tv Amie Parnes and Jonathan Allen Discuss Shattered CSPAN June 1, 2017 7:07pm-8:00pm EDT
characteristics were put on earth is specifically for me to appreciate, or on appreciate or whatever the verb is. because i had really been spending a lot of the last 10 10 - 12 years without knowing it preparing for donald trump to happen. >> met is a contributor to "rolling stone" magazine and author of several books, including "smells like a dead elephants", the great arrangement, a true story war, politics and religion. and his most recent book "insane clown president" during our live three our conversation, we'll take your calls, tweets, facebook questions on his literary career. watch in-depth, with author and journalist matt to -- on sunday.
>> good evening ladies and gentlemen. welcome to barnes and noble upper west side. tonight i have the pleasure of introducing authors jonathan jonathan allen. he is the head of community and content for sideway and writes a weekly column for [roll call]. amy is a senior white house correspondent for the hill newspaper in washington. she covered hillary clinton during the campaign and will cover the trump administration. they have written the acclaimed biography, hrc. tonight they bring us their new book "shattered" inside hillary clinton's campaign. from insiders from top to bottom
jonathan and amy have reconstructed the key decisions and on ceased opportunities the well-intentioned misfires and hidden thorns that turned a winnable contest into a devastating loss. the new york times writes, although the clinton campaign was widely covered and many autopsies have been conducted in the last several months, the blow-by-blow details and shattered and observations made here by campaign and democratic party insiders are nothing less than devastating. sure to dismay not just her supporters, but also everyone who cares about the outcome and momentous consequences of the election. without further and do please help me welcome jonathan and amy. [applause] >> good evening and thank you for coming there is my family
waiting over there, they must have been drinking already what will do is read a little bit of the early chapters of the book, chapter seven and the world talk about what a process was and then take questions to anna starting the? >> we are going to read a little part of chapter seven which is a chapter that centers around iowa. it is called, i was certain we're going to lose. bill clinton was pissed off. he hollered at john podesta loud enough to be heard through the walls of the little room he lay claim to on the tenth floor of the historic hotel in downtown tamoi, iowa. it was the goddamn pendency was watching on tv.
they're getting it all wrong again. as result of the iowa caucus trickled in again. hillary was leading but it was going to be tight. omg will blitz are set on cnn, it does not get a hold closer than that. that assessment invited parallels to hillary's 2008 loss to barack obama. it was in bill's view, an absurd comparison. after all, that had been a three-way race and she was still likely to come out the winner in this night, not the third-place finisher. the journalist on upstart challenger competing with her on iowa and déjà vu was a hard storyline to resist. the outcome tonight ensures this race is going to go on for months and months on the democratic side, blitzer's colleague reported from sanders headquarters. the perceptional night was that hillary was such a prohibitive front runner heading into the democratic nomination that she
should have cleaned up easily. bill had a much different perspective. iowa has never been clinton country. hillary had increased her share of caucus share from under 30% in 2008 to 50%, give or take little in 2016. plus, unlike obama, bernie was tailor-made for iowa. the state is overwhelmingly white littered with colleges and working-class cities. even if bernie managed a victory that was hillary showing strength not weakness. why couldn't they see the difference? on one level it was just another one of bill's routine fits about television personalities. he cursed timorous its name after meet the press host declared obama the winner of the 2008 primary in may of that year. it was another sign of his ability to tamped on his emotions that political moments of his wife's career.
he had gone for a walk earlier in the day and at one point he played all hell, a combination of card game and bs with them. he was a protective husband and concerned democrat and now he was shouting eight years of pent-up frustration at his longtime friend and advisor. >> and when bill had spent himself, podesta, walked into an adjoining space. there, mid- hillary's anxiety ridden consultancy from the man he was looking for. i was state director, matt paul. holding the spectacle and in his mid- 40s, he had a job for agriculture secretary, tom phil sector run by one operation. he had been with her was stops across the state for better part of the her. having served on howard dean's presidential campaign in iowa
and as a former aide to fill second harkin, paul knew the states electorate as well as anyone. podesta beckoned paul with a quick not. you go in and deal with them. paul gathered himself and walked into find the former president sitting in a weather chair. bill was wearing a suit and apparel leather gloves. his arms were crossed. even if it had not been audible through the walls of the hotel it would've been clear that he was in a foul mood. his eyes were fixed on paul. if there's ever a time to make sure i know my stuff, this staffer thought, this is it. bill fired questions at him. what is outstanding in polk county? what about johnson county? what about cedar rapids? paul walked bill through the state and work caucus results haven't been reported county by county. slowly, the president's anger says subsided. even if it's a untried anxiety did it. hillary had a lead as to where
they thought she would be on caucus night. sanders was slowly closing in on her. after paul big briefed bill they repeated the conversation in the room where the rest of hillary's titeam was assessing the situation. bill bore down on paul again. one source noted a market shift in bill's personality. usually when you are with him he is a storyteller, the source said. on this night, he was just an information gatherer. he wanted to know what the staff did not know and why they did not know it. it is much harder to figure out who is winning a caucus state and particularly in iowa because the results are not measured in cast instead there are reported as the number of state delegate equivalents based on the proportion of the vote that each candidate gets from his or her performance at caucus locations. the numbers come in a small fractions. paul gave updates to the president. he remained u upbeat if not rosy
about hillary's chances appointed out. paul concluded about what caucuses remained unreported. if they were in the core of des moines, hillary was screw. if those outside the city she would win. the pollster john looked at the state numbers, same numbers and got a bad feeling. he back channel to podesta while paul was reporting to bill. this is not getting better. this is going to keep going down. he could overtake us. >> let me just say before we go further, we're happy to have c-span here. we love c-span, it is local television for us in washington. we like to thank barnes & noble for hosting us. we found out as we're walking in here today that this book showed up as number one on barnes &
noble on their website today. across the country, so we're happy to be here. we would like to think our team and publisher many people might help make this book possible. we be remiss in not mentioning all of them. they stand along the wall ensures on and they're really responsible for a lot of what appears in the book. without might be interesting for you as if we talked a little bit to each other and kind of interview each other for a few minutes. then take some of your questions. you want to kick it off amy? >> i think this is fun. even though john and i worked together for two books and five years, i think was so that really -- i have an idea of john's favorite moments in the inner workings, but i kind of don't too. we'll kick it off this way and
let you chime in as well. so, maybe let's start off by talking about your favorite moment of the book. >> there is an interesting thing that happened on election night. you may have had similar experience to us which is we're expecting hillary clinton to be the next president of the united states. on like us i assume most of you were not well into writing a book about the selection. one of the first things we discussed in the immediate aftermath of the election, i think a lot of people are trying to get adjusted to the surprise of the election to the transition. for us we had to make an assessment of postal had to go after that was from the pre-election time from the pre-general time and what were the things we're going to need to focus in a at the end of the campaign. we had a lot of reporting from
before the election of the some of the last month or two we haven't had a chance to really talk to folks on the campaign because they shut down around the election. nobody wanted leaks out. we need to do all new reporting on that go back and get things from earlier. one of the decisions we made early was that we thought it would be a tremendous failure on our part if we cannot get a tick-tock of election night of what was going on behind the scenes in the clinton campaign. my favorite part of the book and the thing i feel most invested in is the effort we went to, to talk to people about what was going on.
we have a three or four location tick-tock at the peninsula hotel where hillary clinton and her top aides were in a suite another words rounded all night. a boiler room in midtown, manhattan where her data analytic folks and pollsters and people who are crunching numbers and talking to people out in the states, where they were working. the brooklyn headquarters there are people there as well. and of course the center where her plan victory party was. we spent time trying to piece together what happened in trying to get the time element. there are a lot of things in the book that have not appeared anywhere else. amy and i were the first report in late november because we're afraid somebody would report it before the book came out that president obama had urged hillary clinton to concede when she was not yet ready to on election night. there is more of that story of election night what was going on, what the feelings were and what the emotions and debate were among her staff and among
her family even. to me, that is the part that i am most proud of that we have all of this reporting that no one else did. about this really incredibly shocking moment for not only for the country but also for the clinton people and also the country as well. >> so what is your favorite part of the book? >> will that obviously. it took a lot of work. >> i should also say if you don't mind, every authors favorite part is the byline. this is really the second favorite part. >> it was great actually, i think everybody wanted to know what was going on inside that room. i would have to agree with you. we wanted to know the real story.
obviously they kept trying to pretrade a joyful campaign and we cap seen signs that it was not such a joyful campaign. so john and i made it a mission to get the real story from people. initially people were like it's great, it's going well. and slowly we started hearing the real story. we were interviewing one source in the brooklyn headquarters because the stories about the people in the brooklyn headquarters mostly. a source told us at the tail end of the interview, yes, there was one moment right after risk good, she was really mad but i cannot really tell you more. you will have to talk to the people who were in the room for that. i was so angry is like, come on, tell us more about what happened. and he said no, talk to other people in the room. i got him to tell us who is in the room and he gave us these names.
we try to make it a mission in every interview after that to find out what exactly went down in that moment. finally, we circled back a month later. >> nine months later, separately we could have had children in that time. [laughter] i love you honey. >> finally, this one source said, on, we want to know what happened and we have bits and pieces of what happened. this is postelection the, no it was before election. >> no, postelection. this was like pre-inauguration but i think it might have been after christmas. >> finally the source tells us what happens. basically resulted in us finding out that she was frustrated by what had happened in michigan during the primary. she was angry at her aides and telling them our message is not
resonating, what is happening here. these are the moments that make this book what it is. a real book about what happened told through the people, not through outsiders, told to the people inside the campaign. i think that kind of moment shines in this book. this is what we aim to do. >> your turn, truth or dare. >> i want to know what you think the hardest part of reporting out this book was? >> i think getting people in clinton's orbit to talk about anything was impossible. if i was to chalk chalk up what my proudest accomplishments were is breaking into the circle and getting people to tell us stuff. especially in this campaign a group that was not leaking a lot not talking a lot very afraid of the repercussions of having
leaks come back on them and something that we write about here is that hillary clinton is obsessed on 2008 without having leaks. she believed the leaks from her campaign had hurt her in 2008 rather than seeing them as symptoms of dysfunction or feel like their grievances were not being aired effectively. she looked at the leak says something that was plaguing her campaign one of the reason she lost. a lot of these people thought they were gonna be working in the administration. and in the white house. there is a lot of incentive not to bring problems not to air problems externally or internally. so i think the hardest part was getting people to talk. he was really unlocking people person by person in detail by detail going back to the same people i matching what someone
said in april with what they said in april and december. the whole process was a reminder of the thing that reporters know in their hearts which is that if you want to get something good you have to work at it. i am proud we are able to bring to light so many things that people didn't know. you can agree or disagree with conclusions and i don't think the analysis was right, but at the end of the day there is a ten of new reporting in this. i'm proud of that was hard work for us. i know my family sacrifice word and your family sacrifice for it. i want to know from you what your biggest fear is now that it is out? because, we have been sitting on this a finished product for a few weeks waiting for it to come
out. just to redo it to the experience of the author i think we can say this, we heard there is likely to be a review on friday. it came out before we expected it to and it was very good. for weeks to sit around with a finished product that nobody has read or you don't know if anybody's going to like it or if it is going to sell. it was just as hard to write no matter if they go well or poorly. but now that it is out and people get to look at this finished product what is your fear. >> so many fears. i want people to understand that we have gotten feedback on twitter another social media that we are biased reporters are we would into this trying, we shoot from the hip.
we wrote what some people thought was a largely sympathetic book the first time around. this one is basically what we saw on heard from everyone in the campaign. my big fear is that this will be misinterpreted. as explained in the introduction we actually went about reporting this, we thought obviously she was going to win. our reporting change. it didn't change but the direction did not even change his we had seen signs of problems all throughout the campaign. what happened was she lost, we had to quickly come to interview and form conclusions about what happened and do that right after the election in january. that's a quick turnaround.
i want people to understand that process without judging how we did this and whether or not we're taking sides and who we voted for and a disclaimer i don't vote even. because i feel like my reporting is my public service and i don't take sides. so i want people to judge this fairly and read it before they judge it. >> before the election happened we had picked up on a lot of problems in the campaign and some of the misery in the campaign. we picked up on hillary clinton not feeling like she had a handle on the electorates on her same i don't understand what's happening with the country right now. i don't get it which we saw was a problem in terms of in the democratic primary and general election regardless of the popular votes the certainly she
would've liked to have gotten a larger share in the right state. there is something that sanders was tapping into that she had trouble understanding. part of it was her general believe in systems and breaking down the system to make change. we saw all of this going on for months and months in the dysfunction of the campaign. it was weird because we saw the polls and she's going to win because the polling not only said she was going to win but there seem to be a good pad there. i hope i'm not talking out of school too much. they said this book makes it sounds like she is going to lo lose.
i'm having trouble understanding because it looks like she is going to win. you guys think she's going to in but yet this book feels like she's going to lose. and were like yeah, that's a problem. were going to have to figure that out. look where were reporters. this is what's going on in these might be forward projections. and then on election day she lost and we had seen all of the signs. obviously was close enough the election could have gone either way. any number of things could have ticket one way or the other. we had seen the signs and a necessarily, we trust our gut in terms of doing the reporting. that's the reason we're able to produce this fairly quickly after the election because we did not have to pull up a lot of roots or reformulated
assumptions because we laid out with reporting was. >> let's do a more quick question. >> what is your favorite quote from the book? >> that's rough. that someone else said? >> or something that is so awesome? i'm sorry you still mine. >> not only am i sorry and i apologize for taking this time, the longer quotas mr. president, i'm sorry. >> i would have to agree. >> i can give you another one if you want. >> sorry. like abbott and costello are dumb and dumber appear.
anyway, will open it up to questions because we want to hear from you. >> i have a q&a microphone. >> i would like to know if you have any theories as to why former vice president biden didn't run and secondly, i'd like to know how much influence do you feel president obama had as far as who could challenge hillary clinton if the candidate would've had a fair chance. lastly, why do you think president obama didn't pardon hillary clinton and that could made a difference? >> i will take the first question. >> so for biden let's go there first. we had a few sources about why he didn't run, is bad timing for him. he needed to make a decision
quickly, his son has died tragically a few months earlier. he wanted to make a decision over the summer and the clock was ticking. his owners cap calling and wondering what was taking so long. it is feeling the weight of the moment. and finally fall crept in and he realized he had to make a decision. meanwhile secretary clinton was boxing him and in doing things that did not allow him to do it he needed to do. she's already taken many of the donors, time had run out. he was unhappy about it. he confided to advisors and donors that she was playing ugly. >> that is a favorite quote. >> it is actually one of mine. >> he wasn't happy with it.
they have a cordial relationship but he was really angry at her in the moment for doing what she did and keeping him out. especially when he needed time to breathe and make a decision. especially now he's not really net out. if you hear him in interviews he's leaving the door open. i think he wants to run again. i think you wanted to run them but the timing was bad and the actual decision-making was not in his favor. >> in terms of the pardon can he skip to that? in terms of president obama he wanted to remain neutral but i think everybody knew he preferred secretary clinton which prevented other candidates for getting in because why would you run against the sitting presidents candidate who has all
these superdelegates lined up. when people talk about the skill as a candidate one was skill in the field. there were a lot of other democrats who may have run for president who did not the democratic benches then right now. in part because not a lot of candidates running for president. as far as the pardon goes, no reason to pardon her. they would not recommend a prosecution, they said a lot of other things, but they were not recommend that. donald trump is not going to attempt to imprison his excessive matter how much someone dislikes what he does or comparison to dictators. i don't think were close to that right now. there is no issue to issue a pardon. had they done so it would've been a stain on clinton and the
president. >> what about the decision mrs. clinton and her advisers to leave -- any consideration to the fact that there be potential backlash of being a cover-up of some sort? >> this is a question case people do not hear why she would delete the personal e-mails, those deemed personal from her server. there is a backlash in terms of people said she was trying to hide something, the personal e-mails belong to her if they are in fact a personal nature. and if there is a process where her lawyers and top aides look
through these e-mails and determine what was working and was personal. having looked at her working in seen all the information classified on the private server it seems clear they did us at around say this could be a problem, let's just leave it. of that done it we would've seen the classified information. they may have made a bad decision and judgment and i think it was a poor decision to set up that private server and one motivated by the desire to not have her files out there in the open under the freedom of information request. that worked out well for her, as you know. in terms of the e-mail that don't belong to her or anybody else. >> given what you know now
through your reporting if you had to pick one would you say the clinton campaign lost the trump campaign one? >> both. >> i think it is complicated. we been getting that question a lot the last two days. as john and i report in this book and we do so conclusively it wasn't just russia or comey. it was a combination of factors. the same for everyone here that was the definitive factor, i'm not saying it wasn't it was a contributor for sure. but there were other factors including the fact that she didn't have a message from the beginning of her campaign. we detail in the book during her speech she had more than a dozen advisors working with her to write this thing.
none of them really understood the center of gravity for this message. they did not understand where it was going. she brought in a chief speechwriter to write it. he threw his hands up for the process was over and said i can't do this anymore. so message was a huge problem for her. there is infighting at the top levels of the campaign. her ter top advisers did not rey care for each other very much. we detail this in the boo theres one passage we have in the book where they are at a senior retreat for senior members of the campaign and are telling each other how they feel and are using words like passive-aggressive. hillary clinton stopped talking to some of her top advisers and
robbie during the primary. these are all problems swept under the rug, not fully addressed. she wanted people to think it was a drama free campaign based on 2008 in the headlines that came out that there was a lot of infighting. they did a good job keeping it under wraps. it was a problem for her. there is an image problem, likability problem, people didn't trust her. when we talk to people now, we talk to someone tonight that said i supported her but unwillingly. i think that spoke for a lot of people. i think a lot of people acknowledge that. >> have a competitor for one of the best quotes. that is one of her top aides said i would have had a reason
for running or i would not have run. and the argument was essentially even her aides to not know what the rationale was. they were unable to look at what she was saying and saying here's her vision for the country rather than her cut vision for power. she had been running for president for ten years, at least. i think an honest assessment is that it was easy to see what donald trump's message was. whether you like it or not. whether he was being honest at the moment or not. he had a nationalistic message and an anti-immigrant message. they're basically a few things that he wanted to do with his power. with her there is an abrasive so many things. some of them said to us, if you're for everything you're not for anything. it was a harder message to carry because it wasn't focused after all of these years.
>> someone told john and i there is a wall in her brooklyn headquarters that have little post-it notes that it said, hillary's for in the wall was covered with various ideas. one of our sources pointed to that wall and said basically what john just said, if you're for everything, you're not for anything. >> you talk about brooklyn, podesta and trump had kellyanne conway, late in the game and ran circles around. who was making decisions in brooklyn and saying go to arizona the wiki for the election, who? who is making decisions for the campaign. >> the first answer is, your guess is as good as mine -- no,
this was a problem a lot of the junior mid-level staffers were unable to get decisions rendered. sometimes they're trying to get something signed off and they could not get it because people weren't talking at the top level. if you want to look at what the basic debate was that mattered in terms of the strategy and field operations and data analytics and the mechanics of campaigning, look the campaign data. including president clinton who believed hillary should be out there persuading people who do not agree with her. the data said it was more extensive, less efficient to try to get people to disagree with her to vote for her then to get people to growth or to show up which is true.
you see the process particularly in the rust belt. now would -- no way to know what would happen if they had done things differently but the motif of this book there is was a big battle over the level of reliance on data versus, say, bill clinton from the field and saying these guys aren't buying our message. we need to spend more time with them and frame it this way. he'll come in and they'd say, that's quaint, you're great, mr. president. i want to send you to a city and touch more people who are more lyrically to turn out. >> he was angry about and it the former president's aides are angry and still are. he had a better feel for things than the data and analytics they were reporting back to him.
so i think to this day that's something that still kind of angers the people around him. >> hi. both of you referred in passing to james comey, and how significant do you think it was to the outcome of the election and the all right he sent to congress just before the election, and even though they kind of publicly downplayed it, what was the reaction to that inside of the campaign? >> there was a saying in the campaign, we can have nice things. every time michigan started to go well there was another shoe that drop. felt like there was a millipede running around dropping shoes, and we go through this sort of background of that. i don't want to tell the whole story here but basically there they were shocked what happened
and trying to fir out why the fbi director weighed in again and weighed in to say he was re-opening an investigation in the he was looking at a computer that belonged to umenyiora belonged to huma abedin. >> the press secretary traveling with her thought that when asked about it, thought that this reporter on the plane, who is asking about these new revelations, was joking. >> just being a jerk. you see the new thing from comey? really funny, dude. >> yeah. so, they never saw that coming. >> and in terms of how much of a factor it was in the election, it's impossible to know exactly. i would point out, though, that while director comey did a lot of unusual things, that is a euphemism -- what he did a lot of unusual things during the campaign, all of what he was
doing relates back to the i'm e-mail even server and if somebody thinks that was good decision on her part, both as how to buy as -- behave as a public official, please raise your hand. that is self-inflicted damage and it may be unfair and whatnot put we look at that as part of the major own goal, to borrow a sports phrase, of the e-mail server that came tolight before she announced the campaign. >> a question over here. >> thank you. i'm a journalist with the newspaper from norway. i have -- >> host: go norway. >> i agree. >> i have norwegian relatives. >> politic are much more interesting here. i have a question about your access to the candidate herself? to what extent did you feel that
her staff was being guided in one way or another when it dame came to talking to you? obviously you knew many of these people from before, from your other book, and must have known you were writing this book and had a strategy in place to guide you in the direction they wanted you to go. >> so, that's a very complicated question. we don't talk about our sourcing at all. it's something we did on hrc, and not doing it for shatters. but you can rest assured we have talked to everyone from the highest levels on down. this is a very inside the campaign kind of book. if you want to know what outers are thinking, this is not the book for you. >> i thought you would say we don't talk to the press. >> the second part of your question is complicated because as john mentioned earlier, there
they're a tough nut to crack, clinton world. we did this two times. both times we felt -- correct me if i'm wrong the second time was perhaps harder because she was running a campaign and they were worried what we would put out. we also had day jobs we were doing at the same time, and i wasn't as easy at is might sound. because we did hrc doesn't mean the floodgates suddenly opened. quite the opposite. we had to work really hard. we almost had to kind of reintroduce yourselves to clinton world in some sense itch used to joke with john, they act like they don't know us and we have been working with these people now for years. >> one nice thing about the leaked e-mails from the staffers we were able to see somebody being told not to talk to us because they didn't -- because
presumably -- there wasn't a wholly reason, just like you don't have to talk to them. >> people who had spoken to us before. >> were given red-lights, don't talk to them. i would say there's a mix of that, and over time that seemed to ease. some peeked talked to us and some didn't. some people asked for permission and got it. some people at any time ask permission and talked to us anyway. >> john and i often joke we want to write our next book on someone who is easier more accessible because -- this world is not that. >> like, queen elizabeth or something. [inaudible question] >> i'm a journalist from new york, and you guys are terrific on channel 5 this morning. >> thank you, sir. >> so -- >> aren't you that -- >> aren't you greg keller. >> right, from fox.
i'm bat third of the way into the book and so far hillary is indecisive. very bad judgment. not good for poll -- politics and doesn't really stand for anything. forgetting who the president is now, did you have anything that would tell you she would be a good president? >> i think -- someone else is applauding. is that what you wanted to, and too? [inaudible question] >> -- the blacks and working class and the -- i mean, -- [inaudible] >> the one thing that we learned from hrc, our first book, was that she actually -- she is a policy wonk. this her thing. she knows how to govern more than she knows how to be a
candidate, i think. she is not the best candidate. she actually admitted this several times during the campaign. she is not bill. has said she is not president obama, either. not even george w. bush, who people say is quite charming. >> amy works hard, says really smart things and i cut in with a few jokes. everybody smiles and laughs and then we get to go home and they forget how hard she worked and put stuff in. i sort of feel for her on that level. when people talk about sex simple and misogyny, i think societally we still have a lot of that, and that she is sometimes judged unfairly, however your job as a candidate is to wind over -- to win over people no matter they're biases. i didn't mean to -- well, did mean to cut you off but thought it was valid opinion.
>> she is a terrible candidate. doesn't know how to manage a campaign well itch do -- well. i think she is very well versed in policy. we saw that in the debates. inarguably she won all three, and i think that she would be good in that sort of way. i think she would have a management problem for sure if she was in the white house. [inaudible question] >> somebody talked about comey. since 1991, comey was the one who led the whitewater investigation against bill clinton, and there have been a $91 billion industry against the clintons, specifically russia started this untrustworthy clinton campaign. so, i think -- what do you think? bus i think the press also contributed to that, since they
were hardly ever asking -- who is the president -- >> donald trump. >> thank you. >> did you just not want to say the words? >> it's still very painful. i'm recovering. never asked him about his service? whatever he said just fell off like water off a duck back. nothing mattered and the grilled her left, right and center. the benghazi was a phony thing, and gowdy himself was using a private server. all these factors you mentioned also do contribute but i think there was a very concerted, very concerted effort where in the last ten days, when comey went and put his thumb on the scales by bringing up this phony e-mail thing, when he knew this russiagate investigation, very serious level, was the top spies, was connections to these people was going on.
my question is, didn't all these questions -- all these factors contribute towards her being very cagey and mismanaging and not having a specific message? bus i think in the end, her policies were not very well-reported by the press. >> her policies were easy to find. i'd be hesitant to look at a campaign and say, wow, there's a campaign against her and it was unfair there was a campaign against her. when you talk about -- we haven't talked about this before but talk about russia. here's an example of she we now. we knew the russiases has been trying to tamper with our elections and were behind the dnc hacks and good reason to suspect they were involved in the podesta hacks and hillary clinton made the case publicly,
in debates, she said to trump he was a puppet of putin. she talked about the intelligence community, the 17 agencies that came in and said that russia was responsible for hacks. and the country elected donald trump anyway. it's not as though we had no idea what was going on here, and if pea didn't pay attention when day were vote and are angry now because they weren't paying attention, that would be one thing. don't think that's the case. think that was baked into the decisions people were making. a fifth of donald trump's voters said they thought he wasn't photo be president of the united states and voted for him anyway. that says to me even though this was a very close race and one that could have changed on just a little bit, it says to me that hillary clinton failed to win by a large margin that she could have. there were voters certainly available to her, if a fifth of his voters thought he wasn't