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tv   Key Capitol Hill Hearings  CSPAN  December 30, 2014 9:00pm-11:01pm EST

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being the presiding judge the trial judge will instruct the jurors in this case. what does it mean to instruct the the jurors?urors here jurors are not legal professionals, they tonight have any special knowledge of the law be it of rape, be it of murder,f be it of self defense part of the court's role at the end of the hearing of the evidence to instruct the jury, educate the jury, direct the jury about the so law so that jurors can weigh the evidence and ultimately, the of question of celia's guilt s against the law as the court instructs it. i want to look at the state law and then, at the actual instructions in this case. we learn i think from this, thewhich ways in which the powerful role ocal
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that a local judge's interpretation of the law, the powerful role that plays in determining celia's fate.recall, her lawyers have attempted to e introduce evidence that celia while she killed newsome, is not guilty of first degree murder. an individual who happeneds him immi or herself of the imminent victory of a felony to be in the imminent fear of bodily harm has the right to respond to that in self defense. the argument is that celia se while she killed nusome did in ment so in rape or defilement. the key to determining whether rm
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or notin celia was infact in imminent fear of being raped. let's read it together. every person who shall take any n who woman unlawfully against her will, force, menace or duress, nd by compel her to marry him, any other person to be defiled, upon conviction thereof should be f, imprisoned in the penitentiary not less than three or exceeding five years. what are the key words here for our consideration? any woman, unlawfully against her will. how do you read this?lawful as itly applies to celia? >> it makes the assumption that woman in question has lived, in ill
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fact. i know that as a slave no such recog will exists, that is why they cl didn't recognize her self defense claim.man a >> itga is any woman against her ns will. the key questions here, that court must implicit lyly ask itself, is celia a woman with ill will? does she hass a will, such that shehe c can resist? >> s >>. >> to orderl something to the es, but slaves but that upon convictioneof sa therefore, those two things -- >> here, every person, being including nusome, upon coul conviction, could nusome have
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been convicted? could he have been convicted in the same local court for the defilement of celia? >> less so about her will and about more, if it was unlawfully against her will. >> slpt, excellent.bout excellent, close reading.s here we have a judge a slave
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holding man enslaved woman, is the will of the master absolute. that celia has no will to resist. is the phrase, any woman actually implicitly qualified? does it mean any free woman? any white woman?n. all of these things are questions, right? in celia's in charging the jury jury giving the jury instructions instructions. and the defense lawyer they their remations for charges to be proposed. man
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here is the wonderful manu script document, they haven't asked you to hear, we have allison's excellent cellen transkripgzs, this is the one ofthe ju the jury instructions the key y jury instruction that is oposed b proposed by celia's team. this instructions is refused by the judge. he declines to direct the jury in this way.net the the defense argues if the jury believes from the evidence that celia did kill nusom, that the ct killing was necessary to protect yourself from forced sexual t intercourse with her, and there was imminent danger of forced er in sexualth behavior by nusome, they won't find her guilty of murder in the first degree.wi
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>> it brings together the th statue, with the defense, self defense, and makes an argument fo provides a frame for how the t jury might intrepret this evidence. this is thead argument made by what celia's lawyers, and what we ere recognize here is that this is celia's story. st the story that she has told over time, bit by bit.t, but ultimately, again, and again. fi when she finds herself in such danger, she asks in self to defense. not to intentionally kill nusome but to defend herself against sexual assault.te heres celia's narrative her informs and makes its way into
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the proposed jury instructions. >> while he was standing on the ing floor, talking to her, she struck him with a stick which was a dangerous weapon knock him down and struck him again after he fell and killed him, it is murder in the first degree. it is an extraordinary jury becau instructions, it is so specific to the facts.h here, the court by way of the prosecutor's proposal, adopted a version of the law that is almost a blue print in a sense, for celia's story except that conclusion is counter. count counter to the conclusion the
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defense team is -- defendant in case the jury is not clear defendant had no right to kill him. he came to her cabin and talking to her about sexual intercourse with her or anything else. you see here this moment, the court, by way of the crafting of jury instructions is now now closing the possibilities. narrows of possibilities for the outcome in this trial. very little space in which this ght jury might maneuver if it otherw otherwise expected to exonerate the celia.t the court almost in essence says, if she did the act, there is no defense available to her. know s we know she did the act. >> would this court desigzcision was
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it north particular to enslaved woman, was peter's question. it is a good question. not quite a court decision.ave here a jury instructions. powerful and a powerful a pow framing, but the decision if you will, is ultimately the verdict timate of guilty rendered by the jury itself.icque to your center question is thiscel particular to celia to enslaved women? what do you think? when you look at the language? what do you think?uction an instructions that could be given in the case of any woman? >> i think it is particularly on't k
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celia, we don't know if, we would have to look up more. this is specific to her case. lause alongside other similar cases and other jurisdictions, and part of what we learn is that this is a moment in which not only missouri, but other slave-holding states, the most memorable, mississippi, are grap plipg, openly with the question of of sexual assault, rape, enslaved women, and concluding that this sort of rule this conc sort of configuration is specific to enslaved women.o women specific to women who are not free. there is the qualifier. the defendant who was his slave.
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around slavery, and sexual violence.here. it fed into the social s influences, not only does it implicate a black man of being but violent. that is controversy. also to, to grant celia's claim of self defense, would set legal to precedent that would have to be missou recognized not only in the i state of momo, but in courts one of the questions that this
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choice by the judge leaches us with, what would be the complications to conclude an otherwise. our readings, more generally, ha marlene and others suggested to us the ways in which this sort of circumstance, this story, that begins with the sucksual by assault of enslaved women by an owner, is all too common of a story. even more so to be able to defend themselves a couple more so
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things, i will end to talk about where we are with the celia casecase i in some sense.you all you have all read the 1991 bookand ha that popularized celia's story, and made it possible for us to teach celia, but the work continues. n celia is still not as well tha remembered as the other 1850s missouri case, involving slavery. dread scott versus sanford. a case many of you know about in which an enslaved man sues for his freedom, having been free brought to free teterritory, de ultimatelyci decided by the supreme court, that he is a slave. the dread scott case is one we c study and read, and situate in itua the cannon of slavery and law. celia, perhaps not yet.
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it has not quite made it to that sort of space. now deceased a long standing, orney, much admired civil rights attorney in st. louis, momompt she learned of celia's story h and became much admiring of celia, wanted to work to help to remember celia and to bring her story to light. him to meet him learn more about
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his work on celia's portrait. he is a moment in which we have local figures working before it becomes part of mar gret bush wilson's personal connection. it is on the one hand about ord an restoring that visibility.ligh for marg gret bush wilson, celiawils is an inspiration. we get strength from your courage, in our own time. as we face strooef, we take
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strength from your counselor.courag to be courageages in our own lifetime, in fulton, missouri th for the last, 2005 to, 2011 or dents 12 a narrative. racism then, racism today we still have racism in fulton. a celia, again takes on a symbolic value for teling it a cal c long history of racism in this local community where she lived and where she died.
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finally, two stage productions, one locally in fulton, the other be in london england. and both dramatic dramatizations.but, mass audiences, in both instances, playwrights to give celia words we know she never spoke, from all the records a story, reaching large audiences becoming fictionalized.ctionali you remember when we talked about hariet tubman and the hillary clinton moment when she quotes her, in the dangers of fictionalization. the scholar is doing the case coming partly of trying to understand the new archives the additional
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archival materials that go beyond the court record, like the newsome state inventories, om f and the site of the nusome farm.chive as much as i think i wanted to end telling you the historians are the bastion of social science, we won't get caught up in romance, memory or method or it fiction, when it comes to ceilia, i will leave you to sc contemplate this scene our team out on the what is now federal is lapped in fulton, the site where the nusome family and farm stood. the left foundation stones, open fields, old trees, historians wantings, in some sense to walk th that walk.
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the 60 paces from the house to the cabin. to in some sense trying to inhabit ceilia's world to try to be closer in some sense to her and her experience. an i think we would all say, there wasn't much evidence here. it was powerful to talk by looking at the case, you will read the biog graphy of truth where history tries to pull apart history from myth in that extraordinary figure. have a great day. i will see you on thursday.ur
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fields, american artifacts, and and the presidency looking at the policies and legacies of the commander in chief. what college professionals are delving into . next, mers he university professor chester fontenot examines the life and legacy of booker t. washington. he talks about washington's early years at tuskegee university and looked at his ideological platform which encouraged african-americans to establish their own economic base while washington helped create many institutions for african-americans such as the national negro business league,
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he also had opposition to his ideas, both during his lifetime and since. fontenot also compared ideas and tactics of booker . >> some of you disagree he was the figure i insisted that he wh is. i made a statement in class you disagreed with. that washington was the most rtant important and the most influential african-american leader until the election of president barack obama. of t
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he isn't a black leader, he is the leader of the free world, try. and of course, of our country. when you look at african american leadership, into the ury, 20thev and 21st century i shingt maintain that booker t. make washington have no peers, i makecan in f my case, you can agree or with. disagree with.ourse we start with washington's birth. this is the original structure , in home, in which booker t. washington was born. was you remember that from slavery, he talks about his humble beginnings. he is establishing his street f cred, you might say, as a black leader because, in the 19th your century, in order to establish you your credentials you had to haveslav
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been a what? a slave. in the beginning of up from slavery, he establishes his street cred. we know he wasn't a slave for 12 long. slavery end ded it ended when he when was 12 years old. ye we know that it full import of n slavery, did not rest upon slave children, until they reached puberty. unt washington was a slave, he tells us some things about slavery, he tells us that he said his owner
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wasn't a bad owner. that seems to be problematic thinking of somebody owning you, a slave master, that isn't a bad person.self is the idea of owning a slave is terrible. this is the is cottage, the house, in in which booker t. washington was born. t then we know that washington went on to distinguish himself. washing skipping over stuff because of hi time here. in his autobiography of slaveryens washington tells of his route to tuskegee institute. there were decisions he had to make to contribute to going to ere so the meinstitute. what are the thing that is happened to him. ? t
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>> he had to work to pay money he he didn't have enough money he learned the dignity at hampton niversit university. >> heterm learned the dignity of he labor, in order to achieve. he couldpay pay his way into tuske tuskekee. >> for the entrance event, therefor is an eent that happened before his entrance exam. t >> i don't know the name of the woman, she helped him, servant making sure that was his exam. he valus that, she taught him
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many lessons, he uses throughout his life. washi credits her for much of his there success. >> there is a value here of hard work work.er there is a value of morality.e he valus being able to pay your own way so to speak. washington's belief that problems of people of african dissent, they came out of slavery as a dependent group. we discussed this. he is trying to find a way, he is articulating a way to move african americans from dependency to independence.some washington said, there are need things you need in order to move from dependency to
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independence. resources you have to have. the >> one of the things he focuses on aside from the material aspects going through freedom iseedom, i discipline. that is why he is stressing labor so much. in "up from slavery." >> discipline. what else? >> once the discipline had been found, people could work toward education, jobs, and those thing that is propel you to inside. >> yes, another hand up. what things did they need?eed. >> the skills necessary to be be abl able to impact their community in positive ways. w
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as far as washington was concerned, the importance of disc discipline, and a work elthic.e thes values et cetera. if you give the resources to someone who doesn't have the value, you are wasting the d so w resources, they won't know what to do with them. s washington is making the argument, those of african de dissent have to develop the o disciplinerd necessary to carry so them forward. washington uses his own left as an example of the kind of t to
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discipline of people of african dissent need, hampton institute where he slept under the board walk to pay his way. o work, didn't have money on his n h journey. once getting to hampton, cleans room for the person who is o's th there, remembers the lessons taught by mrs. ruffener how to w to cle clean. he said that was my entrance examination. of -- examine egg. examination. mee >> then hets meets a man, a colonel, at hampton institute. remember him, armstrong. what did armstrong teach him?>> taugh
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>> dignity of labor. >> was is it important to see that i labor in a dignified way? why is that important?l >>. >> up to that point, in slavery, labor was seep as dehumannizing. theyti learned over time that labor was something to be ashamed som of booker t. washington, to uplift the race, had to show there is disnilty in labor, and working to achieving something for yourself. >> labor, transformed from toil we might say, in a sense in which you are working, but not reaping the outcome, the rewards and benefits, and you have no vested interest in that labor, someone else is getting the reward.
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as a slave, you are not reaping the benefits, making someone else wealthy."colon colonel armstrong tault me the gnity dignity of labor. he tries to emphasize labor as something that is dignified, because washingtonbe is attempting to establish an economic base for people of african dissent. he is accused of being an accommodation icht.ead he said black people instead ofy're going northward and leaving the south, leaving the land, r heritage, the possibilities for independence, and going in search search of education, right, political rightson less social
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pressure, get away from the klu klux klan, and in search of ce in jobs. washington said, instead of f going to the north, in order to fi find these things, stay in the south. the background tokg this is, in south the south african americans ownable considerable pieces of land f coming out of slavery.re first of all, there was a ground of african americans who were ree, always free, had never been slaves, many of them were land overs. coming -- owners. >> many slaves coming out of slavery, are free. many masters, who had considerable sums of land, gave land to their former slaves. so, african americans had land. the the third group many african who afte
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americans, after coming out of slavery, were able to purchase land later on. you have african americans who have have land in the south. land historically, says if we can make this work for us establish an economic base, the political and the social arenas of life will be easier to achieve. social rights will f once we get an economic base. warve wash is looking at the examine that immigranted are ormed. already had performed. already established.ready
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come n use it within a generation or so that staeped h thei their own economics foundation.own ec basis, communities, et cetera. washington is looking at an do th immigrants, saying black people can do that too. that sell a little bit short say sided, we say, he is looking at immigrants, saying black people the can do the same thing. why these people came in here ast speak immigrants, didn't speak the w language, didn't know anything about american society within one generation they started selves pulling themselves up out of their lower class status, why frican- can't african americans do it we have been here longer. african americans have an advantage over the immigrants they speak english. they are americans.
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often immigrantsdi could claim and oftenat they did, that they were infact white. they didn't have the same physical distinctions that people of african dissent have once he became the head master many said he did take over oncecture there. this is the picture of the site
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of tuskegee, there were two th buildings on those two buildings had been restores and built on to, but trying to maintain the original now in his autobiography, up from savory alab he tells us in alabama when he went there started to build e tusk egee how many people there were, how washington fls us that co community surrounding tuskegee,
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he is looking to pull students, and support for the institution is in what condition? how would you describe it? they >> well i guess the term would ignora being ignorant. some black families they had enough montow buy a clock, se nobody could read the clock. enough money to buy a piano, nobody could play it they could value t but didn't know how to use it. >> these things are signifiers ow to us that you have made it you have a piano, you have a clock, you have k haveni knives and forks, don't know how to use them u.d
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washington says, somehow, i have have to get this community, this peo community of people emblematic of the state a large group of african americans were stuck in. at that time. he how do i get these people from here to here?hat they such that they can become more and independent?o so we have the original building building erected. porter haul, the significance is booker t. washington is booker attempting to build an institution. i peo he believes that if people of must
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african he emphasized industrialway of education. another way ofin putting it later on, in the 1920s, we will call it practical education. that is the education that one e needed in order to make the land profitable. what washington's argument, what good was it for people of african le dissent to be able to quote shakespeare or edgar allen poe,
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if they couldn't make the land productive. 50 acres of land, you have less use for edgar allen poe. your priority should be gaining ase, the knowledge base to make that t land productive to establish economic independence. here, we hav he women who are learning how to till the fields. plant. a to real a harvest from the fields. we know that washington gave students ownership part ownership in the development of teskegee institute.ells us he tells us in "up from
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slavery." one of the l ways he developed a leadership model and on-the-job training for students is that they participated in the building of their own institution. in i thought that was very here at interesting, don't you? we don't do that here at mercer. help us erect the football stad stadium. probably good that we didn't, itpart wouldn't lookad good as the one we have here. people of african dissent need to participate in their own up lifting. his critique here goes back to
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the failures of reconstruction. washington believes that primary problem with reconstruction was not that other than not b be funded o that was also that it created a system of dependency. for people of african dissent.en and washington's argument tis, that if people are african dissent are going to prospect come mor and become more mobile, they th mustey do so through economic independence. the wainy you get there washington argues are the valume valume -- values here, stitut students, know the foundation for a believe, at tuskegee institute, physically building
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in. they bhk known for brick masonry.organi they develop an org a business its itself, for brick masonry. training students to be brick ma masons, and training them to run. those businesses. he tells us various business business in america can't wait student for tuskegee students to graduate before they already ing have jobs. they areun aring stuff. you have this economic model because of washington's prolific use of these kinds of resources, and turning out the students, as well as politically, and his accommodationist discourse as washington became known as the creator of what folks called the tusk
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tuskegee machine. tusk washington, was doing this. so here is a picture of washington at tuskegee institute speaking, he was a prolific speaker. a one thing many don't realize about him, he was a licensed baptist preacher he had gone toshington seminary for 18 months he said he believed he had been called to preach. when he started meeting other black ministers he lost n prea interest in preaching because he didn't respect them.ey he said they were a group of folks who were just taking age of advantage of the african american population. uneducated, did want have the interest of the people, of the mass says at heart they were simply in it for themselves.
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washington gets out of the ministry, when washington spoke, apparently, it was an eent. ap if you listened to any recordings of booker t. washington speaking, it is riveting.it the manner in which he spoke.s of p you can see thousands of people would come out to hear booker t. washington speak. he is speaking again here, reminds me of myself. now, not only with tuskegee institute did booker t. washington make a significant impact. we talked about washington and impac hist, impact as well with other what what we call now, hbcu's. because washington's influence was
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he was able to open up for opportunities for other hbcu's ot o to become landnl grant colleges, to get the s and because of booker t. ta washington, many hbcus became proficient and also very viable. although by 1900, tuskegee institute boasted an endowment of $1.5 million. that was a lot of money back then. that is a lot of money now, as far as i'm concerned. is that was a lot of money back then to have as an endowment, especially a black university. also in 1900, booker t. washington starts the national negro business league. this is a picture of the pic executive committee of the ttee of national negro business league. this league, this business league, was started, washington in
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the started this for the purpose of moving again the african-american community from endence, dependency to independence, blishm through the establishment of black businesses that would be viable. it is important to understand that washington was working ngton wa during an era where there is segregation. segregation meant that whatever people of african descent were f africa going to do or have access to was going to happen within the black arena, the sphere of influence where black people live.phere right here in macon, georgia, there were areas that people of african descent lived. and if someone was upwardly mobile, a professional, a doctor, a lawyer, a dentist, or , a a teacher or whatever, they an are simply lived in an area within the african-american community. they couldn't go over to the side of town where the white white people lived. so, stores, businesses, the
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economy within the black community had to be thriving.ng. and it was, in fact, thriving. one of the reasons why the ns why economy was thriving in the i african-american community was n because of the national negro business league that booker t. ne washington established. one thing that they would do would be to not only promote the development of black businesses, but also help black businesses es along. if you wanted to start, say, a grocery store or a clothing store or any kind of business, g equi farming equipment business, et cetera, one could get aid and help from the national negro th business league. so, booker t. washington put that together. as well his efforts after the publication of "up from slavery"m
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accl in 1901 -- it won him acclaim, ai nationally and internationally such that booker t. washington became not only the most significant, the most powerful and well-known african-american n leader in america, but also he erica, b became internationally famous. and internationally known. this was during an era where there was no twitter. an there was not cable. there was no facebook, no cell phones, none of that. the word about someone's celebr success, and celebrity status traveled primarily through the ord-of newspapers and also word-of-mouth and also books and other print materials. and booker t. washington, in fact, was invited to dinner at the white house in 1901.
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president teddy roosevelt. this is very significant becauses ver washington was the first african-american who had ever been invited to dinner at the white house. and he was criticized for that by some. call many of whom were what you might call haters. why him, you know, and not me? that kind of thing. but also, president roosevelt recognized washington for his efforts and had literally almost appointed washington as a counselor, as a primary adviser for the affairs of people of african descent. and so booker t. washington t. served as really the first blackck presidential adviser on behalf of people of african descent, as well as american indians. so, washington is very, very important in this respect.
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also, president roosevelt, roosevelt's wife, were frequent visitors to tuskegee institute. not only the president -- president roosevelt, but many dignitaries. one of the reasons why and the and the primary reason why washington was able to amass such a large endowment for tuskegee institute is because his funding primarily came from liberal, white people who were very, very rich. wh the rockefellers, in fact. the carnegies, what is now the now rockefeller foundation and carnegie foundation but during tion that era they were leaving and breathing people who founded these companies, were in fact co contributors and supporters of tuskegee institute. and so, we have here a picture
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of theodore roosevelt, president theodore roosevelt with booker t. washington, at tuskegee, you know, institute. this is a controversial picture t. was of booker t. washington. this is a controversial statue. this statue is at tuskegee ontrov institute.statue if you drive to tuskegee, even today, you will see this statue there. the statue is of booker t. washington, and the man crouching down is a slave. there he is, a blanket symbolic of like a veil, and booker t. washington supposedly is lifting the veil off of the slave's face such that his eyes -- such that to he can see and progress to something better. those who are detractors of booker t. washington raise the question, was washington lifting the veil over the slave's eyes the ve or was he pulling it down farther?s
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because of his accommodationist beliefs.odatio because washington believed that that the best thing for people of african descent to do was not to pursue political and social tical equality at that particular time but instead pursue economic and empowerment. and that political and social equality equality would come some time later. although, he did come later and and say that he still believed, however, that black people ought to have the right to vote.and and that afforded that right, that they ought to go vote and exercise their voices. but that ought not be the er one primary objective, that ought riority not be the number one priority af of people of african descent. so this monument raises a critical question. there are people who have problems with booker t. washington. i think that is the source of source o
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the problem in some ways. was washington in fact was a tremendous leader but was he leading the way, opening the path to greater opportunity for people of african descent? or was he trying somehow to afri retard progress for ings? african-americans in lieu of other things? so, as i come to conclude my part in this, and you will have your time to argue with me, we have booker t. washington 's positive legacy. tuskegee institute started in 1881. the network of hbcus during his lifetime from 1900 when he was really in prominence to 1915 when he dies. the legacy, of course, continues after that. the national negro business league started in 1900. that was a tremendous thing for
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people of african descent economically. and then washington also supported and even helped found a number of african-american newspapers. this is extremely important because african-american newspapers were the primary means through which people of african descent not only received information, but also people would place ads and businesses would flourish urish because of african american newspapers. cy. contribute to literacy. so african-american newspapers were extremely important. but then there are those detractors of booker t. gton's. washington's. in terms of his negative legacy many might argue. of course at the top of the list is the atlanta exposition
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address that many argue is the atlanta compromise. it was delivered of course in a 1895 at the atlanta industrial exposition. t and you've read that speech. you and so you know that booker t. we washington, we said, might even play into this racist structure, paradigm for people of african he sai descent or labor, when he said let us work to rebuild the south. because he's here making a making critique of those who are arguing that part of the reason,big a big reason why reconstruction failed was because people of african descent did not participate fully the way that they should have. washington does not even addresswash that argument. he simply says, let us work.ply and we'll help rebuild the south. of course when he says that, he plays into perhaps this whole notion of blacks as workers and perhaps that's all they really are.
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physical, racial bodies. so the atlanta exposition address is at the top of the dress list.is second, we know that booker t. washington supported plessy ported versus ferguson, the u.s. vers supreme court case that established, in fact, separate but equal in american society. and that strengthened segregation. it was passed one year after the the atlanta exposition address and on many blamed the passage of plessy versus ferguson on booker t. washington.wash he was summoned, in fact, and asked to testify before congress about plessy versus ferguson, and he gave his blessing, you might say, to a kind of separate but equal arena, separate but equal policies by the federal government. this involved, of course, d, of co education, but then spilled overfe f into other areas of life for
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people of african descent. now washington believed, and we eved tha come to his defense, washington believed that whites who were racist, who were, in fact, trying their best not only to limit black participation, but ack to get rid of black people, ku klux klan remember, was at its cln height. was washington believed that these h people would never accept people the of african descent on equal e footing as members of their footing particular group and their particular society. so integration was not even an option as far as washington was concerned. what washington believed is that the root to independence and self-determination for african-americans was undergirded by them building up mmunit their own communities. so he had no problems with separate but equal. the problem is, of course, that plessy versus ferguson turned out to be separate but unequal,
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because of funding for various us things, education, public works, th and other sorts of things were black a not equal in terms of black and white society. if you lived in the black part of town versus the white part ofrsus the town, you did not get the same did no money spent per student. for example, right here in georgia, anywhere from three to five times the amount of money s spent on a black child was spent on a white child during the era, as a result of plessy versus ferguson.well. so washington gets part of the blame for that.ntiall and he is accused of being a racial accommodationist, as the la well. he is essentially saying here incen the latter part of the 19th and is early 20th century, that it is okay for american society to not only be segregated in all be
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facets of life, but it is also okay for people of african wi descent not to be challenge he that. but instead, to live within the re of sphere of segregation. and then finally, we have washington's distinction being to summoned and asked to appear at the white house for dinner, you know, with the president in october of 1901. and then being the adviser, of course to presidents william ho howard taft and theodore roosevelt.d to this was very significant fe because this, in fact, led to the establishment of a federal council for negro affairs.ted later on a colleague inherited washington's legacy, one of them through hbcus. in fact became director of. and so, washington's legacy is great.till and i still believe that he is the man.uments
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that many of you argue he's not. now, to your argument. that >> i acknowledge that booker t. washington made extraordinary he bla contributions to the black ck community. bu and he's the man.ter he's cool and all. but martin luther king jr. was more influential in terms of overall history as a race leader. because booker t. washington said we're just going to kind of sit calmly and accept what this ow. is for now.king wor martin luther king worked for equality and for change. not just for black people. stand he worked for better standards iving of living for everyone in america, and booker t. washington seems very intent on pursuing a personal agenda and elevating his status in politics. being the first at the white house.martin martin luther king accomplished everything he did without an ev official office. and he's better. >> all right. he's just better, right? >> yep.
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>> he is also better because you are saying booker t. washington was the first and only to be make appointed to an office, but that does not make him the man because overall because if you asked someone in this country whether count they're 6, 16 or 60, who the preeminent symbol of racial equality is, martin luther king is the answer that comes up, and l ans that legacy holds more weight wer than any presidential thore appointment.sidentia >> okay. all right. who agrees with that? do you agree? do you agree? all right. what do you have to say? [ inaudible ] and >> let you think for a minute and come back, right, with your argument. yes, uh-huh? [ inaudible ] >> booker t. washington really had like a choice, like, you know how you say he is like a racial accommodationist. >> mm-hmm.mm- >> but you said that back in ime that time era, like, the height k
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of the kkk and he is in the deep the south. i mea so i mean would it have been smart for him to go against, ny like, i mean, did he have any other choice but to be a racial accommodationist at that time? would it have been -- i mean he i wouldn't have gotten anything accomplished. he would have probably been ed. killed before he had time like to really do anything. >> well, he would have most certainly not lived as long a life as he did.ears he died when he was 59 years old. in 1915 was actually a pretty long time in terms of life expectancy. but had he said, well, enough of segregation. we are going to march towards freedom and that sort of thing d that he would not have lived very long. understand, he was in alabama, which is one of the most racist, oppressive states in the south.
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not only is he in alabama, but he is in rural alabama. even today, tuskegee university is a magnificent institution, but it is not in a real, what we, urba call, urban center. and during the era in which booker t. washington came into power as the head of tuskegee institute in 1881, tuskegee was really a very small rural area. remot very remote. e.like i he tells us what tuskegee was like in "up from slavery." i have often thought, what was was life like really for booker t. washington? d of thi what kind of things did he see go on in alabama? i imagine if he didn't see it, he knew that black people were being lynched.that that houses and churches and hnd stuff probably being burned.rned. there was a lot of violence against people of african agai descent.ns
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so part of his racial accommodationist discourse, i'm sure, had something to do with not only his own self-preservation, but also the th sense of, if people of african descent are going to come g, through this thing, you know, segregation and all that and and all make the impact, and become moret independent people, they're not going to be able to do it with a gun in your hand.to be a just not going to work. see.ar now that is part of the same argument that martin luther king made in terms of the nonviolent demonstrations in the south, you see. ly did k not only did king feel it was morally wrong to sink to the level of your oppressor. because they are killing you, you do not have to kill them back -- you know, shoot back at th them.you need you need to rise to a higher moral stand.to but
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but also king said another reason why i am against violencei is we can't win. you just look at it practically, we can't win. we can't win a war. in the early 1920s, in fact, tulsa, oklahoma, an area that, in fact, the national negro busine business league had helped establish as the black wall street, a lot of black banks, black and you know all that sort of thing, economic interest in ing, eco tulsa, oklahoma, it was known across the country as black wall ac street. there was a race riot because a young black man had been accused of wanting to rape a white woman in an elevator in a hotel. a race riot broke out and the u.s. military, air force bombed that part of tulsa, oklahoma, from the air. so i mean there is reason to feel -- this was after booker t.
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washington died. but martin luther king, he was aware of that happening in ington i tulsa, oklahoma. happeni booker t. washington is aware of the atrocities happening in the bl black community at the hands of so, i th white racists. so, i think both of them are saying violence and confrontation is not the answer.at's not that is not the answer. ing not violent confrontation.anothe that's not the answer. of course, king takes it to another level, you know, as well. because king sees nonviolence as ultimat a moral force that ultimately exposes the weakness and the inhumanity in those who perpetrate violence. so, if you are intent on not using violence and you face folks who do, and they continue
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to use violence, you don't and oks ba you maintain your dignity, who d? looks bad? this was king's point, you see. in one sense, maybe he did not in have, maybe booker t. washington did not have much of a choice inr t. the same way that martin luther uch king felt that he didn't have much of a choice. and the civil rights movement much didn't. other h on the other hand, the sense of racial accommodationist, that is what is really problematic. w.e.b. dubois hated that about afri booker t. washington.tand it. so did william trotter and some other african-american leaders. t. couldn't stand it. trotter hated booker t. much washington so much until he would follow washington around, wherever washington was going to wher speak, trotter would find where and that was going to be and make sit arrangements so he could sit right in the front. and everything went fine. the singing and other kinds of things, until they introduced booker t. washington, and the minute they introduced
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washington, he got up and got ready to speak, trotter got up and start shouting him down. i mean he had -- washington had great opposition from significant people of african descent. although he and w.b. dubois never had a public argument. this is a misnomer, this is a s fallacy.have all you have all this stuff going on. people writing stuff about all th dubois and washington at each other's throats, et cetera and all that. dubois only made two public statements about booker t. washington. one was a chapter in "the souls of black folk," that you will be reading in the next few weeks. a very balanced critique of mr. washington. and the second one was after washington died, w.e.b. dubois e a wrote a eulogy for booker t. washington and published it in publ major newspaper. those are the only two public hat
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dubo statements that dubois ever made about booker t. washington. and washington only mentioned du dubois a couple of times. once in "up from slavery" where he is in boston and he says there's a young man with an interesting analysis and paper that he read. named dr. w.e. dubois. and he goes on. he didn't say anything about it. you know, they were two different generations, you know,cetera et cetera. but dubois is criticizing washington, but washington is attempting to build institutions. this is really washington's legacy.this this is what distinguishes him s what from any other black leader, including martin luther king. martin luther king jr. dr. king, was a tremendous nk leader, no question about it. sa you know, we don't think of the to world the same way prior to
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martin luther king that we thinkas of the world now.the his dr. king was the first person ld ever in the history of the worlde. to say war is wrong, for example. even no one had ever said that umors before. even jesus said we will have wars and rumors of wars. dr. king said, war is evil. it destroys communities. it destroys people. vilizati it destroys civilization. it destroys the land. it d it is a corruption of natural law. he said war is wrong. and we just don't think about r the war the same way now that folks now thought about it before dr. king made that kind of analysis.t kind he changed the perspective aboutspective that.ng. and the power of nonviolence. we think of that differently after dr. king. gandhi in india had established the paradigm for nonviolence butlence it was dr. king that brought it
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to international, you know, awareness through the civil through rights movement. you know, people lived during the times, they live during their ages. and we can't take them out of those ages and put them in se and somewhere else and say okay, youdon' don't like booker t. washington because of the racial accommodationist, that wasn't commodat right or something like that. may not have been right. but we have to look at it within it the context of what he was of dealing with.aling so i think your question is appropr very, very appropriate. mayb maybe he did not have the kind of options that we think he ought to have had to talk about racial accommodationist. i do think, however, that washington honestly did believe that it was better for people of african descent to accept and e work within the arena of segregation than to spend their effort challenging it.ington i have read enough of washington's writings, know enough about his life, and the fe
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things that he believed, that i honestly believe that. that washington thought that it at washi was better for people of africaner descent to simply build up their own communities. if they build up their own communities, establish an economic base, the walls of segregation eventually might come down. and if they don't come down, who cares? because we have our own. that's how washington felt. that's really how he felt. if is that, who cares if folks like you or don't like you if they y don't sign your check.r this was in washington's mind. you know. who cares if they don't let us on par? into their universities, and our universities are all on par? you know, who cares if we can't side of live on that side of town and we have nice houses on this side of town? well washington's argument is, is don't worry about all that out that's going on on that side of town.town. build up our side of town. yes. [ inaudible ]e
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-- from slavery where washington was talking about how originallyt in f he felt when an individual made av a statement in favor of segregation or racism of any type, it would anger him, but he reached a point in his life that where he ignored it because he realized that eventually train racial equality would be a reality and those individuals were essentially standing on thes my que train tracks when the train was coming down the line. i guess my question is, do you think washington foresaw the increase in the number of il pro-african-american civil rights organizations from world war i to world war ii and on into the movement, through his strategy of economic uplift? >> i don't know if he foresaw it.now i know he laid the groundwork saw for it. i don't want to make a prophet out of booker t. washington or
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anything in terms of his foreseeing anything. but i do know that he laid the groundwork for the number of organizations that developed, you know, later on, like the the congress of racial equality, qualit urban league, and all of that ll have direct relations to booker have dir t. washington's legacy. and the national negro business and the league. especially the urban league. in fact, the linkage is clear. you know, even core, conservation of equality and theconser national heritage league became va some heritage to booker t. washington. so, in that respect, yes, washington did lay the tions, groundwork that later on other organizations, civil rights organizations claimed his legacy. also, marcus garvey, who was the leader of the back to africa movement, claimed direct lineage
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from booker t. washington. social lineage. he was not related to him by blood, but in terms of the ker t. intellectual social activism tradition, he saw himself as ught h carrying the legacy of booker t.e washington. he admired him. he thought he was the greatest m man alive. he carried with him everywhere he went a copy of "up from slavery." he came to america from jamaica e to to work with booker t. by the washington, but by the time he got here, washington was dead. so he said, okay, washington is dead. who now do i talk to about, you know, this race thing? and folks said the man now is w.b. dubois.but he but he went, and tried -- met tried with dubois, and was turned off by dubois. if you know much about dubois, you can understand how a person dub could be turned off dubois.now muc he was a brilliant man but not that gre all that great socially, you know. pretty uppity fellow.
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marcus garvey said, now this guy can't be a race leader because he don't look right. he's too light skinned, got nned hazel eyes, so-called good hair and all that. in jamaica, those people were problems.starte so garvey started the universal negro improvement association, unia.booker t and claimed direct lineage to er booker t. washington, and later on the nation of islam. in fact that's inherent of the garvey movement. of saw themselves, of course, as well having a relationship with booker t. washington. you know, in terms of social, you know, and intellectual traditio tradition. and elijah mohammed, who was the founder of the nation of islam, often would quote booker t. washington. you have this strain of thought in the african-american community that comes straight comes out of booker t. washington that
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we refer to as black nationalism. the problem, of course, for nationalist thought is rder to ultimately you have to say, okay you h how are your nation, where is av your land?shingt because in order to have a nation you have to have land somewhere. washington felt that he could solve this problem because he actually went to congress and asked that there be some states set aside.t asid got it cleared with the president and congress that the there could be some states set aside for black americans to s migrate to and establish their and own communities, their own their states, and that sort of thing. so in washington's mind, we're going to have true black nationalism. none of this segregation, you go over on that side of town. side we're going to have our own oing states. and part of the problem is that pro the states that booker t. washington was talking about were undesirable for people of le of african descent. places like montana, and you know, upper great plains.l of
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too cold, too barren, and all of that. and then second, nd african-american leaders and others were not desirous of separating out and going to be states where there would only be blac black people of african descent,ajorit or the great majority of african descent, because they felt that would make it easy to get rid ofeasy t black folks. genocide would be easy. they had already bombed tulsa, oklahoma. how easy would it be if 90% of black folk lived in the upper r great plains?st get o just get on a plane with some rid o bombs, go there and get rid of black folks.f ack folk black folks didn't go. what did happen as a result of booker t. washington that i did w;tiz not put on the powerpoint, there was a settlement of all-black a towns that was an offshoot of
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this nationalist urge. in fact in 1904 booker t. washington gave the commencement address at the university of commen nebraska-lincoln. in which he advocated the ack town settlement of all-black towns. by this time he had given up on the notion of all-black states. but he was advocating the and settlement of all-black towns.as and as a result of washington's trek through the upper south, midwest, and great plains, thereere were all-black towns that were t. was developed.hi and partly as a result of booker t. washington's legacy. ;tqg town for example, in nebraska, there were like five all-black towns. there were all-black towns in kansas, oklahoma, oklahoma still has predominantly all-black nt. towns that came out of that settlement. boldy, oklahoma, which is the which site of the national black rodeo every year. ev montana had two all-black towns. i've taught students from both mont
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of those towns over the course an of my career. texas had some all-black towns, et cetera. and so washington's legacy was, et let's have our own. let's have our own thing. ha yes? >> i have a question about the negro business league, what happened to it?o because, on saturday, i went to d a local community here called pleasant hill, and a lady there was giving a history lesson esson about how in the past, they had all these black leaders, doctors, lawyers, within that community.lawyers but she said nowadays, i mean if you look around at the those community, you'll see that those houses that were nice back in the early 1900s, they're not in mint condition anymore. they're just poor. you said the national negro funded t business league funded those black communities and black egration
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towns headed by booker t. washington, so what happened to it? >> integration. wh when integration came, many blacks found it more attractive to live, work, spend money in predominantly white communities s instead of their own. d of t i was a student coming out of junior high school into high school when integration supposedly happened. in the community in which i lived, it did not happen. ich i but i remember the discourse. i remember the discussions about that. and the moves in american society.zpwith af since then the whole question of integration and what has happened with african-american communities. black one thing that has happened has wh been the ghettoizing of black communities, because those who were more economically and
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politically upwardly mobile, left black communities., whic so black communities were robbed of resources, its primary source, which was people. so, doctors, lawyers, professors, you know, teachers, et cetera, left the historic black communities and moved into more integrated areas. a lot of times, for very good reasons. they could get better housing, for example. nicer neighborhoods. nicer stores. better schools, you know, all that sort of thing. but the fallacy in integration was that many people of african descent did not support integration simply to live amongst whites. they saw that as a means to an end, which was equality. the philosophy behind integration was if we move over there with the white people, go to their schools and all of to their
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that, we will be able to share in those resources. practi for example, in a practical way,ca if you are sitting in a classroom, black student in a white classroom, predominantly domina white classes, the teacher gets ntteacher up to teach, that teacher cannoto teach those white kids without teaching the black. are if books are handed out, that nded black kid is going to get a new k kid textbook, too. whatever resources that are er res going to be handed out and available, the black people will have access to those resources in integration. you see? that was the theory behind integration. it didn't quite work that way, you know, necessarily.ay. but that was the theory behind integration. it was a means to an end instead of an end in itself. don't have to sit at a lunch counter next to somebody white just because you want to sit youbody w there next to somebody white. all right?
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but the fact is that that particular restaurant in the white neighborhoods, they have neighb better cuts of meat. the people are being paid a little bit more. the structure is better, the l neighborhood, et cetera, and all that. so if we integrate there, we have access to those resources. it is all about resources. t so m not so much about black people who did not feel comfortable around other black people. it is about accessing resources. but in that move to somehow improve the conditions of people of african descent through integration, resources over here, lack of resources over tegratio here. let's go where the resources are. w
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doing that the intelligencia, the most economically viable of t our community, the base of the black community pulled out and went across town. and that left the black community increasingly ghettoized. and that's why you see the situation as it is yesterday over generations that has occurred. i have seen it in my own life. >> the fact they integrated with the whites, why did that affect the national negro business league from still keeping its promise and doing what it was bus supposed to do within the black communities? what happened to that organization? >> that organization became part of the national urban league. anizatio that is an organization that has spurred black businesses and that sort of thing. that organization did not end its work in african-american communities. part of the problem is black busi businesses tend not to have
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resources to start up. most businesses in america fail within the first three years. a anytime you're trying to start a business in america, and i know because i had a little business at one time, a community mental went health center when i was in ss illinois, and i went through theistrat small business administration, training, to try to do that. really a ministry, right. mo but still you need money. so i went through the training. one thing they told us, i was in a room with 20 other people with 20 trying to start up stuff. if you are going to start a business, you need to have threeive year to five years of cash money in terms of operating money. you need to have that set aside. and don't touch it. because, don't expect your business to even pay your salary, much less turn a profit,sa for the first three to five r the fi years. most black businesses can't do that.
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i mean, people start up on a shoestring. if they run into problems, within usually something like within u six to nine months, something months like that, a lot of businesses end up closing in the black the community because they cannot annot sustain that period where you don't get a check, you know. as that has a lot to do with it as well. yes. >> i think to some degree what t, the she was talking about, the comm breakdown of the black community, can be attributed the philosophy that booker t. washington had. >> i knew you were going to say that. >> i remember a passage where he said that the black communities should be seen as equal had to e see prove themselves as absolutely had dispensable or the rest of the s a community couldn't survive without them. you are perpetuating this idea i am not equal because i am human, i am only equal because i work q#rjt really, really hard for it, theni when integration happened, some
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affluent black people probably e felt like, well this is my time to shine, this is my time to is prove that i'm useful and so they moved out of those communities. and so maybe if he wasn't such a racial accommodationist earlier, those structures that were successful could have maintainedtsful c and could have stayed because they were already in the they mind-set that we're equal how we w are. w and he didn't teach that.. but martin luther king did. >> well, i mean, in saying that booker t. washington was the most influential, powerful black po american that has not been we elected to office, i don't mean to say that i agree with him. there is a lot about booker t. washington i don't like, i don't agree. however, washington was in a position after 1900 to say yea or nay to things people of african-american descent were yea
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trying to get started that were ay to t being supported by state and federal funds. i've spoken with people for i've example, older african-americans older and older whites, who were were trying to participate in this racial uplifting movement, who were starting schools, or businesses, or, you know, )"iqou know, anything such as that. many of them said that in order to get i to get it started, they knew they had to get washington on w they h board. so they wrote a letter to bookerwrote a t. washington or talked to someone who knew, had access to d booker t. washington. as long as he didn't speak against you, you were okay. if you had a job, if you got a job that was being funded by theate or federal government and you came out against washington or washington's program, you inst
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was would find yourself unemployed. so i don't agree necessarily with w with washington because he did demag become kind of a demagogue afterog awhile. no question about that. of course there were some were charges against martin luther ma king that way, too, that he king thought he was the lord. t you know, that kind of stuff. critique of him.that sor folks would call him the lord, you know, et cetera. any sometime a person achieves that sort of status, you know, they're going to have they're detractors, their haters. martin luther king was a tremendous national and international figure. no question about that.life i life is different for us because of dr. king's leadership. and what that movement was able to do. was the civil rights movement.l but life is also different what because of what booker t. washington was able to do. martin luther king even credited. washin booker t. washington with some of the successes of the early
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parts of the civil rights rly movement because some of the civil rights movement was also economic justice. was, i later on, in fact, when dr. kingd the was, in fact, assassinated, he was planning a march on washington, and the whole thing d.c. a was to march 250,000 people to washington, d.c. and the bring the united states government to a halt. lay down on runways so planes couldn't take off.. and that kind of stuff. just literally a huge act of civil disobedience. the demand was everyone in america be guaranteed a minimum livable wage. that was what the king movement,ultima the civil rights movement just ultimately ended at that point of saying we must have economic justice and there should be a before
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guaranteed salary. no matter whether you are flipping hamburgers or lecturingameric before c-span. there ought to be a guaranteed minimum salary for everybody in that, america. when you look at that, smacks of booker t. in there somewhere. doesn't it? a little booker t. in there somewhere, you know.argument people lived during the era, you know, and people build on the successes and the failures of those who have come, you know, before them.at's oka i still think i won this argument myself. you probably think you won, and that's okay. that's fine. i believe we have a tremendous dy historical figure here.na it's a dynamic period in american history, and for people of african descent, it really is so much so that we have in terms of the legacy of booker t. y things
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washington, we have many things in american society, many folks was who look at booker t. washington preside as a tremendous figure.ent bara even the president of the unitedte to states, president barack obama wash has paid tribute to booker t. washington. and also martin luther king. lead when i look at these two great leaders, i say there is something about each one of them that contributed significantly to black progress for people of african descent. there are things about both of them also that we could may h criticize. martin luther king may have stayed with the nonviolence thing a little bit too long, a g, lot of people say. you know.er on in fact, later on in his life, in he questioned whether or not nonviolence could work in an unethical society. because the premise of mise o nonviolence is that sooner or t later the folk who are pressing you are going to get embarrassed pre or something.zhnç f
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you know, feel like oh, my god, we're really making ourselves look bad.f the but what if the folks who are oppressing you don't have that kind of humanity? some folks just don't have olks jus shame. if you are trying to shame meone wh someone who does not have any are i shame, you are in trouble. n martin luther king ultimately and came to that point and questioned that. you read his books.u read and ultimately at one point, rtin l martin luther king questioned, ut said can nonviolence work? and this is after he went to chicago. the kind of structures in chicago were not the same as in h. the south. in the south, especially the deep south, to gather more than re two or three black people together at the same time you disrupted the whole fabric of that society. there were laws against that. any public assembly of black
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folk, more than one or two, or something like that, you got to and get rid of them. he went to chicago and marched right through skokie, you know, ie illinois.nois. didn't bother anybody.er because in chicago, people do that kind of stuff all the time. march. black folk walking down the street together and that kind of thing. y the just by the very presence of 500people m black people marching, it did not necessarily bother anyone in an urban city in the north. so there were things about dr. king and his perspective in the movement that fell short, no in th question about that. but e nonetheless, we experience a xperienc better life because of what he did. use we experience a better life because of what booker t. washington did. if i could talk to booker t. washington now, have a ould tal conversation with him, i think i would argue with him about a lotersation of stuff. ut a l no question about that. but i also salute the fact that he was the man.
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no question about it. he was the man. one last question or comment? one anyone?la yes. the >> i would say he was either the most powerful or the most p influential because they're in different.fl i will give you he was the most lu powerful because of his elected appointed office.nt but i feel like martin luther king was the most influential. >> it is hard to make a distinction between powerful andu're influential when you're t looking -- it depends on the basis in which you're looking, okay. what i am saying is martin ther kin luther king, no question about had a gr it, had a great amount of influence. passing the civil rights act, you know. desegregation of the south, you know.outh that sort of thing.of thing no question about it. the whole question of war, calling into question, you know,
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war, which led my generation to say no, we're not going to vietnam. you know.y no i refused to go. and i was ready to go to jail. turns out i didn't have to go toani jail because of the draft at that time. so dr. king was very, very influential, no question about it. but what i'm looking at in terms i'm of institution building, the terms legacy that you leave, dr. king's legacy is different legacy than booker t. washington's legacy. dr. king leaves us a legacy of a society that operates at ope differently. blacks and whites sitting in thesitting same classroom, coming to, you classr know -- going to eat together, you know, doing things together, dating each other, growing up, all that kind of stuff. that wouldn't have been possible without the civil rights uen movement.. no question about that. but when you look at the kind ofhington, legacy of booker t. washington, who believed that institutions piv
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are what transforms reality and s the opportunities for people, and booker t. washington is the only black leader, social eader, leader, that left institutions. no other one. not even martin luther king lefti4mtr(t&háhp &hc% institutions. he left an organization. the southern christian leadership conference can't get along with each other. you know, they fight. w.b. dubois and the naacp, they get can't get it together now. they sit around qmds+jtuáár'g wh and fighting and carrying on. but if you just look at booker t. washington, and what he did for hbcus, still well over 80% of black folks are educated, you know. still where seven or eight out of every 10 doctors and lawyers are still being educated at hbcus. you know that kind of black
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leadership and black intelligentsia coming out of hbcus and a lot of that had to telligen do with booker t. washington's support. i mean financially. all sending money their way so that l they could survive all that. so you have legacies in different ways. you have one institutional legacy.tr and another one a legacy in terms of transforming american society for resources and opportunities. we will continue with this argument throughout the semester i am sure, and ultimately i will win. thank you so much. you've been watching a special presentation of our our lectures in history series.tory we've got more every saturday atvery 8:00 p.m. and midnight eastern.. join students in the classroom to hear lectures on campuses the
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co across the country on topics ranging from the american 50 p revolution to the 9/11 terrorist attacks. atta lectures in history, every saturday at 8:00 p.m. and at 8:0 midnight eastern, here on american history tv./ uç we want to tell you about some of the other american history programs. a join us every sunday at 8:00 s ever p.m. and midnight eastern for a special look at the presidency. learn from leading historians about presidents and first ladies, their policies and nd legacies, and hear directly from our chief executives through xecutiv historic archival speeches. that's every sunday, at 8:00 at p.m. and midnight eastern, here ight on american history tv on c-span3. and we'd like to hear from you. follow us on twitter @cspanhistory. connect with us on facebook at facebook.com/cspanhistory.history. where you can leave comments, ts, too. and check out our upcoming coming programs at our website, c-span.org/history.
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new year's day on the c-span networks. here are some of our featured programs. 10:00 a.m. eastern, the . washington ideas forum. energy conservation with david cran crane.e.ness mag business magnate t. boone pickens. pickens. ca cake love owner warren brown.ventor d and inventor dean cayman.he at 4:00 p.m. eastern the brooklyn historical society holds a conversation on race. then at 8:00 p.m. eastern from th the explorer's club, apollo seven astronaut walt cunningham on the first manned space flight. new year's day on c-span2, just before noon eastern, author hector tobar on the 33 men that were buried in a chilean mine. and at 3:00 p.m. eastern richardrton s norton smith on the life of miller. nelson rockefeller. then at 8:00 p.m. eastern, former investigative correspondent for cbs news sharyl attkisson on her experiences reporting on the obama administration.an new year's day on american history tv on c-span3, at 10:00 en
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in th a.m. eastern, juanita abernathy on her experiences and the role of women in the civil rights movement.ollege at 4:00 p.m., brooklyn college professor benjamin carp on the link between alcohol and politics in pre-revolutionary new york city. and then at 8:00 p.m. cartoonist patrick oliphant draws ten tial car3 presidential caricatures as gh historian david mccullough s the pr discusses the presidents and their mo some of their most memorable s. qualities.'s day o new year's day on the c-span . networks.complete for our complete schedule go to c-span.org. next brandeis university professor jonathan sarna talks ersity about how industrialist henry sarn ford founded and supported a ndy newspaper which published anti-jewish articles. ford's international weekly the quot dearborn independent published jew, an article in 1920 describing, quote, the international jew, ld's end quote, as the world's we foremost problemre. the articles were later published as a series of books.our an this class is about an hour and 15 minutes.gy9<
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>> all right. good afternoon, everybody. the last time we looked broadly at the rise of hatred during i, and world war i, and we looked at immigration restriction, which was in some ways related to that, and a little bit about the ku klux klan and we spent a lot abo of time on the translation of own the forgery known as the protocol of the elders of zion, and then we mentioned some of the anti-immigrant rhetoric of connected with prohibition. to do what i want to do today is ly really focus on the person who really did more than anybody else to fan the flames of
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anti-semetism in the 1920s, and that was none other than the famous american industrialist henry ford. henry ford is a great hero to many americans. there were lots of people who wanted henry ford to run for president in 1924, but as we 3xs5ñ will see, jews, i think actuallyquite for quite understandable reasons, perceived henry ford to be an enemy. now, i trust many of you know atbet someth least something about henry ford, but let's give at least a little bit of background on b henry ford, who is an exceedingly interesting person. he was born in a very small community, springwells township in michigan. in
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today we would say he was good he at the s.t.e.m. subjects. he was good at mathematics and engineering, which in those days was mechanics, and very bad at was mechanics, and very bad at reading and writing. he spent some little time and writin actually becomes a good friend time of thomas edison who also was not a great lover of the jewish @bdñ people, and he then spends a lot he of time as a young person working to create an auto engine. in your generation, people work k in their garage to make apple computers, if any of you have one of the original apple o computers built in steve jobs' s built garage, it's worth an absolute fortune, but in henry ford's day, people who were gifted worked in their sheds to make ané)q% sh automobile that would be cheap and that would really allow for %h$8ñ
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what would become a transformation of the country. and henry ford succeeds in that. he, like lots of inventors, he lots has all sorts of false starts t but eventually, excuse me, he creates the model t which what's important about the model -- t the anybody know what's important about the model t? it wasn't the very first automobile, after all. what really was significant wh about ford and the model t?att >> it was the first mass produced automobile. m >> exactly. yeah, he's able -- it's just like steve jobs. apple was not the first computer by a long shot.spu what henry ford did is, he made the automobile accessible to everyone.
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the price drops, he sells model nfç ts eventually for $290, and 15 million of them were sold, much like when computers dropped below a certain price or i remember, you know, when only only very wealthy people had phones, cell phones. they were enormous things, you needed a whole suitcase to carryneeded it around and people had it to show off.d and p then cell phones got small and it was exciting to people. henry ford, in other words, put the world on wheels and that was absolutely transformative. he's very important when you study utilization in that he udy didn't invent mass production but he really demonstrates what mass production can accomplish. can
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he popularized it.d mass production, there were a mass p lot of other ideas, eight hours of of work, eight hours of leisure, eight hours of sleep, all of -- he didn't invent that, either, but it's all part of a philosophy that becomes associated with henry ford. he uses his wealth for various social causes but the amazing thing is, and this is really where i think we'll see his interest in jews, henry ford uses some of his money to restore the good old days. you might imagine that an tha industrialist and inventor and wouldn't be so interested in the good old days, but henry ford ays, absolutely was.
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so for example, he tries hard to revive square dancing. you know, we wouldn't associate henry ford with that, but he b thinks country fiddling and square dancing was much better danci for america than this l0cbña tha new-fangled music and what he considered lascivious dances that were overtaking america in the early 20th century. he doesn't believe in pasteurized milk. don't try that at home. but he thinks the old ways of getting milk were much better. and so on and so forth. he restores farmhouses. he loves mcguffie readers. anybody know what the mcguffie he reader is? anybody? none of you went to school in the 19th century.
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william mcguffie really producedly a series of graduated readers, of they were meant to introduce reading to young people and the ung goal, it was graduated so every grade had a different level of reading, and the reading was supposed to be at a high level r and there were some o be illustrations and so on. many, many people who studied inc - the 19th century, especially in more rural schools, used mcguffie's readers. and there are still places, i gather none of you come from ng] such places, that try and teach the mcguffie readers. there are some evangelical mcguff schools that believe that this really is the best way to teach reading and to teach kind of elevated literature. the truth of the matter is that
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some, maybez?1ü jrá in e i some point, some of the early mcguffie readers, there are different editions, contain rather anti-jewish material.mater there is a dispute as to whether henry ford himself studied those early readers and did that influence him. some of the bible readings selected were new testament readings that cast jews in a bad light. the he wanted the mcguffie readers, tt had material from the merchant ha of venice which cast jews in a nt bad light and so on. in any case, whether or not it y really was a central influence o>tx a on ford, it tells you something that about him, that he wanted to w bring back these great old-fashioned textbooks of the
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good old days. that to his mind was what america needed.@27ç henry ford in 1915 is going to promote peace.prom some people think that he was pro-german, but he certainly was a pacifist and one of the things he pays for is known as the and peace ship with a jewish woman named rosica schwimmer who is also involved in this peace ship which is supposed to sail around and promote peace during world war i. many people ridiculed the peace ship and ridiculed $?í!ind of pacifism that it was promoting. w some will argue later that ford,
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who quarrelled with schwimmer, was later going to move from oing schwimmer to generalize about all jews.e abou certainly ford was unhappy about the bad publicity that he publ received connected with the nected peace ship and all that went with it. and the reason that ford was worried about the bad publicity was actually p.r., public relations, was absolutely blic central to the success of henry s ford and he's one of the very early people to understand how important public relations was and some of his public relations activities are very famous.y
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so for example, in 1914, he ÷omeó announces and then does it and gets enormous praise that he's e th going to distribute profits to di workers and was going to offer people who worked at ford motor company the then unheard-of sum r5 of $5 a day. the public life of henry ford, meaning the public relations aspect of his life was quite significant. he wanted newspapers to report ificant. favorably on him.v+ñ he wanted really to be viewed in v a very positive way that was way very important to the company.very i there's a very good book by david lewis on the public life of henry ford where you can see re you how significant this is to ford
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and that may help to explain whyin ford eventually decides that he is going to have his own newspaper, and he purchases the t dearborn independent. where is dearborn? still there. >> about 35 minutes outside detroit. >> yeah. dearborn in michigan, nearby detroit, so it was local. there was a significant ford in installation in dearborn. ford buys the dearborn what's t independent. what's the great advantage of a owning your own newspaper?questi it's not a hard question.e >> you control what the paper says about you. >> exactly. if if you want to control your own message, it's helpful to own your own newspaper, and he has another great advantage.other gr yes, it's called the dearborn

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