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tv   Twilight Warriors  CSPAN  December 4, 2016 7:00pm-8:01pm EST

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>> >> good evening everyone. i am the senior vice president and it is my honor to host james and we're doing this in partnership with the center for the study of the presidency and congress. reword just talking upstairs wonderful things about the presidency and congress that was founded by the late david capture and he was a remarkable man who was well loved and he loved -- live to see the building which was terrific he started scsi as over 50 years ago and for
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years and with less opulent surroundings to say the least. >> we would be doing this in a basement with no windows windows, we never would have gotten here without david so it is an honor to be working with the center and of course, to have my friend james kitfield here who has written another remarkable book you although his biography you don't have to read it one of the of best military reporters to work in this town one of the best authors and the respect of the people that he interviews and writes about one and his readers and fellow journalists. >> thanks for saying that. >> certainly the policy
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community to consider him to be someone who insisted so impeccable talent and character and we have learned a lot from james kitfield over the years. the book is terrific the holidays are coming up doll by one, by two if you are watching at home they are available on amazon wherever they sell books everybody at csis will be through a by the end of the year and have no doubt. thanks for coming out to another site to in washington and. nothing much going on it is all quiet. but the sun was shining today and italy's shines over here as a bipartisan institution that aims to be
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constructive foreign policy and that is what we hope to talk about tonight can learn from his book and take your questions. get those in mind but tell us why the name of the book? >> i picked t11 looking for something that talks about the global terrorist movement is not night or day or a victory or a you for or criminality but hybrid with this idea of a perpetual conflict. but the genesis really was doing a lot of reporting in 2011 that i thought was a watershed year post 9/11 war of terror. obamacare into the office in
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the first two years he lost more drawn strikes against targeted terrorist than pakistan and the bush in the illustration had done in eight years. and they just tripled the number in a couple of years of the strikes launched each month. in the space of one year we killed more than half of the top 20 cockeyed of attendance senior level leaders and in that year also osama bin lavin so clearly something was happening there might have ever seen in my coverage that ever happened after 9/11 including the wars of iraq and afghanistan. something was going on. that same year and then the
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commander in chief who killed osama bin lot and then clearly then he gave a speech in 2013 were basically he tried to sign the warrant terror and that we had so decimated outside tattoo put that into a more and then widened the aperture of american foreign policy so when seemed there was something going on and of those targeted killings and we could do that and that's strictly in with a total secrecy.
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and fail to college. >> yen very few weeks. that made new nothing about and that intrigues me. and this idea but the group's persisted. it was wirth uh is deep dive but also to understand the enemy can and whether awards and how we got so successful. >> it turns out to look at
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the of force that was so effective with post vietnam and if you remember goldwater nicole's where and then to be joined that was of a key part of that military framework but added turns out the joint special operations command was almost perfect crucibles with that synergistic model of intelligent san agency and direct agency in the all operate under one roof and those circumstances but they
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broke down all the of barriers that poll was better than the sum of the parts. >> the record number of targets that they hit does that not surprise you? and with this highway up-tempo operations. and the intelligence gathering so you gather intelligence. so they get into a cycle of operation to exploit the intelligence and analyze. that tempo that was so industrial level with every
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target gave the more targets it was a virtual cycle inside the decision making part of the outcry that to make their leader's very vulnerable. >> talk about the news in the booktv -- book but you talk about officials who concluded and 2012 the obama administration was seeking to suppress intelligence on the islamic extremist threats to justify walking away from iraq or syria or afghanistan and other countries that would fall apart while he was president. talk about that. >> derek is a feeling of the chief intelligence officer of operations command whose
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name is up as the senior national security advisor alter ego. anc was seen as the threat from isis and others and he showed me a chart between 2004 and 2014 the number of islamic extremist groups at a time of the narrative and of the of threats going away go to the new normal. as it goes up the chain of command it was diluted through the presidential debrief subsequently now with the investigation to
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make the same complaint the alarmist intelligence analysis on the growth of physis somehow disappeared so as top-level central command. so if it is one of these things where america comes out of the white house house, obviously to be very upset with the defense intelligence agency it would be very a frustrated what he thought was a growing threat basically perceived as the public as a dying threat to. that caused a lot of attention. but to represent a core group that the enemy was not dead that all the groups lie
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under a the black banner water oxide tori's as are the tallest and because they're all view united and connective tissue in the threat was growing then he thought the white house was not explaining that threat. >> why did he think that what. >> because the intelligence that he saw, with the president's speeches talking about basically this counterterrorism speech basically describing how chitin as decimated in the troops coming home to rely on the drone program. and he fought back against that. >> is still fighting laugh fight? been nikes' still believes that.
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yes. from the trumpet ministrations baton ochs about this threat to be bigger than just diocese or oxide at in to form a group of the territory that we would fight that sooner or later. it is intolerant natalie of other religions but the constraints just like the predecessor. there is of narrative coming out that is different from the trump whitehouse. >> so what about fighting counterterrorism? >> i don't want to speak for them but the narrative quite honestly qvc what president
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obama has done in the last year with the j.v. team of terrorism talking about two years ago of page generation if anybody was reluctant but to realize what a threat to isis was so there is a general consensus that it isn't one that we could walk away from the enemy gets of vote. >> so what custer the uh transformation of the u.s. counter terrorism network and the operational style. >> that joint taskforce operation command can scott
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miller was airforce commander that a so to break down the of military to find synergistic operations that merges with that global counterterrorism. it is like the mother lode. and it takes the networks as well. with the it incite the counterterrorism center. with the joint terrorism task force to combine that
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to community is the norm and there is a technological revolution with a global communications systems to tie together with uh delta force has hundreds of analysts scattered all over the world and then to analyze the common ground system. and it has created a network with any place on the earth and its recently as desert
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storm it includes all of the satellites. it is like what stamina crystal had created -- stanley mitt crystal and as they rotated through the joint task force at jsoc burnout working at the counterterrorism center made only in no working together it is that ito's to prompter that counterterrorism network. >> tell us more about that before 9/11 cia and fbi had considerable barriers to say the least to hamper their cooperation. but that atmosphere that you described as changed and how and how as the removal of
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barriers. >> you raise an interesting point the fbi and the cia joint task first one - - force used to joke checked your guns at the door because it was so antagonistic towards each other. they were like oil in an underwater. they literally had the workstations isolated to look over their shoulder of the national counterterrorism and then not sharing the impression with each other. the task force finally says you have to put all of your sources out so that you know
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each other sources said monday did that and did a promised you could not push each other sources but some were being used by two or three or four agencies and then told different contradictory things which they did not want to hear because they were getting paid. pocket leads to a desperate fight. and that has percolated through the entire system. pet that post 9/11 commission report in a previously from the church committee. with the intelligence sharing and one of the reasons i want to write the book is said want us to lose that. >> so come on the same team?
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>> what did you discover issue peel back the veil of the targeting program? >> so why none of the fascinating parts of the of book is the fbi realizes like the job is to protect americans as they are killed by the i edie's --. >> ellis c. brian mcauley is . he is not a household name. >> yes. he is an astounding special agent very early one of the visionary leaders who said we cannot afford to be fighting we need to work
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together. there was only a handful of the fbi in afghanistan he brings in more than 100 because they were killing american soldiers and trying to understand of ied deaths to brings in the behavioral science people and has an interview today the best did not go off for in these experts profilers understood how most of the moral level peasants from pakistan with the refugee camps were radicalized by erratic call imam in a tribal area and basically were told they
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will go to heaven with this operation and their families are paid money then they are brought to the of logistics' where they meet up with of guy of the vehicle of the ied t. so they have to understand that i agree annual level. but as one of the profilers told me they are manipulating these guys and it is very sophisticated because somebody who is the uneducated and not capable to go after a soft target but they found somebody they would put them on a team to do more hard target commando type of things but the profilers if i was taking a team i would pick exactly
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these guys and assign them the task they were given so they were a sophisticated enemy. when the stands out to recruit, radicalize and deploy them in the expert manner. and they would pick presence , children, convinced of sexual to where the suicide best incredibly cynical and approval but they also would pick more educated people like the crew food did 9/11 brcs hi lee educated a couple that off or those not capable to do that they would send them to a police academy. >> host: you focus so much on the interrogation program in the book.
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>> i was in iraq when of the grave of broker and i saw how that up ended algol operation. all the trust the people built with the iraqis went out of the window because of the treatment of that incredible recruiting poster they have the numbers to prove that. is a fact also i wasn't there is as an american and by the way i talk to the guys who did the interrogation is one with enhanced techniques to create a lot of corrupted intelligence you tell them what you think they want to hear that is not necessarily the truth. there is one case the
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operative that was captured captured, was the only one that the fbi team got to hear first to do a week's worth of interrogation. very patiently broke down the story and then the cia did an enhanced interrogation techniques and they got nothing. the fbi was told them the was the mastermind of 9/11 in the operative one into a dirty bob attack. so they think that not only that torture works but that it is okay and i think it is wrong on both counts. >> the culture between the fbi and the cia. >> but this is an interesting point because
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they were so critical of the joint task force to understand what each agency brought to the table the fbi they had been interviewing criminals with the core capability. with the air force psychologist to design enhance interrogation protocol basically that they trained american troops and what those communist regimes would be and then that is a perfect example this cia does brilliant stuff in terms of analysis then they get a piece of information and they are not well-suited to drag that down and with those analytical capabilities to say that is
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how they got that. but you have to understand who brings what to the table . the cia does not have the skill set of interrogating people. >> what have we learned collectively from interrogation quick. >> we learn the networks. they did break him down but the template that they designed the fbi with the behavioral science like the suicide bombers, they built a template of interrogation to understand their motivations of they would kill themselves to use that as a template to interrogate or interview like the time
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square bomber, the subway bomber, so they use this template of what they have learned to break them down in interrogation. they are ideologically there anti-western and it is violence by intolerance so you get a sense that only the enemy but to give up names and make connections you will flesh out what the networks look like. >> does the new style of counterterrorism operation survive the end of the post
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9/11 wars greg. >> one of the reasons i wrote the of book is i think it needs to is the times are not great to be honest. with the postwar mindset with military readiness with sequester, what happened to mike, he was asked by a leon panetta to come back from more in it with the award tiny those but then could not finish the job because it was too disruptive. he has to come back and they said how the country had moved on to and they feel the conflict is still going. i did write recently that you may have heard from this whiff the controversy with the state department that calls the mob about the hillary clinton e-mail to be
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classified -- declassified he said no but put my guys back so congress has launched a criminal investigation that is exactly what you want your agency to be doing. that is standard operating procedure restart to criminalize cross talk you will ruin the model. even what the nsa did with the edward snowden also were techniques developed of reasons -- real-time regional game away -- gateway with those capabilities with those sophisticated algorithms. they say they are going dark because of the encryption
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that we as a society will allow companies to make a phone even with a warrant you cannot break into. these models will be less effective no question. >> let's go to your questions. >>. >> thanks for the talk. i am with csis. of course, so much specialization with the counterterrorism policy since 9/11 fax -- but looking at counterterrorism when wine country needs to deal with the entire
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perspective that is so there how to deal with terrorism given what has happened in paris recently, being a reporter in this field other then the specialist? >> good question. for one thing the intelligence sharing and cooperation that we do is not characterized by the european intelligence model. they don't talk to each other like our agencies do so there is a very big problem if a terrorist comes into greece or turkey going into germany for through france crossing borders and agencies don't talk. that is safekeeping folder ability that most european
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citizens don't have that security so europe needs to learn from this model themselves and get over the competition between intelligence agencies. but we also learned that you have to address radicalization to some degree. you recently sought united kingdom erastus of hate preacher. i am a journalist. i believe in free speech but there's a limit to incite violence and there's all whole chapter of the african-american kid from a middle-class family became the first jihadist to launch a terrorist attack after 9/11 in the united mine negative in united states and it was so typical he got in trouble whiff of law and was troubled and reached out
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to physical gold was a muslim for the farrakhan group and went to allow moscow that had fundamentalist preacher and then they sent him to yemen for finishing school he was arrested in yemen and spent time in prison they are masters of jihad where it is a perfect breeding ground it includes those who led out by the end iraq and operatives so he touched all of those in you could see that process of radicalization that if you don't pay attention, then
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the next wave of jihadist is born. >> i am not with csis i have not read your book. >> good excuse. >> but something i have been curious about, with the nature of the outside and basis. -- a oxide etch and isis but because of those relationships and to have that he negative in flocks so do you think that isis has been penetrated given in the opportunity.org
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cynthia's like it is easier to penetrate al qaeda and if that has happened what about the results? in the near future quick. >> batted the good point there were hard to penetrate because they were more careful about their vetting. zero verses open the gates come to the cafe with 35,000 that would answer the call. but there are pros and cons to each side. al qaeda have a lot longer to develop, over a decade with very little harassment so they could afford to be more careful. isis developed very quickly and decided to be more ambitious they are open to infiltration by honestly
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don't know the answer to that i would say that certainly hasn't been want perfect because there are ugly surprises like the paris attacks in the brussels attacks but rather than being the j.v. team team, these are learning organizations where they share the of lessons for over a decade they learned of the of core out the strategy in the pantheon is money for the recruits they learn from al qaeda in the arabian peninsula that very sophisticated social media and recruitment inspiring those low wolves with
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on-line magazines and they'll learn from al qaeda and arak with brutality and that plays well of all of the terrorist groups al qaeda and i racked by far was most brutally willing to massacre and isis does the same thing we have seen the brutality and 18k i solicit is al qaeda 3.no. but i am not sure if we have infiltrated it is not nearly where it should be. >>.
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>> good to see you. and then this book deal cover cooperation with uh major allies? out that trump is the president-elect with the job of administration and with those coalition partners. with the inspector general's office to with their british commanders with those regions of afghanistan and
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with that cooperation there is the new zealand australia of britain and ourselves'' there is close cooperation and how those germans were surprised. into that alter ego he views this as a connected fight everybody talks about we decimate the core there is
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hardly any difference so those counterterrorism people are very afraid. and then with the tub and with those affiliate's because that was the brand of the day. the bad is a pantheon of like-minded groups to share intelligence to siege from this part of his secret plan
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>> working here and of building with uh trump administration, what are the most critical counterterrorism positions that donald trump will be filling? andy you have any thoughts of the coup could be filling up position? >> i don't. i don't think they know themselves that we could speculate but i think uh keep positions for counter terrorism is the white house counterterrorism chief this person is the president's go to person ahead of the counterterrorism center the
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director of national intelligence is keep them because he has to focus on the big picture bottles us to focused on the terrorism threat so those are the big ones for terrorism i think n the military so much as around the joint special operations command those positions are always keep -- but that military would signal those who would fill the position but that is the big one and i would just be guessing if i said i knew food he would pick.
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>> i am saratov's and from the state department i have a quick question coming off of the previous question of the characterization -- of the conflict is said dangerous to refer to which it as a war with the terminology and the connotations that come from that? would you then characterize it by another terminology for just address that as a conflict? i think the terminology definitely shapes of mentality of what you go into which affects the entire approach i guess it is a very clear. >> and of the issue very well.
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the bush did in the station didn't say much about that today understood there is a negative thing goes wrong with calling it that in there are reluctant to say that because they do not want to of those that our peaceful people and as a journalist pdf you cannot deny that it was the ideological components in retry to be as clear as we can. and if you think it is just a terrorist group with that decimated problem is over.
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negroes and certain kinds of conditions. and justified with journalist and i was very disturbed when donald trump said a ban on muslims that is the exact reason why the president did not want to say that to tar the whole religion which is very unhelpful because that goes right into their narrative of the war with the west but as a journalist redo left understand that nature and i hope we could be sophisticated enough and maybe be can't. i go back and forth on this but there is something
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important and understanding the nature of the enemy but if you take it too far we can be a little more sophisticated how we talk about this diplomacy on the front lines and dusty and the state department would not want to get in that type of description talking about the threat but i want to hear the understanding because if you are not specific with those assumptions with either discrete groups that is not what they are. >> next tuesday november 15 we will be be the scene of commission on violent extremism report care by
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former british prime minister tony blair and leon panetta so look for that it addresses the language in the root cause and rarely is a template for over a year for the next administration to look at in terms of to counter violent extremism next-generation of leaders i just want to go little further what she asked if you talk about radicalization united states has then occupying and die
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was born in india and we had people who were doing the same thing as sockeye that and isis and those that were trying to work with the enemy hand-in-hand as well was the government so those afghans and iraqis for that presents for all this period and intervention they must leave whether it is al qaeda or the prime minister or the citizens so given that to put these if the russians
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were occupying this country over 50 years we would be doing the same thing. >> what is wrong with it? we have to figure a way to get out. >> i take your point to be a foreign occupying force in a foreign land even a nationalists outbreak and it is a point well taken we did not occupy afghanistan in the '90s when they were trying to kill americans with be embassies but we did not occupy afghanistan. >> [inaudible]
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>> we can go back through dollar long history of politics we don't have that but in terms of occupation in afghanistan the television we let outside the build bases and they attack us numerous times, 18 in 9/11 so if we have any doubt they will do the exact same things and it was destroyed last year and then founded in canada are so i don't think occupying a bunch of countries is the answer but it isn't to ignore these issues we tried to ignore a racist and tell the lawyers those attacks and of the occupation is the answer but don't think
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ignoring the problem is as we have tried that and they still persist. >> thanks very much for the talk as of list on the canadian banks could you comment on the operation of iraq? >> i have written about five is there over a month ago with the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff but that template that you see has a very light footprint now very small and syria so it is to use the of skill set the joint special
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operations command developed and with those proxy forces on the ground we bring those things other advanced intelligence surveillance reconnaissance special forces and strike teams that have killed 120 isis' leaders trained and assist and command and control to the kurdish forces olivier doing the same thing in somalia to bring in those skills sets to stabilize that is a new template that we can support all are there that many people that are fundamentalist?
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there are willing partners but we have learned that skill set that is very useful in that is what you see in mosul and it is powerful because it takes time but there is of big downside to that footprint. >> one more question. >>. >> i am with insight consulting i am talking about the cost of military operations with the national debt so do you think this new model of "twilight warriors" can be more cost-effective means to exert the u.s. force around the world?
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if so, how? >> it isn't cheap but it is a lot cheaper than the large occupying ground forces because of that measure from the cold war so they were discreet operations with the cost of doing that again is the cost of not doing that i still remember 9/11 so the cost to let these groups negative powerful and to train, we know what happens this isn't a theoretical problem anymore. new york knows washington knows, we know what will happen you have to wade that
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cost of these types of operations on a continual basis and i would argue quite honestly spending less than the cold war average but in terms of gdp i would argue that that burden that we cannot bear would change the political dynamic. [applause]
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. >> while i was then the region met many times
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president netanyahu's and then also in the two of the net on those two occasions september 2010. and i argued the following speech. . . a the region to create two states and they accepted it and
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rejected it and the first of several began, each of which was won by israel i don't think there is an arab leader today that wouldn't welcome the petition that was rejected in 1948 but it doesn't exist anymore, and it's not coming back. you haven't accepted the other offers made because they are unfair. but the offers are not going to get better so you'd have to sit down, negotiate and get the best that you can.

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