tv FCC Chair Ajit Pai on Net Neutrality CSPAN June 14, 2018 8:21am-8:58am EDT
executive officer brian moynihan on the companies responsible growth strategy. thank you, bank of america. >> responsible growth means to me is very straightforward. the four elements, it's got to grow, the right way with the customers, wright risk management and on a sustainable basis. the rule of banks have success. our job is to help the community to and be successful. whatever might be driving it. whether it's via text or traditional manufacturer or anything in between our job is to affect unity the successful. to up its housing markets grow. what we have is that each piece piece,. >> please welcome axios managing editor kim hart.
[applause] >> thank you so much for being here. my pleasure to introduce fcc chairman ajit pai to the stage to apply the conversation about the internet. welcome. >> thank you. >> thank you again for joining us early in the morning. you had a busy week. some people in the audience may know this but you and i worked together at the fcc for about three years. i was the press secretary there while you were commissioner and now you are the ceo in charge. that's exciting. >> we miss you. >> thank you. >> thank you again for being here. i wanted to jump right in with just the news of the we can get some of your thoughts and then we would jump in around what else the fcc working on. >> i have a firm stand on ihop
name change. >> it's been a momentous week for internet policy and something you do with him for a long time over there. monday the fcc officially dissolve net neutrality rules that a been in place since 2015. on tuesday at&t's merger with time warner was effectively approved with no conditions. and then yesterday we now have a bidding war for 21st century fox with comcast over disney. in a lot of ways what entry kind of a new era for the internet. at least in terms of internet policy and how consumers get their content, internet clearly still works even though the net neutrality rules are gone, the on switch is still firmly on. know one has those a huge difference right now. the concern is that we may start to see differences in how consumers interact with the internet going forward, depending on how the fcc and other regulators intervene.
i wanted to get your thoughts on given all of these changes and their happening put rapidly what is your hope for the internet? what kind of interesting hope to see going forward after your chairmanship? >> first and foremost i want to thank you and axios for hosting me. it's a pleasure to meet congressman schiff backstage. the internet is one of the greatest innovations in history. it is hard to remember this because live in the day-to-day but if you go back to 22 years ago when the congress last pronounced judgment on what in the policy should be, looking at a different era. the internet has become intertwined with everything we do, how we serve this is a, educator kids, get healthcare, help grow our crops and the like that it's increasingly abortive access to the internet. my goal going for is the light touch approach of the sec once but much more infrastructure investment, to get more people on the right side of the digital divide. there's many millions of americans who don't have access what insufficient competition. we want to change it to make
sure every american has digital opportunity. we also want consumers to be protected both through transparency will that requires every internet service provider big or small to disclose its business practices and with aggressive federal trade commission enforcement retargeting actor that is behaving in an anti-competitively. light touch approach served us well for about 20 years. going for the internet will be better than ever. >> a lot of, pretty much the major in the providers have said they also believe in net neutrality. they don't plan on blocking or throttling or creating fast lanes with the sec transparency rules. they do enter some sort of business arrangement or offer a new bundle or service that changes the way consumers get content or bundle come how to see the data with pay for it would have to disclose that. >> absolute. if you don't do that it is a violation pic in addition if it's an ethic of infringement the ftc has brought authority on
an fair and deceptive trade practice authority or unfair authority. the new chairman of the ftc has did before congress inhering in which i testified as well that he is willing to determine to do just that. >> do you intend, do you think the sec and ftc will work closely together to try to figure out if the company is transparent with you guys and never completely fcc but the ftc may have considered what that means for consumers and competition landscape come you guys work together on. >> was not only will become we are. we have a memorandum of understanding with sign that i spoken to chairman simons about the need to share information on a real-time basis. going forward we will work hand in glove to make sure that consumers are protected, we had a competitive marketplace. >> you talked with reports of investment and infrastructure make sure we get more people on the right side of the digital divide. when we are talking about these
large providers and making sure that less regulation will help incentivize them to put more money back into the networks, are you concerned about some of these companies focusing more on the already urban areas, helping make sure they can accommodate increasing traffic there rather than putting their money into expanding their infrastructure into the hard-to-reach areas? >> this is the social problem with internet policy in the united states, there is simply not a business case to serve many parts of the country which are rural. not many people per square mile surrey get less return of investment or to point fiber and/or they are low income so people would not be up to afford the services. to me we need to have serious national effort nor to promote much more access. the fcc is doing that. the license regulations were adopted across the board to try to modernize our rules to encourage companies, smaller
companies that are critical to provide access, to give them a stronger business case are reaching those individuals. one example of what uses a small company serves the parts of vermont that the big play simply don't server don't want to serve. they submitted a letter unsolicited to the fcc and the senate appropriations committee which is set for the first time when investing $4 billion to upgrade our 4g lte service that world vermonters, spending many more millions on fiber deployment and whittemore optimistic about the future than we ever have been and the light touch market-based approach of the fcc is a major reason why. that letter is posted on the internet. happy to share with anyone if you're interested but that's a simple example of the power of the writer to approach in d.c. shaping our companies are willing to attack the digital divide. >> in some ways it is less about the role of the companies that have the resources to comply with regulations but it's more so about the small players who
are operating in these communities who don't have the resources press to do with it? >> i think that's right. another example, rocket fiber, folks in detroit who were dissatisfied with some of the services the incumbent were providing some of those incumbents were not serving parts of the trip that a been written off for decades. they decide we want to do something about it and they run into roadblocks here nuts and bolts stuff like a quicker and she began to get access to you till the polls or we get access to the conduit, the pipe to go underground? these are the companies necessary to provide a more competitive marketplace in detroit and provide access in some of these parts of the city. we want to have a light touch approach because, in terms of access and competition. >> unit said you think rolling back the net neutrality rules will be better faster cheaper internet and help the competition. how will the fcc determined that? is it anecdotal?
you have a lot of ways of tracking data and extensive report on the state competition. how do you think the fcc should continue to track that? is there a need for better data, more data? if you find that one of those values, if it's not ending up being faster or cheaper or not as much competition as you might atoka or prefer, you think the fcc should consider taking action? >> we measure it if you didn't waste but for some for most every broadband provider submits form 447 they have to detail their broadband services. aggregating 58 he gives us a picture of what internet access is and what isn't and where the trends are from your to you. we also have a number of different programs that with some pickled universal service fund, $10 billion fund that subsidizes telecom buildout for parts of the country. we holding next month and auction to put fixed broadband service to answer parts of
america. next year we hope to get 4g lte to answer parts of america and we track as of these providers are getting the sons in building out how that is going. that's on the aggregate level. on the personal level i make it up or to try to collect as many parts of the country as i can to see where speedy you can do something like 28 states already? >> puerto rico repealing in the wake of hurricane marie. to me it just helps to underscore the importance of our effort. the promise of internet access in some parts of the country, companies are now building business and trading jobs thanks to high-speed fiber. some of the challenges in places like west virginia where a resort for many years was unable to attract as many customers as it would like because they lack access to internet. we want to make sure we get a sense both personally and affordably through the process about how -- getting promoted with ford. >> we were talking about the big
platform companies, the net neutrality fight in a lot of ways this kind of scene as this ongoing battle between the big platform companies, google, facebook, amazon, netflix of the world and internet service providers like verizon on comcast and at&t. if we're seeing at&t, now owned directv, will own time warner, also is broadband service. comcast also is a number of different platforms. verizon is getting into the area. are you saying and internet that is made up of an almost controlled by these huge companies that a lot of market leverage and can in some ways be the gatekeepers for the internet? >> with the caveat that none of my comment would be construed, and opinion but any any transaction or transaction could be pending, the usual caveat, we do want to make sure there is a competitive marketplace.
that involves taking a a holisc view of what the market structure is. this is a task for the federal trade commission and department justice antitrust division. they do also want to have a denominator, the marquis is changing very, very quickly and so few digital appetite is good example. what does it mean for the overall in the economy? that something competition authorities particularly ftc and the doj will be interested in going forward. >> is that almost a case for allowing different kinds of combinations to create a new form of competition for the advertising powerhouses like google facebook you just mentioned? >> i can't express an opinion that because there could be,, there are, could be pending transactions. i will say we die with on a case-by-case basis. we don't start with the premise which is it's good or bad and
then work backward from that to express an opinion about a transaction. we do the particular transaction determined as best we can weather that transaction would be in the public's interest. start from the ground up i guess. >> we talked about the broadband networks that are in the cramps or speak. let's talk about wireless for a minute. you have made it a a huge prioy to make sure you are freeing up a lot of the spectrum, title spectrum over the next couple of years to fuel in particular 5g networks. talk about the pipeline that the fcc is try to put in place. >> i'm excited about the promise the 5g. as consumers rely on their smartphones and other mobile devices, the world is going wireless. as we enter, now in the 4g era as most people know and love but the 5g era could promise even better consumer benefits. superfast wireless connections, high-capacity from everything from virtual reality, gaming, artificial intelligence, machine
learning and the like. we want to make sure we set the stage for the u.s. to maintain leadership in wireless and a particular 5g. that requires spectrum policy that smart and for thinking and for such a policy that thinking. expect inside we been very aggressive in trying to open up more of the wireless spectrum band, the airways for commercial use. holding america's first budget auctions and my lucius this coming november, 20 megahertz hurtful by the 24 megahertz band. the fcc teed up a a number different bands for consideration. we want to make sure we finish as much spectrum out there for every wireless auto to double use. in addition to the hype and spectrum i just, we look at mid-band and low band spectrum. all of us rely on wi-fi we think there's potential for unlicensed spectrum in the mid-bands. this would enable the next generation of entrepreneurs to experiment, what is the next
great unlicensed technology like wi-fi? we're confident people will be able to figure it out if we set the table for it. >> how do you balance the need to make sure that we are, that the u.s. is staying had in terms of 5g development and pulling out of the next generation networks, along with other huge priority which is closing the digital divide, consider shuswap of the country. 2g and 3g. how'd how do you balance with te resources go between the future of the internet and vacation were keeping up with china and south korea and others versus the ones are still just trying to get on to the things we take for granted everyday? >> great question. part of the reason what i travel around because i recognize there are parts of the country that are still struggling just to get the 4g lte access winter in this building today. part of it involves and turns went quickly making maintain leadership and pushing her spectrum bands out there. part of it in terms of a pictue the other parts of the country that are on the wrong site at
the digital divide keep up involve updating of regulation. making sure the rules for strong as possible for company to build the wireless towers and avoid the small cells that are necessary for these airways to be used. 5g could have a very powerful business case in rural america. precision agriculture i was in charles city virginia where i visited the owner of redwood farms. the world record holder for corn yield, five and 42 bushels per acre. part of the reason why is because he has pretty strong 4g access. imagine what he could do with 5g and monitor incredible precision every square foot of his cropland. figure out where the fertilizer needs to become what doesn't need to be, deploying the water across the field a very smart way. these are the things 5g could portend and i'm confident we get the infrastructure out there in rural america we can create a business case are doing that. incredible benefits. she would n roll america city on the shelf in some cases because
they don't have access to the next generation technology. >> a huge benefit of these next-generation technologies and the faster speeds and all the data that is being treated by the computing that is happening is artificial intelligence, machine learning. you are working on something that it wanted to let you talk a little bit. >> one of the best aspects about this job is learning about new technologies. i don't think there's ever been a better time on active time to work at the fcc. i feel like every day or every week there's some new technology that i'm learning about and reading about and listening to podcasts about. how can fcc overall state of rest of some of these developments? what i like to do going forward you start convening some forums or four i guess for you latinate sticklers out there which he fcc can bring in some experts to talk to somebody technologies. we are going to cover hopefully a number of different topics but what i like to do is by the end of your start with a four-month
artificial intelligence, machine learning. this this is a huge area of innovation that will have tremendous effects on society. we want to explore what they can mean for business operating in the marketplace. consumer side, a couple days ago i do chance to meet with the team from for microsoft networf something called seeing ai which is a research project to help people with disabilities, low vision to be able to describe to them the world around them using the ai tools. that's an exciting harbinger of what ai can mean for consumers. same thing on the business side. how will it affect our companies, use spectrum more smartly. that's one of the things we want to explore. hopefully we will convene that by the end of the year and maybe more with time to come. >> with the promise of artificial intelligence also comes downside that a lot people product especially comes to kits and have technology, the more we
are staying at her phones enabled by these wireless networks and the more aware like on these apps that almost like him there incentivized to make them as addicted to us as possible just to give a stingley, keep us online. we both have two kids. do you fear for your kids interact with the internet and communications in general as you mention such an increasing central part of all of our lives? >> it's a positive potential negative two. positive, some the programs because able to watch on ipad are really educational. i think it's great to see them learn to some of these application. on the other hand, i do worry a little bit about how it changes when you interact with the world. when we grew up, you only to 11 but when i was going up anyway, the world was defined to the analog communication system, three broadcast jellico local newspaper. i just think i wonder sometimes or my kids cognitive processes
shape by interact with something on a screen as opposed to reading something on a printed page? one of the things i will try to think about as we raise them, we want them to be wholly functioning, well adapted members of society so you want them to look at the world around them. in addition to what they see on the screen. it's a challenge for parents. >> one of the things i have noticed is with the algorithms that tell you what's next new story to read of what present, movies or shows are documented or advertising to target the people be so what they've already seen. you are almost seeing and more curated version of the world rather than something that you and i grew up with where a bit more flat and open in some ways. in some ways making the internet more open has made some ways a bit more narrow. is there a role for the fcc, or regulation in general? >> i'm not sure if it's a formal record wall but that's when
things i think about as appeared so don't let them serve on youtube unattended. i went to see what the next video is there watching in addition to the one about the starfish and might happen to watch. we don't want them to go down the rabbit hole for a variety of different reasons. it is something a lot of parents are struggling with. we want our kids to be able to learn about everything in the world and that's one of the great things about the internet now. a lot of people forget not long ago to learn about these things you're to crack open the encyclopedia britannica or go to your public library and to find out whatever you could. it was hard to get access to information. the great thing is everything is at your fingertips. the danger is as you pointed out sometimes you can just in the focusing on a real narrow little sliver of the world, and to construe that as the entirety of the world. i don't want my kid, i don't think anybody wants their kid to have that narrow of a vision. >> at the end of your tenure at the fcc, you've been there for a while.
what do you think defines success for your as the chairman? >> to me closing the digital divide. if we can make -- our time will be viewed as a success. increasingly, as i said society becomes increasing did in on the digital platform, it follows that people don't have access to those digital platforms are going to be left behind. that pain specimen who grew grew up in rural america. i go back to my own town and to some people are on the wrong side of the digital divide you don't have access. i don't want that to happen. i'm confident in the heart of every american lies the thirst to get themselves and her kids a better life. i want to make sure they have the opportunity to do that, to extend opportunity millions more would be something that's great. a controversy of the date and people clashing with a great with this policy or that one, but at the end of the day what really is going to matter and where marketers can debate is helping give people onto the net, given access to
technologies that will enable them to build a better future. >> thank you so much for being here. >> pleasure. thank you for having me. >> thank you. [applause] >> now please taken for one more message from bank of america. >> i thought it may never happen. that just wasn't going to be my life. >> we are falling in love with him and having his beautiful relationship with him that made me want to build a family with him and a life together. >> having this gave me the opportunity to help the boys adjust and help us adjust as well. because our lives are completely different. pick them up earlier in the day, for them to get comfortable in his private and for us to get comfortable as well.
it just makes me feel good about the company. makes me feel like they really believe in family, that they believe in me and my family. i think great people want to work for great companies that offer them great things. this is one of those things. whether you have two moms or to dance or a mop and dad or just a mom or just a debt, it doesn't change anything. we are still a family. >> please welcome back to the stage mike allen and kim hart. >> thank you very much. thank you axios, kim, great job with the chairman. and we were just talking backstage about your exchange about young people and the internet. what do you do in your family?
>> i watch them very carefully. my kids are of the age when we see on my phone, which is not great i guess, but it makes every time they see me on the phone they said i want to watch a video on your phone. and so i i pull up youtube andt them watch a video but it is, if you are not watching, that are the next big is that come up, for the next recommended videos that my kids know how to kind of scroll through and choose one,, even though they are really young. the two-year-old is better at, they know exactly how to do this. some of those cities are little bit disturbing, the one they say there's a video of pop patrol for example. a disturbing weird version that scares them. this is kind of a problem of one of things that were talking about was the algorithms that decide what do you come what article, what piece of content
to show you next. you have no control over that and the companies are trying to make sure that they are paying closer attention now that these issues have come up. it's hard and request diligence on both parts. >> kim hart, you wear a lot of hats. one of the things you do is you oversee the coach of tech and this assortment the super bowl week for your team, david mccabe is backstage did a great job with the alert on the at&t, point out right away why it matters in merger mania. take us behind the scenes. how do you prepare for a moment like that? you knew what roughly our the ruling was like to do come, so what do we do? >> so my team and i actually last friday put together the kind of a schedule for what we expected to happen. when you monday what's going to happen at the fcc of inverter coverage for that. we had a pretty detailed timeline that david and sara
fischer worked out where we knew that david would need to be at the courthouse by super early in order to wait for nine hours for the courtroom to open. this announcement was kind of unique. a lot of times the judge would just issued an opinion and you will be waiting and it will pop up in our alerts or our inbox or something. this time the judge called everyone back into the courtroom, major know what was on their phones, no one could leave the courtroom until he was done reading the decision. all the reporters in the room were the only ones who at that point knew what the ruling was, and we just have to wait. i know my team, we which is constantly looking at twitter tweeting and nervously waiting to see if like another publication like having to run out the door first to get an alert on the wire. all of a sudden the floodgates open at 5 p.m. and we found out the ruling. it was surprising that we all can if not actually that, i think the smart money was on the
at&t would win the case, but that would be some pretty stiff conditions attached to it was surprising that at&t got a completely clean when to go forward with this really big merger. >> we even had two of those animated graphics, you may have seen the graphic which is the slot machine came up with -- >> at&t. >> we had an alternative version of it, the graphic personnel lost to history. there were tds -- tea leaves. you kind of new the government was going to -- >> yeah, i think those over, i wasn't in the courtroom but i know for my staff was there every day listening to this six weeklong trial, i think the general consensus was that the doj was not able to prove its case that this would, the merger would result in higher prices and then would -- you had to
come looking with economists were saying, what the competitors were saying, it was clear by the line of questioning that the judge wasn't buying it. i think at&t made a pretty compelling case that it needed the scale that the merger afforded it to compete with the google's and facebook's and other huge platforms around the world. >> as you were listening to the chairman, what perked up your ears? what was either news or interesting or illuminating or surprising? >> i was surprised here that machine learning, that is sometimes been reserved or you can think about that being on the platform side of the company that ride on top of the internet and the providers rather what the providers are doing to integrate that technology into their networks. i think that creates come something we haven't all thought about. we about what google is doing, what facebook is doing an apple and microsoft and amazon with
machine learning and artificial intelligence but not as much about how is a being incorporated into the actual networks, what does it mean for wireless coverage, what does it mean with a combination of 5g and just that explosion of data, how does that drive the conversation and industry going forward? that something that hasn't been exported that much. >> last question, we always axios point out what's new and white matters, our brains are wired, brevity, and so for why it matters for this event, , you have been leading our coverage of the change in, even since axios launched 513 days ago, and that is the new attention to the societal impacts of these platforms in addition to the economic, financial, business regulatory aspects which you and i have covered, which you have covered for so long. what's it like to lead that covered and whites the nation of
axios as we have this big change in other platforms our pursuit? >> there's so much more information out there, partly driven by these platforms you were just talking about. i think what sometimes get lost in the conversation is not only the business impact of what happened on wall street for these covers of what happens behind the curtain at the companies, but also, and also the regulatory side that we talk to chairman pai about in the financial peace, but altogether what is it doing to our broader society? one of the things chairman pai talked about a lot was the digital divide and how we see in cities like washington, d.c. and silicon valley and new york that everyone is eagerly awaiting for 5g, yet there are people in rural america who barely have 2g networks. also when you look at silicon valley in fact, it is christo so much wealth and relatively few cities, when you think about
like the people who feel left behind by that revolution. what does that mean to our political discussion or economic discussion. >> you were telling me at&t basically comes another platform. >> i think so. i think one of the big takeaways from this ruling they came out on tuesday is that it's going to start a wave of consolidation and mergers and we are racing that with the announcement of comcast bid for 20% 20% of foxr disney. i think we been so focused on the huge internet platforms that we haven't paid absolute attention to the consolidation that it is trying to form to compete with those. in doing that we're probably going to see the rise of a few other religion art platforms in order to take them on. what does that mean? is that good for competition to create more competition for the big five tech companies, or does
it create new gatekeepers in a new way? >> we can't bring you a rainbow egg bowl every morning but was still a breakfast with you. sign up. you can join kim and her team and me for breakfast every morning. would like to thank the bank of america for making these conversations possible for the message about the companies responsible growth strategy. like to thank c-span for caring as life. thank you, c-span. thank our guests for stimulating conversation. thank all of you for coming out so early. the amazing axios even stepped our friends backstage the maid as beautiful breakfast. kim hart, managing editor, thanks for great conversation. see you on axios.com. great job. [applause] here's what's live on the c-span networks today.
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>> federal reserve chair jerome powell announced another interest rate hike bring in the federal funds rate to a range of 1.75, 22 pacific the chair also signaled that two more increases are likely in 2018. here's his washington, d.c. news conference. >> good afternoon and thanks very much for being here. i know that an number of you will want to talk about the details of our announcement today, and i'm happy to do that in a few minutes. but because monetary policy affects everyone, i want to start with a plain english summary of how the economy is doing, what my colleagues and i at the federal reserve are trying to do, , and why. the main take away is that the economy is doing very well. most people who want to fin