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tv   FCC Commissioners O Rielly and Rosenworcel on 5G Technology at New America  CSPAN  June 4, 2019 5:07am-7:07am EDT

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[inaudible conversations] welcome to new america with a policy forum accelerating 5g for all americans. i direct the wireless feature program here at new america as
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part of the open technology institute and they see quite a few familiar faces so i will talk about this new exciting wireless environment we are in the process of creating right now. the race to 5g is increasingly the number one policy priority at the sec. and to influence others as well for example, president trump calls the race the economic imperative but not using huawei citing security of the 5g networks and the devices that will connect everything in our society. but the 5g wireless networks
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would be characterized in general so with those gigabit fast speeds the delay between less than five seconds and the ability to connect a much larger number in a small area everything in your home or office from appliances to your cars so this is the real game changer. we are here today from the nexgen wi-fi networks with the same 5g capabilities. and the ability look at those prices and those that our
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mission-critical. it is an essential complement of the 4g networks. this is a spectrum crisis that never occurred despite the wireless data. most consumers don't even write realize 70 or 80 percent of the mobile data traffic going over smart phones and tablets never touch mobile carrier networks at all or spectrum. most uses wi-fi to go a short distance on a shared spectrum that most homes and businesses buy from the cable company or a wireless internet service provider in small-town or rural areas but essential to
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today's wireless ecosystem in fact, nexgen wi-fi will use those services more rapidly available far more affordable not just the cities in inner suburbs but because those are massively expensive to deploy they will not be available outside of urban or high-traffic areas for many years. and then to upgrade in any home or business as more than 80 million cable subscribers already do today. so nexgen wi-fi can bring this capabilities more quickly to urban or suburban or rural areas.
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there is a big if with giving access with unlicensed spectrum so today you hear why the fcc's efforts to open more unlicensed spectrum across the entire band is key to unlocking the potential with the most equitable 5g wireless networks. so next up we have an opening presentation with a clear picture of this trend.
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and then with a big leap and then that will be then i will introduce momentarily and then the commissioners will join me for fireside chat and then industry experts with public spaces to be included in our discussion. so along with your questions and comments so at this time
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let me make sure bj is right here. . >> and also we are catching up with each other. then to start us off is the vice president for wireless communications conductivity
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where he is responsible for the wi-fi at gn sf products in one of the world's wi-fi chip maker so they make the stuff that we need so now i will turn it over to bj. >> thank you make all. . >> hold on for a moment. are trying to get my presentation going.
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. >> so i will just get going it's a pleasure for me to be here with the next generation wireless for the 5g services. and more recently we do have a footprint and wireless space and also have wi-fi with gps and so on. so that brings me to the topic
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of the day the role of y-letter pat one - - wi-fi and 5g. and then to celebrate 20 years of wi-fi. and it has over the years marked itself.
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and with basic internet access but then with a lot more video consumption but also with the due class. but then to take that head on so to increase coverage and also with the video consumption. making it possible only through wi-fi. with the next generation to
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call them 5g services. but not only with e-mail and video but a broad range of many more users and so much that your wireless needs are actually on wi-fi. and to be met by wi-fi but yet with all the covers that have
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been happened in those that have been published on 5g the question comes up whether it would decline. semi resounding answer is no. it cannot. so let me use that context to explain and that in light of everything that you have heard. . . . . to have higher ds being able to support a whole
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number of devices in a very smart area. it's what the consumers want to have. the high mobility in cars and also the need for more energy sufficiency. by using different maps this is only part of the picture. the good news is that
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definitions of propagates differently. you have wireless channels with higher frequencies. it's a question of whether it is even a possibility. there are different frequency
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bands but it exists wi-fi provides you with a mechanism it doesn't necessarily a similar event. it creates a complement for everything that is being talked about in the context something you would question whether they are being defined. if it is ubiquitous. as it turns out it's definitely
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made a lot of this for indoor. let's take a few examples. hi speeds. high-speed it's possible because of how it is defined and it's fundamentally different design. it really enables those that are critical and with higher capacity and more coverage all of which come from the fundamental redesign.
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this is how we see the services everyone is talking about that are complementary to each other and what is happening in the industry is the ability thereby creating that continuous user experience for everybody. the summary is they will get access to the services. that's an opportunity to go together so at the same time for
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an outdoor indoor complement they are going to be on wifi. if you look at these two technologies in tandem together with one another so what's next? as we move from where we are today to a going forward basis we are looking at it doesn't describe the benefits of a couple of slides here so again with six gigahertz and once again from the bottom up we are able to realize 160 megahertz as it becomes available and there's
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also the cost of the scheduled traffic where they are able to service all of the devices that operate in the efficient use of the spectrum even more efficient use of the spectrum than the 2.4 or five today. 160 megahertz as the stability that wifi offers for today a lot of the customers and a lot of the people are getting the stability they want with better throughput across the enterpri enterprise. 160 megahertz on top of that enabled those consumers to have a wide bandwidth.
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this can be deployed both in apartments and single family homes. it's been some hundred 60 megahertz. it isn't really used as much as we would like with 106 megahertz then but it offers a 760 megahertz channels to capitalize on the goodness that brings to all of you.
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with six gigahertz you see the legacy devices but it's just going to be the new devices with all multiuser communication and it's that much more efficient. it will also be the most efficient technology as it is substantially reduced and goes back and the devices communicate in a much lower and much more
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effective power level so this will be the most efficient yet. as a result if you look at the key performance indicators at 2.4, 2.5 m. 2.6 we do get double or triple or more in the capacity and average rate as we go from five k. to six gigahertz it is going to be going from five to six k.. so then if you stand back and look at the cases.
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>> bastardized into a little more detailed everybody is talking about aar and most of the devices today are cable to the computing device that is to generate all of the content, but
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if we can get enough bandwidth and enough capacity at short range it can translate to a wireless device that would be very appetizing for a section of the future consumers. there are other cases such as vehicular entertainment for this class of device the other things specifically for the low-power and type of devices. if we can guarantee one to 1.5 gigahertz up to a range of 7 meters but that effectively means is we are getting the giga bits across the homes of the single-family dwelling but all
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of that and i turn to our friends at cisco all of that you can see that even in this era we expect more than 70% of the data to actually go through wifi. that isn't going to change. if anything is going to try and in 2022 it says we are going to have 80% of the data being met by wifi soup all of a sudden there's already going to be a critical part of the future, critical part of your wireless life and critical part of the five g. data. with that, i would like to
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conclude by talk saying that in order for us to fully unlock the benefits especially in this era with six gigahertz as is the next step for us as they said that is very critical for the services. we will bring up the commissioners to join me up he
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here. thanks for doing this. i love it when these two are together because they are a dynamic duo. i meant to mention this at the top m. not going to read through everybody's biography is not only because you are familiar especially with these two but i did want to mention they have a few characteristic things in common both of long experience on the fcc and first confirmed in 2012 and commissioner o'reilly in 2013 they both were deeply involved in the issues on the licensed spectrum and before
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they joined they were both currently the champions and government for this vision i think you saw for more licensed and unlicensed spectrum for a very ecosystem. we want to keep this to 30 minutes so first of all, we heard wifi today is already critical to connectivity and affordability carrying 70 to 80% of global data traffic over smart phones and other mobile devices. in the presentation do you see wifi continuing to play a key
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role in the wireless ecosystem or other suggestions that a mobile carrier what sort of eliminates the need? the last many years as a musician that competes with licensed spectrum and you will see much more complement three rules that will intertwined very smoothly and we are actually trying to find the word used here to switch between the two but the communications so i'm excited about five g. and the combination of them together that will be beneficial for consumers.
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there is data that says in the next four years it would contribute more than $3.5 trillion worth of economic activity globally and a million new jobs. we showed seized out and make sure that it continues. and it's not just about numbers. i think that this has been the place for innovation. it's in the dna and that's because there are low barriers to entry and it is a perfect sandbox for experimentation. that kind of innovation in the skies is something we want to continue to grow. >> that is a great point. i often lost sight of this what was once considered junk.
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>> they were the pieces nobody knew what to do with. look what an incredible economy is created. we've got to make sure that it continues. >> you've been reading champions of wifi in the licensed spectrum that fuels it for many years before for some of the cases when you look forward with some of the cases and benefits of wifi but particularly excited you were motivated you to push this to market? >> i am excited about the innovation of's when we connect a lot of our industrial equipment. i feel we talk about the internet of things and my toaster talking to my refrigerator and obviously that isn't interesting to me. what is interesting is if we grow the collectivity when it comes to industrial equipment we can improve worker safety and
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use our scarce resources in the world around us more efficiently and effectively and i think that's going to have broader economic and environmental consequences we should all embrace. >> i would add to that the productivity. it would really increase. it is the congestion in a room such as this were talking about the number of devices when you go from one phone or laptop and now i've got like seven myself and my daughter's got one and my wife has five set handle all of that at the same time, that's what it's built to do an address for the speed and productivity and functionality whether it is a small household or enterprise. what is exciting is providing the throughput we need going forward, and i think that is
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what this is going to be able to do. >> okay. great. as you just heard, the standard is finalized and ready for use. it took me years not to be confused. >> now they changed the name now but you figured it out. >> i know. [laughter] wifi six is what they want us to call it. i've joked that it is a recipe for the capabilities for every home, does this and then you. how do you explain to your colleagues and other wide
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spectrum that we already had seemed to be quite a bit, why is that not adequate to keep pace? >> right now we've got about 9 billion devices connected using wifi that in the next few years we will have billions and billions more, so how do we prepare for that? the need to do two things, first we need more spectrum and second we need wide channels within the spectrum so we can have superhighways to really take advantage of the innovation. >> i don't think i have a hard job convincing those on the policymaking side of the need for the spectrum and for additional band for unlicensed service. that ship has sailed in a good
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way it is going to happen it's just a matter of how and where we go through the process and that is a tough job that we have we are supposed to do and it's just the mechanics of making it happen. >> i hope all of our colleagues agree that we need more wifi. the question becomes where are we going to be able to identify the spectrum and how soon can we do it. >> that is a good segue of its talk othatspoke of the particuls that can meet this need first to 5.9 gigahertz that represents 75 megahertz that the commission set aside 20 years ago the particular use for intelligent transportation services but which lies mostly fellow today. and the end of the obama administration the department of
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transportation had noticed a proposal to mandate every new vehicle they have a certain type of radio on board that would communicate for safety signali signaling. the mandate isn't happening and even the standard seems to be slipping away so are we going to see the fresh look notice of rulemaking that you have been urging, now that nothing is happening at 9.5 gigahertz does the commission have an opportunity to revisit the issue next >> my record is pretty clear on the topic that i've learned being in the majority and minority it's decided by the chair man so we will see what the chair man decides to do in
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this space in the near future and i can predict that. that's what he gets to do. >> we've written about this extensively the last several years and i think we've both pointed out decades ago now we set aside a spectrum for the future of intelligent transportation, but it turns out that the fcc wasn't so great at predicting how auto safety would evolve because 20 years after they were satisfied we have a few cars on the road that have dedicated short-range services demand for auto safety of the 260 million cars on u.s. roadways. so it is totally appropriate and reasonable to not strand or ideas from two decades ago. it's also appropriate and reasonable to take a fresh look at this and consider how we can
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make smarter use of the airwaves right now. we've had some discussion for some time about doing that and i hope that the agency hasn't lost its nerve. we should move ahead and do this. it's been 20 years and the demand for wifi and updated policies are real. >> for those of you not following this particular debate closely we should get the chair man his due. he announced just last week in a speech at wifi now that the commission would be putting out this fresh look notice although he then pulled it back after the transportation asked for a brief reprieve 30 days. we are not sure why, but there is a delay until we see it. >> i think we should find a way to speed up and not slow down.
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it's a long time since we've had these and it merits a fresh look and i hope we can do that as soon as possible. >> when the notice comes out, should they be proposing a specific change such as looking at other bands where the vehicle to vehicle safety could potentially move or segment which may be a second-best option there've been proposals to use the lower half of the band and for safety to have exclusive use of the top of seems that there's reasons not to consider whether consumers can get a win-win by having safety in a different place that wouldn't be sandwiched by wifi above and below it.
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>> what is interesting about the new safety technologies as they are cellular technologies that have coexisted with wifi for a long time so i have some optimism we can find a way forward. i hope they do so. >> the chairman talked about having a very broad examination of the issue and i think that this thoughtful and we can examine the different ideas put forward. i'm wondering a lot of the safety features that were envisioned many years ago they were done elsewhere. we can take them off the list and say what are we really focused on.
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for more than two years the commissioners joined me when we released a report on this band two or three years ago and among the many findings were the companies at the cutting edge of the vehicles that have no interest in this type of signaling because of other means that they thought were on the trajectory and that is why i mentioned the mandate earlier. it takes 15 years for the fleet to turnover so we won't even know if it would work until the vast majority of the vehicles have it.
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the dot has declined to mandate a standard for vehicle to vehicle safety communications, and now a new cellular vehicle to everything standard seems likely to be the basis for the connectivity. because of the carriers and auto industry to work together to incorporate this into the mobile networks so how does that impact what's possible here given cellular is still in development and seems likely to be integrated with five g. networks more broadly, does that matter? ..
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. >> stay tuned and we will all start talking about this with further notice. the commission is authorizing so now we will switch gears. so 1 megahertz higher up. how that six gigahertz band is immediately below this transportation band we talk
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about it with a six gigahertz band and then authorizing the sharing of this unused spectrum a total of 1200 megahertz however unlike the dedicated but now congestion two.four gigahertz it is heavily populated that worry about interference with a high powered long-distance fixed lengths but also for utilities and public safety.
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how do you view that proposal for that coordination system with that automated database system is reliable enough? . >> i believe the answer is yes with a crazy amount of activity with this new wireless world. with the same old distribution scheme. and when they are in use and then in the near term and then to come up with a way of military radar and unlicensed
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used for wi-fi. and then to explore and go from this world that we believe a spectrum crunch. . >>. >> come over to my optimistic side anytime you want. [laughter] but i'll look at very hard outside of this momentarily can it be tomorrow? 's and on the pale side to look at that option for next
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year. the answer is no. so what we are able to do with a number of different places it isn't for everything so afc makes complete sense because you will not export everyone and is something that makes complete sense with that traffic from the unlicensed universe opening up that one.2 gigahertz that is really exciting we talk about the one channel when our talking about seven additional channels so
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if that will happen i pushed really hard to get it that now we are in the tested and that is what we are working through you would expect the commission. >> it's important to be optimistic because it's so easy to look at the worst-case scenario. >> cynicism in spectrum quality we may not change a single band that we have to be really creative what's going on and doing the most creative things that we can. . >> so looking at a really
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important point but we didn't quite catch is the frequency coordination is something that is a much more complex version like six gigahertz that should be fairly simple but it has provisionally certified a more complex version with the old radio service of three.five gigahertz. . >> we managed for the first time to identify those airwaves that have military use but what about the department of defense? that just bodes well for the future with that technical and cooperative model.
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>> don't you think if it's safe enough for the navy then it is safe enough for the fixed full.2.? [laughter] . >> that is why we take comment to highlight why at some point in the near future we can move forward. >> moving forward with a six gigahertz certainly with consumer groups and public interest coalition that also may have gone over to quickly like everything at the fcc six gigahertz is more complicated there are four different band segments of incumbents. so while 1200 megahertz and
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those channels this is where the big impact comes that is a huge boost for wi-fi, there is a catch under the fcc proposal very low power indoor only use that they could be shielding that around you. and limited to the smallest band segments to free up only one channel. so at some low power level. >> and to have more indoor low-power use and there are two reasons why. first, we have much greater
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scale for devices that withstand more vigorous and second on the record that we can protect those incumbents with low power indoor uses and that is whatever technology is used. so i am very sympathetic and that is something the commission should be open about. and to see what the record looks like you have those changes going forward. >> we see that in five gigahertz with that military
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radar to listen and relocate requirement and going away from that particular band segment. one last question is because this comes up five.nine and six gigahertz is all the airwaves are already assigned to someone no matter how sparsely they are using it the incumbents will always say go somewhere else. not in our backyard, this is too risky, so are there any good options for big wide bands for next generation wi-fi other than six gigahertz?
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is this our big chance right now or are there other places we can just as easily go to accomplish the same thing? . >> it's important to point out even if you don't find the wi-fi in our skies credible last year appropriation congress directed the fcc to find 100 megahertz of spectrum by the end of 2022 for unlicensed airways. we have a statutory direction to make this happen so if we think a policy unlicensed spectrum we need to think of the unlicensed activity to be complementary that will be true going forward just as it was in the past.
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>> nine and six gigahertz are priority with a number of years that people spend on them but how they have regenerated in my career it was troubled and it had its moments and then falling off the radar now it is coming back. and then to be utilized by the public safety is three.5 percent of the band that is 50 megahertz something that we can use to be innovators the unlicensed community will have an opportunity. i have a hard time figuring out that makes the most sense. i know you were talking about lower bands and the chairman has been great adding more for license purposes as we are trying to add to that
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portfolio to make sure the innovators in the engineers are skilled to provide services and benefits. >> i think the 60 gigahertz are interesting right now with license activity and to see there is a new standard developed and wi-fi is another place to watch we are super nerdy right now it is spurring a lot of innovation. >> tell us who you are.
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>> thank you. and right now 5g is one of the issues with uk government so i'm just wondering also to talk about 5g especially with china and huawei. so what is the evidence of huawei to be a national security threat to the us? and if they are criticized by the us that policy including the element of 5g and then to intervene by executive order? is this good for the 5g development for the us and
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around the world? to make it isn't relevant to the top but we will leave that up to you if you want to say anything. >> i am an independent body i leave to the national security concerns to the experts that we indicated are working on these issues. 5g is incredibly important and has national security concerns and we have to work through them. we have a role in that equation but not a deciding role. and to address those as much as possible. >> i with communications daily i don't want to seem like a downe downer. [laughter] but it does take a long time four.nine and six gigahertz are still in those stages so what are your projections for
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how long it will take before users can actually use the spectrum? and other dangers even in terms of innovation and also talk about wi-fi exhaust? . >> i think we are both here working together because speed matters and we wanted to happen sooner rather than later but we have an appropriations law because we are charged with making that spectrum available and if we make that happen we have to get that moving right now. >> i agree it does take longer than you would like. after almost six years everything takes longer and an extra two years than it
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should. with the work that i did and what we're trying to work through to get the staff to make them operational and now working on the auction software. there are reasons we are working through i don't think there will be spectrum exhaustion for people who work in space know it has to happen but you have the right bands to bring those service one - - services the previous speaker talked about. it will take more effort than we would like that that is the reward at the end. [laughter] . >> i'm with the artificial intelligence task force so i'm interested if you can describe
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the environment to improve operations from when you are doing training? if you want to take advantage of 5g your wi-fi what does that look like and what we really getting at and where we could realize that 5g. >> i will answer it this way. the technology will require a lot of effort and you highlight to the edge part that we expect most to be from centrally located servers and those coming to the technology were closer to the consumer
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that is a great benefit. but can we have the benefit and the case studies we are expecting if we have to go back and connect that with those centralized servers and that something to work through so how much can we put on the edge where computing can be done in that universe?
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can we get the panel to, please? . >>
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everything the commission agrees it is key to ensuring that experience of consumers will make fun - - remains robust to meet their demand. so that can allocate more spectrum. >> so now we will turn to mary brown who is a senior director of technology in spectrum policy here in washington at least one or two references with the scorekeepers for the world conductivity. >> we keep track of a lot of data. [laughter]
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. >> and if wi-fi will continue? . >> yes. as michael said we have a visual networking index and this year it was in november and mobile one in february to figure out what is happening with traffic around the world and in countries like the united states. so in the us by 2022, there will be exabytes of wi-fi traffic per month comparing to exabytes of mobile traffic per month that is traffic going through licensed mobile carriers. that difference is a little short of nine times both systems will grow with the
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advent of 5g but the wi-fi system is growing in fact, wi-fi is growing at a 20 percent compounded annual growth rate so the more power we have and what we are holding whether 5g your wi-fi six the more we will consume. it has been happening that way for the entirety of the visual networking index now dating back more than ten years we don't project that will change going forward. one of the things i wanted to talk about briefly is an enterprise company to enterprises in schools and governments and also looking at the stadium space with large stadiums around the
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country to build infrastructure and that are transitioning to wi-fi five and then wi-fi six so how does this change their business or your experience as a consumer? a fully deployed wi-fi stadium today you start off with mobile ticketing washington national stadium you can do that and once you get there you can upgrade your seat on your phone you will have a nap from either the team or the league that will allow you to get statistics on the players are the opposing teams players you can watch the replays you can order food from your seat and then you don't have to stand in line you can order
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swag and gear that you want from your seat it just changes the whole experience for the consumer to get them more engaged in the game for but the key thing from an engineering point of view is all of you out there in the stadium represent the most dense use cases in the world. everybody has their device they all want to share photos of their friends watching the game or winning a goal at the nba or nhl championship or the homerun at the baseball game or to share a video when you all try to upload at the same time that is really a game point for your network administrator so what people are really excited about with wi-fi six that will not be a pain point anymore it will be a wonderful experience. [laughter]
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. >> this doesn't work very well to try to watch a replay. >> and the nba complaining all the time about his favorite team in california not having good wi-fi. [laughter] . >> now we turn to susan who is the chief innovations officer for the consortium of school networking we all know the answer to this doesn't make a difference for schools? . >> absolutely. wi-fi six will be a game changer in education. first of all, modernization has helped the schools make tremendous progress getting broadband conductivity to the schools with the ip infrastructure survey recently indicated 92 percent of schools surveyed that the sec's short-term conductivity
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goals. 35 percent indicated that the district met the long-term goal of the gigabit per 1000 students. however we talk about the last mile in deployment and an education it is the last 30 feet because schools are dependent on wi-fi networks. and in stadiums that is the use case for very dense wireless but schools are the exact same way that only very dense the very spiky with a class of 30 students all logging on with their laptops at the exact same time and accessing streaming media or downloading large files that causes a great spike on the
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bandwidth and it is a headache for the network administrators. wi-fi six has a solution for exactly these environments. what happens in education when wi-fi doesn't work you end up with lost instructional time in education that is the goal if you lose instructional time you end up with frustrated teachers and students and it is a mess and is not what you want so to leverage that power and technology you need to have conductivity. what people don't think about is not just laptops or tablets that internet devices whether programs like a school where technology director dealing with programming robots and
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the impact that was having on the wi-fi and the robots going down the hall with their laptops that is a very real use case in education. also the impact of other devices including school security that is important considerations when you talk about a security environment video cameras and high impact network devices using up bandwidth you don't ever want to be in a situation we are sacrificing quality student education to keep students safe. another one is a potential impact for libraries but the digital divide is real. there are many areas of the country where people don't have home internet access and libraries are often the key to provide that access for these
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users whether online learning or job training or libraries with mobile labs traveling to areas servicing those without a home conductivity it provides them with the access they need with their job skills and training and the possibilities are endless. i am thrilled for the potential of wi-fi six if i was still a director i would be chomping at the bit to get this going. [laughter] . >> this is great. thank you. finally christina mason vice president of government affairs for the wireless service providers association. >> we are talking about the same thing with slightly different content. we represent fixed wireless internet service providers largely rural demographic of
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4 million folks in rural america providing high-speed gigabit speed, internet access, and wireless technology. so in this context we need more broadband access with more high powered outdoor use but it is the same. we are on the same road and that is what it boils down to. to think about the opportunities of unlicensed spectrum that is the highway over which members can deploy to those who need it most and served communities the digital divide that our members can do that cheaply with very little
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overhead that what they do need a spectrum access. so right now our workforce is the five gigahertz that's why we're excited to expand those lanes to provide this conductivity that everyone talks about now. so what we here in dc and abroad how do we bridge the divide in a way that is effective and cost-effective and technologically effective so we are in a position to do this but it boils down to the spectrum access that allows us to have these high speeds moving across these large areas of rural america. so we are excited we just need
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a little more unlicensed spectrum we have smaller providers we wish we had the resources comcast had it would be less of an issue for us but in order to compete and provide low cost services we need this unlicensed access. but we do have existing incumbent views so we are sympathetic and we are sensitive to the needs of protecting incumbents to make sure interference across the board but with that said those technologies we were discussing earlier with those schematics on an automated basis can determine where
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folks are and what they are using we can allow low power indoor but even with high power or outdoor use to get this internet to the people that need at the most. >> i have a few questions before we turn it back over to the audience so one thing i am hearing that i think i can explain why it's not such a disconnect between what mary told us that the wi-fi traffic will just grow right along with cellular 5g and the
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carrier but yet when i go to mobile world congress or speak at those conferences the hype i am hearing is almost wi-fi won't matter anymore. we will have network slicing and that will take care of the schools, factories and office buildings because they all have their own slice of the 5g network indoors and consumers can have a single seamless connection indoors and outdoors which will be 5g because basically unlimited gigabit per person everywhere you are so how do you think about that disconnect? . >> 5g is a wonderful technology. we are very excited and you can have a number one - - wonderful future so we are
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excited to see that take root but when we think about the problem you raise, 5g is predominantly an outdoor technology and wi-fi predominantly indoor technology. now it goes to the width but here is why. we all carry devices that connect to a mobile carrier and there are multiple carriers. so when we connect through wi-fi that is what we call a neutral host. you don't have to be subscribed to a carrier to get that connectivity you duty data but you don't have to be subscribed to that carriers anywhere that device goes it
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is open to the public and you can use that. if we plan this as a thought experiment to think if it goes away for any interior space you will have to have connection from all 5g carriers there aren't that many that went to put that many indoor transmitters inside their building. at the construction point also a management problem and it's a very difficult thing to do. we think wi-fi will be predominantly indoor and have vitality well into the 5g role not to say they will not come indoors but there are other places where it has
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promulgated and we need to see that shift but unlicensed in the indoors is clearly a winning formula. >> i agree. we think that wireline network will deliver between the gigabit speeds in that capacity i haven't heard too many people talk about especially indoors with multiple carriers so we are very confident so with a broadband network to make sure it remains robust we are confident it will have greater speed and greater capacity greater control of the consumer so we see a long-range of the broadband
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network to take it that - - advantage to match the network. >> from that broadband perspective we have questions about those characteristics and the ability to do that last conductivity given the necessary infrastructure high cost and low density, we just have some questions about this investment for these characters - - communities to deploy we are interested to see if we can make the economic case if it's worth it to do the last mile or 35 investment. that is where broadband
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infrastructure comes into play and when we are there already. and to the small businesses that are deploying already and without return on investment for those networks. so we don't have to have this accessibility to these communities we are just curious how they will justify the cost with the population in this area. >> one of the things we think about also is the question of if you are a mobile carrier and you get verizon as they announced a year ago rather than expand the platform for mobile 5g is much less
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expensive to use wide wireless channels at 28 gigahertz to bring a gigabit of conductivity it is like another 32 million homes in urban and suburban markets and it's great except if you need to spectrum to come into the home because you don't have a wire than that doesn't go through the walls. you cannot get into the home. i'm almost sure it is true that that they combine that service with wi-fi. so just like comcast with the fixed wireless gets into the home it goes through the wi-fi router.
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>> you just identify the priority the weakest link in the transmission is the wi-fi whether it's wireline or using the millimeterwave technology that is fine but in the home if you cannot deliver that that the consumer is not experiencing that capability which is why we need to get them to match the capabilities. >> and with the advanced spectrum also. >> over the weekend i was just outside west virginia and we were staying at a bed-and-breakfast that was ten minutes outside of town. a university town. ten minutes. no coverage and the bed and breakfast ran on satellite. we talk about the amazing potential of 5g but how does
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that help the rural areas that don't even have 4g or 3g right now in some cases? how does that help those digital divides? i think it will exacerbate it so while there is tremendous potential in this technology it's important to keep in mind because of the nature of the technology the real area will be much more difficult to access. >> jumping back, christina you mention some license spectrum but predominantly it is unlicensed using five gigahertz so why isn't that sufficient? so why is having access to the wider channels of five.nine or especially across six gigahertz outdoors what difference does that make? . >> if anybody has sat on 495
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during rush hour you need - - understand the need for more lanes and ability to move through this type of bandwidth so 5g is our workhorse. thirty years ago you called them junk band now we call them treasure begins with little pockets of treasure for unlicensed spectrum is the go true spectrum band five gigahertz probably the most widely used but the more traffic you have over the bandwidth the more crowded it is. it is very simple in the physics of it all but it is complicated when you start thinking about the expanding bands so right now since
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gigahertz are very attractive with a little bit tweaking of equipment we can start use that wider sect one - - spectrum band with because again we need the bandwidth to deliver the higher speeds. and in that way we are able to make sure this connectivity is at higher speeds. . >> so at the very beginning to have much faster so the cat videos. [laughter] that the internet of things is a real game changer for the 5g ecosystem. and one of the things i was pleased to learn from amazon
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that i really want to visit is that amazon has massive fulfillment centers each one is as big as a couple for ballfields and apparently if you stand up on the observation platform you can see thousands literally over 100,000 robots that are moving around quickly just to go to the shelves to get things and the employees are walking around and apparently you cringe because you think they will hit the people but they stop and they all move around really fast. >> that would be like our auto system. [laughter]
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that this is actually happening and it is all wi-fi. amazon being a sophisticated company that they made a slightly proprietary version to trap and coordinate all these robots that they cannot step onto the floor without a bluetooth badge they don't care if it's a person they just avoid anything wearing a badge. so this is cool but it shows that they rely on wi-fi for a high reliability operation so i will ask mary to start that the big thing about the unlicensed spectrum is you have to accept interference and no guarantees so what degree can other businesses rely on wi-fi six or more
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important operations and why is that different from today? . >> the amazon example is interesting because there they can make do with five gigahertz spectrum which as michael said any of us could walk into the floor of the warehouse if we were allowed to with our smart phone with a five gigahertz so what amazon does is they limit access to their enterprise. they will not let me walk out there with my smart phone only employees and only to those of us of other transmitters so they have cleared the spectrum inside that warehouse to be able to use wi-fi five to move all the robots around to get it done.
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so what will happen with wi-fi six that is much less of a problem because now the spectrum is deterministic. instead of broadcasting around the warehouse sending out signals to the robots. to have wi-fi devices and that will go right to them. that means you can have a better quality and with that wi-fi five signal and that would perform much better in that environment it is a big game changer. this is truly a revolutionary
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shift. >> everybody things for many years over spectrum but you see that decentralizing control any line whether amazon or comcast can figure out how to use it within that boundary of those protections through innovation that you don't need the fcc to mandate that protection for amazon to control its environment. so over the years and this is why it's a bipartisan effort and why this has evolved we still think the sec setting aside technology or standard to mandate disperses that control and now it is the
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dominant technology used to access the internet and now it seems like it's very dominant technology in this space as well. >> a very unique concept of wireless space for applications where you have trackers and irrigation systems, all of these concepts that one generation ago were not even contemplated but now made possible through our fixed wireless and that spectrum access that we talk about right now. it is amazing how far we have come but you think this is just the beginning with wi-fi six, what else can happen?
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and then to allow your small local farmer to make sure that in a drought that his crops are watered without having to manually go out there and arrange the system so it does help. >> one more question than we will open up. so this is an important point of what we were talking about of those four different band with segments from our point of view the fcc proposal isn't as simple as making all 1200 megahertz available for this inexpensive plug-and-play wireless routers that most homes and small businesses use today so there is actually four segments of the two largest ones require with that
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standard power but it's limited because it's only where it is safe for the fixed lanes and controlled by automated frequency system database. and if that happens there is one additional channel and wi-fi six. as far as six gigahertz goes looking at that perspective what are we losing if we can get ez off the shelf wi-fi routers of the upgraded version? . >> the commissioner said it
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right with the spectrum but the more complicated we make it the more spectrum less becomes user-friendly that it will not be used then it's underutilized again. so it is a challenge because we are having underutilized spectrum and to use that more intensively as part of national policy but at the same time the more complicated and expensive to be adopted at the consumer level at the enterprise level there is more flexibility but if you talk about consumers getting access to the 60 megahertz we need to make those rules less restrictive as possible. >> i share your concern and that education space. it is a tricky balance but i
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thank you are right and with education you have to find the balance and i share your concern as well. >> certainly you can have a high school that has enterprise networks in a small rural district with a small libraries and the teacher who is also the technology director they are not doing that kind of innovation that you talk about. >> so that a high powered the appropriate context for the automated coordination to make that necessary to prevent interference with that large scale use particularly for point to multipoint technology that is fairly easy and fairly
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cheap to use a simple database on the schematic to make sure there is not interference and that we open the support that can be made available with this scenario that can be done pretty easily. so we understand the context of that key coordination and we are supportive of that when it comes to indoor low powered devices. . >> that is a good distinction spirit there are questions out there. . >> we are approaching the end of our time. so in the back.
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. >> introduce yourself
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hopeful unanimity on this issue. we hope to fill the last mile along with existing fire line infrastructure. i think our industry is not
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convinced 5g is the panacea the world is looking for. >> i would add is someone attuned to that, that covers the breadth and diversity of the country. in rural areas we don't have access because it is not available or too expensive. a lot of communities where people can't afford internet access as we can go down the rabbit hole and talk about that aspect of the digital divide but unless carriers offer 5g connectivity for free to anyone who wants it the digital divide is going to exist and that is something we have to come to terms with. >> i would add you put your finger on an important policy debate that has been taken up
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in washington and you see it in the t-mobile merger, you see it in at&t first net for public safety so i will leave you with one fact. by 2023, go with subjecting globally 3.4% of mobile connections will be 5g. a lot of hype around 5g but keep in mind it will take a while for that ecosystem to ramp up. by 2023 the 4g ecosystem is growing and going strong, it is the dominant ecosystem. it will take a while so these are important questions to be talking about. >> back to the beginning it is a simple thing whether it is
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mobile 5g or wi-fi you don't have it unless there is -- unless there is fiber if not to that building, very close and as long as fiber is getting through a variety of providers, high-speed connectivity, anyone with access to that is in rural areas but to the extent you have it you won't have any bottleneck did distribution of that for all your devices indoors as long as you have plenty of spectrum for wi-fi. with that i thank you for those who hung on to the end, thank the other panelists. we will see you at our next event, thank you.
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[inaudible conversations] >> is a look at live coverage tuesday. on c-span the house returns at 10:00 eastern for general speeches, legislative business at noon. on the agenda a resolution marking the 30th anniversary of the tiananmen square protests in china. donald trump and british prime minister teresa may hold a joint news conference in london in the morning, the senate returns for debate and vote on executive nominations including andrew salt to head social security. on c-span 3 house intel committee chair adam schiff talks about national security at the council on foreign relations. facial recognition technology at 10:00 eastern and homeland security officials on combating white supremacy. that is live at 2:00 pm
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eastern. >> darrell davis talks about clandestine relationships detailing befriending ku klux klan members and convinces him to leave the organization. >> he was wearing military camouflage fatigues. the initials kkk on his chest embroidered on his head, knights of the ku klux klan and on his hip a semi automatic handgun and holster. he came in and was followed behind him by mister kelly, the grand dragon. when he turned the corner and saw me he froze. mister kelly bumped into his
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back but the guy stopped short, they regained their balance looking around the room and i knew what they were thinking. either the desk clerk gave them the wrong room number or this was an ambush. i went like this to display my hands and i stood up and approached, hi, mister kelly, my name is darrell davis. >> sunday night at 8:00 eastern on q&a on c-span. >> the reviews are in for c-span's the presidents book which topped the new york times new and it is noteworthy column. a milepost in the evolving and ever-changing reputations of our presidents in the new york journal of books, the president makes a fast engrossing read. with graduations and father's day fast approaching c-span's the presidents makes a great gift.
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how noted presidential historians ranked the best and worst chief executives from george washington to barack obama. explore the life events that shaped our leaders, challenges they face in legacies they have left behind. c-span's the presidents is available as an hardcover or e-book today at c-span or wherever books are sold. >> a look at the global influence of russia and china and implications for relations with the us. a forum at the brookings institution focused on america's military strength and comparisons between the obama and trump administration's approach to the two countries.


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