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tv   Axios Discussion on Bipartisanship  CSPAN  October 26, 2017 8:02am-9:30am EDT

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[inaudible conversations] >> we are once again waited for the start of this conversation of the potential for bipartisan solutions to the the nation's s that we will hear from nbc news correspondent kasie hunt, representative carlos curbelo and josh got a timer, also west virginia senator joe manchin. this is hosted by axios. >> please join the conversation by using hash dog axios 360 on
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social media, now please welcome our host mike allen. >> good morning. [applause] >> good morning. thank you very much for your early morning to all of you who are here and welcome our remote audience. welcome our friends from c-span. thank you very much for joining us. thank the hewlett foundation for making this possible bring some california vibe from my native state on the socal but we are very happy to have them here and for those of you for joining us electronically, the axios event team has pulled off a bipartisan breakfast. there's not a lot of meals in d.c. that a bipartisan, but we have french toast roles that have cream cheese with raspberry dipping sauce. summoned with sony i should call it freedom toast. take your pick whether it is french toast for freedom toast. the overnight oats are layered
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with strawberries and blueberries, just like i make at home. also red and blue. that's the bipartisan breakfast, and we appreciate those here who made it possible. so a few, hop on, our mobile site the axios stream come every story, we call it smart brevity. the big idea of axios is to make people smarter faster but most important topics of the time so you can make better decisions. our events are a manifestation of that. so today with a fantastic conversation about both what's practical and what we should be shooting for among the party wars in d.c. with a bunch of front-line players were going to take us behind the scenes of that. i'm going to set the stage with a colleague from axios who has been such a great part of our first nine months, who worked on
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the business side of cnn, susie, politico and the "new york times" can work on the editorial side of cnn and the "washington post." a very and use perspective, 3600 perspective on media trends, has a newsletter. love to welcome my colleague, our media trends subject matter expert sarah fisher. >> good morning. >> thank you very much. with any big story on axios you'll find out right away why it matters. today were doing why it matters. you pop up a perfect post. you look at how democrats and republicans in congress communicate differently. >> totally differently. so pew research did a study last year with a took a look of the social social media post of members of congress, at all the press releases members of congress put out and they found one key difference which is republicans tend to go to social
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media first when you want to communicate with their constituencies, typically. democrats will go to a press release. i called someone last night who is a veteran hill member, democratic unification staffer and she said one of the things you here on capitol hill all the time which am sure many of you know is democrats will go for policy first. republicans will go for message first. it's a totally different way of communicating between the two parties on capitol hill. >> what would they tell you about why? >> they would tell you at least republicans would tell you crafting a message and try to community with someone through a medium is an important part of explaining a policy. if you you can't communicate in the right way the message itself would be lost. democrats would tell you they're so concerned with explaining the rationale that they want to focus and hone in on the policy and have delivered that message as an afterthought.
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though i will say as i talked to folks on capital this seems to be switching. a lot of members, i think about representative dingell, people are taking to social meet and breaking through, these are new changes and it doesn't assume mean the dynamic will be that way forever but that's the newfound for 2016. >> sarah fisher in addition to her weekly media trends newsletters, a super popular speaker on changes in the consumption and dissemination of media. my nephew who you met just graduate from chapel hill, 22, how was the way that he gets information from about his sender or his member different from probably the way sanded a a member is disseminating information? >> totally different. first of all that senator or member is going to take to every single outlet possible. we'll put out a judicial press release. they might do a town hall. phil put things on social media.
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they let one-on-one groups with lobbying members on capitol hill. but evan might only get one tweet picky only getting briefed by his member probably through social media and probably just from one wife which is why members have to so many different communications that is because you don't know where your constituent is and when. this is something that's different, like just of years ago even members put out a press release and that was it. it's totally different and that's what you are seeing so many folks that only beating up staff but social media staff. >> you've had a number of scoops about the power of snapchat. what can washington, that can include all sides, , advocacy groups, senators, members, media, organizations, include foundations, what can washington and public policy communicators learn and what should we know about snapchat? >> snapchat is a visual and power medium.
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if you follow along you notice they are constantly calling and rebranding itself a camera company. they want to make sure every message that is put out is a big, beautiful bright picture or video. that's different for folks on capitol hill for so long -- >> but that is how we see the world. >> actually have received the world. snapchat is tapping into that. twitter front-line done didn't allow you to attach pictures without it going against your character count. snapchat has pioneered this visual medium in a way members on capitol hill should be looking into and taking advantage of. >> you studied political communication at george washington university. how is political communication changed even since you who are editor, the youth, even since you graduated has changed? >> i think the biggest change is that people on capitol hill and then their surrounding power brokers are really engage in social media. in fact, before president trump,
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president obama use social media. media. he was called the first social media president but he wasn't prolific about. he wasn't on every single day. now when we talk to some of our advertising partners, will you talk to some of our forces on hill and in washington they will tell you you have to engage with capital members unsocial. that something that's different and is told ramped up in the past nine months especially since the president has taken it would on an almost daily basis. >> does the president tweet? and people can tell right away whether the official or the fact, right? >> i think they can tell. one thing you will see with so many psychological studies about younger kids is that they crave authenticity. they want to be spoken to in a way the friends can speak to depict this is why youtube stars can if you look at who are the top people in youtube, most are people i've never heard of. they are young up and comers who to speak directly to the camera.
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i think that's a huge difference in communication style is you could tell when he member is just quoting a link and said i voted for x, y and z versus when a member comes back with a quick and something sure. it's either going to be one of their communications staffers and some of the consulted with. >> as our ceo would say, blow my mind. what something coming up, don't give away the story but what something coming up in media trends what something we should be watching about how public policy communication could affect what gets done or gets thwarted in washington? >> i would say the agency dynamic is the totally upended in washington. for most people who need to communicate will bring on an agency to help them do it whether it's a pr firm or some sort of digital firm. and for salon selling people rn these big names like edelman or oracle be an they're still such an important player in the ecosystem but now the smaller
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number groups who have different expertise and political communication and campaign communications are starting to pop up and be leveraged by some of the biggest companies. a lot of those agencies are in d.c. it's a great opportunity for our city, a great opportunity for ex-political staffers are trying to get into the agency world. that's one thing i have my eye on is how d.c. is changing the agency work. >> as we say goodbye, is media helping or hurting polarization in d.c.? >> you can look at either way. i would say media always find transparent to come usually transmission things people should know about and so it's helping. >> sarah fisher, and people always ask if, in fact, i the fun fact about you. how many email contacts do you have? >> i have a lot of e-mail contacts. they are not all of my contacts list. many of them are in excel spreadsheet. >> but he could to add them al? >> i would say tens of thousand
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thousands. >> thank you for the great coverage. appreciate you. >> thank you. >> thank you very much, sarah fisher. welcome our c-span viewers and those of you for joining us online, please join the conversation with hashtag axios360. we think the hewlett foundation for making this event possible and now it's my honor to welcome to our stage republican from florida congressman congressman talking backstage a lot but these big issues of what's possible in washington, how to make progress across the aisle from south florida congressman carlos curbelo. congressman, thank you what back. [applause] >> glad to be here. appreciate it. >> as we were backstage you said you had a formative experience involving sports that was the best possible preparation for being on capitol hill. >> refereeing high school basketball. and, of course, the parents were always the worst.
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the kids were okay, but don't a lot of character. it taught me that you are sent to try to make the right call. you are going to get heckled from both sides. if you do a really good job, no one will say anything to you. you just walk quietly out of the gym. that's kind of what politics is like. one of the big problems is the referees won the game to be all about them these days. it's not about us. it should be about the american people like it's about the players. i learned a lot from refereeing high school basketball. i recommend it. >> as some of those things you did sound familiar, you are 37 so you are an official millennials. >> thank you. some people put me as a young gen x or, some an old millennials. i'm kind of in between, like bipartisanship i guess. [laughing] >> you have been reaching out not only across the aisle but also across generations.
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what is it like to be youngish on capitol hill? >> i think we bring a different perspective. i think we are a little more sober about politics. i find that people in my generation in both parties are less into some of the role-playing that i think many in washington have become accustomed to. so i think in people, especially people younger than me, i would think that is going to take new generations in the united states in order to have the political renaissance that it think we sorely, desperately need in this country, bring a more sober, thoughtful, conciliatory approach towards politics. >> sober, thoughtful, conciliatory, sort of three strikes towards the current congress. of those what would be, what
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would you be most hopeful about actually making a change? >> so i think there's some issues out there that just cry out for obvious solutions. we've been debating immigration in this country, first dream act was filed in 2001. we're still talk about dreamers in 2017 having to nothing. broader immigration reform was introduced by president bush inn 2005, 2006. nothing is happened. the solutions at least to me are fairly obvious, and one of the things i'm optimistic about this time, especially the end of the year, is that we may have the first meaningful, significant immigration compromise since the legislation 1998. >> this of the extending the daca protections, dream effects, speaker ryan is that that will be part of the budget bill at the end of the year, right? >> that our hope. obviously that would be
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accompanied by some reasonable border security measures. i think most americans agree that we have a right and a duty and responsibility to control our border. a lot of drug activity at the board and most americans want to stop that. so now we start talking about a wall i think that's what people started to get divided. but i don't think anyone actually believes we're going to build a 2000-mile wall, but we should do everything we can to have reasonable, sensible border security. >> don't tell the president. what is your sense of how much what he says is for affect and how much of it, for instance, with the wall, what do you think he actually either would settle for a recognize he will probably ultimately deliver? >> i think, and i don't know him well, , i've only interact withn a couple of times, but i think, and you look back at his life and his career in business come he's a very pragmatic person. i really think he will take
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almost any reasonable compromise. so i don't pay too much attention -- i tell people i'm not obsessed with the president. there are people both for him and he gives them that are obsessed with him. their day recalls are and what the president says and does. i just can't do that. i don't think that's healthy about anyone. by the way i think wife and kids. i think about them all day but my whole day doesn't revolve around the either. that's just not healthy. i don't let myself be defined by this president just like it didn't let myself be defined by the last president. when back to referent people asking me all the time, how do you deal with donald trump? the same way i dealt with the barack obama when i agree i'm supportive and i will get beyond their ideas. i think -- everything to ideas about then i will oppose them. i think that's what every member of congress should do. this is not about, my party,
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degree of attempt of if not have to oppose them everything. this is about the balance of power and i think that's our constitutional duty to work with the executive when we think they're working on something that is worthwhile and to oppose and when they are not. >> during our bipartisan breakfast we talked about the difference between what's practical as far as partisan action or just action, and what's aspirational. could you talk about how you see the difference between what you think we should shoot for what you think is realistic? >> well, bipartisanship is not an end. it's a means to achieving a good lasting policy. i am part of the problem solvers caucus and you will have josh gottheimer here in a few minutes, and we work very closely together. but this dialogue that we are
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having, it's all wonderful. it's important because you can have results without good relationships and sober conversations, but that's not the end. the end is to have good policy. that's why we're hoping to play a role in an immigration compromise. obviously there has to be a spending compromise. that will happen at the leadership level. tax reform, there may be room,, there should be room for bipartisanship there. so the idea is that i think our framers obviously given the way they develop the constitution, the ideas for people to come together, have rigorous debate and then settle on something when we can all agree, no internet everyone is going to get everything they want. so i think that once we have a couple major bipartisan wins, congress can be conditioned in this kind of behavior and we can
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kind of crowd out the forces that always try to prevent that type of compromise either for political gain or for financial gain, a lot of groups out there that like to get people riled up, divide the country and make a profit. >> who are you talk about when you say make a profit? >> well -- >> who is trying to divide the country for profit? >> is a lot of interest groups out there on both sides and a business model is we're going to make a lot of people angry, paranoid, scared and will ask them for contributions, sent ten dollars today to help me stop acts from destroying your life, and since a lot of anxiety and economic and insecurity intercountry, people are susceptible to that. that's what i think my view, taxi from is one of the biggest things we can do for this country. because greater growth is going to make people feel better, make people more confident, they would be less prone to stick
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scapegoating fellow americans are blaming trade deals for some of our challenges in this country and people just going to feel like, like they can thrive. >> what are the chances of getting democratic votes in the house for tax reform? >> i think they are pretty good. a lot of our democratic colleagues are fixated on this 1%, the top 1%, which i understand we want a fair tax system. but i also understand, it's a statistical fact with one of the most progressive taxes and in the world. the wealthy pay a lot to fund all of our government programs. so again i don't obsess with 1%% of the 2% for the 10%. i think we should have tax relief for all americans, but the republicans are going to put in a fourth bracket. there's a good chance that it's 39.6% bracket that exists today and i think if we do that, that's going to help a lot of our democratic colleagues
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consider supporting tax reform package that lowers the tax burden on at least most americans, and leads to greater growth spurt you're a republican in south florida. depending on the issue that can be enemy territory. how have you navigated that? >> by being a good referee. look, people in my district, for example, on a lot of foreign-policy issues are more conservative leaning they believe in a hawkish activist, american foreign-policy on issues like education, strong supporters of public education. i came from a school board. i am, too. so in every district i really try to do what's best for my district. that's why sometimes i'm in agreement with our leaders in the house on the republican side and sometimes i'm not. >> when you were not do they get it or do they punish you? >> know, yeah. people talk about think on the democratic side, this might be more of the case, but on the
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republican side is almost not enough accountability. i think we have the opposite problem where every member is really kind of expected to act as an independent contractor for the district. and you know that's cause some challenges. because we have struggled at times to get our majority to pass certain bills. >> can you see your generation providing stronger leadership? >> i think that our leadership is a product of our conference. i don't think our leaders are weak. i think our leaders lead a very diverse group of people who are very strong-minded about the ideas. some of who are not prone to compromise pics i do think that as younger members come in and i see this in a conference, and a think in the democratic caucus as well, it will be easier for our leaders to be effective because, again, we just bring a
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different approach, attitude, tone, demeanor to the world. >> backstage you tried the overnight oats. how with a? >> they were very good. >> overnight oats. were talking about two factors that are most important in working cross the aisle. i thought these were very faceting. you said your two factors were first you said personal discipline. >> yeah, you have to really fight the instinct to fall into the roles. i mean, everyone knows what the roles are here, , right? if you're a republican you have to kind of ignored, for example, an issue like climate change. now, i don't do that. number one, because i understand the site. number two i represent a district where most people live near sea level and near the sea. it's a local issue for us. but that's the key.
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just don't fall, it's easy, it's expected of you to fall into these buckets, , these roles coe into these silos. you really have to fight that. and on every issue say, well, what's the right thing to do? what makes sense? so yes, it requires discipline in that sense where you have to fight the inertia that is so strong in our politics. >> your second one, , you have a counter intuitive take on risk-taking. >> yeah, so a lot of people, especially i think people who cover politics view bipartisan conduct or compromise as something that's done by those who are seeking political cover or who are trying to play it safe. it is the opposite in most cases today in our country. artisan ship is what's expected of you. -- partisanship. it's what republicans and democrats to get republican members of congress support the
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republican president. democratic members of congress oppose the republican president. that is what your expected to do. i think to try to break that is actually takes more effort. i'd want to say people use the word courage. i don't think anything we do here on the hill is courageous. people are out fighting for our country, they are courageous. but it certainly takes effort. it takes introspection and self reflection to break those habits and say no, i'm actually going to work with someone who i'm told i'm not supposed to work with because it's the right thing to do and because i think we can come up with a good idea. >> you are cochair of the congressional caucus focus on millennials. what is the biggest scoop that you have -- coop -- changing the tone are you doing some of your own things to make things worse up there?
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>> well, i really don't think we're doing anything to make things worse. i think millennials have to stop waiting our turn and we have to start making demands of our leaders in the house on both sides. by the way there's a lot of wonderful millennials younger democrats who are challenging their leaders. we need to do the same thing and we needed to people we want to do this carefully. we want to help restore the trust and confidence in this government. we want people in a generation who by the way don't care for the government at all ask any millennial they think so scared a medicare if they think will be around for them. they will laugh. they just don't trust our institutions. we want to make our generation believe, and in order to do that we need to change how this government works or how it doesn't work. that's the approach i bring to this work, and i encourage all millennials, don't sit back and complain.
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it's easy to tweet or to send a message over social media and then go back to doing whatever you are doing. get involved. get involved, vote but also communicate directly with your representatives and let them know that you want things to change for the better. >> and as we get the hook here, one of the purposes of your job, you met pete many in person at what was at like. >> was growing up in miami i was a big dan marino fan. dan marino was the end-all be-all when i was a kid and then when he retired i was so kind of young, and i really felt than marinos retirement. i saw peyton manning and aye wow, that's like a new version of dan marino. so i adopted peyton many. i went to a peyton manning game almost every year of his career. and i think he's just a standup guy, and hopefully he will run for office one day because you look at the way back i conducts himself and we always tries to bring people together, i think
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that's exactly what we need. >> congressman carlos curbelo, thank you for joining us. appreciate you. >> my pleasure. >> thank you very much. thank you, congressman. now we will see a quick video from hewlett foundation. >> there have been enormous shifts in the political game. >> our political system is broken. >> our country is far too divided. ..
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>> the bridge the partisan divi divide. we help inspire members of congress that drove them to public service in the first place and to reach across divides to bridge those gaps and work together for a better democracy. i believe that a whole generation of young people will want to get more involved in politics and that's what it's all about, if we can do that, we can shift from cynicism to apartment mechanism. we believe if over 10,000 servant leaders got involved in our political eco systems that is a movement that could transform our democracy. what we know we have to revive
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civility and respect not just among we leaders, but amongst the people. >> thank you very much to the foundation. and now our next guest lives the dream of a lot of people in washington, probably some of the people in this room, certainly some of the people in our audience and that is he came to work in washington, was one of the youngest white house speech writers in history and then came back to get elected and become a congressman from his native new jersey after summers on the jersey shore and his official bio points out his first bruce springsteen concert was at brendenberg arena in the meadow lands. we're honored to welcome congressman gottheimer. thank you for being here. [applause]
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>> you're the co-chair of the problem solving caucus. how is that going for you? >> it's going okay. >> oh, come on! >> we're up to 23 democrats and 23 republicans in the caucus. and we get together every single week we're in washington and people like carlos, who, by the way, you know, we're both in the big and tall caucus so we've a lot going, also, but he did not show up-- should have given him grief, we have a bipartisan workout in the morning and he did not show up this morning and mike, he blamed you. >> fair enough. so, we now know what a bipartisan breakfast is, what is a bipartisan workout. >> half democrats and half republicans, we work out and do cross fit run by a guy named mark wayne mullen from oklahoma. he was an mma fighter so these are tough workouts. >> what is the difference between the workout style or endurance of democrats or
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robls? >> a good question, i haven't gotten that one. the workouts, we're both tough. you know, we-- the democrats, we bring them and feel badly when the republicans are having a tough time. but you know, the caucus, really, we-- to answer your question earlier, our caucus is the only bipartisan frame work on health care so far so this summer we got together after the john mccain voted no late night and we have been working for weeks, a group of 40 of us, around the clock trying to get to a yes proposal on a piece of health care to give the csr payments done, to make sure that we could get premiums down. and we have been talking to a
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bipartisan governors and i think there's an opportunity-- i don't think the story is over yet on saving this piece of health care and trying to get premiums down. >> is it over for this year? >> no, we keep rolling everything into december and i think this could be part of a grand bargain. there's plenty of conversation going on. you see that alexander murray from the senate keeps coming back up in conversation. we're working with them. i think the congressional budget office yesterday scored it and actually said it would be a gain for the country and help bring the deficit down, so, you know, i'm actually optimistic that that's an area where we can get something done. we have to, we can't let these-- we can't throw all of these people on health care and have premiums go up 20 or more percent in the next year. >> so i'm thinking something in particular, you were listing one. you said curbelo, what's the least truthful thing he said.
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>> i'm not answering that one. >> what's the likelihood that house democrats will vote for tax cuts? >> i think there's a real opportunity for some of us to-- want to get there. the question is, for me, and for many people, you know, the big regional breakdown. for those of us in states where we have higher property taxes and higher state taxes, at the state level tax, eliminating the state level tax deduction, that means that taxes go up. >> there was a meeting last night. >> they had meeting with republicans last night and that's my understanding and-- >> ladies and gentlemen, please take your --. >> we've got our seats, go ahead. . >> thank you. >> i was expecting some grand entrance of somebody, who is out there? [laughter] >> there's a real-- you've got people like peter king and others, and in new
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jersey, you have several members, including leonard lance, a republican in our delegation and leonard and i are going to do an event later, a lot of states, including ours, pay in much more federal taxes than we give back to our states, we're at a competitive disadvantage. we get 33 cent for every dollar, and some get 4 for over dollar they send in. it's a regional issue and-- >> the intel on the where the majority is heading. what is the likelihood you could vote for taxes. >> if they get rid of the state taxes then-- >> if they fix it, none of us, you may have, mike, you have access to everything, none of us have actually seen the plan.
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you know, the democrats, we haven't seen the full details so it's really hard to answer the question until you see the details and then we should have the conversation next thursday. >> now, one of your traditions back home in new jersey is joe with josh, right? >> cup of joe with josh. >> what are you learning from cup of joe with josh that washington should pay attention to? >> you know, jersey is all about diners, in new jersey, we go to town to town diner. and people want us to sit together. i hear this all the time, that even if people are on opposite sides, they want us to try. and find a way to yes instead of just screaming at each other. there are issues we're not going to get there on. but in our caucus, carlos and i talked about, we try to get together on tax reform, health care, hopefully on daca to find a way forward and that's--
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i don't care what people's party is, that's what i hear the most. >> congressman, herb jackson with the record is here today. herb give us a wave. >> hey, herb! >> we're chatting before and herb said that a problem for you back home is that you are well-known for working across the aisle and a bunch of the democrats who elected you actually don't like that. >> herb, have you been in the diners? listen, there's always going to be people, you know, in the far left and far right who are-- believe we should obstruct unless you get 100% of everything and i don't believe that's how you govern. i started my career working with president clinton and he said to move forward to yes. we've got roads, a third of the bridges in new jersey are
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considered unsafe. you've got to fix this. if you keep punting and insist of what you want every time, some people get upset about it, but governing is to yes. >> we've got a lot of young people in the audience and virtual audience. you had an informative experience involving senator lautenberg of new jersey and talking about practical and aspirational possibilities. this was kind of both. what kind of young person learned from that episode? >> i did not smoke on the airplane. senator lautenberg took on smoking on the airplanes and-- >> which is hard. for our guys, it's hard to believe it existed. >> they smoked on the airplane and it was in a section, but obviously in a capsule, smoking in the airplane and he took it on and it was considered impossible, one of those third rails, which given the lobbies on the other side and you know,
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it's one of those moments, you saw you can take on an issue and it's tough and you can overcome it. i had an enormous amount of respect for him, and he was not afraid of a fight. that will push you in the direction. >> and on capitol hill, what is the biggest pushback or resistance you've gotten to work with other younger members, to work with some republicans, to break out of the boxes that the parties seem to have retreated to? >> i would say, you know, given that this wasn't exactly a moment in history in the brochure when i ran, you know, what i've seen the most, during orientation, i'm sure that carlos could test this, too. you're all across the party lines and you go to kennedy school and they have all of these different training seminars on processing in congress and you get there the first day and reflectively
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people snap to their sides and unless you actually make the effort, you could just spend time with people from your own party. even though they caucus together-- in the house of representatives, people go to their respective sides and you actually have to make an effort to spend time together and believe me, when you go against the grain, you know, members of your party aren't thrilled with you and leadership isn't thrilled with you. i heard carlos say it's discipline. it's discipline and you also have to not be afraid to do what you think at the end of the day is best for your constituents, even if sometimes it's going to roughly some feathers. so, every time i walk on the house floor, i make an effort not just on my side, but always to the other side and talk to people about it. and by building relationships and building the relationships when you want to work on legislation in a bipartisan way, which i always do, you have people you've developed
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relationships with and trust. on our caucus, you can't-- part of the rules of the caucus, you can't campaign or write a check against anyone in the caucus, democrat or public. how do you actually get to compromise with somebody op a usual if they think you want to kill them. and we get 75% agreeing on our point of view and we block a vote together and it fights the extremes. and that's tough. you sometimes not only get what you want individual will you, but it's for the effort and i really see if you're disciplined, like carl side, if you do it every day and use those muscles, i think that's what we need more of in congress. >> in the state of the union, a buddy system, you were encouraged to bring someone of the op at this time party. do any of the cue cusses do
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that? >> our caucus, it's one and one, it's noah's art that that democrat and republican have to come in together. so, a lot of the caucuses have the system where you have to bring along a republican. >> you were early on the equifax issue. what did we learn when vice-president pence broke the tie? >> on equifax, we had hearings. >> real quick to bring our guests up to speed on the issue. >> sure. those of you who saw 150 million or so people whose data was breached from equifax which is one of the largest credit correct agencies. there's three big ones, and many of you probably received notices at home or went to a website and you could find out if your data was compromised, the problem was in many instances the computer systems were down and people didn't answer the phones. we personally, when we
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registered, your data was likely compromised, we're backlogged for weeks and i found that incredibly offensive because their people for instance, getting a home, getting a car and it's, getting an alan. so we brought ex-fax before the services committee, the second time we asked them to come up to the hill and say the ceo refused to come to testify which i find beyond offensive given how many people's credit was compromised. >> what's the take away? >> we've got an issue and we have to keep pressing this, and get legislation done on the house side so there has to be rules in place how to respond when you have a breach. >> aspirational versus practical. what is practical about what could happen, where you could get to the president's desk. >> on this? >> a clear code of conduct if there's a breach how you have to respond within a period of
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time. >> how much will for that on the other side. >> there's bipartisan will on this one. people are frustrated and their constituents are extremely angry about this. so, we hear about it all the time and i know a lot of republicans do, too. >> so as one of the younger members of congress, what are you going to do to get younger leaders for house democrats? >> i spend a lot of time on the phone talking to other members who are similarly situated to me position-wise, moderate, willing to work across the aisle and what happens, mike, as you might emergency, a lot of those seats tend to be suffer seats to pick up. so spending time and explains to them what it takes and how to get it done, but also what it's like when you're here. they sort of leave that out, also in the manual. they talk to you about the running, but actually what it's like to be here and that's why
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i spend a lot of people talking about it. >> and younger viewers what should i hear? >> this is a very big issue on our side. you want to make sure that we get younger people in and encourage them to run. there's an incredible amount of people running this cycle and i've met a breadth of energetic people. when they get here, it's not being frustrated after a term or two and i hear this from people who have been here. you want to make sure you're able move up in leadership and that's what we talk about in our caucus. >> congressman, you really know washington. and what's the biggest surprise, a perk or a chore of being an actual member? >> this is obviously the park here. and the biggest benefit is that it's-- i know, even though i've been here for a long time, walking
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onto the house floor as a member of congress and representing people. >> tell me about a surprise, what people want from you, what do people give you? >> the surprise is how little time you have to do every task. the amount of activities to lead the peaceful legislation. people don't realize if you don't get bills a month out, you get them the day before or a few days before or a week before. make sure to read it and often times you're walking on the floor and they've changed something and they hand it to you and you're in the back with your staff reading it fast and trying to make sure you don't go the wrong way. i find that to actually be shocking and how many i think so this you need to try to get done in a day. that's the schedule, it's crazy. to do the job right. you know, i think i really believe there's a way to do this yob and i want to do
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things, join the calf cuss and some call it extra credit. there's so much to get done. we as members want to dig if when we met on immigration reform, it's at 9:00 at night because everybody's schedule crazy from 9:00 and you work until 1:00 this the morning. we were in martin's office with white boards. i think that america would be very happy to see this, there were 20 of them crammed in the office with no staff, just members of congress with two white boards up, sitting on couches, debating, i think we were working on health care reform that night. debating what we could get to where and i thought, we should take pictures of this and send it out because if people saw this they'd feel better. i felt better given what you see on cable news and people screaming at each other. and we need more of this, i'm
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focused of more of that. >> was there pizza? >> there was tacos and beer. >> and those pictures-- >> that's why we can't take pictures. >> congressman, as we say goodbye, what are the chances in january 19 you're in the majority? >> i'll put it over 50% we're in the majority. >> congressman gottheimer, thank you for that. >> thank you, guys. >> thank you very much, congressman gottheimer. a quick one from the hewlett foundation and we'll be right back with the manager of nbc news. >> the american public sees a lot of dysfunction and partisanship in the united states congress. many factors that led to partnership. congress is important together and we're not working together as a nation. the congressman management
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foundation commission, effect with congress and try to work with congress a-offices to improve operations especially as relates to interacting with citizens and thaz r dz that citizens had better communication with congress. >> understanding there's something underneath that helps us understand how to address. and we commission political scientists to study between racial polarization and-- >> they offer a sin tentative to reach out and is there something that they have something they think is really important. i think we're moving in right direction. >> what goes into good legislation, one of the things we wanted to do is discuss the
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way it's originally intented to work as the founders, to try to improve understanding because improved understanding in the long run come better policy. >> voters want to see the progress, they want to see congress enact this. >> things get better over time and we have real work to do. >> thank you very much to the hewitt foundation for that message. our next guest, one of those best known bipartisan players in washington, any building, any branch of government. crew up in coal country of west virginia, learned politics fr from-- learned politics from papa joe and mama kay. it's an honor to welcome to axios senator joe manchin.
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>>. [applause] >> thank you so much. >> got it right, mike. >> what would papa kay say about what is going on in washington. >> papa joe. what's the difference between democrats and republicans? he said, not whole lot. you pull a pile of money on the table and they'll both spend it all, but the republicans will feel bad about it. [laughter] >> that's my political career, that started me off. >> and what did mama kay teach you about navigating? >> she's a one woman social phenomenon. back in those days in the 50's, you didn't have social nets, it was mama kay. so we had people -- we lived by the tracks. we lived in a fancy neighborhood, train on one side. she heard the train whistle and gathered everybody up.
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and it's a norman rockwell type setting. they were all about the family. she took in everybody, she made us kids whitewash the basement and anybody who had a place to stay. we had wheel barro willy and peggy. and they'd jump off the train and they had talent and they could paint and carpentry work and lose them. i'd come home from school. where did lloyd go to? where is peg leg peggy? >> they're on the toot again. >> the toot is when they get back on the battle and lose them for six weeks and she said they'll come back and any young lady, a young girl pregnant out of wedlock and parents would disown them or get mad at them, and mama kay would take them in and you could watch mama kay work her magic in two or three
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weeks she'd invite the mother to have lunch with her and the daughter would be there and they'd go home together. i watched that and lived with that. >> when you talked about the toot it reminded me of today, at 2:00 the president gives a speech on the opioid crisis, hitting the coal country hard and maine, bangor area, time i spent, hit very hard. is the united states governor doing enough? >> oh, mike, no, we're finding out some of our agencies have not only done anything, they basically hurt it by not enforcing and not having-- you've read the different things that have gone through. i don't know whether that's intentional, but you can't send 9 million pills, opiate pills to a county and say someone is on top of this. it's a business model.
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>> and how did it sneak up on us? i feel like in the bubbles, the problem was evident for a lot longer than people real leased and the new yorkers said the members put it in league with-- >> this would be a pandemic in any other realm. it's definitely an epidemic. we've lost 200,000 americans, that's more than any war since world war ii and we would have been valleying the troops literally to say if we had to get the national institute of health involved. all hands on deck. we haven't done that. first of all, when it started in the '80's, making sure they're taking care of returning veterans and soldiers and then the pain threshold becomes an element of wellness. what's your pain threshold.
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so here comes the company called purdue farming and said we've got a miracle drug oxycontin and the rest is history. and you figured when you had the food and drug, fda, a government agency saying that we approve this product, it does what it's supposed to do, you think well, it's a safe product. dea is allowing it to be distributed. so drug enforcement agency. and then you have your doctors, the most trusted person next to your family member saying this will help you. >> so, they legitimized it. so, a government, the person next to you in your family it's legitimized. it became a run away train. and we had vicodin and lortab as schedule three. i can't believe it they were out like m & m's. >> so you spend more time talking to this president more than most democrats.
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to what degree do you think he is, he gets it or what degree does the white house go further. >> first of all, we've got to get a secretary of hhs and a drug czar, someone who has experience. >> who would you suggest? >> gentleman i suggest is the gentleman out of dea and that railroaded out. >> this is the-- >> yeah. >> and say his name. >> i'm going to try to pronounce his name. i know his first name, joe. [laughter] >> now, that is a smart politician. senator manchin, last month, you were a part of a group of red state democrats who met with the president to discuss tax reform. what was that like? >> very engaging. i've had quite a few conversations with the presidents, we've got a good relationship back and forth and we agree to disagree, i can-- i can tell you this when i'm with the president, i truly
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have a feeling that he wants-- he's much more comfortable trying to do a bipartisan deal than anything to hold the departments in line. that's not a comfort level. he'll do it because he's expected to be a republican president. but, you can just tell the body language and his tone of voice is much more comfortable trying to find that deal, trying to find a pathway. >> a lot of people are not going to believe that. so talk that through a little more. >> i'm trying to find out which is my glass here. okay. i can only give you my experience. other people have different experience. we joust back and forth, one time we were talking and he said i can come after you hard and you'd probably buckled in or voted for my health care, the health care-- >> pushed in and buckle in, that's you, not him? >> that's west virginia talk, i
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don't know new york talk, push the push on and full throttle and when a people says i need you, i need you, i need you, mr. president, in all due respect, i know you couldn't, because there's a fix, there's a balance and we can find the balance. be the mr. fix it president, you came through this process in an unorthodox way. it's not from the traditional republicans so you don't have to toe that line. find that middle. that's what people want. i'm hoping that that will happen. >> and how did he react to that advice? >> no you wouldn't, if i could think there's a middle ground and right now we're going to find the middle ground, lamar alexander and patty murray, we have a pretty good bill. 24 response sosresponses, and w last time you saw legislation
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with the d's and r's on it. >> and if you did the skinny bill, the graham-cassidy bill he had to stabilize the market as you transition. it's nothing new, if we can get that and understand that we're moving forward we're going to do a lot better. >> senator, i'm going to circle back because it's a good tweet for axios 360. the whistle blower to the drug czar. if you mentioned to the president? >> this is my audience, i'll mention it today. >> you're going to see him today and be at the opioid event. >> i think all hundred senators should go. this is not a democrat or republican problem. >> what are you going to say about the drug czar. >> medical expertise and medical background and has been personally involved.
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you can find a lot of doctors, scientists, family member who have a cold, a daughter, a son. they're passionate and can't be swayed, as soon as i do this, i'll have a job here. it shouldn't be a revolving door. there shouldn't be anybody in an agency that overseas, and has a revolving door that they can go to them the next day, that's wrong. >> what can washington learn from the state about actually getting things done? >> well, you know, it's the good old days. >> what do you mean? >> the good old days, what i mean by that, i never-- unless i looked and did a little bios on all the governors, there are 50 of them. i couldn't get if they were d or not. we had infrastructure problems,
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road problems, education problems, we all had responsibility. and we had to live within our confines. the first thing the governors do, they do an estimate and this is what you've got to work with. okay, you start picking your priorities based on values. you can give all the wish lists you want to and the political speeches you want to, you can only do so much. that kind of restraint doesn't happen in washington, because you have a printing press here. we'll go further in debt and don't worry about it. that's where we are today. we didn't have that luxury and we have to get back to the fiscal responsible that we're all for. >> what's the likelihood that there are senate democrats that will vote for president trump's tax cuts? >> i don't think this is his tax policy what you're seeing.
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they put a template down. he and i were talking and this is not going to be a tax cut for the rich, people like me, and i said mr. president, that's a great way to start. >> that was at a dinner. there was three democrats, five republicans and sitting and had a lovely dinner and then another dinner later on, invited to dinner at jared ivanka's home, which is a beautiful venue. >> which dinner was fancier? >> the dinner i got the most-- you know, asking me one of the shows in the morning, we were having a nice dinner and the dinner they brought me an apple strudel and it looked like a beautiful egg. and people are saying this, and i'm thinking, okay, i know from a coal mining town. i've never seen an egg served with a strudel. i'm thinking what do i do with this. and i thought, when in rome go for it. and it was ice cream and called
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a quinnle, a french way to roll the ice cream, so then on top of that, my staff, i go back to the office after i made a little bit of a fool of myself not knowing that i had ice cream in the shape of an egg, i said when is the last time somebody asked me, my governor friend from wyoming calls me and says, what's wrong with you people in west virginia, can't you tell the difference between ice cream? yeah, when is the last time in wyoming you saw ice cream look like an egg? [laughter] >> with that being said, they showed me how to do it on a youtube thing and it went crazy. they were very good conversations. with that, i just said, you know, when you have mike mullen, who used to be-- mike was the joint chiefs of staff. okay, you have the person who is supposed to know what's going on around the world and greatest threats we face and i was armed services. the question to mike, general, what's the greatest threat the
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united states of america faces? we have war or this going, iraq, middle east and syria was firing up and the thing going crazy around the world. i'm going to find out where the hot spot is. he never missed a bate, never skipped a beat or paused, the largest threat to the united states is the debt of this nation, it will be greatest threat we face as a super power of the world. that was very, very sobering to me and i felt that because papa joe, my grandfather said, joe, uncontrolled or unmanaged debt will make cowards out of the decisions you make. we've all hit tough times and saying rob peter to pay paul, you're just trying to get through. if you don't change your ways, both peter and paul will leave you, okay? and this is the thing we're trying to do and right now we're playing a game of russian roulette. they want me to vote on a piece of legislation, i've been very
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clear, i cannot in good conscience say you want now to use dynamic scoring knowing we're going to start out if you give me the static score, it shows what you have-- the changed you want to make shows we'll be one inform trillion, inmum in the hole. static means if we charge 35% for corporate taxes we reduce, every point is fatty. dynamics, 35 to 25, but when you stimulate the economy and people have confidence then it's the same as now you've got a return of 38%. does that make sense? that's what they're hoping for and i said, that would be like me knowing that i have my payment, my mortgage payment the next day, tomorrow's thursday, and i am walking in tonight, wednesday, into the casino and walk up to roulette
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or craps table and say i'm going to be able to take care of my payment. that's what they're doing and i said i can't do that, but what we can do is find, can we be competitive? >> yes, we can. >> can we be globally competitive? >> yes. >> reduce the rates, simplify it. they can't say who is middle class. they're saying this amount of income. >> i'm telling you, middle class in my mind is anybody who gets a paycheck and when you have doe -- deductions and state taxes. the people at the top of the food chain don't get paid like you and i do. once they understand the pass through it's a whole different ball game. >> and you start eating ice cream that looks like an egg. >> i can tell this is not the right place to bring that up. >> senator, as we say goodbye
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here, give me where things are headed. what is the likelihood in january of 2019 that chuck chuter is majority leader chuck schumer. >> and as i said, one from farmington, oklahoma and our politics might be different, probably are, i'm more of a centrist moderate conservative and fiscally responsibility and socially compassionate. i don't know where i fit, i know that common sense is common sense. you can't b-s in west virginia, they can see your eyes and your soul. and i said if you can't elect them, you can't be in the majority. >> if i could change two things in america and you want to change dynamics of this town, first of all, you understand i go to work every day in a hostile working environment. >> he said what do you mean?
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>> i go to work as a democrat, d by my name, and expected to make phone calls to spend guess the r's. >> they could be my friend, the same thing, they have to raise money and i said from kay day one, i'm not going to do that. they expect you to go into the district or state that a republican is running, if they're up for reelection, call it cycle. they want a d there instead of an r. if you go to west virginia every day and trying to get your fellow worker fired, nell' take you in the parking lot. make you understand that that's not the way that you should do. i'm not going to make phone calls against my colleague. i will not campaign against a city i court.
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we have you had have rules in the senate and house it's an ethical violation if you're campaigning against a sitting colleague. it would change the demeanor and dialog of the place. next of all, if you want to change america, change the way we redistrict. we do that and be computer driven. make the first and make it work out of a computer-driven model that gives us more of a balance rather than someone far to the right. we've driven this process, it's all right to be on the extreme because we've got a-- if you're hard core right or left we'll have a district for you. >> senator, as we say goodbye here, one of your favorite things about fall is turkey hunting. >> oh, boy. >> how is turkey hunting like being a lawmaker? >> well. [laughter] >> first--
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>> someone will eventually shoot you. >> senator manchin, thank you very much for joining us. [applause] >> [inaudible conversation] >> senator manchin, thank you so much. now it's my honor to welcome to the stage an nbc news capitol hill correspondent, the host of msnbc's news, casey, thank you so much for coming. a friend for a long time and thank you for being here, congratulations on the 7 to 9 p.m. on msnbc and break a news, you have an exclusive guest. >> we do, we are going to hear from senator rand paul on sunday in an exclusive interview. that will be great. hopefully a new guest to announce in the next couple of days. >> casey, you've covered the white house, covered capitol hill, been on the campaign
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trail, sort of the bermuda triangle of political life. what are the differents on ends of capitol hill. >> i always worked on capitol hill and i thought gave me an advantage trying to cover the white house. i think your challenge as a white house reporter, are' you're working in a competitive space and some of your sources working out of the west wing. to a certain extent a lot of the job is trying to figure out get the latest statement they're putting out, trying to figure out what's true and not true, and in the age of trump things have changed a little in that regard, but one of the benefits i thought bringing to white house coverage. there's a lot of truth, and one of the things i learned early
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on, a, you can track down information by people on capitol hill even though you were sitting in the west wing and they provided a different perspective that was really volumab valuable. they're working day-to-day working on the beat and the white house-- especially now that i'm working in television, the white house is a physically enclosed small space and that presents a unique set of challenges. i love covering capitol hill because it's one of most open and accessible environments. >> you can walk up on-- >> you can be outside as they vote. house speaker paul ryan gave a lovely speech last night at our annual awards dinner and had jokingly photo shopped a few of us who cover him behind, you know, trees and following him around and that's, you know, he was joking about it, but that's kind of an opportunity that we
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get to have every day, that i, quite frankly, really exposure. >> you have some questions about senators out there. how do you know when to keep hammering them and what is your sort of taught as you're hammering somebody? >> you know, one of the things that's different about and i came from a different background, mike and i used to work at politico and also the associated press. television is a different medium and so, when you are speaking to somebody on camera, you think about how you're coming across in addition to trying to listen to what they are saying and my personal rule, i always try to be plight and everybody approaches this differently. some people are combative. that's not how i go about doing my job every day. there's a difference between being polite and asking enough
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questions. often times when you ask a tough question in a polite way, the answer is illuminating. how they're affecting to that as opposed to being on the defensive and ended up with a change. and there are people at home watching often have obvious questions what's going on and sometimes we as journalists forget to ask the most available question. and often times, you'd be surprised that's something that people take notice and ends up getting a lot of questions. >> what is an example at home, a mama kay kind of question. >> rick perry probably won't be happy with me for remembering this, a question i asked him, hey, are you smart enough to be president of the united states? because that's the question that everybody had, all right, after the 2012 campaign if this guy was going to take another
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run at the presidency, you know, governor-- then governor perry, to his great credit treated the question with no small degree of humor and willingness to engage and i would say i still consider myself to have a good working relationship with he and his team today. to a ent extend, you have to answer those in a very, i would say at least, going back to what i said about being complit. there's a way to answer that question that's not confrontati confrontational or out of line. i try to bring that spirit to my everyday job now. >> and when didn't it work? an example. >> when it doesn't work, it's something there's not a noteworthy moment. for the most part, i'm not sure
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i had anybody take a question that i asked and react to it in a negative way, i think again for the most part i work hard to have cordial relationships with people because i believe that, you know, you can have a respectful working relationship with politicians or that we should strive to do that without giving up any journalistic integrity or failing the people that we're serving, and i believe that you can hold people to account and still be a nice person. i guess what i'm trying to say. >> casey, on the title of our event today is party wars, is progress still possible? in the time that you've been covering public life, from the different aspects we talked about, the campaign trail, ap for ap in the speakers lobby at nbc news. what has changed about the
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substance of our politics? >> quite a bit has changed and i think the pace is something he think that also affects the substance and i think when you talk to members of congress, many of whom i've covered for ten plus years, there's obviously been a lot of new faces as well, but they will frequently in private conversations cite the use of twitter and the speed at which information travels as a reason why they feel kind of closed in. they don't have an option to work with each other because the speed and quite frankly, the viciousness of social media, very quickly, you know, they can put something out. it used to be kind of in the older days and this still happens from time to time, there would be what we call a trial balloon in the new york times, somebody who is writing the tax bill on the ways and means committee would call a report who covers the budget. we're thinking of doing this,
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here are the documents. it's kind of like the 401(k)'s the last 48 hours, members at capitol hill would read it, reaction, get a sense and phone calls from constituents or others, and now the way that that can go out in the morning at 10:00 and by 10:30, the, you know, breitbart news has, you know, written seven headlines and the office is receiving, you know, calls with people screaming obscenities on the other line. there's much less opportunity, i would say, for the bipartisan back and forth and deal making to kind of work itself out over time without people coming under enormous and often, you know, very negative and difficult to deal with political pressure and that puts a lot of the process behind closed doors. because there's a real sense among lawmakers that they want
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let anything get out until they're ready to do the whole thing because it exact effect would play out. you saw it with the health care bill and they're trying to do something differently. so there's a real tension there mean, okay, yes, people have easier access to the information going on in theory, but in reality it makes it harder both for politicians to saement to work with the other side and for us covering up the substan substance. i would argue, i don't think any of us have experienced anything like what we've experienced the last nine months in terms of the speed with which the story is changing and that's something that i think we're all kind of learning how to manage in real time. >> kasie hunt, the pen ultimate
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question sh question, jeff flake and others explicitly criticizing the president. do what does this affect behind the scene from other senators. >> i don't think there's a long list of people willing to say those things this public. the list of people saying them in private is much longer. i think there's a very well-- look the republican party has been for years the conservative party that meant things about, how they hold, you know, positions on family are historically cultural issues ap meant that a lot of them put a lot of value on being polite and a lot of people don't think that president trump meets that standard. the channel for-- the challenge for them, this is driven by voters. voters are telling them when
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they go home they're not supporting president enough in many cases. and there are others, i would argue that jeff flake is in this category, there is a segment of the republican party it's based, say, in the suburbs and those policies have a much different challenge because they're potentially in danger of losing their seats. >> and the reality is, voters are looking for the approach that the president is bringing to the table than the way they've been done. >> the new york time had stories despite the high pro feel speeches which should get the coverage that they did, but in the end, at least so far, it does look like trump's party both in the house and senate because back home, you start of agree with that big idea?
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>> i do. i think that it really is splitting the republican party apart for this reason because there is a smaller, a kind of group of republicans who, you know, were elected in a different time or in areas where, i mean, if you think about california republicans, for example, and this is a little bit anecdotaanecdotal, b spoken to many in that state who are appalled by president trump and who are more likely, i think, to likely vote for a democrat next time around than they are. and that puts a certain set of pressure on a republican from california. they have to figure out, okay, how do i make this stand or not? these are typically people who, they often would prefer to go along with their leadership. so, with the leadership sticking with the president, that puts them in one kind of an awkward position and separates them from the rest of the people in their party, who if you're from a solidly conservative state, district, et cetera, that's not suburban
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and this is a real cultural divide, i think, that's playing out and you can see it in the halls of the capitol because those people are saying hey, every time we fail to do the thing that the president says he wants us to do we get hurt at home and they're more afraid of a primary challenge not necessarily from someone who is more conservative, but more willing to, you know, to be the kind of candidate that the president was. >> kasie hunt, mike's top ten and event with one fun thing, one fun thing for our guest today, is had a hunting theme for the fall and you went hunting with a united states senator. >> yes, with ted cruz of texas. >> host: oh, my! >> the annual-- this happens every year, and this year donald trump, jr. is doing it, steve king, republican congressman from iowa hosts an annual pheasant hunt and usually hosts the presidential candidate being iowa so one year rick perry went, they did not allow us
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along for that one, but when ted cruz did it a year or so later, they allowed us. ted cruz didn't bag pheasants. he's not necessarily an avid hunter, paul ryan, you know, somebody who really knows his way around with that particular activity, but, yeah, i would say it's memorable. >> but he didn't bag any reporters either. >> no, thankfully we all came out of it unscathed. >> that's good. congratulations on kasie d.c., off to a fantastic start. we'd like to thank hewlett foundation for making it possible and c-span for carrying this important conversation and thank you and the people here for your early morning, the amazing axios
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staff who pulled this off and thank you, kasie hunt for a great conversation. thank you so much. [applause] >> thank you all for coming and have a great day. see us on ♪ [inaudible conversations] . >> this weekend on book tv, 70th anniversary party in washington d.c. >> i'm telling you, the fun things. >> sunday at 8 p.m. eastern. nby, katie couric, unbelievable my front row seat to the craziest campaign in american history. >> it's no secret that politicians don't like reporters. nixon had a fraught relationship with his press
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corps. there are legendary stories about ron sigler his press person getting into it with reporters. what was unusual about this was the very public nature of it, the way he would go after reporters, myself included from the stage of rallies, and have the crowd, encourage the crowd to essentially turn on us and boo us. >> and at 9 p.m. eastern on after words, journalist and former host of cbs's face the nation bob schieffer in his book, overload, finding the truth in the deluge of news. he's interviewed by susan glaser. >> we have to keep doing what we're doing, trying to sort out the true from the false and that's an overwhelming job now, a bigger responsibility than we've ever had because we're dealing with so much more information. and we now have access to more
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information than any people in the history of the world, but we're running a little short on curators now. we can't process it. >> for more of this weekend's schedule go to book >> today marks the 50th anniversary of the day navy flyer, now arizona senator john mccain was shot down over north vietnam during his 23rd mission. he ejected from his sky hawk bomber into a lake, was captured, beaten and held in filthy conditions with poor medical care for his life threatening injuries. he spent two of the more than five years he was held as a p.o.w. in solitary confinement. american history tv spoke with senator mccain about those events and he reflected on the war's legacy and impact on ameri america. >> senator mccain, when you look bac y


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