tv Kasey Pipes After the Fall CSPAN August 10, 2019 9:02pm-10:01pm EDT
of time to spend in the space chatting. >> my dearest friend, my sister really, sitting over there, this book was published a few years ago so she gave me the inspiration. she went and got all the food. so thank you so much. [applause] please eat the food. >> thank you, everybody. >> would you like to sign here? >> i guess i could sign right here. >> now on c-span2s book tv,
television for serious readers. >> good evening. my name is jim, i'm the executive vice president of the richard nixon foundation. it's always a pleasure to welcome you all here to the beautiful library in orange county, california. i'd like to think our numbers were training us this evening. if you are a member, stand up and be recognized. come on, there's a couple of you here. there we go. [applause] it's an exclusive group of members who support the ongoing quirks of president nixon's foundation which applies the legacy and vision that he had two opportunities facing our
nation in the world today. if you're interested in joining, track me down. anybody can get you signed up this evening. i'd like to tell you about a few special offense, august 20, their new amazon number one bestseller, justice on trial about the kavanaugh supreme court hearings. september 11, we will host two programs, first as an annual commemoration of patriots' day and then we will host supreme court justice or such that evening. 7:00 p.m. for discussion within 60 foundation. finally september 13, general james will appear in conversation. tickets can be purchased by
visiting the nixon foundation.org. this evening, we are pleased to host the author, post- president yards years of president nixon. his life and achievement back and come back. it's deserving of the book of its own and probably a series of books. not one to be written off, he rose from the worst to become america's elder statesman. in the 20 year period, he reinvented a former president serving as advisor to every corner of his successors, he made 29 foreign trips and worked with world leaders across the globe. to tell this remarkable story, of "after the fall", we are trying to casey pipes. he is a historian whose previous book on president eisenhower's well claimed. he served to george w. bush as a
speechwriter inflator at the gettysburg college. join me in welcoming casey pipes. [applause] >> thank you for being here and for having me. thank thank you for the kind words. after hearing all of the people coming up later this fall, i kind of want to come back. [laughter] i also want to think the president of the foundation who was indispensable to me in the writing of this book and have me on the radio last week to help promote. i want to think a couple of the
archivists who worked with me, greg cummings and eisenberg who understands i am retired. great work in helping me get the files needed. you remember walker and fred, just a tremendous number of people helped make this possible. i want to say hello to linda and larry you are right here, these are the parents and friends of ours, the pitching coach and we live right around the corner. you get the award for traveling to the furthest i think in two and a half hours to be with us. so thank you for being with us. hope it's worth it. let me know, i'll be asking here. thanks to all of you for being here as well it's great to be back. the first time i came here was
in 1995, i was an intern at the ronald reagan presidential library. he brought me down, his friend was running things down here. john showed us around, it was wonderful to be here. i came again in 2007 with the release of the eisenhower book. then in 2010, once the book was out, once the book was inked and i had a deal, i came here and began going through the files and spent a number of months here doing the research. so it's been amazing. when i first started, i wonder if there's really an audience, do people really care? last week we were the number one new arrival on amazon. i did an interview last week
with the number one morning sure and the anchor is the football play-by-play guy. i better have my nixon sports story ready for this interview. he spent 15 minutes walking through the post residency and at the end i sent an e-mail and said i appreciate this and he said, nixon is one of the most fascinating people, i've always been a fan of nixon. it's amazing how there are nixon people all over the world and we don't even realize it. amazing command man and amazing career. my story has always been to tell the stories that have been on hold and need to be told. focus on stories we know something about but we need to know more. for me, the road less traveled first led me to the story of eisenhower.
the road last traveled led me to the nixon post- presidency. this is a story that needs to be told and understood in a way that has never been fully understood before. we have an idea of what nixon was doing, he was active, hopefully you will agree. we have an idea he was somewhat successful, hopefully after reading this you will read this and realize he was more successful than you could have realized. before talking about and what is contained in it, we have to understand how high he climbed as president to appreciate how far he fell at the end of his presidency.
think about nixon in 1972, is closing in on a deal to end the war in vietnam, he went 49 state and the largest landslide in american history. he's on top of the world. less than two years later, the approval ratings hovering in the 20s, forced to resign. he finds himself fighting for his life. we'll talk about that more in a minute. there have been entire libraries of book written about his life. entire libraries written by his presidency. even vice presidency and even to get. we have monica memoirs which are wonderful, robert which covers the first few years.
there's never been a twenty-year volume that covers the entire story of what happened to him after watergate. historians will always debate whether nixon was a great president. i think this book makes clear there's no debate he was a great president. he's one of the great stories and presidential history, is the greatest nixon story that's never really been told. so why a book of his life after watergate? if it's so important, why hasn't no one done it before? 's shakespearean figure. of all the experience, we will suffered and have setbacks but none of us experienced professional setbacks the way he did. in a sense, the story is about us. we all come back and find our way when we get lost. the other reason the story has not been written is because the
papers are privately owned by the family and i was able to write this book. not only is this a new book about a new period of life for nixon but has new material in it. i think it makes it interesting from it makes it worth reading and thinking about because this is a very extraordinary. in the life of a very extraordinary man. when he left the white house in 1974, he had no money, no future and no obvious way to make a living. within weeks of moving back, he faces a health scare almost paint his life. battle of depression. here's what he wrote in 1974, write books, make speeches and try to put things into context.
this is the roadmap he would use for 20 years. writing books, giving speeches and putting things in the perspective for the people in history. it's amazing how well he did. he does it so well and so effective and well known for his books and appearances, people began to accept him back again. part of the story in this book is this relationship with reagan, bush and nixon and his advice and counsel and how it helped change policy and history. let me mention three changes you will read about in the book. changes that occurred because of nixon and one change that occurred because of nixon. this is really the heart of what
the book is about. change. first, nixon and the post- presidency changes the very nature of the post- presidency. there are no other presidents. they all die. truman died in 72, eisenhower and 69. nixon knew all of them but he watched what they did in retirement and what they did was very different than what he's going to do. they basically retired. he becomes a doting grandfather. these are men that basically accept retirement and go away. nixon has no such choice. he has to make a living. he has to resign from the barr, he wants to resign but they won't let him. they want the privilege of kicking him out.
he can't practice law, he has no way of making a living. what he does with no template in front of him, he invents the template that all ex- presidents today more or less follow. he write books, travels two countries, giving speeches, stays in contact with other world leaders. he talks to presences, he uses his ideas to influence washington. you think about the post presidents today. clinton and george w. bush with his think tank in dallas. trying to influence policy. barack obama writing books, they are all in some way following the nixon model. nixon didn't have the option of retiring. he wanted to remain active.
he told john taylor that he had to remain active for his own health. to keep his mind as sharp as he wanted it to be. he spent years writing book after book on his main area of expertise and he becomes a trusted advisor and confidant. he doesn't just write books, he writes books that matter. books that people read and people absorb and pay attention to. he didn't just say something, he had something important to say when he was writing and speaking. he showed he still had an important role to play as an outside counselor. he read the real work in 80 and was inspired by and carried it around with him at one time. in many ways, this led him to have an even closer relationship with nixon. nixon relished the chance. the only power he had left, his
mind and ideas to influence policy. it gives counsel the influence with his ideas on things big and small. let me give you an example of something small. shortly after reagan becomes president, he wants ways to take advantage of reagan's ability. nixon said, i have a great mind, reagan has a great gun. he's a guy with tremendous ability, he can speak to the country, rally the country and nixon sees this and wants to take advantage of it. early in the reagan administration, nixon sends memo to reagan's longtime communication advisor, urging the creation of a weekly ten minute radio talk to allow the
president to dominate the papers. nixon suggests they do this sunday, he tweaks it and saturday morning radio address is born. cap austin from 1982 -- 2018 when trump discontinued it. we've always known he started. his real contributions came on bigger matters. nixon meets with him, he finds that this could be a man that reagan said he could do business with. he senses opportunity here to move forward and perhaps end the cold war. he wants reagan to meet with him from a position of strength. when reagan announces intentions to build the initiative, nixon immediately doubts the science, but the technology will work.
but he loves the idea of using it for leverage in negotiations. almost from the beginning, he sees fdi as a key bargaining chip for reagan. later on, when he threatens to pull up, he walked out after they essentially strike a deal because he tells reagan this is contingent upon you getting rid of him. he comes up with a solution. nixon suggests the security advisor, i feel very strongly that the president could formally offer mutually share with the soviets the result of our research. this would undercut his position. he was right. reagan took the advice, offered
to share technology publicly and he essentially boxed him in and brought him back to the table. this maneuver helped the negotiations continued forward and played a role in getting the soviets to agree in the treaty with an entire class of nuclear weapons. president bush, he privately went to china after the tragedy. taking advantage of the goodwill that people had in that country. he met with leadership and spoke brutally language to him. the enemy would be the death of the relationship with the u.s. if it happened again. upon returning home, he reported back to the president, they wanted to put sanctions in place, something the president and nixon didn't want to do or
see happen. but the fact that he delivered the message, help diffuse the situation and helped the president out of the crisis. here's richard nixon and bill clinton working together to assist him and democracy in russia, the emerging breakaway republics. it was the best meeting i've ever had as clinton marveled at the wisdom nixon gave him. he urged him to be brave and support the movement in ways that he didn't believe bush had done enough to do. he changes the post- presidency and policy, most important this book shows nixon changed himself. during this period, he comes to terms with all he achieved and all he lost.
the conventional wisdom says he accidentally confessed during the watergate section, this has been a myth that they have perpetuated for some time. the reality is quite different. they talked about in advance. he apologized for his moral failures. he said he screwed it all up but he never admitted criminal wrongdoing because he didn't think he violated any criminal laws. this would be the message he used the rest of his life when he was asked about this topic. it came not as an accident, it came as a plain answer to a question that they planned together. the moral failures wait on him. he dealt with it in his own way, by beginning to reveal himself more and more and come public with people.
his opponent called to let him know he was dying of cancer, nixon consoled his former rival. when the two men hung up, nixon turned to his aide and said, i don't care what it takes, i'm going to his funeral, start working on it. i freaked hung up and turned to his wife and said, no former president should have to live in exile. he wanted nixon to be seen in public as historical because he knew it would give him a sense, the country a sense that there was forgiveness and grace. the funeral in washington, the first since washington. he publicly emerged at another funeral, this time to deliver the eulogy for his friend, woody haze. this is what nixon said in his eulogy. he was never satisfied with
success and he was never going to be discouraged by failure. there is a rule in life, if you take no risk, you will suffer no defeats. but if you take no risk, you will win no victories. nixon certainly was describing woody haze but almost certainly, he was describing himself. when mcfarlane survived in failed suicide attempt, when he woke up in the hospital, the first person he saw sitting by his bedside was nixon. he pointed out the bible on the nightstand next to the bed, your strong faith will get you through this. finally, after the dedication of his presidential library, where we are today, nixon told friends
who gathered around him "afterwards" at the time that his grandkids asked him what name he wanted to be called, you can call me anything you want to call me, he said. i've been called everything. this period of his life shows nixon as a human. it shows him as somebody who struggled through the failures of life and for setbacks of political career and get came out on the other side. nixon in exile is a different man, a man in full, a man who can look back on success and failure, on tragedy as well as triumph, defeat as well as defiant response. he never gave up. there is a lesson in the all of that for all of us. it's remarkable to think in august 1974 when he left and
arrived a few miles from here, not even richard nixon could have imagined that he would be back in the white house, giving president reagan advice. or delivering a message that was important to the bush administration meeting with bill clinton and becoming friends with bill clinton, in april 1994, bill clinton arrives at the funeral to deliver a eulogy in which he said, make the day of judging nixon only by watergate come to an end. nixon himself said only those who have been in the deepest valleys can appreciate how magnificent it is on the highest mountain top. he was constantly navigating the valleys, nixon in his last 20 years could look back on his entire life and for once enjoy
the view. he made it back. that's the story of "after the fall". i hope you read it and like it and know how grateful i am thought you came. i'm happy to take questions or comments. [applause] >> thank you. we will take questions if you will raise your hands. i welcome to you with the microphone. i want to ask the first one. give me what you think richard nixon would think of the current media arena and what i mean by that is in this day and age, we have media that is so quick and spread viral, instantly with social media, give me your take of what he would think about.
>> he certainly would be more diplomatic about it that our current president but i don't know he thought much more highly of them than our current president does. there's a book in the 90s, new york times runs a favorable review of a new biography, one of nixon's favorite historians, wrote our review and it was very positive about nixon. accident reads it in his office and says, the new york times once a decade will write something nice about me. i guess because of 1990, they wanted this decade out of the way. always had a very skeptical view of the role of media. i don't think that improved over time. the media environment today is very different with all the different platforms, social media platforms.
he was an innovator. the whole concept of him developing the idea of saturday morning radio address, he wanted to find ways to communicate more effectively so i think he would be somebody looking for ways to use the tools to his advantage in the presence advantage, however the president might be. ... no doubt about it it costs quite
a bit. >> it did and there's a scene in the book where ford comes to seem in the hospital in october of 1974 when nixon had his health care provided and it's an emotional scene. i think it's the closest he ever got to thinking him. the whole concept of the pardon was a very difficult thing for him because he did feel bad about it has been mentioned before. but publicly states remorse about what happened that he didn't feel like he had broken any laws that he didn't feel comments he said my mistake was i wasn't a very good butcher using gladstone's phrase. he was trying to help people so he was -- had very complicated feelings on this topic and i don't know that something that he would have ever thought to
sit down and talk to gerald ford about. they didn't have that kind of relationship in the first place. it was a former relationship. the scene at the white house is probably as close as i can get to it and you know it's worth reading and he was in an emotional state. llamas died in here comes the president of the united states who just issued this pardon. it's a great theme and i would recommend that but other than that i don't know there was a whole lot of direct conversation between the two. >> could you talk a little bit about some of the post-resignation relationships lady, holderman, cold month and specifically henry kissinger. how are those relationships after? >> they were all very different through the kissinger relationship has been
well-documented. robert dowd has written a book about this and how the two men jockeyed for credit over different foreign-policy accomplishments. it was a complicated relationship for sure but his relationship with some of his aides was a little more personal and again he felt they are suffering very personally particularly the one that went to jail you know mitchell and ehrlichman and haldeman. these are things that weighed on him and there are stories in there where he occasionally reaches out and haldeman gets out of jail and the calls him and it's a pretty emotional conversation. they felt their grief very personally and so there are a lot of those stories in their, a lot of those conversations. the heart and soul of the book by design is really to show him
how emerging from his emotional state in 74 and 75 and really focusing on his policy objectives and really taking in him seriously as the next president and what was it he was trying to achieve and what we was trying to achieve is to become a counselor and adviser on foreign policy. most of the book tends to focus on those -- focus on those relationships reagan, schultz, al haig and mcfarland as i mentioned earlier and james baker and then bill clinton. those are described in more detail but there is certainly a good amount of him reaching out to his former aides, visiting with them and you get a sense through the dialogue and some of those conversations at how much it weighed on him. he definitely felt a burden for each of those men.
>> hello. i am a republican woman from irving california and i just pointed out that i'm a naturalized american originally born in taiwan. i have two questions for you. number one, i was here for my son's sports activity and when i was going to the museum i was very puzzled why is it that president reagan or president nixon later on would go to china and establish that kind of relationship with china knowing that china is a communist country. when i saw an exhibit in 1947 in his memoir he said it was clear that we have come to a consonant tottering on the brink of chaos and europe would be plunging into anarchy, a revolution and
ultimately communism. that tells me he was very uncomfortable with communism so why is it that later on he would feel so comfortable i want to say with china and my second comment is growing up i don't think i was taught properly in public education. i really feel after going through the exhibit here that i don't think president nixon did anything wrong. i don't feel that he needed to resign. i wish he had just stayed on and let the world know what kind of person he really is. the real criminals for those who broke into a building. he has a president i wonder if he felt compelled to do what he did because of national security. back then we were dealing with a
lot of communism that came from leftover world war ii you no problems so those are my two comments. >> there's a lot to unpack there. let me start with the first one. so you mentioned nixon being a cold warrior and he was in the china play was a partner in the cold war strategy. i think this is misunderstood in some places that nixon was naïve about china or he just wanted to have good relations with them and bring pandas back to our zoo and get the photo op. this was actually real politics. this was a man essentially trying to drive a wedge between the chinese and the soviet union that sounds it was a brilliant strategy. the other piece of the strategy that nixon and himself at the time said you can't ignore 750 million. you have to have some sort of
engaged with them to try to influence them. there's a story and i can't room for where read it about reagan visiting with some taiwanese leader around the time and reagan saying to them somebody was going to recognize china sooner or later. you are better off later and there's a lot of truth to that. he was doing this from a position of the great cold warrior. he was not naïve to what the chinese were doing and as i mentioned was capable of being rudely honest to them even later after tiananmen square. he viewed it as a cold war strategy, as a way to in some ways separate them from the soviets and people can debate the wisdom of that but that's what he was trying to do. in terms of watergate i can only tell you what he himself said which he certainly felt that he
had made moral mistakes and yet let people down and he screwed up as he often says but you are right. he viewed his role in this as essentially trying to cover for his friends who were doing these things and he resigned because he didn't believe he had enough support to sustain himself in the senate. and i think he resigned because at some level he knew it was best for the country and that was part of that and that factored into his decision as well. those are questions that we will debate forever and hopefully this book sheds some new light on it. >> hi. can you please share with us the role that pat nixon had in president nixon's redemption and the drive from the ashes and
what was your perspective of him going back into the political arena? >> she was surprised just as she was when he was president. she was his biggest cheerleader and biggest spam. she felt he had been dealt a really bad hand that always did feel that way and they remained enormously close during that time. his setbacks would only bring them closer i would argue and it's interesting there's a fascinating part of the story toward the end of the book where she is watching television one day in the late 80s and she's watching the phil donahue -- donahue show of all things and who shows up on the phil donahue show as the main guest but new york businessman donald trump as she watches the show and she's impressed and she tells her husband i watch donald trump on television and the answer to this question and was talking
about politics. nixon rights trump a letter. nixon didn't see it. he's taking his wife's word for it and says my wife said she saw you on television and she said you were great and if you ever decide to run for office someday you are going to be a winner. that letter is now framed in the oval office today and it's one of trump's prized possessions. you know it's interesting nixon never quit handicapping politics. never quit working with potentially there's even all the way through his death. he obviously wants bill clinton to deliver his eulogy and he realizes the symbolism of that having a democrat deliver this magisterial tribute to him but he also wants bob dole. those were the two people he thought would run for president 96 be the best candidates and they wanted them to have a platform. he stages that essentially.
wilson does run for president. he doesn't run very well but dole into getting that nomination in 96 which is basically what nixon predicted it was going to be. it's fascinating how his mind works. he's always thinking several steps ahead. >> hi i appreciate your scholarship and i want to ask this with all due respect because i know i'm in the nixon library after all. i heard the road of biography on general eisenhower and i just finished hugh edwards missed biography eisenhower's war and peace and in that there are tibbetts about nixon and it doesn't seem like nixon was very well-regarded by a president eisenhower. i know but one question was asked of general eisenhower what
his vice president nixon done to contribute to your -- and he said i will think of something. there's a legacy with his campaign against helen douglas and the epitaphs caught on tape during the watergate scandal. he has a very checkered dark past and you talk about his redemption and after his redemption. my question is what kind of a person was he really? what was he really in for? i can't quite make out what his subject that was unlike. >> before i answer that let me tell you my favorite story about eisenhower, this story of eisenhower and civil rights in the 2000 after the bush administration is over i went over to dallas to see by a former boss of the president in
his office in dallas and i took them a copy of my look pretty will never forget i handed him the book and he is a very blunt man. he said what's this? i said it's a book about eisenhower and civil rights. i said that's why you need to read the book. he did more than you think. in terms of what sort of the heart did nixon have, he had the same kind we all do there's good and bad in it and that's the human condition. that's why why this period is so fascinating to me because this period of his life the past 20 years is very humanizing. watergate, the book starts after watergate so i don't take a lot of time focusing on that as i did want that to be the part of the story. i wanted it to be okay watergate happened. we have had libraries of books written about it. what happened after that and how
they feel is a man in a human? he deal with alike in a bus with her there were successes and failures along the way. he certainly wanted to reestablish himself. he never use the word comeback or anything like that of his family or his friends that he wanted to be useful. he wanted to have a role to play for the rest of his life and the one thing he still had after he lost all the trappings of power in all the levers of power they still have the power of his mind in his the power of his ideas. it's a tribute to how effective that mind was and how effective his ideas were that he was able to persuade including the president of the different party that he had some things working worth looking into. this is someone who no one would touch them by the end of his life presidents are calling him and asking him what you think about this? that's quite a comeback and you know what his internal
motivations were i can't get inside his mind anybody that -- better than anybody else can. he certainly wanted to be relevant in the last 20 years of his life and do something meaningful and i think this book argues that he did. >> just as richard nixon has not been studied that much reagan's first presidency is also not been as duddy. he left office in 1989 and in november of 1994 when he released that letter and you think that would also be a good topic for a book? >> i do and there are a couple. fred surely has a book on the reagan bush presidency and all of its's new book which is cradle-to-grave with the new lot of material. there's an amazing story about
reagan doctors coming to the house in bel-air to tell him their diagnosis and while they are talking with mrs. reagan and others he gets up and goes over to a table and starts writing this letter. that's where he wrote the letter that was released to the public. he later gave it to an agent said i want you to clean us out and send it out as a press release. he released it as it was in his own handwriting. an amazing story. but i think in general post presidencies are fascinating because you're looking at with presidential biographies you are looking at the use of power with the supposed presidency were looked in at the loss of power in adjusting to life without that power. in this case in a much more dramatic way. i think it's a fascinating topic and we also now have presidents
who are living longer lives. based on his genetics george w. lived well into his 90s in the 70s now. barack obama is the healthy fairly young person sets its definitely an area of scholarship definitely under done than there should be more of it. >> a couple of questions. did he reach out to the former president correspondence and ask if they needed help. what are two things that they really learned. this man was a visionary. he was at the cusp of so many different things. he was ahead of the curve and how is a complicated? >> the finances are difficult to track down. obviously his book was a bestseller they made a lot of money doing that.
the frost interviews were 600,000-dollar gig so there was money out there but in terms of his relationship with the president he never that i saw ever called in said hey let me help you out. it was usually in the form of a memo or letter that said in the case of reagan you know you did great in the election and here are some things to think about and of course he names a bunch of people, al haig as secretary of state. it usually came in riding and that sort of builds their relationship and then the phonecalls start. the phonecalls are typically from the white house and they are calling him for device. it's bill clinton who reaches out to him in 1993. it's a very subtle process in a very gradual process that began the thing that's driving it is
just saying things that matter. he's saying things that no one thought about before padilla the eye example that i gave earlier or even the saturday morning radio address. is offering ideas that presidents and for the most part their staff find very useful so it's a real tribute to how uses intellectual ability in the last few years that he became a trusted comp.. >> china on the world stage is extremely aggressive. should president nixon v. today what kind of advice or comments would nixon have two offer today? >> you know it's hard to say. again nixon viewed china in the context of the cold war. that context is sort have gone away now.
it's very difficult to judge that because it's motivating so much of what he said. in some ways the tiananmen episode is insightful. shows him not willing tell them to knock it off when they are out of line. he certainly believes a nation of more than a billion people now that they were a player on the world stage and they were going away and we might as well have some kind of relationship with them or her own good. he would try to preserve that relationship as best he could and with tough love sprinkled in as well. so great question though. >> hi. i did hear you on hugh hewitt but anyway i was curious with
chuck colson becoming a christian after watergate if he had contact with nixon and the other one was i think i am right in nixon and carter came to the iran-contra hearing and whoever was -- said it was not organized but nixon -- and that has stuck with me for so many years that he was a brilliant man. do you have anything like that in the book? >> on the colts in question first they did remain friendly and colson remained a defender of nixon to the very end. he was. preoccupied with the prison ministry that there is some relationship there is documented
in the book. the iran-contra hearing is fascinating and i write about quite a bit in the book. he says nixon had the unique perspective on scandal and i don't know of this is the ecstatic story you're referring to but it's in the book where he is delivering a speech to republican senators. the "washington post", it leaks to the post and they write a story about this and he basically says to the republican senators you need to have reagan's back. you need to stand up for him and it's one thing he wasn't trying to do anything wrong and don't cut and run from him on this. it's fascinating to watch him reflecting on his own experience i'm not aware of the carter story at all. carter is not somebody that nixon thought very highly of.
it's well-documented in the book. he is just sort of mortified at the hostage crisis in mortified by how shaw was treated before that. but he sort of census it's all setting the stage for reagan and for big things to happen and of course he's right about that. carter does appear in the book but not a terribly flattering light. >> a couple decades after richard nixon to coming relevant we are learning that he has become relevant in foreign-policy. do you have any feeling that he had any sense that it wasn't public knowledge in this lifetime but he was satisfied
that he was relevant or not? >> i think you certainly sensed how far he had made it back. i don't know that a person with that kind of intellect i don't know of satisfied as ever the word i would use. i think you're always wanting a little bit more but he certainly realized he had come a long way and he certainly realized that the policy he had been a part of as president namely in fighting the cold war and the policy that he had helped craft with reagan ordered by his reagan on in his post-presidency he certainly lived to see the triumph in the cold war. there's a story in the book and i retell it where you know he says remember when i had the kitchen debate and khrushchev said well -- in that moment of
realizing he had been on the right side. the west had one. he got to live to see that and i think that was pretty remarkable for him. he enjoyed that and he appreciated that but in terms of his personal comeback i don't know that satisfied his word he would use. he certainly believed he had become relevant again and certainly enjoyed the app to use his expertise and his intellectual powers but i imagine he probably wanted to do more. >> thank you for giving us insight on the president. one of the things i've noticed about him was he came from very humble beginnings. unlike most present they have great support before they get into office and nixon moved from senator on through to vice president and the trials and all
of that gave him more domination but i believe the man had vision they were so far out beyond what we are thinking at the time. i think he saw 750 million chinese for 25 years. he saw them teaming up. what an overpowering force that could have been and he saw the opportunity to talk to china at a very important time. that said to the russians we have to talk about a sense of moderation but i think he was very perceptive and i also think when the gold standard was in trouble we lost tons of gold in the end of the 60s so they had to take us off the gold standard my question is don't you feel
very satisfied that the changes he made because of the contributions he made including the epa and clean air i can't believe the man wasn't totally satisfied and live longer, don't you? >> again i think you certainly appreciated how far he had come. i've had the privilege of being around elected officials. i worked for the president. they are wired a little differently than you and i are as a general rule. they look in the mirror in the morning and say i want to be president. it's not a very rational thing to do honestly. my sense is he probably wanted a little bit more and it nothing else and this is in the book, he talks about his term being abbreviated into his presidency being abbreviated and not being able to finish it.
i think some of those feelings come out and he wished he had been able to finish it but this was sort of the next best thing. again it's a remarkable story. >> thank you very much. let's give him a round of applause. [applause] i think i heard at least a half a dozen times in the book the book is fortunately available for sale in the museum store. up a copy anyway down the hall and casey will be up in the front lobby to autograph it. thank you for coming in we will see you next time. thank you very much. [applause]