tv The Communicators Andy Purdy Huawei CSPAN May 13, 2019 8:02pm-8:35pm EDT
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your own mind. >> this week on the committee gators we want to introduce you to the chief security officer of huawei technologies usa and what is our role in tale? >> guest: primarily it's an integral role and i chair a u.s. wide committee for privacy that is similar to the one we have globally for you have representatives of each business group, it, human relation services et cetera that meets quarterly to manage the requirements for privacy to make sure we are meeting statutory, regulatory, customer requirements and our own internal policies so we can manage risk from a cyber security fiber perspective. i worked my government relations and public relations people to talk with customers and stakeholders about issues and try to drive the conversation forward.
>> host: give us a snapshot of huawei. >> guest: is a company with over 180,000 people around the world about 30% of our products come from huawei and about 32% of the components of our products come from the united states and about $11 billion a year. we are an employee owned company and we have, i think, 80000 people involved in r&b and spent $15 billion in r&d last year which one the most important factors or advantages of being private you don't worry about the quarterly numbers but we can invest in the long-term and that's what we are doing. our people are motivated by two things, want to be involved in something that is very interesting and important and provide welfare for our families and we are doing all of those. >> host: who is the founder? >> guest: [inaudible] >> host: what is his background? >> guest: he was an engineer and i'm not an expert but he was a civil engineer with people's
liberation army many years ago and moved from his own company with four, five others in a few thousand dollars and had a spectacular growth, not unprecedented in terms of other companies from the late '80s such as cisco they had dramatic is also but he has always incentivize people to produce and to innovate and to be customer centric. that is the primary focus of huawei used to be customer centric to understand their needs and potentials and help me those is not to get every dollar of profit out of every particular contract to take a long view and of our customers make money and their customers make money we are all working well together for a common advantage. >> host: do any of us in this room have a huawei product in our hand or in our phones or anything? >> guest: i have a huawei phone in the other room but i don't so. i don't think so.
>> host: why is huawei considered a threat to national security here in the u.s.? >> guest: is a completed issue. there is a geopolitical overlay of the issues related to huawei and they are steeped in ever since the fall of the soviet union the rise of china economically and militarily in the world and the reach of china through the belt and wrote initiatives to africa and around the world and advances in technology and the advances in technology by china excuse me and some of the issues government has with china have been a major concern that some of which are the subject of the trade talks and may have been deferred to the future conversations so u.s. is not safe in cyberspace and the u.s. looks at things from a risk perspective, whether national security or other risks and from a national security perspective they don't just look at companies or countries who are hostile to us from a national security perspective and look at potential.
does a country have the opportunity capabilities, if they turn against the united states, to cause us great harm and so it is that kind of a risk-based perspective that is affecting the perspective of the u.s. toward huawei and much of our country focus more than a company focused. >> host: let's bring drew fitzgerald of wall street journal into this conversation. he covers telecom and technolo technology. >> guest: thank you for having me. i'm curious that there have been rules proposed and was enacted in the u.s. that have essentially banned huawei equipment from being involved in most telecom networks, wireless in the u.s. what is the status of huawei business operations in america now? >> guest: we have 1500 employees in the united states and a strong r&d presence and for just
about $11 billion in u.s. components last year. our business groups and enterprise and our consumer business we are maintaining our revenues at present and prohibitions in national defense authorization act kick in in august of 2019 and those are focused on government contracts which we do not and are not pursuing and government contractors and so there may be a greater potential impact going forward. we believe that in the end the united states will have the kinds of measures in cyberspace that will make us a whole lot more secure. when we get to the point we think we will be allowed to compete on a level playing field but in the meantime our biggest concern is probably our tier three wireless customers that serve rural america. we believe our technologies and services we provide them are
essential to farmers in schools and citizens and companies in the rural parts of the united states as we hope we can maintain that service to serve those people. >> guest: and you continue to do business with us tomorrow, rural providers in the united states? >> guest: yes, 40 of those customers yes. >> guest: around the world there's been a lot of focus on flaws that are been found in code or vulnerabilities in certain huawei equipment like italy and the uk. is it possible to secure huawei devices and networks that run off them or is that a pipe dream? >> guest: it is impossible to illuminate all risk, whether 5g or enterprises or whatever but it's impossible to illuminate all vulnerabilities and produc products. one of the advantages we have and i see it as an advantage that we are one of the most examined in value-added companies in the world so the flaws we have such as the uk oversight board reveals that
those are the kinds of things we can improve as part of that continually improve the process and that you think we think that will make america safer in cyberspace they were. those are risk mitigation measures looking for those phone abilities and protecting the threats that exist out there we need to protect against those risks from all vendors and all the major vendors have major operations in china so there's a concern about china government we need to make sure we protect against all those threats. >> guest: how does that work? how did they examine millions of lines of code, very complex equipment, some of which involve intellectual property that belongs to huawei? >> guest: there are different programs in different parts of the world so we have the uk program where we make our source code available for review under oversight by the government and in close collaboration with the carriers including evaluating the updates and programs in canada that the canadian government designed to empathize
but you see a situation where private companies addressing risk in mexico where we supply major equipment to att down there and they are not the pressure to remove argument because att is one best companies in the world about risk mitigation. we are setting up program in germany working closely with the country of germany and with our security service to come up with measures and mechanisms that make sense for understanding risk, addressing risk, testing the products against international standards they want to put in a program that will address the risk from all vendors. we have another model in brussels i was recently part of it opening of it is. the center in early march and we let companies, customers and governments come in when they bring third-party experts and evaluate our code and we think that kind of external evaluation is a real plus and like to see other competitors get the benefits of that as well. >> host: what is your take on the uk defense minister being fired or related to a huawei
issue? >> guest: i don't know about the details and i understand that there was an allegation that he had leaked information about preliminary discussions within the uk government which apparently he describes but what i see that as a larger picture. i was in warsaw couple months ago when vice president pens and secretary of state pompeo, two great americans, or about to come over and i was there when they were there but it's amazing the pushback by our closest allies in the uk but germany and other companies in europe and around the world that basically say you have not given us evidence of cyber skirting wrongdoing by huawei and we believe there are effective risk mitigation measures that can be used and if we can use those that we can get the benefits of the technology and most of portly, benefits of having competition in this space. we believe competition is
essential for the technology works and when you look -- as we mentioned before, the u.s. is not safe from a cyber skirting perspective so what does the u.s. do? special risk mitigation programs and the fact for our competitors to allow them -- they have diminished presence in china including the joint venture with shanghai bell owned by the china government. somehow with motivation matters in place satisfy u.s. government and it does not present risk to the united states. we just want to talk with you at government let's talk about risk mitigation measures that may work in the u.s. so we can ride assurance and his parents. >> host: you come from a federal background -- don't you? >> guest: yes, federal prosecutor and lawyer for a long time and joined the bush on the richard clark which drafted the national strategy to secure cyberspace moved on to the department of homeland security back in 2003 when we're setting up service for the effort and i later led the u.s. cyber
security effort from dhs. >> host: did it take a bit of research on your part to say yes i trust huawei before you joined? >> guest: i don't trust anybody. frankly, the two-part role that when i was greeted by my global boss who had been cio of the uk government and on the part about reaching out that we would be advocates for paper cyberspace. i would be able to be and have been able to be an advocate for a safer american cyberspace. i'm not a defender of huawei but basically saying we need the best technology and compete and it's critically important that we address the risk. we believe risk mitigation measures never been told that to say or what i can say typically when you look at the bigger picture huawei we don't speak through the china government and they don't speak for us. we want to talk with u.s. government and believe that ways can be found to mitigate risk. >> host: i'm sure you're
familiar with this gentleman, the sis was recently on this program in the seat and want to play a little bit of video of what he had to say about huawei. >> huawei wants to get into your court network and the chinese government subsidizes them to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars to do that. what i usually of people is to think chinese like your cuisine? why do you think they're paying hundreds of millions of dollars to get into your own network? >> host: any response? >> guest: i miss the first part, hundreds of millions to get into our phone -- >> host: and the fact that huawei is subsidized by the government. >> guest: no evidence that there subsidized by the chinese government. typical of the kind of allegations with no basis in fact but assumptions yes, but no basis in fact with our annual
report reports each year less than 2% of revenue comes from various kinds of china government funding and other competitive companies from around the world to participate many kinds of grants so it's not true that we are getting substantial funds on the china government. >> host: let's bring drew but yield back into the conversation. >> guest: all go back to the risk mitigation you mentioned earlier because a complaint or assertion that the u.s. government has made whether right or wrong has been even if you were to review all the code and practices of some of their competitors like nokia and ericsson at those at the end of the day they don't always answer to their governments but are docile that are from there to the u.s. government than china often is as an adversary. what was the company's response to that? >> guest: several things you can do but first of all let me mention the scale of operations that take place in china by gnocchi, ericsson and even cisco
and in the case of no kia active involvement in the chinese government in the joint venture with no kia to the extent that geographic access presents risk the u.s. government has found ways to address that risk in the i saw a comment to the principal deputy of the director of national intelligence recently about two issues. one has to do with backdoors which he said they could test for any other has to do with customer data. there are mechanisms to address the risk and the assumption is that because our equipment in the network we have access to all the information but we are not trying to sell them to the core but we want to sell into the rear access. the fact is there are strict requirements when we go to service the customer and there's an assumption that the huawei network is attached to the customer network and it's not for them, we are mechanisms in all subject to explicit
permission of the customer every time, especially when we think of laptops with virtual private clouds to access the customer networks and the ability for them to record every keystroke logged by that that touches the customer network. we are open -- what are some additional measures that can be done to make sure that data is protected but the assumptions are wrong and the fact is the other part is people talk like the equivalent providers have the risk but we have our part of the risk but the carriers and you saw chairman pai of the fcc reference the fact that art network operator own the risk control the network and monitor the inbound, outbound internal traffic for activities. yes, they have known what they cover their conduct very strict plus they can segment the network so that if we have to
assume the bad guys will not get in because you can't eliminate all risk you when something bad happens you limit the cascade and control the impact so the fact is that where something comes from the holos and ported that when you take the attitude that when a foreign company buys an american company. u.s. government requires risk mitigation plan overseen by committee of government agencies to guarantee the risk of improper or underemployed. we believe that the way to go to i want to go back to what you mentioned the network where whoever weather cable company or cell phone company can see almost all the traffic that runs across the network and one thing interesting about huawei is a pre- much make every product of their is the core of 5g network, not a market that wants to play in. >> we like to play in all targets but from limiting the
risk we have made the choice and so for example, uk government recently announced me to look at something that we would not be in the core of for example the british telecom network that was agreed to implant and that was the way it is. really, the decision between core as the standards develop and is a move toward the full rollout of 5g there would be the viral places in cyberspace that are particularly strong authentication requirement so it's much less important issue of core versus non-core than it is effective and transparent risk mitigation and we love to discuss this. >> guest: let me ask you in the last quarterly report from huawei the company said it shipped a great deal of base stations, using this new technology and is doing business with a number of different providers and what is the status of that? where they been shipped and who
are the first companies to use it equipment? >> guest: i'm not sure i can reconstruct the business elements of 30, 40000 base stations that we sold and i'm not on the business side and some of the most widely publicized early adopters for 5g and i think there's been tremendous contracts that are public and i don't have the specifics but it is interesting that the first-quarter revenues were up to 9% and you look at last year 2018 look at the cycle for carrier networks and we were in the trough last year as we move up toward the implement of it so exciting good things in the future. >> host: are we and future of habit separate by the networks was sponsored by china and one based in the u.s.? >> guest: i don't think so. it's interesting that i expect the u.s. will do with the uk is
doing which is has not done this much publicity. i expect to help manage risk and to promote resiliency which is fundamental and we have to make sure our networks are up and running to be much more important we fully deploy 5g and for the last 15 years service very people at the credit but have not carried it because not many people care about data breaches but we will be independent in a serious way on the guys vertical industries sectors and government services and what the u.s. wants and with the private comedies will do have diversity of supplier so hopefully we'll get to be multiple suppliers for radio access and that helps promote resiliency and helps reduce ri risk. >> host: one of the fears and this is not a newfound fear because huawei has been talked about this country for years as a potential threat that we saw in sri lanka the internet was essentially shut down on the island and thought in egypt years ago during the spring is there a potential that huawei
could shut down people who have huawei products? >> guest: look at the news series and last six months, 12 months of major outages of occurred around the world with our competitors and providers. the issue of availability of the services trying to promote greater really a lengthy and promote clear standards and an ability for the major carriers to make the meet the needs of the companies are people is incredibly important. fact is we don't have access like the carriers do for the ability to shut down. they theoretically -- we don't control the products after they are in the networks but from a national security perspective from the perspective of well-being of the united states we have to make sure the carriers are on board and make sure the protections are relative risk from the vendors and that is what will help us make sure we can maintain the services we will depend on even more than we do today.
>> i will ask about interoperability because ultimately in many countries there are most companies are not going to rely on one single supplier for all their equipment. huawei is involved in a lot of the involvement of technical specifications for 5g that everyone will use. there have been some complaints that carriers that those technical standards can be capable and make it harder for company that wants for the european or other east asian providers to switch from huawei. is there going to be the ability of the company that wants to switch providers away from huawei will they have the ability to do that? >> guest: one of the most operating promises of the impressive 5g standards that have been his interoperability -- it is critical across the board so no, the operators have to hold in
the vendors accountable to meet the standards that will require interoperability as well as requiring quality and security requirements so that will not be an issue. friendly, i like to see the united states put more money into getting participation and more of the international duties and the government funds that are not involved in activities as much and love to see the u.s. have greater visibility into what are the standards will be developed and what are the most important threats that will be addressed by the standards? when you look at 5g there are significant security enhancements that are being added to make us all safer in the u.s. and our allies wayne and it would be a great thing? >> guest: let me ask you about the ongoing civil criminal cases that are happening against huawei in the u.s. and the cfo was arrested in canada earlier
this year is she going to appear before a u.s. judge and if so, what you expect out of that? >> guest: i think there is an appearance tomorrow. in the u.s. or canada? is a former federal prosecutor i have an inkling of how much they the site people involved in cases talking about the cases so i will respectfully defer to others about those two cases. >> host: do you think than on a hypothetical level this was a political move or a trade positioning move? >> guest: there is a context for everything. i'm a believer in the criminal justice system in canada and i have confidence that the proceedings will be based on proceedings will be based on the law and whatever the correct determination will take place and i do know the process can be fairly time-consuming so it may take longer then everyone would
like. >> host: ultra talks are going on between u.s. and china what role do you see huawei having in those three talks of any? >> guest: i don't see any role frankly. as i mentioned before there has been some. >> elation about huawei being the subject of talks or parallel talks we wanted to talk with you government in china does not speak for us we don't speak to china and we have found just in talks in prague last week worth 30 countries in the u.s. all got together talking about standards when the operators and governments and vendors come together to talk about what is necessary to understand risk and manage it will be better off in the end. >> guest: was huawei invited to that event in prague? any presented in their? >> guest: i know my boss was there.
there was part of the comments that was open and i believe there were breakout sessions one afternoon and one morning that have generated the remarks from the chairman of the proceedings that they are encouraging the various countries involved in the eu in general to try to incorporate those into their requirements for food approaches and how to monitor the work they do. >> guest: especially in europe use officials for this event in prague and earlier in your gone to many countries and visited their counterparts essentially told him not to buy clement from huawei's that have an effect on the company's business from the world? >> guest: i don't think so. i've heard comments by some of the officials of my company think the publicity has been a good thing i'm not going to go there and frankly as an american i feel bad by the harsh response that our allies have generally given and i think the united
states is the last great bulwark of freedom and protecting human rights so we have a special role in the world so it is saddens me that we can't discuss these issues about how to address risk. clearly, our allies are most of them want to talk about true risk irrigation measures that provide assurance and conspiracy and that's what we like to do. >> host: given your cyber security background and dhs background what do you think on a general level of are some of the cyber security threats here in the u.s.? >> i think they're pretty much everywhere. one of the biggest problems is a lack of commitment and leadership around cyber security. in the last year or 18 months we've seen great efforts by department of homeland security but the leadership to make sure we provide the funding necessary
to fund the efforts against the election tampering to help come up with requirements for 5g into help create greater visibility as to what the leaders of american companies, particularly public traded companies with their due diligence and fiduciary care and the fundamental things can be done we've got to get more action and we need goals, objectives, goals and milestones to track progress and know when they are success. we need strict oversight by congress and we've got a long way to go to improve in those areas. >> host: one thing we have not said is that huawei is not second largest manufacturers of smart phones in the world behind him some. >> guest: and i was a u.s. government in early 2018 apparently the pressure on at&t and verizon, not the carrier of the phone because of security concerns. all i would ask is that there are concerning security concerns
that operate on the android platform is trying to raise the requirements for all android phones to make it safer. let's focus on the issues and make us all safer. >> host: andy purdy is the chies telecom technology for "the wall street journal". gentlemen, thank you. also want to note that this program and all community programs are available as podcasts. >> want to be with simply three giant networks in the government supported service called pbs. then, in 1979 small network with an unusual name rolled out a big idea. let viewers decide all on their own but was important to them. c-span opened the doors for washington policymaking for all to see bring you unfiltered content from congress and beyond and in the age of power to the people this was true people power. in the 40 years since the last case escape has changed and no
monolithic media, broadcasting has given way to narrow casting, youtube stars are a thing. c-span's big idea is more relevant today than ever. no government money support c-span and its nonpartisan coverage washington is funded as a public service by your cable or satellite provider. on television in the mine c-span is your unfiltered view of government. you can make up your own mind. >> c-span's washington journal live every day with news about the issues that impact you. coming up tuesday morning. susan be sure to watch c-span's
>> head of the u.s. border patrol joins other immigration officials to testify on the situation at the u.s. southern border. the rest about child separation asylum-seekers and military and challenges. the senate judiciary sub committee hearing is just over 2.5 hours and. >> good afternoon. welcome. i apologize that our voting is delayed another thing about being in the senate. you do have to vote. it's not optional. i want to begin by thanking each of our witnesses for being with us today. we know how difficult your jobs are and they are even more challenging with recent developments on the border and i want to thank you for being ll