tv Salena Zito Brad Todd The Great Revolt CSPAN June 10, 2018 9:00am-10:00am EDT
president. later this month in new orleans at the american library association annual conference featuring a keynote talk by former first lady michelle obama and then from july 11 to the 14th, it's the annual libertarian conference, freedom fest in off-base. for more information about their and watch our previous coverage, click e book fairs on our website, booktv.org. >> .. who voters are and what motivates them, the kind of data that can help you extrapolate what they are going to do and why they're going to do it. it's the kind of thing that both lehman and so-called experts who barely know nothing like me want
to get their hands on to try to understand what is happening in national politics today. i wanted to dive right in and talk about the book. salena, you open, the book opens with you spend some time in the middle of the night with bonnie smith. i want to set this up. you went with her in the morning to the bakery that she runs and had an interesting conversation with her. tell us about her. at a couple questions about her when you would have. >> she was really remarkable and interesting woman. she is very tidy, short for me, she gets up, the alarm goes off at 1:45 a.m. she has to get to the bakery to make the donuts. she gets to the bakery. she has donuts, cupcakes, these little tea cakes and a multitude of different kind of cookies and
pastries and danishes. by 9:00 in the morning when i i get in there and start talking to customers, she's already been up for eight and a half hours. this is a woman has spent her entireife a a democrat. how democratic when she? she voted for bernie sanders in the primary in 2016. she says to me, i was born a democrat. my parents are democrats. my grandparents are democrats. i am married to democrat. i worked for democrats for 32 years. she started her career as a cook in the sheriff's office in jefferson, located along lake erie into the east of cleveland. wanted something more from her
life than being the cook in the sheriff's office. the same job for mom had. while she is raising her three kids and working full-time she decides to come go back to schd better herself. as she gets her degree and i believe the criminal law she works herself up through the years to becoming the deputy sheriff and she works there for 32 years. then she retires and she does her lifelong dream, and that's the only bakery. she opens the bakery across the street from the courthouse and she calls it legally sweet. her path to supporting donald trump was not an evolution. because between march and november, that's not an evolution. it is a revelation. she looked around her down and she said, my party has not done this down and this county well.
the town is falling apart. the crime is rising. unemployment is astronomical. opioids on the street. our kids are not being mobile. i'm going to go for something different, and she voted for trump. >> brad, , i want to ship to yo. some of what i read in this chapter reminded me of discussions we've had over the years as i try and figure out what the republican coalition is, where it's going of what a motivates these photos. we've had a lot of talk, discussions about this and i was thinking of you as i read this. just to reset a little bit, you're a republican political consultant, media consultant and you spend time trying to figure out how to motivate the right voters in the right places for your republican clients. there are two things here that i read, that i circled. one was when you're both right voting republican wasn't on the
table for her, meaning bonnie smith, until suddenly it was a few months later. there was this part and i thought of you and i think it relates to the discussion we had about second amendment rights and things like that, where bonnie says i look the other way for far too long and accepted i was supposed be more modern in my views when it wasn't comfortable with the views my parted starting to take him many the democratic party. they conclude this was a difficult decision that made and discuss it publicly, and i took a stand for myself, beliefs from a life and my country. can you talk about some of these cultural shifts that impacted the two party coalitions, what that meant for the president election? >> american political, the electorate is on the same access for dozens of years. dating back to the new deal. franklin roosevelt rebooked the democratic party in the mold of the working class ethos and economic equality.
from the 1960s for you to get to see cultural issues matter for democrats more. that drastically et cetera read in the obama administration. what economic equality became far less the driving ethos and multiculturalism and acceptance of multiculturalism if by force necessary became the driving ethos of the democratic party. that opened up whole new world of voters for republican nominee like donald trump. didn't open him up for mitt romney who seen as a corporatist mold, globalist mold but donald trump was different enough that these voters who would been at the democratic coalition and drawn to it by its historic ties to economic equality suddenly there opened up and they are free to vote on culture as opposed to voting on class. >> we had a discussion on election day 2016, and it still wasn't quite clear was going to happen but we know what the conventional wisdom was. that morning i i remember you telling me you thought the party
was chasing the coalition that it wanted rather than the coalition that was available. that's one thing that we didn't quite realize at the time but that's what president trump is doing, whether by instinct or design. he was chasing the coalition that was available to the republican party rather than the one that the party had talked about trying to create. >> for sure. after losses in 2008 and 2012 there was republican deep set of navelgazing that the party undertook for multiple years. the conclusion always was demographics are not on our side. they basically bought the democratic league argument which is democracy is destiny, not on our side. this is all but how do we broaden the ethnic composition of our electorate. the answer for at least victory in 2016 with something that was different, which was to go an increase of the number of votes that republicans pulled out of
smaller teamer dues and midsized communities and industrial communities. those notes were not ancestral republican. they were made available by the leftward shift of the democratic party. it was instinct perhaps on donald trump's part. in fact, i think all of his rantings and ravings in the primary about how he might run third party, he rule out republican party is mistreating me. that was a nice signal whether intentional or not it's true that with the signal to these people would never for photo republican, they made him their entry-level product to buy on the republican ship. >> i want to talk about a theme that is not going away since the president was inaugurated, and that is the ongoing tension between voters and the media. we see it in a different form 20 democratic voters and the so-called mainstream media.
but given we only have one primary at a time to talk about president trump, even this wiki tweeted about this idea of doing something he can't actually legally do which is to take away press credentials that are not granted by the government, though some people wonder if he he's talking about the white house take away press credentials if he doesn't think the coverage is fair or nice. this is something that plays very well with his base and i think somewhat well at least with the broader republican electorate that may not always like the way he challenges first amendment norms but does have a deep suspicion and disappointment with what it views as the mainstream media. two things about 2.2 and a book. one early in the book and when late in the book where you write trump use the red-hot scrutiny of journalists to polarize and galvanized a plurality of voters in primary after primary, , and then in the general elections. later in the book, sort of a
throwaway, and a longer sentence, you interviewed mr. edelman who talked about -- [inaudible] the shattering of the premise of expertise. i think both of these things put into each other and trump was able to use this to great effect. talk about how important his battle, his prodding of the media, has been to his support and how important was to his victory. >> the conservatives have always had a little bit more of a mistrust of the media. they always have felt as though they had been treated unfairly. whether that's true or not there's always been a strain of republicans, but in this broader coalition there is this brought a mistrust of a lot of things that are big. not just media but government and big business and big
hollywood. and so you take that mistrust of these bigger institutions and expertise, although you put a different way. how do you phrase it? >> it's a a lack of willingneso be curated. we want to be our own curators of things. when we were all going up, sears roebuck picked that one brand of tools for us. craftsmen. they picked that one brand of appliances, kenmore, that's what you got. that's it. the sears and roebuck buyers curator what we're going to get. we did then moved to a world we walmart generates a few brands, beat the price tenant has a lot of volume on the shelf but it is still some of curating it. today you go to amazon and buy whatever you want from everyone in the world. it can be at your door in four days. this is a new world where we as individuals don't have to have a filter for our choices.
>> let's talk about some of the archetypes in the book. i think that the archetypes, the elements of the trump coalition such a big part of the great revolt, and speedy by the way, brad picked all the names. that's why they are all awesome. >> branding expert. of course were talking with brad todd and salena zito about "the great revolt: inside the populist coalition reshaping american politics" here on series xm. salena, talk to me about some of your favorite archetypes named why brad, and maybe a couple of your favorite interviewees, the people that you come thousands of people but a couple of those that you interviewed that you just were intrigued by the most and what intrigued you about the? >> one of my favorites are girl gun power name by brad, and so these are suburban women who are
college educated, very successful in life, married with kids and they live in suburban america. one of the things that drove them come one of the most important things that drove them to the polls was their support of the second amendment. it is something that has not been i don't think has been talked about enough even afterwards, even today. i was at the nra convention last week and conversations i've had with women about this has been incredibly intriguing. there's one woman who owns a business. she's a cfo of a family business in kenosha, wisconsin, suburban wisconsin, and she was voting for her guns. she self-identified as a feminist. she is who you thought would've voted for hillary clinton, and there was a lot of social
pressure to do that. because that was so important to her, when we were sitting in the interview she is like yeah, i'm carrying now but i have a couple in my office. people look at me think i'm voting for hillary clinton. she says think again. she thinks that owning a gun and being able to protect yourself and her family is the most empowering thing as a woman and as a feminist. so i founder just fascinating. >> talk about some of the others that you met along the way. let's look at the archetypes this way. some of the archetypes are going to be somewhat predictable. you are going to look at red blood and blue-collar. >> that's the one that everybody parachuted in and saw. then there are the types like -- >> i think bratcher talk about the king cyrus christian. >> by the way, help us to understand what king cyrus
christian speedy king cyrus was a persian emperor who the israelites were in v-uppercase-letter, sent them back to jerusalem to rebuild the temple. >> you should know this. >> you should. there's a conservative evangelical speaker who coined this term during the campaign. we didn't come up with it but it described the notion among evangelicals that trump was perhaps someone who didn't agree, didn't identify by experience. he struggled sometimes when it talks about christianity. he has never asked for forgiveness. talks about get my little cracker and get my point and it talks about communion, struggles to expend what is a basic ritual for most christians. obviously if the connection is not there from a biographical or cultural sense. but as tony perkins who runs the family research council says i didn't pick trump because of
shared experiences. i picked him because of shared priorities. i mean shared values, shared diaries. the priority is to focus. they decide with god with republican candidates for one of us before and they didn't get it done. they didn't stop barack obama's assault on religious liberty. presley did outsource this job to the needs, toughest person we can find. they picked ultra. i watched this in person in iowa in a caucus progress. i was working for governor bobby jindal. i saw in iowa caucuses, watching the evangelicals. in a caucus process can evangelicals are not an important part, they are the biggest part. you watch a lot of these evangelical voters in iowa caucuses this person didn't say my first choice if ben carson or bobby jindal. people identify with. next choices ted cruz because i know he agrees with me and everything. my third choice of doctor. i'd be sitting there in my mouth
would drop open cohousing that the case was then they would say i'm not sure if carson or bob agenda can winter i'm not sure ted cruz can beat hillary. now trump, he something different. i don't know if she can handle him. in the end donald trump finishes second in iowa, a pretty strong second for someone who didn't really fit culturally. it really was a very pragmatic choice which i find inic because a lot of economic conservatives for years have accused the evangelical voter and the republican party not being pragmatic. they felt like they got behind candidates who are going to lose. lose. i can't count how many meetings i have sat through with chamber of commerce that republicans complaining about the lack of pragmatism of evangelical voters. voters. this time they were incredibly pragmatic. that's something that's not been noted. it's been over often many evangelicals supported the president, in the high '80s, but here's a guy who'd been married three times, used to go on howard stern all the time.
how did those voters come to back him, and huge numbers and show up? read the book, it was a struggle. she'll tell you it was a very hard choice but in the end she made a pragmatic choice. >> she didn't decide until she walked in the voting booth. >> let's talk about that more. so much of what critics the collision was either a sense of just overwhelming desire that something you had to be tried because nothing else at work. in other cases in the event a sense of desperation but i don't mean desperation in terms of these are people that were desperate but just think to themselves, as brad said i'd vote for the guy that agrees with me forever and nothing is changed. what else am i going to do? you interviewed on talking talo voters like this for years headquartered in pittsburgh and roaming around the rust belt. talk to me about the evolution of voters that would always put character first and always said
to themselves there's no way i i can vote for a doctor because of the way he asked up in the way he acted before, to get to a point with the said to themselves, first, i think i need to consider voting for donald trump, and second, almost because of the kind of character he is as opposed to in spite of the kind of character he is. >> a lot of them don't like his character flaws but did you like that he stands up for the things that are important to them. it goes back to the pragmatic decision that they didn't see anybody, what, 17 people that first ran in the republican primary? they didn't see anyone on the state is going to stand up for them. as they will load down to each person, they started to gravitate more and more towards him. much to the shock and consternation of either establishment republicans or reporters who were dumbfounded.
brad and i been talking about this happening on the ground since when the republicans first loss in 2006. the republicans lost the democrats in swing districts, but they lost to these moderate democrats who were pro-life, pro-gun, fiscally conservative. i think if we continue to have these wild swings in the middle, in these election cycles, and then a recession happens, and then technology is sort of blowing everything up. people i say trade, a lot of it has to do with automation. we are going to see a populist president, we both laugh and whenever that would be a guy with goldplated name over his building and has, like you said, three wise and his own airplane.
-- wives. this has been brewing for a while. people just have paid attention to it. we have wild swings in midterm elections. the electorate is telling you something. >> the notion of swing voters, very relevant. if you look, ohio had 25 or 35 counties 125 points of were 2012 election in 2016 election. 23 counties in wisconsin switch from obama to try. 32 counts and i will which is a future of the counties and i will switch from obama to try. 12 counties in michigan switch. a lot of people tell you there are not any swing voters left. it's just a motive in your base, get more for people to show up. you look at a place like ohio where bonnie smith is from, that county voted for democrats all the way back. you can't even come you can continue look back.
typically about 55%. of those impulse mid 50s on the other side. there was a swing voter waiting. that person was west of philadelphia and east of denver. that's what the swing voter was looking out in this election. >> talk about how integral the great recession was in helping to create this coalition. obviouy i know you both make this point several places that the book that this is a coalition that trump, and not to take any credit away from them but the sense that trump exploded, they do recognize and understood it but that was forming irregardless of him emerging on the scene. that's the sort of messiah took with the book that i feel what you believe this coalition is more durable maybe than others think. talk about how the role of the recession created in fueling the
coalition, what do you think it takes for us to stay together after trump in 20242024? >> i'll throw a date out and densely can talk about that. ashville ohio city, county about 90,000 people today. had 98,000 people roughly in 1970. the countries, 59% in that time. the workforce in asheville is the same as it was in the debts of the great recession, just eight years ago. the rest of the country bounce back four years ago. things are not good anywhere in america. we found in a research and we surveyed 2000 trump voters in these five states, swing states in the midwest, you'll find the sure that in the book if you buy it, they are very optimistic about their own personal financial situation. that is a mystery for you are seeing about a lot of washington
publications is a they are pessimistic doubt on the people. they are pessimistic about their own survival and economic situation. they are scared to death about their community. i don't know a source of durable it is whether we can go back to the old way anytime soo one of the interviewees salena found has a great way of looking at. >> dee's diner right by wilkes-barre, and walk in and it's just like perfect diner with the chrome countertop picus and you walk in the first thing most people agree to buy the usual? the answer is they use. everybody knows avidity. it's like the cheers of diners. and it is sitting in the back and he has been a democrat. just completely tied to
democratic party his entire life. he was a union steward. he began as a union steward and he worked his way up to be an arbitrator for the afl-cio. he was pretty powerful in union. in the position he was the guy who always brought some of them like the guy i was standing on the stage next to bill clinton or al gore or john kerry or michael the caucus. he was so ingrained in the democratic party. he voted for bernie sanders in 2016 in the primary in pennsylvania. but he found himself about midsummer taking a look at this race and saying, i forgot to go with trump because the democratic party, democratic party just isn't there for the working people. he had been in charge of all the working people in this county. he has seen the economic
devastation. when president trump on inauguration day said, what did he call the speedy forgotten men and women. >> and he also said there is carnage. he said there was carnage in america. people laughed at him. i was in several panels where people were making a joke about it. there's carnage out there. ed sought. they're trying trying to save it. they decided, he made a very strong decision that is going to flip and leave the democratic party behind. for someone that ingrained in the party, that was a remarkable to me to see that change in him. this guy was incredibly successful in the democratic party. it wasn't like he was just some union guy who just work and a shot. he was instrumental in the strength of that union. the fact that he went to a trump rally, i was at this rally,
that's not right make them though. he went to the trump rally in wilkes-barre, and when he got there, local news people saw him and they are like what's going on? he's like i'm supporting trump. i guess i'm going to have to resign from the labor council, because he was the president of the labor council. >> union point is a valid one. there was a time when labor wagged the dog of the democratic party. walter mondale -- went afl-cio endorsed him it at 13.7 million members. when it endorsed hillary clinton at 12.5 million members. i wasn't a loss of million members. because 92 million americans would go to participate in this election 1,036,000,000 americans. the electorate has gotten 50%
bigger ethic afl-cio is a small piece of it in raw numbers. there's a reason democrats have felt comfortable marching towards cosmopolitanism and not worrying about the blue-collar worker because it just makes it a much smaller piece of the pie. >> you elaborate on this in the book where you show the difference over the past 30 years now between the top fortune 500 companies in 92, and what they are today. >> i want to do this from memory but i think there were seven companies that from 1972-1982 when bill clinton got elected in the top ten fortune companies in america, and/or six from 1960 to which they to 62, there are no input in america voted before that right now. there are five people some are casting their ballots from the nursing home somewhere that voted in effect before that. now it is i think three. >> to be clear as i get it right in the book you can see the difference between the fortune
25 in 62, 92 and 16. and you see over time the sorts of companies and closed the sorts of people they employ has shifted remarkably, and down the list and some have completely disappeared from the list are the kind of blue-collar union workers that were so prevalent in the democratic party years ago, and much more prevalent in the electric. >> they also are replaced by companies that have a whole lot more to do with outsourcing, apple, people make their products in asia, walmart, people to import their products in asia with cvs and of the healthcare companies that depend on government payment schedules for the income. you see an evolution from the manufacturing country to country that is depend on asian lamest of america labor and depend on government payment. that helps you track the trends of white people in government and white people in business
have, are making different decision without regard for people who work with rains everyday. >> we're here with brad todd and salena zito authors of "the great revolt: inside the populist coalition reshaping american politics" on sirius/xm. celine and brad, i wanted to ask you the question, to the question about the durability of the coalition. sometimes coalitions to win election. there are two questions here. one, is this for the foreseeable future the new republican party coalition, when some, lose some, this is what's available to them? and just doing the saw president barack obama create a coalition that worked so well with him on the ballot but not so well with hillary clinton on the ballot, how much of the potency of this coalition is dependent do you believe, and we can only know what we know today, on trump being the head of that coalition versus whoever is accessed at the top of the ticket will be whenever that will be?
>> go ahead. >> elections are binary, and i'm going to make a prediction and it's tough to make predictions in the age of trump. you look like a full before spoken with. i didn't think trump would be the republican nominee for a long time. i think my prediction be the democrats in 2020 will nominate someone who makes hillary clinton and barack obama look like centrists. as democrats continue to further left you open up even more people that would be available to president trump in the end he doesn't have to be everything everyone wants them to be. he just has to be better than his democratic opponent and better than them in a certain number of states. what does he went, what does you lose? i i can answer the question. i think the republican, the new framework that's been emerging, begin to emerge after the 2006 midterms which other real estate collapse, the 2008 wall street
collapse and tarp which drastilly made a lot of grassroots republicans rethink the republican party relationship with wall street big business. that's how the tea party was created. we had been heading distraction for a while were democrats represent mainly the sensibilities of the 28% of the country that exist outside i-5 and i-95. if your in the county on interstate or toward the water from the interstate you're going to reflect the democratic sensibilities of coastal cosmopolitan. if you're 72% the country in the middle, a disparate number of you will have different worldview. that enduring framework is going to go for while and republicans will win some and democrats will win some. >> celina, for years before you wrote the book, the four trump, in 2016 you were writing about a growing discontent in a large part of the country.
you were writing about the fact people were going more disenchanted with the twoajor political parties and the choices of the politicians that were available to them. a lot of it has to do with changes in the global economy, changes in the national economy, the transition we've been experiencing in the 21st century. in talking to the people that you did all these years and especially for "the great revolt," how much of this populist moment has been anchored in all of that discontent? the point of the question is its only people that i talk to, so many people that would learn so much from "the great revolt" want to know how long this pump is going to last. so it makes me think what happens if all the people you've been interviewing turnout in about a year or so to be happy with the system? this is again not to mistake
that there are unhappy people who have followed the pied piper of trump, but they've been unhappy with washington, unhappy with the parties that are serving to. so what if five years from now or two years from the or tomorrow they say the government is wanted it to do and this particular undercurrent discontent even if they're happy with the own life started to recede? how might that impact this moment that we've seen. >> with maybe if the government moved to cleveland, ohio, it would have a better idea. it would break apart quicker. when i come here to washington, d.c. i'm always sort of like -- >> you still have a football curse. >> i am a steelers fan. >> which is why you will not watch and moved to --
>> brad wrote a a great piece f moving the republican apparatus to cleveland, to be more dutch. >> i have a hard time with that. >> cleveland is awesome. >> there's a library in cleveland. jason, there's so much discontent though that people make choices may not have otherwise made. how important is that to their realistic to keep making fees -- >> i can base my assessment, my guess on history. historically populist movements typically lasts about 25 years. there was the temperance movement. there have been all kinds of movements throughout the country, and throughout the years. you have to put that in perspective. but you also have to, the progressive movement, the one in the 20th century. you also to think about sort of where we are in this. this is the peak here we are
about here. so my hands are really far apart. i forgot we were on radio. my hands are really far apart. i don't believe in maybe you can tell me different, but think we're going to be come were going to be feeling this coalitions imprint probably at least until 2024. you should make the point about how it's impacting not just politics. talk about the nfl. >> the answer is had to democrats react to it. republicans reaction to this populist moment is instinctive. you saw with the trade, transpacific partnership, the trade your most recent of the table, in the 2016 election, notably to republican senators who campaign in opposition to it. all you need to know about the republicans understand where the work is right now. rob portman and patrick to me.
rob portman, a free trader if there ever was one. hat to iran the club for growth in its entire mission was to support free trade republicans. he voted time and time again for free trade dlsith very proud of it. as a house member. pat toomey and rob portman campaigned against the tpp in the campaigned on the ballot in 2016. republican elected officials understand where in a coalition that is a little different than the one that perhaps they all signed up for when the begin running for office. the question of how did democrats handled it. this for in the compensation the democratic party is basically said good riddance to the trump voted. glad you were gone. we will continue to pursue this force multiculturalism and demography will catch up eventually for us. i'm leery of that demography destiny argument is peoples lives change, their priorities
change as the agent move through life. you never can say -- parties have to win the election that they are in. right now there are a lot besides the point to the fact that democrats are not adjusting to this coalition and reclaim those new deal voters in certain economic equality voters that they previously had. we also of the pieces of evidence. politics, this is not only happen in politics and we should not confine a social political discussion because this populist movement effects of thing we do. we live in wilbur a world wered leaders are just as cocooned as lytic leaders. charles murray, his book "coming apart", if you read, go back and reread the book the usa that election makes more sense to me now. he talked about 882 super zip codes that are home to the most decision-makers in america on
major cultural institutions, media institutions, political institutions and how controlled institution of being centralized in these highly educated upper income places even as a culture becomes more interconnected, our institutions and decision-making begin to have their controls centralized. points out the head of a man appliances news going up in iowa ved in small-town iowa. today that of a major corporation is not going to live in small-town iowa. they will live in fairfax county, virginia, and it will be surrounded by other people with the same exact economic educational profile as they do. if you look at what happened with the national football league, "wall street journal" had a huge editorial on this about losing their core audience. they were the number one opinion poll of washington. this was the gold standard. the national football league was so gold standard for any brand.
united all classes, all economic levels but after the colin kaepernick situation with the nfl basically picked a side in every political way, we tested the nfl january, our company messaging, we tested them in january of 2013. tested them again in january of 2018. the fall was incredible. republican voters, then in which change over those five years was 91 points. among independents and was 35. a drop among millennials was the group they were aiming at with her decision-making presumably. the only educational group that was favorable to national football league in january 2010f 2010 at the end of the colin kaepernick fiasco, the only group was post grads, high school degree holders, some college, college graduates, all net negative on the nfl. i would not say phd is a target market for professional sports league.
the decision-maker of the nfl group were brilliant people no doubt. they built the nfl into the greatest property known to man. brilliant people but they do exist on park avenue in new york. >> i i want to make a point abot roseanne. nobody anticipated that roseanne would be a huge it before came out. nobody. everybody thought this will be cute. people watch it for nostalgia and then it will just died out. she debuted with the highest readings sensibly 2007 or 2008. she did that because she was able to portray a trump voter, not i would say like he didn't glorify them but she did in a way that made them authentic. in a way people could see themselves in that voter. the proof that this coalition is intact and strong and is growing, look at the media market that put that number one. typically it is new york, los angeles and chicago.
it wasn't. they didn't even make the top 20. it was paul's oklahoma cincinnati, ohio, and pittsburgh, pennsylvania, my hometown that when the top three and he was of the middle america towns that field in the gap. but new york and los angeles chicago was in there, but only because it was based, the show is based in chicago. people watching it from chicago. new york and los angeles didn't drive the numbers. a were not part of that power, but middle america was. that's important. you see tim allen show last man standing which was canceled, despite its high ratings has now been brought back by fox. >> fast dating. we are with salena zito and brad todd, author of the "the great revolt," now the fun part. time for audience questions.
yes? >> looking towards the future, what has trump done that has done any for these people? you never know where he stands. other than the supreme court justice which any of the 16 republicans would've chosen. healthcare is in shambles. what are you looking at that makes them happy and optimistic? >> i wouldn't downplay the supreme court justice because it was -- to read the book, all these people stories like the vacancy that antonin scalia left cast a a very large shadow over the election. it's a mate evangelicals so pragmatic. i will grant you all 16 of those republican candidates, 15 or 17, whatever would've made a good selection if they had one. a lot of voters decided that typical republican candidate wasn't going to win. that's why they went with the trunk.
>> that list was out. >> no question the federalist society, that you should list in april 2016 and i think is the second list later. these are the people i would choose. that list itself was side of actors on the road over and over and over. i knew what i would get. so different it became a transaction, a a transaction ty could trust. that pushback on culture is something that does every day. the fact that trump is in many ways the president has a very good killer instinct, and he works, people like the fact he takes on their enemies and he takes on people they think are against their interests. he stands up to them without fear or favor. that i think in the and that of unvarnished zest with which he goes after those on the other side of the cultural divide, i think i would not diminish that. a lot of social conservatives feel very besieged right now.
i think the deck is stacked against them in the national press and government and corporate suite to run the country. and to see someone so unabashedly defend their defenses. that's no small thing. >> i would deathly not discount the tax reform benefit. [inaudible] >> asking about where i live. they had seen plenty of benefits. they see bonuses. they see a couple hundred dollars extra in a paycheck. that means a lot for some who lives in western pennsylvania. >> the way the democrats handle it i think drives a when they say it is scraps, crohn's, worthless, this is armageddon. that reinforces to them a couple thousand bucks doesn't mean much to democrats and they would rather oppose trump and give me a thousand dollar bonus. >> and they're happy with what's going on with north carolina, north korea. >> just a calamity. i was wondering how you reconcile the disconnect, the interviewees had as part of the great revolt coalition that they
wished that mr. trump would tweet less, get the analysis within your book and i think it's worthwhile, indicates the social media platform was an essential workaround for a media that was hostile or hypercritical of the president. >> a lot of these voters when they see the tweet, if they don't see at live, so this he reported on television and in the sea like 13 different panels talking about how bad that tweet was. that makes him like a little bit embarrassed, but it doesn't make them not supported. they just think gee, i really wish you wouldn't do that come in the way you would say that about your kid or your uncle bill, like gee, i love him to pieces but a really wish he wouldn't do that. >> i think it is become code for a way to politely talk about deportment. to say i wish
say he says some things in some ways i disapprove of but a general agree his agenda. become a handle the way to say i'm not in full agreement with everything he does but directionally i'm happy. >> next question. >> in the appendix you show of the 2000 people, 70% plus identify republican, identify with trump being the more patriotic between trump and obama. and 70% did did not vote for obama in either election. it implies that other 30%-ish is in play. what would it take to push them back in the other direction? >> there are two groups of voters in play. the previously democrat or previously obama voter that went for president trump are very much in play for democrats, if they do the right thing. i also think high income suburban voters, those who vote for pat toomey but didn't vote
for trump, i think those are in play. we have two groups of swing voters were we presume we didn't have any two years ago according to many experts. the first thing democrats would have to do is make home for people, for whom religious faith is a big deal. they feel like the democrats are hostile and if you like the democrats take a cultural coastal elites approach. if the democrats were to widen out and said recorded in peoples right to worship, however they choose, we were respect the religious traditions, stop the assault on the second amendment, i think that's what it would take. >> i agree, totally agree. >> a question about generation gap, just as far as older conservatives, younger conservatives or just young people in general. do you see them joining this kind of movement that you're seeing, or do do you think this is something that there is a gap where some of the country is
trending more leftward at a millennial age? >> voters today will tell you that millennials that broke very hard for hillary clinton, life changes people. we'll see what happens. there is a swing group and -- >> there's also jin z which if you break them, they get lumped in with millennials but there's a generation after them. they are much more conservative and they supported trump but because there's this small gap, they are a small population, just getting into becoming voters, but i think they are much more independent, conservative independent voters. it will be interesting to follow them the next ten years. >> i think we have time for one more question. >> hey, , guys, great book.
a really quick question. ron brownstein wrote the book in the atlantic in january, and he goes through all of the district groups of people, ethnically, educational, economically that support the president, and towards the middle to the end of that column he talks about african-americans, and something that i found to be extremely intriguing was the fact that 23% of african-american men support the president. this was after charlottesville, et cetera. i would like to hear you guys perspective on why do you think in comparison to black women who support the president at 11% do you see this sort of 20% and some folks have said it is increasing, why is that? >> it's just anecdotally, but the experiences that i have in interviews of his i've had with african-american men, i had those interviews where they are like yeah, our pocketbooks are doing, there's more in my
paycheck. i like, they like that sort of like stand up to the system. they identify with that. like evangelicals they are willing to look past some of his flaws because they want to be more pragmatic. at the end of the day our culture does drive a lot of elections but economics really, really does. what do you think, brad? >> maybe you could finish up by talking about some of the issues the president has had with the numbers across the board. >> the president, you can take any demographic group and evildoers with women than it does with men. that's what we profiled two groups of all females in the book that were more important because the president performs with so much more worse with women. therefore, any women who did stay with the president are noteworthy, who otherwise could of been peeled off.
women who were targeted by the clinton campaign. one of the groups, silent suburban females. they didn't want to tell their friends they were voting for president trump. 20 something percent of trump voters did want to kill the friends they were voting for him because they feared their fans would disapprove and that number is far, far larger with one. especially upper income and upper educated women. you saw those numbers even higher. the other was girl gone power. there was a group of women even though they were targeted by hillary clinton to help her break the glass ceiling, she ran an ad that was reflective that shows the president being lewd and crude and profane and television. it was through the come you saw the ad the eyes of children watching. i tested that all of the country and it was great until every clinton came on the ad at the end and then it tanked. there was a hesitancy on the part of voters to endorse that part of the president, sort of
temperament, but as a group that we profiled called girl gone power the supreme court issue was just too important. >> the book is "the great revolt: inside the populist coalition reshaping american politics." the authors are salena zito and brad todd. thanks so much for joining us. this is serious ex-im potus channel. go pick up a copy, read it, market up and keep it handy. it's going to help. [applause] [inaudible conversations] >> thank you all for coming. did everybody get a a book? >> there are books right outside the studio.
we do rational meaning, every minute of our lives. where did that come from? it came from the evolution of emotional centers, and the massive cerebral memory capacity that we acquired enabling those actions that were emotionally guided. and where did those come from? they came from a million years of what we call hunter gatherer life. our ancestors, the ones that created humanity and history, you should keep in mind, did not begin with the origin of literacy 6000 years ago. it did not begin with the origin of the neolithic period it began a million years ago with an
existence that depended upon intimate relation to the natural world, and appreciation of all of the natural worlds policies, a love of a home that one forms in the natural world. it's inevitable, deeply in our thinking we should turn to great satisfaction and imagine a seat of power in the world that gave us birth. >> it's pretty hard to top that, but i think that if you would like to give -- if you could give it a shot. >> i'll give it a shot. i think ed also points out and
often tell my wife that we only recently came inside. that as a species we been outside for millions of years, and there is a deep spiritual connection to that. and in my experience in the national parks that i could take any individual, regardless of their socioeconomic, ethnic background to the rim of the grand canyon or to the hh sea areas to see the milky way, or just stand in need the giant sequoias, and they are moved. there is something that happens to those individuals in those spaces. to honor terri here was so gracious to write the introduction to the book that we have written, i want to read a little section from the introduction. terry has the extraordinary
skill of writing eloquently about our public lands and our parks and she has a deep spiritual side as well and she often draws from her experiences of the native americans of our nation who often practiced that spiritual connection. in one conversation with utah -- a guy that i to know, willie gray eyes, he said this is not a time for anger. it is time for healing. our public lands and waters, deserts, forests, prairies, our national parks and monuments, wildlife refuges and free-flowing -- free-flowing rivers are our common ground, natural inheritance to be passed on from one generation to the next. they are our soul geographies, the landscapes of our
imaginations, the seabed of an ecological state of mind. we're not only inspired by keeled i nations sense of integrity, harmony and wholeness each time i stand at the needles overlooking canyon national park, in the midst of this vast emotional landscape, carved and created to wind and water in time, deep time, i have the sensation of being very, very small and yet very, very large at once. the navajo have word for this kind of violence and beauty. we are one with the universe. without a spiritual dimension to our work as conservation is where only working for ourselves, not the future and certainly not for future generations of all species. >> you can watch this and other programs online at booktv.org. >> c-span, where history unfolded daily.