tv Washington Journal Issie Lapowsky CSPAN March 21, 2018 1:16am-1:46am EDT
>> "washington journal" continues. ost: issie lapowsky is senior writer with wired >> senior wider from wired magazine talking about data how it and up in the let analytics firm connected to the trump campaign this controversy revolves around cambridge analytic and who was that?gu >> a u.s. company spun out of a british company basically an ad marketing firm but the big marketing pitch is we do psychographic targeting that is different than demographics like gender age and race but they say we understand people
psychology and personalities so the question has been how? personality surveys, they by commercially available data but a lot of these personalities profiles that they acquired from a third-party researcher researcher they started to partner with in 2014 so they did work with the trump campaign embeddedbe some staff and prior to that also working with the ted cruz campaign so there is a lot ofay ways it could have been used during the 2016 elections elections. why facebook data and what do they do? >> they create a personality profile they need a lot of information how people feel with those hot button issues so they partnered with a researcher from cambridge and in 2014 he developed an app called your digital life that
said predict your personality so you have 70000 facebook users download the app and what they didn't realize that in doing so they were handing over all of their own personal data and their entire friend network how people are connected and what a they like and that researcher took 50 million user profiles to pass that on to cambridge analytic us of what we are learningng over the weekend that 30 million of those profiles had enough information they could come up with a personality profiles and united states and that was integral development as they can my mom -- as a company but what is left if that was used
in the trunk campaign. according to the trump campaign they were relying on the rnc data but cambridge who was crunching that data to carve that up to the audience that the truck campaign could target advertising. >> writing about cambridge analytic over one year now there is one story she is here to answer questions about this story for the next 25 minutes. so was any of this illegal so far? >> that is a really good question. up until 2015 facebook allowed any app available or to do this even change their rules to say now they can take the
data from people who willingly download the app that they cut off the social graph which is a network of information so this is all done in compliance with her own terms at the time. the problem is in 2015 facebook was alerted to the fact that third-party researcher was passing that on to cambridge and that is in violation of facebook terms. so they had the researcher and cambridge analytic and the offshoot company all promise to sign legally s binding documents they had to leave the data but now we are finding out from reports they may not have deleted that data it may have remained visible to select employees so now facebook is interested in auditing so they went to the headquarters yesterday and
promised to audit they were met by the u.k. commissioner once to do their own investigation there hoping thisotd could do through formal channelsly because through closed doors is not work so well in the past.nef >> reporting from wired cambridge analytic a so what answers do members of congress want from facebook? do they want mark sucker berg to come to washington and testify in thees fall they also their lawyers to talk about the russian influence on the platform during the 2016 election in a lot of members were dissatisfied they were speaking to the lawyers and not the founders of the company's mark sucker berg has a ready been called to the judiciary and by u.k.
regulators as well. they want an explanation as to why how you could scoop up all this data from people's friend network with nobody knowing about it and what facebook will putoi in place to make sure this doesn't happen again. >>host: the democratic line good morning. >> caller: good morning. could the young lady verify if the incident or who came up with the app that she referred to for the personality quiz or test was a russian professor? and also if she could in my msl littletl bit more on the russian connection with cambridge analytic a and how they kept asking for their data and the trump
administration obviously i mean the trump campaign obviouslyio had some dealings with cambridge analytic as well and then they coincided which probably left a good case for collusion in the 2016 election. >> the professor you are referencing at the university of cambridge it is my understanding he doesn't have any ties to russian t government although that hasn't been explored he is still working as far as i understand but there has been some reporting that he did meet with the russian oil company but c their defense is he has clients around the globe they do work for commercial enterprises as politicians and they are arguing there was nothing politicall about the
conversation but that will be subject to further investigation i'm sure as they increasingly come into the spotlight, . >> the independent line go ahead. >> first i would like to say it is amazing that it didn't prevent the hillary campaign in wisconsin and pennsylvania with a horrible ad campaign but then we're told james calmly lost the election than russia now we are told cambridge analytic how lost the campaign so when will we finally admit hillary lost the campaign for hillary? >> do you have a question for thesk guest? >> i guess that was a statement. >> i think that is the wrong way to look at it that cambridge analytic unlawfulan campaign for hillary the big
scandal is how freely our data as american is bought and traded by companies without any regulation that people are accustomed to their data being sold for advertising purposes if you visit a website for a clothing store now that shows up on your facebook page later but it doesn't really bother you but with that same technology can be used to influence your choice of president or influence democracy in some way should bother people that this information is freely bought and sold it in some cases passed on to entities that were never supposed to be a part of that to beginin with so i don't think this is a conversation about the election frankly but data privacy and security. >> caller: good morning.
has h she checked back through the obama administration and clinton administration? as the campaign tries to use the information that obama had gotten that i understand they wanted to give it to them. >> i thank you are getting at that every campaign uses data even clinton was working with google and twitter as was the trump campaign they have been advertising for years and they realize that digital campaigns are much more cig effective and cost-effective so yes all campaigns gather reams of data and in 2012 obama use the full two scoop of data on their friend networkri on facebook and
that is a question we have to ask ourselves are we okay with that? andd if not which side is doing it more or behaving at the that are the american people okay with a new process and political campaigning. >> on the front page of the wall street journal that facebook shares posted the larges percentage decline in four years dropping losing 36.4 in billion market value with news of cambridge analytic a and in the editorial section in the new york times is saying facebook cannot police itself calling on congress to strengthen privacyre laws in the wake of this incident. leading the charge in congress.
>> i was a senator warner has been out front on this issue one of the biggest critics of the tech companies not just with regard to this but also the ads sold to the internet research agency the election propaganda group so they introduce the honest ads act that would require a more transparent digital ad but they say paid for by donald trump for hillary clinton no such regulationidor exists for digital ads they are trying to introduce that but of course the companies are trying to promising asby the editorial states if whether it can't police itself but even the u.k. and eu are way ahead of america with privacy protection the u.k.
has data privacy laws that they have to request data and allow them to ask for that data to be erased or corrected in new regulation is coming so i was 80 united states is following those across the wate water. >> who is alex stay most getting attention? >> he was head of security for facebook previously at yahoo which he oversaw a major data breach news broke yesterday he on facebook he is leaving and that isn't exactly true that there is a different role on election security so we will have to see if he does stayat on or if the accurate was
one -- the reporting was accurate. >> first of all my laughs have knowledge of all things computers is amazing the first time i got caught in school i am amazed what i don't want people to be when i write down on my diary on the computer can be known to everybody but my second question is aboutue the elections because i read an article that i didn't understand saying that they were looking at packets of information from russia from the trump tower that was then
sent to betsy divorce computers have you heard anything about that? i'm sorry i'm so technically stupid i cannot explain it but that there is a connection that takes you to an article that some technical geek says this is how you do it the packets of information could be added onto regular bank transmissions. >> is that something that you covered? sure which exactly you are referring, to but if any connection to russia as far as we know from luke oil that russian oil giant that is something they explained to say they do business around the world i would have to look
into what you are mentioning. >> next caller go ahead. >> caller: when it comes to things like the arab spring it was viewed as a positive thing that social media was used to enact changes but as far as the last administration with their i campaign, it was innovative that they use social media to organize so how can we have such a different reaction to the trump administration used van and to secure the same type of resources and utilize them? >> you are absolutely right it is a new way to look at a process that is not new but was used by the obama campaign
and during the arab spring. but the fact we saw so much divisiveness online during the 2015 election with polarization that people started to see the ugly side of what that can accomplish it did seem great when you didn't see the trolls and the thoughts like we did with the electioni also it has grown substantiallyta even since 2012 facebook h has 1 billion users the percentage of money they campaigns are spending on mine is much higher and really problematical sales of advertising to russian propaganda groups with the molar indictment with the intentional efforts by these trolls to pit americans against each other even on facebook advertising real life
events trying to get people to go out and protest each other planning protest just to get americans to fight eachan other if you see those same tools were good in the past now manipulated for bad now that is why people are turning a more critical eye on thesee platforms. >> one of the comments from cambridge they have been responding to the various stories. >> we are not alone to use data for strategies a lot of companies from researchers to universities use data in marketing and they went on to tweet yesterday if it is scrutiny then so be it our talk tactics get information on target customers but no facebook data was used for the
election. >> i think that is a week response because not only are receiving that may have held onto the data although they promise to get rid of it but a lot of these are us-based companies and cambridge are british company that does work all around the world that we haven't mentioned yet is part of the investigation where a reporter opposed as a wealthy client intro longer hoping to get candidates elected and with this undercover video you have cambridge analytic talkingca openly about tactics like extortion and bribery and paying people off to film it doesn't have to be true but just believable another said it is wrong to win elections
on facts it is all emotion some people have concern rightly so that even though data mining is a common practice this company that is openly bragging on video about using underhanded tactics of people have a right to be concerned how this particular company is using their data. >> they have also responded to that which is subject of plenty of stories based in the report is edited scripted grossly misrepresents the nature of the conversation how the company conductsdu its business that is in response with wired magazine and with us a few more minutes to answer your questions about this story.. south wales new york democratic line. >> caller. i am a democrat in the motorcyclist. i am very concerned about
autonomous vehicles. going forward i see these vehicles collecting a lot of data on the users and that could very well be what is used and what are your views on that moving forward? >> that is a smart question it is the internet of things from your microwave to refrigerator is connected and all of that is information on the people who use that you have no way to know where that and that a lot of people don't realize there are firms who sellfoio information when you buy because they have partners with major credit card companies it can be bought by a political campaign or an advertiser so our attention should be much more than
politics but applied to all companies whether autonomousis vehicles or the internet connected refrigerator. >> independent line. >> caller: people that are running campaigns use the add that those that were put out there by russia and makes the people look very stupid because i have seen some of those ads my sister had one on her phone about a man having a sex change that makes us look stupid. a lot of people said they use them but they were put out there by russia i think they need to let the ads be out there and let people make their own decision. >> you are right and the
content that they were putting out there were trying to reflect the worst parts of us to choose an issue whether something like refugees or black lives matter and set up pages to take the most extreme view on both of those issues then try to get people to fight with each other so that is why people said again and again maybe not electing donald trump that the main goal was with any electorate. >> does facebook it feel like it has its arms around how many ads were created and paid for or spread on the social media platform? does congress have access to that? >> facebook has turned over the ads i think it has a
fairly good idea how many were purchased on to grant but they are not saying how many people were closer following the accounts because thehe internet research agency purchased the ad but the ballpark was to create a safe book account or a page that they have very real followers suggest recently facebook has never come out to say how many followers the russian instagram account had and they still haven't they say they haven't run those numbers so i still think there is a lot we will continue to find out how peoplele were enmeshed in this propaganda. >> last call from kalamazoo michigan republican. >> caller: i find it so most
hilarious the democrats were in charge of everything so the security that they were in charge of they were fine with what was going on then once hillary started to lose now are excited it seems a littles strange. >> it wasn't until last fall that facebook really acknowledged they had these ads and people had used the platform in google and twitter acknowledged it also so this was not known during the obama administration but you are right for a long time silicon valleyey was the darling of the business world and not yet big tack but still seen entrepreneurs with startups that scaled so fast and i think the public perception has churned quite sharply in part because of the fact we
had blinders on for much of the 2016 election how their platforms were manipulated and it was pretty crazy to think they had anything to do with the elections but now they are coming to terms with several and the power that they had. >> senior writer with wired magazine you can find her on twitter. we appreciate your time. >> thank you minutes.