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tv   After Words Jennifer Eberhardt Biased  CSPAN  May 12, 2019 12:00pm-1:01pm EDT

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but i will say this, when you live in a time when compromise is considered surrender and political opponents are treated as your political enemies, then our republic doesn't work very well. so i hope that something will happen to get us back on the track where we can say once again, that a compromise can be a good thing. i'm not seeing a lot of it but i am keeping my fingers crossed. >> type author's name in the search bar at top of the page. >> up next on book tv afterwards, sanford university professor offers insight to racial bias, interviewed by democratic congressman from florida. relevant guest hosts, reviewing oh -- top nonfiction authors
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about the latest work. >> welcome to today's segment, i'm representative val from florida, i'm honored to be here with dr. jennifer everhardt who has done fascinating work in the work of human behavior but today we will talk about your latest book which i love the title because i think it really conveys the areas that we really need to focus on and entitled bias, uncovering the hidden prejudice that shapes, what we see, think, and do. >> pleasure to be here. >> in your book you talk about what i would say, i will use the word how we are condition, i will use that word, if you will to respond to certain people and what you referred to as implicit
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bias. and you talk about how it can really show up in any profession i spent 27 years as law enforcement officer and honor to serve as chief of police and interested in how it can show up in that profession but you clearly show up how implicit bias can show up in any profession. >> right. >> could you take a moment just to talk a bit about your background because it's so impressive and if you'll kind of explain to us what you mean by implicit bias and how does implicit bias differ from what we all know and in many instances have experience just plain-ole racism. >> right, i'm a profferer at stanford university and i've studied race and inequality. i've spent a lot of work on racial bias in particular, a lot in the criminal justice space, but also in education, the
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workplace, and neighborhoods. i work looking at how race influences how people think about housing and how they evaluate homes. and yeah, it's something that you see everywhere. there's no real sort of area of life where it can't get under, you know, our skin and so to influence how we think and -- and how we make decisions and how we act. that's what the book is about. you know, follow that across all these different basics to try to understand how people grapple with race and asked about definitions, i guess, we can start there. >> yeah, kind of different, implicit bias is not necessarily the product of racism. >> right. right. >> not necessarily.
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>> right. >> i mean, to some extent it's a product of how brings are wired. we are wired to stereotype, we are wired to have the social groups that can get activated even without our awareness. that's what implicit bias is. thoughts and feelings about social groups that can influence decision-making and actions even when we are not aware of it. that's the definition which is different from people that are burning crossing, evil people or bad people, so we are talking about everyday people despite their intentions and despite their motivations may actually exhibit bias and allow that bias to actually affect decisions they make. >> you're saying implicit bias, it can affect all races, all
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people regardless of their socioeconomic status or necessarily who they are whereas racism is more kind of deliberate-learned behavior. >> yes. it's learned, it's conscious, yeah. a lot of people talk about that, old-fashion racism. implicit bias is something that you may not even know you have, something that you don't know is affecting how we are thinking even and even if we know what the stereotypes are about social groups, you don't always know that stereotypes are influencing how we are evaluating someone. >> you mentioned the -- what you refer today in the book as the association characterization and it was fascinating to me how you
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talked about how that influences what a person, how they experience things, by experience people, but you also mention that our brains are wired to categorize people and things. >> right. >> talk more about what you mean by that? >> well, we need to categorized in order to make sense of all lie in the world that are bombarding us. we have to figure out a way to organize it and to make it coherent so that we have some sense of control, so that we have a better idea, so what it is that's out there so we can make good decisions and we can have, it's almost like the brain can't handle everything that it's exposed to and so these sort of techniques that our
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brains use to deal with all of that information. so categorization is one of those things, we just don't categorize people, we categorize animals, we categorize furniture, we categorize plants and all sorts of things but that categorization allows us to engage in the world and the world becomes more coherent because of that categorization, but it's also, it's something that we do with people, right, so it's not just, you know, plants in other animals, it's social groups. when we categorize those social groups we develop the least about people that are in the category, you develop feelings about people who are in that category and those beliefs are called stereotypes and the feelings are called prejudice and together that's called bias.
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>> wow. that's pretty amazing, you also -- you write about what you referred to as the cringe-worthy expression, we are talking about characterization, the cringe-worthy expression of they all look alike. >> yes. >> now, as as i sit here and think about the term that identify heard before, my first thought to believe that anyone who would utilize that cringe-worthy expression they all look alike must be racist or bigot, but you say it can be a function of biology and exposure. >> yes, yes. >> what do you mean by that? >> well, you know, babies as young as 3 months of age are ready for showing preference, the faces of their own race.
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so -- >> 3 months old. >> something that start early and part of why that preference is shown has to do with what you're exposed to. if you're exposed faces of your own race, especially young race, that tends to happen, in interracial, faces are tuned up on the faces of your own group. because we live in segregated spaces, segregated neighborhoods, you don't come into contact as much with people of different race, so your brain understands and practices on processing faces of all of one type and gets really good at that at the expense of being able to process and recognizes faces of other faces and so we develop a diminished capacity. >> the phrase, they all look
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alike, how does that translate, if you will, into negative behavior, or bias or racism that would hurt. >> right. >> because i certainly understand a baby at 3 months old. >> right. >> we start associating with that. >> that's not a bad thing. >> right. >> how does it become something that's bad or lead to bad results, that kind of association. >> well, it's a precursor for bias, again, fundamental thing. that's how our brain is built to categorize but it's a precursor because once you are placed in that category and you can't actually distinguish one place from another in the category of outgroup members they become interchangeable and once they become interchangeable the beliefs that we have about people like that can get applied
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to all the people rather than in the category -- >> i think of really good example and i love the you use examples in the book to drive the book because it's very scientific and you never even think about unconscious bias having a scientific or biological kind of beginning origin. >> right. >> you used examples very well in the book and you talked about work with police department and you also talked about a situation where there was a problem with robbery. >> right, right. >> you the victims of those robberies were unable to no matter how long they were with the suspects, you know, what they were exposed to, they were just totally unable to identify the persons who robbed them. so that's exactly what you're talking about in terms of they
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all look alike. can you talk more about the oakland and that particular example? >> when i first got there, back in 2014, armed robberies and black teenagers were going into chinatown in oakland and they were robbing middle-aged chinese woman, they would snatch their purses from their arms and when the police tried, you know, look into the crimes and get information about who was it in all of that, the middle-aged women couldn't tell the offices who it was. even when they had a chance to see the face, they clearly saw the face, even when the police would go to ask questions about it and so forth, right after it happened, they couldn't tell you once that face disappeared who it was. so that was an issue and when
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they asked are young black teenagers, why do you go there, why are you focused on chinatown, they said, well, we go there because they can't tell us apart, they can't tell the brothers apart. that's why we go. so they knew that they could rob them at will and not be caught because these women couldn't id them. >> wow, even when -- i also read that there were certain training sessions to try to help women like that or others to become better at recognizing their attackers, what were the results. >> they would say pay attention to things that are distinctive. did he have degreed locks or did he have short hair, did he have a good tooth, all kinds of things like that but they would try to give them strategies to help them but they couldn't, they just couldn't do it and -- they couldn't get past the face
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even though they were motivated to and that was because they hadn't had practice at recognizing those faces, they were being exposed to something that they didn't know really how to process. they didn't know how to recognize those faces, they didn't know how to read them. i had to see an experience when i was young, i was 12 year's old. i moved to all-black neighborhood to all-white neighborhood and i was worried about how i would be accepted and so forth, but you know, the girls were so nice to me, they went out of their way to welcome me to the school and, you know, invite me to things and so forth, they knew i had problems, you know, recognizing -- like figuring out who was who, it had to do with the fact that i was new, i was mixing up their names but i absolutely could not remember their faces, i couldn't distinguish one face from another, obviously that really hindered my ability to make
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friends. [laughter] >> i thought it was kind of surprising that this concept, quote, they all look alike, while we might associate it with racism it's really worked both ways. you were trying to coming up with distinguishing marks of clothing to remember and these were not people you were afraid of. >> no. >> you feared in any way. >> no. >> these were your friends. >> people i would sit with them at lunch and then the next day i would try to think, is that the person or was that the person. it was really hard. why can be the do i this basic thing that anybody could do and all of a sudden lost my ability to distinguish one person from another, that had a name and there was a lot of scientific
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study, it's common, black whites, we were just talking about black asians, it's all over the group. it's with every group. one of those things, you know, they call it the other racist fact, it's something that's common but not insurmountable, eventually i was able to recognize the faces. >> because you we wanted to? >> not just because i wanted to but i was expose today those faces over and over again. as we moved to that neighborhood and exposed and my brain trying to catch up with any new environment. it did catch up and was able to recognize places. >> that was in a very welcoming environment, loving, if you will, environment, where they were friendly to you, they were kind to you. >> yes. >> that was your experience day
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in and day out. >> right. >> but in an experience where that's not the case. >> right. >> where you may not know the other group very well, you don't know their characteristics. >> right. >> you don't understand the culture, it could have a different, i would imagine, impact because you talk about the implicit bias can affect what you see and then, you know, you base what you see on what you do with your actions and thoughts? >> right, right. that's correct. that's exactly correct. >> something else you talk about in your chapter transition of bias and you talk about how -- you mentioned a little bit with babies, how children will pick up on the characteristics of their parents. they will love you if their parents love you, they will accept you if their parents accept you or shun you if parents do.
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that's within our circles that people will respond based on how people they know of respect treat you. >> exactly. >> i know there were studies done, you know, we know the disparities often times with african americans and how they are viewed and seen and there was a study looking at african americans actors and actresses and the thought that was maybe if we portray them, the women in oakland, if their experience with young black males, negative one, let's look at, if we portray black actors and black actresses in a positive way. >> right. >> let's show them on television as doctors and -- >> lawyers. >> police officers and, you know, then it may make a difference in how african americans are perceived in the community and society.
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did it make a difference? what were the results of those? >> yeah, that study was study and they were interested in black authors in powerful roles, having real positive effect on people who are watching the shows. the first thing they did was to take really popular shows, dramas, csi, gray's anatomy and those kinds of shows, they gave 10 second clips to look at of the people in the scenes and they would cut out the person that the people in the scene was looking at and either the person was black, black actor or a white actor, and they simply asked, they are showing, you know, the images of the people looking at the person that you can't see, right, they asked, do
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you think that they like this person, they asked him to describe how they imagine that person is being evaluated by them and the finding was when it was a black actor who was the target of these nonverbals, they were more negative nonverbal, they were, you know, could be like a frown, maybe subtle things. when they asked him why it is that they thought, you know, this person was being perceived more negatively they couldn't tell you. it's something that's subtle but they were picking up on it. they thought actors were treating black character negatively and the other thing about this, how this is, you know, what they call, you get this bias contagion.
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it was also the people who watch those shows and so when you, you know, look at people who are watching those shows, defining that when you are exposed to this negative behavior towards black person even though it's subtle, that actually increases your own implicit bias. so we are thinking sometimes, you know that okay, this is the answer, but, you know, the bias has a way of still sneakings -- sneaking in. >> i think it's pretty amazing, if you think about a person in any profession if their exposure as we've already talked about has been negative, negative, negative, and then but even in a very controlled situation with african americans playing very positive roles --
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>> yeah. >> you talked about how those who were watching the footage took out very -- >> what i would consider minor -- >> right. >> flaws if you will, maybe a frown on the face or certain expression that appeared to have been really glown -- blown up as opposed to seeing that person solely as african american playing positive role, doctor, police officer, teacher, or -- >> right, even young children pick up on this like you said, they look to adults to figure out how other people are seeing and how they should treat that person. you know, the study on that as well with fourth and fifth graders who i was shown a clip of person treated poorly and someone who was being treated well and -- and the fourth and fifth graders took on the attitudes of -- of the person who was treating that person well or was treating that person negatively, and so they are watching what we do to figure
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out what they should be and how they should act and who deserves good treatment and who deserves good treatment. >> wow. you know, i loved being a police officer, i did it for a lot of years and you point out -- you pointed out in your book that as we talk about some of the challenges with police community relations, you pointed out in your book that 99% of police encounters with citizens do not result and certainly the ones that result in deadly force we pay a lot of attention to as we should. >> right. >> police officers, it's a tough job. it could be a very dangerous job. >> yes. >> as we are talking about how people whether consciously or unconsciously are trying to decide what action are they
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going to take certainly i would think biases would certainly play a role in a job that's very dangerous and many times i think as you pointed out, police officers feel like the community that they are trying to protect and serve may not be on their side which i think exacerbate. >> yeah. >> how do you believe as you look at those situations, i know you've watched video that was available, the shooting, shooting that occurred. >> right. >> and -- and you went to visit
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a sister and her heard story about her brother. >> yeah. >> that she grew up with. since the binning when she went home and i know you personally experienced the fact, video in his shooting, you spent time with twin sister. >> right. you also studied shooting, how do you believe unconscious bias played a role in ultimately what happened in those cases. >> so i'm not, you know, what i
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try to look is isolate features in starting them in laboratory, so we don't know, you know, even when the finds say there's correlation and some negative outcome, we don't know how much race is driving that in particular or some other factors that are also correlating with race. yeah, so to do that, sort of take a situation and create, have the same situation as scientist we can prevent people with the case and we say, we want you to value the situation. .. ..
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>> @allows us to isolate race. now we are in a better position about the roles because their controlling everything. in any one case, it could've been because of location. >> there are lots of factors. so we do not really know. that is of value of science that you can step back and look at lots cases and look at how people are responding across the board, is more systematically, or give your example of some of the studies that have been done. there is a study that was conducted decades ago, by social psychologist named bert duncan. he was interested in how people
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read black versus white. so he had, he staged an argument there is a study participant and they thought there watching an argument take place between a black person in a white person. in the argument got heated and one shoved the other. offstage. so this is what we call a different set up for the study of various subjects and participants. what they found was when the aggressor who shoves a person was white see have a white person shoving a boppers the, about 17% of the people waive the action by the way aggressor is violent.
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now you have the same shoving and you flip it. you have a black person shoving a white person. 75% of participants say that action is violent. >> i remember reading about the study. when we talk about controlling the factors, size was the same, action was the same, the only difference was the face of the individual. >> there are more inclined to say the white person when he shoved a black person was fooling around, 42% of them said that. it's only about 6% of the people that tend to rise, the black person actions in that way. when he shoved the white person, only 6% state that is playing around. here's the difference, you could see the difference that reese brings there. >> how do you take the information that is clearly, no
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insinuating factors in that. this is not a situation in a community or neighborhood, this is a controlled situation that has been set up. how do you take that, what do you do with that information? if you are training and using that as a training tool, for any group of individuals. how do you take the information? what is it that you want the student if you will to understand about the scenario and walk away with. >> you want them to understand how race can play a role in how people respond and how they behave. you're presenting them with the situation that is identical but for race and i think being able to do that is the power of that, people understand it, they get,
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it was at this thing or that thing or the other thing, it seemed to be race, that causes them to pause and think about how race my payroll and all the other situations that we had thought about before. >> reese is still an issue in america that we still struggle. in terms of having open honest discussions about it. in a control situation like that, do you hear denial still, well it was not race even though that was only factor, do you still hear denial like it was not race. it's a way he moved his hand, lunged, do hear denial customer. >> sometimes i do, sometimes those denials might be valid and you have to go back and repeat the study and tighten up. and control the movement precisely and all that. sometimes that is good to hear because it allows us a social
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scientist to approach the study of this as more rigor, oftentimes, at some point if you keep doing the studies and use different techniques and you get the same results, you deposit think, maybe there is something here, the other thing i will say about that, part of why people might be resistant is because there is an underlying feeling that your calling them races. they get back to an earlier conversation about how we were designing. accepting his work, and five to think about myself as a person, that is going to be hard for me too do, i'm going to be resistant to. and maybe i am not going to -- maybe i'm not willing to accept that, maybe that is part of it. if we understood that even get
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people can have biased and influence how we are seeing things, that's a different story. then you can actually hear and you can take about how this might play out in your own life, discussions and actions that you're taking. >> do you think that is probably the main reason that people or e so fearful to discuss race. you see it on both sides. among the races. not just one, is it fear that you are going to label them if they question anyway honestly and openly express their fears or their beliefs or how they were raised or had they been influence, that they feel they are going to be labeled and when labeled in america it is tough to overcome. >> is one of the worst things you can call a person.
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it's a racist and they think that is what do yo what you sayf you point out that they behaved differently to this person versus person. you think it's based on race. people get really upset about that, it's sort of the character of the person, all of that. so i think what the science allows us to do is to step back from all that into actually look at it without accusation but we are looking at it to understand how this is operating in effectiveness with the goal of actually making things better with the core of understanding the conditions of what this is most likely to happen so we can avoid those conditions. that's one of the big values of science is that. >> you are opening chapter you
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start off talking about work with police officers, an early training sessions, when you first elected, overwhelmingly welcoming, i know this route. so you walking in arms are folded, it's like, i don't have the problem, maybe you do. >> stonefaced. >> i'm going to resist everything you have to offer to me. i have a tough job and whatever. so race is tough to talk about. >> law enforcement, every profession, we want better with the community, a strong safe community, but race is tough. but you use the story of your son, when you all were on a
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plane, you break the ice. i was grabbing for everything, i was trying to most -- [laughter] i wanted to run off the stage. [laughter] there was no way out. i told the story about my son everett who is five years old at the time and we were on the airplane and he was looking around on the plane and he was so excited to be on the plane and up in the air in seeing the clouds and he was checking it all out and he sees the sky on the plane and he says hey mommy back i look like daddy. i look at the guy and i'm telling you he looked nothing like my husband. nothing at all. and i look around and i noticed his only black guy on the plane
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and i thought, okay, you're going to get the talk. so this leads to the discussion we had earlier. i am thinking he thought all black people looked alike. i'm going to have to have a talk with him about that. what he said next, before i have a talk he looks up and he says i hope you guys don't rob the plate. >> that your baby, five years old. your son, the expert on all this. i know he was a little young but that is what he was thinking. and i said, i did not want to hear that, what mother would want to hear that. i look to him and i said, why would you say that, you know daddy would not rob a plane. he said yeah, i know. and i said why would you say that. and he looked at me and he had a really sad face, and he said i
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don't know why i said that. i don't know why i was thinking of. >> i think the answer -- we can learn so much from her children, out of the mouths of babes. i think the answer that he did not know, i think that can be transferred to every profession. >> yeah. >> they really do not know. because it's unconsciously, we get there in an unconscious way. >> you don't know where it came from,. >> short years. >> something happened where he said that but he did not understand it, he knew it was problematic, and somehow i responded, that's a good point number talking about how to talk
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about children about race. i did not ignore, i didn't pretend it didn't happen even though i wish they did not happen. i sat with him right then and had discussion about race. i wanted him to reflect in his words and what he said, i wanted him to ask himself, why am i thinking this, why am i saying this. that's our role as parents to help our children with us. >> i think it was, i'm not sure how i would've handled that, probably not as well as you. i think it was so important that you do not say don't say that. and of discussion. we have a tendency to do that because that's the easier way to deal with tough subjects and situations. you asked why did you say that. >> i asked why did you say that. the other thing, not only don't say don't say that, but you're not supposed to notice race.
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so they get from adults that this is a way to be a good person is to be colorblind. but a lot of research suggests otherwise. >> being colorblind in a world where everything is associated from color to death. if they see that, how can they be colorblind, when you teach your children not to see color you're also teaching them not to seek discrimination. that is a real problem. >> i think you are teaching them not to value who they are. your authentic self, just ignore it, right? because we don't want what we don't have, a colorblind society. what we want, that my color does not matter to you when you're making a decision about housing or education. >> or salary. >> or jobs or whether i'm hired
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or not. we do not want it to matter. that was such a profound lesson. in that conversation with her son. >> i will always remember. >> you always talk about them want to be a police training sessions that you are approached after one year sessions by young white male who had moved hear from turning m germany. he was talking about his own experiences while patrol. and how he is affected if you will, by what he hears over and over and over again on his police radio. can you talk a little bit about that. >> i've done things in lots of different places, being on the ground and hearing the stories, you really understand a lot more about what is happening and what officers are experiencing in
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isaiah training long ago and this person came up to me, he was from germany and i think it always been in the states for couple years, he told me that he could feel his mind shifting so he like to think about himself as being open, friendly and treat people wit as individuals. after being on patrol in hearing male black, male black, male black over the dispatch and radio, it started to work on him. he was starting to think, so these are the people who are committing violent crimes and these are the people i need to watch out for, then it became almost instinctual where he was see a black person and he would be watching her. injecting amount and making su
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sure. he started shooting every black person -- >> he was acting in a way that was on my care. they called him on it. it's a reflection. they're talking about it. they brought it to his attention and forced him to reckon with. he was worried about it. this job is taking this thing away from you, i used to think about myself as egalitarian. >> do you talk about the association of black and using that scenario and criminality? is that your experience, is all you here? >> that is all you see, what you
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are forced to make the pairing, with criminality, black crime, black crime, black crime over and over again. >> the only time that you hear that blacks are being lifted up is a criminal way. the only time you're hearing, there is though this person graduated from high school, your constant hearing, there is a robbery, burglary, theft, male black. these are the people who commit crime, these people are criminal. but the problem is, you have a pretty tiny percentage who commit crime even when you have racial disparity. but then you start to expand that to the whole category. it starts to bleed over and how
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your thinking about other people who have nothing to do with that criminal activity that's a problem, when it starts to expand, going back to the earlier discussion when we are talking about the middle-aged chinese women in chinatown when they are interchangeable, you cannot distinguish one from another, this category can take control of us. and then we start to treat people within that category in similar ways and associate them with his characteristic in this case criminality. you talk about, writing a book how race plays a part in almost everything, and you talk about the unfair bail system and how people who have money, regardless of the crime they're
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committed, if they have money they can get out but for people cannot. they spent a lot of time in jail, and overwhelmingly the people time in jail are of color. the study showed if you're detained, in jail pretrial, your case and the favorable for you. they are willing to lead to things they did not do and willing -- they just want to be out of there. >> of plea-bargaining contest, and totally being exonerated if you will. willing to take a plea bargain just so they can get out of
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jail. but to talk about the long-term effect you might have the money to pay your bill, and you take the plea bargain, public defenders because they're overworked and underpaid. they are overwhelmed. and so you take the plea-bargain. and you are living in that moment, talk about some of the long-term effects, that can follow you well beyond the day your release. >> as it can, give a criminal record now, and that apology everywhere and so you have a criminal record that could affect all kinds of things, your employment, your ability to get suited, your housing, an apology. and even research looking at the
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price of a criminal record in defining seeking employment and is a huge difference there for people who have criminal records versus those who don't, also a distance and call back going in for an interview where has an application for a job by race as well. >> even when everybody had a criminal record, there was a difference in who, if they were compact, who receive those calls. so white people with criminal records are more likely to get a call back in black people with criminal records. one study in the finding was white people with criminal records got about the same number of callbacks as blacks with no criminal record, both criminal record and race that is
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operating and when you put the two together it compels and can affect your life chances, it also affects people who are not involved in the situation. and to accept the plea-bargain and now your signed this label as a criminal, you said you're guilty. so that affects people, how strongly people associate with black crime generally. now your evidence for this legitimate association between blackness and crime you treated your freedom and it makes sense and think about your odds and all that. every person who pleads guilty it leads the racist guilty
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almost. it leads people to see blacks as criminals and blacks are disproportionately committing crimes. you can see how this is a system that is built up that is actually affecting how we think, it is affecting the public and their association that they are making with black people. >> i believe there 2 million people who are incarcerated in about 700,000 of them are released annually. and you have to think about, then what. could you talk a little bit -- are so many good things, can you talk a little bit about the prison university and some of your experiences with inmates
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and to prepare them for success in the future. yes, i was at san quentin state prison in california i worked there as a volunteer in instructor so i taught classes. >> another tough crowd right? [laughter] they really appreciated me. that's funny. i got there and was worried about being there, and not taught in the environment before, we didn't know how they would receive me or the information that i had to share, it was an incredible experience in their people there who try into the lives around and try to
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develop and train to learn and thinking about education as a way to improve, as far as an educator, i love that. it was just the opposite of being a tough crowd, but when i started there initially i was very nervous and just little things that set me off and make we nervous. in the book is given the example of any time the student moves a little bit, what is going on, someone stood up. and i don't know why they're standing up, he is approaching me. just my own body. >> ten out of ten probably under the circumstances would've reacted the way you did. the person was just turn to go to the bathroom.
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>> it helps us to see, to actually teach but my biased was getting in my way of that. at least initially i tell you i was nervous looking out the back window and what is going to happen. >> because of the progress you are all making. >> they would be more quiet, we cannot have an open dynamic discussion with the guard, so i went from wanting them to be there to not wanting them -- to wanting them to stay away. it was real, a real experience is an example of what we talked about the beginning, we are all
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vulnerable to bias. it is not something about being about person, what i was exposed to, and my understanding of what inmates were, what they were like, and from all this exposure, if it really spend that much time in prison, a lot of that comes from television in the movies, and the narratives about who these people are, and seeing them as inherently bad. i do think why imagine that we. >> you also write about implicit bias versus exclusive bias. you are from charlottesville and the whole attitude there which we spoke about racist and racist attitudes and behavior.
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you also mentioned how the federal government, sometimes it think the unintended consequences but you talk about how the problems that we face in this area are compounded by legislation, it might be segregation of neighborhood, housing, school, other institutions, and how that helps to compound the problem that we're discussing today. doctor everhart, you say if were going to deal with implicit bi bias, we've got to look in the rear. every individual has a responsibility. in the time that we have had, we talked about so many things, so many examples of implicit bias, how do we do? what is the answer. what do we do, where do we go
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from here if were all going to get better, we take a look in the mirror, what would you suggest or recommend that we start doing regardless of the profession that we are in to be a fair america if you will. >> there are ways to manage it and there are a lot of studies on this. in the social psychologist looking at this. what are the conditions under which bias is most likely to be triggered. how do you manage that and how you be mindful of the situations so you can understand insulting stand. this is one of the areas where you are more likely to have biased get triggered when you're having to make a decision really quickly when you have to think fast, go on automatic pilot and
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basing our decisions and everything on how what we've learned before or what seems to be associated -- you're not really being thoughtful about it. when you're in that situation, biased is more likely to get triggered and affect our decisions and influence and behavior. you want to slowed things down, they'll be a deer. were more likely to have our biases to merchant when we filter and, fearful interest. >> some situations capturing, if you're feeling threatened and fearful and have to make a decision quickly. you can be more vulnerable to racial bias in the situation than if you had time to think it through. before i got to open california,
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i'm working there with the police department with the reform effort. they changed their foot pursuit policy. they were finding that there were a lot of people being hurt and sometimes it was associated with foot chase and so they chase the policy, they do not allow officers to please people into enclosed dark spaces where they would lucite of the person. they would say rather than chasing the person into the situation, we want you to step back and set up a perimeter and call for backup and their time and resources you slowed down to work it out. they found that just taking the foot pursuit policy, they used to have 89 officer involved shooting the year. now they only have eight officer involved shootings. only eight in the last five
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years. it's a huge difference and not just officer involved shootings but even people getting hurt. but these are also the conditions with the formal policy that would promote bias. you're afraid, it's dark, it's an ambiguous situation with the person that is starting, you feel fearful, not a good recipe for the best decision-making. if you can, you want to step back and slowed down. that's an example of how we can think about the science applied to the real situations that matter part of it. >> doctor everhart i've so enjoyed our conversation. just congratulations to you on the outstanding work you are
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doing. and congratulations on your book, biased, uncovering the hidden prejudice that shapes what we see, think and do. thank you so much. >> i appreciated thank you. [no audio] >> this and oliver "after words" programs are available at podcast and can be viewed on a website . . . >> hi everybody. i'm glad to see you, thank you. thank you so much for coming to tonight's og


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