tv Jack Barsky Discusses Deep Undercover CSPAN April 29, 2017 9:00am-9:56am EDT
we are able to get together quickly to have this man here with you today. if you don't know his background, we will talk about it today. will give you a brief introduction. this is a life as probable as it comes. we talk about how pop-culture is not necessarily true, in many ways about how it over exaggerates what espionage is. here we will see a true spy story that turned into a downright fascinating story about a man recruited by the kgb to infiltrate the united states he spent ten years
buying for the soviets. he said he resigned and i'm not sure he can actually do that but he embarked on a successful career on information management. when he was discovered by the fbi in the 19 '90s he had a wealth of information to give him. in return they let him become a real u.s. citizen and he is as patriotic as you and i. taking advantage of all of the things he couldn't have behind the iron curtain here in the united states, he is the longest surviving known member of the kgb program that operated during the cold war. you have seen shows like the americans, those were soviet illegals. jack is the longest surviving member and operated for many years inside the united states. he is also the author of deep undercover which we will have
in the back and if you stay he will be happy to sign them. welcome jack. >> can i say something. >> absolutely. >> ththe longest surviving member is important to me. i am very competitive. the person who had the record was colonel able. his real name was eddie fisher. he was featured in the bridge of spies. he managed to stay here undetected for eight years. i managed for ten and another nine until the fbi found me but after ten i did that resignation thing. >> i would say surviving is the key word. i want to start by talking about lock. i think luck plays a key role in your story, both good and bad. starting with where you were
born, a lot of people have conversations about being lucky to be born in the united states and we couldn't imagine being born in a third world country. you were born in germany when there wasn't a lot of creature comforts. during the second world war the soviets had stripped most of what mattered. that was the world you were born into. >> that's right. as far east as you could go without being in poland, i consider myself as a result of world war ii because my parents met because towards the end of the war, people would flee the oncoming russian army and go west and wound up in the same space and that's how i got created in 1949. without that war, i wouldn't be here, and i wound up in the
soviet occupied part of germany which then became the german democratic republic, a communist to the soviet union so without communists i would've signed up for the kgb and without that i wouldn't be here and without that i wouldn't be an american citizen. this has gone a bit bizarre but there's a lot to my story where you shake your head and say that really happened. >> without the war, you wouldn't have been in this position because many people may not understand that in east germany during the time, the war was very fresh and hitler was very fresh and fighting fascism and stalin leading the fight and doing all this heavy lifting against the germans during the war. how did that shape your youth and your ideology. >> the soviet union, as some
of you may not know for the heaviest front in the fight against hitler. east germany became under soviet influence and we were very glad that we were, we were an anti- fascist type nation, and i told people this is one of the biggest mistakes the united states made of the cia or whoever made the decision to co-op not the military intelligence also known as the galen organization. it was an organization that we knew that was co-opted by the cia and eventually became west german intelligence so they were nazis and we were on the other side because the only
political force that actually fought the nazis in the street where the communists. so we were the good guys and they were the bad guys. i believe that juxtaposition allowed for years and years of propaganda. there was a chancellor in west germany who had been a member of the nazi party. i was ideologically fully convinced that we were on the right side of history and that was the major reason i jumped in and said yes when the kgb knocked on the door. >> it is one thing to learn basic trade craft that can be taught, it's another thing to have a psychological makeup to be an undercover spy inside the united states. what of your upbringing and intelligence and everything you learned until you were recruited by the kgb may do
the right person for this kind of job. >> it was a pretty tough life, we were poor but we didn't know it, there was a lot of delayed gratification involved, there was a lot of discipline. my parents were typical germans and i had to follow their rules to a t. i learned early on that nobody really cared about me so i had to take care of myself. there are a bunch of examples in the book about that. there's a mental toughness, my mother kicked me out of the house early. she meant well purge she sent me to a boarding school when i was 14 so i learned how to say goodbye and i went to university that was so far away that i never had a chance to go home, only during summer recess. there were a lot of things
that were in combination that made me good from a psychology aspect, a good candidate to say goodbye to everything i knew and everyone i knew and start over somewhere somewhere else. i can still do it today. i just move my family from upstate new york to atlanta. it didn't bother me one bit. my girls, my wife and my daughter, they are homesick and i am not. >> today if you wanted to join the cia, you go online and appl apply. the kgb had a different way of doing things. when they recruited you, they didn't just take up work for us. you laid this out in the book well. the really slow played your recruitment. didn't come right out and say
we want you to join the kgb, they took the time to make sure you are the right fit. talk about your recruitment process. >> it was a mutual feeling out. initially the question was asked, would you be interested in something like this. at that point it was quite clear that i could've said no when i said well, let's take a look, they needed to find out for themselves if i was the right material, because from early on it was clear that if i were to sign with them it would be for undercover work. thousands pointed out, it requires a certain personality to be able to do that so they learned about me, i met with
my handler once a week and we talked about everything, life issues and we became good friends. he got to know me very well. on top of that he gave me little tasks, try this, go do an investigation over there, find out about this object, write a report and on and on. i bet you he wrote a report back to the center every time we met. on my end, he gradually introduced me to the idea of what it would be like to do this kind of work. it took about a year end a half before they popped the question and when that question was popped, it was done by a very senior person in berlin and i had 24 hours to say yes or no. i could have said no at that point, still, because for this kind of work you don't work with somebody who you are
encouraged or forced into the service. it has to be volunteer. >> and when asked about a question about a training mission in west berlin that was your first chance to see the west i have been given to you through propaganda and other ideas. what did you see when you went to west berlin. did it change your ideology or reinforce what you have been told. >> first of all i need to give folks perspective. in those days, we didn't have color tv and i lived in an area where you couldn't get west german tv at all. we called it the value of the clueless. i had no idea what i would find on the other side of the wall. have first impression i thought oh my, there's a lot of color in this world. the buildings have color,
people were dressed nicely, in the east everything was gray and brown. that was interesting but it certainly didn't make a dent in my ideology. the other thing, i was scared out of my mind. i was running -- i felt like i was running around with kgb on my four head. it was rather stressful because this was enemy territory. this was the folks that i was going to fight, in my sort of way. >> we were joking when we talked earlier that we would have you come out with a thick german accent so the americans wouldn't understand, but clearly you don't have one. if anything you have a jersey accent. you learned english as a
second language. let's talk about your english training. many have taken a language in school. learning english or learning a second language to be as deep undercover as you were it was not just learning vocabulary and slang and accents. how did that work for you. >> you doing it again. you asked me like three questions. [laughter] i studied russian for six years and i remember next to nothing. we also had voluntary english. we could take french or english. that came very easily to me but i didn't retain much. when i wasn't training in berlin, i was supposed to be headed to west germany, that was the normal way, to send a
german to the other side of germany uncover, that's really easy. i was also told you have to learn something else i started learning english and as i told you before, i'm pretty competitive. i worked hard. i learned and i learned in about a year end half into my training a visitor came over and asked me how's your english, and i pulled out a book and i said i'm reading this novel by the way. i don't need a dictionary. is that okay, why don't you make it tape and see what you sound like so i made a tape and sent it to moscow and they immediately flew me into moscow and had me interview with two ladies. one was a professor of english in russian and worked for the kgb, obviously, and another was an american who immigrated
, she married a russian, most likely kgb, and they interviewed me separately and wanted to determine if i had the ability to learn english well enough to claim to have been born in the united states. it was a tie. the american said he can and the russian professor said no way. here's when rush wishful thinking comes in, when they made the decision and figured let's give it a shot, it's too tempting so i spent two years in moscow learning english with an american tutor in a couple who is well known in the spy museum, and i flew --
through myself at the task and wanted to succeed. i now speak english much better than i speak german. that's a fact. >> do you still identify with your german name and background? have you completely left that behind her is there still something in in you. >> i went back to germany since i became a citizen, three times, and those folks call me by my german name or nickname emma which i hate, but it's okay over there. i am certainly more the america american, i have proof of that. i was driving with a history professor the other day in atlanta and i used us and them and we and they and she said i caught you.
you are referring to the germans as them. i've long since stopped thinking in german, but one thing is interesting, i read this in a book one day and it's still true, i count in german. >> do you ever dream in german. >> not anymore. after about a year in the u.s., i proudly reported back to the center that i'm now dreaming in english because i remember that very well. >> who was jack barsky. where does your name come from? >> it was stolen. that was standard operating procedure. that's how the soviets manufactured false ids. they look for records of individuals who passed away at a young age.
in my case there is a cemetery someplace in maryland, i forgot the town but there's a gravestone that says jack barsk barsky, born 1944, passed away 1954. he was ten years old. one of the resident agents who probably worked at the embassy found it and got the birth certificate, pretending to be the father of the young boy and then it was sent to moscow and i took that with me when i came to the united states and used it to build an id and an identity with genuine american documents. >> it wasn't just about building a name. there's a whole tax story. cover and id is one thing. the kgb helped to create an entire person behind jack
barsky. >> sure. according to the birth certificate, i was born in 44, so that made me in my early 30s when i came here. it made me five years older than i really am. we constructed a cover story that started with the birth certificate and an agent in new york took pictures of places i could have lived and where i went to school, middle school, elementary school, high school, in even found information about a factory that i could've worked out that was a factory downtown manhattan that manufactured chemicals and had burned down so there was no more record of the factory.
we covered my life in the u.s. as having worked in a factory, and then we came up with an idea that i dropped out of high school since i didn't have a high school diploma and my mother passed away during that time and i moved up and worked on a farm in upstate new york for several years. i dropped out of society and i came back to new york to give it another try. i never really used any of that legend but it gave you the certainty of people ask you questions that you have answers. >> the kgb gave you extensive training, but there are only certain things they didn't know, some nuances.
two stories i'd like you to bring up. one is about canada and one is about a passport in chicago. can you give those stories quickly so show how the kgb couldn't prepare you for every circumstance. >> the matter how much we think about what could happen, there's things you are not prepared for. here are some weird issues where i didn't have the cultural training to be an american right away that took a while to assimilate. i took a test trip to canada for three months to learn to live and speak the language and be as close to the united states as possible without being in it. the first night i went to dinner in a restaurant and got a bottle of beer and i'm looking around and there's no bottle opener so i asked the waiter, i was proud of the
fact that i knew the english word for bottle opener and i said can i have a bottle opener and he looked at me odd. i said i need to open this thing and with a smirk on his face, he twisted the cap off. we didn't have twist off caps in east germany or russia. that was weird, wasn't it. i traveled with the westerman passport so they did have twist ops. the other one is it's only funny in hindsight. when i entered the united states through o'hare airport in chicago, i was traveling, i was using a canadian passport and i had flown into -- i had
thrown into my luggage, this birth certificate of jack barsky. i went to a hotel and that's where i killed off the canadian and brought to life jack barsky, but the killing was much harder than expected. how do you destroy a passport. they are flame retardant. it started smelling and it wouldn't burn and you start sweating, you're making a stink in a hotel room and hopefully nobody will stop by and ask what's going on. the fire alarm didn't go off so i took a pair of scissors and cut it into small pieces and flushed it down the toilet. that was not part of the curriculum, how to destroy a passport. >> there are hilarious moments where i put the book down laughing, another one was when
i put myself in your shoes and i imagined, i haven't been in undergrad for a long time, but you got the pleasure, you are going to be a professor before you are brought into the kgb but because you didn't have a degree in the united states, even a high school degree, you had a go be a freshman at city college of new york and take freshman classes that you use to actually teach as a professor like chemistry 101 in calculus one. obviously you did pretty well, almost too well. >> i taught at a much higher level than anything i was exposed to at the undergraduate level. chemistry 101 was like mickey mouse stuff. calculus 12 and three, i taught at a more advanced level than that stuff. these subjects were all a breeze. i have to tell you, i did not
cut corners. for foreign language, i did not take german. [laughter] i did not take spinach which i had acquired -- spanish which i had acquired on my own, i took french. there was an outcome that was unplanned and had something to do with still being ignorant about certain aspects of society. i aced the whole program so now i'm a valedictorian. they called me into the office and said okay, we would like, you need to give a speech. i said what? no. yes, yesterday you have the best gpa. i said well i don't really deserve it. let some younger kids do this but no, no, by the way, if you feel uncomfortable, you can write it and let some idiots read it. that i couldn't accept.
here is the undercover kgb agent giving a valedictorian speech at the united states college. >> in new york city. >> yes, in new york city and nobody noticed this was a little bit odd in terms of my age and the fact that i actually went to the program in three years, nobody was alert that there was something kind of unusual about this guy. >> another great story from this time was that you befriended a young man from hong kong who you taught english to, which is fantastic, the fact that you, he asked you, your english, you are a native speaker. >> i noticed something, he was in political science class and sitting next to me and he
underlined a lot of his book. i told him listen, you have so much yellow that it's useless. your underlying almost the entire book. he said these are the words i don't understand. he had just come from china and was learning english in china. i took him under my wing and i said i applied what i learned in moscow, i bought a book, a phonetics book and we did phonetics exercises and i helped him learn english and he actually wound up writing an essay for his application to law school at columbia and one of them he wrote about me. >> how this nice american helped him learn english. >> yes, yes. he is now a very wealthy, very successful attorney in new york. >> now you have multiple degrees from multiple
continents and you've gone on to your career which is working in information management for metlife, the big bad nasty capitalist insurance company, not exactly what you expected when you got there. >> this is not an exaggeration. the insurance company, for some reason, were singled out as the epitome of evil in capitalism. so, when i started working at metlife, they were all still mutual and they were very paternalistic. in other words, the unspoken, or sometimes the directly spoken compact is if you start with us, you will retire with us. you are going to work here until retirement and get a gold watch and get a pension. oh, wow, i felt like i was back home. instead of the insurance
company back home it was the state or the government that told you where to go and they would take care of you and it was the same kind of feeling and it felt really good because i was still so use to cradle-to-grave and this was close enough. there weren't any evil people and the bosses were pretty nice and they paid as well and we got free lunch, pretty good. that started, at that point i started softening my attitude toward capitalism and the united states, up until that point i had no point of reference because as a bike messenger, i wasn't really functioning member of society and as a student i would've known either. >> after ten years of working in the united states for kgb you got the emergency signal to leave which is, people may have seen this in a tv show or movie where you've got the signal, a secret signal on the street saying drop everything
and go. >> that's real. that was one of the more poignant moments in my life. i had to tell the kgb in detail how i went from my apartment to work or at least to the subway, and also which trains i took, but they knew the footpath that i used to get to the subway station and there was a spot that i described to them where they could put signals and the emergency signal was a red dot and it was about the size, and one day i walked to the subway and i saw the.. now were being filmed and i can't say the f word but that's what came into my head. that meant it was time to go.
unbeknownst to the folks in moscow, i had a daughter here was 18 months old. i had bonded her with her as many fathers in the audience know what i'm talking about, this was the first child that i was watching her grow up. this was the first instance that i experienced unconditional love that means you don't want
anything, you love the no matter what, you don't want anything in return. it broke my heart thinking that i might not be able to ever see her again if i go back. even more so, i was afraid that she might not have a good life growing up without my support. it was a tough decision to make but i did make it, eventually, and i stayed back to back this was in 1988? you are 48 years old and you talked about those 40 years you had never kind of had that attachment. >> i was able to walk away from everybody and rather save it under and shamefully, my german spouse. >> the kgb doesn't let people walk away. how did you, and i love the
story, it's disturbing at the same time but how did you convince the kgb to leave you alone? >> i wanted to make sure that they wouldn't come after me or do harm to my german family. i was racking my brain what i do , what do i do. i needed to tell them that i'm not following orders. i wrote a dear john letter and it went something like this, dear comrades, i have to tell you that i decided not to come back because i have contracted aids and the only place where i could get treatment is this country. then i added some supporting information and traced it back to somebody i got the eggs from. it worked. i note that they believed it. how do i know it?
because i also told him to give my german wife the money that was saved on my account, and they did they told your german wife that you had died of aids? yes, they did. i know that because my son who is now 33 years old, we've been in contact for the last five years, he told me the story of what it was like to be at the other end. >> your story shift dramatically when the fbi shows up at your door. let how did the fbi found out about you in the first place? >> that's another dramatic moment. i did not think there would be another one. when i was in the clear and pretty much thought, after about three months, after i did that resignation thing, i thought everything was okay.
i thought i would blend in with american society and live out my life as a american middle-class with the family. my wife and i, bought a house and we had a child. everything was normal. i forgot about my past. unbeknownst to me, there was a fellow busy copy notes in the kgb archive and he smuggled them out in small pieces of paper, in his socks and in transcribe them into his home and buried the stuff in the milk can and eventually -- at first, he approached the cia and i believe the cia, american embassy, didn't believe him. so he went to the british and they got him out of there. it was just after the soviet union came down. certainly, they want to let him out that easily.
he had a suitcase full of information and one piece of the information was jack barsky was an illegal. they didn't have much more. that came to the fbi and they started looking for jack barsky. there are not too many jack barsky and pretty soon they zeroed in on the fellow who lived in a village in pennsylvania and started investigating me. they were very, very careful. at the time, there were a couple of really bad cases of espionage , mold in the cia and fbi. alldredge james in the cia. they were concerned that i may be running somebody in the government. it took them three-four years to
investigate me very, very carefully. mostly, at that time i was the number one case on their list of counterintelligence cases. one day, eventually, they decided to go for the kill, so to speak, and they said hello. that was a tense moment, trust me. [laughter] the man who said hello was an fbi agent named joe riley, now retired. your close friends with him now? >> yes, i am. i spent four days at his house a little while ago. i'm a book tour and we went to the valley and spent some time -- he me. he's the godfather to my last child, my daughter. we are really close. we are close in many respects. we like golf, we are politically sort of have the same ideas, obviously, we have the same
background. except for one point, we were supposedly enemies and i tell you that sometimes you associate yourself with the group and become an enemy of another group but the individual and the other group could be just as good a friend as the friends in your group. it's strange let me ask you a couple broader cultural questions. when you're trying to explain to laypeople what you were, coming here today, it's like philip jennings from the americans but he didn't kill a lot of people. what do you think of that? what do you think of cy fiction? this is a very popular tv show, the americans, based on -- do you watch it in chuckle or do you go okay there is something. >> the americans is the best show ever made because i will be on as an extra. we didn't plan this.
may 9th episode 510. i don't have a speaking part but i know, i have a relationship with the creators and to coproduce. they know what they are doing. they're doing entertainment. what they are doing really well is the psychology of undercover existence. if you've seen it, philip is consciously drawn to the american way of life and he would tell his wife, why don't we just stay here we have a good life? she is the one who is bringing back in mind that that is quite realistic. the other thing is that it got delicious when their daughter becomes a christian. other than that, i am not aware of a realistic fiction of the kind of work that i did can you talk about philip strive to become more like an american. one final question about all of
us grew up in the united states. we have memories or nostalgia about americana, greet we grew up watching baseball, or american movies. the american movies i saw when i was seven years old, i still bring up today and quote scenes and lines from movies when i was a kid. how much, or when, if you did, did you embrace american culture and what do you say now is the thing that you embraced the most are you a yankees fan? not that you should be, but are you a yankees fan? or is there a i love john hughes movies. you might not be the right generation. but what part of americana that you really embraced? >> i became a yankees fan when my son became a baseball fan. every birthday from certain age i would take to a yankees game
and pay a lot of money for good seats. i understand baseball better than football and i've always played basketball. that part i like. let me tell you what i like the most about this country and this will not be something you might expect. it's the constitution. in the bill of rights. if you go back and read what the founding fathers meant to create , it is awesome. unfortunately, there are some forces at work to get away from that. that makes me sad. >> were going to open it up for questions. if you wait, amanda and shauna both have a microphone. let them come to you. peter, get the first person as executive director.
>> thank you, very much for your presentation. you haven't talked about your collection. what kind of information did you collect and transmit back to the kgb? >> i was in political intelligence. quite honestly, i never personally handed any state secrets, handled any state secrets or handed them over. i was not in a position to do so one of my tasks was to identify individuals who might be candidates for recruitment. i never knew what happened to those, whether people were being recruited successfully, no idea. i would occasionally, not periodically, send reports on them react of the american public to certain things. elections -- because i was living in society rather than
looking at it from the outside, so, then i did a few one-off tasks. toward the end of my ten years, they asked me to also see if i could get my hands on some technology. i did send over a collection of computer programs. that's pretty much it. so, you know, when people asked me if i was successful, probably not very much. you did send up a dead drop, you might want to mention. >> as an illegal, i could do things, that resident agents fought with diplomatic cover could do. for instance, there was an i don't know if there still is, the soviets were under restriction. they couldn't travel outside 30 miles or whatever it was a dc or new york. if they did, they had to get
permission. one time i was asked -- first, they asked me if i would do this , if i was ready. i had no idea why they asked me that question but it must've been something extremely sensitive. go find a drop site someplace in new hampshire and when the time comes we may ask you to collect something of a certain size. they told me this wasn't just a litter container, a suitcase or something. i'm thinking that it was most likely to be sort of a go-between between a mole in the united states, could've been hansen or anes to avoid those molds and to have direct contact with the resident agent. that was some of the value that they ascribe to an undercover person. i also was supposed to observe the going on at a military
object, the naval weapons station in red bank, i think it still called earl. there was kind of odd because, you know, i was supposed to go there occasionally and see if there was movement that could indicate preparation for work. this was nostalgic thinking about how they operated in world war ii. lastly, again, in hindsight to me, it's backward thinking the value of any legal that besides being able to move around the country freely was if god for bid, relations were really bad and all diplomats got kicked out they would still have somebody behind enemy lines. you can debate whether that makes a whole lot of sense but particularly when missiles fly
around there's no frontline anyway. >> new york would not be a particularly good place to be that you want to be behind all that much. now, peter. >> thank you for sharing your fascinating story with us. it performs an incredible service. i also think, speaking as an intelligence officer, you may have been more successful than you realize. in other words, a number of people that you spotted for recruitment, you're not really sure what the follow-on was and is quite possible that they followed up on the people you spotted. on your story about the kgb fellow bearing the information, that was victor matrox can. the cia did turn him away. he had a trunk full of secrets. the reason i understood that they turn him away was the officer at the time and i know who it was, i won't name him,
thought this was historical -- they thought it was fast and not much interest. they disbelieved him. the followed story to the british and i understand there was a woman who received him and he told her a story and she said , sit down, wouldn't you like some tea. [laughter] they realized the importance of that trove of information. let me ask you one person. i was struck by the fact that when you first came, i think, when you came to the west, you commented that you were struck by all the colors. what really was the impact of the western way of life, the quality of life, it must have had an extra ordinary impact -- i always felt that people came from the east to the west is that the impact was so strong.
>> yeah, the material wealth was overwhelming. the couple up to trips to west berlin i didn't get to see much. but when i spend time in canada, montréal particularly, there's a big store, department store, that i spent hours in. totally blown away by the rich assortment of things you can buy i wanted some of that. already, this was the beginning of a dichotomy that all of us lived through. we coveted the goods that came from society that we wanted to destroy. that's something that we all varied. we didn't want to think about it , right? it didn't make a dent with regard to my perception of
capitalism, versus socialism because the rational rationalization behind the thinking was that america and west germany were rich because they exploited the third world. they got their wealth out of south america, africa, so forth. that's what we were taught. >> hi. i'm christopher from the german spy museum. i have two small questions. the first one, why do you think that you are picked by the kgb and not the firm? been born in eastside germany, you would've struck me as a tenure for the kgb and the second one is you mentioned the incident of the. [inaudible] you saw some of these. [inaudible] that turned open in germany.
i lived in germany for 33 years and never saw one of them. [laughter] >> then, i just told you a life. i didn't know that. interesting. >> as a historian, in the 50s and early 60s, you basically had a lot of influx in the marshall plan of america into west germany. maybe there were. >> that's my story and i'm sticking to it. >> were you handed off to the kgb because you are potentially so good? >> i'm not sure that even my first contact. i thought, but in hindsight, the kgb worked was pretty welled off . their speaker which was a german news magazine did some research
and they were looking for anything about me in the archives. there's no trace of it. i'm one of the few germans that doesn't have a record in their. i'm guessing that somehow the russians got to me first and told the stasi to stay away from the sky. i don't know what the mcaninch mechanics were, how they could take some people, stasi got most of them. they had a couple thousand of agents and west germany. you wonder why the russians wanted to have somebody else and west germany but they had me go there first before. >> my question has to do with the family dynamic of this thing
. agent riley shows up at your door, says hey were at the fbi and were looking at you. how does this reveal to go to your american family who i presume didn't know about your history and what sort of building back that trust. hey, my dad is someone i didn't quite know what their back story was. >> my wife knew. this is one thing that i told vince that i don't remember at all but i once told her, we had an argument and i tried to make clear to her what i risked to stay back with her and our daughter chelsea. that was a time when the fbi already had a bug in my kitchen. they had my statement on tape. that backfired by the way because her reaction was, then i'm not legal either. >> she had married you justice
in the country because you are a us citizen. [laughter] >> yes, thank you for pointing that out. >> like the book,. >> we have to save time for signing. she was more legal than i was at that point. my kids were reacting positively i waited for both of them until they were 18 years old. when i told my daughter she cried because how do you prove to a child how much you love them. that was a big one other than maybe throwing yourself in front of a bus to save them. my son when he heard the story's eyes were bigger and bigger because he knew me as is a
working desk jockey in corporate america. i could never explain to him what i did because i was a manager at the time and he once told his friend and i overheard him that my dad doesn't do real work, he's in the office all day . all of a sudden, the faceless bureaucrat became an international spy. he said, dad, we have to write a book. [laughter] >> speaking of a book, please join me in thanking jack barsky for taking the time to talk with us today. he will be making his way to the back if you would like the book sign in to say hello. [applause] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]