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tv   After Words David Corn Michael Isikoff Russian Roulette  CSPAN  April 14, 2018 10:00pm-11:01pm EDT

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>> host: david corn and michael isikoff authors of the most recent book "russian roulette." gemeasky david first how did you come up with the title? guess who you are asking the right person on this one. not that i came out up with that but we struggled through a lot of choices we are going to reveal that in the middle of that process my 17-year-old daughter at the time said dad, the inside story of putin's war on america and the election of donald trump. >> host: dishy get royalties? >> guest: in fact today she negotiated with me her terms and she wanted a subscription to "the new york times" crossword puzzle. i said i am getting off easy here. >> host: everybody there reads this book will have their own answer to this question but i think it's important to ask the
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authors, select the ask you "russian roulette" is a book about. >> guest: it's about what happened in the 2016 election how a foreign power russia intervened in our election and in a much more sophisticated way than anybody realized at the time and the impact it had on the election itself. see the. >> guest: also there's a lot of back story. you might call it overrides of the united states and russia in the development on the russian side of a strategy and a plan to basically wage information warfare on the west notches united states but western democracy to undermine democracy in the west. >> host: you guys came up with a very readable digestible book
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and something that i spend an other spent hours on and testimony. i wish i would have read the book but it was very readable but i noticed in the beginning and end the book answered ronald --donald trump and the introduction is the afterward but really the start of the book is a 2013 miss universe pageant in moscow. >> guest: if you are looking for a moment that the trump russia story comes together, you have donald trump in moscow and he is there to preside over the miss universe pageant but what is his real agenda? is it to build the trump tower in moscow and secondarily although a part of that is to meet lad amir putin to cultivate a relationship with vladimir
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putin. >> host: you almost describe it as a plan. guess what he was obsessed with getting a meeting with putin and hoping that putin would come to the miss universe pageant and he was told that putin would be calling and he's only there for two days and one night. the afternoon of the pageant itself he's asking everybody around him is putin coming, have you heard from putin yet? he's pretty much an excessively focused on meeting with putin. why? this is one of the big mystery that pervades around the book. clearly there's an element of autocrat. psychologically he likes the way putin runs his country and he would aspire to win our pet--to run our country the way putin runs his country. >> host: that was not his first attempt.
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>> guest: writing new getting the green light would be the one way to ensure the project could go forward. >> host: if you are out there criticizing putin it's not going to help you get a project pass in moscow. and you are right for 30 years he'd been trying to get a project of one kind or another in moscow and it didn't happen and he hooked up with the russian oligarch named after arrow. guess who they are guiding him to rush them through the bureaucracy so to speak of russia so how did that all unfold? >> guest: it's interesting because part of this, it's all very serious but it's described in the book how a british manager named rob goldstone who
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is a bit of the character and the pop singer and azerbaijani pop singer who is the son of the russian oligarchs. he's trying to figure out how to juice up his career. his day job is working for his dad's development company but he wants to be a pop star. so they figure out how to do this and they hook up with the miss universe contest which is owned by donald trump at the time and they basically say you should bring the pageant to moscow. mike has called these guys the rosencrantz and gil burstein characters. closely you're stealing my line there. >> guest: and they managed to negotiate this deal between miss universe to hold it in
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moscow. we talked a moment ago about how to build a tower in needed to have putin's visit--permission but to do anything in moscow you know trump had to hook up with an oligarch and in this case the oligarch was friendly to putin. it's all part of his corrupt regime. he starts putting out immediately in may of 2013 will putin be my new bff when i bring the contest to moscow? you have to remember this time there's not much of a question of what type of guy he was. he he had been out of power for couple of years. >> host: medvedev had been president for several years. >> guest: there were chechnya and human rights abuses. he has passed a law basically making it illegal to talk about.
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this was before the annexation of crimea into eventually ukraine and it all comes to putin whether he would use friend and whether he could make a business deal. guess that there's this after story to this miss universe pageant. it's an entertaining introduction to the world of donald trump and the world of vladimir putin and how they interacted but one thing that people don't appreciate when they are looking for a motive by hind the whole trump russia story at least from trump's perspective trump signed a deal or a letter of intent was signed >> host: that's the closest he has gotten to seeing the development happen. >> guest: yes. it was a formalized arrangement to do it. ivanka trump flies to moscow in february of 2014 to scout
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potential sites. what is happening is-- >> guest: this is why need the co-author at all times. he intervenes in ukraine and the united states responds with its sanctions including a russian majority of banks that going to finance the trump tower project and the deal collapses and rob goldstone in the book as saying he believes that's what killed the deal. it was the imposition of sanctions so if you are looking for at least an explanation of why trump not just for sympathetic to putin but hostile to the idea of sanctions on russia--. >> host: he killed his
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business deal. gest yeah e. keil-- >> guest: heat killed his deal >> host: you talk about some of the characters in the book and the circle of donald trump. one of them was brought goldstone. he was in pr and there's a part in the early part of the book donald trump tells him something about his future plan that is very instrumental for what comes later. >> is in november of 2013 and we talk about how while he was in moscow trump was obsessed with meeting putin and he was only there for a limited time only a day or so. the night before he flew when he attended a big gala celebration for dole graham's 95th birthday.
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he is one of the leaders who also had been a birther like donald trump had been an i don't know of that was the bonding nature but anyway they got to moscow a day or so later than he expected to be and while he was there he ran into goldstone and attempting the billy graham franklin graham event. >> host: you quote donald trump's saying there's something i'm planning down the road and it's really important. attending this event was really important because of his future plans. are you guys think basically at that point in 2013 that donald trump is planning to run for president? >> guest: we knew he had talked about it a lot in 2011 about running in 2012.
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also there's another story or epilogue to this. even after the trump tower deal collapses goldstone goes to trump and trump towers and we talk about it as the first trump tower meeting that nobody knew about and tell her book came out and they leave trump their and trump says to emmett maybe next time you'll be singing in the white house so he's telegraphing his plans to run for president to aguilera tied in with the putin connected the oligarch and another point on the significance of this you guys in the intelligence committee in you in the press spent a lot of
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time on the trump tower but who set that up? goldstone and aguilera. the e-mails are pretty clear. these cast of characters run through the story. >> guest: that first trump tower meeting in january of 2015 trump is sharing his ideas and the notion that he might meet with aguilera. his dad eric aguilera who is tied in with the structure of moscow. it's kind of like an early signal that trump is considering running and 15 months or so later when the second meeting happened and the author of the turret on hillary clinton is presented to the campaign, jared kushner and paul manafort comes
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initially from eric aguilera, his father who says of je attorney general has information that he wants to--so you have rebels of the russian government probably while at the time trump is securing the nomination. now he's signaling. whether they have dirt or not the russians are signaling for the chung campaign we want to help you. we want to do it secretly and it's coming through a channel of trump trust. his former business partner with whom he made millions of dollars with ms. universe. so it's not just like coming out of the blue. these are basically his people in moscow. i think that's one reason why donald trump jr. and the others took it seriously and it's
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incredibly high-level. posted the book is full of great and yet but it gives you a sense of donald trump's minds of going back to that meeting in 2015 when eminent goldstone walked into his office.trump is actually listening to a rap song they try to explain to him that things were good and he says what? >> guest: visas who cares. i got 50 million hits on youtube that's how trump measure success. >> the idea that any press is good press. people talk to him about what he cares about the most. >> he was contemplating running for president and he has these russian oligarchs and others around him but at the same time russia and putin are coming
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coming--becoming more aggressive in terms of active measures. >> guest: that's an old cold war term. of course we did similar things to them but basically it was information planting disinformation for the purpose of exploiting political divisions with the country. the soviets did this for years, planting stories about how the cia was behind the aids virus or developing biological weapons in vietnam. there was a long history of this which had kind of died down but was revived by putin and his top people during this period. one of the most important parts is to reveal how the u.s.
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government actually have a source inside the kremlin when all this was developing. they were incredibly revealing insights including the contempt for which putin and the top people viewed obama and his white house often in very crude in racist terms. the most significant insight source provided was about putin's plans for information warfare against the west, cyber hacks, disinformation, the undermining of developing relationships with other entities like in france with marine le pen and her right-wing party. this was all laid out in the
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cables from the u.s. entity to washington and the story is it didn't get the attention it should have. >> also you talk about an article that didn't get much attention but the--and to quote from the book on page 43 is set in february of 2013 the chief of staff of russia's armed forces published in article in an obscure journal abdicating that russia adapts military strategies to the modern world. it received little attention from the u.n. national security establishment the when they published a translation u.s. officials took notice. here was a russian military leader presenting a doctor in the how russia would engage and
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do battle with the u.s.. >> guest: toward the future of the war would not be between fighter jet versus fighter jet. would be to wage a war. you were talking about information warfare, propaganda and misinformation and cyber attacks to. to me what is the most chilling about what he's describing their is the doctrine is that he talked about the battle of the future would be waged by exploiting the population of your foe. that means the division and the clinical conflicts and the trouble of your enemy and if you look at what happened on facebook and in the social media campaign and what they did in terms of asking the dnc the john
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podesta e-mails all those moves were designed to fuel and to increase the intensity of divisions already within our society. they targeted wedge issues of race, immigration. they got involved in a way of trying take the bernie sanders wing of your party in the hillary clinton wing of your party and make it more difficult for the democratic party overall. you have the data points resource that might just mentioned. you have the doctrine and the story by "time" magazine that in the spring of 2015 there was a military intelligence officer saying we have plan for dancing
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against hillary clinton. reporter from "the news york times" in june of 2014 writes about the internet researching the troll farm and saeb petersburgh and in december of 2015 he said you know all those trolls i wrote about over a year ago they are now supporting donald trump. you put all those points together and looking back in hindsight there were several strong indications in the public records that they were aiming for this amount all of our reporting that covered his internal meetings with chairman whitehouse and the staff people. they had no clue. they had not put all this together and told the national security staff something big was afoot.
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>> host: you write about how the initial reaction was one of well there was something different about this approach different from the past that it was similar to what north korea did to sony. why was this different? >> guest: cyberattack has become a hallmark of the era and including political cyber attacks remember in 2008 the chinese attacked the computer systems of both the obama and mccain campaigns but that was political cyber espionage. host that they were going and looking. >> guest: they were going in and looking at who would be the next security adviser in how would he or she be the world and what would they likely do? this is what intelligence agencies are supposed to do.
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>> host: and what the nsa does routinely trying to understand the adversary and understand how its government works. but what was different was that this wasn't just espionage. this was a version of information warfare because what the russians did after getting into the dnc and getting into john podesta's e-mails which gave them access to the communication of the clinton campaign they were using it for effect. the critical moment comes on the e-of the democratic convention when the wikileaks starts to mask dump the internal dnc e-mails that have been collected by the russian intelligence services and caused this mess deflection. what happened in the early days of the democratic convention?
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debbie wasserman schultz the dnc chair has to resign. the clinton and the sanders campaigns are at each other's throats. >> host: everyone is angry at each other. >> guest: this was all because of what the russians were doing which was a moment in american politics. >> host: and all of your research and your interviews did you get a sense for why now? and because of the advent of social media why? >> guest: that's a good question. there are two components to this. mike talked about how we have the return of--and that generated putin's increasing adversarial position to the west we traced this back a little bit in the book. he reasserts his control over the russian government.
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after the arab spring when the united states has launched a military extension with allies and he is beginning to think well it looks like they are instituting a regime change. >> host: he thinks that he could be next. guess who he thinks he could the next 10 at the end of 2011 there are legislative elections in russia. his party wins, no surprise but there are accounts of massive fraud throughout the election and there are demonstrations. tens of thousands of russians are coming out. hillary clinton comes out and basically criticizes the u.s. and putin immediately blames her for instigating. so this is you are covertly
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trying to overthrow him. one of the interesting things is we talk to people who are high up in the obama white house and the foreign-policy apparatus and when you look at libya and the actions bear and their criticisms of the election and you look at 2013 and 2014 when the obama administration tries to establish a new government during the ukraine takeover per putin says this is a plot with me and the mighty russia. they didn't really believe obama was trying to overthrow them but they came to the realization that he had a paranoid view of the world and an expansionist view about what he wants to do with russia. he did leave he had to fight back against the west and
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undermine the liberal western order that he felt was in a sense attacking him. >> host: in his mind this was a defensive action. >> it may be going on the offense against prestige and then russia is not a great country when it comes to economic might around the world. what social media does and what cyber does is it creates a--so we are more wired than they are so that means we are more vulnerable. this is a battlefront you can fight with those toe-to-toe. >> you also mentioned earlier on that there's a woman that worked at the agency that comes forward
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>> guest: was a russian whistleblower that helped expose the internet research agency and david mentioned adrian chen they wrote the story in "new york" magazine put the first tories were in the russian press. there was a brave woman valerie babb check who saw what was going on inside this troll farm and saw how cronies were being created and how false propaganda was being put out on social media. one of the key points and the braking points for her was boris he is probably the most charismatic opposition leader whose in the shadows of the kremlin and 2015 and there were widespread stories about what happened in the case has never been resolved. she's order to put out that this
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is a ukrainian hit job and she knows it's nonsense. she says that to go public with this and she reaches out and she says i can't take this. i work for troll farm and i have to expose it. the first tories come back back--kamal. it was in the american press. was in the russian press. the warning signs were all there guess to what we tried to do in the book and failed was to find someone in the fbi, cia who was on to the story. i just figured having somebody who was ringing the bell and saying hey we are not paying enough attention and we have indications prior to 9/11 that they were analysts and some
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people who sought more clearly than the bush-cheney white house did in the clinton white house two. we have got to find this person. that would be a great story and maybe that person--but we failed this was outside of the fbi at this point. it's not catching on. we used the phrase in the book that is the 9/11 commission. they said it's a failure of imagination. i think the intelligence community failed to see this and fail to tell the people. obama and everybody else. >> that's important because i
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think oftentimes we don't appreciate the brave journalism that's going on in other countries. we can't assume this monolith. >> guest: especially in russia where the stakes are very high in the consequences are very high. >> these are journalists who have given their lives in opposition to a lot of policies out there and he described how this woman comes forward and a russian friend picks it up and runs with it. let me ask you all, who is the hero in the story? i have to say i didn't seem to pick up necessarily. it's not congress. >> guest: it's sad because there are no heroes. there were people who saw it more clearly than others at the time particularly in the summer of 2015 and 2016 but you know look the clinton campaign was trying to call attention as much
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as they could. >> host: they were challenged on that narrative when they tried to make that argument. >> guest: of course. what was driving them were the e-mails that were getting dumped which was unflattering for hillary clinton and her inner circle. the clinton foundation came into play and the imaginations within the clinton campaign and the wall street speeches. so was hard for the clinton campaign to credibly make the point the press that they were the victims because it looked like quite frankly-- >> guest: we describe in the book it's anxiety driven. they do see what's happening and they do believe and i think early on he proves to be true
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that the russians are attacking them. they are the target. you say that they are waiting anxiously today after day anticipating this dump of e-mails. >> guest: at the dump at the democratic convention they know the e-mails have been hacked as well and probably others. they are waiting for not the next shoe but the next shoe store to dump it to fall on them and they are trying to take this seriously. they are doing it as an act of deflection. for the price it's a big story but selling it is very tough. i do fault also the media and the reporters because the story was out there from early beginning that this was underway
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there were political journalist covering the campaign and the political consequences of the e-mails but it was very slow to pick up on this especially after the white house in early two for said yes it is the russians doing it. the problem was you overcall it came out on the day that a certain e-mail was released and it was the day they started leaking the podesta e-mail. >> host: i believe that was october 7. >> guest: which also happened to be the first day of vladimir putin's happy 64th. >> host: we will get to that part in a minute but it also gave an assessment in this book is very much a fact-based account based on your research and public information that
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there really is not much of you guys on the soapbox here and i've heard over the speak about the subject very passionately. how hard was this do not get in there and really editorialize in the book? there's a little bit. >> guest: i think this is first and foremost we wanted to tell the story and we wanted to tell the facts. we obviously have our own perspectives on this but the power and the strength of it is that it lays it out and we are not carrying water for anyone in in this book. we get the very cold analysis of the obama white house and his failure to respond and then not they tie themselves into trying to figure out what to do. >> host: the clinton campaign was disappointed.
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people within the obama white house were disappointed with the failure of the president to respond more forcefully. they were people inside saying hey we have got to push back. >> host: in his defense he was worried that he'd be trying to tip the election. >> guest: president obama did not want to be perceived as political and there is his own self-image they are. i don't want to be out there and be accused by my foes of trying to tilt the election. >> host: and donald trump wasn't going to. >> guest: we tell that story too about how the president was trying to come up with a bipartisan approach. i don't know if i like the word medaling intervention. he was hoping he could get paul
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ryan in mitch mcconnell to come together and these were the steps the country had to take. we describe in the book that paul ryan was somewhat empathetic to trying to work together in mitch mcconnell gave been adamant no. he was also boxed in because his candidate is the nominee and donald trump is out there saying this isn't happening or it's a hoax. or this is part of rigging the election. even after on august 17 as the republican nominee he got an intelligence briefing and in the book james clapper the director of national intelligence confirms to him at that meeting all the attacking going on and
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coosa for 2.0 one wikileaks he told--michael flynn is in the room and chris christie is in the room too. it has no impact at all not on trump, not on the campaign. when the statement comes at an earlier toper that it's a hault just a hoax. one thing we do say in the book and we may be editorializing perhaps is that if you look at what trump is saying at this point in the campaign in a way he's aiding and abetting in the russian effort. the way i like to think of it and mike might think of it in a different way if you are told there's a robbery going on in the bank and people are walking past you saying there's no robbery here. that can only help the bank
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robber. i doubt very much donald trump had a meeting with russian agents to figure out what documents worst being hacked and released by wikileaks. this is a cooperative arrangement. he was helping them and if you are moscow in you are watching this while the campaign is also reaching out to you george papadopoulos if i'm putin and i'm running this operation trump is not unhappy with us. >> host: i want to ask you about this now because the country has really been quite honestly torn up for while now over the question of collusion. whether donald trump were his campaign associates colluded or conspired with the russians and the election. if somebody was going to make the case of collusion what would
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it be based on? >> guest: first of all to some degree the debate has been very clouded by the use--guccifer. we can define it the way we want to. i agree we found--we found no smoking gun evidence that there was an explicit plan to work together. i think the aiding and abetting metaphor is another one to use. it was a conspiracy to attack our election by the russians in trump and his people they did it in many different ways and they could not have been acting necessarily in coordination but it is kind of strange when you take a step back and look at all the various connections that
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they had with russians are russian cutouts. we discuss trump and his anxious and doing a business deal. >> host: you're talking about carter page. >> paul manafort the campaign chairman. >> host: who was also a victim of the dumping. >> guest: when she finds out that manafort is the chairman of the trump campaign he has been a russian stooge for years. she knew this because manafort had been a very major presence in ukraine as the consultant to the pro russia political party and yanukovich the pro russian president of russia and ukraine collected for that.
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as the chief assistant constantine colin nick we write about in the book who was a known russian and colleges agent in the recent filing by robert mueller the fbi says he has ties to the russian military intelligence agency. >> host: paul manafort ends up --a russian oligarchs. >> guest: it's something we are learning more about as days go on. he had been a business partner of a guy who was the oligarchs who was as close to putin as anybody and also blocked him from the country because of the expected ties to organized crime. manafort and deripaska had a
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falling out. deripaska thought he dug him in the deal. he's being hounded by this putin connected oligarch and how this could respond? he start e-mailing the trusted deputy there. manafort responds saying maybe we can offer deripaska private briefings on the campaign. >> host: is trying to leverage his position. >> guest: he's not just offering information to their pasta. deripaska and starting june 14 which is the day the "washington post" revealed that the dnc had been hacked and right away the
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news reports that the russians are behind it. at that point in time and from that point on you are talking about giving information to the russians and reaching out to the russians like george papadopoulos was and you are agreeing to help people who have strong evidence that is not conclusive yet who are attacking our election. it's not just giving information to business associates. it's giving information that can go right to russian intelligence into the top. >> host: just to finish up on your questions all these people and i mentioned anna ford, michael flynn in december of 2015 and the celebratory tenth anniversary for vladimir putin
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at the dinner. carter page the member of the foreign-policy advisory team who got invited to moscow. he criticized and had meetings with various russian figures and got strong insights into the russian thinking. george papadopoulos another advisory member whose meeting with these kremlin cutouts in london who are offering him dirt on hillary clinton the form of thousands of e-mails that the russians supposedly had. ..
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back and with carter page to entice them to better relation because it turns out the pain -- the campaign not just better relation but what is called the author record communications channel. first he tries to set off -- set up a meeting and then they
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say if you continue with your contact said he tries to have a backdoor communication. so if i'm the russian now i say this is big. we are happy to talk to him make people forget when the fbi begins its investigation in jul july 2016 they know nothing about at the time it is counterintelligence. from the fbi prospectively all of this they are necessarily investigating collusion at that point but see what the russians are up to howard making overtures to all the people in the trump campaign? and cultivating relationships
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with one particular campaign? that a foreign government is waiting into the power structur structure. >> but is this a hacking operation? and john brennan the cia chief as the realization and then to try to figure what's going on without a lot of shelling -- sharing of information that
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they are the victims of a hacking they don't call debbie wasserman scholz. >> they go to this low level it guy they call the help desk. [laughter] and literally are referred to the outside contractor who is not cybersecurity guy who you call when you have trouble with your e-mail system. >> why do they do that? they've got lots of people they have to notify.
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>> and with that perspective from 2008 if this is cyberespionage okay. >> or the intelligence gatherin gathering. >> it did not go to the top of that to do this that is something the fbi should have to explain better also communications with the dnc were rather pathetic as well nobody informs the top brass for month months. >> when the dnc hires a third bender crowd but even their advice early on is not to alert the actors that they know. >> so with cybersecurity they call in september 2015 and not until april of 2016 that the
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dnc it people figure out what it is after multiple phone calls and e-mails with the fbi and dnc. and immediately they say you can't change your behavior because it will take us a while to figure out the russian hackers it turns out there were two groups not even doing this jointly so if you change your behavior they will make it harder for us to block them out. and it takes them six weeks to figure out how to shut down the system to make sure the russians are gone. that is part of the tragic story that in ethically.
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, they are still coming and going and grabbing material and much of a material that caused the problem of the democratic convention with dnc officials not clinton campaign people by the officials with bernie sanders and his campaign that they conclude lost the race it wasn't getting out pretty typical political conflict another moved to the general they rally behind ellery they were not ready to do that there was a lot of complaining and it doesn't really happen. but all that material happened in those six weeks and later dumped and that causes the biggest problems for the dnc who later tell us that they are so frustrated they did not shut down right away from the
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cybersecurity people said we can't. >> i want to ask you when people talk collusion it often comes back to the trump tower meeting, christopher steele .ca tell us about that. >> we discussed the trump tower meeting earlier discussing what is public and the offer to the trump campaign but that sends a signal. through the dossier i will be waiting for your report and judgment but clearly it had a role there is no question to dismiss that because christopher steele did have a track record with both the fbi
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and the state department. >> reputable british intelligence officer. >> paid for by the clinton campaign i don't think that was clearly understood by the fbi you could fault them for not asking more aggressive questions at the time how it is christopher steele did what he did. but in clearly the most sensational allegations that got all the attention that we point out in the book that christopher steele really does even stand by that point he says it is 5050 talking about the golden shower with a prostitute in the hotel room but in broad strokes he was onto something which was real which was a concerted russian effort to influence the
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election and forge ties and work with the trump campaign. so those details have to be cooperated with -- corroborated that he came to that conclusion in june 2016 which predate the fbi investigation so he had caught wind of something so with that first report june 2016 how the russians are trying to cultivate trump and we didn't know this at the time and time for us just to get in the book but first while trump was campaigning for president he and michael : were trying to
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negotiate another business deal in moscow a secret deal for another trump tower that was brought to them with a fellow trump had worked with in the past so step back and think about that while running for president and is refusing again and again to criticize putin with all of the media entities at that time was trying to negotiate a deal that could only go forward with putin while he was running for president they never told the public that it has been reported but the implication of that, that is collusion in a way and trump says later i had nothing to do with russia that he was negotiating a deal he signed a letter of intent.
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>> october 7, 201616 i read that as the emblematic of the campaign. >> what happened? >> that is when it all comes together after debating in talking about this for weeks they put out the public statement that yes the russians are interfering in the election when people from the highest levels of the kremlin they say this will be a bombshell unprecedented statement to dominate the news for the rest of the campaign but what happens within one hour "access hollywood" tape cable nonstop trump talks about women and all of that and after an hour of that the e-mails are dumped by wikileaks one of the most extraordinary days in american politics and it was all
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invited we are putin's birthday. >> and donald trump with the election in november the investigation still continues the house and the senate will maybe not the house but the senate but let me ask you this important question is this the last time we will see russia involved in the election? where do we go from here? you make before we have the next presidential election we have interim elections in 2018 what didn't get attention at the time was that the russian operation not just focus on the presidential campaign for the group that supports that was injurious they actually
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influence and to that if they care to they know how to do this again and the house election should be more prone and susceptible. it is very easy to dump and create ads at the end. there is a lot of ways to screw around that is the money in this political season so until we see a concerted effort with a priority with the federal government i think everybody should worry about
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eating in 2018 before we get to 2020. >> we will definitely remain vigilant congratulations on a great book david cameron testifies about global security. unfoldsn, where history daily. in 1979, c-span was created as a public service by america's cable television companies and today we continue to bring you unfiltered coverage of congress, the white house, the supreme court, and public policy events aroundington, d.c., and the country. the country. the five. [inaudible conversatio


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