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tv   Labor Secretary Acosta at Center for Strategic and Intl Studies  CSPAN  April 12, 2019 5:30pm-7:34pm EDT

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and that was an incredible gift. >> sunday night at eight eastern on cspan's q&a. >> cspan's life in an event where labor secretary alexandria acosta cortez is about to speak with the international labour organization. the event is commemorating the 85th anniversary joining the belle isle. on cspan2. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]
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[inaudible] [inaudible] >> all things on a friday afternoon. everyone gets extra credit for being here. i will just join the panel and we will kick it off. i want to welcome everybody. i'm so pleased you are all here. [applause] i am guessing this is because i don't know if my bike is working is it working? one of the things i want to start with. what was 1919, that was after
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the soviet revolution. and right after world war i. i think the leaders of the time came together and said whoa. this was multiple cataclysms happening at once, capitalism as we knew we probably needed to look at the rise of labor unions, saying on rival capitalism where people were treated terribly or abused. it was bad or it was mistreated and it can be rise up like the soviet union. there was also a major global clash. there was a major questioning of capitalism in a major questioning of the system. [inaudible] we have a problem and we need to reform capitalism.
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i suspect what is probably happened. we have some challenges where i come together and do this. i think it is interesting that the first meeting in washington, it took us a while, sometimes in the united states it takes is a well to get it right. winston churchill, he also said that the americans will do the right thing after trying everything out. and hav perhaps the case of theo we did everything else about trying it out. i think it is really important to have a leader like we did in the roosevelt administration to say come on folks it is been almost within 15 years of the founding of this institution and we ought to be a part of this. or were going to be at the table, and we might be on the menu. i suspect that is what it probably was. in my right and my framing this right way, is that the right way to think about it? >> you got it right.
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-- once in a while i do. >> you got it right this time. i think the founders of the ilo had in a room horrific experience of the first world war. if you can avoid instability, war then you got the conditions of labor. all of the conditions of labor really matter. in what became of the soviet union. >> is scared the hell out of them. >> why didn't the u.s. get on board? there is no country that did more than the united states for the creation of the national labor organization. as the southern irony that took into a fact for the u.s. to come on board. but i think the record shows that it was not the suspicion of the ilo it was a rather idea of the reaffirmation of the united
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nations. woodrow wilson could not -- >> he tried to make the case and he blew a gasket in the process and then he was not able to finish the job. >> one of the secretaries actually put the thing back on the political agenda in the 1930s. it went to the senate and the sick consult widely and they got it to the senate practically right away. making a distinction that this is national labour organization, we will go there and there was a real distinction i think. and not everybody else but the ilo, the soviet union stated it. >> i love that. [laughter] >> luscious for the television audience, and for frontier, most people know what the international labour
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organization is. let's just briefly explain, what is ilo how is it made up and what you guys do. that is important for having a larger conversation. >> is made up not just of governments, the government and the representatives of employers and workers. 187 members, what do we do, above all else we set the standard, negotiate and supervise them and if you like, these are the rules of the game of the global labour. fundamental rights and much else which i think is perhaps one of the most positive alignments of what the ilo does. >> i'll put on my team american hat and pro- capitalism, is an innocence to say trying to create a fair form of capitalism, is that away for a minute? am i being frame there. >> it talks about you man labour
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and it looks like the level playing field. by the exception of the rules of the game, i think we are accepting that playing field in which international economy can function fairly. >> i like this part of the conversation, the soviet union never joined the ilo? did they join ? >> they did. the same time as the united states. >> they took their sweet time ? >> they did. are you in essence helping government, who do you help? when you help a country, what is it look like? >> it depends on the country. i would say -- it was really just after the first 50 years of the ilo's existence. we got the peace prize and 69 by the way.
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that period of decolonization was when we took on a new responsibility. it was building the capacities newly independent countries to build up from a very low stacking place. the capacities to run the labour markings and do the things that seemed to more industrialized companies. that was an added then mention. >> secretary costa, your predecessor got the united states into the aisle low but for number reasons we stayed in, we never left, we sometimes left but never left ilo. >> you say briefly. [laughter] >> well. >> if i say the words george -- [laughter] >> we stayed and i allow most of the time for 85 years except for little time.
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you have been in this job for a while as secretary of labour, you must have a sense of why the united states -- why should they get all the ilo ? >> we are one of the main supporters of the aisle low and we work in the department of labor on international level work to establish and maintain labour standards. the ilo is one of the main partners. for example, i can think of the top of my head some nations in the middle east, you know the ones i'm talking about where they have major events coming up to include labour standards in the ilo has been a major part in the effort. guy has been with us as to many conferences around the world whether it's g7, g20, labour conferences, and something that we have a high interest in, as you said, a level playing field.
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just this week, we had great news for mexico -- the chamber of deputies has preformed their labour laws. that is pursuant to the upcoming trade agreement. and for the first time the u.s. and ca included a labour provision. it is the strongest labour position in the trade agreement. you are seeing mexico change their labour laws as a result. and why does that matter, that matters because to have trades you start off with a level playing field. the nations need to have similar labour laws so that the trade is not just free but there.
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and so we have a keen interest in supporting efforts to have that level of playing field. supporting efforts to make sure that certain labor standards are met. >> let me add a second dimension, that is as important. you mentioned humane, and from the laws in the u.s. have changed so much since 1919, we have several levels of protections for workers. we have an interest of the human rights perspective in other nations and have those levels of protection. so if you're talking about forced labor, abuse of immigrant labor, if you're talking trafficking, if you are talking so many issues we have a high interest, keen interest in seeing other nations improve and often it is better to have a group like the aisle low common and work with the stations than to have the u.s. work directly.
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so it is great to have him as a partner, guy works very closely with their international division. i really thank you for your work. >> thank you. >> from the same point, one of the things i should say, in response to labor, it not only comes to the ilo and represents interest, you provide a lot of support that we do around the world. >> are we the largest donor to the ilo? >> you have been. i think there are some ahead at the moment. >> were pretty close right? >> in the time i have been around in the aisle low it is been the u.s. that has been in the lead on the fight against child labor. the hundred and 52 million kids working, that is a hundred and 52 million to many. but the beginning of the century there was one third more than that. in the fight against forced labor with the same story. the level of the playing field and doing the right thing.
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>> let me stop on a. minute, i think i pro- capitalist and i think i'm against having people being slaves or traffic, a chocolate that i like, were closing -- i like cheap clothing i just don't necessarily don't want to buy something that has been made with child labor. i think most people, 99.9% would agree with that. so i think it is really important that these types of things happen. i think of it not just as a level playing field for the american worker but just humanity in values and fairness. but spend a minute on the progress. there is still a lot of challenges in the world and i think -- i've been in the development business and he is talking about the problems and other difficulties, but i think
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what you said earlier, double-click about the progress. i think a lot has to do with the kinds of partnerships that you have with the department of labor where you're able to work with them on a technical basis. but you as the aisle low as a trusted partner and can trust to convene her, you've made the progress and how the levels have dropped. how is that happen, 150 minutes is way too many. but it is come down. >> one third by the year 2000. >> it's amazing. we don't talk about the progress that happens in the world. >> the good news there is, i think the aisle low has been a lead in that reduction. in the report that we received in the u.s. above all because we have not learned what works. there was one week begin this, a certain feeling that child labor is the inevitable of poverty and lack of development in our experience shows countries at
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the same level have radically different incidents of child labor so we know what works. we know what we have to do. imagine forced labor, our first instrument against forced labor was in 1930. in 2014 we had to adopt a protocol for that. because there is not a linear disappearance of forced labour in the world. trafficking, and all sorts of vile purposes. we are having to reinvent our actions. to make sure it works. one great example and again, the u.s. has been very close of forced labour in the cotton industry which is made a bit of noise from what i know. >> i was quite mistaken. it is a great story.
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i was an afghan recently to see what we are up to. i think we can say the problem has not disappeared. through monitoring on the ground and serious engagement from parties we have eliminated child labour in the cotton industry, we have extended use of forced labour. >> if i could only add, he mentioned he would not want to buy clothing that was from child forced labour. and i think almost all the audience would join you in that. one of the challenges is, is so complex that you may not know just because it says nike or made in america. you may not know where the material came from, the cotton came from and so the labour international division has made great strides in identifying the chain and having resources
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available to ask others to how individuals about the supply chain issues. ultimately, we need international assistance to monitor that because that changes constantly and you cannot simply monitor it on a domestic perspective. you need to be monitoring where the goods are produced and where they are being manufactured. >> it is a great thing. well remember the tragedy in bangladesh a few years ago. 1100 workers died in the glass factory. that is an entirely new energy and focus on supply change. with the echoes in the air, it was a 21st century triangle. hundred and 46 died there.
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the same principles. it requires the same type of reaction from us. thanks to the international corporation that we are getting we are getting that task. >> i wanted to stay little bit longer on the trafficking issue. in the united states is a bipartisan issue and a lot of the response to trafficking especially in the labour context, is something that falls to both the department of labor international but also the ilo. can you talk a little bit more about trafficking and how your organization deal with it because this is something -- my mother is often a little skeptical of international, i don't want to put her on the spot but i don't think she's alone. i think we are helping to stop trafficking and she said i'm all for that. could you just talk about trafficking in persons. >> sure. international debate with the aisle low with international partners in the nations is where
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this begins. we fund third parties, ngos, that work on the ground because the u.s. cannot enforce outsider borders. but we can work with the nations to enforce those laws and to support the ngos that are working to prevent this. with the department of justice has forces and strong laws that prosecute. you are seeing right now on the border just south of here, and major issue where individuals are being trafficked in. i was talking with officials from dhs and they said they are seeing the same child being brought in again and again, and again. they are sent back and coming in with other individuals because of the issues that are now happening at the border.
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humanitarian crisis, it is a crisis that needs to be addressed. whether it's at the border, domestically through law enforcement, whether international level working with ngos, this is something that is being addressed and needs to continue to be addressed and is not just humanitarian issue but a national security issue. >> a restricted asked audience because we have a good conversation . . . >> of equally unpleasant of
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what they can face. but with secretary acosta it is having the aspects of this of the immigration aspect but also the labor policy part as well. so in addition to the alliances and the coalition of the ngos we need this across government approach. so to make sure we work hand-in-hand with extremely complex issues. >> talking about the progress which ten years ahead with great organizations i consider effective can you imagine going from 150 million too
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much lower levels? >> i said we know what works. we know it. the idea to do something inevitable is wrong. it is about physical will and funding and resource and mobilization. >> so if we look forward ten years we see a few trends that will move the ball forward to reduce child labor. first we see technology that makes us more aware. so increasingly we know not just where you purchased it but the material comes from and manufactured. we make the supply chain more accountable to trace that supply chain.
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incorporation say if that includes child labor we will not purchase from that particular nation. second we are seeing new awareness at an international level that is very focused and third like you see with the trade discussions. and that means the certain labor standards across the board to be a prerequisite. and with more trade and homogenate you cannot have that global growth with that
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certain understanding and the standards for the workforce. >> and this is critical. if they do want to get it right. unwittingly and then to know the entire supply chain to hold businesses accountable. >> so i heard the speakers say if you are going to be naked you better be buff. [laughter] so given the source of things you better have your house in order.
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with those trade agreements. >> and leading into that. twenty-five years on from the wto should not be part of it. and then put that part of the story on but between 75 and 80 percent what is negotiated by laterally or regionally there is an interesting phenomenon taking place. we have no mandate to encourage or discourage but where they decide to insert them with the fashioning of such agreements.
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and with my recent visit to mexico i talked to the secretary many times to be extremely optimistic. if you look at that chapter it is the most comprehensive and those standards from the first paragraph to the last for what is acceptable international behavior and goes back but being in mexico that the government has assumed responsibility to recognize the convention to reflect to make the changes that need to be made. this could be of labor justice about getting transparency and
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collective bargaining and all the abuses that we know have existed in industrial nations is not the smallest issue that the mexicans have depressed wages to be artificially low. so we are helping. throughout mexico city in this process to make sure that the terms of that labor chapter becomes a reality. >> and not only did he say it is the most comprehensive we have seen but compared to nafta that isn't at all. so not only is this the most comprehensive but the mean agreement did not have this
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chapter for that agreement. so it is night and day and to portray this otherwise it is important because it levels the playing field to where it was before and certainly with the trade agreements going forward we hope to see to support the importance of those chapters and those agreements and certainly so to reference the standards by the third party. >> what is different today my interest in the mexican government think this is good for them. it's not something they have to comply with it is a preconditio precondition.
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>> so this isn't a close one. >> and that will reflect the public that we now see with the government of mexico. >> now i have another topic that i have to discuss. you had your anniversary and convened a high-level panel which gave a fabulous report i would like you to talk about the report and also there are lots of things whether robots or jobs but it is very important to hear from you what about giving free money
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and doing the work? we have had this discussion. >> so it is the universal basic income. >> doing my reading in the from the 1930s to give all pensioners money it was crazy stuff. there is a number of things that i think but the first it is extraordinarily expensive. >> and you are not right-wing. >> look at me. [laughter] you are on the right-hand side right now but this is very expensive. >> i don't think it is efficient. doesn't give money to those
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most in need but it feels a lot like giving up on work anyone who is the future of work if you feel unable to have those conditions what work could do that 700 years or more that is the basis of our income. >> so we had the podcast interview talk about what freud said. >> work is individuals connection to reality. think if we make our money in the labor market it just those conditions but the isolation so that is part of the cycle just a global commission report it is impossible to go to future work and those
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opportunities. we argue for the future of work to invest in people's capacity, noting to secretary acosta and we argue for lifelong learning that has to be the mainstay of the future of work. but education will not be enough because the world is changing too quickly. >> i think a lot of people are reading things in the newspaper and we think are losing our jobs to robots. >> we don't look at the headlines. the us, the economy is at a
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multi- decade high it is interesting i had an article earlier this week that created a statistic to compare the number of individuals voluntarily doing their job to take on a third job with those that were laid off are losing their jobs because of these issues and it pointed out the ratio of people voluntarily to take on another job versus those laid off is at an all-time high. so they started to track this information. i say that because sometimes the layoff takes the headline and doesn't talk about all of these new opportunities. so i think we should look at that opportunity because the number of people that are quitting are for a different or better job and that is also
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higher than it has been in decades. so i say that because it is important to a panel like this inevitably somebody brings up the future of work should we be worried of robots? and it is important in a setting that is a little more thoughtful to take a step back. when the factory was invented individuals have been having this discussion every time there is a change people say should people be worried? now we have assembly lines , now we have factories. people will lose their jobs. now that has been invented of what has always happened every single time i do agree a
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little bit how education needs to change but it means new and better opportunities. i was touring the factory floor at a major automotive facility. i have workers there and that level that the machines help them do their job they don't have to put the same stress on the body with that repetitive motion. so things are safer. individuals are more productive. so what is growth? gdp growth is simple. how many more people we have and how much more productive are those individuals? so growth per person is that we should focus on, how much are we growing as a nation per
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person? are we becoming more productive? are we investing more in technology? is each one of us able to do more and produce more and make more money because of productivity? in the long run increased wages equal increased productivity. so now what we see changes happening faster. for those individuals that is scary because you think can i keep up do i have the right skills? in one area we haven't seen change nearly as quickly as we should his education. if we were to talk to our great great great grandmother , they would be educated much the same way we are today.
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we still have a classroom, an instructor in the front, lectur front, lecture, there are all these concepts out there. con academy no means an endorsement because there are number of great products but that concept teaches online for free any number of topics. there was a classroom where they learn at home and come back in small groups per guy was talking to someone that was sending their children to a school that teaches 24 languages. how do they do this? they use an online learning tool at home to learn the language lesson then they engage grandparents during the day to come in and converse so the students can do one-on-one
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to spend half an hour or 45 minutes three times a week talking to someone in their native language. what does it mean for grandparents to teach that to a young person? so we experiment with all these types of education but i don't think that we are. so the traditional model is you learn and you work. so now you are done with school. but as we see things change, i would advocate we need to think of working and learning as a simultaneous process doesn't have to be college? i will learn some skills and work and keep learning so as technology in the workplace changes, we will have a modern skill set through credentials
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that may not include a degree. so one last point we have apprenticeships at the department of labor and in the last two years we have had 500 around the nation these are opportunities where people are learning through their employer and partnerships and educational institutions. with 65000. how many college programs can say when you are done almost guaranteed employment with a starting salary on average of 70000? this is what we need to talk
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about as a nation. we have a perception. >> i love that you said that to talk to the university president to go talk to the for your president and said no you are not i new line talking to she said no you're not you're talking to the sixth year president we don't measure rates in four years anymore now they are six years. and for a lot of folks listening that is huge. it is now a six year degree because the time to graduation and the time it takes for students to graduate have slipped because they don't see a degree as a path to what they are looking for. that may not be the case for some in the audience but that
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is just fact. so we are not taking anything away from that. so should they have access to skills training? if they could get available for coding classes or an american who wants to code do they have the opportunity to do that now? later they could get a degree but we advocate only one path in the system and one last thing are we judging individuals with that type of credential that they hold by whether or not for with their
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career? that is an important question but it is something we need to talk about because in my home state of florida it was 60 percent. is that the best path for 100 percent? 60 percent are graduating. especially as we see so much change with the stackable credentials we are learning and working and then the next level and the beauty of that system is with stackable credentials.
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>> we have to end the conversation here. so very quickly, don't lift that. it is too heavy. [laughter] and then to find a suitable place which is simply a recognition with the department of labor that everybody have played such an important role to the organization. >> [applause]
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[inaudible conversations]
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[inaudible conversations] . >> and then for a discussion and that relationship.
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>> and the guy in the middle? >> welcome. as a senior fellow but then to the history men to talk about
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what inspired you to write this book. >> first of all but then to give you more. and it is my favorite topic so in the united states the driving force and with child labor the national unemployment insurance and too often accomplish the hostile
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congress. i gradually came to know slowly. i was reporter at the washington post for 20 years. and researching workplace fires. we had a really terrible fire in north carolina in 1983. and then to research the history and how to prevent them. so did i know a young social worker with the fire of 1911? and to reduce workplace death?
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and then that commission then to craft that legislation in this building so if a fire breaks out you know where to run so these are all the things they learned so then she was joined by daniel who is president of the american federation of labor. then there was a growing sense the fear of communism inspired the growth. but it was possible to make the world a better place for everybody.
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and what we found where the wages were lower in the conditions were worse but life was better. but it isn't just done out of a sense of fear just out of possibility not just in the united states and it's clear with that fascination of labor to be an early supporter of that organization joined in that effort one of the first american representatives so it is ironic the international
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labor organization and with that young official and that was the first exposure and world war i was very gray and isolationism and active observers. and then frances perkins was secretary of labor and one of the first acts was to orchestrate the united states into the iol.
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and then to push it through hoping nobody would notice. but by then the deed was done. it was very helpful that the united states came in because the guy lol and the repudiated labor and they withdrew. and you have that entry. and then to grow uncomfortable
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and then by 1940 where were they go? and then to talk about to take those officials to safety and then they go across europe by car or bus or train and to be transported across the atlantic ocean. and to those that experience that trip and it really was a terrifying experience they did not know if they would live or die. but to house that would be a very nice location but to lend
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that political support and with that intervention but otherwise the ilo would not have survived world war ii or the league of nations. but two important conferences held here in the united states and one may of 1944 in philadelphia and that philadelphia declaration and that is everywhere. and then when the war was over and those that had survived.
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and then to have a standing ovation. and we can ask ourselves today, today, what the ilo have survived? [applause] >> a wonderful lady very hard-working with that new deal legislation. she was a secretary of labor during the great depression so many more people were employed
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to be happy that they worked more than one job to be a huge believer of the 40 hour workweek. so sometimes you need. everest to recover. and then be would have so many people globally who have to work. multiple jobs. >> and then to turn it to you. with 62 million for immunity. so how do you empower outside labor protection or to be a
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part of the decent work agenda? >> absolutely. first of all it played a part in the global architecture that people are included. and even of the 1998 set of principles that all workers have universal rights. so there are many of the labor law and especially with domestic workers. and of the delegation from the united states from around the world they came together and that was a global standard
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leading to worker organizing. today we say domestic workers with a campaign in 2011 and now there will be movements here and then without political structure to bring together workers from around the world. to show how they play a role and what are the standards we need today? it is a protected. but there are tools. and then to help them build power. with a domestic worker.
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that is what is so powerful. and the right to work free from discrimination and child labor. migrant worker and domestic all with universal rates. >> and with the platform economies. >> from the usaid perspective how do you see the achievement of the iol one --dash ilo relationship from the employer point of view? >> to say i am secretary. and with the ilo and the united states between 1950 in
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the middle of 1980 and that was a difficult climate. so we had this antipathy with the any non- - - amazing standard and second and in the reagan administration, a formula was worked out but then they set up to go forward. and 2001 for the first time
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and with those substantive areas. and with the forced labor standards. and it is important. and that consultation convention. it was a difficult road. you cannot underestimate the strength. so think about the achievements i have to remember it isn't so good of the history. so i can find credit for all
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of the good things. i would not start with the declaration of philadelphia. and the conclusion of world war ii when you have that declaration, above all else , is fundamental and then you have to look at the 1998 declaration. by the way of the first participation. so over time and that 1998
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declaration so with the us employer side they would say this is our idea. and the fear of the social clause. and there was a very long process that word resulted in a discussion. and then to come back to this with that strategy that you rarely see that there is one way and the other things i would mention through the clinton administration and
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actually deborah greenfield and the workers representative. but then something that i'm personally proud of it in 2014 with the forced labor protocol which isn't a us citizen initiative but the push employers to say you cannot be against this. and with that human trafficking in that context?
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and then to get these countries to ratify. and those are the things that would mention. and to talk about the feature of those institutions. and then to mention it gets a little harder. hard you see the future of the ilo? >> if you allow me to predicate i can confirm with a have said. and then who would be surprised about that? that this wonderful book there are two books you have to read
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and frances perkins. but to you understand a lot for co. what about the future? and with that organization and that is one reason. and it is a much more resilient beast but it is not a word that exist in america. [laughter] if you put that graphic up there. >> and then with social justice it is instinctive of human nature.
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and then i had to have fan - - frances perkins but look to the future. and then i hear these precise and robust predictions that they will just be destroyed. and the answer to that is not about technology. and the lesson of history is that they transformed the world of work.
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and with those external circumstances, we designe designed, conscious because a lot of this was made up as we were going along. that if you give me the luxur luxury, one of the greatest achievements that one said roosevelt should never have that labor dispute. he is a lousy mediator. and then with his own ideas. and then the second thing is to be proud what she achieved and then she says one of the
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things you never could do was universal healthcare in the united states. but she was right. [laughter] >> i want to come back to the future of unions and an end to talk about technology and then the platform economy and then that technology is something they always have to deal with since the beginning of time dealing with business colleagues and technology and what that looks like so
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looking at the robotics and future of work so what should work look like in the future so that has been a to be four years. so that is an important debate. and to save for organizing and collective action and in the united states to recently have major mobilization but if you look closely what they are asking for it wasn't the decision and bargaining for the common good and public education and small class sizes.
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and so for the common good and the question around technology is who will benefit from that technology? we haven't decided. let's not get put off by artificial intelligence and robots. so perhaps it will be put into service to benefit workers to make sure they work with dignity. and to shift the balance. and maybe with more leisure time. and with the word social dialogue and what happens with
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technology. and with that hotel union here in the united states to sit down with a major hotel chain to say that bargain in their contract the clause is anytime you technology is introduced into the workplace, workers have a 30 day period to talk about it with management and think of the impact on workers and what we need to think about. that's the way we should be thinking about technology. that can be empowering. to have a panic button or a new form of technology. and add pivotal time to be very bright for worker empowerment to bring more dignity to workers. right now we could either a
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exacerbated more workers have voice so we are at a pivotal moment. and whose benefit that would serve. >> so how employers see this with the future of work. >> i would like to take the angle with some boring and difficult issues. at a living wage how does that fit? and it is still here today.
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these are not easy issues. and it may not be adequate. and then just have that contract labor. every year there is the ilo conference every year there are two governing bodies. it is all the same but the meeting was essentially four weeks. now it is basically a 100-yard dash it is more ceremonial. you have one week to negotiate. and these are the kinds of issues to that and that's why
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we have shorter meetings and how much time can i be a way? and how it uses the technology we are all worried about that maybe you don't on certain issues and use technology to increase that cooperation of understanding when you have that hard discussion. so it is the process change
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the issues are no longer. but what i do think in the development of what happens next of that implementation just in the beginning there will be many many chapters for the central issues. and these are issues of which and with that impact and we have to use technology.
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do you see them incorporating like new members? with the ngo community? and that comes up a lot that the changes structure, and with those methods and this of what we have all spoken is a given. you are right. we know trade union membership has been under pressure and we also know that not all of business of business organization but yet clearly in my mind at least that
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history would support this in this regard but and the way in which we deal with those labor issues. if we would discard that we would be making a mistake. so in that arena with the three actors that is unaffected about what is said and done and the ilo in the constituents to understand very well that we need to be attentive and work with our allies and in that manner?
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and then to have a adoption of the declaration to find a balance with unfinished business there is a lot of unfinished business and with that transformative work of the new technologies but 1919 of the constitution but we have not cracked that. maximum hours of work. and as a maximum bed in objective for maximum working hours. that is very difficult for when we are working or not working. and i am hopeful is that with
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two.7 million people die every year. mostly through disease. but it is the unfinished business. and that which is unfinished smart enough and brave enough and courageous enough. and courageous enough. . . . . was reporter at the washington post when they went
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to china for conference about work place condition. it was one of many places, people go all over the world to talk about what is happening. many contracted stars. what happened is, they begin to be some smaller reports that the disease, but the chinese clampdown information. but the fed said they put out a big warning signal to the whole rest of the world. there was a very serious nude disease afoot. they mobilized, highlighted it and put out bulletins for news reporters around the world about what had happened to paca and it served to mobilize the health system in every country around the world. and i really do believe, having been there and covered it at the
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time that the fact that the ilo official was there and they were deeply attuned to health and safety issues that they immediately recognized it as a workplace born illness and they served to tell people around the world. >> we started with frances perkins, i want to come back to her. i want to ask you, how many years have you research this book? >> probably for ten years. >> you know her pretty well. [laughter] >> pretty well. >> what would francis think about the iol today. >> i think she would be very pleased of all the things that it is done and all the things that have brought it. it was a narrow membership in
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the united states played some role but the i ll has been and i think she would be thrilled with that. i think she would notice. the same problems. in every single panelist has alluded to the universality of the problem that we confront as humans i species and how to keep making the world a better place and the global population grow growth. >> want to have a little bit of time for the audience too post questions. we have mike' microphones and ie are any questions feature hand and state your name and your
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affiliation. >> marina? >> hello and thank you. my name is marina colby and i did not want to be the first person but here i go. [laughter] i'm currently working at the u.s. department of labor of child labour, and human trafficking. and i'm also pleased to say that i used to work at the ilo office of the united states. from that perspective i have a question. i did bring my book and hopefully i can get an autograph. [laughter] frances perkins, she was definitely a master of thinking and working politically. and it's clear and it comes in very clear in your book. but she is also a social reformer of her time. in looking back, she was also
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benefiting from the other social reformers of her area like grace abbott who i believe was the first woman to be nominated for the cabinet position. and francis was the first to be selected for that type of position. but grace abbott worked at the department of labor's children's bureau prior to francis even coming to washington yet remained during roosevelt administration. i would love to hear a little reflection of the role of women during that time especially women social reformers. and also the ilo. >> i want to ask a similar question. did she have any work? >> the second question is easier. she had no worklife now. she loves to work. i think we have been seeing this, she spent a lot of time outside catonsville. even in the night, late at night
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she was working on drafting new laws that could be passed and going downstairs in the early morning hours. and she was the mother. she was beyond busy. she was a wonderful, human, female chain that led to frances perkins. and not just in the united states. the model first started in england. it starts at trendy hall. in the method of taking people who had a lot of opportunities to places where they have fewer life opportunities and letting them see it for itself is huge. and living in a semi- communal arrangement where people live together while they do workplacl justice issues together.
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it was built on 20 hall, and there was a generation of women that led into each other. and there were as parallel movements at the same time. you also have the suffrage movement. so you have social justice reformers for both republican and democrat. it's across partisan and you have suffrage who are also operating across partisan lines. there republican and democrat that find ways to work together through a lifetime. and what they learned was from both areas was women learning to speak out. women learning to have a public voice. frances perkins learned how to be a social worker. she learned how to have a public voice to the suffrage movement. yes indeed all these things played out. but it also meant you have a really wide bipartisan army that you could mobilize through your issues. outside a perfect enter party
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lines. the success was she could invigorate an army of republican women around the world -- i mean around the united states. >> i want to mention also margaret, the first woman secretary of labour was in the uk. she was also a big supporter of the international labour organization. and they were friends. this is not just a network in the united states. this is an international network. >> the gentleman here. >> richard coleman, cbp retired. the great recession 2007, 2009 a lot of people lost their jobs. factories that did survive, in fact replaced workers with machines. they have the option to rehire people and kept the machines.
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breweries are run by three or four people entire breweries. lawyers have been replaced by software. the issue of people will always adapt, always create is a little bit of a fairytale i think. manufacturing and agriculture are being done and will be done by machines and more people are populating the planet. the issue of where is the work going to come from, what kind of work is there going to be is pretty urgent. with artificial intelligence the machines of yesterday are stupid compared to the machines of today. in their educating themselves to be smarter tomorrow. the competition from the machine is against the human labour force at least manually. what is the prospect for intervention of some kind that is going to create a volume of work that humans are going to
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need? >> could i take a shot at this? >> yeah. >> first of all, you're a baby boomer, i'm a baby boomer and out of the workforce. there is more people leaving the workforce than ever before. in fact, when i was practicing law i had an economic think tank on the side and we studied the question of the labour shortage in the country. to some extent whether our numbers were right or wrong, the fact of the matter is, the replacement that you are talking about is important but right now employers cannot get the labour shortages. all over the country, all kinds of industries. so this is where the scaling discussion is absolutely
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imperative. how do you align work in the prospect of change so that when you have these dislocations there is a pathway to going back to work? i have two children. i had a discussion with them in high school. i said your dad has only had four different jobs in his lifetime. you're going to have 20. the response, dad we know that. the millennial view is different than our generation. and so that is one of the challenges that the ilo has in the government has, how do you deal with a mix of expectations. to accommodate the changes that will inevitably take place in the workplace? >> thank you. >> yeah i think it goes back do we have in this country, you are
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right these transitions. whether it's through trade, loss of job, other countries or models. we have countries, the germans were just visiting and we are doing exchanges with them. they created innovation laws to figure out what policies we need. here in our country there's a lot we can be doing. you are correct, a lot of people have not seen our country step up with the appropriate policies to make the needed transition and make the education lead to work. the other piece i want to connect, i was loving the women's labour history appear. loving it. [laughter] but the flipside of that, where are the jobs being created. i think people get lost again in the robots and thinking about what is the area of work we need to be lifting up. the career economy is booming. that is the future, many of those people are women, many migrant women, nonwhite women in
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this country. we need to be lifting those go s up, making sure those jobs are jobs with dignity. that is our future. that is the aspiration that the iol has in it doesn't matter what part of the economy are in, whether you're in the manufacturing or care economy, should all have work with dignity that has rights and protection. we are not there yet. you are absolutely right. we have eight economy that has a movement that is bringing voice to those women workers which is really important when you're trying to build decent work. but we're not there yet and we need a whole set of policies that indeed make sure that workers who are displaced, whether technology or changes due to climate change in this country. what are the policies. workers need to know that they are going to have the protection to get retrained and there will be investment in their communities to get decent jobs.
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not jobs that go from good high paying union manufacturing jobs to one with no vacation, no healthcare protection, and low wages. that is not the transitions this country needs or any country. that is again going back to the aspiration, the ilo has always had for workers, we need to continue to have the aspirations for good work whether it's a care economy or workers who are being dislocated because of technology. >> other industries that we looked at were travel and tourism. it's a growing industry. creative industries like those types of industries. many services -- you have higher and food production that can also employ people. not just harvesting. there are industries that are growing renewables. the green economy will be another. this is how you retrain other
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regeneration's to do different things. so it's a different type of education and training. >> asked the lady up front. >> thank you. i am the ceo and founder of a technology company. the reason -- i wanted to say artificial intelligence is a long way away. it is not here. it is mostly analytics accuracy. but i want to ask a question to you specifically. technology and loss of innovation is happening so fast that we can't seem to place the skill set to match that speed. it is an acceleration. not just the speed. there is a problem there in terms of mismatched. example, our company started out global from the get-go. we cannot find a skill set in one location.
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guys in uk, russia, here, et cetera. i literally have people, we are a small company. we have an issue of how do you actually acquire these individuals to do the skill set not necessarily to be productive and grow and employ more and more people. the other aspect, how do you make sure that that income is consistent in terms of pay. i have to look back at my techworld for 30 years that i've worked. and i saw people tell and others that said i know i have global employment and i know that if i have an engineer that works in india, and an engineer that works in russia and an engineer that works here and there doing the same job, they had to have the exact same pay wage, exact same benefits, for that particular job. but what i can do as a differentiator is make the change based on the buying power in that particular economy. so what is happening in terms of consistency of that type of
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behavior of all industries across all jobs? >> her question but. >> from all the points, it's very important point to me. i think it is always true today more than ever that periods have accelerated quite profound change. realities on the grounds get ahead of our capacity to legislate, regulate. it is happened every time in history and it is happening now. true skills and it is also true of capacity to adjust the institutions that we built up to govern our labour markets to new ways of working. what i think, perhaps what is
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extinct about this, i don't know if you subscribe to the phrase, not just about the quantity of work that is being created and destroyed. this creative destruction equation. as the capacity of technology the community now to absolutely transform the way work is carried out. you've given the description of how that is the case. quite frankly, our concepts and ideas, organizations and institutions do fit the realities and i think that is the challenge of anything else. you talk about skills and the question i would want to put back to that type of question is what is the enterprise's response of skill formation ? i often here, entrepreneurs cannot find the skills. they're not out there. in the blame between inverted is the educational systems are doing the right thing. i have always thought also, the employer has a certain part of the responsibility and skill formation. this conversation is taking us towards after the initial kickoff i don't think we are
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moving a near earth, were over the disappearance of work scenario, i don't believe we should believe we are moving towards it. of chronic scarcity. i don't see any or see why that should be the case. but there will be a massive transition of people moving from this place to that place, rescaling and a big policy agenda. we need to take this as a policy discussion, not isolated discussion about what technology is going to do to us. and how will we manage all this and i look at this as a project in the future. we need to think about what that will be like. that is. >> i will take two more questions. otherwise we will be violating convention -- the number one convention. >> i have a few others. [laughter] >> and a few others.
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the lady appeared. in the lady in the back. >> thank you. thank you for your presentation. i margaret cope and i'm an independent consultant. when you talk about skill skillr and we look at equality of opportunity for people. if we all have a program that has enabled them to match skills with what is needed in their country, called national service. they have gone -- cybersecurity area, they have gone from non- distinct to being one of the top five globally. i was wondering is it time to look at ways for our young people to get a scale after high school or after college and also
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serve their country, gets physic engagement life skills. to prepare them for the future of work? >> let's take the second question. >> hi. i'm kate schaefer and ima currently getting my masters in education. >> i know that francis perkins was inspired to go about her life's work and i mentioned the high number of deaths related to workplace issues earlier today. i want to know about workplace compliance certification. i know a lot of recent factories that were already workplace compliant certified. i want to know what do you think that whoever was the answer, the next steps and work safety and
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as we as citizens and countries and governments can do to ensure the working conditions are guaranteed? >> first question on the national services in the second question on altercation. he wants to go. >> i'll take the first one. i think people in countries after -- societies will have to make up their minds of these types of services if it's something they want to see. francis pataki precisely in these terms. some people see this as a possible story and others may not. but what i think is quite clear is that we do have to do a great deal better than current dispositions allow us. not just a question i was maki making, education to work
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whatsoever transition. that hurdle is one of many young people fall today. but that hurdle is going to come back come back back temperature working lives. that is the case for lifelong learning that he was making early on. we all know that we need lifelong learning and what we don't have is how to be financed. i'm talking about the united states and in general. we don't have delivery systems that would make lifelong learning accessible and equally accessible to people regardless of their place in labour forces right now. i'll leave the second one for my colleague. >> i wanted -- the first question, we haven't mentioned in patricia program. it is part of one of the most things that you can do. we've been talking about petition programs or keys. there is no better way to become
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a great electrician with a good pay, union and benefits then going for a union apprenticeship program. i heard the secretary say that there's a commitment to increase support for apprenticeship programs. >> we have great partnership with her. partners to good jobs. as you may know, this is a big debate that we have been having over the years. my perspective is the collapse that was mentioned earlier is a great example. it was a place where workers knew they were. they know best, you don't know somebody parachuting into be
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certified. to your point we had an industry that was created, people parachuting in the work from there, checkboxes, got paid. certification. it was a system that was actually not doing justice to addressing workplace safety issues. the labour movement because our members and partners of other countries have told us that that day it was a non- union eyes group of workers, they came out of the building, said were scared, we are creaking, and you see the pictures that they had industrial factory that was not an appropriate building. in the management side, it was mostly women workers, go back in or you will not get your $35 a month pay. i tell a story because from there we have a transfer rate of conversation about what needs to happen in workplace safety. you absolutely need workers voice, workers representation, workers know best what's happening. they know there's a crack, something, fumes, getting sick, they are there day in and day out. you need workers to feel empowered to speak out about that and there will be retaliation. that is the first thing.
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the labour movement has really said that it is time to move away from voluntary programs of the nature that you highlighted. where people parachuting in and check out boxes and if it looks like there is a fire escape entered fix it when you have a chance. to say no, actually this needs to not be voluntary but mandatory. then we worked to create alternative models and that has been an ongoing debate with our business colleagues. but we have actually moved, despite the disagreements and long hours in rooms, we have moved the ball with various different initiatives. the labour movement perspective is to deal with the way global supply chains are organized in worker safety you need mandatory programs to address that. >> we really don't have time to triage.
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[laughter] i would say that having spent the last ten years and working for a large multinational company, it had a social compliance program that would audit for health and safety and other factors. what we found is that most countries actually have the right laws. they have requirements, health and safety requirements. but the country does not enforce them. it ends up that the company is the enforcer of last resort really. so, there is a lot of collective goodwill that has to happen here. yes the problem is a supply chain problem but is also a level of development problem for those workers that are in the national environment. in the problem with health and safety at the end of the day is
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there is no foolproof antidote that will assure there will be no place. but we have to start and enforce what is already in place. and then while we are doing that we build the rest of the pieces that we need. >> thank you everyone. thank you for our distinguished panel. [applause] there is -- if you can't get enough of i'll low. [laughter] you could talk a little bit more over the reception over there and thank you for coming. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]
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[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> on american history tv saturday at 8:00 p.m. eastern on lectures and history the legal history of abortion in the united states. sunday at 4:30 p.m. space scientist recalls his work on the apollo mission. at eight on the presidency a discussion on the presidents retreat. this weekend on american history tv on c-span3. >> we are back with congressman republican of florida the president says he wants a tougher direction of border security. do you agree? >> i think we do t need to


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