tv Jesse Jarnow Tim Mohr and Imani Perry CSPAN April 20, 2019 6:00am-7:11am EDT
i am your moderator for the next hour. today's panel with the growth rate to organize the social movements past and present then there will be book sales following q&a now we will introduce our author. jesse that is the author and a regular contributor posting the weekly show on the independent radio station. wasn't that a time is extensively researched as an accomplished portrait to reverberate with the mastery and everyone's interest please
welcome jesse. [applause] tim moore is author burning down the house award-winning collaborator and has written for the new york times book review and the new york magazine and at playboy the new york times book review says burning down the house is a riveting and inspiring history of the struggle in east germany to chronicle the cinematic detail and commitment required as he navigated constant police reaction. [applause] the author of looking for a lorraine and three other books
the professor of african-american studies at princeton and in the star review to provide the exhortation to explain how they captured a cultural held by emotional ties is work for any readers interested since opposing black consciousness and we highly recommend it. [applause] thank you for being here. we will start off talking about the books but also talking a bit about the process telling the stories of your engagement.
>> my book is called wasn't that a time? the weavers who were a top ten pop band before the communist affiliations caught up with them and they were blacklisted and forced to break up and then reforming a few years after that with a profound influence on the folk revival of the sixties and also my first favorite childhood and my mom played around the house the first to name all four band members and knew about them. after i finished writing my previous book i started to think about them again and what drew me to them.
and the 2016 election happened then they seemed way more relevant than they were even a few weeks earlier. it's corny there are string arrangements and foreign sections trying to get across to those radio audiences and it did. with a series of top ten hits but it's hard to call the music itself controversial but they had very strong political backgrounds involved in the wall this campaign and 48, involved in the outgrowth of the labor movement so the american political needle started to tip to the right if
there ever had been there really wasn't a market for that kind of music and they were making pop music so to take those beliefs to go out into the world and to communicate to their audience and one of the things fascinates me deeply with the other two books i have written is the idea of music as a technology that is always changing because political music will function differently from political music five or ten years later in every era socially conscious musicians have to reinvest themselves and figure
ou what they try to communicate and the platform to do that. and what fascinates me even more is what it is done unconsciously that people join musical movements without differentiating between the two that is very much the case with the believers and that is what fascinated me this music we now perceived of as corny but how now seem so innocent could cause people to get called up before government committees to be accused of creating these songs. and also in the 19 fifties which is a decade i did not know a lot about digging into
this for greg up in the eighties my parents grew up in the sixties and fifties presented as a drab and boring black and white. where people were oppressed but not much happened culturally. so my process is to try to find the details in that era to make them see current in the weavers were that a lot of things were effortlessly contemporary with the positions that they held or talking about social justice or class issues a lot of them you could hear talk to panels like this so attention to be ise
still very much part of society that navigating the idea of pop music. >> we are force-fed a narrative that kids wanted levi's and hamburgers and i was always skeptical of the narrative but i had no hard evidence and then they moved to berlin. that was 19822 years after unification growing up in the eighties as well i was aware i
didn't like the way the wind was blowing and i was offered a job for one semester at the university and i took it. if there was going to be a mythological reason then it would happen at that time then also i didn't speak german back then i thought germany and oktoberfest were the same thing. [laughter] so i would get on a plane and that was a great way to [laughter] instead i landed in the stereotypical east block high-rise with a block next to a dozen more right next to the east berlin zoo and it was at
the height of the skinhead attacks so the only time i ever woke up from a dream screaming was shortly after i arrived because i dreamt we were attacked by skinheads i do not know the word for help in germa german. [laughter] but so it was grim beginnings to the trip but i stumbled upon the nightlife scene that was starting to explode i decided to stay and end up working as a dj so everything that was happening at that time was set up by a former east german punk but in particular with the guy was the guitarist and eventually showed me what he kept stashed during the dictatorship with snapshots of him and his
friends. and it put off a lightbulb in my head but i was determined to tell that story eventually. fast-forward until 2008 spending some time in new york as a magazine editor i went back to research in earnest the first big surprise the secret police i couldn't believe how paranoid they were from a western perspective it's difficult to understand why they are paranoid about teenagers with bad haircuts but they had to keep youth on the path in one direction and the music was pushing them off that path and later i can get
into because it was very distinct but close to the ten years it took to research the book it went from a interesting story to one that i had connections to and it transformed i was looking at a file but then you slip on the news to see militarized american police breaking up the pipeline protest or with the surveillance system using to crack down then here comes the snowden revelation so it became a relevant story while i was working on the piece. >> how many people are
familiar with the song? my book is a cultural history generally known as the national negro him and the black national anthem by the seventies. started to embark on the project and i found myself surprised there had not been a book about the song there was one but it was theoretical and academic and not about the cultural life. it was and is the most cherished song a black american life. so then to what i realized in conversation with who
said i you sure this isn't an article? because how you tell the history of the song with the composer and the author? two brothers living in jacksonville florida which is a city under the yoke of jim crow and cosmopolitan even with jim crow with the most aggressive forms of racism also extraordinary flourishing schools are created so with they call the promise of reconstruction but also the
incredible blossoming. so part of this led me that i understood they did not get the context why the song was important and i began to build an archive and where they have their papers with 27 odd documents i created an archive that was 27000 from the black cultural institutions so i looked at school programs and curriculum, short stories and what emerged is it was a song associated with socialization of children as figures who
have a noble history and a sense of responsibility to the larger community and also either a daily or weekly practice of people staying to gather talking about in north carolina they would stand on the front porch every day when school began with hope and nd highly connected to negro history week from negro history month so with that political significance of the song that
wasn't a coincidence that first started in 1960 because historically they had celebrated every day multiple times a day and then teaching young people so to tell the story of civic and political institutions and what i describe black formalism which is a term that i use that is different with respectability which is not as the ideology
that are an essential part of the black southern culture and speaking for myself but also academia there is a lot of amazing work but not that much on black formal one - - formal culture but during the school week or on sunday morning. the last thing i will say is one of the things that is really interesting this is the song people used across the political spectrum associated with communist party activism protest until the sixties like
we shall overcome and then comes back with black power so it is resilience but also flexibility to identify the struggles that is the most interesting. [applause] so the question about music may speak to this idea each of the books that you have written for this panel is the way we assemble music and what
those associations might do as the habits of assembling and the ways that those happen with the time. you are writing about and to see them continue currently? >> i think of music as a community organizing tool that can sed deliberately to bring people together. like every sunday at church which is the first piece of music that just the idea to come together around that as a temple over a long period of
time that time aspect is important. socially conscious music is boiled down to protest music which is a disservice to the power of music which is over the long-term not just one that will get you out. and into the community when they raise their voices together. that fits together in different ways. >> sparked by that western phenomenon you can pick up western radio but on that society cousin economic
conditions those conditions didn't exist and then with the schools and apprenticeship and a place to have no interest in. and to make it into a phenomenon. and that they armed themselves y that their game changing role to feel the resolve and the power of the secret police and those that ran the experiment. more than any other activist groups in the eighties.
the sixties and then the revival on the seventies but related to what you are asking is important as that the invitational? mlk junior speeches at the darkest movement so even in the era to go back to this older song with the residents of the community but after king is murdered and ran to franklin park to take down the us flag and on that protest
protest of white supremacists that they were singing this little light of mine for the hatred that was coming off of the other side. that song -- the lyrics in the present moment and also the fact that it speaks to the lineage of protests and community and solidaty. there is a lot writing under them as well. >> you mentioned the people songbook which published pretty early which is by the communist parties in the struggle of black people in the united states. >> i actually want to follow because you write that for many new musicians that politics were nearly invisible and despite the politics of those musicians and even quoting one of the musicians saying that you cannot confuse your image with the politics. >> that isn specifically is,
do you believe it's important or possible to separate your musical image or your music from your politics? >> i don't think anything is true universally for every single musician. the president said that quote is one of the members of the beach boys. it's a band that i would sometimes like to stop. there politics and music very much. it depends on the musician and the politics. i think some people can successfully do that but that's not the music i'm interested in engaging in all the time. >> okay, to that .1 of the reasons it was seen as so problematic by the group police is that there being was totally
invisible from the politics. there were other people making activists, poetry and art. within themselves as people appeared back after the work went into the world. but their punks by the way they look. they represented protest every time they went public. that freaked out the dictatorship. it was indistinguishable,. >> this is the thing that i find very interesting all the time, particularly about hip-hop it music. , wraor the conversations aroune frame the musicians less than human, out of touch with reality or not for contributors to any political discourse. i wonder if either of you or all of you could speak to whether you find this to be consistent with these histories that
musicians having things to say about the world in which they are creating art. >> i mean there's always an attitude of stain and relay. i mean, that is definitely come up multiple times with the weaver where people -- that quote from al, i don't want the politics i just want the music. that's definitely that is something constantly -- i see that in every decade. under that critique. you know, such as music, is any kind of entertainment industry. it's not just music, it's any kind of entertainment industry. you know you're just an entertainer, why do you have any say -- i think the beach boys think they keep their music and politics upper, i think if you step back that is not the case. >> and other thoughts about --
>> well, for the scene that i'm writing, everything they did was illegal. they were barred from studios, barred from the radio, cannot make records. the only way they can get their message across was a personal way when they were gigs. the gigs took place in lutheran churches. minister started taking outsider groups in the church was protected. you cannot have uniforms into churches. the whole illegal punk circuit and listen churches. even so, the government was so obsessive breaking enough that they would have informants inside the churches. one of the bands that went to prison for two years was tried based on lyrics that were overheard by an informant inside a church wre they had protection and could speak to abu terms. >> in this text -- this is a long quote. it says today it often seems her impulse to moralizing market
marches and civil rights heroes looking to the past is often the memes understanding the present. rather memorialization stands in the loo of burden of figuring out our time. in the context, the 2010 civil rights music at the white house. you say that you're not calling for a revival but in the ways of being that appeared in the traditions continue to matter as well as the features of black. my question is about, is it possible to pinpoint ways that black formalism or the features of black formalism for the present and future? >> i don't know. just to flush that out a little bit -- at the 2010 celebration of civil rights music, the white house with all these kind of r&b luminaries, they saying, gathered. it was televised and they saying freedom songs.
the last minute, the producer -- and cannot remember his name, the guy who does american idol. switched out and said it must enter much better to have the same people sing it. it was a fiasco and the president moved to the back because he didn't know it it was like a crisis moment. when president obama was inaugurated, reverend did the benediction for the inauguration and he cited the third first of lift every voice and sing. it was a person says listen, don't get seduced, don't be drunk with the wine of the world. the struggle continues. it objects the position of this transformative moment and potential loss i'm of the mind that history travels and eventually there are powerful symbols that fall by the
wayside. but what i was trying to gesture is to say the interdependence in the ritual and what seeing what other people does to you emotionally in developing a sense of trust and commonality. along with other kind of organizing practices are important particularly. i cannot -- i don't think i'm a person that should dictate how that can be. but i think social organization and be networked with other people who have a common sense of purpose remains important. i have a sense of urgency because in particularly, americans are so privatized, so individual. and i think given the things and challenges that we have now, we need to turn away from that. >> okay. >> that when we think of how
often separate from music as a community or a conscious community organizing tool or political tool. how often musical communities become sort of natural home for outsiders. for people who feel outside whatever system is yours to them. i feel like that's a pretty universal thing around the world. it is certainly not every musical scene is like that, but the idea that you can bond over where you are singing along and don't necessarily have to articulate yourself or your position or anything other than communicating through music, i think it's extremely important. and that feeds into social movements as well. people will sometimes come in as an outsider because this is a community that's welcoming them through music. it is welcoming them through an uplifting positive thing. very rarely does that turn bad. you know, post of the time, that turns into a positive. >> the punk movement was
definitely in an outsider as well. a lot of people got into it not realizing the consequences that would come with her. they got into it of the normal teenage thrills being dangerous and so obviously outside of society and their luck. the politicalization tends to come with interactions with the security forces. but the music itself, one sabeans came along, their music was so simple compared to a lot of the other activist groups. a lot of them were reform minded. let's change some environmental laws, let's take military training out of secondary schools. the punks w like [bleep] that was a really easy method to bring young people around to your cause. and i think this is a great strength during the 80s. and when the war fella turned out to be a short-term. they did not have a problematic approach.
it appears overnight with the fall of the war. they played on november 9, 1999. denied the war fella. in mid- set the audience was agitated in what turns out, they finished playing and everybody says that they'll wall has fallen, the book of the band that night. >> while. >> yeah that's really interesting. so, i know we are also going to have some time for some q&a. but i have a question and hopefully is not a difficult one. i also hope it's not too corny. i teach a class for my students get together and they actually take media and the like make it into something else.so they comt i'm expecting to them to learn how to wrap. that is not what i'm asking them to do. but it really is -- also the term like mix tape has a different definition.
in this context, i'm asking, if i were to put together a political disharmony mix tape, and we were going to be the curators of this mix tape, who would be included on this mix tape or what tax ? aside from the ones represented in your text, what particular songs or artists would be on the mix tape? >> i'm going to go sideways because one of the takeaways that transfers from the elsewhere is a nonmusical thing, it's graffiti. it was, don't die in the waiting room of the future which i took as a growling cry and it's like you cannot sit around and wait for change to happen. you have to make it happen. >> now we have a mix tape title and cover called don't die in the waiting room of the future. that is the tack.
>> it depends what the goal of the mix tape is. you try to liberate people of mix tapes orusdocument things. the historical argument of a mix tape where you can put all these different artists who were important over the continuum but there's also a mix tape you can make with the idea is to force a listener outside of their sense of musical comfort orders norm and they would not put them on mix tapes but the music of john was designed to liberate the idea of what music could in should be and therefore what society could and should be. i don't know exactly -- or taking songs and screen them up and mixing them and chopping them up. and in distorting them. are you saying john cage chopped
and screwed? >> something like that. >> a couple sentences of public community, couple seconds of kendrick lamar, i don't know. probably not full songs. >> i was going to say -- i don't know who did "good morning america", but that was the song that came to mind for me, the longest monks multiple versions of body and soul with permutations about love and life she is extraordinary blending of tradition. rooted in the ethical and conflict around injustice in here in this country. in an urgent politics. i would also think of kendrick
kendrick. -- kendrick lamar. >> my last question will be, observations of current practices of assembling dissociation that you might be able to speak -- some of us are interested, what seems like the key to the past about the future. it is a current through each of the text. my question is about other examples that you might see of these practices of assembling or association that indicate something about our potential political future. >> i think in some ways as a business question i think the collage is ascetic. i think it connects to the work of writers generally and historians your tree to bring resources from the past to bear
on the present report sounds and could together in order to to be the thing that excites imagination. a political future that might be different or social future or the possibility of who or what you can be. i'm constantly trying to think about collage and cure ration and a deliberate practice in the things you can draw from the past and create the next stage and do deliberately because we are inundated with information and that you make decisions of what to pull out in order to give you. >> one thing you can draw from
the story, one of the strengths of the network and the resilience, was how direct and personal was, you cannot use the funds because they were tapped, you cannot send letters because they are red. everything had to be passed person-to-person. you could tell someone about the gig and that he would tell the next person, the gigs were small and they were looking in the eyes of the people and tng them to protest directly face-to-face to 100 or 200 people at a time. i think that personal direct touch was really important trait. when people comparison they ask about the comparisons in one of the big differences the mediation the picture -- they are making things that are up to be of media outside their own country. where this network was personal and focused on the direct environment.
>> there has been a notion of what a network is become mutated in last decades with the idea of local, local people in your physical fear. but there are people that are in local and causes that are local in your virtual social media and i don't think that should be discounted. the people you're interacting with one way to think about organizing is around music is, like everything, it's different for everybody. it's for every locality. it's the music that engages you and figure out how that citizen and the passion is the important part. it's not the music that is superficial, but there is a relationship between the two were i feel like the music in some ways does has to come
first. >> thank you i think we are going to take some questions now if there are, it looks like there [laughter] >> i can't hear. >> hello hello. >> all three of you give me goosebumps. i remember the fall of the berlin wall and realizing i want to be a journalist. there was a review of my favorite album, songs of the q life, stevie wonder. it said, culturally, politically, creatively songs lived up to everything that was
promised. and on the way here is a sin to past time. as preachers glorifying the days long gone behind, spending her days in remembrance of ignorance of praise. it is hard to listen to since 2016. because what was written in 1976 has become relevant. painfully. there is something else -- is okay. i wanted to emphasize i didn't hear anyone mentioned the music of the 70s because marvin gaye and stevie wonder and others, wrote songs -- marvin gaye in 1971 on what's going on on is in the fight of power. in the public enemy 89. i mean we've been seeing about
the same struggles for long time. and i'm wondering when the time will turn. when i understand is not a personal issue, really is. it's an issue that's national, we can isolate, and if we listen to each other, we can work together. we do not have to disassociate or become tribal in a sense that were so quick to respond though not actually listening. >> is there anything with regard to music in germany america where you think that the tide will turn and we will become and
will get past the point we are now. which is not a place, we are not in a good place is perfectly come back and relevant again. >> just a little level of antidote. the fight of power came about because he asked public in a many to do a hip-hop version. and he said no. he said that is not going to work. so they wrote by the part. , think that speaks here sense in, i think it's not as though retrenchment. but more recently i thought about its both sides of this
thing the extreme ugliness in vision of liberty. and the complexity of who we are. with all the wounds but also the beauty. i think that means that is not the struggle over in it requires vigilance, kelly worsened talks about beating back the past. that is not something the ends. this is a moment in which we see that design. >> one of the things that i thought about a lot when i was researching my book in looking at these moments from the 50s. it is very easy to say that there are all these parallels between that era in this era. but the thing i kept saying, they are not parallel, they it's a continuum. it's the same arguments, same people in the same globalists
are kept coming up in the 50s, osler think it's being used by the right wing media. it is all these things that are straight there. it gave me an appreciation for the struggle for the s-uppercase-letter. there is that solidarity and knowing that people have been fighting this fight for a long time. hopefully things will get better. but they are still going to be a fight. and it's in a good way. >> i ended up falling in love with berlin because of the punk industry. the music scene disappeared overnight. the energy was still there, diy, and their political focus is still there. what they did, none of the activists who were in focus and that is something that is not very well known here. but they didn' wanted to have a
independent country on principles. then the dictatorship has been run by. they retrench in the mode that they known from the 80s. they carved out physical and philosophical for the connect. and to extend this to exist and is very indicative of those principles. a lot of the clubs are run as cooperatives and they will get the same which regards to what they do. their political wings for demonstrations. to examine the extent, to create an island of ideology they represent the way they want to live. that is maybe a positive outcome of that the you can still see an impact on society today.
>> i wanted to say a little bit more and heavy say a little bit more about the passion that could be brought forth for music. [inaudible] [inaudible] let alone some of the other amazing songs. i just think, i want to encourage more of that to have us do more of that and have people come to these kinds of
events because i'm an opera singer, i'm a psychologist, i don't know of anything else other than when we all get together, singing physically or listening that does this and i would like to hear you say more about how we can use that more. >> playing music with anybody regardless of the purpose is an inherently powerful thing. your gathering together with other people thinking music in the idf during any amount of intention behind it can be an incredibly powerful thing. i guess, i don't have any methods other safe than making music is really fun and rewarding and satisfying and
personal ways for also invigorates. i'm not sure i'm adding much to that other than a thumbs up. >> i also don't have any prescriptive measures but i will say that my oldest son is 15, and seen him with his friends, many of us complain about young people in social media. but him and his friends get together multiple times a week and they have all these different bands and i think that seeing his generation, i don't know how widespread this is, but making music together is one of the ways they are managing the sense of crisis in this moment. it's a way of trying to make in addition to going to protest, and those types of things. but there's also something about
building community there that is really important. >> just going to see music, beside playing music, going to see live music and engaging in fighting other people around you who do that as well. i think it's extremely important. >> i think one of the things you can take away is there was something magical about the mix of the music and the message. it wasn't the message alone that would've been as powerful. people were sometimes literally running out of the church concert and repeating graffiti on the wall. you'll get people up and out and doing things. [inaudible] >> i would love for you to give us a link that was made of something that was underground and totally illegal into something we could totally see i would love to hear who you would say that we can listen to
and if we were going to lend her ears to this from on almanac, who would you have listened to. we have any experience of it? >> basically it was able to be recorded effectively. the only thing they could do with cassette decks. imposter copies to their friends. none of u. if you look up l ' att tn ttt. sch o i'm k eam.com. you don't have to understand german to hear the revolutionary of what they are doing. >> there are a number of live albums. the reunion of carnegie hall, it
came out 50th. the songs in the south, they do not play a song of social movement but there is a force behind their voices singing together that is militant and i would used to describe it. there is an emotional aspect. their life records or life require kurds might be more effective or just him leaving the crowd. >> i would say, for the 1970s, kim weston's version that she sang and also after satyrs field, in north carolina in 1974 from one to love, it's real interesting in the 70s. you could watch video footage of james brown singing the star-spangled banner and he interrupts the star-spangled
banner and stevie wonder do something similar at an all-star ga. there was video footage in recorded in the most recent, jason ran in the 2014 recording which is a beautiful instrumental version. >> i don't have a question but i cannot believe we are not mentioning bob dylan or tim cook. from the 50s. is anybody interested? >> i have enormous bob dylan fan and i find his music -- is not the political part that engages me, there's something about what he was doing. not to discount his songs from the early 60s, but he had a transformational point where the
music goes from being apolitical to moving into the background over the course of his albums between 62 and 65. after that he becomes a really great example that often in the early 60s. it shows that it can be a community gathering point. >> like rolling stones isn't exactly a price that there can be. >> i love tim they are protest singers for every era, every decade, they cut through the radio and technology of that moment. >> from the perspective of my characters the 60s failed them. they've not been defensible in
changing regime or causing significant change in that society so they took a more aggressive confrontational approach and looked down on what they called the peace generati >> i have to say for my purposes my interest in 60s music is not recorded by a large but freedom songs and my interest is in why those took place with every voice which had to do with the fact that people were coming into the movement from all over the country who didn't know lift and in the actual moments of protest, whatever they were protesting, the song could be modified. i am interested. >> whether there was anything
particularly special about the american song, the american myth of the songs you were talking about when i think about offsetting and the fact there are so many different groups, so many perspectives and so many different alternatives for how to motivate people and get people interested or to stop people from engaging that had the impact, the song somehow, don't know if that's a style of song or the production, but it wasn't anything different about our sitting versus -- this might be my ignorance, might be the same in germany but i think of two sides whereas here, is there anything about that that characterizes the musical connects with what you know about the music?
>> the weavers were singing songs from around the world and many different parts of american culture, their first two hits, one was a family focus and the other was leadbelly and the other that are really well-known are now known as a song written apartheid south africa, they were singing without english words, not a great attempt, not a successful version of transliteration but they were modifying it in that way. their message really was all this music from all these different cultures is on an equal playing and you should be celebrating south african song next to a blues song and a song from appalachia. that song was overtly their goal, that is what i mean. they were picking these songs and placing them next to each
other and into the american top 10, and that was the goal anyway. >> the british pump was the big influence. and first-time there were no slow songs but that was the extent of the enticement, otherwise it was political and then they were focused when they looked abroad for inspiration and it was further east working with polish punks and gary and punks and check punks and polish punks became a source of inspiration and logistical support.
>> two things that are important about this, it never mentions black people explicitly and never mentions america or the united states explicitly even though it is deeply connected to both but one of the debates when i was talking to people about the song is the end of the song goes shattered beneath our hand may we forever stand true to our native land and depending on the generation and the politics of the person i spoke to they would think native land in the united states are meant africa. so it has this sort of international -- recorded once in jamaica so it has the possibility of being international.
>> thank you for powering up a piece of the cold war we don't think about but i have time for a quick question. what happened to the punks? where did they go, musically? why did you think the weavers were so corny? you had begun to answer this but you didn't. what a fabulous book you have written. did the johnson brothers who wrote lift every voice, where they were writing them, did they market it that way, were they writing this or was it hard to tell. and you can read every verse a lot of different ways. >> i want to say this will be our last question and you can purchase books.
>> the johnson brothers were not aware. they wrote the song for 500 schoolchildren to sing at the celebration in jacksonville, florida, the stanton school was their alma mater they moved from jacksonville because it was -- earl matthews in a couple years referring to it as an and from and it spread organically. it was embraced as an and them pretty immediately by black communities even though they were not aware of what was happening and johnson wound up having to defend himself because there was a lot of political objection to this idea of people trying to make claims to being part of the united states and having a separate and some. this was before the
star-spangled banner did not have the us and them, and that was a lot of newspaper debates. and this was not a and some, the naacp happens, this ur there is tension around that designation for civil rights organizations that existed for the johnson brothers. >> the thing i love about the weavers, the simplicity of their arrangement of the guitar, banjo and four voices thinking together which is an elegant combination. that version of the weavers is powerful to me, hearing the 4 of them sing songs together. the corny part of the weavers
is pop hits, where there are string sections and horns and choirs and adding new orchestral flourishes because the song is too short and can't be a pop single. a lot of that sounds very dated whereas if you play just a raw weavers recording of before them it doesn't sound current but it sounds like something that could be being made today. >> there's no one answer to what happened to the people in this book, there is a subset, a large number are still involved in the art scene and another subset who especially if they had extensive dealings or spent time in prison, the police tended to be physically brutal and psychological torture was their tool and they were good
at it and there's a complication in the there were informants including in the punk scene. is generally a lot of forgiveness because they were so good at profiling people they found people they could convince they were helping a friend so they thought they were keeping a friend out of prison or spearing them in detail and or something, there's a lot of forgiveness from those people. a few people are still frozen t and ose are the ones falling for personal gain or money and what i see between new york and berlin, a lot still, you see compared to new york there's a lot more people power in berlin and that is the legacy of this movement. >> i would like to thank the authors, give them around of applause.
[applause] >> please support the authors by purchasing books and having them signed. i would also like to say this panel is sponsored by the robert cornell memorial foundation and i want to thank the virginia festival of books for having us all here so take care. [applause] [inaudible conversations] >> today c-span marks the 20th anniversary of the columbine high school shooting, once the deadliest mass shooting in american history, the program that includes bill clinton, vice president al gore and members of congress speaking to the public after the shooting as well as events with columbine students and parents. visit 10:00 eastern on c-span.
>> one c-span -- television was 3 networks and pbs. been in 1979 a small network with an unusual name rolled out a big idea, let viewers decide on their own what was important to them. c-span opened the doors to washington policymaking for all to see bringing unfiltered coverage from congress and beyond. in the age of power to the people this is true people power. in the 40 years since, the landscape is clearly changed. there is no monolithic media, broadcasting has given way to narrowcasting, youtube stars are a thing but c-span's idea is more relevant today than ever, no government money sports c-span, nonpartisan coverage is a public service by your cable or satellite provider, on television or online, c-span is your unfiltered view of government so you can make up your own mind.