tv Jim Mattis Call Sign Chaos CSPAN October 13, 2019 5:11am-6:17am EDT
gastonian and ps, not only african americans soldiers who fought for the revolution, african cuban, afro mexican and indebted to scholars who have been hiding in plain sight of the information that i was able to correlate. >> great, i want to thank you both for writing the wonderful books, important books and sharing such important information today and i hope that you will help me in thanking [inaudible conversations] .
>> it's good to see such a full house here. we are more than happy to take pictures of your seats but turn off the flash. but your ringers on silent. if you want to post anything on social media please tag at politics pros. imed the partnered events manager at politics and prose in coming up on a friday night
that is a joint effort with george washington university also jim madison conversation and a few other exciting events and with malcolm gladwell. with the podcast on npr. we have samantha power and james comey on september 16. and then talk about the year of the monkey tickets are on sale now i hope to see you. and those who served more than four decades as an infantry
officer. and then to return to the northwest a distinguished fellow at the hoover institution at stanford. from wide-ranging leadership roles should command a quarter of a million troops across the middle east along the way he recounts his foundational experience as a leader was acting the lessons he has learned and the importance of allies and the strategic dilemmas facing the nation. he makes it clear why america must return to strategic footing to fight wars so tonight with direct leadership and executive leadership and strategic leadership. in the first part to recall his early experience leading marines into battle and in the
second part to explore what it means to adapt leadership style to ensure intent by the most junior troops and then those challenges and techniques leadership at a strategic level where military leaders reconcile with political leaders human aspirations where the consequences are severe or catastrophic. a memoir following along for marine recruit to four-star general a story about he threw constant study and action developed the unique leadership philosophy making him into the man he is today. general madison be in conversation tonight with
david brooks writing for the new york times and a commentator on pbs news hour and nbc meet the pres press. the author of on paradise drive and how we have now and always have. in march 2011 coming out with his third book the social animal the hidden sources of love of character and achievement the number one new york times bestseller and the latest, the second mountain will not stop flying off the shelves since published in april please help me to welcome to the stage secretary jim matus. [applause]
said this is the first time i've ever seen an author work the crowd before the event. [laughter] also the campaign i loved reading the book and there are many surprises and the first is that you are hitchhiking at age 13 around the west. so give us the emotional tone of your family and what type of how she grew up in. >> i was not brought up in a military family we like to be outdoors. the father one spot in the merchant marine with the army
e.g. to cryptoclerk going off to south africa. and is a place to be explored they didn't know i was hitchhiking at first. with a more trusting time we could hitchhike around america and not knowing where they would stop. and then to pick up and go to the next town and although not the most devoted student for perhaps one of the hardest working people i have ever met. went to that kick in just enjoying being around people but and i love books but it
seemed to structure to me and everybody has a different way of learning but when you join the marines everybody has to read certain books. there's a whole new reading list. when generals make generals they are handed a new reading list and go back to work. they are not interested in your mid life crisis. and little by little i didn't like a lot of the jobs of the marines but i love to be around young infantrymen who would do the dirtiest and most dangerous jobs i love being around young marines called into the minefield. still on their teens probing looking for something they
didn't want to find. and then i stuck around for 40 years. >> this is a love letter to the marine corps. so and then in high school or college doing all that stuff then it turns into something different. they are all volunteers and for whatever damage is done to our country i probably would not have joined the marines. i cannot say that for sure but i doubt it. had it not been for the draft.
but then even at a young age you're not fully a man then go off to canada in 1969 we thought we'd never be allowed to come home and then you go off to do your patriotic duty but then that's when i found the marines really valued excellence with that obstacle course and then realized i could beat him easily. i still beat them i didn't get everything i needed but then to drop down with this gunnery sergeant and said you are not giving 100 percent i am fed up
actually accused me of being a communist. [laughter] and said that me make it clea clear, would you give 100 percent i will be 100 percent satisfied. it was someone that big is in-your-face then you get the idea. so then you start learning about the word commitment. and wherever you go it stays with you with a very formative experience. >> there is one passage in here and personal sensitivities are irrelevant. so i read that sentence i thought the last six years crumbled because that doesn't make people feel bad as a high
and then there is an officer and then you busted him but then everybody is doing everything that they can see you don't dump more of the work on somebody else. that you could be a marine or quarter but you cannot be both. that i will coach you and be with you all the way through and then he decided to test it and to see how many students are here tonight.
but i will not even waste my time as a coach and that is what i did 95 percent of my time. i was a coach but i will not waste my time coaching somebody who is not humble. if they are not humble to recognize the need coaching, if you are not or i'm not that humble and any organization you don't get to be a leader because of a rank on your caller or your business card. that determines if you are a leader. and on the battlefield they will follow pfc. who doesn't know what he's doing.
and then the last officer in the chain of command you must represent all the orders that come down to those that are in our line of work. and the platoon sergeant for the british indies and the caribbean corporal johnson and only 21 years old. with a name like wayne johnson they call him john wayne. and what an officer doesn't do. and the also corporal and with
the 1973 timeframe. and so he was stern so to get down there to show a marine was having trouble and in a few sharp words get some attention. and then with the staff sergeant 15 years in the marine corps he is from a québec immigrant so i was learning about the immigrant role from the us military and it was broadening because somehow growing up in my hometown and then to be native born. because the military and then
those comments all shapes and sizes in all parts of the world. and the affection for the marines. >> so you have to be unpopular. were you always closer with her always distance they come as close to the line that separates them from their troops as they can. and be themselves without giving up 1 ounce of their authority because there will come a time when the chips are down and everything will sell
them don't get up and you will need that authority. and it took me 25 years to learn the word affection. if you don't have that as a leader but i knew that the troops respected their leaders that why were they as good as 150 men infantry company? so me as a two star with 29 sailors and marines in four months and those were killed
or injured. and then al anbar province in the sunni triangle. day in and day out. so wet held them together was the affection for each other that no matter what happened that we keep fighting and fighting. the affection is the opposite. that is why you will see the military so anti- anything inside combat assault units so you can read in some old textbooks when favoritism brings them from right out underneath so the point is it
does not rest on any sort of favoritism if you go around to make people get up and move if you tell people the first thing you have to do is jump into a mud puddle you don't want them to be reluctant to hit the deck or when they are shot at they also find if you've been honest with your troops and they will stick with you for example deep inside the city halfway through the enemy is on the run then we are told to pull out and in the television camera than the machine gunner stays and then to say this is terrible you must feel terrible.
now you are told to pull back you must feel terrible. then to look at the camera and says it doesn't matter we would go somewhere else and kill them. it shows the spirit of the xiong folks who sign up and then to protect this experiment we call america. so if we had not been honest then to say yes it's terrible then morale goes down you know right away you will lose more people. >> so on the grand study in 1940 and following them for life and that social economic
against us and had plenty of help it turns out we were outnumbered so we could even bring additional troops so after we took over the district from the 82nd airborne division they wander into the battlefield to be very upset about this sort of stuff into the town of falluja they got killed and burned in their bodies hung up and people were very angry. it was tribal town and then we found those who had done it and we got the bodies back and find the people who had do it done and then we would kill them.
i didn't want to charge into a city of 350,000 people after a couple days of arguing i received the order you will go and say in the fight so i knew my boss and the boss above him agreed with me and they fought the good fight with washington and that's why it's called orders. it is not called likes. you don't have to like it but you have to do it. [laughter] and say i will do it as well as if i thought about it and embrace it because if you go into something like that halfway then people will suffer so we had as many evacuated as we could and then we went in swinging i would just tell you the one
qualification is okay i'm going but don't stop me deep inside the city the enemy has information warfare with that artillery rounds and then to fire the artillery but it was if we were doing that with other networks here in this town and footage and those that bring stuff into them. and then to be stopped deep inside the city and we were losing people and then we got orders to pull back. you just have to do the best you can because sometimes life doesn't go the way you wanted to go so you give it
100 percent. >> so if they bust through walls how do you command quick. >> first of all you have to make sure you lay out very clearly what you want. the commander's intent is what it is called so my aim is to destroy the terrorist foothold inside falluja with least cost innocent as possible and i will bring in more battalions as soon as possible but you must move fast enough. and then what you do you go around and talk to the units and then you fold them together and then ask questions and then go back and forth and then what is the
concern to have a unit ready to go. and those assault units you can take your hands off the steering wheel. if you trust your young officers they keep those social energy going that young ncos are doing their jobs so they don't have to go in that way they know what they're doing we don't call that command or control. the marines believe in command and feedback. we have done i use in the front lines listening on what
happened from 100 different directions to take your hands off the wheel and do what needs to be done. >> and those that were so terrified you could hear each other's teeth chattering. have you felt that fear with the course of your career on the battlefield or somewhere else crack. >> absolutely. you are trained to overcome it. there are things you could do to overcome it. but there is nothing strange about fear. it will be there as part of every fight. the first time i got shot at i couldn't taste for three days. it scared the hell out of me. [laughter] that you are well enough trained of what guides you
forward is you will be very very tired. i cannot even explain to you how tired you get in combat. some of you know what i'm referring to. referring to. . . . . anything anyone can get tired enough that it just does not work. what keeps you going is the affection and love for one another that i don't care what happens i will not leave him uncovered.
and they are good at socializing people to that commitment when they come in. you go to fight with a lot of confidence. >> i was her tears and you went there and he wrote a book. >> what was it like, this was a revolutionary document, what was it like writing a book back home while the marines were fighting in iraq, is that part of the rotation and what was a process line because they did revolutionize doctrines. >> it took advantage of the lessons learned, but this is the normal behavior of a learning organization. if the organization is learning you bring your people back, dave and i were old friends and we serve together as colonels and now as to stars and next to three stars he was at fort leavenworth and i was at
quantico. we had to write something and we said okay let's map out the chapters, our staff did it and we said okay the army is going to take these chapters in marines these chapters and we meet just like the senate at the house of representatives. [laughter] >> that works so well. [laughter] >> we could give them a lesson. we turned out the book very quickly and the most important thing was something called design, go back to einstein when confronting how to save the earth, how would he compose his thinking and he said i would spend 55 minutes defining the problem and save the world in five minutes. so the murphree hunter marines got to define the problem, the champagne design chapter, as you go into these issues whether incorporations or school districts in your local communities, wherever you are at, take the time to define the
problem for level of satisfaction. do not go charging into a war and then pull a statue down in the capital and say what we do now. that's not a good idea. we put the book out and we think we learned a lot while we were there, and we put it out and change the training, doctrine, weapons, uniforms and mostly the cultural aspects of the services going in and once we got enough people we were able to turn it around. >> one of my favorite sections was when you were told you're going to invade iraq. in my favorite passage of the book is when you say if you haven't read hundreds of books are functionally illiterate. that's good for politics and prose.
[laughter] but you found time to read at every smal spot and every day or career. >> the marine corps expected it. they don't mind if you make mistakes, i made a lot of mistakes, i got chewed out, they do not look out for your ego when they go after you. but they also promoted me every time i made a mistake and i think the marine corps made it clear that they expected me too study but they did not expect me not to make mistakes. and for all of you because you all be leaders of something if you want to be, that is your choice, that's opportunity you will have in theirs leaders at all ranks in society and the jobs and families, make sure you know the difference between a mistake and the lack of discipline. in the naval service, the marines we used to say if you run the ship you will get hammered, you're going down and
if you're senior you're probably gonna go out, if you're young you get a second chance. but a mistake, human beings make mistakes, i have made a lot of mistakes. let me tell you my mistakes, in the middle of the open desert i commend 1250 sailors, marines and air a arab were going to a minefield in the middle of an open desert i get surrounded. that is almost impossible. i was at the top of my game but the wrong game. [laughter] and as i went into this, you know when you guys are shooting this way and for shooting that way, you are not really okay. later on the marines got mad about mess too. and i said you are just checking
asked us if we still had it, but no i got messed up. i got called over because we had to break through that night because the iraqi army was retreating in front of us. they said you have to get there and have to stop them. it was getting late and it was going to be difficult. he called us together and when we got done and w we were going back and getting the orders, he called over and said hey jim, did you learn to him today? and i said yes or, he said okay. did not say anymore, do not have to rub it in he wanted to make sure that he saw it anyone to make sure it was a big deal but he did not make a big deal of it. he thought that's enough, he knows and going to another
attack and don't need a song and dance about tactics. i learned a lesson. if you can help people get their mistakes and use them as learning opportunities then in any way it does not accept lack of discipline. but for crying out loud let's not have a no mistakes world, i went to jail twice before i went into the marines. and i will tell you the marines forget that too. [laughter] >> when you make a mistake or decision and there are losses, do you torture yourself about it or just learn the lesson and move on. >> you do not forget when guys lose their lives for what you did. you just have to live with it. let me ask two final questions that are political.
first about president obama they were places in the book where you did not think they were fighting the right civilian leadership. describe that relationship and your overview thoughts of him. >> i found it curious, i would be in meetings with him but here's the thing, you heard when we were introduced that at times military leaders have to bring wars but he referred to it as a room realities into the discussion the politicians were trying to go for peace and prosperity in healthcare and educated and all the things we
care about, we defend the country so can have those things. somehow we have to bring the thinking into the decisions made in war which is completely alien to what we are trained to do in the beautiful democracy and bring the harmony of her team together which i hope we are. so if president obama, i thought if we pull all the troops out, the cia came down to brief me before i went up to the discretion of the white house in mesa, they would brief and say here's what the enemy will do in all this, one time i'm sitting there and all my admirals and generals are sitting in the briefer's are there briefing me and sometimes i would not same thing for a long minute or something or two minutes after a brief. so i'm sitting there in my guys are smiling knowing somebody is gonna break the silence. in the young lady reading the brief from cia said let me put it this way general, you pull all our troops out of the end of the year and by the summer of
2014, this was in 2011, the summer of 2014 al qaeda group stronger than ever more realm resourced the number and more vicious than ever will come out, i'm not sure which one i think i know but i'm not gonna tell you what i think i know i'm just telling you they will come and you have to put troops back in. our intelligence community guards anything you read in the newspaper in terms of one of the best in the world. and maybe not in each region, so i would say that message and on the issues of iran, the president decided i would go. in the words are used are the president writing to the commission you get and i bear him no rank, he had the right to
do it. i left there in 2013 and 14 months later we had to go back in with millions of people turned into refugees by isis that the cia briefer had briefed on, 50000 dead and wounded in the first months of what was going on, cities falling girls as young as eight and seven years old being raped and made slaves, that the catastrophic result of a decision. so i gave what i thought was the strongest of you nation of why we must not do this but if you believe in the constitution and uphold the constitution then you keep faith with it and carry out
the orders of the civilians unless you think their immorta e immoral. you do not suddenly think that you start telling the civilians when were going to work and when were not going to work. you just have to deal with it. >> the question before we get to your questions. on the book tour, roughly 500 journalists asked to the dish on president trump. [laughter] and so far is 0 - 500. yet i'm going to try. as i heard the argument as why you don't want to discuss a president, do you think military people should not discuss this, but you have no military experience with president trump. so i'm not aware that political secretaries have ahead and
hesitancy i'm not talking about a sitting president. isn't that the right president to serve. >> were all formed by our experiences. where i come from, you ride from the brand in the brand of the u.s. constitution says if a man is elected or woman commander-in-chief, there the commander-in-chief. if the republican or democrat republican called you and says they want you to do something, you don't sit on the wall, just go to work, if you think you're ready to do the job, roll up your sleeves, go and give it your best shot. >> when you leave and administration over a policy difference and you write that policy difference in a public letter and you laid out then he
said why he left, that's all there is to it. it was alliances, adversaries and i was upfront about it. i had a straightforward talk with the president. we had a straightforward talk walking out of the office. it was not an adversarial relationship that we had. i was very open when you leave office we have 1 million troops right now in many deployed as they and they are fighting in afghanistan and they do not need
a former cabinet official coming out and distracting from what the secretary of state and secretary of defense and the president is saying to you right now. i do not believe that is helpful. the french call it a duty of quiet. i am not against coming out and talking about strategy or policy disagreement because they did it with the last several president. i make clear what i think what we did with iraq under president bush. but i don't believe that people with a military background could come out and make political assessments of civilian leaders. george washington said you will not do what you are trying to do here in these were a legitimate right. he went out and looked him right in the eye and said you will not do it. in world war ii great army general said when the general retires his uniform, he should retire his tongue when it comes
to political matter. when i was introduced here tonight, and talk to some you in the line, many people called me general. let me tell you i'm no longer a general but in many people's minds i'm still a general. when the time comes that our military people start going out, if they want to run for office i am all for it. but you don't go out and take part in partisan politics and start seeing how many generals you can line up on this person versus that person. our military is the most mired institution in terms of the confidence of the american people year-end and year out for a political. when we start getting into the politics of it, i think the bipartisan nature -- i had 87% of the republican democrats vote
for a record-breaking last december before i left. 87%. do you think that would've happened if we are politicizing the department of defense, senator vanderburg michigan, late 1940s, right wing republican senator is challenged in his home state, why are you working with terrible democrats. president truman and says the defense of our country is nonpartisan in the quote you will hear often as politics stops at the water's edge. i stayed with that tradition and i hear that secretary carter is a good friend and my predecessor, under president obama refused to engage in political discussions and would order the military officers to be next to him on capitol hill. not to answer question that a congressman was asking because because it was pure political.
none of us have any fear that the military moving into the political realm in an authoritarian world. most countries were not like that. i have gone on too long. [laughter] [applause] so now will move on to questions i wrote questions on note cards. the military awards metal for physical kerch, is there ever way to give awards for moral courage? >> i think the awards are a promotion and by the time you get up in rank in the armed forces, you really do get promoted for your moral courage. it is not just because you know how to do the science of war in
the art of war. a matter of fact i've set up many selection boards and by the time you lieutenant colonel and you always be promoted to captain. when year four-star general you will be the one into star generals. in the surest way to get passover, the easiest way to be told we will not promote that guy or gal is if they have shown a lack of integrity or moral courage. it is the selection because any institution gives the behavior award and if the institution gets rotten you can have a problem with this. it's why you have to be alert to keep your personal integrity. the way the award that we would give would be probably promotion. >> as a junior officer in cyber icy most of them struggle with
technology. and the cost of dod as a result how do we fix this before it's too late? >> i think one of the things you have to do is make sure your organization is ready for its time. a few years ago we set up cyber command i commanded u.s. forces command and we now have a command. what you have now people are being promoted in seals and officers for their skill in that very area. what you have to do if you see technology coming forward like this, you have to organize the institution so you start promoting people based on their capability. if you walked in to certain operation rooms you would see the intelligent people that are
coordinating the strik strikes m the air force is coordinating army missiles and you would see sitting next to them some of the cyber folks sitting next to them and the supporting arms as we integrated all. some of them are civilians sitting at the headquarters in some of the guys had more earrings than any girl i dated. [laughter] but they were darn good at the job and i love having them there. >> what the greatest national security for the united states. >> in terms of terrorism, it's
an ambien threat, it's not going away real soon, it reflects other things and we will have to fight it and try to set the condition of education and economic opportunity that will reduce the need that they think they have a goal for that violent way. we will have to fight the rest of them. the bigger threat or reap tower compcompetition. they want to give authority to themselves over surrounding nations, economic decisions, security decisions, diplomatic decisions. and china there president would stand in the rose garden with president obama and they would not militarize the island and russia that would invade and take it over. we have recognize what russia is improving. and that's what i would see it
now, terrorism goes on, young china and russia and i think it is some way that can make it more dangerous in the short-term but the long-term as i told my chinese counterpart, we're going to have to find a way between uni, our nations to manage our differences because were two nuclear armed powers and we don't want to be as stupid as the european price in the century and engulf the war in a war. whenever hear about this, and a power that is big and is got to go to war, number one it is not always gone to war. in the nuclear age he would've written a different book. [laughter] i am old enough, i've talked to him. but i think there is a bigger threat to me, go back and read abraham lincoln as a young man's list in 1958 when he talks aboug
from europe or africa that is going to come over here and across the blue ridge and the ohio river, even if they have napoleon you know the little short guy. he says they cannot do it. if working to destroy this country we are going to do it ourselves. in the bigger concern i have right now is twofold they are not maintaining the fiscal discipline of the country and we can turn this over to you young folks of this increasing debt and we are going to take all these benefits on board and you have to deal with it. we will transfer to you and by the way as big as a record-breaking budget of the pentagon, and probably by next
year we will spend more than that every year servicing the debt. spending that money to moscow or beijing or tokyo or whatever it is going to the people who bought our bond to go invest the money, we will send the money back overseas, no nation in history has retained freedom, military security that could not keep the house in order, but even more worrisome is what lincoln warned us about, we're separating into the tribes and we won't talk with each other and contemptuous of each other, we don't think the person that we disagree with might actually be right once in a while and as we go into this more contentious role, we become almost perpetually and electric. an election, i'm smart, you're dumb, i'm right, you're wrong. not always nice and civil. and i except that.
especially for you young folks, that is not the right model to stay in governing retry to divide and get yourself elected. once the election is over you have to go into governance and that is about unity not dividing. we have to come together and spend the 55 minutes, roll our sleeves up to find the problem and let's take him to do that and follow. that worries me more than anything, this is a problem with all of our laws. look at what's one in london. this is becoming dangerous. we have to understand experiment of democracy can fail if we don't think it's valuable and precious. >> what advice would you give your younger self? >> don't mess with the police.
[laughter] probably for you young folks in the audience, don't wait until you have my color appear to do something. you're pretty impatient now and that's a good thing, do your homework and make a difference now. don't wait until later. i bring this up because we need fresh ideas and bigger, you don't need to be running for national office, run for school board, what could be better in your local area than the young people growing up will have a good education. run for city manager or become the mayor. do things where you rolling up your sleeves and putting your thumbprint on it because we need that right now. i'm part of the luckiest generation. i was raised by greatest generation. i'm no not so sure what we are turning over is so good from what we got. you need to step up quickly and
start challenging people with questions and be impatient and say we want government going on here. we are no longer accepting you can sit on your hands when there's problems. take the time to listen to others and make certain that you define the problem well enough then you can go to work and solve them. >> do believe the taliban deal is likely to result in more or less stability in afghanistan? >> i will not comment on current situations. i don't know enough. i know we have great negotiators here in one thing about it for all of us, we will have to decide what we stand for and what we will not stand for. when we got to afghanistan, i wouldn't right after 9/11 and i remember kites being flown over
the taliban. i remember how proud the children were and especially the girls as they walked down the street on the first day of school walking by heavily armed u.s. soldiers, marines, sailors, seals, foreign troops, because we attacked other allies that came to our aid here in america. when new york city and washington, d.c. was a tact. and we carried our values forward. now for the first time in the young girls lives, they can go to school, it worries me if we do not think those rights are valuable for everybody in the world and i'm not saying we have to go around being the world policeman. that's what alliance are for. we need to keep our moral voice and leadership for most. >> can you discuss the interplay of climate change and national security and what do you think of the solutions like carbon dividend plan that your secretary has came up with. >> i think it makes sense. but let me talk for a moment to those who are skeptical about climate change, i used to tell
people i am not going to get into because that because i was in the military, were going to have to deal with it, there is now a new open body of water that from a military point of view we have to deal with because it is no longer were used to be. this is just science, i will not get into the politics of it. but now that i'm in a position where i am no longer just on the military side of it. i would say to those who are skeptical, even if it might not be the case, if there is a chance that it is climate change and can be as essentially catastrophic as some think it could be. wouldn't it be good to have an insurance policy? . . .
and at least two about 80%. i live in such a skeptical way today thato edit a magnificent f you can reach it but then we've got to do something about it. in terms of national security there is a lot of reason to look at what happened as a part of the civil war goes as relating to a drought and sometimes it always looks like a drought over there. but it drove many small farmers off the land and not enough seats in the classroom, people were angry, a fruit seller set themselves on fire in tunis and
you can draw at least some conclusions that this has indirectly fed into much of the discontent so again my question to the skeptics would be what didn't you at least take out an insurance policy? >> happiness is to one thing wholeheartedly and your life is more coherent than any other i've encountered. the marine corps has been your mission, belief system, moral community, you are out of active service in the marine corps, out of secretary defens secretary ds bernie sanders asks you to come back into the arena. [laughter] what is your calling now for this? >> the reason i wrote the book as i wanted to pass along what i learned along the way that wireless was the absolute joy of serving along those that kept me
there it was more than just the marines. it's how we did the observations and the spending of your money, the combat we went through and they really had a love affair with the u.s. constitution and enjoyed reading it. you read something else in there that's great and it's the idea that this is so precious that it probably can't even be talked how precious. you've almost got to send it as you read it and think of these guys sitting there starting with the declaration and when they sign up, they know they are signing their lives on the line.
to have this experiment it seems so precious to me that i will commit whatever i can to help young people become the leaders they want to be. i don't care if it is their business or diocese were small-town or wherever that is. i don't have all the answers but i can tell. >> i don't know whether to think u.s. secretary, general or jim. thank you. [applause]
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