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  Clinton and Trump Surrogates Discuss East Asia Policy  CSPAN  October 11, 2016 2:00pm-3:31pm EDT

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here. i have had the opportunity to represent the wonderful diversity of the fourth district for the past year and after almost two years. and it is been my honor and my privilege to do that. i have gotten to know you. i do know your families, and this is not just about a job to me. you have become my neighbors and my friend of what you do know that i believe we still live in the greatest country on earth. it certainly is worth fighting for and it is worth saving. we should never let anyone tell us any different. you know, we are going to be able to have an opportunity, an opportunity to make sure the nancy pelosi does not become the speaker of the house, an opportunity to hold onto a republican congress so that we can be a check and balance to whatever is the president, and opportunity to look within instead of looking without. i think it's important for us to be able to vote. ..
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>> i want to thank the voters of the fourth congressional district. i've been out about meeting you. i know that you have seen better times and i want to say they are coming back. you know, every time i've gone into a booting booth, i have gotten tears into my eyes because i think about all of the people in the history of the world that live without that right. that is such a basic right. i think about all the people who head their blood for that right. i hope you all will vote. i hope you will watch mailboxes and get ballots back and remember those people who haven't had that right.
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thank you all very much. >> thanks this evening to mia love and doug owens. thanks to the utah debate commission and executive director nina for their efforts to ensure in this election cycle . now, whether you intend to vote by mail or in person, the utah debate commission reminds you election day is tuesday november 8th. if you have questions please contact your county clerk's office. in south lake city i'm ken, good evening. [applause]
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[music] ♪ ♪ ♪ >> back to live programming now as surrogates from the clinton and trump campaigns discuss their candidates' views of east asia policy ahead and just getting under way. >> kurt campbell, ph.d in
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international relations from oxford. he was in office in the u.s. navy and joint chief of staff and the chief of naval operations special intelligence unit. he taught at the john f kennedy school of harvard, numerous capacities in the u.s. government including deputy assistant for asian pacific, deputy of specialty counselor, i know him from his position as assistant secretary of state for east asian and pacific affairs where he served june of 2009 to february of 2013, when i served as chairman at u.s. house foreign affairs of asia in the pacific. dr. campbell is currently the founder and ceo of the asia group consulting with international businesses and organizations and prior to that he founded strategic --
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strategia, a private consulting firm. peter hoeskstra received mab from michigan law school of business and became affiliated with the furniture maker and eventually becoming the vice president of marketing. he's one of the few members of congress who have been executive in foreign 500. he wrote his bicycle across congressional district as he campaigned in subsequent elections. we were remembers of the same freshman class and entered congress together in january of 1993. congressman hoekstra was selected for membership on
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intelligence where he served with congresswoman jane harman who is the president and ceo of woodrow institute, was one of the handful of members to be periodically briefed with highly sensitive i was concerning the security of the nation. he also served on the education and workforce committee. he left congress after nine terms. he is the founder of his own consulting firm,hoekstra and joined the investigative project on terrorism in 2014 as a showman senior fellow, frequent contributor to cnn, fox news and other television and printed media. members of the audience will be given opportunity to ask questions, questions of foreign
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policy and security, questions limit today 30 seconds, that's it. no speeches. a lot of people that will have questions and they came here to hear these people and not you, just your questions. both of these men are guests and been gracious with their time and now i have the opportunity to hand the program over to mark, 38 veteran, career democrat, career democrat -- [laughter] >> excuse me. >> said it wrong. forgive me for saying it wrong. mark is a 38-year-old career diplomat, served as a dcm in korea, iceland and mongolia among other posts. latest post was embassy london and mark's various capacities he
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helped organized among other high-level events in london, g-20, the international security conference in seoul in 2012 and 2014 nato summit. he was awarded the superior honor award for work on implementing the peace corps in boss --bosnia. >> the event is a -- not to debate about general politics. we are going to have a conversation about foreign politics. i'm going to ask each guest to make opening statements and i will have questions of my own. so start with secretary campbell. >> thank you very much. i want to thank congressman for
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leadership of that organization, thank mark for service and congressmen and it's a pleasure to hear you today. it's an opportunity to explore issues that would be of manifest importance to the united states going forward. let me just say all of us traveled the region in asia and as you listened to conversations carefully in every capital there are the obvious concerns, what's going on in china, foreign policy, concerns about provocations in north korea, missile and nuclear tests, anxieties about regime changes and big problems lurking in terms of security and territorial issues, but right now i have to say probably the top of the list are not any of these concerns. the number one issue that animates the thinking of most people in asia is what's going on in the united states. and i think we have to recognize that the united states has
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played a essential role in asia's history in the last 40 years. bringing prosperity and opportunity and it has linked us in a pacific community that has been in the best strategic interest of the united states. over the course of this campaign, fundamental issues associated with that role have been called into question. will we support the continuation of nonproliferation regime or encourage nations to break out of that, how would we treat our treasured and trusted allies, japan, south korea and others, how will we engage with china, would we take a purposeful approach or would we cut deals on the side? these are the issues that frankly animate discussions
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across asia and in addition to the tone, the timber of this campaign, the questions that will remain even after the resolution of this unfortunate political contest will continue. and i believe personally that the best person to address those issues is secretary clinton, hopefully president elect clinton in which a person who has more experience, more time on the ground, more time with senior leaders and diplomats in asia than any lead e running for highers office will be in a position to reassure asian friends of the strength of our commitment, the world that we seek to play in asia going forward with the recognition that the lion share of the 21st century is going to be written there. that's as the down payment on what i hope will be a discussion on deeper issues. >> thank you.
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>> great to be with you today. i wasn't exactly what my freb was going to say but i was one of those individuals that has made what many believe to have been a successful transition from the world of business to the world of politics. people are, you know, questioning, you know, can someone from the business world actually move in to politics and be successful and what we have seen is that, yeah, that can happen. many of the values and what you learn in the private sector are transferable politics. politics and business are very different. they're different words but the stills that you need to be successful in business are very similar to the types of skills that you need to be successful in politics. i got ready for this session, one of the things that seems
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that everybody has been talking about is that just about all of our friends and allies in asia recognition that the policies that we've had in place for a number of years, a collaborative process, process that we have developed together jointly, that it hasn't worked or hasn't been successful and a number of people whether it's in japan, korea, or other places who are looking at the situation and said it's time to go back and start from ground zero and do a full assessment of what our strategy needs to be to confront the challenges that are out there. it doesn't mean to go to ground zero and challenge the relationships or the friendships that we have in asia, but how we coordinate and work with our friends and our allies to recognize what the challenges
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are and how we can develop a successful strategy to confront those because the strategies that we've had in place frankly have not been successful. so it will be a collaborative approach. it's a prooct is that i -- practice that i have used and donald trump has used effectively to bring people together and to develop a consensus and to move a strategy forward. we recognize -- and i just wrote a book on libya where we confounded a lot of strategies that you should have integrated into a foreign policy and we turned it head over heels and we will probably get into that as well, but our objective from the trump campaign standpoint and
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from a president trump is to recognize that the strategies that we've had in place on some of the key issues have not worked very effectively, that we need to work with our friends in the region to develop new strategies to move forward and that it has to be developed in a collaborative framework and perhaps most importantly is that we need to develop those strategies in a collaborative manner, not only overseas but perhaps most importantly here in the united states because foreign policy is hard, it's difficult, there are no easy answers, no quick fixes to the issues and challenges that we face. we need to develop a strategy that has bipartisan support and
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that is sustainable. we cannot be in a position where we recently been in where our friends and allies look to the united states and elections become the topic of discussion because the fear is that with the change in administration that our foreign policy will take a dramatically difference course. foreign policy, it's hard. to move a ship and move it to the right direction in foreign policy takes a long time, so you need to develop policies that you may have adjustments between administrations but you will not see major differences that people worry about on foreign policy. there has to be something sustainable if we are actually
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-- if america is going to continue to be effective on the international stage, we have to be a trusted and relied upon ally because we are predictable in how we will work and where we want to move in the future. so with that, looking forward to whatever questions you may have. it's great to be at kei, thank you. >> we will start with trade, i think. the prime minister of singapore suggested that u.s. credibility and dependentability with t.t. p. neither candidate can support it. >> first of all, general observation about --
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>> surrogates this afternoon from the clinton and trump campaigns talking about candidates views on east asia policy for the future. we will work to get the signal back, in the meantime you're watching c-span2.
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>> again, some technical issues with signal and programming korea institute of america and look at u.s.-east asia policy in the future. while we wait to reestablish that programming, let me tell you about the other programming that we have coming up for you. we have three read to the white house events. hillary clinton and former vice president al gore are campaigning in miami today. that'll be live on c-span starting at 3:00 p.m. eastern in about 40 minutes from now. donald trump will be speaking to supporters at a rally in panamá city, florida, 8:30 eastern is the start time for that and on this network c-span2. tonight a pair of hour-long
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interviews separately. gary johnson will start at 8:00 p.m. and we will also hear from the green party jill stein at 9:00 p.m. and open our phones and get your take, your tweets to the candidates, both of those coming up tonight on c-span. >> campaign 2016 coverage continues on c-span with live
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debate with u.s. and governors' races, today republican debate with pat mccory and cooper, republican senator mike lee and democrat misty snow debate for the utah senate and on thursday afternoon, pennsylvania eighth district congressional debate between republican bryan and democrat steve. at 7:00 for the north carolina u.s. senate. on friday night 8:00 eastern between ron johnson and former democrat senator are you -- rus feingold. listen on the c-span radio app. >> before the final debate
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between hillary clinton and donald trump, we are looking back to past presidential debates. this saturday at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span the 1984 debate between president ronald reagan and walter mondel. >> we must understand that we are a democracy. we are a government by the people and when we move it should be for severe and extreme reasons that serve our national interest and end up with the stronger country behind it. >> i will not make age an issue of this campaign. i am not going to exploit for political purposes my opponent's youth and inexperience. [laughter] >> then the 1988 presidential. >> we can bring that deficit down steadily, 20, $30 billion a
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year build economic growth, build a good u strong future for america and invest in those things which we must invest in, economic development, good jobs. >> i wish he would join me, as a matter of fact in appealing to the american people for the ballot's budget amendment and for the line item veto. i would like to have that line item vetoed for the president because i think that would be extraordinarily helpful. >> and the 2008 debate with illinois senator barack obama and arizona senator john mccain. >> the situation today cries out for bipartisanship. senator obama has never taken leaders on his party on a single issue and we need to reform and so let's look at our records as well as our rhetoric. that's really part of your mistrust here. >> so we are going to have to make investments but we also have to make spending cuts. you heard senator mccain
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proposing spending but actually i am cutting more than i'm spending so it will be a net spending cut. the key is whether or not we've got priority that is are working for you. >> watch past presidential debates saturday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. watch any time at and listen at 8:00 p.m. eastern on the c-span radio app. >> we have permanently lost signal so we will not be able to bring it to you live. however, we are recording and plan to show in your schedule. watch for it. you can go to our website at to find out when it's coming up. john mccain and ann kurt patrick
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debated. we will show you that. >> first of all, could i mention that i agree with congresswoman kirk patrick about the importance of infrastructure. that's why i was able to get i11 until the highway bill which will have a corridor that goes all the way to southern border to canada and i appreciate congresswoman kirk patrick support for that amendment that i got in the bill. i'm in the arena, if someone wants to say something disparaging of me, i understand that. i don't understand it when it's said about other men and some women who have been imprisoned. i did not like it. i spoke out strongly against it. i spoke out strongly on several other issues where i thought that mr. trump was absolutely wrong. i've not been shy about it.
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the son of the khan family, a man who literally sacrificed his life to safe others as he approached an ied. all of those things i thought were very wrong but then when mr. trump attacks women and demeans the women in our nation and in our society, that is a point where i had just have to part company. it's not pleasant for me to renounce the nominee of my party. he won the nomination fair and square, but this is -- i have daughters, i have friends, i have so many wonderful people on my staff that cannot be degraded and demeaned in that fashion, and so i believe that he -- i had to withdraw my support just as i cannot support hillary clinton. >> and we will show you now that debate with senator mccain and his challenger democratic
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representative kirk patrick. they discuss hillary clinton, supreme court appointments, veterans care, terrorism and the iraq war. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> good evening and welcome to the special u.s. senate election 2016 debate between senator john mccain and representative anne kirk patrick. tonight's debate is a joint effort brought to you by arizona pbs and the arizona republic. i'm ted simmon and with me ivonne sánchez, political report from the arizona republic. we are broadcasting live from our studios at arizona pbs and school of journalism on the downtown phoenix campaign. we are also joined by radio
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listeners. tonight's debate is also being broadcast by kuat tv. viewers across the country u -- they're watching too on c-span. tonight we will hear from candidates compete to go represent arizona in the u.s. senate. this debate is an open exchange of ideas, opportunity for give and take between candidates for one of the state's most important offices. as moderators we will try to ensure that all sides get a fair shake to get a fair say. there are a few ground rules. once we ask a candidate a question, they will have 90 questions to answer without interruption. the other candidate gets 45 seconds for rebuttal, again, without interruption. and then we will have to additional two minutes for open discussion of that topic. at the end of the debate, each candidate will have one minute for closing statements.
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topics were chosen by journalists from arizona pbs and arizona republic which include ac and lavos and also include questions from you the public via social media and the public insight network. let's now meet the candidates. republican john mccain was elected to u.s. senate in 1986 and seek to go sixth term as senator. he was the republican's party nominee for president in 2008. democrat anne kirk patrick represents first district and represented the district since 2013. she also held the same seat from 2009 to 2011. she previously served as a member in the arizona house of representatives in 2005 to 2007. earlier we do numbers to get to see who gets the first question and that honor goes to senator mccain. >> senator mccain, you have
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complained about congressional gridlock, congress has fail today consistently pass a budget in recent years and americans disapprove of the job congress is doing. you have been part of this congress for many years, so why do you want to return? >> i want to return because there's so much to do whether it be unlocking the gridlock in congress as we have, for example, on the arms services committee in which i'm a chairman. we almost unanimously put a bill to protect the men and women who are serving the military and it's all most always unanimous. we need to do a lot more of that. we also need to reach across the aisle more often. everybody knows that. we know that sequestration is harming the men and women who are serving in country. most of all, i'm running on my record and my service to the state of arizona and america. i have led a national security, i have led in taking care of the problems and issues that confront the state of arizona
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whether it be a fish up in willow mohave county or yuma heritage crossing down in yuma or keeping 810 and i've contributed and it's not an accident that i'm reviewed as one of the four most leaders in congress not only on national security but for the good of the state of arizona. so i'm proud of my record and i will continue to be known as the mavericks and i will continue to fight my own party when necessary and to try to form the coalitions that i have done as chairman of the arms services committee and many other issues that i have been involved in, i have a long history of accomplishments and i'm not only running on that record but on the difficult times what i can do for the sate of arizona and america. >> thank you, senator. congresswoman. >> i get asked that question all
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of the time, my idea is term limits in congress. so i think we should have two 3-year terms, that's a total of six years in the house, two 6-year terms in the senate. that's a toaltal of 12 years. you do those back to back, that's 18 years in washington, that's enough. we need to clear the way for new idea, now relationships so that we can bust through that gridlock, if you think about your technology what we were using 12 years ago is obsolete. what we use now is going to be obsolete in ten years. let's have term limits. >> she writes regardless of who gets elected in november, how will you work across the aisle to make sure policy is passed and we stay out of stalemates. >> first, on the issue of term limits, the voters determine
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term limits. at one time they term-limited congresswoman kirk patrick and she came back. it's the voters who decide what term limits are. the most important thing is you have to have the knowledge and the background to get things happen. i have the years of experience in the military, i have years of experience in traveling all over this state from yuma to -- to different parts of our state of arizona where i know the people and i know the issues. we are going to have mind in superior thanks to language in authorization bill which will provide 25% of america's copper supply and higher thousands of people, the reason why 810 is flying in combat in iraq and syria is because we made sure
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the air force didn't retire them. it's experience and knowledge that leads to effectiveness and you have to have the respect of your colleagues. >> the question was working across the aisle. >> on the arms services committee, we always turn out a bill for 53 years now. that's the only bill that authorizes that gets through the congress. we republicans and democrats work together for the good of the men and women who are serving this nation and the good of the country. that's one of my proudest accomplishments is our ability to help the min and women who are serving defend this nation and i'm very proud of them. >> so congresswoman, how would you envision working with a president trump? >> sure, you know i was born and raised on the white mountain and apache nation. my mother's family were republican ranchers and my dad's family was democratic businessmen. but at the end of the day, we were all family, all arizonans,
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all americans, so i have a unique ability to find that common ground and i'm sure i could find that with the president to get things done. the big story in arizona is as you know, i lost my election in 2010 to paul gosar and we were both reelected in 2012 after redistricting and we came together and we said, let's put our divisive history behind us, let's come together and work together to get things done for arizona. and we have a very good working relationship, a democrat and a republican, but i will tell you, that's so rare in washington, d.c. they call us arizona's odd people. >> our next question goes to you congress wowm, the presidential nominee of your party is deemed untrust worthy by a significant share of the american electorate, why do you trust hillary clinton and why do you support her policies? >> i think she's the most experience knowledgeable candidate we have had for
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president in years. i don't agree with anything in policies. i have been fighting against epa for coal fire electrical plants. what i want to do is transition into alternative energies. people need those jobs. and so we are going to have to have a plan to do this transition so that we don't lose any of those jobs. >> 45 seconds rebuttal. >> hillary clinton has disqualified herself to be president of the united states. i was a good friend of a man named chris stevens, he was the embassador to libya and i knew him and met him. i went to andrews air force base when the coffins came home where those brave americans that were murdered in a terrorist act. hillary clinton spoke to one of
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the parents to one of those dead young americans and said, i'm going to get the guy that made the hateful video that caused your son's death. we now know that according to her messages that she was sending, e-mail that she knew at the time that it was a terrorist attack. i don't know how you can lie to the grieving parents, standing next to the flag-draped coffin of their son. for me that did it. >> given her high number of unfavorabilities and the high number of people who do not trust her in part because of this, do you think your support of her in any way damages your credibility? >> i don't think so. and, look, you know, my heart goes out to the families that lost loved ones in benghazi but there were at least seven congressional investigations and they all came to the same conclusion. there was no wrongdoing but the majority leader to have house kevin mccarthy actually said
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they only did that for political reasons to embarrass hillary. >> senator, again, benghazi situation has been politicized, some say to extreme measures others say that perhaps it's not been investigated enough. where do you stand on this and, again, how do you -- how do you society congresswoman kirk patrick with benghazi? >> i don't associate her with benghazi. i associate her with hillary clinton who stewardship of the state department and was a decision-maker after gadhafi was killed, we walked away and lindsey graham and i wrote a piece. you can't walk away or things are going to go hell in a hand basket. but the point is that benghazi has been lied about and lied about and lied about. we know that from the emails and tragically we now have a director of the federal bureau of investigation that has
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destroyed the credibility of the fbi by allowing servers information to be destroyed, taking actions which have nothing to do with his responsibilities and so we now have, yes, there was plenty of investigations of benghazi and there should have been because of the needless deaths of these brave young americans, but at the same time there has been a cover-up, the likes of which i have not seen and i believe that the fact some day will come out that this was not an accidental unprovoked demonstration. it was an act of terror that took the lives of four brave americans and it was covered by the white house. >> referencing the emails that you spoke about, senator mccain, do you agree with the way hillary clinton's emails -- >> i don't. no, i don't. she could have handled it better.
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i take objection to the senator's disparaging remarks about the fbi. you know, i worked my way through the university of arizona, earned a law degree and started my career as prosecutor, i have worked with the fbi. they do a lot of the investigations on tribal land and we have wonderful fbi agents. i have a very good relationship with law enforcement in this state. >> senator -- >> could i just say, i respect the fbi a great deal too but what mr. comey has done is established two standards, when general petraeus revealed classified information he paid a penalty. secretary clinton was on a private server, access to all kinds of classified information and she paid no penalty. there's clearly a double standard. >> dowel standard, congresswoman? >> no, it's not a double standard. she admits that she could have handled it differently. there's been so much on that
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emails, when we really should be talking about, you know, what do we do to stimulate our economy, what about starting a major, major national infrastructure project. i sit on the transportation and infrastructure committee. we were hoping to be able to pass a package about a six-year national infrastructure package. it would create hundreds of thousands of good-paying jobs. that's what we should be talking about. >> senator mccain, the next question goes to you. the presidential nominee of your party has made controversial remarks about women, mexican immigrants, muslims, disabled people and prisoners of war including you. over the weekend you withdrew your support from donald trump, one of our social media questions has come in, this is from dave in northern arizona, he's basically asking, what took you so long? >> first of all, i mentioned that i agree with congresswoman kirk patrick about the importance of infrastructure.
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that's why i was able to get i11 into the highway bill which will then have a corridor that goes all the way from southern border all the way to canada and i appreciate congresswoman kirk patrick's support for that amendment that i got in the bill. i'm in the arena if someone wants to say something disparaging of me, i understand that. i don't understand it when it's said about other men and some women who have been imprisoned, i do not like it and i spoke on issues that mr. trump was absolutely wrong. i have not been shy about it. the son of the khan family, a man who literally sacrificed his life to save others as he approached an eid. all of those things i thought were very wrong. but then when mr. trump attacks women and demeanses the women in our nation and in our society, that is a point where i had just
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have to part company. it's not pleasant for me to renounce the nominee of my party. he won the nomination fair and square but i have daughters, i have friends, i have so many wonderful people on my staff, they cannot be degraded and demeaned in that fashion. and so i believe that he -- that i had to withdraw my support just as i cannot support hillary clinton. >> 45 seconds rebuttal congresswoman. >> look, dave, i've been asking that question for over a year. john mccain has been supporting donald trump over 60 times has endorsed him. it wasn't enough when trump insulted the khan family, gold-star family who called on john mccain to renounce trump. it wasn't enough when trump made fun of a disabled reporter and and the whole disabled community called on john mccain to denounce trump.
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but, no, he wouldn't do that. he even made fun of veterans suffering from ptsd, no, john mccain wouldn't renounce him. he's been trying to run -- trump's disparaging remarks for the last year while at the same time endorsing him over 60 times. >> i wonder since i have renounced my support when congresswoman kirk patrick is going to renounce her support for hillary clinton who has continuously lied and lied next to flag-draped of their son saying i'm going to get the guy who made the hateful video when we know she was e-mailing daughter and others that it was a terrorist attacks, lies about lies about server and it's not an accident that most americans do not trust her. >> can we expect any sort of unendorsement from you? >> no, you don't.
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>> in going back to you, do you think your credibility has been damaged by supporting donald trump? >> the people in this country and arizona know me. people in arizona know my service to tem and -- them and this probably doesn't have to do with this debate. i worry about the republican party. we are going to have a lot of work to do after this election is over. >> so if i take your press answer correctly, you're equating what hillary clinton regarding messagings and benghazi with -- >> lying to the family of a slain young man who is a victim of terrorism, lying to them while they're standing next to the coffin, the other things are bad enough, but lying to the grieving family, that to me is like -- not unlike, frankly, mr. trump demeaning and degrading money. >> as well as muslims, disabled people, prisoners of war, mexican --
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>> all of those things. when a person legitimate wins the nomination of the party, then obviously it deserves that support. i have expressed my disagreements. i expressed my disagreements with ronald reagan when he sent marines and tragically killed. i said that george w. bush had to fire secretary of state when we were losing the war in iraq. when i was running, i said i would rather lose a campaign than lose a war so there's no doubt about my criticism when i see that there's something that's wrong. >> so who you're going to vote for? >> lindsey graham. a lot of people like him. seriously, i cannot vote for either one. >> moving onto immigration -- >> can i say one more point about that? john mccain has been running away whether he trusts donald trump's finger on the nuclear button.
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senator, i want to ask you, do you trust donald trump's finger on the nuclear arsenal. do you support hillary clinton's finger on the nuclear button? >> i do. >> no, i don't. >> you still haven't answered the question. >> i just answered the question, no and if you want to continue to support someone who has continuously lied to american people, lie after lie after lie about server, the person who had the reset button, the reset button and everything was going to be great. look at the world the day hillary clinton became secretary of state and look at the world today. you will see a failed policy and threats to the united states of america and attacks on the united states of america that our director of the cia says are going to continue.
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that's part of the leadership team that hillary clinton was part of. >> real quickly, did you support the idea of donald trump's finger on the button until this past weekend. >> i did. we have seen many times, you could go all the way back to harry truman that the office has made the person. this is academic discussion, my friend because i no longer support donald trump to be president of the united states. >> moving on to the next question. there are 11 million undocumented immigrants living waiting for cowng to implement a comprehensive immigration reform plan, something that has not done since 1986. you both agree that reform is needed. congresswoman kirk patrick, you have an advocate for immigration reform but when the democratic party controlled both chambers
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of congress and the white house immigration reform was not enacted, why should voters expect anything different if they return you to office? >> let me u just say as a former prosecutor, i'm all about enforcing the law. it's a moral issue. it's very broad base, it's dreamers and we start our meetings with the stories of the dreamers and what's happened to their famous and how this is just tragic situation for them. so i introduced legislation that would allow dreamers to work on capitol hill because i think dreamers were working on capitol
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hill and people like senator mccain could hear their stories. we would pass comprehensive immigration reform in a heart beat. we think right now we've got the votes in the house to do that but our leadership senator mccain's leadership won't bring it up for a vote. >> senator. >> i'm really glad you mentioned the fact that in 2009 when barack obama was elected president of the united states had 60 vote ins -- votes in the senate overwhelming in the house. do you think that barack obama and kirk patrick brought it up, of course, not. they wanted to do obamacare, the disaster of obamacare which bill clinton, craziest thing we have ever done. instead of that, they -- they did the stimulus package, they did obamacare, they did a whole bunch of other things which were
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very damaging to the country and then i was able to get immigration reform through the united states senate. i promise you that the dreamers were part of immigration reform u but we also have to have a secure border and that border is going to be secure with legislation that i was able to get through in the nda including the use of drones and towers and increasing the border patrol who, by the way, border patrol have endorsed me. i'm very proud of their endorsement. >> senator, we hear about enforcing the border, securing the border. what does a secure border mean? when do you know the border is secured? >> you can have statistics that could show that, but in israel, they have towers and we are constructing these towers now at
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about $3 million each all along our border. i got in the defense authorization bill requirement that the drones that are flying out would also be use today patrol the border and we can do it with technology and also additional border patrol personnel. i worked very closely with the border patrol. that's why they endorsed me. that's why i'm surprised to have endorsement along with law enforcement which have also endorse med for -- endorsed me for reelection. we can and that's another problem lurking, manufactured heroin problem and it's killing people and we have to do whatever necessary on that security. >> on that point, he says one major problem that i see on the streets i live on are drugs and widely reported that many of these illegal drugs come from
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across the border, how would you go about stopping this congresswoman? >> let me first address what it means to have a secure border. we have tribes that are on the border. i visit with them and i have friends who are ranchers down there. the border will be secured when they feel secure and they don't, but this is the very reason that we have to pass comprehensive immigration reform is so that the border patrol agents can focus on the criminal activity there and we've got to get this done. so, yeah, i'm all -- i have zero tolerance for the criminal-drug trafficking, sex trafficking at the border and that's why we have to have comprehensive immigration reform. >> going back to brit's question, how do you stop it? >> focusing border patrol agent agents' on the criminal element. >> could i just add, it takes 18 months for a border patrol agent
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once applies become a border patrol. that's wrong. we should have any member of the military, any veteran absolutely to be able to make that transition immediately. it's tough on the border. 115, 120-degree heat. we should be providing those border patrol agents that are on our southern border with hazardous duty with incentive pay because there's lots of them who like to be on a nicer environment. it's tough when you're sitting in a vehicle in this kind of heat. we need to provide them with the ib centive they need. we need to supply them with the support they need, we need technology which is a major factor and again, i couldn't be more proud that the border patrol agents who have i have u good relationship are endorsed candidacy. i also fixed their retirement system. >> moving onto question of illegal immigration, senator mccain, you've criticized president obama's expansion to
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dreamers, what would you do with the young undocumented immigrants that were brought to this country as children that were raised americans? >> it's easy i would pass the immigration reform that we passed through the united states senate and i was one of -- that was a major group of us that got it passed and obviously it's got to be part of all of comprehensive immigration refowrm, look, terrible things are hang right now to young people from guatemala, el salvador, honduras, they're being transported by these coyotes and mistreated terribly on the way, some of them are dying. we have to have them taken care of in those countries of origin where if they have a humanitarian issue, go to consul eat, go to embassy, staff those up so that they're not subjected. some of them are on top of trains and fall off trains and it's a requirement for us to have a secure border. that's another issue. right now as we speak bagdadi is
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sending people with secure apps into refugee flow which was caused by barack obama's failed policies and sooner or later they are going to try to get across our southern border. it has now become a national security issue. >> thank you, senator. cowng woman. >> nearly 15 years ago john mccain did introduce the dream act but when it came up for a vote in the senate he voted against it. now i just visited nogales talking to the community and entrepreneurs who are bringing economic development to the area and they said trump's idea of building a wall at the border is bad for arizona, but deporting 12 million people, that's personal. >> congress -- >> could i rebut that? >> sure. >> i voted because it was not part of comprehensive. it was part of comprehensive immigration reform throughout and everybody knows that. >> congresswoman going back to executive action, you supported
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them, the courts have found, though, those actions are unconstitutional yet hillary clinton has said she would go even further with these proikses, do you agree with that stance and which types of protections would you support? >> you know, i support protections to have dapa and daca, right now in arizona we have so many people now with the fear that they might be deported because of the supreme court's auction and this is why we have to have a full supreme court. john mccain right after justice scalia passed away said we shouldn't fill the supreme court for a year, for a year because i think the next president should be filling the position and he was supporting donald trump. we need to have a working supreme court and dapa and daca decision is an excellent example of that. >> what do you think, senator? what's going on with the supreme
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court and waiting so long to get this -- >> a number of years ago when the situation was reversed the vice president of the united states then senator joe biden went to the floor of the senate and said, hey, we can't have a vote, we have a vote coming up here, we can't take -- consider this. let's not have any consideration of a supreme court justice until after the election. i'm with joe biden. joe and i disagree on a lot. let the people decide and this vote and this election is one of the most important in history. on the issue -- the courts are more and more deciding that barack obama is acting unconstitutionally, barack obama said i've got a pen and i have a phone. this is not the first time on these immigration issues. he is -- he is violating his oath of office and the constitution of the united states and i don't say that likely. >> going back to the justice appointment, do you trust either
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of the major party candidates to appoint a supreme court justice? >> the constitution says that the president proposes and the senate disposes. i have confidence that if we can keep the majority, we republicans can keep the majority in the united states senate, we will scrutinize and we will be very, very studios about who we vote for. we could not afford -- america -- it would be tough times. >> respond, congresswoman. >> i'm not surprised that john mccain listens to somebody to washington after he has been there for 33 years. but here is what the arizona people are saying, they're saying john mccain, do your job, do the job that you were elected to do and that the taxpayers are paying you to do, confirm a supreme court justice.
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jowk -- john mccain once voted for merrick garland and now he won't even meet with them. >> do my job. the 810 is now on davis mountain. willo beach has -- i11, corridor from southern border to canada. one of the world east largest line -- copper lines in the world, 25% of america's copper supply will then be result of the copper. every foreign student that flies the f-35 will be trained at luke air force base. so i think i kind of think could make an argument that i'm doing my job. >> but we still have only 8 supreme court justices. >> we only have eight supreme court justices and i would much rather have eight supreme court justices than a justice who is
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liberal in the -- in the keeping of the practice of ruth ginsburg and the other who is are liberal and in my view not keeping in constitutions. their actions in my view are not in keeping with my interpretation of the constitution. this is what makes this election a very, very serious election. >> we move onto the next question involving health care. congresswoman, next year shaping to be a challenging year for many in arizona. it appears there's only one health insurance company. pema county will have two health insurers. you called the vote for the affordable care act. aca, you called that your proudest moment in congress. do you still hold onto that assessment considering what we are seeing now with the aca?
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.. when i first heard about the possibility that we would only have one carrier, i contacted the director of cms and said we need a plan. to make sure everybody has a choice. when i heard that point out, i talk with blue cross blue shield and they agreed to go in and provide that coverage. but this is an example of something we could been doing the last six years instead of continuing to repeal obamacare. over 60 times. we should working to fix it.
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john mccain's plan would add $187 billion to the deficit it would make health care more expensive for women because it would take away coverage for cancer screening and contraception. he even cosponsored a bill that would allow an employer to fire a single woman who got pregnant. mccain: nonsense. but the point is that no congresswoman kirkpatrick wants us to work together to fix it. the problem is that for the first time in history a major entitlement reform was ran to the congress of the united states without a single vote from the other side. i fought for weeks and weeks and weeks against obamacare and they would not allow us an amendment. it was not asked single and in a loud. no input from the minority party. we would being in the minority. now congresswoman kirkpatrick wants us to sit down and work together. here's how we work together.
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we repeal and replace it. right now it is so bad that the former president bill clinton said it's the craziest thing he had ever heard of, obamacare. and so we can fix the health system but it was based on a flawed premise and that is that we would take money from healthy young americans and spend it for the health care of less well older americans. and by the way, there is 14 of the 15 counties in arizona that have only one health care provider, and that's the one that barack obama and congresswoman kirkpatrick said if you like your policy you can keep it. if you like your doctor you can keep it. >> moderator: we got your rebuttal time. the idea of it it got problems e repeal it, get it out and replace it. kirkpatrick: i was at a wedding and the father of the pride told me aside tears streaming down his face and he said, ann, you
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know i'm a republican. you know i voted against you because of your health care vote. he said i wouldn't be here today to walk my daughter down the aisle if you had not voted for health care. i do want to go back to the days when someone with existing condition would have died and not been able to walk his daughter down the aisle. but we do have to fix it. there's no question about it and we really to address the increasing cost of prescription drugs. mccain: couldn't i just mentioned according to a gallup poll, majority of americans do not approve of the obamacare. 29% of americans according to gallup say that they have been harmed by obamacare. so i know you meet nice people at weddings but the fact is the majority of the american people have resoundingly rejected obamacare. has forced the existing conditions are concerned we could have risk pools to take of those people. nobody is ready to abandon them.
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>> thousands have been insured because of the affordable care act but many people are paying much more than these two for the same care or worse care. what is your message to you, excuse me to them? kirkpatrick: i just women than the other night who have private insurance and his insurance rates this year we're going to be 3006 or $50 a month and he said thank heavens he was able to get insurance through obamacare and his premiums about $500 a month. mccain: blue cross announced 1165% increase in their charges, 65%. the co-pays and deductibles are skyrocketing out of sight and that's why 21 million americans were predicted to have been part of obamacare and only 9 million half. the whole thing is collapsing like a house of cards.
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mccain:cards. >> moderator: would collapsed if congress instead of repeatedly trying to repeal the aca worked to try to improve it? mccain: we would be glad to try to fix it but it comes because is based on a flawed premise that i just described, we have to scrap it and start over. it was based on the wrong idea that we are going to penalize young people. those young people would rather pay the fine. by the way i have legislation that it is on one health care provider as there is in 14 of the 15 arizona counties, then they should not have to pay a fine. there's no choice. there's a doctor that they like that they can keep your it's a scam and the problem is that the cost is becoming prohibitive and we've got to change it and fix it. >> moderator: all right. onton tonex question regarding e economy. senator mccain, since the great recession the u.s. has seen some recovery but the
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rebound has been sluggish. what is your plan to accelerate job growth, to celebrate the economy? mccain: regulations and regulations and regulation. tens of thousands of regulations that have come out of the obama administration, whether they call arizona having navigable waters and washes and dry gulch is are now having those, shutting down our power plants, our coal-fired power plants which was incredibly expensive, too. literally regulating just about every aspect of our lives. when you look at the regulations that have issued over obamacare, there are about decide how many hours we can work and family they can't work and whether they be eligible for this and that. it's micromanagement. let's turn the government back to our governor at our legislature, and let's let the states decide these issues
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rather than it be a flood, 25,000 regulations have come out of this administration. since they've only got four months left, i'm sorry to tell you, you ain't seen nothing yet. kirkpatrick: i was born and raised in the mountains and that the time the area was a thriving timber industry. and that collapsed, the area where i was born plunged into poverty. it's been my vision and my work for arizona to build a strong diverse stable economy. we've gone through too many plan and bust cycles. we can't have that kind of economy until we first build a world-class education system, and would ask oppressive immigration reform. mccain: let me just mention two issues to determine the future of the state of arizona. fire and water. fire and water. 20% of our national forests have been consumed by force in the last 10 years. we're going to have to make some tough decisions on water and i'm
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glad to work with congresswoman kirkpatrick anybody else in with her cover and others. we have to work together because the issue is going to determine the future of our children and our grandchildren. i'm proud to work with jon kyl on a number of indian water settlements which are critical to the future of this want of water in arizona. >> you've talked about less regulation but how do we avoid the results that we saw in 2007 of the bush era economic plan of less regulations and tax cuts? mccain: the collapse of 2008 cannot have a lot to do with government regulation. it had a lot to do with the housing industry as we know. that's one reason will arizona was so badly hurt and that's why we're one of the slowest to recover. because we allow the housing industry to go completely out of control and, obviously, the stock market went with it your arizona suffered a great deal from it. the measures that we had to take
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were very difficult but the reason why we have not recovered sufficiently as we have from other recessions is because of this governments micromanagement of the economy and the government regulations which have stifled. let me just give you an example. if you cut the number of hours per week that a person can work and not, then also not be eligible for obamacare, then you are causing that employer to do things which make it difficult to really make a profit and hire additional individuals kinds of the idea fewer regulations and tax cuts did not have the factor were not a factor in the 2008, 2007 recession, are you by the? kirkpatrick: on not buying that. i saw so many families suffer in housing prices. i remember taking a walk in flagstaff, anatomical the second every house was being foreclosed on.
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it really hurt families and it didn't hurt the people on wall street who made more money. i mean, donald trump said it was an opportunity, a business opportunity for him. the other day when john mccain was a maverick and withstand up to his party, but now he has taken more money from wall street than any other sitting senator. he gave him the bailout. i've always opposed the bailout. mccain: there's a reason why this is the slowest recovery in history. because the stewardship of the economy of the last eight years. it really isn't a lot more public it than that speed we will mix it up a bit. knowing that people can go to each of the websites are more details on this, one word answer. arizona's i could've asked whether they want to increase the minimum wage to $12 by 2020, yes or no to support it? mccain: now. kirkpatrick: yes.
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mccain: that work pretty well. thank you so much. >> moving on to the va. the va as you know is in turmoil and has been for years regardless of what you have done to massive reforms to try to fix they neared of problems at a recent auditor generals report we wrote about extensively in the arizona republic, it's still critical of the agency and to have some patience are unable to get to the pool opponents in the time and manner. you have not fix the problems, congress has not fixed the problems. why not and how to fix it? kirkpatrick: i was the first member to aspirin independent inspection at the phoenix the when i first heard allegations. and were to protect the whistleblowers against retaliation. so i whistleblower protection act just passed the house. and if those brave people have not come forward we would never
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know what's going on at the va. i just finished doing a round of visits to all three of our be hospitals, the when of prescott, the one in phoenix and one in tucson. and after do that i have a veterans roundtable. i want to hear from them what their expense is with the veterans hospitals in the administration. when i was in tucson having my veterans roundtable, john mccain was on the radio blaming the veterans service organizations for the problems at the va. that's not going to fix the problems. again when he to work in a bipartisan way for our veterans. they've already paid the price. now get five of them with all our might. >> senator mccain. mccain: the highest honor -- can provide. look, after this terrible thing happened in the tragedy in phoenix a 50 brave veterans
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dying on a nonexistent waiting list i was asked to work with bernie sanders who was then the chairman of the va, the veterans' affairs committee. we worked hard. it was tough and competitive we made some significant reforms. among them are the choice guard that a veteran under certain conditions is able to go out and get health care from a provider. so far over 5 million appointments have been made. that was legislation senator sanders and i worked on and was able to get through congress. there's a java problem in america today and that is veterans who say. 8000 veterans in america commit suicide every day. 28 idea. 22 every day. i passed the clay hunt suicide prevention act, thanks to the family members of clay hunt, a young man who committed suicide, and we're working on this issue. by the way i'm proud of the city of phoenix for not having homeless veterans. >> moderator: the idea of a new director at the phoenix the
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hospital is not unusual. we've had seven in two years. the latest has a troubled history. your thought on that appointment kind but i'm easily had the opportunity to meet her. look, i know as a woman had difficult it is to rise up in the ranks in any kind of organization and so i welcome her to arizona. i want to give her a chance to. mccain: i'm afraid so but it's more of an indictment of the system, my friend. and that is to seven heads of the va in phoenix in three years max that's unacceptable. no organization can function effectively when you have three heads of it in three years. i think he's got a lot to prevent i think she's got a great deal to prove and so i'm willing to give her a chance also. but, frankly, the whole system cries out. book, do you know that in denver at the va tried to build a hospital and because $1.7 billion they still at the
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hospital? think about me veterans could be treated with that kind of money. and, finally, again i want a pattern to the same choice that someone on medicare does. >> we want to make sure with enough time for another question that voters care deeply about. this one is related to terrorism and national security. senator, over the past year we've seen terrorist attacks on u.s. cities from coast to coast. how do you propose keeping arizonans safe from attacks either inspired or sponsor by district like isis was. mccain: look at a map of the world in 2009 when barack obama came to office and look at it today. the world is in turmoil. the world is on fire as far as terrorism is concerned, right as we speak baghdad is getting people these encrypted apps i told you about. there's also what we call the self radicalized when. a young man sitting in front of
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the unit right now being self radicalized. he's willing to go out and take his life to take the life of others. first we got to go to rock and we did it with a small number of americans, kill them there, tell them you. is an ideological struggle that we are involved in to try to stop his radical islam which the president refuses to call islamic terrorism. and we're going to have this fight, and the problem is that due to barack obama's failure leading from behind, isis is metastasizing throughout the world, north africa, places like indonesia, malaysia of the places in the world because when america leads from behind, some other really bad people lead from in front. we need a leader who will lead. >> thank you, senator. congresswoman? kirkpatrick: with to keep our country safe. i this has to be destroyed. it is a two-pronged approach. we have to take out their
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leadership and went to prevent them from exporting care. john mccain solution is to send in more troops anytime there's a crisis, sent in more troops. i don't want to send any more troops in into we have a plan to bring them home and a plan to take care of them once they get home. mccain: i was the one that's ever losing the were in a back and read have this urge. and the one at the secretary of defense fire. that was with president george w. bush. thanks to inspired leadership and service and sacrifice we one. and then barack obama polled everybody out and the rest is history as al-qaeda the came isis and went to syria and morphed. and it didn't have to happen. >> moderator: were those troops pulled out as promised by president bush? mccain: no, no. ally that is being told is that some out we had to pull them out. it's not true. i was there in baghdad with lindsey graham and joe
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lieberman. i won't go through it. they were ready to state but obama said that they needed to have a status of forces agreement. now get 5000 american troops there. what is the requirement for the status of forces agreement? it's not there and it's not necessary. we are doing it incrementally which is a lot of us in the a little bit about warfare is called mission creep. >> moderator: congresswoman kirkpatrick says you want to see troops back into iraq. mccain: there are 4000 now agency as well as their gradually increasing and escorting. by the way of saying iraq the barack obama said we are leaving behind the freest, safest and most democratic iraq. tashfeen malitransit the want te troops in iraq? mccain: you need 100,000 person force, 10,000 americans in 90,000 sunnis because americans have special kinds of capabilities including air support and others to go in and take raqqa and you can do that
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and you can do in a short period of time. right now they have no strategy. kirkpatrick: john mccain is just not being truthful about the withdrawal from iraq. it wasn't george w. bush and john mccain knows that because in 2010 he put out on twitter congratulations, congratulate president bush for the pullout and how happy he was that that has been a compass. he should start telling the truth. mccain: the fact is that i wrote pieces and argued on the floor and we fought and predicted what would happen. and he did not pull them all out. they were not all pulled out until barack obama became president the united states. kirkpatrick: do you know what's interesting that we spent so much of this debate talking about financial issues. it doesn't surprise me because john mccain is to run for president. i'm going to be arizona's senator. i'd like to talk about some things that are important to arizonans like jobs transcendently to talk about it,
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to certain extent earlier but right now we are simply out of time. it's been a lively debate. it's now time for closing statement and earlier we do numbers to determine the order of closing statements. representing, represented ann kirkpatrick one that draw and became the first closing statement. kirkpatrick: it would be an honor to serve arizona as you next senator. might arizona roots are deep. on both sides of my family we have any 100 years. i always put arizona first. what's remarkable is that i, like hundreds of thousands of other arizonans, once voted for john mccain. but i'm disappointed. he changed since his been washington for 33 years. you see, he once offered the dream act and then you voted against it. he supported comprehensive immigration reform, and now he has campaigned on build the dang
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things. he once thought for corrupting money in politics. the mccain-feingold bill. and now he has taken more money from wall street than any other sitting senator. it would be an honor to arizonans have a choice in this election. i would be honored to have your vote. thanks so much. >> moderator: and now the final closing statement, senator john mccain. mccain: and for this. it's been a delightful evening and thank you for your professional questions and i appreciate it. congresswoman kirkpatrick is right, i have changed. i have changed. i understand the issues and challenges that face arizona. i have traveled everywhere. i had the endorsement of 52 mayors in arizona. you know, that doesn't mean i've left them. it means that they trust me and i trusted them because they're the people i talked to were i can really understand the challenges. look, i came here 35 years ago and i've made it home and the family.
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i have been so blessed. i've been so blessed by the people of arizona who have taken me and my family. and i've been blessed to be able to serve this nation and arizona in the most noble fashion. because i believe that serving a cause greater than one's self-interest is the noblest of all things that one can do. so i say to the people of arizona, thank you. and i'm very grateful and hope you will send me back. >> moderator: candidates, thank you so very much. that's it for now for the special u.s. senate election 2016 debate brought to you by arizona pbs and the arizona republic. thanks to the candidates for their participation and thanks to members of the public who sent in questions and thank you for watching. please stay tuned to arizona pbs for continued coverage of the 2016 election. you have a great evening. ♪ ♪
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>> we have more road to the white house coverage coming up today starting with this event with hillary clinton and former vice president al gore campaigning together at a rally in miami. it hasn't started quite yet but when it does get and what you will be able to watch it live on our companion network c-span. we will also -- donald trump will be speaking to reporters after ballot in panama city, florida. at 8:30 p.m. eastern and will be right here on c-span2. tonight we have a pair of live hour-long interviews separately with third party presidential candidates libertarian gary johnson will appear at 8 p.m. eastern and then the green party jill stein at nine. they will take your calls and tweets. both of those are on c-span tonight starting at eight eastern. our campaign 2016 coverage continues on c-span with life debate to the u.s. house, senate and governor's races. today at 7 p.m. north carolina's
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governor debate between pat mccrory and roy cooper. >> the is reporting a
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nation's second most powerful court ruled today that the consumer financial protection bureau's structure is unconstitutional but did not shut down the agency. the court of appeals for the d.c. circuit said the agency structure is unconstitutional because it's headed by a single director instead of the multimember board. the court allowed the cbd to continue to function by giving the president the power to remove and supervise or director. richard cordray is the current director. the courts 10 page decision set a single unaccountable director departs from a stroke of impose greater risk of arbitrarily, arbitrary decision-making. spent world trade organization director general roberto azevedo now on the benefits of global trade. also the 10 specific partnership agreement chinese currency manipulation and the impact of the presidential election on global trade. [inaudible conversations]
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>> welcome to the national press club. my name is thomas burr, i'm the washington correspondent for the salt lake tribune and the 109th president of the national press club. our guest today is roberto azevêdo, the director general of the world trade organization. i would like to welcome our public radio and cspan audiences, and i'd like to remind you that you can follow the action on twitter using the hashtag #npclive. that's #npclive. before we begin, i wanted to offer the press club's congratulations to colombia president juan manuel santos who today was awarded the nobel peace prize. president santos was our guest at the club three years ago, where he talked about ending the half century civil conflict in his nation, for which he won the nobel prize. now it's time to briefly introduce our head table guests. i'd ask that each of you stand briefly as your name is announced. please hold your applause until i have finished introducing the entire table. from your right, rachel oswald,
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the foreign policy reporter for cq roll call, elliot feldman, partner at baker hostetler law firm, where he is the head of the international trade practice, jan du plain, embassy liaison for the ronald reagan building and international trade center and president of du plain global enterprises, david tinline, advisor to the director-general, myron belkind, former international bureau chief for the associated press, adjunct professor at george washington university school of media and public affairs, and the 107th president of the national press club, tim yeend, chief of staff and principal advisor to the director-general, john hughes, editor for bloomberg news first word dc and the 108th president of the national press club. skipping over our speaker for just a moment, erik meltzer, senior news production specialist at the associated press, and the press club's speakers committee member who arranged today's luncheon. thank you, erik. keith rockwell, spokesperson and director of information and external relations division of the world trade organization,
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fayeq wahedi, director of press and public affairs at the afghan embassy here in washington, and ralph e. winnie, jr., director of the china program at the eurasia center and vice president of the eurasian business coalition. thank you all. [applause] just last week, the world trade organization announced the global trade for the year would be significantly lower than predicted, cutting its forecast to 1.7%, down from 2.8% estimated last april. typically, trade grows 1.5 times faster than the gdp. wto director general roberto azevêdo said the slowdown should serve as a wakeup call, particularly because of the growing anti-globalization sentiment. he said, we need to make sure that this does not translate into misguided policies that can make the situation much worse. at the wto public forum last week, azevêdo made his case for the importance of global trade, but noted that the benefits don't reach as many people as