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tv   After Words Charlotte Pence Where You Go  CSPAN  November 11, 2018 12:00pm-1:00pm EST

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thousands of authors and book festivals, including more than 30 events with supreme court justices. here's supreme court justice ruth bader ginsburg from 2016. :: watch this and all other book tv programs for the past 20 years at -the author's name and the word book in the search bar at the top of the page. >> next on "after words",
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mike pence's daughter shares important lessons she learned from her father. she's interviewed by kate brower, author of first in line: president, vice president and the pursuit of power. afterwords is a program with relevant guestposts interviewing nonfiction authors about their latest work . >> host: it's an honor to talk to you about your new book today, thank you for doing this interview. i enjoy reading it. it felt like part memoir, part self help, part biography on your dad, vice president pence and i wanted to ask you about your decision to write the book in the process. how you went through this, you referenced parts of your diary entriesthat you did along the way on the campaign . i wondered if you could talk us through the process of writing it. >> thanks for having me,this is so great . i originally kind of say in
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the book that i always knew i was going towrite this book. i alwaysknew i wanted to write about my family , about my dad specifically . and i think that this book originated a long time ago when i was a little kid, i wrote i think in middle school a booklet of things he taught me about things my dad had taught me and i'd written on every page asecond of something he taught me along the way and he still had that booklet in his desk . so that kind of was probably the originating book behind this book. and i reference it in the preface a little bit, talking about the different lessons that he taught me and how those wind it up in this book but also at the same time how they've added and changed over the years. so originally i thought i was going to write more about the campaign trail and it ended
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up being a lot more about our family and just growing up in a political family and learning lessons from that. >> in the forward, your father writes as a little girl sandwiched between a precocious older brother and a sweet baby sister, charlotte was the classic middle child. a lot of people can relate to being the middle child,can you explain how you fit into that family dynamic west and mark . >> i've been quintessentially in the middle, i've always been kind of, my family will call me the glue or i'll be the go-between between different people and i think when you're in the middle of the family, especially when you're so close in age , we really play off each other but being in the middle and an introvert, i was kind of watching and my brother was very successful and still is
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and was this very driven and very successful and i got to watch both of them and over time, they really encouraged me to find my own voice and to follow my dreams of being a writer as my mom and dad did to. >> host: i love that are you talking in the book about how it sounds almost audacious for a young person who say they want to be a writer and you're going to be like oh yeah, i feel that way orfelt that way when i was younger to . how do your father instill that confidence to do it? you're putting yourself out there in this book in a way that you haven't before so how does he help you kind of be okay with any criticism you might get because everyone gets criticized along the way. how have both your parents helped you in that department? >> one of the things i talk
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about in the book about my dad encouraging me, that because a lot of people and told me this phrase speak your dreams and he always tells people that went especially when kids come to him on the campaign trail, this happened a couple of times when they would come to him and say i want to go into politics one day and you can tell there always a little bit interest about saying that. he always does say that, speak your dreams, that's the first step. tell people you want to do something. so i think that over the years in growing up, my parents thought of me as a storyteller from a young age so they always encouraged me to not only speak my dreams but were also speaking them to me and they did encourage me to have friends and community that also encouraged me in my dreams too. and in regards to criticism,
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i think just watching them just follow their dreams and where they feel led or called , definitely has helped me be able to know how to navigate the criticism that i'm sure comes with public life and with being a writer. >> host: you lived in arlington which is unusual when your father was in congress. your parents move your family to the dc area and you called yourself dc hillbillies. how important was that? because that's not going to happen that much anymore and there's a lot of pressure on members of congress to stay in their districts for political reasons. i would imagine that decision really shaped your whole life if you went to school around here and you have a funny story in the book about going to a bring your pet to congress day but i thought
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that was funny.can you describe the kind of feeling of growing up as a congressman's daughter and what that's like in dc? >> guest: my parents, when my dad was elected to congress they got a lot of good advice from people and specifically the quails for the one who told them that they should if they could, they should move us to dc, to the dc area just because otherwise, they knew maybe on the weekends, when he would travel home which a lot of congressmen and women do,, and i think that it was a really good example of these for our family because i knew i was always invited to travel with my dad and go to things with him. but he was also home for dinner almost every night and
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we would go and get takeout and take it to the capital if he could come home for dinner sometimes so we were verymuch a part of his life and he was a part of our . he was at soccer games and place and was always doing that, doing his role as dad as much as any other role. so yes, it definitely, in that way it impacted me in a very positive way because obviously i had my dad. they are and raising me and teaching me. but it definitely was impactful to because we were in environment that was very different from necessarily a community that probably would have grown up in an indiana. i went to like a public high school and lived in a pretty liberal area and a lot of my friends were and still tothis day are very liberal . so i think being around people that don't necessarily
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agree with your family or your dad politics was a really good thing for me so they kind of helped me i think a more diverse interview maybe. >> and that leads me to another questionbecause a lot of this book , you talk about you just graduated from college so the timing herewas amazing when your father was using donald trump's money, it's a timing . and you talk a little bit about your first reaction to hearing the news and also, your father is very different from donald trump and i think he's outwardly said that. they balance each other out and can you talk about how their personalities differ from one another andhow you think, i'm sure you think that he's a great complement to donald trump because he does balancing out in so many ways . >> myreaction , it's kind of funny. i thought about in the book when my dad first told me that you know, they were potentially going to be on a list to be considered and that's where it started. i hadn't really been
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following the news that much. my brother and sister are much better about that. they follow the news closely. and that summer i was working at a summer camp and i was very busy and was living at home, so i remember my parents mentioned that to me and for some reason i wasn't surprised. i don't know why, because i had never thought of it. but i thought oh, that sounds like a good idea and i think it does play into that balancing idea a little bit. my dad kind of joke openly that he thinks the president maybe wanted someone less charismatic to balance it out. >> and yeah, i think that they do work together well. and i've been able to see that firsthand which has been cool. >> you've always said everything that occurredsince that morning has been a dream or a test or both .
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and i was struck by the. how is it has been a test, how has it tested you and your family because a lot of people would look at this is a dream come true but there are downsides, can you talk about how your life ischanged and the criticism that you face . every day as a politicians daughter. it's not easy. >> guest: it definitelyhas been somewhat of a dream.i remember at the convention , one of our staffers said to me what you thinking right now and i said i think i keep thinking i'm going to wake up soon because how it happened so quickly when they're in the secondfamily, it's crazy. it's within a week or so that you find out . and at least it was for us. it was just very upside down all of a sudden and i think we were tested as a family, definitely. we were very close and always
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come to each other for advice, always play off one another. and we definitely communicated very well which i'm very blessed by that that my brother and sister, i talked to them all the time and i'll talk to myparents all the time and my sister to . i think that i write in the book that there, our circle would be tested like never before and my family, we refer to ourselves as a circle, you're never out. so i talk about that in regards to my sister-in-law so she and my brother got married after the election. so that was i'm sure a big change for her as well and when she was in our family, it was like the six of us going through it together. and we were tested i think especially being basically a part during that time.
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i was on the campaign trail with my parents but i was the only kid that could go for a day or so and keeping that can indication was important. we've always had great communication so when you aren't together and you are seeing things on tv, i think that can get into your mind a little bit so you have to keep that open dialogue even though it can lead to disagreements anddebate , you have to talk and work things out. >> host: you talk about these spirited and healthy debate happening with your sister audrey who is liberal. can you pinpoint a time where you had these debates with your parents at the dinner table where you think you have changed your dad's mind or he has changed yours on an issue? >> guest: that's a good question. i don't know if i know of a
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time when we changed the other person's mind but we were good about having debates and having open conversations that will at least help us see the other side which i think can be almost as important if not more important. i think a lot of times especially at this day and age i talk about in the book that it's very common i think to be friends with people that agree with you because it's easier and more comfortable and on some level you do need that, but i think it's important also to have friends and family that you don't agree with on everything. because then it's not just about the intense politics and it's not about demonizing other people, it's about being eachother on a human level . and realizing at the end of the day your relationship with those people is the most important thing. so yes, we had lots of conversation and continue to.
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i'll call my dad about anything to this day and he will talk something through with methat i read about or want to talk about . so just having that perspective is really important. >> host: you mentioned in the book when your father won his race for governor in indiana, you're from many friends who texted youcongratulations and a few short years later you didn't hear from some of them . have you lost friends because of this, the 2016 election? people that you were surprised that dropped off the map for you and was that painful, because i can imagine it would be. >> guest: i think during the election season it was so high-end and a lot of people's emotions are really high. i think a lot of people had things come up with friendships which is kind of sad to me because i think at the end of the day i said it's way more important to maintain relationships with
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people. there were definitely people that fell out of my life at that time . i think it was hard maybe to reconcile that personal relationship with the politics of the time. but i think at the same time you really find out who your friends are, which i was really blessed by and i mentioned some ofthose friends in the book , just because they were just there for me through that whole time and there for me in ways that maybe aren't as obvious. i think talking to someone on the phone and talking about something other than the election is just as important because life goes on for everybody and it does for us to. so i think just maintaining friendships and finding out who those friends were was important. >> host: this book does a good job of showing is really the surreal nature of being
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in that kind of spotlight and you talk about, i think this was when your father was elected governor and at one point you wanted to give your parents to get and the only place you could do it is in the bathroom . and that's kind of really a small example i think it's a reallypoignant one that a lot of people would be , why? and i wonder if, you also talk about how your use to going with your dad and now you haven't been in a car alone with him or six years. if you ever get advice to baron trump and has anyone given you advice to mark i have gotten advice. i don't know if i've given as much advice, just because also i think the first family is so more public than the second family and i did get advice from people who have been in this position before. and that was helpful to me. i've since the election, i have reached out to megan mccain and talk to her. and then and she has been
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someone that i really admire just because she's a writer as well in the commentator and she's kind of made her own plaque and her own voice being in a prominent political family. so i think i did get, have gotten advice from people and that is helpful. to know that people have gone through it before and i remember i was on the view. a couple of months ago. for the other marlon book and megan joked that i was in, we were in a little political kids club that's very small club and she's right. it's not very many people that understand that. so i definitely want to help the next family as well. quick's era number one advice she gave you in particular? was it to ignore criticism for quick wasn't specific advice as much is just being available . and i know i can kind of, i
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reached out to her sons and she someone who i would being comfortable being going to ask about something just because she's been in the public eye for so long and she's a cool way. i have to ask, do you know if your sister voted for donald trump? >> is not as important i feel like for us to talk about. >> she can speak for herself, but we've definitely been encouraged to make our own decisionsabout things . and i talk about that in the book to that it's not necessarily that we're going to vote for our dad. i think that's cool. when i was on the campaign trail in the election, for 2016, i didn't vote for him and i voted with them and there was like a photo shoot and i remember reporters asking me if i had, they said
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jokingly if i voted for him and i said i did, but i didn't have to. i think that's the cool thing about our family is we encourage like to have our own opinions. >> host: that's special although i can imagine yelling a little guilty not voting for your dad. >> for me, one of the hardest date was october 20, 2016 and you talk about what happened, can you talk about that personal loss and your family and how that you. that's the home started the campaign and you were dealing with, but everyone, you can talk about it but what happened? >> that was a long day after anyway. we were doing work states that they and it was on the west coast. and the first day we landed in, we got word from my
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grandpa that our daughter had passed away and he was a beagle and he's 15 years old so he was definitely at the end of his life and we knew that. we kind of thought he would make it through the election and we were traveling so much and so the grandfather was watching him since he wasn't doing well and he passed away peacefully in his sleep and we are big people. so that was hard and overtime, i'm not especially emotional and i was so upset about that on the campaign trail. i would like trying and the press pool saw me crying and was like, they actually sent condolences bar which was nice, they were little set to be hard for us but yes, that became kind of very symbolic to me because he was our childhood dog.
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and he, when i went back home i knew he wouldn't be there anymore and that was kind of a way that i realized later on and wrote about that if that was me realizing that home was changing, no matter what, even if we lost the election, my dad wouldn't the governor obviously . he was up for reelection that year. so it was kind of crazy to think in a couple months our lives were going to change in one of two directions. >> you write about how home is in the tangible place, it's a family wherever you are you which i think a lot of people in their early 20s, that's a tough time and you write about that transitioning anybody, and labor. >> also, in october 2016 you have the attacks of hollywood to come out and all that.
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how did that affect your family and the stress of that day and i forget which day it was in october. when you are traveling with your parents at the time? >> i was. and you know, i think that when you're on the road and when you're in public life and on the campaign trail, things happen and, and you kind of have to adjust. and i don't really remember that day that well. it's funny when people ask me about the day of the campaign and i talk about my dog. i think they expect me to say something that was morepublic , but i think you kind of adjust and there were a lot of things that happened when we were not home. there were a lot of investigations happening, things were changing all the time. so a day on the campaign trail is like two months in another life. and i think we just kind of adjusted and we were along for the ride. >> you guys tend to do your own thing.
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>> we were and i think that was an interesting part to our side of the ticket, was that we kind of had a dad. we had experience traveling in campaigning and even as a family we had so much experience campaigning so we even knew how to take it slow and how to make sure you're getting sleep and i kind of joke that my role on the campaign trail was daughter but also like assistance and you know, photographer and health coach and field trainer and all this stuff because i was just trying to make sure that my parents were staying healthy too. >> you were taking care of them a little bit. >> my dad would joke, i don't think i have this in the book but he would introduce me and say that i was babysitting my parents and it was kind of true. i was making sure they were eating and not staying up too
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late >> . >> given all the stress that they were under and i can imagine that's really hard . >> in your traveling, i think that much travel, and then to speak, i didn't have to do as much as my dad did to get up and speak, for an hour and then get back on the plane. that just takes a lot of mental preparation too. so it helps when you have a family member that's there to make sure you're getting kind of tired, you should take a nap on the plane ride or something. >> host: you hit on many of the major things we think about in the campaign including when the planes get off the runway at laguardia. i was actually really moved by what you said about your dad getting up and checking on the press because they had parents to and what with their parents one? was that terrifying that night?
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>> guest: it was weird. thinking back, i remember as we were coming in fast on the runway, and it was pretty bad weather too so that added to it. as we were like coming to a stop, and we work stopping and then it was one of the things where shouldn't we be slowing down?and i remember sitting next to one of my dad's staffers and looking at each other going what's happening? and the pilot then veered off and there's stuff on the side of the runway that i didn't know until then that is supposed to break. a plane. so when you see pictures of like the tarmac all messed up, it's supposed to do that because then it will stop the plane from going . i guess something was wrong with the brakes or something on the plane so when we came
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in it just didn't stop. so once we come to a stop and we were off the runway and in the mud and mud was on the windows, my dad checked on my mom and me and then got up and just went to the back of the plane and i remember being, where did we go? of course the press was on them immediately and everyone wasfine . afterwards, the press talk about it publicly that he had gone back and check on them and he didn't even think twice about it. of course, i'm checking on everyone and he's like, if you are out on the campaign trail or something i would want one in authority to make sure everyone's okay, especially because they're in the back and he didn't necessarily know what was going on back there. i think he didn't consider doing anything else. >> host: have you thought of being a reporter? are you interested in politics to the point of being a political reporter or do you want to keep writing
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and do more creative novels, fiction or have you decided what avenue you want to take -mark. >> i haven't really. i was interested in journalism in high school. i just kind of was involved in a little bit. and doing like broadcast news and things like that. i think, i mean i'm open to it. i think in a writing standpoint because i've always wanted to be a writer i think i'm interested in the both fiction and nonfiction in different forms of storytelling, definitely. so i'm not sure but i think maybe he saw mike a little bit of me in that. because i had been interested in that for a while. >> c1q talk about hamilton and the decision to see the show and what happened at the show and you said your heart broke a little that night. i thought that was really interesting. can you talk about what you bought when the gas came out
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afterwards and what do you mean by your heartbreaking a little? how personal was that moment for you and was your idea to go see the show so was you feel guilty or something or want to know more about, what was running through your head? >> that was interesting. was one of, it was after the election and we were in new york city. just starting the transition and i remember just being in some of the offices with my dad and very last-minute being we should go see a show tonight and i talk about in the book was a tradition or he and i growing up. being in dc and being from new york, we would take the bus up for the day and see a show. it was kind of a special father daughter thing we did get to always loved broadway shows andplace . so we just were like a course, let's do it. and i really wanted to see
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happen. i didn't think i would beable to because everybody knows it so hard to get a ticket. i still haven't seen it . but yes, there were a couple options and i was like, we should try to see hamilton. so we got tickets and we went and yes, it was an interesting reaction. i don't think i was expecting that. and i write in the book to i think that when we came in, the lights were on which for security reasons a lot of times doesn't happen. but then the whole audience sauce and people were giving and clapping and a lot of people were booing and it was like this crazy sound. of people really excited and not excited and that was just a learning process for me and probably the start of a longer learning process to be on the receiving end of that kind of reaction. and that kind ofconversation
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. and i do talk about how it kind of my heart a little bit because it was the first time that i had been on the receiving end of that and i think that the stories are such an important way for us to have conversations with one another and to talk about cultural divides or situations that you know, we are uncomfortable with so i mean, my dad and i had no problem with the cast saying that all. and both listened and were open to it as i think you should be in public life and i think my dad is very willing to take and hear people out. but then as someone who is has always loved stories and plays in writing, it was interesting to be on the receiving end, but i think that over time i think these parts art has healed my heart
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and i do think reese can heal people and bring people together and be powerful. >> would have been different if they had come up to you afterwards privately and talk to you? wouldn't have had the same effect of, i would imagine there was a level of just feelingembarrassed . at that moment. >> we definitely had every eye on the place. but you know, i don't know. i think that i don't know. i wouldn't really say how they should have done it.i think that i know what i heard afterwards, they found out we were coming very last-minute and so it was right after the election. emotions were still really high. and i think everybody is going to react in the way that's right for them and i think it's really fine.
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with someone asking this week about that and they said was your dad upset about it? not at all. i don't think at all. >> we drove home that night and talk about the play and themusic like we always did and like we will in the future . we talked about that too and i think that's part of it, that's part of what it's like in public life. >> president trump was upset about it though. i remember he tweeted about it at the time dad didn't really engage on that. >> my dad was open to hearing people out and it's different when you're on the receiving end, like i said. but yes, it was an interesting reaction for sure. >> you talk about your mom mom being a pivotal part of your family life, like most moms,probably the glue this year with you today . really very close and i'm wondering, can you talk about what's, what's her least and most favorite part of being second lady?
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>> that's a good question. i think least favorite maybe is the lack of privacy. that comes with being a in public life. i think that getting use to secret service was interesting for me, my parents had had protection when they were governor and first lady so they got to be a little bit more comfortable with it. but just watching her address and getting her advice on that has been helpful for me. i think most favorite, is definitely just being able to make a positive impact and really highlights organizations and people and charities, she always says not her, if the position that she's in. and she's always been really good about recognizing that i
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think and teaching me that. she won't always be second lady and i think it's cool because she has always said it's not that i'm karen pence, it's that right now i'm first lady of indiana or second lady and she can use that and i think has used that well to highlight people and organizations and to bring awareness and to help people have those conversations andfeel heard. she does a lot with art therapy organizations, military spouses . she's starting to do it more with the opioid epidemic. and i think that that's a really cool way that she's been able to just encourage people but to use the position help other people. >> you begin a chapter saying i'm one of the few women who
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dined with mike pence alone. and i wondered if there was a backlash of course to that. and during this metoo era of women thing that's not fair but you say having dinner with your mom, that meant a lot to you. can you understand, what do you think of the backlash? a: the billy graham law, is not only dad but that's been going on for a while but i think they made it up to the full house. do you understand the criticism of it and you see why people might be critical of that of eating with your wife and i think it was also blown up to not be anywhere where alcohol was served with women. i'm still not entirely clear on it. but what's your sense of how that was taken as a big headline? >> guest: i think a lot of people maybe saw it as he
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doesn't like to talk to women or something or work with women which is not true. it was more something that my parents just kind of decided for their own marriage. they would never tell people how they should do their marriage . they're pretty intentional about that. people have tomake their own decisions about that but for them, they felt it was important . when we first moved to dc, just cannot dine alone with someone of the opposite sex, just because, without another person there. it wasn't like you can never talk to a woman, my dad has worked with women before. >> host: is it true for your mom too? >> guest: i'm not sure, honestly. i think it was more -- i think it was more my dad had
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a focus on it because of his position and everything and i think that i do understand why i think it was blown into another proportion, like you said. but at the end of the day, i always knew my dad was going to put my mom first and his relationship with her really comes above any relationship with anyone else in his life and i think that that was just a way that they decided this is how we're going to protect our marriage and that meant a lot to me as a kid and as a daughter, to see him put her first. >> host: i was struck inthe book when you talk about after the inauguration, you are at the lunch and the secretary clinton is there . can you talk about, it must've been surreal for you. you go up to her and
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introduce yourself and half his interaction with her which is a positive one at the end of it, you say you could totally have understood if she was not as nice to you as she ended up being and what were the thoughts going through your head when you went up to meet her because that must've been apretty emotional moment . >> guest: it was. i was with my sister and i remember we were in, there's a luncheon in statuary hall after the inauguration and a lot of former presidents and first ladies are there so it's a cool thing to be at and i saw secretary clinton across the room and i never met her before, i'd seen her in person a couple times and i said to my sister i was like, i've never met her and i said we should go introduce ourselves and i think i was probably like no, nervous about it but we went up and she was unbelievably kind and gracious. i write in the book that i noticed that she took an interest in me, which i think
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is something that just seemed intentional.she obviously has daughter. she knows what it's like for a kid to be in public life and to be in the spotlight, and i remember her telling me she had a granddaughter named charlotte. >> host: and you say something like of course i knew that. >> guest: i didn't want to freak her out. but she asked me what i was doing in school or what i studied and what i was doing and she's just really kind and i really came away from that experience just very moved that she wasn't rude but she wasn't hurt. she wanted to know about me and that meant a lot, especially as a kid in a political family. your used not being in the spotlight necessarily. and she just really took an interest in me.
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>> host: i don't think this happens as much with your dad's speeches but certainly with president trump, sometimes you have people in the crowd chanting lock her up about the clintons. what do you thinkof that? do you think that they're going way too far when they say things like that about her, especially after that personal interaction ? that doesn't seem to be the way your father and the pence team operates. it seems very different, outside of perspective from the trump team so when you see that, does that bother you at all? sometimes the chanting that gets a little nasty? >> i think people are going to react how they're going to, especially at rallies and stuff like that. i certainly have not really been to rallies like that ever in regards to my dad being a politician and i talk about that in the book too, that my dad never drew that
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many people at a rally. so we've never seen that before. but it goes back to that personal connection. i think having personal relationships with people is so important and seeing people as human. i would also apply that the secretary clinton. i definitely didn't know her personally and i don't know her personally, but i think when you meet people, a lot of your preconceived notions and biases do go away. and i also talk about that in some regards to myself in the book. people ask me all the time when people meet you, are they mean to you or are they weird about who your dad is? honestly, people i think for the most part have really given me the benefit of the doubt . and a lot of times when they find out who my dad is,
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depending on what their political beliefs are, it doesn't really matter if they're republican and they like my dad or if their democrat and they don't like him. at the end of the day, they kind of realized for the most part that we're all people and there's probably more to everybody and we see in the media. >> host: you also talk about being on stage and this must have been on inauguration day when they were handing over the reins and she and president obama took the transcend it struck me as sweet but also a bit ominous because what did she say? i found it interesting. >> guest: she gave us a hug and after my dad was sworn in and send and said hello to everybody, she said my sister and me, she said old bike to each other, your all you have.
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and i just remember that was so honest and it was so important . you talk about getting advice to the next family or giving advice to people who are going into public service, i mean, that is such good advice. i think what she was saying is kind of what i've written about a little bit in the book about the circle and about maintaining connection and that open medication and that dialogue. how i read her words was saying, don't let this position or the stress or pressure of anything going on affect those relationships. cling to each other because at the end of it, that's the people that will be there. >> that were you hearing it? >> there's something foreboding about it to me.
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the outside world is not going to be there for you anymore, if the family and i know barbara bush has told hillary clinton that she wished she had a sibling or a family member to be with her because she was an only child so that the isolation of that, do you feel because you're ina second family , there's just a level less of that? what are youable or were you able to see your friends? obviously now you're out of this bubble . but was it really a learning curve for you, those first few months after your dad,you moved into the observatory ? >> i think that you know, it definitely is an adjustment. and you are in the bubble a little bit. and so you kind of have to figure that out a little bit. i think that you know, for the most part from what michelle obama had said to me , i don't know if it was, if i thought of it as ominous at the time and i think that was
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because i had had experience being in public life at a lower level. and i do think in the first family you are at a lower level, i walk outsideand no one recognizes uim . which is so nice, i don't think banca trump, it's nice, i can go for a run. but yes, i think that her words to me were just very true and i think after the campaign trail as well, i definitely understood what she was talking about. maybe if the campaign trail and then different or if the election had been kind of with such high, intense emotions and i have had those friendships come and go, i might have been a little like , what's going to happen when i sat through the doors? i think i had a good idea what she meant. >> how much interaction you
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have with the other trump children? is there a lot of, how often do you see them? is there a lot of interaction between the second family and the first family mark . >> we have a good relationship and they've always been very kind to us. and just included us so much. >> and i think on the campaign trail especially, since the second family ticket or whatever you want to call it was kind of separate from necessarily what trump was doing, a lot of times the siblings would be where we were so that we got to spend a lot of time with them which was awesome. we got to know them pretty well and i spent time withall of the trump children at some point . they really operate a lot like we do as a family. they're very close to you can tell by the all to each other's advice and medication very seriously though that
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was really cool to see just how supportive they are of one another, but yes, i definitely remain close with the trumps and it's been a really cool experience to go through. >> host: what did you think of melania saying she was one of the most bullied people? you are probably in the book at this point. but she talked about the reason why she took on the be best campaign and one of the reasons why she feels like she's one of the most bullied people in the world and i wonder if you felt like looking at your lens and seeing, if you go ontwitter there's negative about every woman . but i wondered if you kind of felt some sympathy for her and agreed with that that there is a lot of vitriol and anger out there that's directed towards her lesson mark do you think that's true ? or have you given that any thoughts?
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>> i haven't given it a lot of thought. i think that it's definitely valid to feel that way, especially when you're in the public eye and especially you know, i think that our family was in politics for so long so to be kind of thrown into it very quickly, i'm sure is different and i remember my dad getting negative press when i was in elementary and middle school and not liking that. and i still don't like that, but at least i understand a little bit how the system works and how it's supposed to work that way. and i talk aboutin the book , my dad always says whenever we see protesters that events he says that's what freedom looks like he says that about a lot of things all the time and he has for a long time. when we were in indiana when he was governor, there were a lot of the yard signs that
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said pencemust go around our house for a while . and i remember him saying it a lot then. he would say that's what freedom looks like . that was just engaged ingrained in my mind from a young age that if you're in public life and you take criticism, that's part of it but that also is kind of a good thing because it means that people in the press or citizens in everyday life feel comfortable and safe speaking out against their elected leaders which isn't true for every country in the world. >> host: is it harder for your mom and your dad to deal with it? when i was researching first ladies, they said how it was a lot harder for them to address that criticism of their husbands and it was for their husbands because you take it very personally and i think it is harder sometimes then the spouses to deal with this kind of criticism.
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your mom handle it? >> guest: she handles it really well and i think she has the same mindset he does about it. i talk about in the book the unsung heroes of many families and political families andmilitary families are the spouses . it is, i say in the book that you're the one kind of from what i've seen that's behind-the-scenes. kind of cheering on a person who's inthe spotlight . and cheering someone on has a lot of different layers to it. it's very multifaceted. >> host: you talk and i know we don't have much time but can you read this passage in the book where you are at the republican national convention and it's your sister-in-law's birthday and i think it's a sweet story and it's a little window into what it's like behind the
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scenes where your mom is loading bullying balloons in the car. >> guest: oh my gosh, this is funny . the day before the republican national convention was sarah's birthday. she and michael would be in attendance for the event. mom and i made a quick run to the grocery store in cleveland to buy balloons and confetti to decorate her room. we paid for our many party supplies and went out to the secret service vehicles to realize we had a problem. the balloons would not fit in the back of the car since these vehicles are armored and have a different skeleton and regular cars. we stopped them into the truck and did our best not to laugh at the agents helped as they are required to have their hands free at all times. the ride back to the hotel i noticed cleveland work was mostly empty due to the increased security on the borders of the city. there was extremely difficult for anyone to enter during the convention since security was tight. despite this weariness i felt
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along the vagrant roads back to the hotel. i couldn't help but smile as one of the balloons we had loudly playedhappy birthday . every time it bumped up against the ceiling, the song began again and the ridiculousness of our situation began to set in. there we were, just a normal family and our eyes heading to surprise are almost sister-in-law with a birthday celebration. we were in cars similar to tanks, being driven by people we did not know through a city which had been closed down due to the presence of other important people off. it was odd. >> i like that, it's human. it's that human moment that people don't get to see . now, i thought that was sweet and it also makes me think, is there ever a part of you that just so my gosh, i wish my parents worked in politics. i wish i didn't have to orchestrate a simple birthday party for some cloak and dagger mission. have you ever thought that going up when your dad was governor of indiana?
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>> just a normal life. >> i write in the book that one of the earlier chapters i say i wouldn't have minded growing up in one house with one guard that we changed our whole lives and that was what my parents thought they would do. they built a house in indiana. my mom planted dogwood trees in the backyard when we were born. we put our handprints in the cement. very much that would be really lives forever in southern indianapolis. and then obviously not a god had different plans for our life and i'm very grateful for the amazing opportunities and the privilege that it's been just being a public family and to serve in public life area and i think that you know, parents have shown me how to take it all in stride and have even at times when it's kind of stressful, to just be really grateful
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for all those challenges and how they make us closer as a family. and how they just shown me how to follow your calling and follow your dreams and sometimes it will be easy but that's kind of the fun of it at the end of the day. >> host: you had an interesting post observatory video where the vice president, and you talk about your decision, now you're at harvard divinity school and your decision to pass that to go to harvard and what you're studying there now? >> i after living in the observatory for a little while with myparents , i had the digital cinema and creative writing in school so i knew i wanted to work in the entertainment industry. so i moved to la and i worked at united talent agency for a year and that was just, that was a great experience. it definitely showed the ins and outs of the industry, to
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work in agencies and you see every level. and that was a very important year for me because it really worth me to be on my own. and away from my family. across the country, three time zones away. a very liberal part of the country . >> host: you probably have a lot of friends there thatwere not from fans . >> guest: that help you grow to, being around people that don't necessarily agree with your family politics. and then yes, it was really on my heart for a couple years after college to possibly go back to school to study theology and i didn't know why. i knew it was an interest of mine and i thought maybe it was a hobbyand it's over a year , they kept thinking about it so i applied to a couple programs last year and i got into harvard divinity school and was just really thrilled and excited about
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that. mostly because it's such a diverse place, there's so many different religions represented and they also have a sub category in literature so i thought it would enhance my writing and to help me write with a more informed voice on top of the cultural topics as well you people recognize you at all? >> i don't think so. maybe because people know they be in the divinity school then they'll know who i am but i don't know. i feel like you have to do some googling to figure out what i looklike . maybe they do but i don't feel that. >> host: have your parents come to visit you? >> guest: my mom helped me move in and i think my parents, i think they're going to see me at some point. i pass them a couple times and we do the party run, there's almost nothing so she
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was a great help with that. >> host: charlotte, it's a pleasure talking to you and it's an interesting book that is a combination i think of memoir, biography, a little self thrown into so i appreciate it. >> guest: thanks a lot. >> if you'd like to view other "after words" programs online, go to our website, type into the search bar and all previous "after words" episodes will be available. >> for the past 20 years, book tv has been covering festivals and around the country, 200 today . here's a look at other festivals. the national book awards will be presented november 14 in new york city. they will be live with officer thomas collins with segments from the miami book fair 17th and 18th and at the
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end of january, it's the mirage writers festival in california and for more information about upcoming book fairs and festivals, watch our previous festival coverage at the book fairs tablet on our website, . >> you're watching book tv with nonfiction authors every weekend. book tv, television for serious readers. >> this weekend on "after words", republican senator ben sasse argues the country lacks unity and offers his thoughts on how to repair it. we have coverage of the recent southern festival of books in nashville with author discussions on civil rights, rural america, the country's political divide, race in america and more and jean marie vesq


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