tv Bill Kristol at Politics Eggs Breakfast CSPAN June 4, 2018 10:49pm-11:53pm EDT
talks about his pardon from president trump after pleading guilty to illegal campaign contributions. be sure to watch c-span washington journal live at 7:30 tuesday morning. join the discussion. >> on wednesday at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-spa 2, the memorial service marking the 50th anniversary of the assassination of robert f kennedy. from arlington national cemetery. featured speakers include family, friends, members of congress and former president bill clinton. watch the rfk 50th memorial service at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span 2. c-span.org or listen on the free c-span radio app. >> now to college in manchester, new hampshire, where political commentator bill crystal looks ahead to the 2020 presidential race.
mr. crystal has been a leader in the so-called never trump leadership. this is part of the series co-hosted by the newampshire institute of politics and the new england council. >> i want to welcome you all as most of you know politics and eggs is not just for political candidates. over the years, we've hosted a variety of national media figures who have extensive experience covering and commentating on presidential politics. today we're delighted to welcome bill crystal, the founder and editor at large of the weekly standard, the influential journal of politics and ideas located in washington dc. bill began his political career working on the senate campaign for daniel patrick in new york in 1976. i was in high school. we were just talking about that campaign. and allen keys in 1988.
he went onto serve as chief of staff to secretary of education bill bennett during the rean administration. and later as chief of staff to vice president dan qil during the first bush administration. before starting the weekly standard in 1995, mr. crystal led the project for the republican future where he helped shape the strategy that produced the 1994 republican congressional victory. he also has served on the faculty at harvard university and the department of political science at the university of pennsylvania. he has published widely in areas ranging from foreign policy to constitutional law to political philosophy. he is a regular comment tarot -- commentate tore on abc and frequently appearing on other shs. i'm sure you're all eager to
hear his insight on the current administration and the outlook for this year's midterm, as well as the 2020 presidential election. so please join m in offering a warm welcome to our guest bill crystal. [ applause ] >> thanks, steve, and it's great to be here. i want to thank the council. it's great to be back. i was here in january. every four years for the new republican -- i think fox was headquartered here and i was part of the fox team. so that was 2012, not 2016. and really i love coming here during the day. it's a beautiful campus. greathospitality. i congratulate the women's softball team is in the elite 8 of the ncaa playoff. and i should catulat them. maybe i should run for office
since i've already learned how to suck up to everybody in new hampshire. no offense to women's softball. praise every new hampshire resident who has ever done anything important. we drovever this morning and i said it's so lovely and beautiful that my memories of driving in new hampshire are mostly, not entirely, ipent the summer here 30 years ago and really loved it, but mostly december, january members. a lot of them are pre-gbs and driving on these back roads at 10:30 at night after some political rally without gps. i guess you guys don't believe in signs. [ laughing ] >> there are really excellent signs here. and lights on the roads. so it's been lost many times.
and, of course, december and january there's no snow or ice so it's really great. but it is nice to be here in the summer. maybe you should move the primary to the summer. i shouldn't even joke about that, right. that would be terrible. i feel like i should profess my deep allegiance to the nation's primary. it's in the constitution, you know. anyway, a wonderful summer here. that was a few decades ago. and i was house sitting for someone on the summer house there on the lake. it was really, really beautiful. i taught at the kennedy school for a couple of years after grad school i didn't go to college. grad school in boston and then came back and taught from '83 to '85. i was on the faculty there. the to have one at all times. it's useful for the students to know what one looks like for when they get out and have to get a job or something like that. and i've always -- i've always
like -- and i always used to look for massachusetts up to new hampshire. they had competitive politics. like conservative republicans. moderate republicans. liberal democrats. diversity of senators and republicans. and i remember thinking how different it was from cambridge, massachusetts, where i lived. in '84 we lived in the 8th congressional district. obviously in boston in the district. totally democratic congressional district. it had been john kennedy's district 30 years before. they were very proud of that, of course. to give you a sense of politics in cambridge, i remember voting in '84. and i voted for reagan obviously free election to the presidency. that was the last democrat i worked for. we'll see what happens in the next few years.
[ laughing ] >> full circle, you know. if there were still democrats, i would be more likely to consider becoming a democratic again. in any case, i remember for rean. i ved for the republican senate candidate. very nice man running against john kerry. it was kerry's first race. i ran into then senator kerry and after losing presidential campaign. so this must have been '05, '06. we were making conversations. and he remembered the validation vaguely that i had some massachusetts connection and sort of harvard connection. weren't you there at some point when i was maybe lieutenant governor. and i said, yes, i remember you coming to some dinner with him and a large group. and i said i remember, well, your first senate race in '84. and he sort of beamed. and i said of course i voted against you.
[ laughing ] >> and maybe you're not aware of this, but john kerry does n veat sense ofhumor. [ laughing ] >> so i said, you know, he looked at me. and i said -- it was nothing persal. i was just a republican. having won the race by 12 points or something anyway. and he looked at me and said bill, you know, my opponent was not really well qualified for the position. [ laughing ] >> gee, lighten up, senator kerry, you know. and then, of course, as a loyal republican at this point, i voted for the opponent tip o'neil at the congressional level, even though it was hopeless. and i remember the next morning preinternet obviously. knew from tv and radio that reagan had won and kerry won. i remember asking my wife we were having breakfast and she had the globe open to the election terms. by the way, what happened in the congressional race. i'm curious how many votes. the republican running against him. and susan looked at the globe
tables, electio tables. looked again and said i hate to tell you this. there was no republican running against tip o'neal. and i said, you know, i know i voted for someone against tip. it turned out i voted for the mmunist. [ laughing ] >> it's a true story actually. it caused me trouble when i went to -- bill bennett called me and i went down to work for him. and i remember the interview i had was white house personnel office. they have to make sure you're okay and a loyal supporter of the candidate. so i remember being kind of nervous. it was right there in the white house. one of the old executive office building across the driveway from the white house. and i remember going through the interview thinking i'm trying to break the ice and i was at the kennedy school and i debated for reagan and i wasn't very popular and i voted against kerry. and i tried to vote against tip
o'neil. my mistake, i voted more the communist. and they held up my approval. three months. i think btt had to personally call the chief of staff to get me through for some extremely junr job. but that's why the reagan administration was a great administration. it wasn't okay to vote for communists. let me give you my -- my sense of where we are and could be politically which is obviously very hard to know in these very fluid times. i guess my first point would be these really are fluid and unpredictable times. i don't think i or anyone else would be stabbnding here -- i guess that would be the equivalent that one would have predicted that donald trump would be the nominee, let alone the next president. they would have predicted hillary clinton would have been the candid
bernie sanders getting beat by hillary clinton. sanders beat her 60-40. this is a good reminder of how hard it is to predict politics. i was thinking of this the other day with paul ryan in the news and the attempted coupe against him. in 2012 we were huge. pretty big fans of ryan. very pleased when romney picked him. we weren't sure it would help romney. but we thought it was kind of an appropriate generational transfer. ryan was a man of ideas. he had courageously taking on the title of spending, which you really do need to take on if you want to reduce the deficit and deal with the debt. theeed could have gotten republicans behind him on that. and even neutralize that as a political issue if you want to restrain spending. forward looking moderate on some
hot button issues, like immigration which i thought was a good thing. anyways, we were very pleased when romney took ryan. figured out he's really the leader of the party over the next generation or two. decade or two at least. . . conspiracy theory about the president and he was so controversial in 2012 that when they accepted his endorsement people like me said do you have
to give that kind of degree of legitimacy and now he's president of the united states is a good reminder. it is a good reminder. it's not a particularly happy story, but it is a good reminder of how fast and how radically things can change. i am not a big fan of his. we always have these candidates, these business ties and they do okay in the early 20% sometimes iowa and new hampshire but then they fade into the kind of platform or they win a primary that the then they ignored all of that and he ran as himself and he ran everywhere. i remember some of the
consultant said he should pull out not run so much in one or two states and then he has to manage expectationsnd o people listen to them. they didn't fight hard in new hampshe and you know, trump ignored all that and won the nomination, so it's a good reminder there's something to be said for just having the nerve to do i that and to ignore the conventional wisdom and not to over think everything for all of these political consultants that give advice here and there. having said that i think it is a great thing for the country but you do have to give him credit for that. so what's going to happen simply wouldn't have gotten this right
and there were plenty of other times we wouldn't have gotten it right. my bottom line would be things are much more fluid and up in the air than we realize. you look at a snapshot and if you look at the approval it's been pretty steady for the 50s and 60s and slight uptick in the last two oe mor rehs but basically the most of the voters that wasn't a majority of the country obviously. he'sicked up and hasn't lost too many so in a certain breed is a pretty static situation. conventional wisdom would be in the latest polls so a bit of an underdog for 2020 but not hopeless in 2018 and goes against the incumbent party and one party controls both houses of congress and they tend to do badly and i imagine that will happen sthat's kind of the
conventional view. it won't be much of a challenge. there will be a normal looking presidential election. we've gone through the lt4 years with three eight-year presidency is a. they got elected four years later there was no primary challenge to any of them with bush in 06 and obama in 2012 dot having primary challenges hopes you and they ahree da. congress went back and forth in the usual way. in a certain way it was a stable time in american politics and
debate equalized the congressional playing field you had looking back from 92 and on from a kind of predictable oscillation between the two parties. the only one that happened was right at the founding right after washington and adams but it's never happened since and i think we've been tend to assume they don't have primary challenges may be the president picks up a point or two and gets reelected but think back 1960 to 1980 is very conventional against the rising senator and then 20 years of total unpredictability and chaos in the politics, the characters
change and they control the party and 64 and people forget how much of an upset and was at the time to get the nomination but then gets clobbered by johnson who was allegedly now on top of the world that things don't go so well for johnson and he ends up having a terrible off year election by mccarthy who was sent to a well-known figure. he's always been the more junior senator from minnesota. he nominated adlai stevenson in the hopeless attempt to stop jack kennedy. but it wasn't like mccarthy was a giant of the democratic party or the natural leader of the forces. but he ran other students and what did he get, 42% of the vote or something like that. bobby kennedy got in the three
days later and kennedy was assassinated so with changes and johnson drops a couple years after kennedy so johnson goes from 61% and the republican nominee having allegedly been finished off by the governor's race in california, nixon speaks to a victory in 68 and then they take over the party and it goes to the left as the republican party had done under goldwater and nixon crushes mc govern and the second term doesn't go so well and he is out of office in 18 months of general ford takes over in 76, ronald reagan almost beats ford in the primary and
they nominate the one term governor of in 2022 nominate but he is better known as a two-term governor of colorado or the state at the time that was smaller and less central to the american politics for the multi-candidate race. they make up the deficit and carter becomes president, kennedy challges carter, should have beat him in 1980 but need some mistake and carter hangs on on the democratic side and ronald reagan and so forth comes back having lost in 76. think of those 20 years.
primaries in 68, 76. it was a certain pattern you might say of american politics and i have a feeling we are entering a period more like that. but it's a turbulent era when it's up for grabs not like the 24 years of the sbility where each party most of the time nominated the next in line in the same decree for the last 30 years to get nominated in the second place to the next presidential as the best way to select the nominees they were very republican and the republicans fall in line and they always have a little bit of a fling with some uninteresting
and then they would go, cr that much more exciting. in retrospect obama was the opposite of hillary clinton. each of the other less edictable over semi-predictable. obama is upsetting hillary end up standing in 08 and then a little bit of a hint of what was to come on the republican side, not to compare them that in terms of the voters picking sufficiently willing to take a gamble to not report experience and not go to the next line on the republican side with trump.
so maybe some will say obama was the forte to this but we are at a much more volatile era. don't ae rhe kind of learned people my age looking through '90s and 2000 and the kind of predictable races noticing those now in politics or for tex f years i think it is an unusual moment you can see a lot of evidence of that and there's also the voters from the two parties into the different messages and of course the world complicated unpredictable place in the foreign policymitt economy committee investigation going on now and whose result is unknown, so the number of variables that could shock the system is pretty startling. let me talk about that because i know them a little better than the democrats and i have an
interest in the situation and it doesn't reflect in many important ways. right nowru pular among the republicans. he's held his approval or increased it a little bit but i think it is overstated. you have to ask yourself is the economy going to get better than it is now, is the foreign policy right now we haven't had any of the big crisis. we have had little flareups but so far it has been kept under control. is this goin that going to conte next year orear and a half those all seem to have more downside riskshan upside. i don't see the environment getting much better over the next year or two and even more have unemployment come down
where they denuclearize or something but as for those kind of things, the downside is greater and it's a very fluid situation as i pulled up this morning it confirms what the others show a little more dramatically. there's about an 80% approval from the republicans and half of that strongly approves, half of those people somewhat. they are people that typically didn't vote in the primar priman 2016 and he didn'2016 he didn'ty that year. people voted in the general election because he was better than hillary clinton and the tax policy and they thought he could handle the downside. there are people that would still probably say when asked, i still approve of trum trump butm okay with the policies and its better than having hillary.
i don't like enoug a lot of his critics and opponents so i am s a judgment for now and a lot of it is a richer prospect. people were annoyed and it's all about what you prefer hillary. november 7, 2018 the day after the election when the story or the question republicans and independents have to face is do you want four more years. it becomes a prospective question, not a richer perspective and that is something they have a difficulty capturing. they have to ask themselves in 2019 and 2018. 2018 is about rv okay, do you feel okay about your vote.
2019 is who you want in 2020 and you have the experience of how that can be and people can emerge from quite far behind and the challengers to what seem like formidable front-runners and i think that could have been. people are estimating how big of a pivot and if you look at the one from this morning, this may not be accurate but it's interesting. 38 to 50 doesn't mean they all vote for the person that they like to see a challenger give themselves give them a choice.
that includes 32% of those that voted for trump but goes by 53 and those who approve of trump. you could tell your self and this would b be legitimate, he disrupted things and make that appointment and got decent policies out of it for four more years this kind of chaos and maybe we pocketed gains to try to find a younger candidate.
everything is a hyper partisan fight and fight to demean your opponents and americans really don't like that, but again the primary challenger oer a way forward from that, it's primary challenger would wind up within sound like me but more of a kind of we need to move beyond trump and then to see what happens in the world and how he looks in terms of his performance on the economy and so forth. in a state like new hampshire where the independent can vote, his numbers are not strong and some of those will vote in the republican primary and that there is more openness.
the static look right now is a little bit like bush beats mccain and price down lyndon johnson is unchallengeable and i think there's more give in those numbers than people think. i don't know if the challenger would succeed. it's important to have the force of debate if trump were to lose it would allow for someone to step up and say here is a different way forward then to trust [inaudible] ranging from reagan. they were different from the candidates that won and lost the general election.
could there be an independent candidate that is something i looked at after, knows. you have trump and sanders, maybe elizabeth warren. and i would say that conventional view that is impossible the voters are so used to voting for the two parties that is less true than people think. money can buy you access and the voters are increasingly not disloyal you might say that's not loyal to the parties. the voters think of themselves as much more independent than the older voters that are democrat or republican for 30 years. so, the right candidate you could imagine a bipartisan
candidacy in the trump and sanders kind of world but the primary for someone like me and i would be interested in saving the party in the movement which i think contributed a fair amount of the key would be jesse is a challenge is impossible and my view is it's more possible than people think and i would take inspiration from their own example who pulled off something in 2015 and 16 and if he could do it why can't someone else do it again suddenly he can talk all he wants and attack the institutions in a way that is pretty irresponsible and damaging about the deep criminal state.
i spent a lot of time as a professor arguing against the left-wing view of america and now we have an american republican president, richer onlyonservative president talking about the institutions of government and the fbi and justice department in particular as a criminal of the state that is a pretty astonishing things to people can get pretty tired of that and they are willing to overlook it a little bit. that is the question of the way of 2020 if people have done so well in new hampshire, there was the campaign that was exciting and fun. at least the rental cars i got
from the town halls and no offense but god knows where and to try to get to my hotel and god knows where. people cross the river a lot of times kind of pointless becauseu look through your mojo, but thinking of mccain the other day, given his current medical challenges, that campaign is a good example of something that wasn't predicted and didn't quite win the presidency but came pretty close and his wife is an inspiring story of courage in taking risks in politics and sometimes the risks paid off and sometimes they don't but they are worth taking. we stopped there for questions, comments or.
>> are there any candite you can potentially see? >> one thing the mccarthy example suggests [inaudible] i would caution the best pick whos to run. i think a lot of people in washington are on the never trump side of things that it will sort itself out by primary day i'm sure. the most obvious candidate would be john kasich because he ran last time and he is finishing up two successful terms i would say
as the governor of ohio, a major state and he did well in 2016. i won't say the first call but he would be a formidable figures and others probly step back i he were going to do it. there's no reason both of them couldn't take a shot. i did a radio interview in the boston herald. so i was talking with the boston herald where the interview began to build c-charlie baker the governor of massachusetts and confirming he was in good shape and of course baker would be a formidable candidate and i was
thinking more and made this clear the key is more of a democratic governor and a bipartisan ticket of trump and sanders kind of context. don't they have any news up there or something on the front page, i guess they have a challenge in the primary down there and he needs a notorious fact that you can just take on trump, nothing to any of this and i don't do tha know him tha, i admire him but he is probably annoyed that i said it but most are not annoyed at you if you speculate. i'm hoping that outweighs.
it's pretty hard to tell it is extending no one else quite has the. >> [inaudible] making any major statement. >> he is a big supporter of the presidentnd has never been more honored in his life to work with the president. both of our kids went to the marine corps that i've been appalled by the degree. i portray vice president and we believed in the case of george
w. bush that the degree is a little bit much for me but that is why i am not a politician. i don't know. so, yes he has a political operation and icorporation and o around the country this year. it just seems he is not going to run against trump and he could decide not to run and my feeling is unlik what al gore or something like that, it wouldn't make sense among the voters necessarily that they would need to be for mike pence. there would be others so you would have a wide-open presidential race and i don't think that he would be in a very dominant position. his play is the normal if he
gets elected then you are in that situation to win the nomination en then a lot of depend on how it turns out. i am less convinced that he will take a shot and he has real supporters out there but i am not convinced about him ever being a presidential nominee. [inaudible] it seemed they had to take responsibility for the outcome was and there was little critical reporting. are you seeing any change in the news media and do you foresee a different kind of election and quality reporting? >> we tried to do ou try to do e weekly standard, cnn or fox.
i don't know, i don't quite agree i guess. it seems the voters do an awful lot o by the time they vote for him and in the general election for whatever reason elizabeth was anti-hillary and republican loyalty at that point people voted with their eyes open it's not like the access hollywood tape. some of the business stuff could have gotten more attention but trump university part of a group that put up ads on that at some point in the primaries and people just were not interested. people wanted change. i tried to explain. why are you for him to m comey a great businessman, for bankruptcies, so the big thing i missed in the republican primary was the power of the celebrity. he was a huge celebrity.
it didn't market his brand forever and the show was a huge network evening show, it was popular in which he played himself as a successful, but also engaging and fun-loving businessmen. it was excellent marketing from his point of view and people like me who watched the news and think it is a big deal if cnn gets 1.5 million viewers sort of forgot what it means when a network show gets 12 or 15 million. so that is much more important to the success than cnn. maybe they had him on too often. the sense of just the eco- chamber and all of that but i don't know how much we can blame the media in 2016. people have to take responsibility of that and we can't forget the candidates a
letter directing their own resources against each other in the mood of change people want change, people are not happy. they want someone to change things. i read working with george w. bush, george h. w. bush was not a bad president, this country wasn't into double shape, we won the cold war into the good decade of economic growth and they were pretty responsible as they put us in legislation and a bunch of areas. people want change and i ran for going out with the chie chief of staff and giving speeches and recounting what we have done. the ones that didn't like clinton were willing to take a risk on ross perot got 19 million votes and prospero was kind of crazy, no offense to any of the voters here, but they
were sending a signal. that's why in the general election, having jeb bush as a main opponent of using the public wants to change we are unhappy with the way things have gone to the two-party establishment to say that two candidates for you, the son and brother of the two most recent republican candidates, jeb bush who is a good guy and hillary clinton the most recent democratic president that works as the secretary of state for the most recent. so you want to change and we are giving you bush and clinton. that was lucky for trump but was also effective at taking advantage. that was the key dynamic in the whole campaign when we got t the general. i always said when i was on tv was a one in four or five chance that he would win. but i always thought you cannot underestimate the change in the
atmosphere for much of an advantage of this to the outside candidate. people thought they could disqualify trump and came pretty close. it didn't quite work and the incumbent, this is a problem people face, the trick is to change the candidate and ma maye good enough he could just do reagan and good morning america and they took over after horrible financial crisis isn't great now but at least could come back some. it was getting tough but a good response and so forth. bill trump be able to have a incumbent message. he has been helped a lot by the silo that is a deeper problem and a problem in the media and so forth.
>> they want the speaker to redesign so they can bring in a new speaker. paul ryan is going to be there in november. what is the speakership going to look like? >> i think it sort of petered out because it was found out about and then mccarthy said there's nothing to it and now there's people on the record. will that even hurt him, i don't know but i think he makes it through november. now managing a conference that is already difficult to manage, looking at the election that could be bad for them and they could lose the house and run on
different traction's, so the whole thing is a mess. we could have been anticipated. i remember saying about a month or so ago there might be legislation to take care of da daca. it looks like there will be something to look forward to and trump will veto it if they can get a little bit of money for the wall and i'm not sure o the senate would pass it so i suspect things will be more. again we've gotten very used to parties wind up, trench warfare, 49 votes in the senate, 237 to 100 whatever the number is,
eight votes in the house and that's kind of just the way congress works, it is the way that it works but it doesn't need to work that way and you can imagine some of the things breaking in interesting ways. what happens i said november 27 in 2018 as people look forward happens in congress, what if the democrats win the house by ten seats or something. a heck of a lot of democratic candidates have run including some incumbents but it's a lot of challengers that will vote for nancy pelosi for speaker as for the democrat the other day, he pointed that out to me because i said something like what the washington look like when it is trump versus pelosi, that will be a pretty final confrontation and people would get so sick of the unbelievable partisanship and ideological
polarization. said what makes you think pelosi is going to be the speaker and i said i don't know if they win the house sil be saker and he said no. i said people said they won't vote for her andhey will find the excuse november and december i think it is the right thing to do and he said he's close to the democrats more than i am and he said no. you ran in western pennsylvania saying over and over i am not a pelosi democrats it is not so easy to just turn around and vote for speaker and you could have a vote where it is 195 for the republican and 195 for pelosi and both are some young moderate or something and you could have negotiations than about who becomes the next speaker and you could imagine if the house is now defined as both parties getting together and saying we shouldn't change some
of the rules to make it easier to come to the floor to stop this kind of stranglehold that the majority leader has said the legislation, but you could imagine 51- is iossibl susan collins and lisa murkowski and the others get together with dow jones alabama if he is elected in tennessee to say do we not have more of a regular order in the senate. right now this is shocking to me, they are out of 14-7 which would protect him but it would create a review process if the president tries to fire the special counsel, there are some concerns about that that could be addressed but it comes out the judiciary to-1.
shouldn't he at least bring it to the floor to let people amended to see if they can get 60 votes on the floor? the littlest punching just say i'm not bringing it to the floor and incidentally of the if the president doesn't like it he can veto it. it's not taking away his power or legislation to do it. so i think there is a pretty good feeling among the younger members especially in the house and senate tha the senate that m is really broken and that it is and this pres trump and i think you could see a situation whatever happens in the next four or five month this post-election day in 2019 where you get much more turmoil and possible change in the house and the senate both in personnel. you could have a new democratic and republican leader on the
house side but also change in procedure so just like the presidential campaign, the image we have of how congress works, total polarization and warfare may not hold for the next. [inaudible] >> would you comment briefly on john mccain's recent statement that he regrets sarah palen as his running mate? >> i think that he said he wished he nominated joe lieberman as his running mate and i was slightly involved in that on the outside. the payment therapy when and here'hears an interesting goverr whose popular with democrats and republicans taking on the energy companies and i talked her out of the pulpit. i wrote a column myself but i forgoforgot that i get from this
until i went back and looked at the story a couple of weeks ago. i wrote a column inhe times as lieberman as the bipartisan country first. it probably wouldn't have worked given the financial crisis that obama was going to win in 2008 and i think what mccain says is he wishes blank as lieberman better than i do and i didn't realize how serious he wanted to but he got talked out of it by his political aides said it would be a messy convention. how could you have a pro-choice vp and so forth. it would have been a mess at the convention. i still think it would have been a good thing to do for the country so he says he wishes he had done that and in the buck he
defends sarah palen's performance which i would defend mostly also. quiet and polite i would s about her tjectory of it for me was impressive in 2007 and 20 of eight and i don't know if you believe these limitations, she obviously did to some degree or her own celebrity and everything else went to her head. she stopped being a serious politician and became very entranced with the money and fame anthefame and tv contract o forth, so she's a disappointment to me. the one thing i would say is when i came saw there was a populist unhappiness in the busiss as usual that was for something new. it wasn't crazy to see that he'd been around for a long time it is owed maverick way it wasn't
crazy to think someone like a table -- palin and against those that say that was kind of a trump of the day that isn't really fair. look at the debate, defending theodere immigra poes and mccain's policies, defense american internationalism is prou proud r son is going to iraq and engaged in nationbuilding, she's a free trader, she isn't nativist anti-immigrant or anything racially charged about the campaign or about her own life actually. she ends up becoming a trump republican many years later but i think it's a little unfair as the vp in my view she had the chance to be kind of a healthy
populist injecting this element into an otherwise establishment campaign from my point of view was without undercutting the core republican values. i was wrong about her as a person underestimating her and maybe the stories also say this is the beginning of the tea party that led to one thing or another, there's too much determinism to get back to my point i will close on december the tea party did and caused trump. rubio and crews were candidates for federal tea party candidates in 2012 and ran for president in 2016. it would have produced rubio and crews but he was a weird offshoot of the various trends and sentiments and attitudes that he exploited very cleverly. he is a good demagogue and i use the terthat term just in the tel sense. he was willing to say and do
things the other candidates were not willing to do and i think they were right not to quote the vans and all that stuff. theyere right in my view to stop those things that turd out to be popular more than i would expect it wit that parts e electorate which was more exasperated and willing to be responsible and more angry than i had expected. whether they are right or wrong with america in 2016 such hoible place to be in. washington made plenty of mistakes but it wasn't quic i cd in the world. donald trump tapped into it in a way that hadn't exceed people