tv John Pomfret Discusses The Beautiful Country and the Middle Kingdom CSPAN April 1, 2017 3:30pm-4:45pm EDT
troubles he was expelled. >> with his alleged drinks with during that period he reported from bosnia afghanistan and iraq and turkey end later became the editor of the law "washington post" section of the weekend that is familiar to all of you then headed back to china on a fulbright grant he is the of winner of the elliott prions which is given by the asian society also the 2007 prize and the pattersons journalists of color ship if so welcome to the bills and center. we have a lot of people in
the audience so you although the u.s.-china relations are in the next of the very precarious period described as our respective spheres out with the hopes anytime since normalization running very deep bin relations since relations were founded lead in both countries the u.s.-china relationship to be adversarial that has not happened before. >> it is a reflection of the views of the people that the majority of the chinese at the same time reported a negative view it is only a matter of perception but
real difficult problems into a strategic area like korea or the tight s.c. bottles of beer over do of the economic relations thises going now the devastates faces domestic conditions now as they are trying for global leadership so at this very difficult time of generations both, are in need of a deep breath. self therapeutic breath so in the middle kingdom but it sets out to be a history of mutual influence could end
the search for patterns and the attempt to draw up pattern so looks at the mutual fears and hopes san inspiration's and illusions and touches on these assesses of impeachment but it is a pattern of mutual frustration and fascination of. and those chinese-americans that shaped, or symbolize the ammunition ship. so to be a novel but the stories are so good but also
between coulter and ideas. and then you can get the signed. and then to get be attention that it deserves. >> and am looking for a the questions from the audience as well. anytime you get to the new era in a delicate but both sides want. this is the light motif to go through the book. so the classic is the expansion of but all those
u.n. to change china with the implication maybe it would not made such a difference if it is the essential to what happened in china in the early educational exchanges those who return home after graduating found the diplomatic service but telegraph office in the architecture american funded institute of china paleontology and bonnie will with the idea of human-rights.
what role does this play with positive contributions with that patterns? and we have indeed conduct the story in then ended up building the bomb. so have we changed the are of the of perception greg. >> both their great questions but generally speaking there is a recognition but in terms of party state ideology less than 15 or 20 years ago their packaging of the
interactions with china but that said there is this the in acknowledgement to the foundation of western learning and china that there was coulter imperialism. so it is a schizophrenic picture that specifically in the last decade interested to hand down. so when they write bsa to say how can you credit china met a americans to save that was the immediate alacrity. but with the engagement issue, i think it is in just
a simple issue from my perspective but having just left china after leaving there there is that sense not necessarily of warmth but in many bays is too big to fail pet clearly there is that a knowledge meant that china's process of modernization so while the competition aspect and the lack of trust has increased with the reliance on america for technology to help china with the future. it is frayed from where we lived many years ago.
>> how did they fit into this giving speeches the museum of history was no mention of the influence from the year earlier period i placed him in a way of a nationalist much less willing to except the contributions even though he had a fractious relationship he was often follow his orders and his emphasis of
at the cross pollination between china and the west and he ignores that. but the party state is minimizing those contributions were the reality is is clearly not. >> questions i had is that was reading the story that parallelism is hard to maintain the two-story but aren't these fascinating period are sidebars but they seem to be closer to the mainstream story so in essence of breeding more of the china story so can you
china pushing will give further to the last as the dream aspect americans were just not that concerned to deal with the degradations looking perhaps as a potential ally. selling did say natural push the the influence of chinese immigrants to the united states and that was one strand of influence. with the occasional interest
of the chinese tradition but if you say anything from contemporary coulter coulter --- coulter r. is there any cultural influence? >>. >> if you talk more broadly about the chinese soft power there is very of little soft power around the world and even more so. sunday constrictions on culture and to explore the cultural ideas. and then you have much less out.
so that is a natural weakness. but another strain of influence is how they had used china as petri dish for american ideas. it as dave fulbright foundation. into those are taken by americanamerican s. i just don't see it very much. than the movie with matt damon those that are competing for soft powers i have not seen the great wall
yet but to read those reviews added is a work in process but 1935 alone more than 350 million movies. but then to get translated to china. so what do you attribute to that fascination and the various period and then creeping up after words? rebecca cultural soft power to play out in china. >> it has framed lot of the of way the chinese will tell their own story. was deep as americans were
involved in the beginning so if you look at jazz in the 1920's because they were playing places like hot dog stands and the chinese economy is in shanghai. to then will look up with the chinese music caught - - music to have a chinese version. and with those chinese traditional folk song those that would that would be the chinese songbook.
run the second avenue subway? with the cause of great hilarity. and then took 20 years to build one mind of subway down your city said to be the analogous let with the culture to look down there noses of the united states. to make a key contribution and that he actually had a design then boeing cut the $50 check. >> those that as a
collective suspense that they played of conveyors of values could you tell us a little bit about that? american missionary because that would merit the book in its own right. lot of americans in the north were in the abolitionist movement. when they graduate from college they had limited career options. but the opportunity to become a missionary was to american women because as that experienced grew in china with the realization
and then we have to have american women but those that are married to those preachers to go to china to prophesies. so for a while their largest chunk of all missionaries event got deeply involved with the first literacy campaign and deeply involved that where we were ultimately successful. and to be a place all the you could be. and then to be effectively
banned with the sheriff departments to barely get a job that the college level. said to have that first career woman. that'd save fascinating strain you have a lot of american women were as in the united states would be more difficult but also hillary clinton. and with her debacle over health care and from my perspective is not coincidental.
but again china has a bizarre role the. >> what about the chinese women you mention these aviators and the chinese-americans that chain the chinese to chinatown first there was the significant group to be educated back to china that story is fascinating because those that were prof with sizing in china pet they ever told ago find a nice to chinese christian husband but these women said i will not do you tell me so from the first class for women's college said to be like the
single american women as of micro culture and on the other side the idea of a powerful woman in the chinese culture you see that in the first non-white ethnic new movie star from chinatown and los angeles when she opens her mouth is like the valley girl and was amazingly transfixed but that chinese reaction to that so that one side she
was mobbed by people as a great movie star bette the chinese conservative as being a sellout because she would wear scanty close in debts that was the reaction. >> you tell the stories which also looking for patterns so what is the useful lens going forward mac this cycle of enchantment with the idea that china will make us all rich. follows inevitably if you think insanity is doing the same thing then they go up
to rise up again that disaster is disenchantment. so where we are going into the future clear from the 1780s through now where we are at this moment is of critical importance. but reading the book that leaguers over it depends on what happens next. about china's eventual liberalization but is then they story about the convergence and the agreement about what is necessary? or is this the erotic or
tragic story from the legislative point of view of the eventual decline? that gives a very different feel. so with that articulated expectations or is this a story of america? you must have thought of those different things and you don't have an answer to that but how do you see that story with how that might play out? >> since the 1800's united states generally had a strong china in the interest of the united states. that is an example and the cold war.
so now we have a strong china so at least on the surface so we are confronting bill will problem so i think we are in between that place and right now very much at crossroads with relationships going forward in very specific things like how we deal with north korea they're very policy in the week issues and how that plays out with the social problems and how we deal with our is individually with those
factors as well but i think we're at a crossroads with that and injuring another five years this is a story that will be compelling. what they non-american decline of us sometimes but the chinese definitely the potential for ameritech to fall on its face but americans overestimate china's ability and that is something we need to bear in mind as we like it is going forward senate having been involved in china more than 40 years you have heard a lot from those chinese interlocutors understanding them far better so that this
marvelous to behold it to study english what is your take on china's understanding of the united states and how we deal with each other and then turn that around what about america's understandings? >> the chinese have a difficulty understanding american civil society and the rule that it plays to keep the wheels from falling off but they also pull us together there is a massive fund-raising bench and he
did not understand why so he needed me to go back and watch them through. yes that is related to religious values. not necessarily but there was a full value discussion so even today with the second avenue subway the way they do look at america and a positive way is the american values that don't quite get were those values come from and they have a difficulty understanding how america could write itself as the nature of our system don't understand that and they look at the separation
of powers is an efficient that understand was made to be that way so those fundamental misunderstandings is something is in the chinese dna but on the american side for beverly real difficulty we look at them as a totalitarian juggernaut but in reality and now even more so that are pushing one way or the other or advocating for the chinese political system is very complicated for americans the others is to have a tendency to underestimate that problem
>> one measure of a society is to look to the arch and all my time in china i was fascinated to look at some operas if that this indication that personification of china is part of the urban chinese woman. and those western values coming into south korea. >> through south korea and japanese it is enormous but so is the american dating
game influence on china as well. and reality television as well. because so many people were allowed to vote on tv for their star so they were considered a call to revolution then "sex and the city" and then it becomes influential. is now used in the communist party so those parallels it is funny because in the '60s they had anti-american campaigns during the korean war and the soviet
ambassador complained getting the chinese to hate the united states for the horrible things they have done so i take the point on the survey to go towards the in american government so that just eats up that culture. then had to million-dollar is in revenue. one of the early stories to tell is of the american ambassador and the anti-western feeling of the chinese authorities not just the communist party what the is he attribute that to? or is that the chinese reflection?
you keep on hearing we don't pay enough attention. >> deep in china there is a desire to think of themselves as separate from other parts of the world to take the science and the culture they will remain chinese and not be influenced by the foreign cultures with buddhism being example but for the chinese to embrace that cross pollination with that fear of the chaos that when they looked at the united states is chaos and what values are transported into china. i have lots of friends that participate in us tenement's
square crackdown some have become extremely wealthy millionaires if you talk about those graduate students and what they think now to say we don't have your values if we word democratic we would be killing each other under the space so the sense that they are superior to us or inferior is out of the mouth of one person it is always very hard to unpack either one party of authoritarian rule or food and fades into?
>> against the biggest break between china relations is the establishment of the people's republic so do you think the relationship between the two countries if chiang kai-shek had won instead of mao? >> can i answer that with one word quack. >> yes. [laughter] there are a lot of different historical views but my belief is what created the foundation for the communists date was the invasion of japan that is
in the style business there is one month if you have geopolitics there is another lens. over the last period of time china has understood what it wants from america more than america understands what it wants from china so the chinese system has helped to pursue interest more efficiently and america has allowed to pursue its interest so china looks that the relationship but clearly based on specific national interest where america has a tendency to look long term and not worry about short-term interest that has created problems for the
united states more than chinese and this has benefited then in the short-term or if you put money down today hoping to get something tomorrow so from now prospective the chinese and the government have played america better than america has played to enact maybe they have relatively more success. >> you spoke earlier about the demographic issues so please compare and contrast those demographic issues with those facing the united states. >> that's a great question. sometimes this year but definitely by 2020 the average age will be data
above the united states title of a larger percentage of the population above 60 by 2,025,100,000,000 people will be above the age of 80 the chinese knowledge it is a serious problem and to create a lot of cascading challenges with the workforce that is shrinking does not grow well as quickly we have to renovate a less the open society to innovation and the long-term ones to make toys by phones suspending a lot of money on innovation spending money on
robotics they don't have a labor force so china has attempted to right the balance but the chinese alike have many babies basso to raise the emerson them to special schools and then the ultimate issue did not make an attractive potential spouse but even in the real-estate market is a huge pressure on the chinese family so i think this will give some wiggle room with the demographics to be a crucial problem demographers in america say chinese so be one of the first. >> with our demographic
profile is a little strong there's some say by the end of the pocket one nation century it will be twice that of the united states. >> that depends on the immigration policy abel it could change any day laugh laugh. >> a wonderful talk is there a huge disparity between the number of chinese with under of number of americans studying in china even when adjusted for a total population during the course of this study they can see what is in front of their eyes so what is the
consequence of the huge disparity of numbers by. >> that is the great question the huge growth areas near that high-school with all sorts of various shenanigans there was a situation in los angeles they recalled parachute kids so when terms of numbers it is enormous with an effort to get 100,000 americans at any given time. perhaps that accounts as the educational experience it is a lot smaller than it used to be because a student at to spend six months in
beijing breathing the air and to study abroad and then to have chinese people going back to china with a joint venture companies and that area is of beijing are shanghai are very small with organic produce but ideas like that have come to china some that does create a nice pollination. americas has always had that
problem we're just not a country that spends a lot of time thinking about overseas because the chinese like to the key to their modernization this is a historical problem with any major country we will lack expertise but those studies note china really well with other people including this institute and elsewhere and from my perspective and a chinese person has an understanding of the united states but to access the information here is a much more open than it is in
china. >> from what i have heard a sense it is more on foreign relations because they talk about those institutions within the government quite. >> so we look back to more traditional parts of history and focus more on the diplomats which these to my question how america has thought about the chinese perception because the
leaves back to most of the 20th century to be very conspicuous with those chinese diplomats so my question is have you see that influence with of predictability of u.s.-china relations? >> that did assayed great question i cannot predict the future very well. [laughter] but in terms of that story with america is education with a columbia university student but his story is
fascinating because obviously educated in the united states he was also an actor at columbia and editor of the newspaper to be very involved then he left before he graduated to work for other chinese officials and alternately he came to the peace conference with the idea the americans would back china to get the japanese province back it is part of world war i german occupied so with his great american education was assured by the american delegation we have your back. the sad to say when the chips fell the chinese did
not get them back much of china was led down sowed despite the fact americans to help pdf found in those and you there chinese to the better sense at that critical moment that is one of the key moments for america lost a portion of china. >> you mentioned in passing soft power of the chinese we know about the russian news china publishes a weekly newspaper and television
could hire hundreds of americans of journalists what are they trying to accomplish quite. >> baird trying to sell another story about china i dunno if they are accomplishing that. viewership is low in some cases it is from galveston in texas but they just don't have that much it will only and cool nights after a 11:00 p.m. but in some parts
of the world that has been successful. so is this the better and faster news agency in africa posole lot of africans redo stations rely on those agencies more than the western agencies. in america idol think it has been a success and those that have their own narrative to sell but the chinese relatively well so that will have traction. >> let me go back to the middle.
>> looking at constraints with the discussion of the demographics what about water and air pollution from much of a constraint can that be correct. >> and no one to get into chinese contemporary environmental issues. >> that is a follow-up of the diplomatic relations in this world internet connections everywhere you look what role does public diplomacy play if it wasn't possible 10 years ago greg. >> is a huge problem with
china to cause political instability in this fascinating actually and is a great story. the epa is deeply engaged specifically on cashews like acid rain those are significant lead diminished from the past to figure out a program out to monitor all the firepower they were equipped with scrubbers now of the epa has helped the chinese epa so sulfur dioxide is seriously diminished so the embassy had a desire to help americans figure out what
the air quality was like and then a couple of years after that it was sullen and hourly basis for that was on the day-to-day aggregate basis sometimes the sky is lit by afternoon did is black soul in the family is the plan directed these so that activity began as a service that grew into a massive phenomenon where people entered the vernacular of the chinese and the consciousness was raised but done by the
embassy so to talk about the human rights advance the unwitting act of chinese human rights to raise the consciousness of their environment without a policy from the national security council. but if americans try to do public diplomacy they fall on their face. but there is like this with the twitter feed it is extraordinarily successful probably the most successful operation in china because it was not one. . .
>> thank you for a terrific, not only presentation, but all the answers to the questions. my question is based on an occasional report under about underground christianity in china. is this a real phenomenon? do you see it growing? what kind of transformation but it have? >> we will take a second question. >> as far as looking ahead in the future, might it be more products made in america that built by robotics made in china? >> i will answer the second question first. very likely. i mean it is clear the chinese are setting the foundation for 21st-22nd century economy whether they are going to get there is still an open question.
but there is no shortage of entrepreneurial zeal and ambition. christianity is a real phenomenon in china. it is something the chinese government has a spasmatic relationship with. crack there are probably as many missionaries in china now as there was in the '20s but they are masked as english teachers. it is evangelical kind of christianity that is appealing to many chinese. it isn't just rural but urban.
an entrepreneurial city on the coast of china the estimate is 20% is christian. 80-100 million christians in china the ballpark statistic. it is definitely part of this process of chinese search for meaning with the collapse of the thoughts. buddhism is large. the other question down front? >> yes, sir.
>> wait for the mic if you could. >> this may be a follow-up to the question just asked but i am wondering if there is increasing pressure from chinese business men to perhaps enter into joint venturing, if you will, with the american business to help their economy and likewise is there more entrance in our country in american businesses. >> the trading relationship between our countries has been started to become robust in the 1980s. it really took off in the 1990s. it exploded after 2001. that said, the business community in america is split on how it views china. in the past, it used to be after
the collapse of the soviet union and tinman square it was the main thing that kept the relationship on an even keel. now, back to the question if you are a high technology manufacturer and you want to do business in china. the chinese company that obligates you to give them your family jewels, if you will, in exchange for access to china's market. it means you will have a chinese competitor making your same product and continuing with you at a lower price. it is a false bargain. that continual issue is something that is causing issues in the u.s. business community. in the past the business community was the bull work of keeping u.s.-china relations on an even keel and now you see more disenchantment with china.
now we are a u.s. business community that is trough on the chinese. there is no shortage of chinese firms, state run and private, who want to by firms in america that have advanced technology that they will perhaps use in america for a while but others want to bring back to china so they can then compete with american rivals. >> thank you. yes, sir? in the back. >> yes, fantast discussions. are the chinese people learning more about the history of m mal say dong? and the suffering he caused the people. >> in terms of his victory
writing in china, we have kind of gone back in time. in the last four or fives years parties launched n attack on what is called historical nealism which is writing about the bad things that happened after 1949. as a result, a lot of issues in terms of china's relations with the rest of the world, how their countries helped china, specifically the most glaring example is japan's role in the rise of 1989, those don't exist in terms of poplar histories available to chinese. the story china did it himself and the story of mao was 30% incorrect and 70% correct but we don't write about the 30%. books about thecultural revolution are repressed and
banned in china. it is significantly more conservative than it was in the 1980s when i first went to china. >> i would like to ask one final question following on the students of education comment. i think you gave a good overview why it is a lot of americans are going to china now. cost, pollution, whatever it may be. take that at the gates of the american academy that abandoned studies so we are no longer providing a broad education of the source i assume you had at stanford. this was a blackground in history, philosophy, art, literature. that most leadings experts had and now we tend to hyperspecialize early on.
how are we doing in terms of preparing americans to really be able to understand this kind of complex history and to work across these various areas to strive to have a constructive relationship with china? ho do you see that changing since your university days? >> i think that is a good point. i am in environmental stulled studies looking at pollution. or economics and looking at chinese tariffs. so the specialization is increasing. it makes it great in some sense because they can do deep dives but in terms of a broad understanding of us and them it is much more difficult. as a result, i don't know what the kind of increasing focus on like one dot on a pen is going
to impact the broader community but it ultimately you do still need generalists in there. the lack of generalists is apparent. everyone i bump into has his or her speciality even though they are a sophomore and that is not necessarily positive. >> i would like to thank you for coming and thank our viewers on c-span and thank our offer, john pomfret. >> thanks a lot. thank you. [applause]
>> live sunday at noon eastern, investigative journalists and any jacobson is your guest. >> it is clear it is using humans in the military environment toward being comfortable with the idea of merging man and machine. >> she is known for writings on war, weapons, security and government secrets and will discuss area 51, operation paper clip the pentagon's brain and
her most recent "phenomenon". join us sunday at noon eastern on in deping. >> we are standing in front of the john goodall mansion. as we continue our look at literary culture we will hear an author's stories about the life and writing of this california pioneer. john bidwell is famous for the first wagon train immigrant party who came from the frontier of the united states, at that time in missouri, and blazed the california trail in 1841 to northern california ain