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tv   Kathleen Belew Bring the War Home  CSPAN  May 13, 2018 11:10am-12:02pm EDT

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movement, that neo-nazi pageantry, dress up in ss uniforms we talked about. you was also looking for more members. that's what this comes down to. it comes down to block recruiting. i have 15 guys, you have 20 guys, let's have35 guys. they were able to put aside all their ideological differences and for a group of people who all exist in that one scene on the far right, they have a lot of differences. they can agree on very little but they still managed to get together somehow . there's an alliance of sorts. >> watch this and other programs online [inaudible] >> welcome to politics and prose, thank you for coming out on this thursday evening. my name is and i'm a part of the events staff at the store. this is just one of almost, or over 500 events that we
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had politics and prose during the year. but this one is, this one should be a good event. let me introduce our speaker, let me go over a few housekeeping rules. one now is a perfect time to silence any cell phones or devices that could go off during the event . they would be a distraction if they were to go off and also, they would appear on our recording area speaking of the recording , if you have a question or a question and answer portion, come up to our question mike that's set up right here and speak clearly into the microphone. that will help us have a flow to our reporting.also, once the event is over, for your chairs and lean them against something sturdy or solid.
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that helps us cleanup the store when the event is over to our office, kathleen belew is assistant professor of us history at the university of chicago. in her research she uncovered the various trends and patterns of supremacist groups. these groups are highly organized, although it may not seem so from how they are portrayed. often called lone wolves, these individuals have committed various acts of domestic terrorism are part of a larger phenomenon. >> bring the war home argues the greater awareness of both the effect and growth of their military organizations. within american society. >> white power groups like the ku klux klan, skinheads, neo-nazis, etc. gain new recruits and disaffected veterans, active-duty personnel and supporters won the big us and it is
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involvement in vietnam. the actions of these groups range from fascination, armed robbery, weapons trafficking and much more. america is new to the presence of these, their attitude towards the government has changed. >> and bring the war home, laurel argues it was after the vietnam war when white supremacist groups fought against government interest instead of for them. why and how they made the shift is something we can explain. without further ado, here captain kathleen belew. [applause] >> hi, how's the volume back there? ? hello. that better? okay. hello, i'm politics and prose on here to present this new book coming to you from chicago where this is still winter so thank you for having sunshine.
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it's a thing i've forgotten about. so my book bring the war home is not like ourmovement is for mission in 1979 to the oklahoma city bombing . the event formed with an event very much like what happened in charlottesville last august. on the 1979 in greenville north carolina, a united group of neo-nazi and planned on under the name the united racist front opened fire on a communist anti-klan rally and killed five people. how i got to this book. greensboro a truth and reconciliation commission in 2005 and over and over again, klansmen and neo-nazis to tell their stories and what they kept saying was i feel communist in vietnam, i would entitle communists here. to me this was a profound statement. it reflects the collapse of, and homefront, wartime and peacetime, of enemies foreign and domestic ãi began to look at the massive archives produced by this movement, the idea turned out to be a
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central and critical theme. the vietnam war worked as the glue that held together activists with who would otherwise have different beliefs. it was the thing that shape and amplify their violence and an area thatthey use to make sense of their world . it also allowed me to realize that despite misconceptions, white power was a social movement united men, women and children across all regions of the country and across many different class and educational backgrounds. now, why white power? some people use the phrase white nationalist to talk about this movement this makes many people think first about the category of nationalists . most people think about the category of aryan nation. my book is not about people that are seeking to defend the nation. my book is about people who envision a transnational white quality. achieved through violence race war. and all en route they applauded illegal actions and
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regularly targeted civilians in other words, nationalism should not be confused here with sort of overzealous patriotism,that's not what this is about. this is a revolutionary movement . these activists carried out activities using strategies to be designed to hide what they were doing. and the movement included groups ranging from klansmen to neo-nazis, white suffragiststo skinheads, radical tax resisters and militiamen to white separatists . theycall themselves , and i referred to as the white power movement . the historical context that incubating this movement shares a lot in common with our present . white power was formed at the end of the troubles was 1970s in the wake of the lost vietnam war during a moment of profound distress in institutions, profound loss of faith in the state. there was worry about immigration and how it would reshape the country, about jobs being lost through farm
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foreclosures and factories. and this concern of course sounds familiar, many social movements activated these issues in the 70s and 80s. >> so what why power did was a formal unification of plan and neo-nazi groups in 1979. and over revolutionary current in 1983 activists declared war on the federal government and then an outgrowth phase into militias in the early 1990s. the white power movement reached its most mass casualties today in the bombing of oklahoma citywhich killed 168 people including 19 young children .>> now, our although many believe systems are used divided these access, federal several strong forces cemented them together. my research says thousands of pages of documents part proving to this startling and unexpected origin story which is the paramilitary aftermath of the vietnam war as a major force in uniting and sustaining white power
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activism. i'm talking about is not only the loose experience of vietnam veterans although there are a handful of vietnam veterans are influential to the formation and shaping of this movement, especially in its early stages but i'm talkingabout the narrative of the war. it had to do with the reliability , lack of faith in the government, or in horror. and what this area does, it enables intergroup alliances such that people can stand in the room together who couldn't before like neo-nazis and klansmen. increased military movement and escalated impact of white power of violence so the title of my book bring the war home is taken from a popular essay written by a clan leader in 1973. it calls our attention to the way white power is related to other kinds of violence . bring it on home as he wrote is a liberalist extension of the violence of warfare in domestic and civilian space . so it's author lewis theme was a clan activist throughout his life it
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referred to do different wars. the one he fought in vietnam and the evolution he hoped to wait at home. the white power activist also engaged in other words including mercenary interventions in latin america and south africa and the gulf war which is where he did his service. if you remember nothing else about my work today, i hope you remember this. or consult. >> overruns time and space designates and initiates life and death long after it's official and. two other takeaways. first of all, although this book is the first cohesive historical account of this movement, this is not a new story. every event i talk about in this book was covered and reported at the time that it occurred. these events appeared on the front page of major newspapers, on morning news magazine shows and even in the case of greensboro which we talked about the beginning
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and a saturday night live sketch. we knew about this. but this history shows us that because of misunderstanding, and investigative strategy, didn't portray this as a social movement and an attempt to construct this ideology as something that could be understood. particularly after oklahoma city. the american public never reckoned with white power violence. leaving open the possibility of researches in the present moment. in other words, we knew and forgot. >> is a way is there are many misconceptions about activism that contribute to this problem. when we discussed why power violence as the work of mad men and lone wolves, we completely miss the fact that this is a social movement. this is a story of women and the archived showsthat the marriages , religious ceremonies and even summer picnics do as much to hold the movement together as cross burnings and public rallies. without seeing as is as a social movement it's hard to
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understand how these actions are connected which is the first step towards consenting to them as political and perhaps our discussion is whether we should also be thinking about them as terrorism . what seems new is not new but i'm here to talk about what we can learn from the past and about the possibilities this history might offer us or confronting racism in the present moment. i'm going to read from the book and then i will take questions. in 1985, a white power illustration reimagined the nativity showing a blonde blue-eyed merry and joseph and jesus surrounded by white robed klansmen and uniformed neo-nazis on the other. in the background a burning cross and swastika flag framed the star of bethlehem. distributed by aryan nation and designed by a woman, the sketch placed the virgin mary at the center of the movement. they use the white female body, powerful roots fertility to civilized theology. a cult of motherhood framed a
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wave of cultural representations of women in the white power movement and their real and imagined place in a movement usually understood through the lens of paramilitary masculinity. the work of white women was equally important both to movement formation, activism and violence and the outcome of a major trial of white power activist including seditious conspiracy enforcement arkansas. with activism felt consciously antagonist in the sense that women almost uniformly avoid leadership roles in combat, whereas before it's official ties the bowel movement, we support the war on the state waged against violence and to perform white women in ways that carry direct appeals to the mainstream. in white power publications, social issues with implicit relationships to white women's bodies and mainstream society were made emphatically explicit. why power activist claimed the government wanted to abort white babies, immigrants to allow people of color to have unlimited
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children on the government welfare nine, allow lachman to rate white women, encourage interracial marriages, all of this they said to destroy the white race. in this context, the wounds of white women became battlegrounds. >> for instance, the area women's league located within the bounds of home and family, a trademark in the movement as feminine. members are a coupon sharing campaign to lower their grocery bills to free up money to contribute to the race war. they produced anti-semitic coloring books for white children and advocated homeschooling for jewish content and race mixing. a discussed memorialization projects for excuse me, for movement soldiers. believe strongly emphasized the support of white infants. one flyer showed a white child standing on top of a tiny eucharist holding a
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teddy bear on one hand and giving a nazi salute with the other. a flyer blank spaces write the name of a new board white child and his parents and instructed to send them a dollar, creating a network of economic support for new families. only follow these announcements with courteous thank you letters about the development of each sponsored child and enclosed more announcements and culture for their donations. yes, it was a boon for the aryan races here, let us promote. as survivalist households prepare for the coming apocalypse, women also appeared on the skinhead activist in the late 1980s. they presented the most direct cultural challenge to white power leadership, leaders who had long aboard, drugs alcohol and tattoos had to adjust their rhetoric to appeal to this new group of credit urban recruits. women wore their hair short or shaved or heavy makeup and adopted androgynous postures and behavior. even within skin
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publications, male and female activist insisted on motherhood as the woman's contribution to the movement. even violent fighters defined themselves as mothers. in one interview with the chicago areas right as rain movement, skinny women and bay area publisher injector last name given recounted an incident in which a man attacked one of her friends with a loaded gun. only 16 years old at the time, she rest the attacker, daring him to shoot her. you probably remember a reputation for getting crazy in violence and culture but my primary interest live closer to the heart sent jessica to conclude her story. i take care of my family, husband and baby. and try to be a model aryan wife and mother. women in the white power movement which she tradition child both because of its symbolic invocation of their bodies of terrain and the defense and because the work real limited informing the movement further as more, and
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informed white woman to garbage be from the public. this work, precisely because the movements story about whitewomen's purity resonated with mainstream americans. white women were both a symbol of an actors in a common struggle , to protect women's chastity and racial reproduction and with it the future of whiteness itself . okay. i'm happy to take your questions. >>. >> thanks so much for that. i get 1 billion questions. i've as you kind of knowingness but not knowing this, one of the things that i've kind of known is the relationship between the nra and insurrectionist movements and i wondered if you could
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talk about any, what's known sort of about the relationship between the gun manufacturers for the nra and this movement. secondly, if you could just give us a sense of how large you think the white power movement is and you made reference to a few things like incidents and i think little rock maybe. just give us a sense of sort of other than oklahoma city, i'm not, michigan militia movements and stuff like that and dylan roof more recently. >> let me start with, let me start with the nra question which is the trickiest one from an archival perspective. historical work has not been done yet on the nra but i can tell you from the archive look at that there is a very intense fixation on guns but then material within this movement. but the activists who are taking the lead in white
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power activism are not interested in a sort of sport weapons as much as with military weapons. so the story i'm looking at, they are more likely to getting their weapons for instance in the army post at fort bragg where they stole many weapons and their materials. and they are from legitimate means. that said, this movement does align with a broader paramilitary and gun show culture which is touristic of all the united states and 80. so i think we would see them as overlap laughing out of any diagrambut certainly not one to one area . >> in terms of membership, i think there are two big ways to think of membership. let me just throw the caviar out there that these are secret groups that don't keep membership records and have a lot of reasons to lie about their side but inflating and deflating the numbers at different moments.but when people are looking for an aggregate count of the movement, meaning heads and klansmen and nazis in the 1980s for instance, what they usually come up with we can
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understand in concentric circles. there's an inner circle of say, 25,000 hard-core activists. hard-core is not my term but their term. >> those are the people who really leave the movement. there that taking to have people who have taken files to oppose what they're doing. they marry and have most of their social relationships in the movement. their entire life is organized around this, 25,000. outside of that there's a bigger group of 150 to 175,000 people. those activists are dedicated at that same level but they do buy movement literature, show up the rallies and do some movement things. outside of that there's another group that is 450,000 people being in that group doesn't buy newspapers but will read the newspaper. so if you think about a fringe movement, i think it's always helpful to think about how that perimeter is fuzzy and that ideas move from one place to another.
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we can imagine a bigger number of people who would never pay money for the newspaper but might agree with an idea from one in conversation so it gives us a way of thinking about how these movements go to the mainstream and just for contrast, our number is 450,000 people for this movement, john burke began 158,000 so kind more well-known but much less violent corollary example of extremist political formations in us history for historians is actuallysmaller than we're looking at here. >> . >> thank you for the presentation. you indicated that you put your research to 1995, basically. could you explain and bring us up-to-date and proper as to what has happened ? the new york times had an article describing the internal conflicts within the movement in the centrifugal
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forces making the internal factions start to compete. what's your sense of all that? >> i think the reason my research and that 1995 is the archival materials i draw from our not available after that date and will be available for several years though the studies i'm presenting here are something that can't continue to the present moment. what we have is the work of sociologists who monitor the internet presence of the movement and watchdogs who do the monitoring ofinflows in violence and membership . so i think broadly, i would characterize a spike in the decline after the oklahoma city bombing which is a copycat crime and the government crackdown and most of the movement relocates to the internet where it researches later. the thing about -- what history tends to show us is that these internal factions and competing leadership has
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been part of this movement from the beginning. and the presence of those things should not be understood as undermining the problems that we are facing when we face similar kinds of actions in the present . >> i guess i have a couple of questions. they revolve around to what extent is this movement grounded, i might say, in other than violence? one that intrigued me was you talked about how they envision this white state or what have you going beyond our boundaries. which has a lot of questions as to where it would go and where they put the people in power, i don't know whether any of this has been spelled out and i also wonder if there's an economic browsing of it because the way you describe it, it's more our
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origin and practical. they're taking our jobs kind of thing some of it is a religion and the way it's understood in those terms and with a sense of apocalyptic apocalyptic presenting, it's important how you think about this activism so a large number of the people active in this movement or they are part of a political philosophy called christian identity which posits that whites are the true left tribe of israel and jewish people and people of color descendent four from sagan and animals respectively. an idea there is that, so evangelicals who are experiencing a membership served at the same time in the 1980s have an idea of the rapture. the rapture is the idea that there's going to be a period
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of tribulation and warfare before christ can return but before that, the rapture is going to list all of the righteous into heaven. written identity doesn't give any such guarantee to its believers. christian identity says its followers take on the earth and do the work of clearing the world of nonbelievers so that christ can return. the very least dramatic interpretation of that for a believer would be survivalism. and many people go beyond that and sort of stockpile for war. remember, that means race war. the nonbelievers, they are all members of other races so there's that apocalyptic imaginary within the movement . and then there's also sort of , we can also see sort of the way that, one of the things you have to recognize when you look at this violence and take it seriously as an ideology is to think about all they ever thought they were going to win at this kind of war. they are facing a state with incredible power, incredible militarization on in the 1980s and 90s so what they think they're doing is
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fomenting guerrilla war. face even see even ask like the oklahoma city bombing not as a goal and end of itself but actions that are going to awaken a sympathetic white populace to this imminent threat of racial annihilation and bowman war that would overturn both race you have any idea of what they see as their state if they win? >> there's a group called the turner diaries that's a utopian novel presented by the movement that becomes kind of a playbook and indoctrination manual for many groups. that is a horse fiction but the plan laid out in that novel is to amend this guerrilla war, ending with a massive nuclear explosion that destroys the pentagon and then to hurt all people of color into concentration
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camps, expel them from the united states and canada and to set up a white state and to bomb basically all of the dense areas of people of color in the next war. >> thank you. >> welcome to dc and thank you for the book. my question is about the current iteration of these movements.there seems to be a kind of resistance to calling these ideas white power ideas and even among people who find white power ideas of orange, the idea of recasting it as economic anxiety seems to be very seductive, as if it's a breach of decorum to call ideas power ideas even when they are. does that notion have a historical antecedents in the period that you studied and assuming for the moment it does, what are the ramifications for combating that movement? >> there's kind of two parts of that that i'll address. one is that this movement turns against the state in 1983 which is the second term of reagan so it's turned
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against the state is at a moment when arguably, this demographic of people and to benefit from government. that moment of anti-statism is coming out in many different ways. and not just in this movement so for instance, evangelicals are back with reagan and "time magazine" as a piece on the right in 1984 that has to do with people's dissatisfaction at what they perceive as a reagan's moderation in comparison with his campaign promises. so the extent to which, for these activists, political and electoral means become foreclosed at a moment when the state is arguably sympathetic i think is important for our current moment alongthose lines . the other day to think about is the white power movement in the time of my study and this is true of the all right today is using the playbook pioneered by the clan early
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in the 20th century which is opportunistic. ifyou think about the clan in the 20th which is the famous example of the clan , you can think of , there's a photo in the library of congress and look up of klansmen marking on the national law with their goods but no mass. the plan was out in the open, it was incredibly popular. that's the clan most people think of. that plan was classically anti-black was anti-mexican on the border, anti-immigrants in the northeast where there were immigrants coming in, anti-labor in the northwest where there was union activity. anti-catholic in indiana where notre dame was so the clan has always had an ideology that was prepared to sail with the prevailing tide and make use of existing tension in order to recruit and bowman incidents of violence. that is the load that we would expect i think to see. >> i came in late so i want
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to be sorry for that but i have a few questions. i'm from the caribbean, grew up in the netherlands. the firstquestion i wanted to ask is how do you see these movements ? when i was in the netherlands, at the end time of my time in the netherlands you could start to see issues of race and i remember once i went to law school at the university of italy. you talk there and i said guys, i'm speaking now do you want european people . if you do not confront and see the second frontbecause clearly you are becoming more and more a minority at this point . it was the immigration coming from middle east, north africa, that if you do not confront systematically, ongoing and maybe for hundreds of years, racism and
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this colonial inheritance, this thing is going to come back to you.this is going to create a huge backlash. so i want to hear your opinion. i know you talked about already, indicating that it is fomenting on this cycle, burly danger in society maybe you want to talk about that a little bit more. the second issue is what you brought up, in relationship between even the period you studied and thebeginning movements in europe , the national league in italy, the marinee le pen movement is the beginning of these racists, zero movements, how do you see them coming? we know that this happened in europe and did you see already in that time a
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feeding back and forth, playing off of one and learning from another taking place? >> i'm not sure i totally caught your first question, if i missed it, come back and ask me again but for me, this all project is emerging for this moment from a truth and reconciliation commission. these are the stories under the history of what has happened. this is where the history can show us how to do better. and i think the fact that what you find in those moments of community, truth telling is violence, it shows this idea of the progress narrative that we've had in history, many people have had this idea of a multicultural moment of a colorblind moment. and this shows us over and violence racism was with us the whole time and this is where it went during those
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years . transnational white power activism is an area in need of much more attention . it begins to emerge in this book. one chapter in this book about mercenary soldiers in the way people are holding an anti-democratic worldview in southern africa and central america as mercenaries and coming back to the united states to work with white power but it's bigger than that and the transnational implications leave us much more to study so for instance, people in this book are forming the cost foundation which stands for africa, the united states, europe, i can't get them all. but the idea is there's a white nation. an area nation. there's a white nation of people who are not just in a nationstate but a racial
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nation. this is the read reason we must study it transnational he. >> you said if we rememberone thing that we should remember that war comes home and that i know you stopped not long after the 91 gulf war . i wonder if you could talk, and again, we are asking you to project forward, i know you're a historian what would be your expectation based on what you did at the 17 years of war we are engaged in right now is contributing greatly to fueling this trend and i don't know if you want to talk more specifically about post a 1991 war, what you saw timothy mcveigh and we all saw but i'm sure you see a lot more that you could perhaps tell us about. >> tour, and let me be clear from the outset about what i'm saying about veterans
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because it is it is not just veterans. the veterans involved in this movement represent a tiny percentage of returning veterans but an instrumental and important group of people within the white power movement you do things like run military camps to train other people, obtain military weapons and training and distribute those weapons and killing so that the civilian toll is much higher than it would be without them. however, the historical record doesn't show us throughout the art of american history , along the 20th century, the aftermath of work there aligns with searches in groups like this so the clan has surged more consistently with the aftermath of warfare and it has with poverty, anti-immigration, apocalypticism and any other explanation offered by historians. studies have shown that that surge of violence is definitely not just veterans. so another point that shows
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us, this is not about veterans is that it's all age groups and all veterans after warfare. we see a spike in violence after war. the other thing we can think about isthat the vietnam war has been so central to our national consciousness . that the lack of sort of processing other war experiences will inform how we make sense of the present day war. >> ongoing wars, >> thank you for your research and your book. you mentioned a few times in your archives, can you say more about what they are and also did you do interviews? and if you did or didn't, how do you work these kinds of sources together? >> this does not preclude any interviews or history, largely because some people who provided their opinion of what they were doing at the time of the event really
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changed your story about them and i had this amazing, huge archive of contemporary thinking about why people were doing this or why they said they were doing what they were doing. so the historian movement is to use the paper archive, there are many other sociological accounts that do interviews that i would recommend to you. >> so what i'm using here are previously classified surveillance documents on fbi staff and department of justice and us marshals. newspaper research from the united states and central america and then three major camera collections of newspapers, newsletters, journals, bumper stickers, drawings, all kinds of stuff made by the victims themselves. those three archives include one of the things collected by a journalist during research. one collected by an archivist who send out questionnaires to groups on the fringes that
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can you fill out this thing about what you believe and i'll send whatever materials are laying around. >> and one by two archivists who posed as group members and went to meetings and brought home what they found that the meetings so these are three really different collection methods and the archives have the same thing though i think i have a good overview of what was produced in this time and those are complete and of course i always wish i had more things but it's really interesting archives. >> i wish people could do more with it. >> i imagine this is a topic for which is hard to set aside preconceived notions about the topic. and that's two questions. one is what you set aside or what surprised you along the way in terms of your preconceived notions about these groups in order to study them and the second question is how you find yourself getting enough critical distance with the topic so that maybe one of
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those groups don't hold your book up and say thank you for writing a history of my movement? >> this is a tricky thing because i think part of the training of the historian is to give your accuracy historical empathy. you have to because otherwise there's no way to make sentence of this kind of action. that's something i've fought for through this project and i think it's an ethical frame because you know, to really confront an ideology that you find abhorrent but to find the humanity of the actors carrying it out brings to light the many ways that these people and through that we get the social movement. through that we get the inflection of how the state is involved in confronting
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and fomenting this violent activism. through that we get the nexus of ways this movement connects other movements in the same time and i think that's where we can start to understand and do something different in our response. >> . >> thank you so much. you talked about a social movement. and you mentioned the beginning best constitution of terrorism and i think we've seen a lot of white power influence or inflected violence, mass violence in recent days, including what i would say kind of online, misogyny as a gateway drug to extremism. as we saw in toronto recently so i'm serious about what you think they have done physically and tactically and also more broadly, why have we not classify these groups as terrorist groups? >> okay. one of the things that
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subject have to do with where are the women right now? if you think about the pictures of the altercation at charlottesville, and the people marching down the street , women are not there. again, it will be many years before i have the kind of archive that would let me say why, but i wonder if the way the internet has expanded has created less of a need for those social relationships. that said, these activists were on the internet early, using computers and protected message board in 1983 and 84 distributing money across the country to let people could buy many computers, many being in 80s not many but many computers. so that they could get online and go on these message boards and they included everything from personal ads to connect activists with others, sort of documenting rhetorical messaging.
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so the internet has been a constant but certainly it has expanded dramatically 1995. that is one of the things about our society has changed a lot so even though this movement pioneers social networking in a way, there is a way that those in real life social relationships might be less important than they were. we see that in dylann roof and from the fact that he was wearing a rhodesian flag patch when he posted the pictures to social media prior to the charlottesville shooting . the charleston shooting. now, social movement definition -- the question about terrorism is a little trickier. with the example of the oklahoma city bombing, we can
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think about that as the largest deliberate mass casualty event on american soil between 9/11 and pearl harbor. it's hugely important and we still have this narrative of timothy mcveigh as a loan actor or perhaps a co-conspirator. the co-conspirators were really involved, etc. but mcveigh was definitely part of the movement, a socialist geography of timothy mcveigh shows the many ways he was part of this movement including membership in a clan group, subscribing to newspapers and publications, contact with several different white power groups before the bombing and expose journalism that shows he was in kind of the elite of the michigan militia. but how we forgot about that is a complicated question i get into the two in the book and i'll go off on briefly here. this thing in arkansas was a
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federal trial of 13activists in this movement for charges including seditious conspiracy . which is what they said they were doing. they were trying to overthrow the federal government. this trial was a total disaster, all of them were acquitted. there were issues with jury partiality. two defendants had romantic relationships with the jurors, one of them all got married. large swaps of evidence were excluded because there was a chain of custody with another actor in mexico and one of the jurors after the trial went on record saying that he thought the bible prohibited interracial relationships. there were issues with how this went . but more important than that for us is that trial change federal policy on how victims would be prosecuted so if you look at trial and then if you try to get on the 90s, ruby ridge and waco which reviewed
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relations disasters where the government confronted a white power movement in ruby ridge and an apocalyptic community in waco which was not like our community butwas depicted as such within this movement . there was an fbi memo that said after that, he would not try to prosecute people as part of the movement, they would only go after individuals a lot of time of oklahoma, we don't even get an investigation . we don't even get a prosecution trying to show the public there is a movement so we totally erase everything we already knew. terrorism designation is tricky. and you know, it's in many ways beyond the purview of the historians. the archive and show us the ways we precluded . >> had a couple quick questions, if you could say more about the truth and reconciliation commissionand why you found in the area.
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and then a question a little bit on the question . i immediately thought of the turner diaries and the notion that you would have to have insurrection at the moment that the government started taking away our guns so i guess that's a very contemporary to me and in the discussion that we are having in this country right now. >> tell me the first one again. >> just the story about the trc.>> trc is not in his book had created a huge archival basis about greensboro. and it is worth reading their materials. and actually has kept going into the present moment. i believe the city council of greensboro and up apologizing after charlottesville finally for the events of 1979. but that commission is around the fact that the altercation where the shooting of communist and leftist demonstrators by klansmen, neo-nazi guzman was caught on tape. it's an 88 second thing. there are three different
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camera viewpoints and all the gunmen were acquitted in state and federal trials. one of them was found partially, one of the guest was found partially wrongful in a trial and it was the death of the one person that was not in the communist group. so the way that communism works and that is what was primarily interesting. but the true permission is interesting and one of the thing that's interesting is that they had no subpoena power, no punitive power and no city by in area when these guys showed up to tell their story. so there is something here about telling stories to community . excavation of these events i personally found helpful and might provide a model. yes, this story about taking the guns in the state, taking our guns in his moment of altercation, definitely is a narrative . >> during the period that you describe, my is there wasn't an organized social movement
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to confront these groups and in a very major way. today on the other hand, there are a lot of organizations the southern poverty law center and others that are announcing the danger and hoping to organize liberal or democratic groups. am i correct that there was not much of an economy movement back in early period ? and that led to the current situation? >> i think that's another place for what seems new and not new. the southern poverty law center and the anti-defamation league were around during my study filing lawsuits, often unsuccessfully in rendering stops for some of this activism. and in fact, in many cases those trials were able to deliver more effective groups in a criminal prosecution for immaterial stop to white
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power violence. similarly, thinking about radical confrontation, there was a string of leftist organizations including the committee against racism and progressive labor party, the one from greensboro who were staging aggressive, ethical, in many cases armed counter protests to those kind of violence. >> thank you. my question is about culture. you have the turner diaries, a novel about the sort of central to this meant. i keep on thinking about
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prussian blue, these two young girls who were this pop group. how does this culture work into that? how does culture sustain or reflect this movement in other spheres? >> culture is hugely important to this movement for tacticalreasons. after 1983 the movement adopted a strategy called leaderless dissent which we have become familiar with as cell terrorism . the idea is that a small one ãsix man group of activists would be able to go out and fulfillviolence movement objectives without direct communication from leadership . lang being one of the architects of the movement writes about how they are going to know what is goingto do is going to be hard enough organized by a common culture . things like the turner diaries, the music, the value of the movement are how targets are circulated in absence of these orders. thanks. okay. thank you very much. [applause]
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>> you're watching tv on c-span2, television for serious readers. here's our primetime lineup . tonight at 6:50 p.m., georgia house democratic leader and gubernatorial candidate stacy abrams offers her thoughts on leadership. at eight, former secretary of state condoleeza rice talk about global security and the future of american security and on "after words" at nine, journalist your own course he argues there's an effort to for the presidency of donald trump. at 10 journalist alisa law, the report over half of the people in us jails in prison had a psychiatric disorder and we wrap up our primetime programming with political professor david ferris. he offers his thoughts on the
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strategies and political reforms needed to move the progressive agenda forward. that happens tonight on tv, television for serious readers. next on book tvs "after words", cofounder chris hughes discusses his plans to reduce poverty by offering working people a guaranteed income. he's interviewed by democratic representative don beyer virginia. "after words" is a program interviewing top nonfiction authors about their latest work. >>. >> welcome to this wonderful book discussion. thank you for joining chris to send me. let me jump right in. yes, you talk about both the power of unrestricted cash transfers to transformthe lives of people . i know you came to this slowly but surely but every time i ask others about this idea, they say why should we trust people? will this make them lazy? how do you answer that from your own experience?


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