until he was kicked out. and when he was the head of donald trump's campaign during the republican convention, this campaign went in and removed from the republican platform, a provision that was a standing provision that said the united states would go in and defend ukraine in the case of russian invasion. he said among this foreignpa policy advisors, there is a guy carter page who does a huge amount of business in russia, and it this week yahoo news determined and reported he was under investigation, his foreign policy advisor, is under investigation by the united states intelligence agency because he is apparently having conversations in moscow about lifting the sanctions against
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russia in the event of a donald trump victory. we know he called upon the kremlin to hack hillary clinton's e-mail. we know the former head of the cia, mike moral, said that donald trump and vladimer putin has recruited donald trump as an unwitting agent of the soviet federation. the man is a danger. he is incredible deceptive as well. i am sure you have been following this. he is a con man. he has trump university trump mortgage and separating the little guy from his money. we know he is a chiseler because he is involved in 3400 lawsuits many are from contractors who
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sue just to get paid. people who built the base for his slot machines and pem who served as waiters and bartenders had to sue him just to get paid. we know he is hiding something because he is not releasing his tax return which is a 40 year tradition that presidential candidates release their tax returns so we can see if there is conflict. we know he is a liar because the news agency, politifact and fact checker evaluated donald trump's statements, like they do everybody else, and they found of all politicians they evaluated donald trump is by far the biggest liar. [laughter] >> "usa today" took the position for the first time saying vote
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for trump. 78% of the facts checked were lies. the man is untrustworthy. the resolution says please, vote against this resolution. protect the states. [applause] >> terrific opening statements. react to what you heard and what is your rebuttal in the debate. >> as canadians having listened to these two you would have to ask the question how could donald trump be this close to winning? [applause] >> there is a profound reason. it is the same reason brexit won
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in great britain. for the first time in rome's history there is a female mayor and she won as part of the five star movement that was founded in brazil the president has been itch peached for corruption. the last president has beenr indicted criminally for starting the corruption. the brazilian national petroleum company has a 40 billion-dollar scandal of bribery and 40% of brazilians believe there's worldwide corruption. in the united states 70% there's corruption. republicans haven't been in charge of chicago as it lapsed. the last republican city councilman in baltimore was 1942, the schools don't work, the kids don't have jobs, there's violence all over the place, these are democratic-controlled areas and then you talk about honesty and dishonesty. donald trump has changed his opinion about as often as
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hillary clinton has changed her explanation of her emails. [cheers and applause] the fact is, the fact is almost 50% of the country, we will see by election day, is totally sickened. it's bill clinton who got a million dollars from moscow for a speech. it's the clintons who gave 20% of uranium to the russians. it's about time that they put donation in her clinton foundation. this corruption has people saying, yeah, donald trump is a risk but better risk thany hillary clinton. [cheers and applause] >> it's certainly convenient for the elites to blame someone who hasn't been in office for the
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past 15 years for the ruin that they left behind. syria, a massive refugee crisis, consumer confidence crisis across western europe, the rise of the populist movement in western movement, brexit, 7 to 10 americans think the country is going in the wrong direction. she is the former secretary of state of the united states of america who in her first trip to russia with all of her experience could not even get the translated button right when she handed it to foreign minister and donald trump is the incompetent person, the incompetent people are the ones who thought it was a good idea to take missile defense out of eastern europe, and i'm delighted, thrilled as someone who lived in the former sovietme union and i'm delighted to hear that democrats are concerned
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about russia. in the 70's we were trying to get worried about russia, it's all going to be fine. they called president reagan, he was so out of control and ronald reagan was going to bring chaos on the world scene. do you know what the current instability right now, america in decline. in four years or eight years of hillary clinton promises the same policies that we have seen over the same eight years, last eight years that have been nothing but flat line u.s. economy in negative and pessimistic view coming from the people, massive trade deficits and china on the rise as america falls dishonesty. it ain't donald trump. it's america in decline under hillary clinton.nder hillary [cheers and applause]
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>> i disagree. [laughter] >> i mean, for example, laura, you said that hillary clinton is -- is in indebted to wall street. well, donald trump is not indebted to wall street because wall street won't give him anymore loans. she's declared bankruptcy four times. where is he getting his money? could it be perhaps from russia? [laughter] >> with regard to trade, look, i was there, i implemented the north american free trade act and -- [applause]ca >> thank you. and nafta to my way of thinking did not have adequate laborer environmental protections in it. it's the best deal we could yet, but let me tell you something else and that is that free trade is not itself bad, the problem
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is that if we do not have -- and the united states does not have mechanisms in place to ease the adaptation of workers who get hurt by the loss of jobs because of trade or because of technological change. if you don't have job training, if you don't have education, if you don't have reemployment insurance, if you don't have anything in place, then obviously those workers are going to be stranded. the problem is not trade, the problem is lack of adjustment mechanisms for the people who get hurt by trade and by technological change. [applause] >> let me say finally that trade is not and should not be considered as donald trump considers it a zero-sum game where one side wins and the other loses, a trade should be positive sum game. you are actually going to condemn the rest of the world particularly the poor to the
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life of lifetime poverty and maybe ages of poverty. that is not good for the world and it's not good for foreign policy and it's not good for peace. thank you. [applause] >> so laura quoted my huge anxiety over the loss, nafta have given us the shafta as they have been enforced. the question for us and ontario has seen its share of loss manufacturing jobs as well. the question is who is in a better position to create central clusters to go after advanced manufacturing and make the investments necessary toto make our region irresistible tot those who would create jobs here. who is in the best position to be able to be smart enough to do the right kinds of partnering
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and investment. is it somebody who said the other night at the debate that when asked why he was not revealing his taxes maybe it's because he doesn't pay any federal taxes and he said, that's because i'm smart. that's because i'm smart. somebody who is being guarded at this moment by secret service agents who were paid for by federal taxes, somebody who uses airports with the big shet that's paid for by federal taxes, who cannot himself see fit to contribute in any way to the common.tion. this man has manipulated the laws to his benefit the entire career. you want somebody to bring jobs back to the united states. you don't rely on somebody who
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is outsourcing his jobs to manufacturers in china and in méxico and in turkey and everywhere else. he is not the model that we need to bring the change that we require. >> thank you, governor. strong opening debate. we are going to move to the moderated portion. more free-flowing discussion. i want to start off by picking up major theme, the first halfra hour of the debate which has been the idea, you mentioned it laura of an america in decline and trump is a manifestation of this. let me start with you, robert. to hear why in a sense clinton isn't in your view the statuss quo, proposing that trump is the solution in the absence of a disruptor on the democratic side of the ticket?
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>> well, disruption for the sake of disruption is not what america or the world needs. i mean, hitler, stalin, they were all disruptors, what we need a fundamental reformer. i've known hillary clinton, by the way, for 49 years and if you can keep it in this audience i will tell you something. [laughter]49 >> i met her, i went out on a date with her in 1967. [laughter] >> and i blew it because i could possibly be the first gentleman of the united states. i have known her as a woman of extraordinary principal, a person of deep, deep commitments to social justice, a person who has worked so hard over the last 30-40 years to improve our society. to me even mentioning the word donald trump, the name donald
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trump in conjunction with hillary clinton is absurd. [laughter] [applause] >> if i may just say one other thing and that is the hillary clinton does not represent the status quo. hillary clinton is a fighter. she has been a fighter all off her life. i was there in the white house when she was fighting, for example, healthcare reform and who was she fighting, she was fighting the republicans who she has always been fighting. i have been fighting, we have two parties in the united states, one is a party about the future and the other is a party that wants to go negative, go backward and we cannot any longer afford to go backwards. >> you brought it up, trump being a manifestation of change, difficult change, controversial change but you believe change is necessary regardless. >> first of all, robert mentioned hitler, you throw in
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stalin and i lost track. >> i definitely through inhi stalin. >> let me talk and you will get your time again. this is what happened in a substantive conversation about the future of america where substantive issues really kind of fade away in the background and the conversation just moves to personal attacks or the most outrageous adjectives or trump is crazy.jectives before you fall in the audience, trump can go away tomorrow and maybe all collapse and strike ue the and trump can go away tomorrow but the carnage that's then left bhient between the established cobble which is compromised of democrats and republicans, both of them, that status status quo which has left america behind and left the working class infuriated, that's
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still going to be there.ost she has almost nothing to show for it. that might sound hard for it. sorry. four years of secretary of state rendered america not stronger on the world scene but weaker on the world scene. her four years in the u.s. senate after promising 200,000 jobs in up state new york, guess what they got? p >> a big goose egg. hillary clinton is the celebriti of the moment because obama isoc going away but the idea that there's a substantive record of accomplishment in the economy or in foreign policy that is going
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to galvanize the whole country behind her it's obviously not playing out. if donald trump is the complete and -- characcature, if he's that outrageous you must think half of your country men areha just completely bonkerred or more . [applause] how t >> i beg the question to begin with. >> good. >> we are -- our unemployment was 4.9%. it's less than half what it wasn when barack obama took over. we had 15 -- [applause] >> 15 million jobs created since february of 2010, the end of the recession.
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it's been almost 80 straight months of job growth and now we are seeing wage growth as well. so this notion that we are in decline, i mean, the challenge certainly has been barack obama that that he has been saddled with a congress that doesn't want to invest to continue progress to go further. to conto [applause] but i would say this, you know, this -- donald trump would shove america into the filler of international esteem so fast, believe me, he -- the idea that he's got now people on his team that have given sort of oxygen to this dark underbelly, it's not everybody certainly on theun republican side. but there is a swath, that swath
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of the electorate who is animated by the all right movement where you go to donald trump's rallies and they have the most horrific signs and chants, words we cannot even describe here that you would be absolutely mortified andly mort. perfectly common at his events. the idea that he and that -- the people who are running his campaign, who run this bright bart news site which is the home of this all-white, nationalist movement, the fact that they have trumented america, the rise of america when that america first movement is a movement that started right during world war ii to convince america not to engage against hitler, when it has been seen now as aag spin-off of this white nationalist movement, that would put america into decline.
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so, yeah, the world isnationali complicated.nk about donald trump would disengage from nato. >> i want to get international affairs in a moment and will be part of this debate but to come to you, speaker, america is not in decline, trump is taking it there. >> there are two different parts to this. one is the left-wing fantasy, you have to invent some new horror in order to hide from reality. the fact as nick ever said, reported on labor day, ten million men have dropped out of the job market. they are not unemployed. they are gone, they toapt care about work, they are playing computer games or whatever. the fact is right now the opioid epidemic has gotten so bad that for the first time since the
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development of the mass produced car there's a new cause of death larger than automobile wrecks and it's opioid addiction. literally more people die today because the underclass of america, the collapse of of leaf in america, the whole sense of o what's going on has led to epidemic of the combination of mexican heroin and oxycodone which is a horrifying system. third, gallup reports 25 million people have dropped out of the middle class under this administration. 25million. now, this wasn't donald trump's fault. he wasn't in charge of the presidency. he didn't spend -- how much money was in the original huge package in 2009? how little of it went to infrastructure, how much it went to paying off various political allies, finally, you talk about investments, $557 million for
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solar power and it went bankrupt. in your home state, second home state in canada, they invested in a battery company that was bankrupt and bought by the chinese. you can go case after case after case and it's a bit much to suggest that there's some extreme group on one side that the america is going to three parallel revolutions, they'reic going through all the people drifting towards trump and all the people towards sanders and there's a black lives matter rebellion among younger blacks who are sick and tired of being lied to. all three are occurringg at the simultaneously. none of them are donald trump's fault. [applause] >> i think there is an important kernel of truth to what both of
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you are saying. just a kernel. with regard to the hopelessness and despair and anker and anxiety and frustration faced by many people who used to be inpe the middle class and even though the economy is improving and we have a lot to be grateful for, that underlying structural problem that it started 30 years ago is still very much with us. we are weeping the world wind of failing to invest in people, fail to go invest in education, failing to invest in infrastructure. fail to go provide the kind of security that people need in order to go on with their lives. we have made a fetish and i don't mean to be partisan newt gringrich, but it starts -- [laughter]what happene
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>> dow you know what has happened because at the despair and a lot is at your feet and some of the people that you brought in? [applause] >> and so just to finish, so when laura asked me how is it that so many people are fine that donald trump to be somewhat exciting and interesting and oh supportive they are because of the choice that i indicated at the beginning. that when you have so many people who are economically stressed, some of them will be moved and tempted to follow authoritarian populist who is blaming everything else but himself and many republican papers have said deeply flawed and deeply dangerous.
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>> i want to bring laura. >> let me just say two things. we just did a conference at the brookings institution. the largest decline in children poverty, largest taking children out of poverty occurred after the welfare reform that moved people from dependency to work and the fact is bill clinton, o course, takes credit, which is fine.t but we moved more people out ofn poverty in childhood than american history, part one. second, the whole, you know, this is the strategy of american liberals. yes, it'll be great to invest,dh for example, in education which i believe in passionately, robert and i share a passion. in detroit 9% of the third graders can read. in baltimore 13% of the eighthgr graders can pass math exam. it's brilliant in paying
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bureaucrats and absolutely fails the children. we have been going through this for 30 years. those who believe in choice and allowing parents to pick a school that makes a choice are defeated consistently, so whenen you talk about investing don't you have to reform the system tr you actually have something positive happen with the money? [laughter] >> very quick. it is very, very important for us to acknowledge that money is not the only thing that is necessary but without money you can't do anything and the united states is only one of two oecd countries, two advanced countries that provide less funding per -- per child thanr funding on average for middle-class children. that to me is a >> laura, i want to bring debate back to resolution, which is be
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it resolved donald trump can make america great again. these are big problems that we are talking about. inner cities, failed education, suicide, drug addiction, what are the characteristics that you think trump has that can address these complicated entrenched problems that you're seeing that this informed educated elite were unable to fix over the last 15 years? >> i think he has the courage to be called every name in the book and still hold on to the idea that what has happened over the last really couple of decades has been, you know, maybe great intentions but it hasn't worked for the average person and it's really unpleasant to be walking through that fire every day. newt and i, i know both jennifer and bob face the same thing. when you're in public life you deal with a lot and you have to take it. it's not pleasant to take on in many ways both parties that agree on a lot. there's a reason that the bush's
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are at least a couple of them supporting hillary clinton. they agree on a lot of issues, they agree on globalization, they agree on immigration, they agree on a lot of foreign policy and trump has -- i would submit that trump has a much -- is muct closer in many ways than reagan -- to reagan than he is to george w. bush in a more interventionist foreign policy. i'm someone for the war in iraq and something that i had to re-examine personally and i dida broadcast in baghdad and love our troops but right now we are seeing america stretched every which way, financially, we are stretched culturally, stretched in every way and donald trump basically is saying, guys, it's not 1984 and it's not even 1994, we are $19 trillion in debt and we can't do this to the next generation. we can't file this on their shoulders because america willsr
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cease to i have a new way forward and it is not going to be easy. when he says it can happen relative, of course, it can happen fast but it's certainly not going to happen if we keep saying, let's just spend our way out of this or if we have a foreign policy that's so confused and so muddled that our adversaries take advantage of our weakness and our friends don't really trust us. trump comes along and says, we are going to lay off some of the heavy regulations, lower corporate tax rate, simplify the life of the small bids owner in america which is at the -- thethered. i know some and he's trying to stream line that. he's a common sense guy and frankly if he gets into the white house and he fails, they'll throw him out in four years because the people are
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very impatient right now for real change. >> i want jennifer to comment on this, we haven't heard from her in a little while. [applause] i totally get the deficit issue. according to objective evaluators like the tax foundation would increase the deficit by $5.3 trillion because of the tax cuts to the rich that he is proposing. 5 and to your point about doing something about oxycodone or investments in schools, on he is website the policy that he is has about education is basically to cut 70% of funds from public schools across the country. 30% from the department of education and put it all into vouchers which helps the private institutions, but the public institutions, of course, are left wandering, you -- wanting. you leaf at risk 22 million students or so. my point is i totally understand what you're saying and i
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understand from a republican point of view why would say that, those are the argument that is you have been beenen making a lot. policies that you are proposing do not address the issues that you are raising. [applause] >> and if i can -- >> not only do they not address the policies you're raising but actually they take us in the opposite direction. jennifer mentioned the independent tax foundation which did an analysis and they found that donald trump's tax plan would boost the aftertax incomes of the top 1% by $122,400 per year. you would get an additional $122,400 because your taxes would be reduced so much by donald trump. the middle class on average would get less than $500 a years and on top of that you get a
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huge budget deficit. this is what has happened every time we have tried supply side. >> let's have speaker going -- gingrich. we ended up with 13% inflation, rising unemployment. ronald reagan saying to people, you're better off than you were four years ago, he won the largest electoral college victory in american history against incumbent and in the process he campaigned with george w. bush, george h.w. bush called budo economics. you cut regulations and you cut taxes you stimulate american economy
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and you get dramatic growth. the truth is you get out of deep recession very fast and economic growth in the five or six years in the reagan administration leading into the first years into the bush administration. i've been through phase in 1994 we campaigned on balancing the federal budget. it's fair to say that i have expertise as the only speaker of the house in your lifetime to produced four consecutive balance budgets. if you quit paying the crooks, you can saves $40 billion a yea. literally. if you open up america for national resource development you probably generate $7 trillion over 10 to 12 year period. you went through, for example, all the properties owned by hud and got rid of empty house that is are sitting in many cities, again, you go through cycles. having done it once, it took four years, four years, we thought it would take seven.
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i think within five to seven years, this is a key to trump, a very aggressive entrepreneur whe walks every morning and says, what do we have to get done. what's my next theory, what arec answers to the conferences, but what we have to get done to achieve this. we have to go ahead radical economic growth and one of the pieces would be to go to a business transfer tax, eliminate corporate income tax and charge it for imports coming in. that differencia alone wouldrt create a tremendous number of jobs in the united states. [applause] >> status quo hasn't worked, median incomes have frozen and it's time for radical change. the question is radical change of what sort, that's what we are
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debating here. everybody wants change, i agree with newt gringrich entirely that we should not pay crooks, can we agree on that? >> bipartisan moment. [laughter] >> but the real issue here is exactly what you do. and we can debate supply side economics but i can -- i can show you because i was there in the clinton administration, i know when the budget was balanced and i know what happened in the george w. bush administration in terms of creating a 5 trillion-dollar debt and barack obama had tocr deal with and work himself and we also had deregulation under george w. bush that created and contributed to one of the worst meltdowns in the economy we have had. we can -- there's a lot we can talk about here.nd the essential issue is donald trump, his experience, his
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credibility, you say he's a great businessman, well, i know that he alleged in 1976 that he had a net worth of $200 million, that's what he said, let's take him at his word. he now he says he has a nett worth of $8 billion, let's take him at his word. if he had in 1976 just taken the $200 million and put it into an index put and reinvested the dividend and done nothing, he would now have $12 billion. [laughter] >> that's not what i call a great businessman. >> i think of it this way sometimes. you think of bill clinton and hillary clinton when president clinton left office and hillaryn clinton decided she was going to run for senate, they said -- famously said they left the white house broke which, of course, wasn't true.he
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they said they left essentially broke.e. relatively short period of time hillary and bill clinton made, i guess, close to $150 million. and that's great, i'm all for. people making as much money as they can. that's awesome. what did they do for $150 million? what did they do? [applause] >> to whom did they speak, what type of access did they get to the leverage of power in washington, d.c.? what type of regimes paid them to speak, how is it that billth clinton speaking fees, i believe, tripled when hillary clinton decided to return for the presidency? i wonder that sudden all of the countries we wanted to hear from bill clibt and pay him three times the going rate. that might seem like a small point, i would say it this way, donald trump didn't bat a thousand in business.
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i don't know many who have. he's had some things that have not been all that successful. at least 14,000 workers across the globe and those are real human beings with real families and children and kids to send to schedule and dreams and hopes, that's something. and to create a job and to make a payroll i have maybe 50 employees, that's small. it's not easy. i'm just a small business person. to employ thousands of people and to start a company and to keep it going with the government and with all of the competing interest, exerts or, i love how people blow that off, there's nothing there, he exaggerates anything. how many people have the clintons ever employed in the private sector?
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[applause] >> zero. zero. >> it is true that donald trump has created a global business and i think it's terrific to talk about people who are employed across the globe with compassion like that. 500 businesses are under the umbrella of the trump organization all over the globe and newsweek did a story last week which talked about the kinds of businesses and in what countries that the trump organization invests, he has investments or investors in russia, the united arab emarates all over the i won't be running my company when i am president, i will give it over to the kids to run. any ethic expert will tell you
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that's not a blind trust, that doesn't remove the conflict of interest when you're immediate family is running this global operation and the question is, when he makes a foreign policy decision, if he did as president , that happened to benefit one of his companies, wouldn't everybody be wondering, did he make that decision because he was going to line his children or his own pockets in the future. would our foreign policy as a country be for sale?n and that is another element of the dangerousness of donald trump. and i want to pair it with this pair that with the idea of him being a compassionate business owner. always has international workers coming because he can't hire people locally.
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in trump modeling recruited a bunch of international models to come and work in the united states and his organization coached them on out to lie to the immigration officials. this is a guy who is a stead-fast put up a wall send them out guy and yet his personal life and has completely gone in the other direction. so to this resolution that we are debating, can donald trump make america great again, it is difficult to imagine a guymaginy making america great again when everything of personal life wreaks of hypocrisy based on what he is saying today. i completely understand -- >> what we are going to do is having speaker gingrich why the personal isn't a reflection of the personal and we will give you a quick closing statement, rob and then closing statements.
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>> i think the clinton supporter worrying about conflict of interest. [laughter] [applause] >> it is so -- it is so infuriating breath-taking. i will give you one example. under hillary clinton the u.s. state department lobbied the haitian government against raising the minimum wage from $3 a day to $5 a day on behalf of people who happened to have given to the clinton foundation. now, this is a level of disgusting mixing of government and personal wealth and -- this whole thing for anybody who is for hillary clinton to raise the concept of conflict of interest shows a capacity for schizophrenia that is stunning. [laughter] [applause]
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>> i talk about a capacity for>u schizophrenia. the idea that somehow the clinton foundation is a bad thing or that somehow it can be compared with donald trump's worldwide effort, clinton foundation has done some very good things. it is a charitable foundation. it has a track record that is extraordinarily commendable. the second, laura, your notion somehow that donald trump has created jobs, we have an expression in canada called stiffing, that is when you don't pay somebody? do you know that the landscape of america, in fact, the world is littered with people who havt contractors and employees whoo have never been paid that are owed by donald trump, have been stiffed by donald trump and whea you say that somehow is hass created jobs and the clintons haven't. the clintons have been been involved for most of their lives
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and i have seen and experienced it and worked with them in the public sector and in the public sector bill clinton as president created 20 or presided over an economy because of policies that created 22 million net new jobs in the united states. that is not insignificant. >> okay, now, wait a second. now you're saying that hillary clinton, the feminist icon, my first book was called thein hillary trap, by the way, that was back in 2000, the feminist icon we are supposed to judge hillary clinton's plan for the economy rob, robert, from her husband's record of the economy because i thought women stood for themselves. [applause] >> come on. >> wait a minute. wait a minute. >> let me finish.a no, no. men aren't going to interrupt me. no.
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no. no. [inaudible] >> let her finish. >> this is what happens when you cut to the bone of the liberal, they always start to cry foul. [laughter] [applause] >> i am woman hear me roar. traz oh, i'm in distress, can obama go campaign, michelle, you're more popular than i am, can you go campaign for i will finish in a second, my husband's economy was really good to please just believe me,m he's going to be my economic adviser and he will save from me all of this.s. if you want to stand on your own two feet -- see, they don't like it.
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if you want to stand on your own merit and your own two feet with your own policies, then i'm ready to hear about how hillary has been hiding in a secrett treasure chest somewhere, the secret to the u.s. economy, all the secrets that he has been keeping from barack obama all od the years because he hasn't beek able to do i hope hillary stands on her own two feet and is a strong woman and accomplished woman, my husband is his own person, i have my way forward and listen to my ideas, i think that's better.listen to my [applause] th >> please be brief. >> i will be very brief. >> thank you. >> i disagree. let me -- let me just say, laura, you can't have it both ways with due respect. you say hillary clinton and bill clinton haven't created a single job, but hillary clinton wasn't really responsible for all those new jobs that were created under clinton mechanics and she is
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just taking advantage. >> she was first lady, bob. >> but the fact is that hillary clinton to the extent that she is and has been a partner with bill excellenton over the 40 years, i think, that she 40 yeaes some credit and she -- no? >> robert, i don't know if you're going to win this one. likely better just to -- >> her health policy, i was there in the white house when she worked night and day to try to craft a health policy.d there's been no first lady in my -- [applause] >> and it failed. and it failed. >> we are going to move to closing statements, we are goin> to be conscious of the time. we are going to do this in the reverse order. jennifer you are up three minutes on the clock. so i totally want to lighten it up a little bit. so in honor of tonight i have constructed an ode to this munk
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debate with apologizes tosanity dr. seuss. bob and i have spoken tonight against the resolution, america is already great, trump is not the solution, well, many canadians believe him a chump, americans will not elect a president trump. if his ri is any guide, please don't despair we never had a president with that color hair. [laughter] >> so sad that newt and laura have not come to grips, ponder for a moment trump's psychology, rationale for running is he, you ask why does his bluster seem so sure is it because he's so insecure, his language forceful, he seems super strong for a 7-year-old. [laughter]old.
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>> manipulated by flattery, his hands near the launch code when he overheats, he insults allies and when he's done he's bromancin putting or kim jong un. we could care less that he's twice divorce but he do care about the jobs he's outsource, i will back the job that is were let go but mixed up in china and méxico. tonight one reason we cannot let trump' are you -- refusal for transparency. his global investors are at such a scale that trump foreign policy would be for sale. he's the candidate of america firstism spewing antiimmigrant racism and building huge walls
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part of his plan must be related to the size of his hands. [laughter] [applause] >> that wall will block bad guys from méxico, weird, there are no bad guys here in ontario and hio issues with women and what it reveals since he likes to spin a in tiaras and heels punish the woman who exercise choice, criticizing the sound of hillary's voice, bleeding out vile like a glow hard, i think it's time to play that woman card. so no pressure. no pressure tonight vote as your conscious dictates. the election just turns on the outcome of the munk debates. [laughter] [applause]
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>> i would say it's very difficult to follow dr. seuss tonight. i think there's some connection with us, jennifer on that. i have a rap if you guys wouldn't mind. no, i'm totally kidding. [laughter] >> that would be really tragic a blond american rapper, vanilla ice part two.t. poetry that's really funny and notwithstanding. america is in decline and i am a daughter of a working-class couple. my mom was a waitress until she was 14 year's old, her hands nodded up with arthritis. she died at age 79 not having enough time for retirement but she worked really hard for her children.
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she wore the same coat for -- winter coat, i don't know, 40 years, my father ran a car wash. we picked tobacco, we picked blueberries, peaches, we delivered newspapers, we did jobs because there's dignity in work and we had to because that's how we got by. and i learned from my mother that when something is true, say it. when something is wrong, fight against it. don't be afraid even if you're in a room of skeptics, smile and try to share your story. the story of america is very complicated. but in 240 some odd years, we didn't get to this place to then to see it all go down the drain, not because of one party failing but because of both parties failing our country and our people. we have real unemployment in america, underemployment and
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people taking part-time jobs because they really can't find the work they want. at about 12.6%. most people that newt talked about were in despair have given up looking for work altogether. i think donald trump is the only person right now to make america great again because the alternatives will continue us on the path of same decline, same division on our streets, frankly between the races, between the poor and the rich, immigrant and nonimmigrant because without prosperity and without the dignity of work, without the ability to make a better living, america will not continue to exist as it does today. and that might sound alarmist, oh, that's never going to happen, but in a scenario where we have the rise of china, russia and america in decline, my friends, that is not a good scenario for this beautiful
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country where we are sitting ani standing in today. [applause] >> donald trump will make america great again. >> well, as you can see the 2016 election has worn me down. [laughter] >> i was 6'2 before it. [laughter] >> i'm also getting old. you know, i remember harry truman as president, i remember the eisenhower-stevenson election. i remember an america that did feel very different than the one that i am witnessing today. part of what has happened to
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your neighbor to the south is frustration and anker -- anger and anxiety. two-thirds of americans are living paycheck to paycheck today and jobs are becoming less secure and for the first time in memory, most americans believe their children will not do as well as they are doing. and to that extent, i agree with our debating opponents but i think that the vision we believe is better for america is sharply different. part of the anger and part of the fear and part of the anxiety in america today has found its way into a kind of viciousness,s a name calling, inability of people to talk with one anothera
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across boundaries of party and class and race and it is vitally important, and i say this as somebody who is getting older and served secretary of labor in the clinton administration, who has served even a republican administration, something else that i will tell you tonight if you can keep under your hats. [laughter] >> but we have to learn all of us to work together and work together better. donald trump to my mind is xenophobia, narcism, represents temperament and character that's very dangerous for the united states. he needs to be reputated.
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i want to ask the 14% of you that are still with trump, i want to ask you to come to our side for the simple reason thatt i want americans to know thati here in canada you know right from wrong and repuduate this person who should have never been nominated to be president of the united states . >> well, first of all thank you. it's been a lot of fun. i think you can tell that all four of us like to live in a world of words and are fairly good at it, but i want to pose one question in the way of measuring that question and i think donald trump is a risk. when you have somebody totally
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outside politics and entrepreneurial business person, then by definition to bring them at the very top is a risk. let me be clear about that. but i also think that the current path earn is an even bigger risk and this is what i ask you over the next few weeks as you read newspapers or watch tv news. how many terrorist attacks does it take in europe, in the united states, whether i think now a humanitarian crisis in nigeriain because of boko haram, how many places do we have to have disasters to begin to believe that the current policies aren't working. i recommend to all of you a couple of book, sam quiñones, study of mexican heroin and oxycodone and breath-taking and disturbing picture of what's happening in america to people who have lost hope. i urge you to look at it and
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every day when you read about the next overdoes, the next loss of life, the next 22-year-olds who should still be with us, ask yourself, you go from george w. bush saying there's an access of evil, he names three countries, one of them is iran. we are currently sending iran billions of dollars and day by day we are learning that thens deal is even worse. you think the iranians have changed? the largest state supporters of terrorist on the planet and we are sending them billions of dollars. do you think that's going to work? so every time you turn around the system is not working. the next riot, the next violence, you think this has worked? and my poise is pretty simple.
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i helped create a majority in 40 years, i was speaker of the house and worked with bill clinton to reform welfare, i'm genuinely frightened, not just for the united states but for all of western civilization and you just read the papers, put the dots together and you decide which is the bigger risk more of the stuff that isn't working or taking a gamble in real change. [applause] >> well, ladies and gentlemen, we begin the week with uninspiring less than terrific debate. we ended the week, we ended friday with debate on u.s. politics that i wanted to watchd and you gave it to us tonight. please, let's thank debaters for
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a fantastic -- thank you. [applause] >> thank you, everybody, that was a great debate. so we have luxury tonight but we don't have the responsibility of voting in november but we yet to cast a ballot now. all 3,000 of you in this hall have a ballot, you received a second ballot on your weigh in -- >> remember the drinks i promised you. >> the margaritas for the 14%. you will have the opportunity to think about your vote. we are going to quickly take a look what results were at the start of the evening again, we
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began tonight's debates with an agree/disagree vote. those numbers, i believe, were 14% in favor of the motion. the rest 86% oppose. you're split on whether you can change your minds or not. let's see if that happens. all of you there's ballot boxes on the way out of the hall and we will tally those results around 9:00 o'clock. those of you watching this broadcast right now on c-span, elsewhere, the results would be on our social media feed, alsosf shortly after 9:00 p.m. so again, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for being part of a terrific munk debate. to the ballot, to the bar to the margaritas, let's do it. let's [applause] >> newt gingrich and laura engram were later declared the
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winners in munk debate after showed 5% increase for those who support resolution that donald trump can make america great again. a clear majority rejected the motion with 80% of the audience voting in opposition. >> the next president making appointments to the supreme court of the united states will be president donald trump. >> with hillary clinton in the white house, the rest of the world will never forget why they have always looked up to the united states of america. >> c-span's campaign 2016 continues on the road to the white house with the vice presidential debate mike pence and tim kaine tuesday night live in farmville, virginia beginning at 7:30 p.m. eastern with a preview of the debate. at 8:30 the predebate briefing for the audience.
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at 9:00 p.m. live coverage of the debate followed by viewer reaction. the 2016 vice presidential debate watch live on c-span, watch live and any time on demand at
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>> their respective books on big data and the attica prison uprising. and booktv visits pueblo, colorado, to visit the city's literary sites. that's just a few of the programs you'll see on booktv this weekend. for a complete television schedule, booktv, 48 hours of nonfiction books and authors. television for serious readers. now we kick off the weekend with miriam horn's talk on conservation in america. >> good evening, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the rare book room. my name is kaylen.