tv Senate Foreign Relations Hearing on 30th Anniversary of Tiananmen Square CSPAN June 8, 2019 12:11am-2:01am EDT
so i'm mild nationalist. >> watch "afterwards" sunday 9:00 p.m. eastern on booktv on c-span2. >> a senate foreign relations committee hearing on human rights in china 30 years since the student led protest in beijing. his protest ended with a massacre by the chinese army. a former student who wasan aty e protest and human rights advocates testified at the hearing. >> our committee welcome to order. this morning, we are going to on the 30th anniversary, the day after the 30th anniversary of the massacre, all those brave citizens who believed in a freer future for their country, please join me in a brief moment of silence for them, including those who lost their lives.
[silence] thank you. june 1989, a low training citizen, standing down a column of people was the snapshot seen around the world ofrl the chinee people's suffering. the chinese government repression today are perhaps more difficult to capture in a single image, nevertheless, on the present, increasingly bravery. every day, you don't see the pictures and you don't see the ways that they are treated because it's done like that. are treated by the chinese army just party for decades, human rights abuses have intensified under president.
as we say here today, between one and 2 billion muslims walked up by chinese authorities in camps, where they face political indoctrination, isolation, abuse and death. for every person in the camps, ,dozens more wonder what happend to their loved ones. in general, freedom of religion is extinct in china. chinese communist party spent on the selection of the next. it shut down churches and detained christian pastors. the chinesean government is working on correct interpretations of the bible. all of this is part of government policies aimed at stripping religious organizations, and forcing them to align with they. chinese comg to party. those who fear the greatest disrespect are those who stand up to defend it. numerous human rights received
multi- your senses. those not in prison, place restrictions on other forms of harassment and intimidation. alongside the abuses of power, we should not forget the injustices faced by all chinese citizens each day. every internet search or text message, inability to buy a plane ticket because of a social credit score. it's every facial stand, these examples restrict technologies will as an accelerant in the commonest parties repression today. chinese government companies are pioneering and intrusive, massive surveillance system. this is a serious challenge you'll pay attention to in this hearing and the committee's work on china. another challenge is the spread of human rights policies outside of the agreement. comedies exporting technology regimes with poor human rights
records and authoritarian governments and information management and media. chairman seeking to redefine human rights of the united nations. it's exploring the openness of advanced freedom especially, discussion about china itself. this is ruled by fear, rights to its people and can take them away just as quickly as it bestows them. a regime that appointed itself judge of chinese culture and identity, even though the birth of china predates chinese communist party, by more than 5000 years. in a regime that inserts estate into the facets of life that that promotes fate, family and civic engagement. u.s. shipping a defense of
intrinsic values by fundamental freedoms and human rights in central part of china that we stand for freedom and human rights as well as prosperity as an advantage we should not shy away from. i want to thank everyone for their interest in this topic and how a we can stand up to the chinese people as well as protect all of our societies. with that, i'll turn it over. >> thank you. let me thank you in advance for our witnesses. the 30th anniversary of the massacre provides an important opportunity to discuss human rights in i china and the importance of the driven american foreign policy. events of 30 years ago continue to president because of our collective commitment to building a more just and decentt world. china has continued down the path that began that fateful
day. umclaring himself president, cracking down on civil society and human rights, introducing a system of massive surveillance, advancing military on the south china sea and with economic practices in africa and the women's western hemisphere, the trajectory is clear. under the guise of the so-called reeducation campaigns, they have brutally forced a million weavers. heavily surveillance forced labor camps. they may intend to expand throughout the country. facing wide scale repression and harsh controls on religious, educational, linguistic freedom were many respects, the test subjects for the surveillance we see. tcp authorities repress christians and fallen members
who face forced labor and torture for their beliefs. lawyers, journalists, students, labor activists and defenders are all at risk. behind its freight firewall, china has created social credit system thatt rewards the quote unquote good and punishes the quote unquote bad. authoritarian models appealing in all too many places around the globe. dictators are happy to accept china's assistance in repressing their own people. cambodia to venezuela, we find the party of time sharing technologies and techniques they have refined to crush democracy in their own country. developing effective policy that keeps our values at the center of our china policy is uniquely challenging and increasingly urgent. being more confrontational with china does not make us more competitive china. the simple confrontation results
for human rights concerns. as we reflect on the offense, we must also look inward. must ensure our values grounded in international human rights, our efforts to coherently respond to china's rising power and growing authoritarianism. the registration failed to use our cherish time-tested principles and tools to universally and in support and promote human rights. this is simply acceptable. the confusion and dismay last week, pompeo announced the new commission to make sure we have a solid definition of human rights. solid definition already exists, we don't need to redefine human rights. we need to defend and protect them. dyou must get our tools in our toolkit. cultivate robust security partnerships. we must bolster our own presence.
address our own economic challenges and pursue economic. for american values must be the center piece of our foreign policy. we can start by investing institutions that support them probably and stand with those rso secrete them. it wasn't just the strength of our military or determinism of our economy, it was the enduring power of our ideals. this committee must step up to advocate more than a transactional approach to human rights. democracy will not defend itself. in the memory of those who died for their belief in democracy in china, 30 years ago, must remind ourselves of the power of an informed democratic society living in freedom. we must lead with the values that made us great, to be a deacon for those around the world. we offer aet better model, one n which the people of china
demonstrate 30 years ago has universal appeal. not limited to a civilizational particular patient. you must advocate for peaceful protesters. it is these values that inspire others to partner with us and rally with us in taking down the greatest challenges of our time. nothing left today.hi >> we now have three outstanding witnesses that will testify. we'll hear from heaven have questions. or to introduce young, he's a researchg, scientist at universy of california school of tiinformation. under an editor chief of china, digital times. a theoretical physicist by training, it became a full-time human rights advocate after the massacre 1989. his current research focused on state censorship and
disinformation as well as emerging big data and unofficial intelligence in state surveillance in china. >> thank you. june 6, this very day, exactly 30 years ago, i was studying a program at the university. after seen on tv, the soldiers opened fire on peaceful demonstrators in my home city, abandoned my program and caught the first flight home to china. for two months in the time of terror, i tried to find out what happened. contacting people. i came back from a trip one full realization. i realized that the name of
people in china, itself is a lie. this government has never been the people's not the public. china is not elected by chinese myople. the liberation army, only open fired on people on the streets. when challenged, this life could only be maintained through brutal u violence and a fear created through that violence. after 30 years. the regime has not only survived but also increased power. many politicians have convinced that the middle class and the rights of internet were transformed china from
authoritarian to democracy. reality is, chinese have taken advantage of their inclusion in the globalized trading process. significantly growing its economy, control the state capitals and refusing to allow any lytic ligation. after he scrapped the term for, he became the most powerful dictator of the world. there's another threatening trend, threatening the hope of freedom of china. the chinese society, turning them into ath surveillance stat. official recognition, 200 million cameras everywhere. social credit system. it's empowering thend state to control, monitor, manipulate china's population.
with capacity to individuals. it can also help the state to identify authorization. china is exploiting these technologies around the world. enabling global authoritarianism. the u.s. must develop a policy to stop this industry. working with allies, convince china from using its government to control the companies for its digital interest. we must have no illusions, it is in 16th for dictatorship,
abuses and threat of liberty and safety of chinese people andnd people's life anywhere in this increasingly interconnected globe. this is not a clash of civilization. it is a clash between two different systems. between democracy and one-party dictatorship. we need to look at taiwan, chinese civilization works well with governors. south korea and india. as a son of china, and a citizen of the u.s. of america, i'm asking eh of you, we are making the best possible china possible, the value and interest of american people, please also make it in line with and support chinese people struggle for human rights and freedoms because we share a common humility. thirty years after, the party
continues through fear. those who rule by fear also live in fear. last week, i was visiting from an. i had some time to take a walk in the street. where the burning wall once stood. now it's only a dark line on the grass in the city. i also saw something else. names of victims engraved in shining glass, 70000 of them spread throughout the burning city. i started to envision that one day the name of those who died during the massacre will be engraved into the city's walls and parks, the date of peace.
i ask myself, where is hitler now? is the former civil unions? where is the indonesia? they are all gone. he ultimate spirit of human dignity is more enduring than machine guns or even artificial intelligence and spaceships. freedom will prevail. west or east, berlin or beijing. please allow me to ask you, close your eyes for one minute. just close your eyes. peaceful, fearless, young.
infull of freedom. can you see democracy? can you see the brave young man, his white shirt, to shopping bags in his hand. chinese people want, deserve and demand human rights of freedom just like american people. the only reason these cannot be heard is because there have beenei suppressed by chinee government. it is most powerful authoritarian state in the world. the regime is not the most oppressive, becoming aggressive. i would like to end my testimony
with a quote. a man from another civilization. when i despair, i remember that all through history, the weight of truth has always one. there have been tyrants and murderers and before time, they can seem invincible. in the end, they always fall. think of that. always. thank you. >> thank you very much. ...
. >> thank you for inviting me to join you on this anniversary with the chinese authorities a surveillance technology that aspires society. authorities deny any rights coupled with the deeply politicized judicial system people across the country have ability to truly understand how society is informed until it impacts them or their families with examples of this technology the ministry of sublic security thehe privacy data projects is the police cloud system which is national
skipping of information for people's medical records and supermarket memberships and delivery records with the national identification numbers tracking where the individuals have been and what they have been doing asng well as making predictions about activities in effect it watches everyone in the police can designate anyone a threat that requires greater surveillance to the undermining stability. and then to award good behavior at present it is a blacklisting system and those two abnormal can affect one's ability to obtain services for traveling on high-speed trains or to public schools. and then to evolve and how the interacts with surveillance is an open question.
december 2017 we reported on authorities compulsory election of dna samples fingerprints and blood scans in part under the guise of a free public health care program and with that biodata beyond those efforts of the region it did not appear the government disclosed the participants the full range of how to collect medical information to be used and disseminated or for how long it would be stored people were given little information about the ability to opt out. these companies sold dna sequence to public security bureau during this period after acquiring the human rights watch that company agreed to stop selling that particular technology and region however it remains
unclear if it has adopted the due diligence policies for the future more recently to reverse engineer an app that is connected to a police mass surveillance system integrated from a platform which aggregates information about all under the guise of public security. research reveals the authorities considered many ordinary and legal behaviors such as not socializing with neighbors or avoid using the front door or somebody who obtains a phone number as suspicious those that are obitrarily detained. the consequence of these technologies are enormous not only peering into every aspect of the public and private life but also using information gained to reward and punish people outside any discernible
legal scheme tech companies operate around the world we documented the sale of telecom sale to monitor political opponents with a major major voice-recognition company helping to build a voice pattern database in china technologies with a defense conglomerate has numerous subsidiaries including major surveillance camera so what can be done? to combat the chinese government use of surveillance technology and human rights violations we urge the united states to have appropriate mechanisms adding those two impose targeted sanctions and we also encourage consideration of end-users us
companies should be encouraged to adopt due diligence to ensure they are not engaged in a more serious human rights violation the first adoption of the human rights violation to be voted out of this committee there is much work to limit chinese government with those encroachments on human rights particularly with respect to academic freedom the strategy is protecting the rights of those to freely exercise those rights and finally the us and members of the body recommence their support to civil society across china it is a sustained result with both congress and the executive branch people from that community paid a terrible price over the past
three decades. i look forward to your questions. >> now we will hear from christopher walker vice president at the national endowment for democracy prior to joining he was vice president for analysis at freedom house also serving as the adjunct assistant a professor at new york university center for global affairs with authoritarian influence discussions including what he has termed. >> thank you ranking member menendez with the impact of
the engagement on democracy for many years that paramount authority is tightened a grip on chinese society and at home the chinese communist party is taking steps to take control of media and free expression to sharpen oppression were generally the authorities have the ability to do so china has been viewed by those observers through an economic development lens with unconditional gathered in principle engagement that it was in evident problems that assumption was by deeply engaging the peoples republic of china with the interrogation of the economic system it would be encouraged to move in the direction of political reform but this is not turned out the baby anticipated. today it intersects with the global system it has not become more transparent or accountable with those that corrode and undermined
standards with integration thosend free societies view these trends from beyond the prc that this is misguided leading to a dangerous sense of complacency. and those that affect us all this important anniversary of the brutal crackdown of tiananmen square reflects on the china that has emerged over the past three decades and how the country's leadership is pursuing its ambitionsrs the borders the critical aspect is the massive resources the authorities have invested in modern technologyog and with that region that functions now as technology intimated police state. as scholars no investment by
the chinese authorities and other parts of china including tibet over an extensive period of time with the formidable arsenal of our city first surveillance in the weaker region today it serves as an incubator that is speeding back but has an impact beyond china's borders such as latin america andd africa beijing is refined its instruments of influence and the ability to manipulate the political landscape of other countries because the leadership has become more oppressive domestically china has grown more ambitious with those democratic values and the rule of law that the notion of china under the direction of
the cct with educational and cultural and other forms of heinfluence and it has been noted over the course of this discussion china shares technologies and know-how with other authoritarian regimes with cambodia venezuela but the wrinkle today that should concern all of us is that share china is sharing these more open societies this is critical to the evolution ino to say a brief word in the media sphere were china has learned to manage quite effectively as the colleagues have noted that out and globalization in a way that manipulates discourse with wide-open democratic societies but also in authoritarian settings and in africa china has intensified the engagement especially in the sphere to a
state owned media outlets and acting as a supplier but i note the chinese government is not what we imagine it to be it's not real journalism but instead the focus takes on the chinese achievements and i'm learning how to report from the chinese government perspective set patterns are also evident in latin americaca it was reported that china radio international was operating as a hidden hand behind the global lab the stations so this is in line with the patterns we are seeing with china's engagement around the world defined by
opacity ands secrecy so just to give some other examples when they switch their recognition from taiwan to the prc they were kept in the dark until after official announcements were made in argentina when christina was a power saw the people's liberation army given a 50 year lease to build the station with dual use capabilities in patagonia after recent reporting it showed the government with no mechanisms for oversight the national congress launched an investigation but the key issue never was there a public discussion of these issues before the deals were cut playing out what we are trying to be engaged so what do we do
about the challenge first it is important too understand global struggle over whose values will predominate that censorship and the rule of bylaw and the democratic systems to have openness and free expression how this plays out defines the character of the world we live in. as principal steps to get at this first we need to address the capacity gap on china that existed so many settings to support journalists civil society elites to handle the burden they face now in their own countries africa latin america and vulcans to move beyond transparency to enhance transparency as a way against
that state influence but an insufficient step to prioritize democratic solidarity and accelerate learning with democratic partners. thank you for your attention. >> thank you for providing that perspective from whatever we have read from time to time it is a chilling picture that starts to emerge what's happening with surveillance and privacy and the inability to do anything with the government looking over their shoulder but you raise an interesting point that would like you to expand on that the ininproliferation of technologyo open countries can you talk about that quick.
>> this transcends the technology issue but is critically important start part of the discussioneses so i think the focus on what we might call the authoritarian fraternity with repressive states is one part of the discussion but if wee think of how the relationship between china and ecuador argentina, or countries in the balkans there is far deeper engagement today they had five or six years ago, essentially these are open settingsso. that have struggled to achieve democratic reform but in each of these cases the privilege secrecy the transfer of technology that can have
applications used for purposes not used for rule of law something that has far greater scrutiny because generally speaking the experts either knows china the countries we talk about the recent strategic gap that countries in latin america are facing so mentioning ethiopia they have a promise of democratic reform but dte and huawei as the principal content providers that have the ability to have a chokepoint for content and also to manipulate the environment. >> you made reference to rule of law.
very few countries if any that provide for privacy from their own citizens so how does that play into thator quick's there's nothing to stop the government with an overseer of the population. >> so in authoritariananin settings but in some of the countries we have been discussing they may have well - - laws on the books but to suggest they are in greater jeopardy through the deep engagement with china and this provides a vulnerability that was not in view as recently as five or six years ago we are only coming to terms with6 s n.
. >> thank you for your testimony. i agree china's long arm and influence abroad is having implications to human rights efforts one - - issues around the world after a chinese state-owned enterprise was involved a few dayspl ago more than 1000 twitter accounts associated with00 activists and offenders were mysteriously shut down the chinese government was southeast asian countries to detain and deport so are we equipped with these human rights challenges that china presents clicks that we can better deal with to deal with this across the world quick's do you have some perspective on that quick.
>> it is a broad question but i will give you anis example for earlier this year looking at we chat which is a social media platform and we came upon an example in which a canadian member of parliament of chinese descent communicating with her own constituents she posted both on the we chat and her facebook page remarks that were some pathetic to the pro-democracy movement in hong kong but then we had to point out those messages on we chat were censored. we could not ascertain exactly who had done that but it is a very powerful example so those
that are being exploited because they are not being watched very carefully. it isn't the habit of elected members of democratic countries to worry about their communications with their own constituents being censored by entities in another country. so in the realm totoattses be dl one - - vigilant with threats to academic freedom as a result of chinese government every single school that we spoke to certainly has a code of conduct talking about cheating and plagiarism we couldn't find one thatdu had on the books one particular pool or guidelines to look for examples of indices
threatening students. so now the problem isn't so much but being vigilant to these threats to take steps to guard againstofea them. >> the chinese government with open societies to spread propaganda and that lack of reciprocity is evident with freedom of information movement do you think congress should explore further ways to express reciprocity beyond trade as the access to the implementation model quick. >> that is emblematic of the larger challenge and i would commend everyone here looking at the hoover institution to
observe the chinese authorities deny americans systematically access to chinese society whether education or cultural exchange or media engagement as well as public broadcasters and at the same time the american counterparts are not afforded the same opportunity. this is not a binary choice between simply denying china access may need to be creative and way to publicly shine a light on the way china is stingy with access to our institutions it doesn't cost
too much to make a point this is the way their systemos operates the way they treat their own people to deny access with perfectly legitimate conversations of corruption of human rights they don't permit that forward democratic institutions but the first step is to have a much more robust discussion and that goes a long way to set wheels in motion. >> so what about those companies that provide other forms of surveillance that china uses at-home? what's the policy in that regard quick. >> until such time as we can determine that the political education camps have been
closed but longer term the un has set out guidelines that require that each company have a due diligence strategy in place to ensure the company does not have policy or practices in ways that contribute to those conversations with different companies and while most of them have some form of social responsibility policy asking for that due diligence strategy most of them don't have that. so to have all those export licenses we were never contesting that but the problem with the export controls is that they have nott
kept up with what technology is the demand for these purposes. so while it is still illegal without handcuffs is perfectly legal to sell a dna sequence but that is a detail that should be closed. >> thank you for holding this epincredibly important hearing thank you for the witnesses for your testimony and many members of the committee with resolution 221 to remember those tragic events in ten of the square and i hope this is something we can pass as quickly as possible in recognition air to my colleagues to support it. we have to y continue to defend the communist party of current
china and empower people around the globe to know the truth tiananmen. was not a fake moon landing or a figment but it was real. people were killed by an authoritarian state. we must continueil to share the truth so just a couple days ago hundreds of dissident voices had their account suspended on twitter you can see those firewalls in place the chat groups and discussion groups of websites that undergo routine maintenance right around the time of the 30h anniversary of tiananmen
square. as evident from tibet in the human rights record has only worsened in the last 30 years. this is why they most strong one - - have a strong act not to abide by such abuses with the reassurance initiative signed into law to authorize any individual that violates human rights to engage in censorship activities we should take up this language immediately to authorize funds specifically to promote democracy and rule of law with human rights in the peoples republic of china following up
with senator menendez talked about to report that not too long ago that us companies continue to do business that are unwittingly complicit that are taking place so as they encourage investment to draw jobs there there are subcontractors that are participating in human rights violations. we know china will come up over the next several months and those that make investment the largest surveillance to actively have human rights. we have authorize a lot of light legislation funding to address this and meet the challenge how do we best tailor the funds we have authorized to address the human rights violations and what we can do to support those offenders in china i
open that up to any of you. >> thank you for starting to say we should continue to tell the world about tiananmen. we know that truth is repressed so through my own work to watch the chinese internet very closely for the past eight years every year over the last three weeks to suppress the online content that they are being surprised to give you an example over the 264 wars 600 million uses.
the world contrast? know you treat them this way without oppression it will not stop by the chineseio order. and this is what we're facing. but starting with freedom of expression and freedom of information on the internet. yes it is so fragile and insecure. why don't we just take off? just for six months let the information flow that the chinese people access just for
six months the regime cannot afford it because it is that fragile. >> thank you for sharing that. . >> thank you to each of our witnesses last february a number of us we had a meeting with the prime minister of greece it was the support of china and one of his responses was very memorable to that asking for help from the european bank and i was denied ped united states and i was denied. the chinese were willing to help me.
can you speak to the ways it uses its leverage and what we do to respond to that? . >> i think that example is illustrative and you spoke in a strategic context and one of the things we have not touched on yet is that china is investing enormousus resources with people to people exchanges, media, and i think there was a time when observers going back not that long ago dismissing the initiatives but now it's impossible to travel to let not where america our son cheryl you'rent up to say we get
these opportunities if you are serious about meeting the values challenge we have to be engaged across all areas and come to terms with. >> so one other example that used to be a fairly easy thing to do to ask your opinion and that isut exponentially more difficult as a result the chinese financial development. and we see that like blocks with the e.u. but within that individual government that is strong on these issues with people of these governments are clearly feeling thee
pressure between losing out on a trade deal. and then to increasingly they are convinced that they can and he stopped trying so are we doing enough to counter the commitment that china is making to these countries? . >> there has been appellees - - apprehension that china was pursuing solely on the base of economics and its engagement in all settings comes with politics and values. this was another misapprehension the values
that come with china's engagement set aside certain subjects, sidelining participation and otherwise censoring discussion. and to allude to the divide and conquer with the 16 plus one which is now 17 plus one because greece has joined a set of countries. china uses this as a bilateral initiative to operate with the 17 countries. happening both at the state level which is a critical point but universities and cultural institutions and media enterprises are finding picked off sobe we need to cultivate something that wasn't necessary to have greater solidarity among the
democratic institutions because if they are dealing with the chinese parties state they will have a hard time. >> so we read reports in the united states about efforts on the part of the chinese who are speaking out against the repression in china and one of the things we have seen reports on over the last decade has been an effort in china to respond that schools are collapsing because of shoddy construction and children killed. the environmental concerns the chinese people havebe t other
movements to squash those efforts as well? . >> and at the same time the technology makes the economy grow. to not challenge that one-party dictatorship. and on the issue in the chinese people see that should be protected or if the technologies should be implemented the problem is there is no discussion. for example, social credit system to connect with that
central database it hasn't been connected yet but it is on its way from 2004 at the earliest soon as they see the one to introduce from western america and the financial cetransactions and then to extend that to the social area. and then to have a general policy goal and then to experiment and then they will pick what works and how to expand so one country to have that system within the country
everybody. if they have a petition or if they do something that is a credit. so that being reported in china generated a huge controversy and it's no different this violates people's rights it is too much power for the government with the local government and with that local government but that discussion is censored later on so for a couple years not social media and that local
government continues in their daily lives. when there are over 40 pilot projects. and those issues is zero. and that is what's happening in china. . >> thank you. . >> if you see us coming and going we will explain leadership scheduled for votes over this meeting but because of the importancerely we decided to continue so we have to step out and vote so now i will go votepr and senator burr also you can take the chair. >> this week marks the 30th anniversary june 1989 the
government of china said tanks to forcibly disperse peaceful demonstrators the infantry anoops opened fire on students and activist standing up for their fundamental freedoms it resulted in death and hundreds of courageous citizens who were killed and tortured and imprisoned due to their participation of a peaceful movement authorities to this day block discussions marking the anniversary that despite his efforts the world has not forgotten and here it is hong kong remembered to go to the front page of "the newee york times" today with the picture of the crowds in the streets and thousands gathered tuesday
on the 30th anniversary of the crackdown in beijing you go to the financial times front page picture. 's the world has not nor never forget not forgotten the courage and the pain and the brutality of the government of china been to have freedom of democracy men to speak out united states has freedom around the globe to continue to support individuals who are demanding freedom of speech, assembly, free of harassment from the chinese dissidents to exercise their rights and then to continue to speakin out.
what is the most effective approach to engage the government ofef china on human rights. >> thank you for that. and now when the chinese government is eager and we are certainly wet aware when they try to have that h conversation that veer on the perverse if not counterproductive because the chinese government takes those issues and then twist it and then on the country for
governments pursuing with independent activists that many people in washington right now would be incredible to have debates with her how to do with social issues or press freedom and for governments to engage those people had a level with a degree of recognition only reserved for another governmen government, first it empowers that community to give it the recognition itnt deserves and to send a message to help these conversations. >> to answer the question to empower the chinese people against the regime for let's learn from the enemy this
represses the chinese people and it is a nightmare for the chinese citizen. everybody battles freedom. that is right away. thank you. >> senator markey. >> thank you very much. thank you all for your work. we salute your personal commitment tiananmen square massacre. this anniversary gets focused not as it should and with the high tech surveillance efforts
and last month "the new york times" described how beijing exports the mass surveillance model of governments and human rights activist with the subcommittee in april that it was worried with that surveillance technology to burma writing a letter to secretary pompeo asking him to clarify the administrations actions and as we wait for a response what do you think the administration should do to other countries. >> thank you for the question so to make sure us companies are not engaged in or supporting if this is of
so the two have a national willingness to go to other countries without certain trade relations to take advantage that the rule of law was the free trade. >> we are tight with time-limited but thank you for the insight. "the new york times" suggested they were shelving sanctions against officials for abuses against the leaders out of concern while undermining trade talks if true what
message do they send to the detainees but also to the chinese government but that commitment we have to protect human rights in china. >> and with response to the gross human rights violations taking place. i literally don't know what else the administration is reading for. . >> i don't know if i have anything to add to that. >> what's the impact in china with the administrationan polic. >> what is the impact of this policy of the united states? . >> of course, this is a huge
issue the authorities use this to offend nationalism and with the repression and censorship h you can only hear one voice and really we have been working hard with the deleted contents and materials to listen to the other voices the chinese people they are plliberal voices they are the ones who believe that letting the chinese government to follow the rules to let foreign companies in to compete maybe it's bad for government for state enterprises but is good for people and consumers as a matter of fact. >> do they have these qualities we invented the facial recognition or the
internet so that can enable we are the veteran of these technologies cannot turned a blind eye other cultures using our technologies. thank you. >> thank you senator markey. like to thank the chairman and the ranking member for holding this hearing today on the 30th anniversary of tiananmen square massacre. thank you for taking time to speak with us today about the human rights record as the cochairs of the human rights caucus yesterday issued a statement honoring to remember the chinese students who raise their voices calling for freedom 30 years ago i remember the horror i felt watching that government crackdown as well as the inspiration i felt of the loan anonymous man standing courageously in the path of a column of tankser his brave act is an important reminder to all of us that to all humans that struggle for a basic
measure of dignity and freedom. is deeply disappointing they refuse to acknowledge what happened 30 years ago and the fact that government works diligently to erase all mention of tiananmen square makes it all the more important for those of us with the right to speak freely that we do so. it's also agh reminder there are many in china who believe in universal values if we have a disagreement. not with the chinese people it h an important reminder many chinese don't want to work for an accountable government and not all chinese believe that propaganda they believe from the united states should find ways for these voices i found compelling the senator menendez opening to use the example of a nation to build a global network of alliance
whether sudan where protesters who were peaceful mowed down by their army in the last few days or 30 years ago we have to stand up for human rights you have had to verify colleagues question about the administration and inconsistency but your testimony underscore the importance of congress keep up the pressure for universal human rights i applied to hisetary pompeo for elstrong statement but remain concerned they are highly selective failing to speak out on human rights abuses of north korea or saudi arabia for example. how much of our credibility depends on being consistent as a nation when we speak on human rights and what happens to thewe credibility when we only condemn human rights abuses in a few countries and then overlook them or ignore them and others?
. >> clearly this is human rights is essential if you are vulnerable to criticisms if you only care about in one cace and then to undermine the idea human rights are universal indeed. given the scope of the particular work where the absence was held where it has made it exponentially more difficult to advance any steps toward fact finding. >> one of the more inspiring aspects to serve along senator john mccain was hearing him articulate the way human rights is not just one of many interest but the principal interest united states has to
continue advance around the world is what defines us with our willingness to advocate for human rights even not in ourgh narrow or shirt tour or more strategic interest. mister walker i found your comments the ways technology of controlling the authoritarianism is exported by china globally to reinforce what i have seen in sub-saharan africa one of my concerns is the ways in which repression plays out as you testified in detail will now be replicated in other countries around the world fairly quickly. we have dedicated ourselves to the mechanics of elections of middle income and lower income countries and there is a concerning possibility of overlap with the biometric data capture to validate
elections in the machinery of oppression. how can we come up with standards of conduct for governments to help citizens have confidence that by participating in a public health screening or voting they are not handing over their own identifying information that makes it easier to track? . >> that is a terrific question senator and is not easy to answer. 's speaks to the need for democratic solidarity. i believe all the democracies are in this together to that extent of sub-saharan africa and latin america which are now adopting those technologies but also those norms it is important to understand not just the hardware butrt china comes in with a certain set of
standards in my view of democratic and human rights that takes a lot of work because countries that have deep institutional roots and therefore more of an ability to respond they are better positioned but not entirely as we learned in our own country with the vulnerabilities of the electiond system that is true in all democracies. eeis speaks to new models of cooperation going across disciplines. this is important not just regionalde specialist people who understand privacy models and this is something we have to get better in the coming. .. >> to those eastern european states with that broad interference and electoral
systems from russia there is a sharing among democracies as a means of resisting undue influence. we need to rapidly develop something comparable with your comment on the chinese training of journalists in africa was a reminder we are far into but is now a competition. but a clash of competing visions of the role of the individual with the state and society. i am well over my time i'm. i find your comments inspiring i would like to give you a moment to share given that i am confident young chinese continue to yearn for those same things a generation ago did, what can we do here to help them in the united states? . >> before answer i want to
respond. >> we have limited time with the vote coming up. >> the united states should put many pro democracy programs including the educational area that has the ai agenda to engage the chinese youth to a more open world today even when they come to the united states even the chinese social, media world they are not so open to the life here in the political system here there is much more the program can do even to the chinese students around the world. >> thank you. . >> thank you to the witnesses perk i know you have testified and there are questions that
have been asked but returning to the reporting the last couple of years about the mass suppression of leaders in northwest china has been chilling with the involvement of someof american companies to help provide china with technology has been very disturbing. it strikes me if leaders were christians and the chinese government was placing officials in the homes of officials we would be absolutely taking to the street so the fact the muslims and the information we get is harder to access for some has suppressed the degree of outrage among the american public. i work on legislation with colleagues to get more
reportingg from the state department, letters, asking them to do more but what might we do to raise the consciousness of the shocking violations of basic human rights? and concentration camps and those to monitor their religious observances is unheard of what can we do to spread the word to generate global average. >> so with a brief observation the reporting that has been done in "the new york times" and "wall street journal" that has been phenomenalep bringing to light in graphic detail is the way this technology animated police state has emerged is critically important the next step for
all of us to understand that is consistent with the entire discussion what happens there is not in a vacuum. and has been happening in other parts of china already and informed development in the region and informing developments beyond china and dad is central to this thinking about all of us who valuel privacy, human rights values and what the leaders are suffering in the view tmething that can be applied elsewhere and that should chill all of us. >> i will ask a second question and i will finish on time because i have to vote. give us advice something we hear w often from the administration raising human rights issues with saudie arabia, if we insist on human
rights standards will just go to china or russia because they will do business with them. so that argument always makes me furious i want to be true to our values i hate dictators on the right or the left we should stand for something different.t.ha but how do you respond to that argument there are countries tlat are perfectlyly willing to do business so why should the us insist on those standards? . >> thank you for the question i have heard that argument from just about every anvernment from the us and beyond. nobody wants to be in the lead with the chinese. it depends on who is in the hot seat. the government is at the point
with much greater recognition of the threat and the question is how to channel to be that those norms to translate to prioritize and i would like to tweak that comparison we find ourselves saying a lot if any other government was locking up 1 million muslims on the basis of their identity nobody would aspire to that. two things i can think of off the top of my head that this committee and others can do is across the us the community is in desperate need of recognition and attention from trauma counseling and database with the recognition of their problems.
and we can find those to disagree to put greater pressure on china. >> so we very much appreciate the committee chairman for hosting this hearing on such an important topic. i apologize this is the fact we hmp keep emptying the room appear with votes so we have to run back and forth to vote. the good news your responses are kept in the record and will be available to us and people throughout the world who have interest in this topic. i for one was inspired by the
extraordinary bravery demonstrated 30 years ago in tiananmen square and was impressed with the courage of the individuals who stood and expressed their desire for freedom and i recognize a sense of vitality and energy among the people in china to consider alternative p paths and clearly the whole country was not looking to become a democracy in our form but looking at alternatives. my perception today that may no longer be the case. went to get your thoughts of the mood and perception among the people of china. i say that with the leaders incarcerated with the effort
to create civics course there is a sense the spirit tiananmen has been crushed and it has been forgotten. i have a very close colleague a professor at a business school withs several chinese students in the business school c class and they ask questions of freedom of expression, the freedoms they hope to have they defend the government but suggest it is totally appropriate to prevent the internet to foment among the chinese people and it is extraordinary to see there is very little discussion of alternatives among the chinese people. so those who watch closely and ask for your perception, is
there a dissent movement or an openness or desire for change or has that been crushed by the government quick. >> when social media got into china around 2003 a few hundred of the blocks the student researchers say those political discussion to say no. but after ten years when social media has hundreds of millions of users citizens were working so hard the main voice of those leaders they have a maximum of the follower but that leads to the
president to have a full scale crackdown on the chinesent internet so even if the control is not strong enough not onlyis dissent that popular but second yes we heard all of this in the past people say i change my mind i don't know anything but do you really believe that? when it tries so hard to suppress every single word on the internet? they know. as soon as they collect that the memories do come back and peopleor do remember but there telling you they don't remember because of fear. and they rule by fear. >> a quick observation that one piece of the current
puzzle is about people who leave china for a more open environment precisely because they want to know about or rbecome exposed to delivering different political systems work and study that ensure academic freedom it is imperative to think of those people in terms of solidarity frequents a complicated hiscussion with national security but i feel strongly that they have arbitrarily targeted people based on citizenship orr ethnicity not to repeat that at this moment that people come here precisely because they want the rights and the freedoms people feel uncomfortably targeted it's imperative to keep that spirit alive to keep
the environment opene for them. ei thank you chairman and to each of the witnesses go this week marks a dark location in world history. thirty years ago thousands of chinese protest gathered to demand freedom and demand democracy. the chinese communist party the people's liberation army slaughter themib. to this day we still don't know exactly how many perished on that bloodied on as it was described. today the ccp continues its war against the people of china treating the rest of the world with a similar distain in my view posing the greatest long-term geopolitical threat to the united states that has to be dealt with clear eyes.
we cannot break off relations with beijing but we must begin to rethink those assumptions guiding policies since tiananmen square. start byrt addressing the uncomfortable reality at home the role of technology and china's oppression. human white rights watched for your colleagues reverse engineered the integrated joint operations platform is a primary tool of mass surveillance that contribute to the censorship ad apparatus to restrict china's access to such technology how beds
widespread is technology with surveillance and censorship? is technology with surveillance and censorship? wish i had the perfect answer to that. but the fact we don't have clarity that is a problem in and of itself to do due diligence strategy whether tech companies or infrastructure the nature of their business and they cannot enable to human rights violations. >> if you google tiananmen square do you learn about the massacre with the slaughter quick. >> chinese government they
to make those much more precise and comprehensive. and companies are actively aiding and abetting plppression of censorship of free speech and this year reports began to circulate twitter suspended the accounts of dozens of chinese political dissidents twitter had run a sweep for bots specifically. how do you describe the communist party's efforts to course americanco companies into nensorship activities? . >> but i do know that the chinese espionage and
intelligence communities to facebook or gmail and with anybody's twitter account. they have that technology. >> you have warned about china'snd sharp power to describe the infiltration of higher education this concerns me greatly listening to espionage and theft act that gives the fbi to address the issue. what step showed universities take to insulate themselves from espionage and what step should the government take to
protect higher education from these threats? . >> that question is related to the previous pattern of inducing or cajoling or coercing independent institutions into open societies to behave in ways they would not otherwise behave so looking at these issuesev relevant stealing technology but a full spectrum of challenges that transcend those issues which can induce educators and students to sidestep certain issues that are not welcome by the chinese authorities this is something we need to find ways to develop more solidarity so no
single institution is exposed to the influence of the chinese party state that is the most effective way over tome to have them feel as though they can say no and uphold those standards. >> are all three of you aware of the case that emanates from idaho? the second maker of the memory chips that the chinese has secrets and trade now we sue them over the use of their own technology. are you aware a of that for what they try to accomplish in china in 2025.
you want to get familiar with additives on the radar of the administration at the highest level in here in congress taking it up with the chinese ambassador hear he was born to be an ambassador defending the undependable. but i will close up with the point we have barely touched on that all of us on the committee get touched by virtually every country in the world with head of state commerce, defens commerce, defense, foreign secretary, when you talk about what china is doing they are doing something in every country. they are ubiquitous around the world. but talk about what they are doing like sri lanka they lost
the port and they took the money mistakenly and now they lost the port. they come back and say the united states is not doing enough they show up with a bushel basket of money and the united states does not. you listen to that and these people desperately need money like sri lanka so what is youre response what do you say touch on that for a minute please. >> if i myself saying often nature has nothing on the communist party they will move into every any space they are granted and any government that is serious for human
rights needs to get out and become very aware very quickly of all the spaces the communist party have moved into and defend them vigorously now while they still can. many of those key institutions that united states relies on and sri lanka our under threat specifically as a result and that should be a priority. . >> the chinese seem to pick out places where they can put money this has nothing to do with human rights or democracy or the government in power. this puts a sad disadvantage and then i hear this to bid on
the job and as you probably aow. this is disadvantaged and these countries will recognize the danger to be so controlled is not a rule-based game they have civil society a relatively open media this just isn't about who is providing moree money but also eroding those democratic systems in those countries. and then to recognize that they are capable of doing and
in those countries for china's interest. >> dad is appropriate. there are others that our more susceptible than others and that's a good point. . >> one way to think about this n is not only about the many and to be deeply engaged and not just about the infrastructure investment and with that political opposition that is the way that civil society can operate and i would put it
this way the united states and its partners have the luxury of not doing anything. and it has the extent to help the partners defend them in solidarity and it is a losing proposition about what we're doing now five years ago. >> thank you for being here today. i'm going to keep the record open until close of business please respond to those at your earliest convenience we would greatly appreciate it. and it will be watched around the world and it has -underscore those challenges we are facing.