tv Wild Things Wild Places and Rancher Farmer Fisherman CSPAN November 7, 2016 4:00am-4:51am EST
during the day you will hear from stanford university professor jeff chang on race relations and former obama administration official derek should lay on foreign-policy, but pursed up, to others talk about conservation. tony award-winning actress jane alexander talks about her book, "wild things, wildplaces" and miriam horn, her book is called "rancher, farmer fisherman". now, for a complete schedule of today's events, you can visit our website at book tv.org. you can also follow us on twitter at book tv, instagram at book_tv and facebook, facebook.com. /book to the. throughout the day we will post behind the scenes pictures on all these social media platforms and you can also watch exclusive videos on facebook life. now, here are authors jane alexander and miriam horn talking about conservation.
[inaudible conversations] [inaudible] [inaudible] >> with jane alexander and miriam horn. miriam horn has long been passionate about the environment. today she works with the environmental defense fund and she started her career at the us board services. she took a detour through journalism writing for the "new york times", smithsonian, us news and world report as we sit here on the edge of an election which is likely to mean much for our environment i went to note
her very first book, which is called rebels and white gloves, follow the life story of that pioneering 1969 graduating class which included a young and determined hillary rodham. for her second book, miriam turned her attention to the environment co-authoring earth, the sequel which looks at policy changes that could allow businesses to halt climate change and with publishers weekly called, an optimistic view. not an easy complement when writing about the environment. marian brings a similarly positive outlook to the mississippi river and delta with her new book, "rancher, farmer fisherman". it received a starred review. this book is on an venture, just in the land and water, but among the people who both depend on and shape the future of our country's major artery. miriam's ready with a new and
hopeful view of what conservationists and what it might be. jane alexander has done so much in her life that her wikipedia page alone leaves me breathless. you may recognize her from her many starring roles in film and theater, among them the rate white hope for which she won a tony and academy award nomination and also received awards for her role in: kramer versus kramer, all the presidents men. she has won eight emmys including one for plane eleanor roosevelt, which she aged from the age of 18 years old, 260. she also chairs the national endowment for the arts under president bill clinton. during a challenging time, when arts were heavily under attack, not only that, she has been on the boards of the wildlife conservation society and national audubon society, among others. so, not only as a jane a celebrated actor and committed environmentalist, she's a
graceful and compelling writer, also. her book, wild places, adventurous tales on planet earth jane writes eloquently of her passion for the natural world, an abiding love that has carried her to the most mobile parts of our planet where she has seen the most extraordinary of the species that we share this global with. her writing about our earth ecosystem is among the most rich that i have read. when i was given this honor, e-mailed both of the authors and said would you please read a little bit of your book for our audience and they both said, sure. i thought well, i'm a really-- i'm a very opinionated reader and i will be able to help guide them and pick up-- pick out sections, but i think you could open either of these books to any page, like you can see all of my writing send notes and stars everywhere and anything you would read on any clip would be wealth wise and beautiful. , they have chosen since they
will read for you and i think÷÷÷ that miriam will go first and then jane will follow. >> thank you, julie. [applause]. >> think all of you for being here. it is so much fun to be on this panel with jane whose book i adore and with julie whose writing amazing book about jellyfish that i know i will adore. i decided to read my-- my book is structured as a tripped on the mississippi river and profiles five people on the way and i decided to read from the first chapter, which is about a montana rancher, since i'm in ranch country here. the main protagonists in this chapter is a guy named, of course, dusty, but he works one of the extraordinary thing dusty has done is pulled together a coalition of people who are terribly unlikely. they range from eight guy you'd call a liberal beatnik who is in the peace corps to a guy who
flew several tours and drop bombs in vietnam and dusty himself, most of the people are politically conservative and one of the ranchers dusty works with is also republican, brings those deep conservative values to the way he thinks about his land. he actually ran to the only ranch in montana that borders on the bob marshall wilderness area, 20000 acres and probably the most beautiful ranch i've ever seen. it was homesteaded by his grandfather in 1882. both his grandfather and his father didn't ever believe in modern conveniences, so even when electricity and water came in they did not have it picked the denver foundation by hand. they used-- went carl was young they did all that and this begins with him, so this is an
incredibly hard existence that they lived in, so i'm starting with talking about his father, john. john drapeau kept his family afloat by trapping leader, maintain muskrat for the european market and paying cash for land others abandon, never more than 25 cents an acre. he also trapped a lot of grizzlies. he got to realize times were different back then, says carl. of those guys were trying to scrabble out a living on a 5-dollar steer. they had to run every blade of grass they could just to keep their families going and if a bear killed a family milk cow, that was it. then, the federal government dumped them yellowstone garbage bears up here along the front. those bears didn't have any idea how to make a living so they went to killing livestock. everyone come to my dad saying, would you trap those bears? he bought big leg cold traps made for elephants. i still have his new number six,
the largest trap ever may. they had grizzly hunting season than in the fall, but the bears were killing cattle in the spring when they were coming out of hibernation. it was illegal to trap them in the spring, so my dad would dump them into a coolly. he killed his last beer in 1959, a big old rogue grizzly. the federal trappers had-- had been after that bear for three years. that bear killed what are and my dad ran him down in a snowstorm and killed him. by then, there were almost did no grizzlies left. of the 50000 from the great plains of 1800s, fewer than a thousand remained, just 2% of their original range. in 1975, they were listed as a threatened species. my dad died in 1986, at ainge and 90, ranching to the very end , but before he died one of the last things he said to me was that he felt he had a big part of why the grizzly bear had
declined and that was one of the biggest regrets of his life. he wanted me to promise him that the big bear would always have a home on this ranch. so, carl honor that heritage by becoming part of this unlikely posse that first brought back in an effort to drill for oil and gas in bob marshall wilderness and then protected several hundred thousand acres of these magnificent epic private ranches in conservation easements including karl's ranch karel nel sees grizzlies all the time. in early 2003, when air survey over his land spotted 15 adults and in 2014, he had half a dozen that would tip the scale at a thousand pounds. remarkably, the bears don't touch his cattle. that 1959 depredation was the last on his land. bears were killing calves because this country was pretty well used up. first, by the native americans.
when you have a thousand head of horses in one camp is not a paradise. then, the white man came along and read it harder still. but, there is not a carnivore. and 90 plus% of their diet is grazing. if you lead grass to them, run your cattle like this so they can get a free meal they will not spend the energy to kill a calf. they would much sooner munch on grass, roots and berries. like dusty's grizzlies, he also has grizzlies on his ranch. in 2001, carl described to national geographic how he watched a bear picking up the remains of a cow carcass and slamming it down on the ground like a professional wrestler. couldn't figure out until i saw he was breaking bones to get the marrow. he pulls out pictures of a grizzly sow and her three cups eating grain side-by-side with young calves. these were taken with a digital cell phone.
that's in the corral. this old girl here raised a set of three cups every two years. are used to wean the that labor day and feed them with self feeders. she got to where she knew exactly when labor day was and her and her cubs would come across the meadow and move right in and eat with the cows. when pellets would fall down into the cracks, the mom of there would turn the feeders over to shake them loose. she would stay there until i shipped them in december. as soon as the cavs were gone she would head up and hibernate. with these conservation easements i have done what my dad asked. those big bears will always have a home here. [applause]. >> thank you, miriam. i'm very happy as well to be here and i could have easily
adopted this book that miriam rhodes. we are really very much in sync with-- with what we have written, but she's writing more about ranching the land and working land and i'm writing more about wildlife and my trip with field biologists around the globe for the past 35, 40 years. personally, i'm very passionate herder, but as an actress i was lucky to go to some exotic locations and at that sort of that began my interaction with field biologists. so, this story i'm going to tell you right now has to do with conservation and community because every field biologists i had been with now, whatever the species is that they are studying or the habitat they want to protect is all about community involvement. you know this right here, if you want to protect something down here in austin, or in texas, you need to involve all kinds of partnerships and math in miriam's book as well.
this one is about a woman lay-- named lisa who grew up in brooklyn as an asthmatic kid who was allergic to all kinds of her and ended up protecting a very rare mammal. so, this is about our trip to new guinea a few years ago. in a cloud forest everything is wet, the footing was slippery in the bud smothered my hiking boots, but the riot of ferns and mosses, orchids lacing the tree branches was sumptuous. the field camp was above a little stream, a tarp covered tube was our meal shack where we dined on crackers, soup, rice and greens on placemats of palm leaves. the 10 png fellows did everything with artistic player. they put up individual tents for us and mast arbitrating with a bower of ferns and flowers as if for a disney presents--
princess. i was glad it was so attractive on the outside because inside the trench was so slippery it took infinite skill to squat. @10000 feet and 40 degrees you don't get the variety of night sounds you do it tropical elevation, but it dawned the song of honey eaters rang out along with cicadas. the thickness of vegetation in the height at which tree kangaroos live made the exact location where they were difficult to pinpoint. the ground was spongy with moss and saturated earth while tree roots crisscrossed the forest for. i had to take care to trip as we made our way through the dense foliage of tree trunks, saplings and fall ferns. one of the guys spotted trish, the tree kangaroo. it took several minutes to find her with my binoculars above 40 feet on a large branch of a
tree. her golden brown tail hung down like a thick vine while her body was perfectly camouflaged in a sunlit leaves where she was munching on a spree of orchids. not far away was her joey, have her size, never before seen by lisette. he was out of the pouch by 10 months old, so she guessed he was about a year and still going to his mom to nurse. they become independent at 18 months. there are 15 sub species of tree kangaroos, all evolved along the terrestrial kangaroos and wallabies from an ancient arboreal opossum and dryer australia that becomes bigger and stayed on the ground while in new guinea they involved into distinct sub species in remote nations. every year the battery needs to be changed in the radio collar and trish was due. her radio collar these past four years had taught lisa and her
staff a great deal about tree kangaroos, their range, their courtship, what they eat and the threats to their survival. the area underneath the branch was cleared of anything that might hurt the animals on impact. a young man of 15 elected to climb the tree to induce her to jump your key started up the trunks barefoot like a whole line native going for coconuts, but this tree was so big he could not get his arms around it and his prize was 40 feet up. trish climbed higher, her little joey following is the boy can closer. every time she moved up, so did he. we watched in admiration as the boy put hand over hand, foot over foot as assuredly as spiderman and reach the branch below where she finally stopped, 60 feet above us. he noisily beat the trunk and trish moved to the end, arching the tip of her weight while her joey sought to join her.
he must have thought better of it because he suddenly jumped, flying through the air for the first time with the true grace of a little round ball of her. he landed on the soft forest floor unharmed and the men ran to grab him. trish made to fight herself within minutes, 20 pounds of her landing without a scratch. one man grabbed her by the trail, others held her by her neck at her leg. gabriel removed her old collar and replaced it with a new one. she was relatively calm, having been through this three times before and she was perfectly beautiful. her plush tawny orange for circled the white belly and her big eyes gazed up as she suffered the indignity of being held upright in a slave position. her long black nails curled at the end with sharp points, good grip for climbing. her joey was immediately
christened by the new gideons in honor of our collie, george. he was about the size of a paddington bear. the hawaiian peninsula is the only area of the world where the tree kangaroo live in the making one of the more endangered mammals on earth. they are secretive and shy living high in the canopy were mating is a delicate endeavor. a large arboreal pipeline has a fondness for tree kangaroo and they are prized to meet for the native people as well. hunting and loss of habitat are the main threat to the cc. but, lisa has been educating the villagers sense 1996 about this rare creature in their midst, what began as a research project evolved into an alliance of local people, scientists and research institutions. there are 45 villages and more than 10000 people in the region of the one/. the clan owns all the land which is true of most of new guinea.
they took charge of their own future by creating png's purse conservation area, formally recognized by the government in 2009, giving the area of the highest protection under the law it to mean that there will be no extraction of resources including mining and logging. the villagers are still able to hunt the kangaroos sustainably in a certain places, but they are off limits and 180,000 acres of protected area. so far, the villages are honoring the rules. the tree kangaroo is a source of pride to them and to their children who learn about the animal in school. the staff of the tree kangaroo conservation program in the png office are all native men and women, which the program aids in further education. gabriel, a native, completed his phd at cook university in australia, and is now a teacher
of biology in his homeland in new guinea, specializing in native flora and fauna. the tree kangaroo is his signature cc. [applause]. cutback cutback. >> i guess i'm going to ask if you questions and then i will leave time for questions in the audience. when you get ready there is a microphone in the middle. i will let you know when to lineup, but for my first question given the title of the session, the key to conservation and james wan career onstage i thought we might be a will to a prop. the keys to conservation. we know that the key to conservation is not something this simple. it's much more complicated, so i'm wonder if each of you will
say what the key to conservation actually looks like and how has it changed during your years of studying conservation? >> yes, because i would like to follow-up on what i said before i read this piece about the tree kangaroo, which is today, i watched research scientists and field biologists go from pure side in the field study and animal or habitat, from pure science they have gone to protecting the species, which all of them are doing today in one way or another, maybe not the ones right out of graduate school, but certainly the ones that have spent time in the field and know what species they want to make their life's work. they understand that it's all about community. they no longer just drop in, tell them that they have to protect this kangaroo in the area where they find it and it leads. no, it's about education for the community. it's about help with the community. it's about pride in the species
that is rare and in their community and boy, do they lock onto that. i mean, imagine if you had a very rare species in a remote area like p&g. you don't have access to knowing what other people have her have not in areas even in your own country because it's so steve in new guinea and that's why there are a thousand languages still. they are in very remote areas. so, this is true wherever you are and i'm going to let miriam talk also about this because i think we are in sync with this. it's happening everywhere work you need partnerships and you need buy-in with everyone. when i think this is where you guys come in because the scientists and organizations that support them can to do this alone anymore. it's too big a job and it's to all of the globe, so i would ask each of you to look into becoming a member of an organization that protects and animal or habitat, supporting
that organization and signing the petitions that they send out to you. those petitions really make a difference. thank you. [applause]. >> so, i would really echo what jane said. one of the things that everyone in my book has in common is that they see human beings as a species that is a species among species with a right to live, but to be good citizens of the ecologies that they live within and so figuring out how to address these landscape, all of the landscape in my book are working landscape. human beings are raising food on them or in one case transporting goods across mississippi river, but in every case the solution, the durable solution comes with a place for people in it and a way of using the work that people are doing on the land.
it's not just some game that you sort of split the difference in nature gets a little and the people get a little, the work they're doing on the land can itself actually be restorative and that requires this deeper recognition of interdependence that because these people have lived on this land for generations and they are on it every hour of every day, 306 a dizzy year year, they really recognize that dependence in a deep way, so for instance the second chapter in central kansas with a fiber-- farmer named justin who has come to understand that his crop health depends above all on the health of the soil microbes, microbial ecology that is invisible, that is largely beyond our knowledge and understanding at this point, but that he sees his primary job as kerry for that, those trillions of organisms that are out of sight over-- under the grant because they is-- they
keep his plants free from disease and bring them nutrients , so justin recognizes-- he's willing to yield this idea that we are the masters of nature, that we either dominate nature or we cleared out of the way and instead he is a collaborator with nature and that really changes this game that we have cast conservation as. you don't have to drive people out, but you have to develop a collaboration with other people and other organisms. >> marry them, why did you decide to focus your book on the mississippi river and the delta? >> so, i had a million choices. i work with people who work with people like this all the time all of the country. my sort of search engine was my colleagues. i asked for candidates and i
really had so many fabulous stories i could have told. i ended up choosing the mississippi river as the spine of my book because i decided-- first of all the mississippi river is the third largest river in the world. it's incredibly critical to the history of this country, both the natural history of this country. it built the largest wetlands in the united states. it built all of those fertile topsails in the heartland and has also been central to our national history. it's where a lot of the really important episodes in american history played out from lewis and clark to the civil war and our emergence as a global economic power, so it's incredibly important and i would say often overlooked part of the country. it also maps perfectly with red state america and i but i really wanted to push against this pervasive and destructive myths
that the only people that care about conservation are people like me who live in new york city and don't have calluses on our hands. i really wanted to review what i need to be true, which is that there are vast numbers of people living in the most traditional corners of america, producing food at scale who really are doing some of the most consequential conservation work in the country. [applause]. >> jane, your adventures spend the entire glove and i wonder how you limited your self to 300 pages. >> i also wanted to-- there are stories about me because as a birder i often go alone to remote places, but that is something i have been doing for years since as an actress i went on location and on my days off i would just have a pair of
binoculars and a field guide. they didn't have apps back then. now i use my iphone. and just go out wherever, but i wanted to concentrate like miriam did on what we need to do to solve these problems. what we need to do to solve the problems of the desecration of land and tigers, all of the big mammals. the big mammals-- i cannot emphasize enough how critical this time right now is. the latest report is that since 1970, bite 2020, we are talking about what is that 50 years, 50 years we will have lost two thirds of the number of animals in the world, not species, the number of animals altogether, two thirds. that means the trajectory is plummeting pretty steeply on a lot of species and we know this to be true certainly with the big mammals of the world. not only do they have-- they are
being overexploited, illegally for body parts, also for commerce with an expanding population and most of all the number one killer, of course, is land development. land development past weekend, for the most part, because we have an expanding population, which by 2050 will probably be 10 billion people are more. so, this is where working land comes in. the kind of work that these farmers and fishermen are doing that miriam so beautifully writes about her book, they are trying to maximize the number of crops that they can grow and of the number of harvest they can get from the ocean to feed the world with the least possible space used. that's why microbes are so important today and a soil is so important, so this is a really important book to read about landscape. i also wanted to focus as much
as possible on what we all need to do because we are all in this together. everything in our life comes from natural resources, everything, even the list cm. think about the devices we use today, our batteries, whatever, we have to protect this. we are all in this together and when you protect the greatest predators in the world you are protecting a whole range of species. it's by default. they are the umbrella species, the landscape species. birds are the air escape species. they fly over everything. if birds are healthy we are healthy because they demand clean air and clean water just like we do. so, if we all get in this together is a this is something very easy, it's not rocket science, guys. put the criminals in jail, the criminals that are poaching. right now they are cartels doing
the elephants in the right-- right now is. put them in jail or call we need is a little more money because the people are doing the heavy 15 in africa and asia already to get rid of them. i'm going on and on-- i could. [laughter] >> so, we can take questions from audience or i can keep asking questions. >> i have a question for jane. >> we have someone, sorry. >> so, i'm all for putting the cartel poachers in jail, but seems like the real answer is to educate the people of china and other places about that affects of buying the ivory. so, how do you approach that mimic this is the good news and i glad you brought that up because we like to believe that maybe here in the western world
where the only ones enlightened. now, chinese youths is really onto this. asian youth is really onto this. i love millennial's today. they get it. they get it right inside about the environment and how we have to protect it. we just have to show them the way how they can become involved. but, in china we have two major figures. we have actually maybe dozens of major figures, but one you might know used to play for the houston rockets. do you know who i'm talking about? yao ming is back in china and devoted the rest his life to all of conservation. in his past five years he has cut the demand for shark fin soup in china in half. now, shark fin soup was a staple of traditional chinese medicines and celebration. yao ming has said listen, guys this is getting 90% of the sharks in our oceans today.
they are the ones we need like the vultures in the air work we need the sharks in the ocean to patrol and clean up all of the oceans and keep them clean. yao ming has done that. he has gone after poachers of elephants and talked about ivory and the same thing has happened with rhinoceroses as well with yao ming and a chinese movie star. she has taken it upon herself to really talk to the youth of china about elephants in ivory. so, we had these people working to stop the trade over there and we need to just help them through organization here like save the elephants and a charlotta conservation or the daphne sheldrake foundation which takes in orphaned elephants at rhinoceroses. in the end of my book i have in appendix of organizations if anyone is interested.
's humankind to basic questions. one, would like you to talk about climate change. >> can you speak up a little bit >> in texas, you may know we have a serious water problem. i know it doesn't look like it today, but in 2011, we had whole towns that ran out of water. there is a lot of fighting going on about water and with the population explosion in texas that puts more pressure on that, so how would you try to urge texas lawmakers to get with the plan? to help the environment. i feel a lot of them don't understand how critical it is to have a healthy environment. >> well, that really was one of the purposes of this book, was to start pushing against this
polarized politics around climate, which really-- the polarization around the environment is general is a very new phenomenon. the environment was a bipartisan issue certainly through richard nixon who signed the most important environmental laws in the country and going back all the way to teddy roosevelt and even before him to abraham lincoln. so, ronald reagan actually was-- ronald reagan said what is a conservative but one that concerns. this is our patrimony, so part of the surface-- purpose of the book was to start revealing that there has been a concerted effort to tell politicians that leadership on climate will only bring them pain and they will only be punished of voting time and so far purpose of the book was to reveal that they have a huge constituency for leadership on climate and to start airing those voices more loudly to try to nudge the politics around climate. in terms of on the ground, the work that these people are doing
, to be in kansas, the farmer i write about is a creationist christian who lives in what is circling that can lack-- that with texas for being one of the most conservative parts of the country, but in the course of the three years i worked on the book and watch the conversation kind of change before my eyes about climate in his world because the extreme weather they are dealing with, we went up to kansas state-- where he got his degree and his professors will all say, absolutely, the climate is changing because of human causes when we go to a state legislators we don't say that. we go to our state legislators and say we have to work on water issues, drought issues and aquifer. they really believe in talking about climate in a way that doesn't get the worst length that keeps the conversation going and if that means we talk about drought and stay away from the hot button word of climate
that he is fine to do that, but the way he farms in the way about 20% of heartland farmers are now farming without ever plowing their soil is first and foremost designed to make it resilient against climate change and keeps the soil very sheltered, shaded and cool and allows it to really capture and hold every drop of precious water. so, there is a real push coming up from the farmers and the land grant colleges. i was witnessing the change happening in the conversation. >> i would like to add one thing about that. we are all experiencing extreme weather of one sort or another. under the note of the escape-- nova scotia, in canada and we had the worst drought in verse recorded since 1860 in the area i live there is a 4000 people may be here to houston and a thousand, 200 wells when dry, so we are all experiencing different kinds of climate change all around north america
and the world in fact. favorite cartoon is this guy that they are having a meeting about climate and he gets up and says, what is this all a big hoax and we make the world a better place for nothing. [laughter] >> that's my answer to it. i mean, let's just make the world better place, guys. [applause]. >> i applaud your efforts to try and change the way things are done, but i see it a lot different, especially in texas. i'm a native texan. i see companies really pushing
back and they have the wherewithal to do it in this goes up the mississippi river. i can talk to you about farms and the way things are done and the seed companies and all that. i'm thinking that maybe the focus should be on getting schoolkids and so forth to really be involved in this and young folks that this is a long hard deal-- my daughters work in
the area of conservation of animals and so forth and a wonder what your thoughts are on a different approach, you know, something has to be done with the companies that are pushing back. you know, i think it has to be viewed as a long-term effort. >> thank you. great question. thank you. >> there is no question that there are companies that are working for ill out there, but one of the other kind of radical things of that that in barbell defense fund is that their companies that can be forces for pushing-- it wouldn't stay for good. that might be an overstatement, but for pushing the world in the right direction. for instance, we did something
that surprised people in the environment of community and opened an office in arkansas to work when walmart and the reason we did that is one of the many reasons is that walmart is the biggest grocery in america, so if a walmart starts saying to food companies we want something different, that is a very powerful leverage to change the world and one of the things that walmart has said is that we want -- has said to kellogg's and campbells and all-- general mills, all of the companies whose products are stocked on the shelves, they have said we want you to find low-carb and raw materials, find farmers who are farming in a way like justin does that keeps the carbon in the soil and uses fertilizer carefully so that they actually begin to become a carbon negative force in the world. if you can work those big levers and you got to find the ones that are workable and some of them as dusty says sometimes
there are people you just have to wait for them to die and there are definitely people and companies that you will never change, but there are some big levers you can push to move the world in the right direction and that's another really key strategy. >> i would also-- i just came from part of my book tour took me to the seattle region and also silicon valley area region. the big tech companies are going to change the whole face of this. they are all going green because the energy it takes just to run their own energy system in the house and microsoft alone, the campus i was on last week has 400 buildings and 40000 employees. they just bought most of the stock, over 50% of first solar, a major solar company in california. they are going to send-- they are going to have all of their buildings now green.
you notice, probably, yeah. found this with facebook and google and, you know, all of them out to their. so, when you have this kind of leaders, i think they are leaders today and they are settling all over our country in the world, when they start doing this i think it's only a matter of time before all the others will fall in line. certainly, with regulations as well and we have to keep pushing for regulations, but i don't think it will happen in my lifetime, but i do think it will happen to my grandchildren's lifetime. >> this is the last question. >> i was in africa and helped train canyon rangers against posey-- poaching and the biggest problem we had was-- like the money they would get for shooting an elephant and providing task was more than they would make in a year to make 18 months.
had we combat that cracks and i spent months over there in the poachers were better armed. i was on loan from the u.s. army we had all the technology we could, but the biggest thing is they would tell me i'm doing this because it's the right thing to do, but we would arrest poachers in two weeks later we would arrest them again. they should of been waiting for arraignment and you get really frustrated. there were instances where some of that rangers would just execute the poachers on spot, so how do we provide them a living if the only way they can survive is kill an elephant for tasks? >> this is the toughest-- not to try to unravel-- how many years if i may ask ago was that, five? >> 20. >> 20. there have been some changes and the main changes have been, first of all that there is more enforcement because there is more money put behind
enforcement and let's get back to technology. the biggest changes now is that we have drones, critter cams. critter cams are putting where we could see the lines of the poachers going to read night and the drugs can also spot them and spot the herds of elephants, so that is a huge change. also, amassing data and more air power is going in. in nepal, they have not had any poaching incidents since 2008 when they brought the army in, so there are solutions that they are not easy. i personally do not subscribe to killing the poachers on-site, but there are organizations that do and that takes care of it, but i think they are criminals and we have to round them up, the criminals and get them in jail. but, the main problem i think you're talking about is that these guys need to make a living
for their families. absolutely. there are people on the ground working with that as i talked about the whole community involvement to say the animals because they don't want to get rid of the elephant's even though read their crops periodically like the grizzlies. they don't really want to get rid of them, but they have no choice. we have to give them choices. people are working on that. we have to support the people working on that. >> unfortunately, we are out of time. i want to thank you. [applause]. >> and went to encourage everyone to please continue this conversation in the signing tent , which is right here. for the love of all things literary, please buy these books they are so fabulous, not just for you but your friends. you will love reading them and as i said it's really convenient
just walk right through a little bit of rain into the signing tent. thank you. [applause]. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> you been listening to authors jane alexander and miriam horn picked this is live coverage on book tv of the texas book festival and in about 10 minutes the next author will speak, jeff chang talk about race in america.
[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]÷÷÷÷÷÷ [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> while we wait for the texas book festival to resume we want to show you a little bit from an interview we did with university of texas professor on a recent visit to austin. guest: the predators are those who are attempting to take advantage of the programs that