tv Wilson Center Discussion on U.S.- Canada Space Cooperation Part 3 CSPAN September 20, 2018 10:34pm-11:28pm EDT
hot >> our coverage from the wilson center continues in just a moment. first, look at what we have live tomorrow. senator mitch mcconnell, ted cruz and likely will address conservatives at the 2018 values voter summit in washington d.c. that starts at 8:50 a.m. eastern. in the afternoon former vice president joe biden will talk about the effort to find a cure for cancer.
>> okay, thank you so much. i'm really excited to see this idea is kind of got filled all of a sudden by a bunch of military people, so it's very cool. i had the honor to introduce our two guests today, our two panelists. i'm going to stay with brigadier general kevin will come a brigadier general for the canadian defense ministry. he brings up in a really diverse military background that starts in 1986 and over the years to fund the venture watercraft including the pilot, 23, apache, lotus opposition such as training and concept development for had orders. he's done a ton of work engaging with allies from an exchange with the u.s. army that landed him at fort hood texas and special operations aviation in afghanistan in somehow and he's
landed himself doing space operations. so, let's welcome general kevin whale. we also have with us mr. sean barnes, assistant vice commander of air force space command and is held that position since april, right? major general thompson moved to the pentagon [inaudible] started for you. his experience with air force base operation starting back a lot further than that. he retired from the air force in 2013 is a colonel built to resume their hunt space in icbm centric operations and is also held positions such as the air force's deputy director of planning and deputy or legislative liaison office and
most recently before he took his current role, assistant chief of staff for space operations. he thrilled to welcome you both and as i understand it, you guys have presentations before we get into some q&a and hopefully a lot of audience q&a. general, would you like to start with your presentation? >> over the podium. >> cool. >> i'm happy to be here today describe to you what i can honestly say is an exceptional collaborative relationship we have at the u.s. department of defense on the canadian side. it's been talked about already on the civil and commercial side, i will add the defense plans en masse. the title of my first light is really our new defense policy released about a year and half ago, we really need to accelerate. i'm impressed with what's been built but we really need to accelerate not just in canada,
but across the allies. we need to collaborate because it is one of the quickest ways to establish resiliency in the mission assurance we need to sustain our capabilities and provide deterrence effect to anyone interested in compromising our capabilities and for the first time enough for in canada we defend our capabilities because they have become critical infrastructure. i thought what i would do first is give some highlights and i could give you pages of this, these are highly on the level of collaboration we have between canada and the u.s. decided space. the long history back to the early 60s and even before that including norad and polite missions. we have 30 cooperative framework agreements on military projects for different levels of cooperation and sat from,
science and technology, isr and all kinds of capabilities and that is significant between our two nations alone. we get together formally although we are in constant contact and informally at this quarterly would get together by emily in a formal dialogue at the strategic level and how are cooperating in how we want to move forward. we have routine interaction the combined space operation of which i've been the chair of the operations working group for the last year and i can tell you we are absolutely seized with accelerated our level of cooperation so something happened in space today we are prepared to collaborate as allies to deal with that. our new defense policy strong security page directs me specifically in the chief of defense has passed me in the hallway on occasion and directed me to do this specifically for
closer with allies including of course the united states to ensure a coordinated approach to access our space capabilities. there were over three canadian air force members over 16 u.s. units conduct a space missions with its missile defense work and the combined space ops center under norad or other arrangements including the first time ever, by the way the joint space operation just transition to a combined space operations center. i was there for that transition and the first time the non-us officer as a deputy commander of that organization will rotate back now with blakely at least the united kingdom and australia working in the combined operations center. currently all talk about our current planned isr and other capabilities would either provide or collaborate on.
fetish is the highlight. i could go on for a long time that gives an indication of the level of collaboration we have on the defense side base. you've heard about how far back this goes and i cannot norad voice to this. i want to use it despite an indication of i'm the one of the poster child for what is wrong with how fast were moving. i have a 30 year career mostly fine helicopters. it benefited from space by entire career whether it's communication, navigation, isr products delivered to me. i never gave it a second thought until i was handed this role your half ago and let me tell you i'm a little bit embarrassed to what i didn't know. i'm trying to help my organization anyone who'll listen to wear raccoon wearing a together and how fast we need to go. before i was born there is only half a dozen man-made objects in space. now we are describing certainly
the congested contested and competitive nature space which i don't mean to belabor with this audience. now over 1600 operational satellites before i retire somewhere on the order of 10,000. the contested pieces not only things like direct capabilities, satellite capabilities. i'm concerned about cyber. i'm about cyber. i'm concerned about crime networks. everything in space as a computer on a one or zero. that's a big deal if it's compromised in any way. the competitive pc heard all about the benefit, risk and opportunities from industry. we need to do better at integrating that into military capabilities. the fourth is the convergence of all of those. anyone of us can drive us into urgency for the level of collaboration we have. the convergence of all of those makes it over the chart is compelling argument.
so what that means to us and military first of all is opportunity. cost of entry is dropping to capabilities into space. his game changing innovation, tech demos that can take video from space. technology transfer talk about, what it means to all of our nations, civilian applications for in space. economic development for countries, and plan for exploration and from a military point of view that being a little bit tongue-in-cheek here but we can see almost everything whether it's humanitarian peace supporter conflict operations be able to see what's going on is your first step in situational awareness. every time i receive a briefing from an industry partner on an amazing innovation they're working on, and excited about what it can do for my forces. 30 seconds later i get terrified about who else may have the capability and that's when you get in the risk. opportunity for us, adversarial
access to space certainly growing. innovation is outpacing policy procurement processes. collision and counter space activity a concern. the freedom of maneuver we've had until now that i've taken for granted we can't take for granted anymore. we have to do things to ensure it. we have to enforce norms around for a long time that we probably haven't had to enforce until now which is pushing the bounds of legal assessments in how we operate and if we can see everything, they can see everything. imagine trying to move a naval vessel anywhere in the planet and someone on the internet been able to see it in real time. that is a significant deal for us military operations. the authority heard what space means to canada and from a defense point of view to a second largest on the planet, population of roughly california to say we can benefit from isr
navigation from satellite is certainly an understatement. all of that sense of urgency and context was fed into our new policy statement, which came out with the framework of we know we need to be strong in canada. we need to be secure in north america with our north american partners and we want to be engaged in the world where it makes sense. the red line across the bar i can't think of any of those missions that don't involve space capabilities. not one that is recognized in our policy. the approach we are taking on a strategic level as we know we want to be better anticipate, adapt and act in a red circle there is a specific space capabilities going into that construct. this is an overview of the whole policy sort of outline. i'm not going to go through it.
you see and read the specific space capabilities highlighted in the policy. look at the increase in funding over 20 years. this pushes us towards a level of ambition we haven't seen since the korean conflict. it will take us 20 years to rule this out. i highlighted as well because some of my space projects and focused on operational capabilities. some are not going to be delivered in the time i want them for operations that we had to make tough choices on how we face this as a force. we nature to jacob for some fun and how we roll this out over time. if i use an example of every one of the projects whether it's people or me, air force, all of those projects have to be phased in time when the money is available within the capacity of our government to sustain. in some cases the pipeline of the government approval process can disrupt the entire pipeline
for just defense. and there's a lot to be the mayor. that's one of the context we have to deal with but their space capabilities. specifically what the policy has directed as he will defend and protect those capabilities and that means a lot more than most of you might think and i'll talk about that briefly. investing in capabilities that will highlight specific direction. you will work with partners on space issues. you provide leadership or you can in influencing international norms and responsible behavior in states for everyone's benefit in the lot of talk of world-class r&d in a lot of integration collaboration within the united states along that route. the defend and protect framework we are using their shameless stealing a product of this taxonomy of what insurance
means. defensive ops on the left there is what most people think about immediately like defending against a satellite system, but also things like constitution. we're getting to the point of some system is compromised you could have one if it's cheap enough on the shelf and just launch it again and that is a deterrent effect. on the resilient side, disaggregation proliferation distribution as was mentioned, don't poke a one battle circle at that. cheaper one so it's not as easy to take up the capability. working with allies in a non-bursary knows we are so tightly collaborative and they were taken out what system we are just going to offset it until that allied system is replaced. again, that's a pretty effective deterrent effect. in flakes if we are going to be soon at a point where we can go
up in the system is damaged we can go up and repair it, why would we not do that? we are getting into this capability as a force an analysis of thanks for the direction on defend and protect. this is everything it means. we'll figure out where we are at and make recommendations where we should be going including our level of cooperation with allies like the united states. if you look in the center here, this is sort of my cheat sheet of cooperation both internally and externally. the center you have the air force which two years ago i was handed the space domain. our capabilities are built under a joint construct in their hand to the air force and we are certainly all in taking a leadership role in this domain. no functional leadership on air and space. if i look -- if i drop it up my canadian space operations
center. you you see the os so, canadians in u.s. unit for my space operations center is integrated in my command center, the equivalent of our cocom command. in the bottom left we have joint space supports team so we deploy subject matter expert to advise our forces and coalition forces to give them links back into all of the space capabilities we are integrated in. the bottom center a lot of interaction with industry partners and certainly other government departments like certainly the canadian space agency, economic development and others. in a year in a house when you get into the space business, low-level of interdependent is just off the charts. the right and the purple or the other internal organizations that also contributed to the
canadian armed forces space commission. canadian army and navy individuals posted on my staff critical to this capability. information management group rather satellite operations centers once we procure capabilities. intelligence command deals with imagery, isr in those kinds of things. not just the air force piece that is involved. i call it the canadian defense space enterprise. it really is an enterprise or air force now the day. up on the right is certainly the u.s. come u.k., new zealand, australia and france, germany and japan starting to work their way into the organization. under the u.s. we have great ties, unbelievable relationships with strap, commensurate for space and link 24/7. the commander of my air force
just offered to become a continuity of ops back a period and others' internal backups, but that's a level of integration we want to get through and in that senators about eight or 10 canadians working on any given day in a room like this quarter of the people in that room might we canadians. quickly and capabilities, we are ready have collaborative capabilities on the advanced systems. janet is a partner in both of those. currently we are getting our tactical case-by-case arrangements. those are long-standing and progressing. we are in the final stages to try and negotiate sales on the navy system so we can get out of
that ad hoc approach to the tactical communications capability and get an arrangement with the uso. that would make canada the first and only ally on that system and that the benefit to both countries than you think about north american defense operations, and north com, norad, anything else would be nice if on the same system and it's going to drive the type of radius to get, how we communicate in everything else. we are really hopeful to wrap that up. you heard about our communications. helicopters and higher ticket couple times in the early and mid-90s. i'm happy to hear there's more coming. it's a really lonely feeling when you leave your point of departure and you're not going to talk to anybody else until the end of the day. we operate all the time. we adjust and find ways to do it, but that's unacceptable anywhere.
we want the same communications we have across canada and the rest of north america. certainly the u.s., norway and denmark are interested in collaborating on not. one of the ways we are trying to open ourselves up to new space when we just did our dialogue with industry for kind of options on how they would be this, we didn't go out and say when a big satellite that harbors over the north to does this thing. we said i need this kind of communications with these kinds of collaborative allies involved. you tell me how you would do it. public-private partnership commitment of service, little satellite, we are not telling you how. we will tell you what we need. please innovate and give us the best to move forward and we are chewing through those responses right now to see what we might choose to move forward on not.
sapphire satellite were the only non-us satellite integrated into the space surveillance network. thrilled with what that is providing the misses us doing our part to integrate into that situational awareness and space. isr planned collaborations mission is a canadian poll of government mission of which defense is only one stakeholder. but we've got ground stations we will add to the complete network of ground stations used for the whole of government system to get the military data we need. we've already got a follow-on program before this one even launches we've got to start the follow-on program to design what is going to launch after that capability. you've heard about the mirrors
immigration. repeaters we are putting on the u.s. gps system and we just released information with industry for the follow-on to sapphire which we are calling surveillance of space too. we not only want to sustain what were doing, what to expand what we're doing in the den we went out and said we of service for 10 years. one satellite the last 10 years. a satellite every two years. cheaper satellite can be ground-based, industry, you tell us the best way to do this for the contribution we want to make. that's a quick summary. again, i have very clear and direct orders on accelerate, collaborate and defend to implement the space elements of her strong secure exchange policy. thank you. [applause] >> excellent. that gives us a lot to chew on later on. for now with move over to sean.
>> thank you. good morning. zero but i've decided to take a different approach than kevin because if i decided to say here's what were collaborating, my sides would look a whole lot like his slides. it's almost as if we coordinated this. so you know, one of the things that strikes me as we've talked a lot about collaboration on projects and in forums. let me take a moment to explain to you and illustrate for my career with the u.s. and canada has collaborated. every single frame an ipad and united states air force except my first assignment where he was an icbm launch officer i worked with canadians who worked on specific canadian u.s. issues. the first space assignment was assigned to u.s. space command working hand in glove with canadian officers and canadian ncos to protect the nation
from aerospace and missile warnings and missile threats. we worked hand in glove on that. my next assignment was at the air force where i was in charge of setting up exercises around the world to integrate space and every one of those exercises there was canadians involved, whether in thailand, alaska, japan, those were all multinational and working with canadian partners is absolutely critical. my next assignment was where we had canadian officers as well in my same after that was my first at the pentagon where among other things i work to ensure we could bring canadians, australians and enjoy space based missile warning center at buckley and reset the program. we set up the arrangements and we have since that point would
continually had a canadian presence at buckley air force base. i went from there, where did i go after that? let's see, so that was my first assignment at the pentagon and then he went to thule air base. they also got to fly a helicopter with your date, which is a very lonely place and when it's not dark it's very late. among the three people on my crew was a canadian officer into canadian ncos. it worked for mayor to national war college were again i worked with canadians at school there and from there to the joint staff were again i worked a variety of collaborative issues having to do with space exercises in combined space programs. the joint staff up to colorado springs. may 1st 06 assignment sitting
>> and i have worked with the canadians and it's also about the people that you work with. i have a couple of prepared remarks. i do work for someone and they said read this left mac. that's not quite true. [laughter] but they said you can read that. general george patton once said don't tell people how to do it just tell them what to do and let them surprise you
with the results. so our commercial partners are surprising us and thank you very much. with those innovative ideas. it's the execution and the result it is critical for that environment where they continue to flourish. so what is the role of government? >> that is a big role to set the environment to flourish. in order to allow the spirit of innovation to continue to preserve and protect the national security business interest. we do this by deterring adversaries protecting and defending the spray - - the space assets. he uses the term defend and protect and i say protect and defend.
[laughter] so this relies on certainty. knowing that investments are secure as possible in a space that is already challenging i don't need to go into what could go wrong with a satellite in space that is problem for engineers to solve. but what exacerbates this the coalition of the like-minded governments that is responsible so the deterrence to freely exploit space in any theory relies on the perception it is an effective to be met with an overwhelming response imposing unacceptable cost. but what is foundational with
the only by the national command in the world that practical value increases the resilience for adversary action. forces demonstrate the capability - - the credibility to assure deterrence such as the upcoming what we had spoken about earlier. that we are practicing the secretary and chief of staff recently directed staff to share a classified information with the closest allies to review how we have space programs from the very beginning these actions will further strengthen the political aspects. let's be clear this will not
solve our problems we must ensure we have the ability to defend ourselves. space is now a war fighting domain. it is adjusting our focus to space operations to the war fighting domain with architecture with the capabilities to defend that architecture. with that strategy we will continue for peace through strength or an attack to be met with a deliberate response in a manner that is an important avowal long - - a domain of our choosing. protect and defend our assets. now i have heard concerns as we move forward with consideratio
and then have that opportunity to design programs and then it is great to have that partner or this partner. and where we start from the beginning believing and then if there is some specific technology but that is not the approach we took with current command and control and that is a significant problem. to be a coalition as a basis. >> so there is a real world
example that all of us are trying to put in place with cooperation and with the secretary heather but there could be more joint training or that initiative to bear fruit but yes. absolutely bearing fruit. but as i explained in the book we managed to make it work. and then to be designed. to see the fruits of our labors.
it with that intelligence community i will not go into all the details that sharing relationship is of a robust individual. so with canadians embedded there was a system recently changed with that security classification to be embedded in the center that was adjusted. but there is a way to figure out that happened.
>> so there seems to be a ways to go to build from the ground up and then where to collaborat collaborate? >> and where are there places there are still barriers? >>. >> the way that it should work is that we should collaborate from the very beginning the air force weapons immigration. to include international partners as part of that. so with that early planning
pieces. from there we can understand in that collaborative sense where there are challenges and shortfalls. in coalition of space. that is a good widget we would like to buy that or sell that. it is harder even in your own country and those that have a stake in the system and to talk about the classification with germany and japan and others there is a different
level of complexity with that system that services a few countries politically with the industry and normally what happens one takes a lead on a project that's the way that it works right now but we are trying to exploit that right now. >> so i kind of want to ask so if space force is made to reorganize the military space infrastructure with unified combat and command and i was
hoping what that means with canadian cooperation. or are there some concerns? >>. >> every country needs to organize if they are censored if i use aviation as an example in canada. the us army owns their own aviation but in canada it is part of the air force. but each that they choose to organize those space capabilities that will not change that level that is a national decision to collaborate however the us decides to organize. >> not going into the details
what a space force might look like but what it decides to authorize it is critical in the planning of that the challenge of our allies. the united states government is very large the executive branch is complicated to understand the right points and i learned about my own government. i am quite confident that is the case. so it is critically important as we develop a set of options approved to go forward to the congress with that international relationship has to occur.
because they are on a ballistic trajectory they can easily determine that has gone from the ground up into space so the computer systems the very first thing they do to say is in orbit or on a trajectory that is how we are big ground-based radar like the one i help run operate because they will see the satellites and the missile launches meteors and media rights are not in earth's orbit but the earth is intercepted into that asteroid field so with those meteor showers we do not typically track those and as the
administrator said there is a capability that goes after the large asteroid that could be tracked. >> with the recent chinese reentry we use that to look at integration where all of the nations reusing analysis systems and sharing with each other predictions just like you would see the path of the hurricanes giving different outcomes. and a lot of lessons learned how to communicate similar systems. >>.
>> a few years ago head no space command and talk about space debris. so with that space force with the ongoing future stratus. >> we will not try to set policy however it is safe to say we are mindful of those challenges and there are ways we can protect those that don't create debris and what is the most practical way to do that? >>.
so what do advise to those countries? >>. >> but then to talk about your perspective what are the things canada has learned? >> i don't mean to be trite but you don't have to be a spacefaring nation to be a space caring nation. but you don't have to own any satellites but be very dependent on space capabilities there are very few individuals that are not in some way shape or form dependent on space capabilities so to that end i think there is a variety of ways to work with the united states department of defense.
so that is the model that we used with the wgs program for military satellite communications and to buy additional satellites. that's the way to do it. and as i described this is not just a practical resilience but a political resilience with those norms of behavior and why like-minded nations want to think about those appropriate norms is part of what we can do to collaborate.
>> annie avenue that's open with the combined space ops that is that we try to exploit bits of bilateral exchange then we look at that. that innovation that industry is providing and the briefings from industry definitely and forms my thought for strategies and objectives. and the nature of space to drive a level of collaboration and those smaller nations that don't have huge budgets can bring.
so where are those greatest innovations it is not necessarily the united states. but we have not been the leader. because they have had to but now this whole burgeoning but that didn't become the department of defense did that but smaller nations and then to exploit that in a positive sense. and there are so many things we could talk about. [applause]