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tv   Senate Commerce Committee on Algae Blooms  CSPAN  August 30, 2018 5:14pm-6:30pm EDT

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and he had his own stenographer take on what he said. and then gave it to the associated press the next morning for the newspapers all over the country. [inaudible conversations] the subcommittee ocean's
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atmosphere and the coast guard will come to order. good afternoon with an important oversight hearing to discuss with the impact across the nation and coastal communities they are scientifically complex and damagingng and every state in the country experiences an event including my home state of alaska. i know that my colleagues will be happening in their states. hav have killed 15 people and sickened hundreds given that
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shellfish is a staple for tribal communities and homes in alaska this is a serious concern. it also can cause serious financial consequences on the seafood industry not just in alaska throughout the country and these are occurring more frequently. those that are creating difficult to respond to the t9 and shellfish poisoning is a serious illness by eating shellfish contaminated by toxic algae this is a concern particularly as it can cause serious human illness and even death at very small concentrationsss commercially harvested shellfish is regiment will naturally tested but for many shellfish that are harvested for personal use for example in southeast
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alaska u with the psp testing available for subsistence and recreational shellfish collection which is very important in my state. and the tribal network was formed to coordinate efforts to monitor the hab to have a deeper understanding of when and where is will occur. with eyes on the water each week the presence of 17 tribes can inform their communities about the current risk of harvestinger subsistence shellfish. a significant danger to commercials shellfish industry as well as well as the clam fishery with those 5 million annually in danger. it has been flooded by unexplained toxicity with
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those losses. another growing concern is the neurotoxin that is a major concern not just in alaska but the entire west coast particularly california and oregon and washington dungeness crab industry this was found in alaska and is a growing concern was a $3 million dollar per year dungeness crab industry. although going back as far as history goes the increasing frequency of events has a far-reaching impact. the long reported hab so we can better understand these events but that bipartisan algae bloom and those amendments of 2017 along with
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my ranking member senator baldwin and others with senator peters and senator nelson. with a significant risk to the fishing community and tourism community given the importance of those resources to the economies that we coordinate our hab with the atmospheric registration and we are glad to have the ranking member and editor nelson here. senator rubio as well. >> this summer mr. chairman algae blooms are turning those
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sparkling blue lakes and rivers into greenpeace to offending family recreation plans.an we are not even peak bloom season but already as ofof early augusts 160 days of beach closures in my home county alone. mostly due to the blue-green algae. and to show those algae blooms in green bay they are so bad that they have caused a dead zone to persist in the bays deep water for over 20 years.
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slowly removing oxygen from the waters and killing off fish and other aquatic life led from researchers in milwaukee to show this dead zone is only getting worse. wisconsin's largest lake is lake winnebago shown on the photo behind me and has been plagued where the bad algae that oneit of those witnesses canceled his plans to attend a fishing tournament because of the lg unfortunately he is not alone. there are over 1 million anglers in the state of wisconsin with a third biggest nonresident anglers in the country with those
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expenditures only after t florida. with those species with a top destination. by not only making the fish sick but to the anglers also. those spoil a great wisconsin summer they become dangerous to dangerous health during muslim events but with over 15000 aches and rivers many thousands of residents live on or near waterfront but the
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case in point this lake is clogged with lg throughout the warmer months. at a substantial cost to the community. to estimate the clean make can provide a $36 million boost to the local economy. the city of 16000 could be two students wanting to stay in the area year-round. this is on the rise in wisconsin and the united states increasing in frequency and duration climate changes making it worse to make more favorable conditions for algae blooms. recently an unprecedented
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bloom green to the shoreline of lake superior that has famous waters for cold and crisp and clear. these harmful blooms stretched 50 miles which is a popular destination for kayakers and hikers as the waters warm unprecedented events like this could become the new normal. scientists are trying to figure out exactly what is driving this new pattern withe the blooms looking at heavy rainfall which increases nutrient rich runoff climate change will only make things worse. the national harmful algae bloom program expires in just over one month september 30. i want to pledge my support for the research and control
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act which would reauthorize this crucial program and i want my colleagues to include amendments to ensure we are not only studying these harmful events that arming local communities with the tools to address their water quality challenges. the senate has taken action to pass this bill now we need to get this across the finish line we need to knowledge and act on the urgency of the national harmful algae crisis. with those increasing challenges of blooms and what we can do to best respond at the national level.
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>> inserting into the committee records that will document the extent of the harmful algae blooms that have suddenly enveloped to a green slime that then when it goes down some of the freshwater streams and rivers, meets with a phenomenon that occurs of bacteria in the gulf of mexico called red tide. which appears periodically in the golf. but when it moves close to shore as it has this year, and
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then is fueled by the extra nutrients in the water causing the algae growth from the freshwater rive river, that supercharges the bacteria into what we are now experiencing that most people have seen the dead fish, the dead mammals, which has been an additional plague on florida this year.n on >> without objection regarding the letter. >> florida is facing environmental and economic harmrd with toxic algae is coating both coasts. the lifeguards are having to declare that you can stay at the beach on the sand but cannot go in the water.
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it is killing all manner of sea life and it is making people sick. and obviously as a result hurting businesses. on the east coast a town called stewart which is the mouth of the st. lucie river, have talked to parents worried about letting their kids play outside a met with business owners worried about the lg and what that will mean for their bottom line. or the bait and tackle shops or anything associated with the beach? how aboutt anything associated with fishing? the stack of letters that i handed to you, let let me just read one line from one of the letters from christine miller the new owner of the bait and tackle shop in cape coral on
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the west coast. quote all of those hundreds and thousands of dead fish due to the red tide and the algae d bloom decided not to go along. they have taken all my business along with them. that is of the integral shop. our story sugar white beach sand right now should be lined with tourists but instead they are lined with dead and rotting sea life. casualties from the massive toxic red tide event that has now lasted ten months. over 2000 tons tons of dead fish and sea life have been removed from nearly 150 miles of florida's world renowned beaches.
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dead manatee. a dead whale shark. the pictures are horrifying enough. but in person with the native floridian of five generation it breaks my heart to see the beaches and rivers fowl like this it is not a partisan issue. that bill that you talked about that i introduced one year ago, we passed that we can never get the house off of the dead senate to pass that senator rubio and i are on the bill together. it is not a partisan issue. we have worked with colleagues regardless of party for the good of our states. and we want to secure funding for research on the algae blooms and f the projects restore things like the river
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of grass of the florida everglades that sends the water south as mother nature into it -- and intended instead of going to the west of the east and when it goes through the glass -- the grass it is cleansed so when it comes out into the gulf of mexico, it is clean water. that is why we are pushing so hard to get the house to pass. and that pass the senate unanimously.ly and to address the toxic algae.
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these are the pieces of a broader puzzle. and to clean up the environment. the states have to do their part. the states are invested with the responsibility of water quality. thank you to the chairman four can bebe any -- convening. >> i hope you also get up to alaska to fish. [laughter] there will be a great perspective.
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>> there are four outstanding witnesses thank you for giving us insights on the oversight hearing we think is important first we have mr. don anderson a senior scientist with the u.s. national office for harmful algae blooms.ho and director of special projects and lead engineers with the research labs we also have mr. ryan scrubs the executive director and president of the board of the alliance ander the national professional anglers association.
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and that longer written statement could be included the floor is yours. >> as you said a senior scientist but one who has been studying red ties and harmful algae blooms for over 40 years. also director of u.s.. national office. the key office. a truly national problem that requires a comprehensive national research mitigation strategy. when even like the red and green tide captured attention of the public and the media of congress it is a temptation to
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focus on the problem at hand but to do so has the need for balance sustained national support to enable other regions to respond to similar outbreaks that could occur elsewhere in the country. so prominent in everybody's mind right now. they are causing so much devastation and i am sympathetic that we only need to look at a few recent cases to see the diversity and complexity to have the outbreaks nationally. you have mentioned some and i will mention a few others, 2151 half species stretched from alaska to central california producing a brainoxin to cause damage and permanent memory loss in humans and wildlife eat contaminated seafood.
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that bloom closed the dungeness crab and shellfish fisheries with economic losses of $30 million in california andco 23 million washington alone. and then causing extensive selfish contamination three states then with the apparent spread of toxic species in alaska including the bering sea someone from my lab just returned from a cruise and we were finding the psp causing organisms up there looking inland 2014 the toxins in the toledo water supply left i find her thousand people drinking water for several days and more recently a similar event occurred in salem oregon affecting 150,000 people some resources nationwide are facing increasing threats from
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multiple species and poisoning syndromes occurring in different habitats at different times and at different scales. most days lack the resources to adequately respond so they are in need of a new approach and tool. so to a recognize this and other challenges, my colleagues and i have have worked with federal agencies and congress establish a national program and the funding for the competitive research program has led to a number of accomplishments that i describe in detail in my written testimony. including new sensors to support detection andnt monitoring early warning of these neurotoxins greater understanding. leading to the forecasting systems and promising new blooms control that mitigation strategy. i could go on but in interest of time i will close with a
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few summary comments and recommendations. first ofrs all a serious and growing problem in the u.s. affecting every state in the union and these problems will notd go away and they are increasing in severity and diversity. exist but theam level of funding for competitive and internal programs has fluctuated significantly. even with the recent increases over the last several years it remains well below what is needed for appropriate response. targeting scarce resources on each new outbreak is an efficient and limits the responses elsewhere. what we need is a coordinated national effort to focus research and personnel facilities and financial resources to the common goal of this comprehensive national strategy in the support should be consistent and sustained freshwater cannot be
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friends -- comprehensively addressed other than the great lakes current legislation authorizes the epa to address hab but does not provide a clear path for funding. and oaa requires additional funding for operations and support of management and congress needs to authorize these activities with specific language and funding for internal operations to support and likewise a clear mandate forer national systems are needed for the integrated ocean observing system. i can't speak on behalf of the science and management communities foisting appreciation for recent increase foras research funding, proposed increases in the fy 19 appropriations and specifically for passing the harmful algae bloom control
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and commitments but this needs to grow and we believe strength and competitive research programs working in coordination with the enhanced agency funding is a way to ensure the best expertise technology and strategy are brought to bear on this problem. that concludes my testimony. >> thank you mr. anderson. >> members of the subcommittee thank you for the opportunity to introduce myself the director of special projects from the mclean research lab. the manufacture of advanced ocean centers from cape cod massachusetts roughly 50% are shipped international earning the distinction of the small business exporter of the year in 2017. my job is to identify and commercialize promising technologies for wider use of
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environmental communities enabling broad deployment of innovating sensing systems. harmful blooms are a growing threat to the economy and well-being and ason such we have made significant investments in technologies with those early warning systems. increase demand adding new personnel and capabilities in addition to jobs created we are proud to employ other companies in various fields such as welding, electronics and biotechnology. we are one of the many small businesses acquiring technology from independent labs from those that are critical to the rise of the blue economy nationwide we have been fortunate to build on american ingenuity into the hands of new users. this testimonyhe will focus on
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the autonomous instruments that we manufacture for the algaeion of harmful species with toxins. the sensors would not have been possible without the support of government funding and philanthropic contributions. first as ann instrument the imaging flow that was developed in massachusetts. it is a smart underwater microscope to take pictures of microorganisms in the water with recognition similar to facial recognition technology to detect algae automatically. typically they are posted to the internet to facilitate collaboration t. because the ifcb counts individual cells that can detect very low concentrations this allows informed decisions
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to be made quickly based on the organisms in the water. in the summer of 2017 partner we partnered with unlocked local farm to have a pilot study with usefulness of this instrument to the growing aquaculture industry upon deployment of ifcb they developed a harmful algal bloomom was detected rapid counter measures allow them to save their stock of oysters and according to the owner quote mac if the ifcb is not devoid i most likely would not have known the bloom started and most of those seed oysters in the nursery would have died. " and to boost that output while maintaining the highest standards for seafood safety, we must consider how these tools can assist and enhance protection efforts. the secondma instrument is the environmental sample process
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developed at the monterey bay aquarium researchh institute and is also licensed by mclean instrument is a robotic system used to detect harmful algae to be deployed underwater to perform genetic test terminal whether certain species are present and at what concentration it also detects harmful algae blooms directly with great benefit to drinking water protection that will generate data from the field in the matter of hours after sampling typically faster than traditional methods they are now routinely deployed in the pacific northwest and north atlantic and most recently the great lakes. it acts as an early warning system for harmful algae blooms in a critical source for the predictive models of the operational forecast. we have continued innovation on the platform with direct support from the competitive
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research program and also has made significant investment to explore these new technologies we would like to thank our partners for their support and capacity for innovation. thank you mr. chairman and members of the subcommittee i hope my testimony has been helpfull developed in cooperation with our partners and research teams i welcome any questions that you or other members may have that concludes my testimon testimony. >> good afternoon and thank you indicative director of the cleveland water alliance and economy economic development cluster with a core need a group of industry academic and water utility of government partners to leverage herst assets to create a water innovation ecosystem that drives research through the economy we center on the challenges presented by harmful algae blooms with
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nutrient pollution presents a significant challenge frankly impacting human economic society and environmental health. in particular the source of drinking water for lake erienk while driving economic output is impacted by outbreaks and in recent years they have a stoxic output have led to temporary do not drink area warnings if let unchecked economic impact on the utilities will be in excess of $2.5 billion $5 billion over the next two decades. to begin to overcome this challenge the cleveland water alliance in ohio and michigan are taking a technical approach by making the great lakes smart starting with lake erie smart lake is instrumented with infrastructure to transform the data streams into useful tools to enable more effective
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management actions in the open waters of the great lakes through the watershed. launching a series of thisenges to support effort enter 2017 beginning a three-year three-year project with the great lakes observing system funded by the program to facilitate a transition of a early warning system from the prototype deployed rapidly in 2014 on the heels of the water crisis to a sustainable long-term program with funding and a supported system and maintenance this concludes land-based sensors and the environmental process with dangerous toxin produced by toxins with the market-based solutions. with more than two dozen drinking water utilities
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include of leveraging data and this ties into the warning system. and we submitted a 3 million-dollar proposal to the national science foundation submitted for the program the goal is to leverage the urgency to have nonpoint source nutrient loading with those management actions. and with that smart infrastructure that is connected to have better management with those distributed sensors and real-time telemetry with algorithms. as it opposed to nutrient loading with policy and
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management actions on land. number two to have the infrastructure to identify hotspots. and with the institutional users and that solution is in part with technologies and approaches. other sectors are extremely low with innovation a key role to a play in the challenge priority solutions with that microsystem sensors and advanced networking solutions as a market-driven solution along with appropriate use of data and data analytics leading to real-time feedback
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along with creating tools to have informed citizens and publish the makers. that will improve outcome to reduce cost and drive collaborative investment from the private sector and accelerate economic development to transform data. the data is water infrastructure. i'm happy to answer any questions. >> thank you ranking member and the members of the subcommittee for the opportunity to testify today. for over 50 years and with a freshwater fishing hall of
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fame and with a group of the national professional anglers association president and felt founder of the angler foundation. i have a passion for the outdoors. i believe that of the 49 million anglers in this country passion and concerns with the future of our sport runio rampant i'm here to show might want to share my concerns. yesterday as i was putting together this statement we had a heavy rainfall for a half inches in an hour. knowing that it would end up in green bay and lake michigan to have a detrimental effect of hab in the future.
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there is a chain of lakes in madison. in affected by algae blooms even at the time as a young child. recently my wife sarah and i fished on lake winnebago during a walleye tournament during the first week of july. it was not a pleasant experience we had to find areas to fish were we can actually fish and not have an issue with the lg running rampant. my wife turned to me and said we are not coming back here in 30 days for the championship that we did qualify for but even more scary 35 of the 90 teams that qualified to fish chose not to fish as well because ofof the blooms. algae blooms are naturally occurring green bay was named
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green bay because there was an algae bloom when the explorers found in the 1800s. but warmer temperatures, record rainfall have contributed to the worst algae in recent memory.. and likely contributing to the red tide event i am not here to testify as a scientist but common sensenosc dictate that te increased nutrients are tripping the algae blooms. they affect how we fish. these blooms have a loss to those and they cause health issues and with the saint lucy
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with the discharges from lake okeechobee and with the blue-green algae blooms have most likely contributed to the red tide event going on that is talked about. and in my opinion a percentage of the $125 billion that contribute to the national economy and in conclusion this is something we need to figure out a solution to. those that occurred naturally urban sprawl commercial funding and those that
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directed in the harmful research and control act are critical federal programs to advance the scientific understandingal of harmful hab the harmful algae bloom from the research and control amendment act of 2017 i hope the house i have a passion for angling my entire life. it's what i live to do our out door culture increases qualityou of life to make our country unique. we all need to do our part to protect aquatic resources of the future generations can utilize them. it's been an honor to testify on behalf of those as much as i do thank you for the opportunity to testify. >> thank you to all the
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witnesses for your testimony we will now turn to questions. let me get into one of the most important questions as you mentioned these are cycles that have been occurring for centuries but this is a question for all panelists. with that scientific understanding of hab what is your recommendation on how we address thosese gaps? and again i will open this up to anyone. dr. anderson? we can start with you. >> thank you mr. chairman. we do know quite a bit about
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many of these outbreaks around the country but if i choose just a few using the example of florida, one of the gaps we have there, there are two. what is f fueling that room and keeping it going so long? these are plans that require nutrientson just like on your shelf or windowsill. >> is there a theory? is that a gap right now we really don't understand? >> it is a gap in that region if you ask me in my region in the gulf of maine i would say the nutrients that fuel the blooms thereou and alaska are entirely natural florida is in a different situation it could be natural or could be coming from landor fertilizer. it takes some very dedicated and targeted programs to pull apart what nutrients are happening there so that is a
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gap that needs to be addressed. but why isn't that bloom ending the termination is a big app to understand how they start and grow but how they end remains anotheran mystery. going back up to alaska another big scientific gap is what isbap happening as waters warm in certain areas? i believe the arctic is the place for the action is happening extending their ranges. that is still a hypothesis but a huge gap to understand to be out ahead of those problems before they move into new areas. those are just two or three of the scientific gaps i would suggest. >> any other witnesses want to talk to that issue of the scientific or data gaps in
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terms of understanding hab? >> for the great lakes and lake erie in particular the research is in. we know what is causing mass it's not to say we didn't have greenn and lake erie 200 years ago but at this level we have never seen. we we know it has to do with nutrient loading. we know it has to doo with things such as phosphorus versus available reactive phosphorus. we have a lot of those answers but what we need to do from her research standpoint is two things. more understanding on the sensor side and to better understand how this comes off the farm fields with overuse of phosphorus, drain tiles.
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we need to do research on the innovation side of this with smart drain tiles that could have absorbent built into it to capture the phosphorus or nitrogen and that is the missing part along with societal human thinking we have to realize this is the all of us problem we all eat we all need those plants to be productive but we need to do it smarter and do research around there. thank you. . . . . >> you are also somebody who tns a nonprofit trying to bring up the next generation of
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enthusiastic anglers. and so as you work to get that next generation of anglers out on the water, how are you seeing these harmful algae blooms impacting your work in that respect? >> the issue comes up when we're at an event that we support. so our members go out, share their passion with young anglers and with their families. and when we're at an event that would happen to have had a bloom, it's spoken about frequently. one of the things that we make t re we do is try to educate those that attend our future angler events on aquatic invasive species and how they affect the ecosystem. and we'll discuss algae as well.
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we're all in this together. this is something that needs to be addressed, and, you know, ed's critical that that we address these harmful algae blooms, because they will affect utilization of the resource. and we have this next generation of anglers coming up that we want to have pleasant experiences on the water. and it's not going to happen if algae blooms are occurring to the degree that they are been in the past due to nutrient loading, as was mentioned earlier, i'm sure. >> thank you. mr. stubbs, in the great lakes, as you know, lake erie has become, in some ways, a poster example, a poster child of harmfullal gal blooms -- harmful algal blooms. os're seeing more and more of them in lake michigan and lake superior. i'm concerned for the 35 million
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people who depend on the great lakes for their source of drinking water and for the millions of jobs across the region and the myriad ecosystems. so i'm curious about how you and your organization, the cleveland water alliance, have been inrking -- you have been working to help lake erie communities. can similar solutions be adapted to communities on the other great lakes? when does that fit and when is it not a fit? >> i think it's always a for fi, and it's our job to figure out -- as you put it, lake erie is,or unfortunately, the poster child for it in the great lake regions. but as much bad things, we have 200 companies in northeast ohio, we can do the same thing by really driving good, innovative solutions.
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right now we're taking part in a eretty unique program through the great lakes protection fund that's funding us to work with all of the community foundations surrounding the great lakes. called great lakes one water. and we made a recommendation to that group about embracing technology and innovation as part of the solution. we've gotten it through and convinced for our lake erie working group, and it's now going to the other four great lake areas. so with that, absolutely, we are moving that forward. now, it always comes down to capacity and resources and getting everybody on the same page. but organizations such as research organizations like i-angler, organizations like the great lakes commission, the great lakes protection fund, we've been pushing them to work more collaboratively. that's the key thing. now, i know in milwaukee we have an excellent relationship with the water council. we work with them, we work with the pier in chicago called current, another blue economy cluster. and that's how we're going to do
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it, is by rolling up our sleeves and sharing our innovations and our collaboration. not putting the e quos first but putting, you know, lake erie's all connected. it's 20% of the world's fresh surface water. >> thanks. >> senator peters. >> thank you, mr. chairman, and ranking member, for holding meeting. senator baldwin, you and i share concerns over the great lakes, and we have seen thesal gal blooms, as you mentioned, even in lake superior. i know there was a large one from northern michigan all the way to the apostle islands in washington, in wisconsin. lake erie is a shallower and warmer body of water, lake superior is cold and extremely deep. this doesn't seem like the same type of mechanics are involved here, and yet something very significant is happening, and so i appreciate the testimony as we try to deal with this. dr. anderson, you mentioned your
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support for the bill, which i'm have co-sponsored with senator nelson, that's passed the senate and is now before the house. we've been getting some resistance from house members who have suggested that the bill may not be needed. in fact, that there are already too many federal agencies that areti involved in this researching. how would you respond to folks who are making those critiques? >> well, thank you for this opportunity the, because i totally disagree with that viewpoint. as one who has been down here many times talking to various delegations, talking to government agencies and program managers, that authorization is very, very important. it -- there's scarce money within noaa or these other agencies, and there's a lot of competing hands out trying to use it. and having an authorization for this program sends a message to the people ino control of some f those discretionary type
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internal funds and even competitive funds. and i think that having, having the authorization lapse would be just a real terrible thing. we've built up a program that has that backing. you can see it's getting worse. i mean, the stories we're ouaring basically involve every state in the country. i think we deserve our own legislation and not to have it die. >> you also mentioned in your testimony the various regions -- florida and alaska and particularly the climate change in alaska that may be contributing to these outbreaks. would the great lakes also be in that category? >> well, especially, i think, the greats. lakes and freshwater systems. when we talk about climate change, for a lot of us it's still not exactly clear what's going to happen. apmentioned range expansions. i think for sure species are
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going to start moving north. but it's really quite clear that the species that cause problems in the freshwater systems, these bacteria, are are real winners when it comes to a warming client. theyes grow better than all of their competing species in the water whether it's other bacteria or other algae. they, there's a paper out about they like it hot. it's true, they grow well. so given that's really the problem that the great lakes are going to face, the bacteria as they warm, then i think, yes, even in the cold and deep lake superior. >> right. that's probably why we're starting to see that already. >> yes, i think so. >> early warning. >> and that's, i think, why things are happening up in alaska as well. as the waters warm there, a lot of species are are moving up. and i just think of all the species that could move into the region. i don't think any of them are as big a threat to the indigenous communities and the ecosystems
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up there as the habs. >> the other question i have related to that for mr. anderson is that you mentioned that the spreading of these habs can also be as a result of transportation systems. as you know, we have an issue with ballast water, and there's some legislation before us here. senator baldwin and i have raised, as well as others, have raised many issues related to ballast water in the great lakes. could you speak to the danger of not effectively controlling ballast water and what that could mean for spreading these toxic organisms even further? >> certainly. there's no question that ballast is, ballast water discharges are a potential way to move these species into new, new areas. we have scientific papers out there that document this. there's some strategies that these species have that make them especially capable of
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thnefiting from that type of a situation. so a lot of the ones i study, the ones that occur up in alaska have a very resistant stage called a cyst that starts to the sediment. most of the year it's down in the bottom of the ocean, and then it germinates and starts to bloom. those cysts can readily be transported all over the world. they're resistant. they're dormant. they don't require light, a lot of things and, therefore, a ballast water tank is a great place for them to hitch a ride around the world. and then when they're discharged and the conditions are right, away they go. so we've always in our field been very supportive of ballast water regulations and technologies to try to make sure that what's discharged is safe, including killing all the habs species there. >> and if i may, you talked about spreading it around the world, but just within the great
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lakes basin and the great lakes water shed and the number of lakes that we have, just transforming it from lake erie to lake superior can be agr significant harm potentially. >> i totally agree. i'm sorry, i should have said that as well, but yes. it's certainly within the great lakes system,ll it's the same as going are from one part, one port in the ocean to another. it's the same exact concern. >> great,g thank you. >> well, as senator peters knows, we're working hard on that in the coast guard bill, so i think we're getting close to a compromise on a good bill that reflects that issue. senator baldwin. >> i want to just ask a follow-up. this is already dealt with in your testimony to a surgeon degree, but just the -- to a certain degree, but just the tools for predicting habs. so i represent a state on two great lakes, lake michigan and lake superior. mighty mississippi on our west
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coast, st. croix river and then all these, you know, the biggest lake inland is lake winnebago, but i grew up learning how to swim, mr. neu, in lake mendota. so all in between. and it seems to me habs can be very dynamic with some appearing practically overnight and with them shifting rapidly in in location because of wind. this unpredictability might make it difficult for public officials to issue timely warnings to beach-goers or businesses. so what are some of the challenges with predicting, monitoring and assessing habs in the great lakes but also in much smaller inland waters? is and what will it take -- and what will it take to improve our hab forecasting capabilities? and i present that to anyone on the panel who wants to jump in. starting with -- >> i'm happy to take that one first since we're working on a noaa-funded program right now. what we're finding as we're
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building the infrastructure for our harmful algal bloom warning system is input. again, it comes down to sensors. we need more realtime -- and when i say "realtime," i mean affordable realtime sensors on the water shed and on the open waters. it's limited in what we can afford to put out there right now. as an example, mclean's environmental sample processer. we've got one that we've ordered through the great lakes noaa research glam in ann arbor that is going to take a year just to finish assembling and is over half a million dollars. we're out there exploring technologies that will take that down to potentially $20,000. as we can drive down that kind of innovation, we will be able to dethe ploy more of these and get those inputs. in the same breath, look, we're leveraging private sector. so smart and connected cities, that sort of intelligence, we're bringing that into the watershed. so ibm's lake george project is
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an excellent example where we've brought in their machine learning to help build up those predictive an lit arics models -- analytics models. for us, we're in the the labs of water utilities. these water utilities on lake erie are just amazing on how azey've had to basically band-aid solutions together. we've got to get them the realtime monitor thing solutions. no more of a research, taking a grab sample and wondering. we have to get through things like data sharing amongst utilities and encourage that. i think it starts there. we know how to do this, it's just putting all the pieces together. >> okay. >> well, thank you. i want to thank all the witnesses for this hearing. unfortunately, we have a vote coming up, so we're going to have to cut it a little bit short. but thein hearing record will remain open for two weeks. during this time senators may submit additional questions from esr witnesses for the record. upon receipt, the witnesses are respectfully requested to submit their written answers to the
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committee as soon as possible. i want to thank everybody again for appearing today. this is an important issue. hopefully, you're seeing there's a lot of bipartisan interest not just on gaining knowledge, but on the actions we need to take as a senate. so -- oh, senator markey. you made it at the buzzer. [laughter] so i'm, i was this close to tapping, but given that i know you care a lot about this issue, the floor is yours for -- >> thank you. >> -- some additional questions. >> i appreciate it very much. thank you, mr. chairman. ranking member baldwin, thank you so much. and, first, i want to give a warm bay state welcome to don anderson, senior scientist at woods hole. and mr. engstrom, director of special projects at mcclain research labs in east falmouth. thank you for being here, thank
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you for sharing your expertise. and when i say "warm bay state," that's what i mean. it is warm. the water off of the coast of massachusetts, with the exception of up in the arctic, is at the top of the list of the fastest warming body of water in the world. so we've got a big issue that we have to deal with, and today's hearing, harmful algal blooms -- which are increasing in frequency because of warming waters. just last year tufts university led a study forecasting that we will see more harmful algal blooms due to climate change, higher water temperatures, changes in rainfall, flooding and increased fertilizer runoff. that's a bad recipe for harmful algal blooms. dr. anderson, do you agree that climate change increases the alcurrence and severity of
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harmful algal blooms? >> thank you, senator markey. i agree it increases some of them, but, in fact, it can cut both ways. and it may even cut both ways in our region, for example, where if it gets too warm, some species may not actually be able to thrive there, and they will move north. and it's happening with fish, many other organize nil, as well -- organisms as well. so, yes, it can get worse in some cases, but i do at least want to say that usually there's tother, another side as well. but i think that the case in freshwater is crystal clear that warmth is contributing to the problem in the marine realm i think we are seeing it as well, but much more as a movement of species. like we're now getting warm water species in the gulf of maine that we didn't used to see. >> and you'ree saying in the sae way that lobster are looking for
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more colder water and cod are looking for colder water -- >> yeah, exactly. >> they're not leaving us, they're heading north. >> one of the species that causes a lot of problems in florida just bloomed up in portland and along the coast of maine last year. >> incredible. incredible. so do you think we need higher levels of funding for research on this question? >> absolutely. and i think i can answer this question as well as what senator keldwin asked about what we can do about forecasting and so forth. the message really is that there are increasing, there's more blooms, there's more species, more toxic sin -- syndrome, so how to you deal with that. and one of the answers was sensors and better ability to detect and forecast. dnd if we put that together -- sensors plus better models, computer models -- we'll get us a long way towards what you wanted. think of the weather forecast that you look at. melook at it in the morning, and it gives me a computer model.
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that's a combination of a computer model and the, you know, the sensors that are out there measuring what's going on in the atmosphere. we need that in the ocean, and it's expensive. you've -- but once you get that infrastructure, like the weather service has, you can start doing the kind of predictions and early warning that can really help us manage this worsening problem. >> thank you. >> so there's no question -- >> appreciate it, thank you. mr. engstrom, you say in your testimony that for detecting harmful algal blooms, quote, the costs of maintaining comprehensive network of sensors may be significant. how can we bring down the cost of sensors? >> well, that's a very complex and yet simple question at the same time. and that's, i believe, is scale, you know? right now our industry is such a niche. but as we know, the problem is growing. my company, we do instruments in
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small quantities at high dollar. and if we can find demands beyond our niche into aquaculture, into other monitoring efforts, i think that brings the cost down. and also significant are research initiatives, competitive research programs like noaa for technology development. not only just ecological forecasting, but developing tools like mr. stubbs has mentioned, lower cost tools. there may be a myriad of technologies that are out there that companies such as ours would love to -- >> in your opinion, what should our agencies be doing to best combine satellite data with on the-the-ground senator -- sensors in order to get the most accurate mr. stubbs can answer -
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>> dr. anderson, do you -- >> well, the combination of those two sensor types is hugely powerful. but it's also going to be good in certain areas. it had been good on a lot of lakes, large lakes where you have these surface blooms that are easy to see from space. it's good in florida where the bloom is quite visible. satellites don't help us too much in i the gulf of maine because our species are so fox thetic -- toxic, they cause troubles even when the water is blue. but if you can put those two together, you have something, again, i keep going back to an analogy of the weather service. your radar and think about how much that tells you about storms and so forth. that could be your remote sensing, and that's telling us the big picture. and then you have senators that are -- sensors that are also measuring at a local level. the two together is quite powerful. >> thank you. and, mr. chairman, very
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importantly, dr. anderson -- and i think it does reflect the more temp rate climate that we now have inrm massachusetts, therefore, giving dr. anderson more days in the year to accomplish his goal -- is the reigning massachusetts senior amateur golfse champion. [laughter] that would be made possible by cape cod being, the warming weather is definitely making it possible -- >> wow. i didn't see that on your -- >> yeah. you can't, it doesn't get any bigger than that, okay? [laughter] we thank you both,h, and we thak all of you for all of your great work. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you, senator markey. and, again, i want to thank the witnesses for a really important issue as, hopefully, as i mentioned earlier, you're seeing a bipartisan consensus on the need to fully understand this much better but also to take action, and that's what this hearing is focused on. so, again, i would ask that any
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additional questions that come to the witnesses from other senators who could not be at the hearing today or additional questions from those who were, that the witnesses submit their written answers to the committee as soon as they can. and, again, thank you for a very informative hearing. this hearing is now a adjourned. [inaudible conversations] i [inaudible conversations]
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>> tonight president trump speaks at a campaign rally in indiana to support republican senate candidate mike brawn who's running against senator joe donnelly. live coverage begins at 8 p.m. eastern on c-span. both the house and senate return for legislative work on tuesday the. in the house, members will be returning from their summer district work period. they're expected to consider bills on student loan debt counseling, exporting liquid natural gas, and they'll swear in a new member. republican troy balderson won the special election for ohio's 12th district. in the senate, lawmakers will continue work on nominations with votes on a securities and
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exchange commission member and several u.s. district court judges. watch the house live on c-span and the senate live on c-span2. in the weekend c-span's cities tour takes you to flagstaff, arizona. with the help of our sudden link cable partners, we'll explore the literary life and history of nag staph -- flagstaff, located 80 miles south of the grand canyon. author don lego discusses his book "grand canyon: a history of a national wonder and national park." >> quarter of the way into the grand canyon, it starts about 70 miles east of here, and from here it has another 200 miles to the west. right here is when the can canyon starts to widen and deepen and turn into the classic views that you see in most photographs, calendars or famous images. >> on sunday at 2 p.m. eastern on american history tv, a visit
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to the lowell observatory to hear about as to mom call discoveries including the discovery of pluto and moon mapping for the apollo program. then a tour of the what pot key national monoqume. -- >> some people might think of this site as abandoned and completely empty, but it is still a very important and living site for a lot of the descendants of the ancestral people who live in the area. hopi people do ceremonies and pay homage to their ancestors because they believe their ancestors are still here. this is still a very important site for many people in the southwest. >> watch c-span's cities tour of flagstaff, arizona, saturday at 7 p.m. eastern on c-span2's booktv and sunday at 2 p.m. on american history tv on c-span3 working with your cable affiliates as we explore
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america. >> join us for booktv's live coverage of the 18th annual library of congress national book festival saturday, starting at 10 a.m. eastern. our coverage includes viewer call-ins from our set at the washington convention center with pulitzer prize-winning biographer jon meacham and his book, "the soul of america: the battle for our better angels." pulitzer prize-winning historian doris kerns goodwin with "leadership in turbulent times." ron chernow with his book, "grant." and fox news host brian kilmeade with his book, "andrew jackson and the miracle of new orleans: the battle that shaped america's destiny." watch the 18th annual library of congress national book festival live on c-span2's booktv saturday at 10 a.m. eastern. >> sunday night on q&a,
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historian charles calhoun talks about his biography on the 23rd president of the united states, benjamin harrison. >> when he was nominated, he was in indianapolis, and and at his house people thronged, and he gave four speeches that day. and his campaign people said, you know, this is the thing to do, let people come to you. so over the next four or five months until the election, that's what happened. harrison stayed home, he slept in his own bed. he would meet these delegations, these visiting delegations from around the state, from around the country. often they would be special interest groups, the coal miners or the wheat farmers, cotton farmers, whatever. they would come and harrison would give them a short speech. mostly attuned to their own interests, but something that would be, would resonate with people generally. he had his own stenographer take down what he said, and then he would go over what he had said, make sure it was what he wanted
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people to read. they'd give it to the associated press the next morning, it's in the newspapers all over the country. >> historian charles calhoun sunday night at 8 eastern on c-span's "q&a." >> next, a discussion about the political climate in afghanistan. we'll hear from a former afghan ambassador to france and canada and a university president on potential peace talks between afghanistan's government and the taliban. u.s. military operations and afghanistan/pakistan relations. the panel discussion, hosted by the hudson institute, is about an hour and a half. >> good afternoon. i'm husain haqqani, leader here at the hudson institute. welcome to hudson. for the last four decades, afghanistan and its citizens have lived through civil

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