tv Linda Nathan When Grit Isnt Enough CSPAN December 28, 2017 7:08am-8:05am EST
millions around the country and around the world so if you are a reader, plan to join us for in-depth on booktv, and interactive program the first sunday of every month to let you call in and talk directly to your favorite authors and it all kicks off sunday, january 7th at noon with david ignatius, washington post columnist and author of ten national security thrillers would you can join us live on sunday, january 7th or watch it on demand at booktv.org. >> next, former high school principal linda nathan, "when grit isn't enough" about students pursuing higher education, this is 50 minutes. >> i'm here to introduce linda nathan who is also my mom. very lucky.
linda has worked in bps for 38 years. found a three different schools and started many different leadership programs across the state and for that reason my brothers and i rarely saw her but linda is an amazing inspiration to me, why i am an education policy management -- i am inspired by her every day. i hope i don't have to do the 5 am wake up to be just like her but that is just my own wish. she's also alongside carmen torres, where is she. common and linda are my inspirations and are my inspirations and i'm so so lucky to be able to introduce
my mom, my favorite educator and best mom to talk about "when grit isn't enough". [applause] >> not always you get to be introduced by your daughter, kind of cool but they are opening up the back. it is hot in here. anyone wants to get up, give it up one more time for those kids. kind of why i do what i do because those kids came all the way over with her amazing teachers, let's give it up for those amazing teachers. so i am here to talk about this
book that you all are going to buy because you don't make money writing books but you are going to bite because the royalties go back to the kids and that is really important to me. the royalties go back to the arts academy can and royalties for this book will go to them as well as the kid that tlc is so it is important that you buy it and buy it from independent bookstores as well so first i want to know who is in the audience before i launch in. how many of you are teachers? raise your hands big and high. how many of you have ever teach to? okay. how many of you are leading schools, leading organizations, how many of you have ever led schools and organizations? how many are grad students? how many of you are former grad students of mine? thank you for being here.
so i wrote this book to start a larger conversation about what we believe will help students succeed after high school. i also wrote this book because i am angry at what it takes to really create access and equity in this country. we continue in this country to think it is the responsibility of the most vulnerable amongst us, those with the least amount of access to create access for themselves. i wrote this book to say that is just not true. i wrote this book because in my first book, the hardest questions, i tell the story of shinny a. i get criticized a lot for this but i tell you that was a lot of my motivation. she was one of my students at boston arts academy, she graduated at the top of her class. she was accepted to her dream
college with the full scholarship. she was a first-generation scholarship student was how many of you are first-generation kids? disappointing there aren't more at harvard, there should be. for complicated reasons, she never set foot on her college campus. she lost her scholarship in the summer after high school because she missed a deadline to send in a deposit to hold her space. for reasons that combined lack of experience and absence of cultural and financial capital and i'm sure some shame, this one dramatic mistake, one mistake had a dramatic effect on the course of her life. that story became the impetus for this book. when i stepped down from day-to-day leadership of the boston arts academy i wanted to take a more critical look at what i had accomplished and
examine some long-held assumptions of mine. i began to interview alumni. those who had gone on to college and those who had not. those who had done well and graduated, those who had started and left. in total i interviewed over 90 students and spoke informally to dozens more. i found out that her story was not an exception. i began to reflect on the promise i had made each year to my 125 freshmen. all of you i would say in an assembly just like this would go on to college or secondary school but i said it like that, if you are going to go on to a conservatory that was college but all of you will go on to college. it is the right promise to make. i still feel that way but my emphasis was wrong.
i did not do enough to promote career opportunities along with college and as i listen to my former students five assumptions or myths became a clear refrain. if we carefully begin to interrogate them and that is the invitation of this book we will begin to build better bridges between higher education and pre-k having 12 education. the book is organized around these five. i want you to hear them. money isn't an obstacle, their quote. race doesn't matter. just work harder. college is for everyone. if you believe, your dreams will come through. the college acceptance rate of students from boston arts
academy is very high. i could have just been pleased with those statistics, 94% to 98% are accepted to college and nearly two thirds graduate within six years. these are extraordinary figures for any school particularly in urban school but i wanted to understand what happened to those who didn't go to college or weren't successful and i wanted to understand the journey of those in college. it is too easy for us to assume that all students start in the same place, that everyone has access to the same degree of knowledge to navigate the college years. as a recent new york times article says, this came out just as i was turning the book into the publisher, quote, for young people with college educated parents that have to higher education may be stressful but there is a roadmap. if standardized test scores are too low they can pay for a prep
course. affair as a is lackluster they can hire a writing coach, no one will be any the wiser. if they are tempted to give up, their parents will push them on. few of these supports are in place for low income or first-generation students and that is what this book is about. we assume deep social inequities can be overcome by individual efforts and everyone has an equal chance of success and if we just work harder we will be fine. we assume this because there are so many stories of young people who make it and i do in the book tell those wonderful stories too. many of you have heard of diane guerrero in the country we
love, she plays little latina in orange is the new black, she's one of my, she is amazing and she was being interviewed for this book. but we make the assumption that those who lack determination or are not sufficiently gritty are the reason folks won't get ahead. this great, pedagogy, if you will, is something that is popularized in schools, some schools of education, i hope not here, this just work harder kind of egos so i really want to critically examine that. i am going to read a little excerpt from the book where i describe two classrooms, one where the teacher is all about grit and the other where the behavioral expectations are a little more lax and i am reading this in the hopes that you will all run out of here, by the book and say grit isn't
what we need to be talking about so here we go. page 84 in case you want to follow. i'm going to read it from my big print text. 25, third-graders sat crosslegged on the rug facing their teacher and a big video screen. we are about to begin our snake unit and this is the video i promised yesterday we would watch. a hand shot up. a little girl with many braids and ribbons in her hair asked is this the one where we get to see the snake walk out of its skin? yes. we will see that and we will take notes like scientists as we watch and make some sketches. everyone nodded eagerly, the teacher distributed clipboards and papers and pencils and nervous excitement rippled through the class. clearly this was a lesson they had been eagerly anticipating. when we are already and sitting like amanda and juan, setting
up and tracking me i will start the video. the students repositioned themselves and held their clipboards at the ready in their laps. however, two students in the back row were overtaken with giggles and seem to have a hard time either putting in the paper or paying attention. the teacher redirected them a couple times but they were clearly in a world of their own. all others had their eyes facing forward and were not paying much attention to the google is but suddenly the teacher said it is clear to me that the class is not ready to engage in learning, let's go back to our desks until we have 100% engagement, you are not respecting the learning process. you have completely forgotten about slanting. did you lose your back muscles over the weekend, too many of you are slouching. i'm going to begin to hand out the merits, i will make sure we know what slanting is. raise your hand if you've heard
that acronym, sit up, ask questions, nod, track the speaker. part of the grid ethos is all kids know how to do that on demand. the little girl returning to the text whispered to her friend we aren't showing respect. her friend nodded gravely, students quietly got to their feet and with an air of despondency trooped back to their desks. now we have to wait until tomorrow to see the video the little girl said sadly and i don't want a america was when the class is dismissed for lunch the teacher demanded everyone line up silently. as they proceeded to the cafeteria is a past a second-grade class who were walking in bubble formation just so you know what that is, very common in lots of schools these days, these 8-year-olds
held their arms crisscrossed across the chest almost like they were in straitjackets, they were puffed out as if they had caught a bubble inside. they proceeded silently to the cafeteria where they dropped their arms and relaxed their expressions was there were 5 different classrooms in the cafeteria. and all of them aid in complete silence while teachers monitored the room. i will stop. in the book i don't tell you what schools these are from but this is not an exceptional school. i don't want you to think it is. i visited many many schools like this. i inquired if this silent lunch was a punishment for bad behavior and i was informed silent lunch with a regular occurrence. who want students to be able to have time in the day they are quiet and peaceful but it felt anything but peaceful to me. seems more like a prison with the teachers as guards. i was stunned that this had
become regular practice is gone is the joy of meeting friends at lunch, chattering about anything or nothing, gone is the carefree kid, none of the students in this school are white. as in many schools, all of the teachers are young and white and female. what message does this send to kids who are not of the dominant culture? the school felt oppressive. while making eye contact and nodding at speakers is not wrong, this land system is not contextualized to a variety of learning environments, if it resulted in an emphasis on behavior over active learning, you are considered a good learner if you can demonstrate slant, but this is a minimal condition for learning in most situations.
for many students this behavior has nothing to do with learning. of course it is hard to teach of two students are cutting up in class, but the third class science teacher described clearly been trained to stop the lesson in the absence of 100% compliance. in our conversation later the teacher admitted to me she felt badly about her decision to abort the lesson in favor of behavior. in this school we believe if students are not practicing slant, then learning will be compromised, it is like a broken window theory, you have to take care of the small things before you can take care of big things or nothing will get fixed. but this lavish adherence to slant that i had witnessed in so many schools makes me wonder about the message we send to our young people. the word repressive kept coming to mind, little room existed for divergent thinking. i reflect on another school i visited which was the opposite
of this no excuses school. in an urban public school in new york city i witnessed a group of eighth-graders discussing the novel if hill street could talk by james baldwin. what struck me in addition to their professional level of discourse was how they had arranged themselves in the classroom, some sat on top of their desks. others were on chairs, a few were standing. not everyone was in a circle. one young man sat outside the circle and participated in the discussion even though he looked angry the entire time. another student sat at the teacher's desk which when i asked the teacher if there's seating arrangement was distracting to him or other students he looked at me curiously. why should it matter how they sit if they are participating and respecting one another's
opinions, that is my goal. can they talk to one another from the text, can they find evidence about their points of view, can they build off of what each other says. what about the fact that not everyone was living by the same rules, clearly the directions were to sit in a circle. look, he began somewhat impatiently with me. what i like everyone to sit in a circle, of course. do i want to sacrifice valuable teaching and learning time to be constantly reminding students of those expectations and more importantly do i want to make sure the classroom is a place where there is breathing room? i know what is going on with carlos and edward, i know why they moved out of the circle, the rest of the class doesn't care. i wasn't sure i was satisfied with these answers. i wanted to know if mister johnson had seen the no excuses schools where rules were quickly and easily adhered to and teachers felt teaching could begin. of course, he told me, many of these students have come from
schools like that and were asked to leave these schools because they were not disciplined enough. carlos is still smarting from the memory of his last school and by the way you won't see those ubiquitous college banners all over my wall. my job is to teach my students, this may sound political, to get them to think for themselves. i agree with that goal but i was uncomfortable with the lack of structure or consequences for behavior in his classroom. i wondered if some of the no excuses grit pedagogy could be used in this case. couldn't this teacher see how well behaved students were in those schools and wasn't impressed with her test scores? clearly they had learned to listen to one another. he countered i know that many of my colleagues believe my following that formula slant and no excuses kind of practices kids will get into college in large numbers and
get out of the ghetto but i don't think they are asking the students or the community the students come from what success would look like for them. what is missing is learning about self-determination and advocacy for oppressed people everywhere. i know it is a lot to ask of teachers but we cannot keep seeing ourselves as ahistorical beings, we as teachers and particularly white teachers like me need to understand students of color are in this situation because of systemic racism. we have to critically examine how we might be perpetuating that. mister johnson went on to describe how his students were doing in high school. the ones that challenged me the most are often the students who do the best in high school and college, they know how to think critically. in this book, i ask whether these no excuses, slants kind
of interventions are actually successful. i question their long-range effectiveness. i question the race and class implications, i question whether training teachers in these methods will create the classroom our teachers deserve, the benefit of lockstep learning and grit may have been overrated and traits like curiosity and creativity given short shrift, the boys google the most may be the most curious learners later on, those 21st-century competencies of critical thinking, collaboration, communication, creativity, that employers and others insist are the key to a productive and competitive economy are not well facilitated by the no excuses approach. another assumption i also address in the book is one that says college is for everyone. we know that is not true and
not realistic but we have done little in our schools to truly prepare students for careers that will allow them to lead middle-class lives. we must change our language from college and career ready and move away from what i see in too many secondary schools which is everyone will go to college. my new call is success and dignity for all with the promise of earning a living wage or more succinctly college and career for all. here are the national statistics, 52% of high school graduates and role in college. that means nearly half of students do not. what kind of preparation are we giving them, i looked locally and internationally, here is what i conclude. we must do a better job with career and technical education
with internships while young people are in high school. i want you to consider the next statistic, took a long time to get this in my head. teens with the highest employment rate come from families with incomes above $120,000. teams with the highest employment, work experience come from the families with incomes over $120,000. we are perpetuating again and again income inequality. those young people from low income sectors are in the greatest need of work experience but the least likely to receive them. in switzerland, students experience a more cohesive approach to education and work.
at least 50% of 16 to 19-year-olds are involved in vocational education and one of the hallmarks of the swiss system is it is permeable, students can go back and forth between career and technical education and more academic education. there is a real sense that apprenticeships are a high status way to learn. i saw this level of career and technical education at some schools in our country, not nearly enough. in the book i talk about one school 40 miles from here located in a working-class community outside boston. is what one student said to me. using college as a place to grow up is very expensive. i'm glad i have been exposed to so many different areas. i might want to specialize in. another student told me he was graduating from high school allied health program and was certified as a nursing assistant but he knew he didn't
like patient care. he will be going on to college to major in clinical lab science which he found he didn't like direct service worker but rather the science behind diseases but i could have said in another book about my experiences in boston public schools with career and technical vocational high school. the school hold such promise for young people and has been underfunded for three decades. i truly believe having a strong sense of what you are interested in pursuing in college or a career and technical program needs to become a focus of high schools across this country. in the book i talk a little bit about profit schools because they have come in saying they are filling this gap, but the horror stories of my alumnus in for profit schools with enough to move me quickly away from them although i did try in some cases to give them a good look. elizabeth warren, senator from
massachusetts, has a website that serves as a watchdog and she urges us to stay vigilant especially in the time of donald trump and betsy devos where i fear these colleges and coming back. i have many questions about how to reinvigorate career and technical education. one of the things i spent time discussing was the need to reinvest in community colleges and we must ensure that all high school students have work experience, not just middle and upper-class students and not just 40 hours of community service but real commitment. i even suggest in the book service year for all americans which i envision a national program where all young people have a chance between high school and college or as part of their senior year to work deeply and daily in an area that speaks to their passion. in this book, those who know me, i take on the current
obsession with high-stakes testing, this is one of the reasons there is no longer room in the curriculum for career and technical education. we have become so focused on ranking students in schools that we have lost sight of the importance of teaching empathy and how to get along with those different from you. at a time when our democratic institutions are being daily undermined i believe a curriculum focused on student agency and activism can help prepare young people to enter a world in which they have the tools to reshape that reality. we must continue to embrace the largest purposes of education, to help our young people understand the context of their lives including cultural, racial and linguistic and artistic history as well as the lives of others different from themselves. i know from seeing these young people that education and the arts does that. in an increasingly complex and
uncertain world, we need to ensure young people graduate from high school having learned, metaphorically speaking, to walk in one another's shoes. we must embrace languages, cultures, movements that are foreign to our own culture. we must express important life connections through drawing, painting, sculpting, building and prevent those differences from becoming impediments to change. as teachers it is our job to help young people critically perceive the world, the way they exist in the world, not the world as a static reality but reality in the process of transformation. even in an era of trump, i remain hopeful. in large part i hope -- derived from generations of students i have taught and those i will continue to teach. my hope is further strengthened because of the amazing teachers
i have known who continue to do such amazing work each day. they create classrooms where students can realize their individual and collective dreams so with humility i hope this book gives you some tools to keep fighting and i think you. [applause] >> i want to read, i promised this student i would read her email to me. i was on the radio a couple weeks ago. dear miss nathan, what a surprise. i was working as usual listening to npr when i heard your name, then your book. i almost started to cry, joy from hearing you, that it was not my fault that i didn't make it, happiness that someone is taking action hearing the silent tears of the struggle many of us go through to make it through college and never
and other societies. i will stop there. >> great comment. i talk a lot about perseverance and use our kids performing and obviously they understand practice and the importance of working together. what i take on in the book is this unhealthy alliance too many schools have made and i think particularly those of us in urban schools need to interrogate that. the idea of working together is critical but the idea that it is your fault always if you don't succeed is not true and that is what i try to break out. >> second comment. i wonder if you address teacher retention is a problem. the reason i ask is you describe those two teachers, the young teacher with client and an older teacher who figured out how to prioritize
educational issues. my experience, everything in the classroom is a negotiation but over time if you stay with it long enough like three to eight years depending on the teacher you get a really nuanced sense of what those trade-offs are and you say these are the lines in the sand. don't care if it is this way but today i need you to show me that you understand the difference between fact and opinion or whatever it is and it becomes a multi-year negotiation. these -- teacher retention is key to that. when young people leave the field, they don't reach the deck of dealing with the chaos and reality of the changing classroom. >> i don't address it in this book but it takes eight years to make a good teacher. haven't gotten there. my students at harvard hear me say that. 8 years to be a good teacher
and then you can start talking about what you want to do so we have to get a lot better a teacher retention because by then you are just getting your feet, 3 to 8 you are just beginning to figure it out and year 8 you can begin to do some good work so thank you for that comment. >> i was wondering about the students who start college and then leave. how do they make it back in, not a lot of pathways for nontraditional students. wonder if you -- >> that -- let me answer. that is what started this. it is a real tragedy. i have too many alums who are out there. in the book i tell a story of one who is still working to pay off those loans was one of the stories i talk about in the book is the fact that kids who are not on scholarships are
able to drop the organic chemistry class or bio class and take it in the summer, kids on scholarship cannot so we double jeopardize a lot of our students with the least experience. the book is a critique of higher education i have to say, i was appalled at in the 21st century the lack of infrastructure for first-generation kids. one of my students says to me if i read was evaluated the way pre-k-12 is evaluated half of our colleges would be shut down. they accept us and they don't graduate us. this isn't about you personally but there is no interface between financial aid, the success office, the stories the kids tell me that i document in here are hair-raising. it took me calling a college president of one of milams who
didn't have the wherewithal to do her health insurance bill to get her back and rolled as a junior in college. these are not exceptional stories so that is the hard part. i had hoped during obama's presidency that we would do a massive loan forgiveness program. we have not so we have so many young people out there still working on paying back college loans and they will never get a college degree and that should send alarm bells everywhere. that was a lot of what i wrote about when i wrote this so thank you for the question. glad you are in the work and hopefully you can change your institution. let me know how i can help. other questions? >> first-generation students attending college, whose
responsibility is it to provide the information about how to navigate the system? >> college. i think high school can do some and we do and i argue for a better bridge but i think what i was trying to say to her question, colleges of gotten off so easy on this one that colleges don't think it is their responsibility but it is. i had a terrible meeting some years ago with all the admissions people from boston area colleges and all boston icicle headmasters and i did it to bring us together and it was so clear to me that college folks didn't think it was their responsibility. you send them prepared and we will take them. i don't think that is going to be successful. this book tells me it is not so thank you for the question. yes, sir. how are you? >> thanks for being here today. is a eight year teacher, thank
you for the previous comment. >> and a music teacher. >> i would like to ask, you raise the issue of internship and vocational education for students in this country to help us move past the college for all model and focus on the career and vocations fields for all students as well and you mentioned madison park in particular in boston. i'm in cambridge now. .... vocational high schools across the river in boston and ultimately underfunding is one thing but do you feel that there is room for internships and apprenticeships for part-time work experience for introduction of vocation into smaller pieces from a younger age because once they are 14 then he will begin to solidify their identity so do you feel that th students have begun to solidify their identity. do you feel there is a place for vocational identity? >> whenn i started in the late
70s as a middle-school teacher, we were required to teach middle-school education. we also had woodworking. we got rid of the things that were the most important and all my six to eighth graders had to do internship in the study program or many eighth-graders also did internships, weeklong internships. i don't think these are new ideas. i don't write about it to say i'm so smart i can figure it out. i've read about it to say come on, we've got to bring this great stuff back that we did in the past. it is critical in middle schools and high schools in places where kids can begin to model what affected this is a career criminal a career, would've hated that has a career a career because for so many kids, what they see in their own neighborhoods and families is limited. this is where it is pre-k-12 responsibility to broaden, not shrink curriculum. thank you for that.
are there other questions? >> hello. max smith. what you said about great as indeed those between a bubble hugging really spoke to me. i also think about great as the mindset and working hard. ur bood that? >> i talk about the grit and growth mindset and i kind of go back to the work where these ideas come together, and i think i nicely try to encourage them so that there is nothing wrong as i said with the idea of persevering and being tenacious. there's nothing wrong with that. what is a bad thing is the way we've taken this and so many of the concerts i visited i told my stories in the book just be
prettier in the pictures on the bulletin boards are max was gritty today when he did whatever. what about just being nice today. what is this, but there's nothing wrong with the growth mindset. i talk about that and i think i just want us to critically examine kind of the way we've swallowed this wholesale and i tried to be nice. i do. you know, i am not trying to bash anybody. she is a psychologist. i don't know if she knew how her work would be taken by the no excuses schools. thank you. >> you don't have to feel you have to ask questions. we can start selling books in a minute. [laughter] i have a question about some of the observations you did in massachusetts and elsewhere.
you had mentioned that the teacher that had more of a loose environment in his class was a man and i'm curious to know if you observed gender differences because in my own experience i feel like the male teachers demand something different from kids. >> i saw a lot of disturbing so i'm not sure if i differentiated. i don't think that i saw them commending better or worse than women for being more a ten to the philosophy or not they will have to start thinking about that. thank you. >> thank you so much for the presentation. you may do so many wonderful point. i just want to reflect for a minute about the nature of the opportunities available to the
good 40% of the population right now, folks of color, immigrants and african-americans in the urban areas and the impact that the racial and economic oppressions that you spoke of a has on how they are looking at education and also what we need to be doing a because on one hand we cathe onehand we can tat vocational education but if there are not decent jobs meeting the needs of communities and instead there's jobs meeting the needs of powerful corporations that are destroying communities, what does that mean for our educational systems and particularly the progressive systems and also, i think they e need to emphasize more the power
of community. and i'm talking about the communities from which the students come from as being equally if not more important than the power of educators and administrators have social workers and so forth because i think we devalue and underestimate the capacity of indigenous leadership in the community. nobody is or very few people like to say actually recognize the incredible kick up as the folks in the communities who may be low income but have been putting up their communities despite the horrible assaul assn the communities, so i just want to throw out a possible way of considering moving forward which is that we spend a little bit more time talking about creating opportunities for people from the community, parents and
people who are not necessarily parents, people like myself and folks who may never have had an opportunity to go to school but people from the community to work with. teachers and students and to begin offering their ideas about what yo we need to do to change education. so, i think we are missing a step. this is the fundamental step of people from the communities comy themselves, students especially, the leadership in boston is incredible. parents and other folks in the community and then teachers and socialists coming together and spending years developing an education. >> thank you for the comments. one of the reason i wanted to start with young people is you didn't see a conduct or hear of kids working together. they figured out the leadership
issue so thank you for that. are there any other questions? yes. >> my name is joan and i am a great fan of your parents and they are here today and invited me to come. through them, a great fan of you and i visited you when you are e principal of the school formerly and i think you are terrific and really onto something. >> she's being paid i think. [laughter] i wanted to particularly take you up on something you mentioned, which honestly i didn't feel was as important as now i do and that is the importance of internships for students in the even elementary school but in particular middle school and high school and this is the experience i have become
and now i'm wishing that this could be replicated in other places, so for a number of years i worked for harvard, 47 to be exact, and one of my positions was as an assistant director of ththe malcolm centeratthe malcol policy at the kennedy school. one day, and the things we looked at were education, social policy and health, those three areas and this was primarily on a masters degree level and doctoral levels and one day at a brand-new sent her one day ahead of ththehead of the center, a ge of the school very proudly so called me in and she said i'd just met with him, he's here in my office now and i want you to meet him. his name is steve davis, and he is the head of the workforce program in cambridge and i
really think we should put our money where our mouth is and take on one of the students through this program and that started i think the most rewarding for me for her ship that went on for all these years that i continued to be with that center until i went to another position. so the first thing we did and she said we are going to take one of the student so for the students in cambridge public housing most of them than they had been a couple of eighth graders but all from cambridge and all in public housing so we took the first student, she was fabulous, and i was her supervisor, but he gave her projects to do for the center. we were a research center said she got to know a little about research and administration and
she had a sweet 16 party and invited me and my mother to go to it and we went to it in cambridge and then i'm giving you sort of an example. >> i'm going to cut you off because i think there's a few other questions that your point is a wonderful one. >> very briefly i want to say this to them that we have for the longest was maria and we are still in close touch and we helped her apply to colleges. she went to college and the same thing happened to her as you were saying she got into terrible tent with credit cards, couldn't pay them off and had to drop off but it took her six or seven or eight years but she managed to graduate from college and the final thing i want to mention is that a at the time ae coming and i don't know if there still is, but sponsored by the
state was a program in the summertime for kids in cambridge at a certain income level or below and that way we were able to employ eight of them at a time and give special programs for them and i wish we could do more now. >> why don't we take one more question and then i will go sign. >> i have a two-part question. one is many people might say the push towards vocational training is back in an opposite way and they see now the relevance around that. this, i wonder how would you engage that come back, so that't of the question but the second part, et years ago i taught at cambridge a and she told she toi found it interesting that the schools, independent schools, progressive schools, they provide students with these handthesehands-on experiences in
carpentry and internship, but they don't call it vocational. they don't even call it by the title tthattitle to get the stue schools with these experiences that are life skills and valuable tha but they see it differently based on the school and social economic and in the repackaging and experiences the question is very vibrant. i just got asked in a minneapolis the same question i'm as aware as anyone about the tracking that we historically perpetuated in the vocational schools.
it's not just plumbing and cosmetology which is the way that we tend to think of the vocational. the strongest programs are in the the strongest programs are in the life, so kids are really leaving with job skills then they can go right into job skills. so if you think about all of the design and digital communication skills, you can graduate and i'm very proud it is now a career and technical high school. two pathways coming there. our kids can graduate now with the certificate and go into the workforce as well as college. i love your idea of repackaging it so these are experiences all kids can have.
as excited as a parent and cambridge they lost the accreditation for vocational schools annesmann and now it's bk into the idea that all ninth graders should take an exploratory and they are going through various studios so maybe if we use the word studios instead of career and technical, that would get us further and faster. you have been sitting and the lights are hot. i want to make sure i go out and sign. there may still be food, thank you all so much. [applause] [inaudible conversatio
onto our site. authors of historical fiction, national security thrillers, science writers, social commentators like colson, brad melt there, corey doctorow, treating books and many others. their books have been read by millions around the country and around the world. so if you are a reader could a reader, please do join us for "in depth" on booktv. an interactive program the first sunday of every month that lets you call in and talk directly to your favorite authors and it all kicks off on sunday, january 7th at noon with david ignatius, "washington post" columnist and the author of 10 national security thrillers. join us live on sunday, january 7th or watch it on demand have booktv.org. >> i've been attacked by everybody. i've been attacked by the right
wing, the russians, term campaign, and now i can add to that list the clinton campaign. >> i was here in washington d.c. not far from here. hillary was very excited. she met this young state senator who was renting. she has roots in illinois. she met this young state senator. we were on the third floor. she knew barack obama. curtis colin and of course heard washington, rahm emanuel. i haven't heard of barack obama. and so, we met 10 in the spring of 2003 and let me just say the rest is history.
>> a hearing on the agency committee that oversees transactions good defense treasury and commerce department officials testified on modernizing the agency they also discuss with the u.s. can balance the economic benefits with national security concerns arising from transactions with china and other countries. the house financial services subcommittee hearing as an hour and 35 minutes. >> feature is authorized to declare recess a minute time for five legislative days to inclusion into the record. this hearing is entitled examining the operations on foreign investment in the united states. i recognize myself