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tv   Discussion on Ukraine Election Results  CSPAN  April 29, 2019 7:11pm-8:02pm EDT

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unilaterally make the decisions about people. >> i'm a lawyer i read so many different privacy policies and they're clearly not meant to in form a consumer about what information is collected and how that information is going to be used. we need to have meaningful consent so a consumer can make a decision about using a product or not. >> watch the communicators, tonight at 8:00 eastern on c-span 2. >> wednesday, at 10:00 a.m. eastern, attorney general william barr will testify before the senate judiciary committee on the mueller report. and on thursday, at 9:00 a.m. eastern he'll testify before the house judiciary committee. live on c-span 3. c-span.org, and listen on the free c-span radio app. >> now a discussion on the 2019 ukrainian presidential election results, they talk about the implications of ukraine's election on its economy, the
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current political landscape and the ongoing conflict with russia the carnegie endowment for international peace hosted this event. >> good morning everyone. welcome to the carnegie endowment. i'm andrew weiss, the vice president for studies and we are delighted to have put together this team of experts -- we're delighted to put together this team of experts to talk about the shock waves that are emanating from ukraine as a result of sunday's election. to my right is professor -- who is a professor of history at harvard university, and the director of the harvard ukrainian research institute. next to him is matthew kaminsky the editor in chief of politico, and previous incarnations he's
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been a correspondent for the financial times, the economist, the "wall street journal," a editorial writer for the "wall street journal" and the inaugural editor of politico europe. and on the very far end of the table is a carnegie endowment scholar, has spent the past two decades in and out of ukraine, and former parts of the soviet union as an incubator for civil society groups and a very independent voice of reason about developments in ukraine. at least with the first person i encountered who was telling me at the beginning of this year that vulensky was for real, and published in politico, and words to that effect. so kind of a nice interaction, and collaboration with politico. so i'm going to set the scene a little bit, and then pose some questions to colleagues, and then we'll come to the audience and ask folks to join in as well
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let me start with -- who as folks may know is probably the premier historian in the united states of ukraine. has written fabulous books about the collapse of the soviet union , about the chur noble disaster today is the 33rd anniversary of the chur noble nuclear disaster. so we'll talk about that in a moment, and there are copies in the hallway of the recent book about the churnoble disaster book if you want to pick them up on the way out. someone told me yesterday, there's a graphic that people are emailing each other, that if you you were to plot over the last 1991, the leaders in the region, and i think it was like a timeline where it was russia was on top, ukraine maybe it was
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2000. if you look at from left to right the leader does not change there was a blip in the timeline where -- has shown where putin is standing on his shoulder. and every five years the leader in ukraine changes. and if there's a pattern here of upheaval and of major change. and is that what we experienced on sunday is another moment of disjuncture that fits in a bigger pattern of how ukraine is a society and a political entity organizes itself. is that what we're witnessing, or is it what the newspaper accounts portray, which is this is the reality tv and the tv star, and the very charismatic figure who came out of the tv screen as a -- you know interesting and very charismatic figure that average people all got to know as a tv character, and then when he said oh, yeah, by the way i want to be your president for real it was very
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easy for people to say, we are so unhappy we'll take anything over the current government. which you know has not delivered prosperity, which has not resolved the conflict with russia. so it's easy to vote for something that looks and smells like a protest. but i'm curious, what have we witnessed in the last couple of days? >> well thanks. excellent question. if you compare ukraine to russia ukraine is the only country in which democracy survived the 1990s, and ukrainians turnout to be much better at sending the politicians packing than electricking the politicians they can trust. it looks like the democracy works there, but the emphasis are on the idea of really
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getting rid of someone who didn't meet the expectations of the electorate. so you have to start somewhere, and that's what is happening in ukraine. generally when you look at the presidents, since 1991, two of them didn't actually survive until the end of their term. so, the early elections and of course -- only one of them was there for two terms, and again the second term can really end ended in a manager scanned scandal. now we have the second -- for the second president who served the full-term, and didn't live in disgrace. so that's putin he enters the
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context. and so mr. -- most of the observers look at that vote as really a -- vote. what is interesting from the historical perspective, if you look at this history between chu rnoble, churnoble is also the start of the politics. the start of the political history of contemporary ukraine is really april of 1986. but if you look at this recent history, we had the presidential elections, since '91. until 2010 when the country was
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divided there was east and west one way or another, and the division was more or less in the middle. this is the second presidential elections, where if you look at the map and they have a map there let's see what it is -- this -- the 2019 presidential elections from one and two round one is on the right, and round two is on the left. we see that the country actually was pretty much in line the way the -- despite the fact that there were dozens of people con tenders. and this reminds us of about the map to the right and not to the left. to the left this is presidential elections of 2010, and you see it via the red and dark red. this is the original that voted
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for -- and to the right the region that voted for -- and that was more or less the story in the intellectuals in 204, the elections of 2014, we get ukraine more or less united, and this is the comparison of the -- on the left of the electoral map that brought -- to power, and to the right electoral map of ukraine that brought mr. zuman sky to power. so loss of -- made ukraine much more homogenous place than it was ever before. you still see the pendulum going back and forth because they didn't get some areas in the
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east, and zulansky disability get some areas in the west. so the spread of the pendulum is different, and this is looking from the perspective of ukrainian politics over the last 30 years. we now can talk really about maybe emerging -- where ukrain ians are united in election or rejecting the person and i think this is one of the mostquential results for the election. >> let me turn to you, somebody who has spotted this phenomenon early, what is it about vulensky himself, and the character he plays on television, that created this opening, that somebody who literally avoided defining a political agenda of any kind didn't state his views
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except that the system is horrible, and we're mad at hell about what is running our country and the people who are running our country. how did something like this happen that a person could have such a totally tab -- no political experience, no team, no international exposure, that he could basically run away with the election, where it was something like a 70% landslide on sunday. >> well, you know first of all he has a team. it's called -- 95 it's his own production company. and he has become a millionaire poking fun of politics and politicians. he's a political -- which gives him a lot of insights, obviously he's a successful one. so he's making money on politics and his team has been creamily creative. if you watch the servant of the people, i think can give you a good example.
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particularly i remember everyone watch the third series. the third has only three episodes and you can get a lot of insights what's going to happen next. even the language, about two days ago is there. for example in a couple of things as well. so he has a very strong team. he doesn't have a team which would have political experience. which i think we're going to kind of it all boils down now what they're going to do. is the political experience but i also would like to emphasize what political experience means in ukraine. it means corruption. and that's what people refused. we don't need a politico experiment. somebody who has been politics directly because that means that person is ultimately corrupt. and you know like if you look at the polls, which i would base my projection on the polls as well as my own discussions with people, and i have been warned over to summer to watch zulensky , because he has been
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reaching out to a lot of people i know. these are experts, ngo's people around politics, or foreign policy issues. and he has been recruiting, he has been reaching out, and listening to a lot of people already for about a year. so this is not a accidental thing. just not on the surface. and i think what's also important is the timing. he was actively campaigning 3-4 months. look at -- who has been leading for long, and their campaign went down simply because it was over a year and she couldn't bring anything. so you know the -- are saying that 66% of zulensky's orders are voted against -- and the system he represented. so i think it's very telling, at the same time -- 95 has been running, and they zulensky was nowhere to be seen in ceev. and they have been a very smart campaign it's not only the movie but particularly the concerts and events they gave.
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they gave in every place a lot of places in three months two concerts every day, one for free , but those who were in need , and those who paid. concerts for those better off. they even made money on the campaign. and and there's also he has been extremely successful attracting earned media. it's a bit like you know connected to trump, whatever he did the media was dying for it because the leaders wanted to kind of learn what zulensky's about, and the less he was telling about the campaign, about the program, about his theme, the more interesting and intriguing had has become. so you know like the media journalist fans for selling there were three types of media campaigns now. pour shaken o, and -- everything
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white, and normal of the -- everything legal, and zulensky who doesn't pay for anything, but we're running after him because he's the only one our readers are interested in. the last point voters -- the rating was up to 69 percent. and they were showing in the second round if he gets to the d round if he can get into the sed round he will win and it was clr he's going to be the fresh faced that's what the people wanted. fresh face no political experie. so i think it was how to say, nt a rocket science but a lot of people particularly in the euron union where i'm from worker
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campaigning for him. we did not understand how come e ukraineians refusing porshenko representedand what he represent ly about very bad -- very modest economic results. the ukrainian economy continuedo grow but people didn't see too h of it. at the time same time people wid see eight times increase of thes price, and the -- payment. now name me a government which survives eight times payment ine in any democracy. and i don't think there is anytg like that happening, at the same time porshenko adopted a strong national building of the languae armybut people care about these things, at least certain level f people, but not about the econo. and not without better -- you kw a better economy and better living standards. and the key data is here accordg
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to the imf ukraine has become tr est country of europe, now aheah the elections and i simply think that porshenko represented had literally no chance and that's e have now. >> so i'm sort of restraining myself from the urge to say evee should watch the show on netfli, servant to the people, it is a remarkable show. the production values are very h , and the level of political touch and -- it's a remarkable . so i apologize if i've given mr. zulensky -- but let me turn to u as child of the region who was born in poland, and who is prese professional media figure in th. what are we witnesses in our politics both in europe and oths
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of the world that creates this dynamic and creates so much of an openig it's happening in it happened in italy with the five-star moveme. it happened in this country with the rise of donald trump. what is it that drives voters no you know not really trust the traditional political establisho be willing to basically just you know throw caution to the wind?s this or is that not the norm tt we saw in mcchrome. we saw a lot of outsiders who he come out of nowhere and totallyn political order upside down. >> i'm glad you mention macron, because he was -- he was the sae they're both 40. never ran for anything in his l. created a movement outside the y structures, omarsh, which is si- zulensky is facing the same tact
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ical choice. how do you fight when you don't have a party or base but you hae momentumin mack roan's case thiy cause him to cause early electi. within two months you had electn france, and his party that didnt exist before won full control oe parliament and i think too to a question it shows that ukraine has been an avant-gardeest sort of place the cold war era, and we're seeing w toothere is a long ukrainian history of distrust or central , or there is polish, russian, and more recently their own. and i think this has been kind f the one constant. and in that way zulensky fits a pattern of you know ukrainians r ly irreverent which is a positie trait in a nation. but there are three things about him that i think are quite uniq.
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and one, the first member of a w generation to take power in ukro was there forever, and -- cherbk y, that's right. and the same -- then porshenko s right at the tail end of it, thy were late, late baby boomers, ty were all people who were born ie soviet world. zulensky was 50 years old when -- no he was younger, he was -- math on the spot, sorry. he was 15. maybe even younger. so he was not arrived in the soviet system. he was raised in the post soviet
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system which was not radically different but his formative yeae already in a free-free-wheeling dysfunctional, but a very diffed than the kind of provincial sovt ukraine characterized by mostlye also the first one doesn't comet of that post-soviet industrial economic or political that's te thingthe -- was more political. it was a -- a soviet nuclear missile factory boss. now zulensky is from that same a but he was not a factory manager and you get to yen covech, via - who was seen as a modern man bus pretty much a political figure a central bank, all the way throuh porshenko, who by the way, is bl
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all agood afternoon. but he's been in bed with every party in the he's he was not exy a new, and so this is another thing that was quite striking f. and the third thing is yes, he'n experienceed, yes he doesn't hay disadvantage say that being ines a clear positive because it meas you're probably not corrupt, att not corrupt in the same way the whole elite has been corrupt. but he has experienced and deepy experienced very, very good at d say is the most important thingn the politician in the modern wo, at least in the modern free worh is he's a great communicator. and that is something trump has shown to us, macron has shown, because we now live in a world e the old mediators, my sector included, the media, we're the o will filter for you who is seris and who is not.
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the party boss obama, another exampleyou can go around them nw because if you are a great commr and it opens up the fields to mr peat in the country. someone we never heard of is noe most talked about democratic candidatei guess the last thingd say is having been -- for month, personally and pressurey moving experiences, it's a reminder of. one, it has the best civic sociy in the best soviet space and i d argue in terms of europe. actively engaged, mobilized, itd the worst political class i've n in any country. i can't imagine the more medioc, venal, short-sighted, awful, aw, political class that includes e. so finally, this grace in sociey has someone who he can threes
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project some sort of hope into k from all the awfulness of their political class. now there are a lot of complican s or caveats to that right ther. >> let me come back to that political class which is a veryd imageand it's tossed around a lt it's clear that state capture hs been since '91. where powerful and vested intert has documented the state for thr own benefit and kept it, and i think writes about this in a pe on carnegie's website on monday. to keep the steak weak and allow themselves as much authority any to capture the wrath of controlling various assets, ands schemesthat structure has not gp overnightit has grown up over d. and it seems unlikely to me, and this is just fiction, that an outsideer can walk in tomorrow,d
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fully dismantle, yet alone understand what really the coun, and how governance is adopted. is that too negative an assessmt of what zulensky faces. and are the forces so entrenched france is hard enough for macrot he's not dealing with the same d of level as state capture, obviously>> i think it's very rc assessment of what is going on. and the previous two presidentsf the ukraine it wasn't just about the capture of the state by different groups, both of them d afternoons, olgood afternoons mn making, oligarch, porshenko hasn an oligarch grew, and what you e
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is that there would be revolts n a certain level of other oligarh sthis is important part of my -- the tv support for mr. zulensky, from a number of oligarch's, fr- to it's also very strong indication that they were not hs what was happening with mr. porshenkowith mr. jumensky whate now is it's well documented fact that he is a business partner oe of those oligarchs. it's also a change that for the first time in the previous two presidents were oligarchs in thn rightthis one is actually not an oligarchand there is a reason te the money he made were made in e context of ukraine and conditiof
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ukraine in a very transparent ad honest way. what that means is that most liy we have a return to the model tt was under-- to a degree, and --n the 1990s where the president becomes to be an arbiter. to be someone who is above this different oligarchy groups and o make their interest somehow work together for the benefit of the. the question is whether someoneo has no political experience reay can manage that. and, but that's the biggest challenge that not only mr. zult also the ukraine faces at this t .there is also talk that while with a big president and some tg that probably mr. zulensky -- te
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is a chance for reforming of ukrainian political institutiond turning ukraine from tellings parliamentary elections republio parliamentary presidential. it's former to become really ine deep center of power and author. with the map that i showed your- of 2010, i don't think that was possible or that would be a gooa because the country was so divi. but with the -- your country toe uniteed in terms of what the elt electorate likes and doesn't li. and mr. zulensky is not offering radically new vision either for- with russia or europe. maybe parliamentary election -- parliamentary republic is somets a chance in -- >> so we've spent a lot of time talking about ukraine as a couna
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political system, and about zuls a unique figure we haven't talkd at all about the war. and if you walked around washinn , and you pulsed polled the audiences, or -- audiences and d what's really the core issue in ukraine people would center on . we haven't really talked about . in the last 24-48 hours we've sw raw this issue is, in terms of h the russian very provocative mo, day before yesterday, to expedie dite processing of citizenship applications from residents of , which is a move that has been un other parts of the soviet unione the conflict situations prevail. so in some ways, the russian strategy in response to vulensko
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turn up the heat. and what's so dangerous about te situation is that western polics hateful reactive, and the russie tain a lot of levers and controo bring the temperatures up or do. can vulensky have any impact on that dynamic, and i am going ton to first. how does he manage around a situation that's that difficultd where ukraine is operating a pry serious disadvantage militarilyd geopoliticaly given that the trl partners of ukraine, since the r started are distracted, or haver atized ukraine. you couldn't if you asked donald trump or any member of his teamo kick off the big things they're doing to support ukraine it's an listand a political commitment t was so visible after 2014, from
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western leaders who have obviou- i'm curious, can you talk a lite bit about vulensky strategy to p manage the conflict. zelenskiy. it will be important for him to distinguish himself for poroshe. it's been a issue in the electis beforethis looks at a great big victory, only one victory is bir than this. that's poroshenko five years ag. because he won 54 percent in tht roundhere zelenksiy. then before the elections he sai apologize for that promise but s what we're going to get becausef russia and there's nothing you o about it. and ukrainians tired of the war because they connected the war e
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state of the economy, logically. why is there no investments. one of the reasons is the war, t at the same time the ukrainianst tired of the war but there was o consensus over the congresswoma. what is exactly the solution for done boss. and i have been talking to zelenksiy about this. zelenksiy is a master of disrups well as improvisation. this is what he does as a politl comed i said and satirist. but at the same time i think thy will try to freeze the conflict. it's possible to do certain stes what can improve the situation d therefore distinguish himself ft has been happening. what he can do, stop the advancf the ukrainian army in the gray e .we don't really talk about it, but this is happening, and it'se of the reasons why there is ceae
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violations. by the way it was quite remarkae were no casualties of the electn daysneither in the first round r the second round. also quite remarkable that halff the army supported zelenksiy. in the second round it was onlya difference between 400 votes ane second round it was 1.5%. so when zelenksiy is saying stop shooting, he can change the attr the ukrainian army. second, improve crossing start a campaign or information campaigy say towards the other side. recognize there are ukrainians e other side. compared to the current rhetorit this is everything russian. for example, build a bridge -- e ukrainian side is blocking withe notion that the tanks will invae ukraineat the same time order t- died only this year, not able to cross the bridge there was a rud they have to go through the riv, and it's awful conditions you cn
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watch video reports about that. so you know if he can change the attitude towards this, that cane steps toward freezing the compen .why the freezing of the competition is important? becan reduce resources for the war. ukraine spends $7.5 billion a yn defensethat's over 6% of the bu. that's not for the country, it'h a poverty. poor country can afford. soput the resources behind something elseand i think they o thathere, of course, i'm finishg here what russia voted. and it's nice to see the kremlin step up the pressure, they ban e coal and oil exports to ukraine, which at this stage is not creag an energy crisis but if they wat to deal with this in the with respect they're going to have a- fledged crisis in ukraine. and the second sign and decree l create passportization.
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the russian pension fund issueda clarifyication that only those m done boss can get pensioned whon move to russia. so those who are staying cannot get russian pension which i thik is a important clarification. so currently zelenksiy is from double pressure from the kremlid the ukrainian nationals, that's home>> so matt, let me ask you o step back as an observer of u.s. politics and of europe politicsd talk a little bit about ukraine. because after the war started, d after the revolution had taken e i don't think there was a politn europe or the united states whos not really impressed by both how incredible the sight was of ukrs defending their country, of thrt a political leader who had obviously done horrible things d killing people -- and were all d
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at what russia had done, and basically destroying the post cr european security order. and then you flash forward justo years to the summer of 2016, anu have donald trump as a candidat. and very flagrant and flamboyant ways saying i think the people f crimea would be happier. that's what i've been told if ty were part of russia. and we see in the mueller report that in private he talks the sae wayhe just doesn't care about ukraineand he really has his eyn some new relationship with russ, for whatever reason, it's still very inexplicable. but people are not as engaged ad not as supportive of helping ukraine manage through this hore set of crises, which would have flattened most other countries , frankly, and it's amazing that s consolidated it's nation hood, n the face of aggression, and fout the russians to a standstill ina
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lot of ways. can you talk about the political calculus of why the west is noty pulling its side of the bargain. we're willing to write checks. we have a aggressive -- we have all sorts of technical and other systems programs that have powed resources into ukraine, but thel level commitment has dramaticaly diminished. >> it also plays off your last pointfor your friends this is ry all about russia. it's a practical point in termsf it's not what -- does, it's nott happens in -- itself. it is what the kremlin thinks it is in its short-term interest thereso currently they may tests guy, they see him as a russian speaker that maybe is somethingd but also kind of dangerous becae he can speak directly to russias
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through instagram. you worry about that. the kremlin is i would always ae it's priority one through five through ten is -- then it's mayt russian self-interest, the econt it's about regime survival. he's been in power for 20 years. that is remarkable. it's unprecedented. how he goes is probably on his d all the timeso, and i guess theo thinking it's really just about. it's about our relationship are russiahow can we manage putin's aggression that was the drivings behind the interest in ukraine 4 , but it was also about how do e not provoke anything that will d to world war 3. obama administration is why they decide not to give the ukrainiay arms because they will lose any- russia has more at stake in ukre
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than we ever will. although there's a feeling thatf ukraine falls somehow then the t cold war order that we helped fh it because it becomes some partf some russian sphere. for me it's interesting having n in brussels for four years and being back in washington for a e of years, you debate hear very much about ukraine. policy conversation, despite thd it's just kind of this paradox f the trump era. trump probably articulates more powerfuly, what an italian prime minister thinks what most of thn cabinet thinks and what most ofe european elites think, which isu really care more about russia tn ukraine, we have to find ways tt along with putin. despite this, the u.s. this administration has armed ukrain. and what's remarkable is seeing where the ukrainians were terrif
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trump when he came in, i don't w if polling has been done on this but i would bet, at least amonge elite trump has a higher standig than obama did. because trump has seen us come h in a way that obama never did. on the european side, i think as long as you have merkel in placu are keeping together fairly frae consensus around a need to not e sanctions down. but there is certainly no suppot for doing anything more aggress. you're not really had any new rs of sanctions in five years, so we're in this kind of unhappy ss quoand we're neither side doesnt want to provoke anything in eitr directioneither towards a soluti don't see a solution which wille everyone happy, that's impossibr for it to real confrontation. because in the short term this t for putin, because having the et
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sliver there festering, it's liu have a healthy foot but there'sa big blister on your little pink. that's been the russian strategn the caucuses, for 25 years now. but so we're in this kind of no man's land on policy there. >> so i'm going to ask one last question and then we'll open th, and we have microphones and we'l get folks directly involved in e conversationas someone who grewn ukraine sir serge, there is a remarkable opportunity to creatw identityto create volunteer unit went and fought and specialized themselves and look at their lea lot of suspicion, even on the ft -lines. people are still willing to fig
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for their country. we've seen the recent decision o create an auto selfilous ukrainn orthodox at the center of porss campaign regardless of the facte lost is a powerful set of messas about army language and faith. we have a language law which cae into not coming in fourth but s voted on just this week. can you talk about how importand impactful across the very divere country those things are, and ht the resonance is and where you think they might matter in the e ? >> i think this is an excellt question, and i use it also to e the project we have, it's a digl atlas of ukraine, and we are mag the change in attitudes of you
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crepeian population from beforee -- and the war, and then late in 2015, 2017, and hopefully this r as welland what we noticed there issues that were central for th- poroshenko's campaign, and they, language, religion, they were ry quite high on the societal agens a whole in 2015. immediately after the war. people were scared, they didn'tw what was going on. you have a spike in the number f people that are self-reporting y are using ukrainian language at home, and after 2015, 2016, 201t goes down more or less to what t was before.
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before those events. so looks like poroshenko was mae by a couple of years, with this- with that message. and my guess is the reasons whye was late because he couldn't rey run on the platform in which hes running back in 2014. so the war and peace were there without much movement. the and his presidency, the ukrainian government and the pre from imf in particular, they rad the utility payments. you have a situation where the economy is growing but people ae really poorer than they were. every previous government knew t was a political suicide. and they didn't do that, they we rightso porshenko did that, so e
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couldn't really run on the econn the peace, so he went for identy politicsand he lost and lost bi. it's also very interesting thatn this election, like in the elecs of 2014, we don't really see the ukrainian nationalism doing wel. either on the -- for the presidt seems to me the nationalist cane got somewhere a little bit more than 1% of the vote. in back in 2015 the main nationalist never got to the pae don't know whether it will get . today, so we are seeing a situan in which there is a continued information of the civic natione ukraineand against porshenko anu mensky was ukrainian speakers ad russian speakers, there are difs
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but no dramatic difference in ts of the support is one more indication of that. so the war is there creating a ukrainian nation more unified ts before, and again we can see thm the past. so in shortened medium term, ukraine is really trapped with s happening in donbass, but in thr term as a historian i recognizes major shift in change that is ho stay>> one follow-up is that onr point about nationalism, it's so critical in 2013, 2014, russiann ganda kept our crazy anti-semit, nationalists who are in mydon. it was a meme that was picked up by the western media, and what o
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we have now, a ukrainian jew who speaks russian has now been eley 75% or the country to be presid. one of the misunderstanding of e that i cross all the time is language is not an issue, excepe in parts of in the west. it's a place you can speak ukran and russian freely. it is one of the most countries that is at ease with diversity. both religious, cultural and lit ic and that's always been a dis service to ukraine that i partle on my industry, but i think it's like a small, but important poit that's worth emphasizes. >> it also makes you feel bad at russian propaganda so we'll havo find a new talking point about russian propaganda. >> c-span's washington journal e every day with news and policy s that impact you. coming up tuesday morning, needm peach founder tom desire will ds
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efforts to impeach president trd then attorney and law professorn determination wits will join usk about his efforts to impeach the presidentand kaiser health newsd shuttley will be with us. he'll talk about federal regulas regarding electronic medical re. be sure to was these 7 eastern, tuesday morning. join the discussion. >> the c-span bus recently travd to texas, and georgia. asking folks what does it mean o be american? >> and what it means to be amern to me is the tonight to challene the status quo, to constantly be striving for what we think is fd equitable, and sometimes it's ns the best decision but it's a che .and i think being an american sometimes is hard to represent n well, but i think overall we teo survive>> and for me what it meo
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be an american is freedom. freedom from persecution, and fm to accept people for who they a, and understanding that we werent the first people hardly anyone n the united states of america wee here they all migrated. . good and bad times to me, being an american means being free. i'm free to live how i
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choose, believe how i choose, raise my family the way i want to and it's also a responsibility. i think it's important. you have to educate yourself to be un-american, making good educated decisions when you're at the ballot box >> voices from the road on c-span. >> coming up tonight on cspan2, the communicators features a conversation on the internet and privacy concerns. then senators pay tribute to former senator richard lugar who died this weekend. after that a discussion on us iran relations and later house veterans affairs committee looked into efforts to prevent veteran suicides . >> this week on the communicators, interviews from the state of the net conference

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