tv Os Guinness Last Call for Liberty CSPAN December 24, 2018 1:00am-2:26am EST
is wrong in your democracy. democracy. the donald trumps the election is a warning whenever you think of him, to the rest of us that this is going in the wrong direction. the population couldn't get the intention of the policymakers so they elected him to break the glass. okay i'm going to elect this orange guy and maybe that will get your attention. >> booktv.org type the author's name in the search bar at the top of the page. you quieted down so nicely. good evening to all of you and welcome to the trinity forum conversation featuring the ideas of the new book last call for liberty out of america's genius for freedom has become the greatest threat. i'm the president of the trinity forum and on behalf of all of us involved, we are so delighted
that you are here. we are also grateful to the anonymous yet very generous donor who made tonight's event possible, and we know that it's been hard to find the space but if any of you are still looking for a place to sit, there's plenty of seating on the balcony if you walk out the door is, we have a whole army of interns eager to take you to the elevators to find a comfortable spare seat so do avail yourself of that opportunity. i'd also like to welcome a few special guests who are here tonight with us. we have two trustees have come in from out of state and we are delighted to have them here. mike brennan from columbia south carolina and george clark from houston texas thank you for joining us. we know there are a large number of people here tonight who are involved in the very founding of the trinity forum. i won't call you all by name but i want to give a shout out thank
you for coming and welcome tonight. we also have a large contingent from north carolina, so if you are from north carolina and you've come for this event, raise your hand and we are so glad to have you here. [applause] we've been delighted by the enthusiasm for tonight's event and we know there are many people who want to be here tonight and could not be in for one reason or the other. so if you are friends with those folks and have been talking with them, let them know they can follow alive live stream even as we speak and they can access either the trinity forum youtube page or our facebook page, they have their choice of social media. we will also be posting videos in the next couple of days and i believe c-span is covering as well, which we are delighted. we will have photos on facebook page so tune in tomorrow, tag your friends and add comments and those that can't tear
yourself from your twitter feed we do have two different hash tags going on at tts tonight and last call for liberty so feel free to add your comments and opinions. i also know there's a number of people where tonight is the first event. if that describes you and you are not familiar, a little bit of background about us. we use this to provide a space and resources for the discussion of wife's greatest questions in the context of faith and we do this by providing reading and publications which draw upon classic works of literature and letters that explore the questions of life and connect the timeless wisdom of the humanities with a timely issue of the day. as well as programs such as this one tonight which connect thinkers with thinking leaders and engaging those questions of life and ultimately coming to
better know the author of the answers. obviously one of the great questions of life is how to order a just and free society and how such a system can be sustained, protected and transmitted to a new generation. it's a question that has occupied the speaker tonight for many decades and has been a focus of his life's work and it's a question that seems particularly urgent and poignant at a time when authoritarianism is on the rise around the world and becomes an essay about what freedom is and requires is rapidly eroding. when a civic and relational bonds that had connected citizens across differences are rapidly dissolving. when the character traits and habits that were historically understood to sustain and preserve freedom are dismissed as pretentious or obstacles to
action and efforts to divide, antagonize, confuse or demonize seem to be rewarded with click, boats, funding or celebrity status. in his new work last call for liberty for which this evening also serves as the national book launch, the speaker will argue the rival and a reconcilable ideas of freedom that are increasingly pulling the country apart, and they are headed for a showdown. he argues that in the midst of our political polarization and tribalism in his words, quote, the deepest division is rooted in the differences between the two changing and opposing resolutions the american revolution of 1776 and the french revolution of 1789 and the rival views of freedom and the american experiment. understanding the differences
between the views that human freedom is vital as a necessary first step towards valuing, safeguarding and transmitting a freedom that not only saves us from despotism offers a commendation for the common good and human flourishing it is by any measure a fascinating and provocative argument and there are few who can make it with the eloquence, energy or expertise much less the english accent as our speaker tonight. [applause] it is an honor and a delight to be back in the trinity forum. i speak as most of you know as an englishman and a visitor to
the country but a very strong admirer. i speak tonight with deep concern as i watch your country depressing moment it is often said that there are times when history and human decisions made at a single point to cut the nation's fortunes. it was like that for rome when caesar crossed the rubicon and it was like that for england when they sailed out. it was like that for you when the first shots were fired at lexington and concord. others would argue that it's the accumulated consequences of many decades that shaped the course of the nation, and one could argue that today. i am not sure which side to take that as i look at the country, i
believe that america is suffering its gravest crisis since the civil war and it is deeply divided as any time since just before the civil war. and all of this at the moment when we can see the challenges globally of the western world and the evident decline. the search for the new world order was faltering and now people are talking about global tinderbox. if the world agenda overwhelmed with problems some of them unprecedented and as we look towards the future we see the master generation to generation through genetic engineering and the social engineering could put a stamp on the whole human future without the consent of the future generations through as we discussed singularity and so on and at this very moment
for the world, america so deeply divided. but what is the deepest cause of the division and why does it matter? as you know we have many suggested explanations. another round of left against right. the globe against the national politicos flanders against the heartland and many other explanations like that. one of the previous speakers here speaks of a rich white civil war. the next speaker talks about loneliness as the root problem of the country that i would argue you listen to the debates and as we look at the movements that flowed through the last 50 years, multiculturalism, tribal politics, victim politics,
social construction of some, the revolution and on and on, you can see they have very little to do with 1776, but everything to do with ideas that come from 1789 and its heirs. i don't think 1789 directly but the french enlightenment behind it and the descendents of it and in the 1920s rising from italy and more recently herbert in new york in the 1960s and even more recently. if we understand the idea is thaideas thatthey have launchedr culture you can see how many of the movements were closer you just say postmodernism, god is dead all that is left is power, were all naked power and you can
see in many of the movement also the incidence of notion of resistance, the effect of the hearings, and one could go on. i believe the problem is best understood in light of seeing the difference between those two views of the american republic and freedom in particular. but why is that important? freedom is central for a couple of reasons. as saint augustus used to say the nations are best understood not by the size of the population are the strength of their army or the throwaway to the missiles is best understood by what the nation was supremely and seeing it that way there is no question but for americans and outsiders the central part of america is freedom and you
can give a thousand reasons for supporting the very obvious to you who are americans but why has that gone so wrong? it was predicted a pro- libertarian [inaudible] grants key sitting in jail under mussolini said it was wrong and we need to sharpen the analysis. the problem isn't a conflict of class a conflict of culture and the revolution would come by winning the cultural hegemony gaining the hearts and minds of the gatekeepers, the ruling class and then you can control the country and you can see in the rise of the cultural marxism call it what you like many terms that began to come in the
1960s. to refer as a promissory note you see a different view and around 1968 that is good here when the leader of the red brigade called for in the light of grants key is long march through the institutions and 50 years later precisely this year you can see how much of colleges and universities and much of the press and media and world of entertainment has actually been one of the views that come from that side of course i mentioned at the deepest divided since
just before and in that time you had lincoln who knew the evils facing the country and he fought for years against the moral evil of slavery and he fought against it in light of his belief in the declaration and he addressed the better angels of the american nature. i was in philadelphia a couple weeks ago and reminded of the speech is on his way to washington. he comes to philadelphia, neither speech was prepared, rather off-the-cuff but he says and both of them the ideas came from that declaration and one of them he finishes may i not forget huger fusillade and he
refers to his love of the declaration and he picks it up and says many mine right hand forget and my tongue cling to the roof of my mouth if i am unfaithful to the ideas that came before this building and he said as he hopes to turn the country around and if he fails and is assassinated it would be something worth trying and as we know it was only a few years later he was there again when he laid in state. addressing the crisis addressing liberty and justice for all that
comes from the declaration in other words there is at the moment no vision and courage and leadership. no one will make america great again unless they ask what made it great in the first place and go far deeper than the issues such as the economy. america is a nation by in chin and ideas and unless they are restored in their understanding you can see the ideas that come from a very different revoluti revolution. in other words, america today is that a rubicon moment. when caesar stood there in front of that narrow print in northern italy, their fate stood on the hinge when he crossed it cicero said come and he was the first to use the word rino, cicero
said rome was now a republic in the name of money and for better or worse, he shifted it to the empire of the caesars. america is at that moment and the question is will the founding vision, the principles and all that they mean for freedom, will they be restored or will they slowly be replaced? that is the issue before the country and i call the americans to the national conversation, a national town hall meeting. 1776 restored or 1789 and it says replace it. a national conversation.
in the debate that followed that it was quite clear while americans were interested in sustainable freedom, never of them asked what freedom is so this book is a checklist offered as an admiring visitor and a checklist of questions for americans to ask how they come out on the basic questions that touch on freedom. they come out with a deeper understanding of what the framers were trying to do what one comes out dismissing them and building in going in a difd i would argue the other revolution is disastrous for freedom and if we look at the major revolutions of the world of the english revolution which failed, the american revolution which succeeded and then the
alternatives the french in 1789 by the russian in 1719 and the chinese in 1949 which i was a small boy around ten to witness. the first to have a very distinctively different view of freedom. in fact through the reformation they go back to the scriptures although in the english revolution it failed but what was the losing cause in england became the winning cause in doing that but each of the two were very different from the others, the french, russian and chinese and yes many of the ideas particularly among the intelligentsia today many of them unwittingly closer to the ideas that come from that side rather than from the american. the first question i raised is the one i spoke on last year where does freedom come from.
i put that in the only because with the attacks in the 60s and now the attacks on the white privilege there is no suggestion that what used to be a commonplace much of the new england liberty is ancient liberties of the english. only historians would be interested in math today. plus you ask where freedom comes from today and they say democracy, but it didn't. it comes through the reformation back to mount sinai and i think we need to explore how sinai and the exodus and the covenant made such a difference in shaping the early understanding of the country because you have a different view saved in democracy from 50 years and no more. and the framers were extremely wary about all of the direct
democracy but the democracy at large for various reasons whereas the constitutionalism is rich in its implications on citizenship. the second question i raise what do americans mean by freedom. a rose is a rose is a rose that you can't say freedom is freedom is freedom. it's much more challenging and complex then that and you can see the different views of freedom come out in different places in the 1850s abraham lincoln said everyone talks about freedom but they mean different things and today there are other profound differences from that. the greatest historian of freedom argued the basic differences letting those who seek freedom seek permission to do what you like and those who see freedom as the power but
there are many other subtleties that come out into our studies and lifestyles today. i was saying in the discussion earlier i had the privilege of being with a great jewish philosopher and i can still hear his rich, deep voice arguing that the differences between negative freedom and positive freedom. no one is free if they are under the constraint of the coercion of any external person or force whether it's colonial power or a bully or whether it's drugs or alcohol or thermography. negative freedom is the beginning of freedom. but that is only the preliminary and th behalf of freedom as i argued freedom is negative, but
it's also positive. it's freedom to be, freedom for. that's more challenging because you need truth. you need to know the truth of who you are in order to be free to be who you are and of course that is where the differences come in and get a truth itself is thrown out the window, but it's never negative on my and much of american freedom and libertarian freedom is purely negative. get the government off my bank balance and off my body the different sides say but then you can see the problems that grow out of negative freedom, it's unsustainable and funds into the license and americans need to look up the challenge o at the m and what it actually means and how it can be cultivated. the third question is have
americans really faced up to the paradox of freedom. all of us in this town have been to the korean war memorial. ponder the words freedom is not free. brief, inspiring and poignant. obviously referring to the full measure as lincoln called it for those who gave their lives for the freedom of the country. the paradox is much darker than that and not so memorable, but it's simple. the greatest enemy of freedom is freedom. the greatest enemy of freedom is freedom. you squeeze the whole history of civilizations in two one-hour, they only come in within the last five minutes. freedom is rare and fleeting.
it's rarely sustained. sometimes it becomes permissiveness and license, anarchy and rebounds from one side to authoritarianism. sometimes they so love freedom they want to be safe and secure and have so much for security and surveillance one nation under surveillance. against freedom loving people so love freedom they will do anything to fight for freedom including things that contradict freedom and you can go on down the line and see the ways that freedom undermines itself. freedom requires some restraint on our appetites and desires but the trouble is the only appropriate form of freedom is self-restraint and self-restraint is what is underlined quickly when freedom
forages and becomes licensed and we can go on. oregon and a great friend a point about freedom requires two things, but people only think of one. it requires the constitution, the law. you can leave those town for decades if not centuries but that is only half of freedom. it requires the structures of freedom and the spirit of freedom and that has to be cultivated into every generation and passed down from generation to generation and if it fails eventually the structures of freedom remain nothing, but the deepest part of the paradox is spiritual and psychological. there is a certain freedom and tierney and a certain tierney in freedom.
freedom requires responsibility. people are responsible, the responsibility is tough, challenging, demanding and it's easier to be dependent on others, on the government, others, who matter and people give over their freedom for entitlement and various other forms of and freedom goes in other words aanother word says t it simply fo deliberation is not liberty or as they put it otherwise it took one day to get israel out of egypt but it took 40 years and counting to get egypt out of israel and you can see the grumbling and the desire to go back, the hunger for other guard. liberation was one thing the liberty was another and liberties like the 10,000
principle demands discipline and obedience in the same direction and you can see the paradox could simply america is the land of the free but people say why do you have more recovery groups than any other land in the modern world. you say you are free but clearly area after area it's become obsessions and addictions. americans are not as free as they say they are and i could go on. one of the issues i raise is the whole question of freedom and diversity. i had the privilege of watching my first ideas under the wonderful leadership of the doctor with us tonight. religious freedom, freedom of religion i and conscience i was involved and later the global
and we'll see the american charter of the freedom of religion and conscience launched at the american archives. the chargers 30 years ago this year or the freedom restoration act you had the extraordinary consensus it's sad to say that there's been a bigger change on religious freedom in the last 20 years than all the previous years of america put together. the reducers and those who talk of religious freedom which james madison called the free exercise and the declaration of human rights described as the rights to adopt and practice and share and change your views if you start thinking of each of those incredible implications but now
it's reduced and even the previous presidents and secretaries of state for here talked only about freedom of worship that any of you know every self-respecting dictator. whatever you think between your two years so long as your mouth is shut and you stay in your home you have the freedom to worship. that is sent with the first amendment meant and those who are shrinking in this way are doing so as a monstrous injustice to the greatness of american history. the second is the removers. particularly in light of 9/11, so many of those who are atheists said now we see the ugly face of religion. we've got to remove it from public life altogether. there have been even earlier strict separationists.
some of them americans united and so on but the american revolution was different from the first amendment, from the french revolution increasingly for many people now freedom has become freedom from religion not religious freedom as freedom for religion including atheists but it's the third dark bar that is the problematic when permanently and i cal called them that read branders. back to the revolution again and again they talk of civil liberty and religious liberty, twin brothers hand in hand. now it's been rebranded from america's first liberty which they call it to being a code word for bigotry and discrimination but the logic of this doesn't just undermine religious freedom which is bad enough, it undermines the right
to dissent and undermines the right to conscientious objecti objection. many profound things were at stake in this new idea. the removers, the reducers and read branders and in 20 short years this country that had a better record than any country in history on religious freedom is now in the same turmoil as the rest of the world is, to me it is profoundly sad and the sometimes outrageous that it is sorrow or anger at som of some e arguments that i see. where does this leave us? on the one hand, certain things are obviously required. i would argue we need a leader on the level of lincoln with
courage and a sense of historical perspective who's able to address the current problems which are here but in the light of the better angels of the american nature and my wife and i pray daily that god will raise up such a person. at another level, we need a restoration of civic education, of transmission so all the first things in the american experiment are alive and vibrant in every generation. of course you can see how the influence of multiculturalism in 1905 originally rather despised and attacked by people like john dewey and walter with an event relief were shown t worshipful s but then became the reigning
ideology and for things like tribal politics and civic education went out the window. but then of course the public schools which were not just free universal education but free universal education that talked the first things of the american experiment no longer did. but in terms of the original motto what you were left with is the balkanization. it's often pointed out people could write ten or 12 principles whatever that background of americans would agree on. i tested it out today.
hardly anyone talks about civic education and what it means for every generation to learn what it is to the american and it's relatively easy to become an american at a third level altogether, we need a new openness for freedom whether it is freedom of speech, think of the campuses, where freedom of religion as i was saying and without that, the very vitality will eventually wither away. the great scholar who put the notion on the map wanted in his
later actions he pointed out it comes from the middle east and the culture then he said what makes an oasis luxuriant, large and lasting, one thing only, the wellspring and it's the wellsprings of faith and freedom no talk of freedom and no matter the constitution will eventually keep freedom of worship so certain things are relatively obvious that need to be done as part of this restoration. at the same time as we look at this moment in the later history you can see the incredible warnings of history.
caesar augustus thought that he created a permanent republic and imperial republic of that which was that's why rome has the title of the eternal city that was his assist on the eternal? no. we look at the genius of the american founders. they believed across-the-board you could create a free society that could stay free forever. never been done but they believed they had the way. few americans today could even tell you what the system they created to keep it sustainable. and while they've neglected it, no one has tried to pick something betteputsomething bete which means the freedom is unlikely to last and the warnings of history are sobering. you know the old saying the worst is the corruption of the
best. it's a matter of profound that he was our best educated and most cultured, most highly civilized country with philosophers like emmanuelle and physicians like beethoven produce the holocaust and the worst is the corruption of the past and i would just say to you there are things happening in your country today which are those of you who love their country is this the america we've known, these things are unrecognizable and we're just seeing the beginning of some of these ideas working out and you know the history of the peloponnesian war it's the state of the island on curfew and you can see some of the things that
happened at this very decade are things that happened there. for example, when people didn't accept democratic elections are undermining thundermining the ld in reaction to look at and realized political differences and others fought back with fire against fire and eventually the states was reduced to nothing and you can see how much of the liberal left today are following patterns that are brought destruction on previous countries and civilizations. witlet me finish with a plea tou as i said i am not american. i love my american wife and i have a son who is half and half. [laughter] british passport and an american passport. i love this country very deeply
but my concern isn't just for freedom today for you. your experiment is the titanic significance in history. this is the longest running public tutorial of freedom in all of human history. countries and civilizations rise and prosper through the ingenuity of their freedom and at the same time countries and civilizations decline and fall through the corruption of their freedom and america is facing this question will it restore the realism and balance of the original freedom understanding the flaws that have to be recognized and addressed or was it go another way and destroy
the freedom altogether? i have no idea what is going to happen. such is the very nature of freedom that you can never turn people's motives for why they act and the wonderful thing about the biblical view which incidentally is unique to jews and christians you don't find freedom in the egyptians are the babylonian. you don't even find freedom fundamentally in the greek. everything was finally paid and then they put it very sober you don't find freedom among the secularist philosophers. spinoza, marks, jb watson and down to the new idea what is freedom, he says, the front cover of the book is a puppet
with strings. you cannot use the naturalist science alone to get a grant for freedom. freedom is actually unique to the jewish and christian scriptures but being what it is in the best forecasts they will never be able to close the circle with certainty to see what is going to happen. it depends on mass and i would say to you in light of where we are today, the choice is yours. will this great american story, this great american journey of this great american quest for a free and just society be finished in this generation because people gave up on the founding principles or will there be enough to have the
courage to explore and stand against it with all the challenges we have in the universities and other places today? the choice is yours and so also will be the consequences. thank you. [applause] thank you. we will have a brief conversation here before turning over to the most dynamic part of the conversation which is hearing from the audience. before we do that, just a few of the points that you made, i wanted to ask about some of the solutions you propose, one of which was the year agai of namea link in like meter and of course some of the challenges the leaders have now are both
structural and technological and different things are reworded now than they were in when didn't stay. it's not the politicians no longer give talks about civic education or the better angels of nature but more likely none of them are ever covered and what tends to get more attention to get more press coverage is that which is either trivial or plaintive argumentative and polarizing. what advice would you have for the leaders who wish very much to rally those in their nature but also space for constraints of needing to raise money to get attention and to get elected? >> i understand what you're saying and that is by president trump uses twitter to leap over the media and i had the privilege of meeting a number of
white houses and oncwhite housep david president clinton said he invoked the state of the union because there was the only time in a year when he spoke directly to the people not mediated by the media and all the different opinions so i understand all that, but i have to say that while i've heard wonderful talks on the civic education i grew up with churchill. he was seasoned with history almost every great speech at a historical perspective but without mentioning names, i can only think of two people in our 30 years that have that sense of history as addressing the present problems. it is a rare thing. while capable of it -- >> another was a frustration that includes civic education and also an author that you
quote repeatedly in your buck and the habits of the heart. which of the habits do you believe are most important for sustaining freedom and which would you most recommend to the members thinking of practical ways that they can help sustain freedom in their own communities? the foundations are so deeply gone that it's going to go back to the notions of truth, integrity, what do we mean by words, trust & move up to human dignity, freedom, justice, what do these things mean and many of them become clichés and many of them become very hollowed out clichés by the unit i meant a
rather different number of things, rule of law, separation of power, things like that sort should include an appreciation of those but i'm thinking of things that are crucial to independence. a free society should be a self-governing society people don't need the government to tell them everything but the responsibility is a tough notion and that is at the heart of the scripture. the choose actually argue responsibility for your responsibility is at the heart of the fall so adam, the woman you gave me your cane, my brothers keeper each of them is the slapping off of responsibilities to bring children today to bring debate could be responsible that is one of the habits of heart. >> host: another you mention is the importance of making and
keeping promises. i was hoping you could tell a little bit more about why an ordinary human commitment is so important to sustain freedom. >> families depend on trust, business depends on trust, and all of them are doing badly. so people make that sort of vein but if you think i will see you at 11 tomorrow what you say let's have lunch next tuesday if i don't turn up or you don't three times in a row, you are not trustworth trustworthy and t things in life depend on trust and commitment and keeping promises. now that is highly controversi controversial. machiavelli threw that out the window. it is unbinding to what you think of politics now in the postmodern world i'm not going to mention names but people say
today it is completely different they just don't keep their word. the very system when they do that, so that is important. of course he believed in and autonomous individual, the human is and tumbled to make a vast notion is of promise kicking but the lord keeps his word, humans don't and that is the problem. think of the difference. for martin luther king it was a commissary to appeal to the declaration symbolized by its flag with any disrespect to that
is disrespect to the promise of a note so i would say what revolution are they looking to if you disrespect or misunderstood we should be challenging yes there is injustice, it has to be remedied but if you believe in the declaration you've got to see frederick douglass booker t. washington. they hated slavery and the fact that for all it's worth but they believed in the declaration that wadeclarationallows the standart was the standard that it could be remedied. that is the difference in much of the hard left today. >> you mentioned martin luther king jr. and one of the things your book explores is a key difference between the two types of revolutions was the insistence that change takes time and transformation requires patience and by wondering the same speech when martin luther king talks about the promissory note he also talks about the fierce urgency of now and the
fact that justice delayed is justice denied. how do you balance those ideas that change takes time with a recognition there can be a body count to the lack of justice extended. >> if you look at the history, the other three, the french, the russians, the chinese were all utopian. he just had to break a few things. whenever it's the possibility of change there is a gap between reality and th the ipo and its always field with coalition and of course that is when martin luther king was a pacifist. he wouldn't take to violence and that's the difference between some of us who followed them who are impatient. you could say go back.
floyd douglass or william davidson. he was attacked as an incrementalist he liked to do it step by step because change has to take place in the human heart you can't just change structures. it was all or nothing he actually inflamed the south even more by the extremism of the rhetoric so as soon as people are utopian, they will take to extremists. it has been echoed by some and talking about political democracy essentially what allows freedom contains the seeds of its own destruction and as you know there've been an increasing number of intellectuals and conservative
intellectuals have predicted liberalism and perhaps by extension freedom has already failed. >> thank you. i come out of the reformation background. they come out of a different one and beach right to say that american freedom does all that things in the world and it doesn't. you can see pretty much like this, historians say they copied greek ideas roman structures and a but hope and all the.
the context was his own church the reformation not immediately be called and the protestants of protestantism. the biblical view of freedom is tough you have to follow a way of life to be free or jesus of nazareth says you will know the truth into th and the truth wilu free. he would say that a is a sort of freedom.
for the last half-hour we will cringturn to the most dynamic pf the event which is to hear from you in the audience if three guidelines to ask that the questions be brief, simple and icivil and inthe form of an edue co- question. we will have two different microphones going around. please wait until i've called on you and if you can stand and say your name we have a person right
here if you can stand it would be easier for the roaming microphone that would be great may violate the rules by asking for a question. >> please do not. [laughter] to compel china to allow the importation of opium to generate revenue for the crown and as a result of winning the four, hong kong the next 150 years and when they renounced the trafficking of opium unit today they guard the poppy fields in afghanistan and i think all of this is traceable back to the corruption
of the monetary unit which the bank of england of course inflated its currency beyond the amount of gold to increase economic activity in our country is now persuaded to do the same thing in the federal reserve which results in dishonest weights and measures and i would just ask you i have digressed do we not need an honest account to have peac piece of people in the nation's i think the opium war was imposed by the british is one of the major evils i am very grateful my grandfather was one of the first surgeons in china and treated the last emperor and the salon and my grandfathers sister actually wagged her finger in the face of queen victoria and told to clea the qs the same and fought against some
of the most horrendous oppression, they were evil scandals and on the block of the characters of history i don't want to make any bones about it. >> other questions right over here. >> i've noticed that americans over the past decade or so has increasingly rather than think of themselves as servants to anything about them, their country, religion are self-confident but their own views and personalities
dominates external institutions. can you comment on that? >> i accept your comment. freedom can very easily become a good or a bad form of autonomy. i said it was obedience and those were truly free of self-governing but that can easily become an autonomy that becomes arrogant and conceited and so on and that is often the overspill. you look at the western civilization more generally if you look at the last tree i bazr different types of humanism. the dominant 18th century god is dead and then have come of age.