Skip to main content

tv   Lawmakers Spar Over Immigration Policy at Enforcement Hearing  CSPAN  March 31, 2017 10:39am-12:53pm EDT

10:39 am
cspan.org. a hearing now on border security and immigration enforcement. a former immigration judge and immigration policy experts testify about sanctuary city policies and federal enforcement operations. attorney general jeff sessions recently announced the justice department will attempt to recover federal money that's been awarded to cities that don't comply with immigration enforcement. >> without objection the chair is authorized to declare recesses of the committee at any time. we welcome everyone to today's hearing on restoring enforcement of our nation's immigration laws. the chair recognizes himself for an opening statement. it's fitting today's hearing is called restoring enforcement of our nation's immigration laws. the past eight years witnessed the deliberate undermining of our immigration laws. the growth
10:40 am
of anti-immigration enforcement policies and the vilification of federal state and local law enforcement officer whose attempt to enforce our nation's immigration laws. our immigration laws are an expression of our nation's sovereignty. they're not suggestions. yet for the past eight years, they were largely ignored. and the example was set from the top. the obama administration abandoned the rule of law under the guise of prosecutorial. the death by dui of sarah root. terrorist attacks ranging from the world trade center to the massacre at san bernardino. the assault against a rockville teenager. the time is long overdue to insure our immigration laws are enforced and the rule of law is restored. the obama's policies of rubber stamping claims that
10:41 am
the border and its out right probition on i.c.e. officers from carrying out critical mission have left this nation increasingly at risk. the sky high credible asylum grant rates assures immigrants to make the dangerous journey to the united states. aliens overran our border and credible fear and asylum claims increased ten fold. simultaneously, i.c.e. removals from the interior drops from 238,000 in 2009 to only 65,000 in 2016. the trump administration inherited a shell of immigration enforcement that it must now rebuild. i am pleased we'll hear today from witnesses who can fully explain the benefits of federal state and local cooperation and the detrimental effects of obstruction. the sanctuary communities have decided to make a political
10:42 am
statement out of lawlessness. the decline detainer outcome report that i.c.e. will now regularly issue will prove itself a useful tool in continually identifying these jurisdictions in the criminals they let out on to our streets. the government must discourage not encourage sanctuary policies and practices. under dhs's november 14th, 2014, departmental guidance, i.c.e. was given stringent parameters regarding these aliens that was permitted to apprehend and seek to remove. additional guidance ending the successful programs further constricted the parameters. this was sold to the american people as prioritizing i.c.e.'s limited resources to go after only the worst of the worst. yet the number of criminal aliens removed from the interior fell from 87,000 in fiscal 2014 to approximately 63,500 the
10:43 am
following two fiscal years. under president obama, it was widely understood that asylum officers should get to yes on credible fear determinations and requests for asylum. by any means necessary. asylum laws were written to offer refuge to the truly persecuted and policies like this did nothing to advance those goals. instead, those obama administration policies worked to encourage many aliens to seek asylum, with fraudulent stories. the new administration is taking steps to correct this and already the flow of illegal aliens across the border has significantly slowed. this problem is endemic and i look forward to hearing today from our witnesses on the best practices to address asylum fraud. it's my pleasure to recognize the ranking member of the
10:44 am
subcommittee, ms. cochran from california for five minutes for our opening statement. >> thank you, mr. chairman. the title of today's hearing implies that up until recently our immigration laws simply went unenforced. nothing could be further from the truth. the past administration deported more immigrants than any other previous administration. the president as in obama, even earned the infamous nickname deporter in chief. but this massive increase in deportation never satisfied many republicans who repeatedly kept citing the supposed lack of enforcement as a reason not to pursue reform. these alternative facts were used time and again to avoid solving the real problem, our broken immigration system. today, republicans control all levels of the federal government. but instead of finally tackling the problems affecting our immigration system, they're focusing on attacking local
10:45 am
governments with community trust policies. among other things, president trump's executive orders threaten to attempt to shame and attempt to withhold federal funds from jurisdictions that resist in the administration's opinion the federal government's request to cooperation with immigration enforcement. the constitution specifically the tenth amendment, protects states' rights and it prohibits federal actions that commandeer state and local officials. when it comes to immigration, these principles somehow seem to be overlooked. recently i was at a meeting where the mayor of san jose said, you know, we don't send out the san jose police department to enforce the security and exchange laws, the federal tax laws, the maritime laws, or the immigration laws. that's the job of the federal government. there are well-known constitutional limits on the ability of the federal governments to withhold funds to
10:46 am
the states. state and local officials know their communities and know how to keep them safe better than the federal government. the constitution's long-standing principle is apparently either ignored or seen as an impediment by some people. in the recent executive order on interior enforcement, president trump abolished the prior administration's enforcement priorities to go after all 11 million undocumented immigrants in the united states just as candidate trump promised he would. while this agenda my satisfy the most extreme elements in our country it isn't smart. it does not make our country safer and it does not make our country stronger. and it has created a churl of fear. there are videos of parents taken from their children by armed i.c.e. officers. there are stories of mothers who lived in this country for decades being deported after
10:47 am
dutifully checking in to i.c.e. apartments and there are threats from the department of homeland security to separate mothers from children for deterrence purposes. the fear caused by these acts is paralyzing communities across our country. now, some may dismiss the heart break of many families across the country, but we shouldn't dismiss how it is making communities less safe. we've already seen, for example, reports of domestic violence and sexual assault drop dramatically among lateenoes in los angeles. we shouldn't dismiss the economic consequences these policies are sure to have. it's time to stop the posturing and starts thinking about ways to think our broken immigration system. i stand ready to work with my colleagues across the aisle to reform our immigration laws from top to bottom. with that, mr. chairman, i would yield back the balance -- if i
10:48 am
could, mr. chairman, i would also ask unanimous consent to enter into the record statements from the following individuals and organizations expressing concerns about president trump's immigration enforcement policies and that would be the national immigration justice center, the chief of police of marshalltown, iowa. the retired chief of police of garden city, kansas. the national task force and sexual and domestic violence, the massachusetts immigrant and refugee advocacy coalition, as well as a letter from 292 law professors and scholars saying that the president's executive order is unconstitutional. >> the gentleman from virginia and the chairman of the full committee, mr. goodblat, is isn't senatin the snaenate. i wish him well.
10:49 am
we'll have to ask the voters every two years to send us back, dealing with the senators. and i would now recognize the ranking member, mr. conyers of michigan for five minutes. >> mr. chairman, was the unanimous consent request -- >> without objection, the consent request will be granted. >> thank, mr. chairman. >> the gentlemen from michigan. >> thank you, mr. chairman and congratulations, again, on your ascension to the chairmanship of this important committee. members of the committee, i want you all to know that i welcome all of our witnesses and look forward to their testimony. and i just like to remind you, i don't frequently quote former
10:50 am
president reagan, but he once said our nation is a nation of immigrants. more than any other country, our strength comes from our own othr strength comes from our own immigrant heritage and our capacity to welcome those from other lands. that quote was uncontroversial among my republican friends and colleagues then and it should remain so now. affirmation of the moral and social work of immigrants is not a partisan position, it is simply america's. as we begin today's hearing, i urge my colleagues to use this forum to examine sensible,
10:51 am
effective measures rooted in fact and practice. for enforcing our laws and keeping our communities safe. one fact we must consider is that studies have repeatedly shown that immigrants in the united states are less likely than native-born americans to engage in crime. the vast majority of immigrants in the united states are peaceful, law-abiding individuals who support their families and communities. another fact is that the southern border is more secure than ever. apprehension rates at the southern border have plummeted since the 1980s and apprehensions of mexicans typically have reached their lowest point in nearly half a
10:52 am
century. this helps plain why most americans don't want the trump border wall which would cost upwards the staggering $20 billion a bill and $750 million annually to maintain it is estimated. now withstanding these facts, and others, the current administration continues to villa phi immigrants and attack the community's that decided not to constrict their law enforcement into a mass deportation force. in fact, yesterday attorney general sessions threatened to withhold federal funds from such jurisdictions. let me be clear, attorney general sessions should not
10:53 am
subsa died -- for that of law enforcement and local jurisdictions who know what it is best to keep their community safe. the attorney general purports to place a high priority on fighting crime, but threatens to withhold much needed justice department funding from the very agencies that are on the frontline and protecting all of us. over 600 counties and cities have made the decision to resist the administration's efforts to conscript their local officials into a mass deportation force because experience and data show that local enforcement of federal immigration law often makes communities less safe.
10:54 am
it breeds profiling, discrimination, and distrust. immigrant victims and witnesses stop reporting crimes to authorities and criminals grow emboldened. in fact, studies have shown that sanctuary cities are actually safer and more prosperous than they're nonsanctuary counterparts. finally, under the guise of enforcing the law, we've already witnessed donald trump and his administration follow through on divisive campaign rhetoric that threaten our core american values and will do nothing to make us safer. to cite a few examples, in less than 90 days, this administration has already
10:55 am
threatened an unconstitutional use of federal spending authority to strong arm local jurisdictions into enforcing federal immigration law, undermine -- two more points. undermine the fourth amendment by pressuring cities into detaining immigrants without probable cause. and finally, as this conducted indiscriminate raise on peaceful immigrant families in their homes, places of work, and even in their schools. such anti-immigrant measures not only raise serious constitutional concerns, but they're contrary to our proud history as a nation of immigrants. i thank the chairman, welcome, again, the witnesses for their testimony today, and i yield
10:56 am
back. >> thank you. without objection, other members' opening statements will be made part of the record. we have a very distinguished panel today. i will begin by swearing in our witnesses before introducing them. if you would all please rise. do you solemnly swear the testimony that you'll give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help you god? let the record show that all of the witnesses answered notice affirmative. i will begin by introducing the witnesses. sheriff thomas m. hodgeson was an elected official and the chief law enforcement officer in bristol county massachusetts. sheriff hodge son originally appointed in 1997 by governor william weld has subsequently been reelected to seven six-year terms. under his watch the sheriff's office has established a warrant apprehension unit, a drug task
10:57 am
force, gang unit, works regularly with federal partners including ice. his department participates in the 287 g program and he along with other sheriffs has called for the immigration reform with the emphasis on border security and i tier yore enforcement. he previously testified before the massachusetts great and general court regarding sanctuary policies. ms. jessica vaughan served as the director of policy studies with the center foreign policy immigration studies. in that role she studies numerous facets of immigration policy, including immigration law enforcement. prior to this role, she served adds a foreign service officer with the state department and has testified before this committee on numerous immigration related matters, including at a similar hearing in 2015. ms. vaughan has a masters degree from georgetown university and earned her batch lofr's degree
10:58 am
in international studies at washington college in maryland. mr. andrew arch thur is the former staff director for the government reform and oversight committee national security subcommittee. prior to serving as a staff director he was an immigration judge for the united states department of justice, executive office for immigration review of the new york/pennsylvania court. he is also a fellow colleague of house judicial committee, subcommittee on immigration where he served as a council for five years advising the chairman, me, on matters relating to the enforcement of immigration laws and immigration policy. he has received his b.a. from the university of virginia and his law degree from the george washington university school of law. ms. archi pyati serves as the chief of policy and program she spear heads national and local
10:59 am
policy program attic initiatives overseeing direct services to immigrant women and forging and mobilizing diverse bipartisan coalitions depressed for laws, regulations and policies to better protect them from violence. before joining tyreeya, pyati was the deputy director of the immigration project of the sanctuary for families in new york. she is a graduate of brown university and received her law degree from the university of michigan law school. without objection to each of the witness's written statements will be entered into the record in their entirety. i ask that each witness summarize his or her testimony in five minutes or less and to help to stay with that time limit, there are lights in front of you and you all know what they mean. so if sheriff hodge son, why
11:00 am
don't y -- hodge so reason why don't you lead off. press the button ton your mike. >> thank you. security guards and scanners greeted me this morning a walked into the office building. these measures are in place to protect the safety of everyone inside. mem most people are cleared pretty quickly and go about their business. it's the others who intend to do us harm, those who have no respect for our laws that we have to worry about. it's those who the capital police must deny entry. we owe the same level of protection and safety to our legal residents. we must use all the tools in our toolboxes, share resources and intelligence to truly restore enforcement of our nation's immigration laws for the safety and security of our citizens. public safety is my number one priority. public safety is your number one priority. public safety is any government's and any government official's number one priority.
11:01 am
it's what brings me here today. it's arguably no bigger threat to public safety than illegal immigration. mr. chairman and esteemed members of this committee, i want to thank you for inviting me to testify this morning on what is perhaps the most dangerous threat to national security and the safety of all americans. good immigration law exists by legislatures by you decades ago. however, if a law's not enforced it's useless verbiage protecting no one and accomplishing nothing. as a sheriff for 20 years and police officer for six more i spent my career enforcing laws. i have a sworn duty to uphold the constitution of the united states and enforce all laws whether i agree or disagree with them. just as you took the oath of office to discharge the duties of the office on which you entered. the law is what you and the courts say it is, but unfortunately due to years of liberal policies tailored to non enforcement, congress has to hold hearings on how to enforce laws that have been on the books
11:02 am
for decades. most of my law enforcement colleagues will agree that severe damage has been done by national security by lacks in enforcement and the only thing we can do now is move forward and discuss how we can fix it. our nation would be better off and our citizens would be safer if we never stopped enforcing immigration law. local county, state, federal law enforcement all working together to keep the public safe. sharing resources and intelligence as much as possible, working together as one team with the simple goal of keeping the public safe. our law enforcement team has an opposing team that consists of local officials, elected or appointed, who have created and abdicated cities, states, communities and even colleges. these officials pledge not to work with, cooperate, or even communicate with federal immigration enforcement.
11:03 am
as a result, these safe zones have become magnets for illegal aliens, some of which have violent criminal records. at best, sanctuary cities are a direct violation of trust between the legal res departments and the elected officials who took an oath to protect them at all costs. at the worst, it's careless, illegal, and extremely dangerous. if these sanctuary cities are going to harbor and conceal criminal illegal aliens from ice which is in direct violation of title 8 of the u.s. code, federal arrest warrants should be issued for their elected officials. at a time when these officials are pledging to not work with federal law enforcement, i've doubled down on my commitment to partner with federal authorities and boost public safety by becoming the second organization in new england to enter into 287-g. if there's one thing our country learned from 9/11, it's that all branches of law enforcement have to work together and share resources as much as possible. in the 287-g program correction
11:04 am
officers in my department will become with the training and de facto ice agents will be able to perform all actions. we will be able to identify, process, detain, assist in deportation of illegal ail yens in the database. instead of waiting for an ice agent to drive hours to our facility for an immigration screening which time the suspect may be bailed out, our officers can check the databases, interview the suspect, and electronically communicate with ice to keep dangerous criminals, illegal aliens off of our streets and out of our neighborhoods. they estimate fou hundred thousand immigrants were identified for deporstation for 287-g. programs between 2006 and 2013. about 13,000 foreign-born immigrants were processed in our community in the past five years. this program is result in just one dangerous criminal illegal alien not being able to commit a
11:05 am
crime in the u.s. deportation say tremendous stool in our toolbox and a no-brainer in terms of public safety. >> i want to just inform the committee of something that was just reported this morning that i think completely underscores my point about immigration laws being undermined in the united states. we have a state representative in the tenth plymouth district of massachusetts that was just reported this morning who learned that ice may be coming to the city of brock ton in plijmouth county. sent an all alert mess able out on facebook telling everything that ice is going to be coming archd make sure you don't answer your doors and make sure that you stay out of sight. this is the most outrageous thing that i think or example of what is going on across the united states that's undermining my job and every other law enforcement officer in the united states to keep our community safe. and that elected official is responsible for protecting the welfare of the people of their
11:06 am
communities. he needs to understand that they could be protecting someone who ice is looking for that maybe possibly connected to terrorism, transnational gangs, or some other horrific criminal history that they've had. thank you for the time, mr. chairman. thank you members of the committee. >> thank you. ms. vaughan. >> good morning. and thank you for the opportunity to testify on this very timely topic, restoring the enforcement of our nation's immigration laws. president obama's policy left immigration enforcement in a state of collapse. this has been bad news for the country, but the good news is that there's nowhere to go but up now. the obama administration claims that they achieved record levels of deportation, but in fact the total number of deportation by all enforcement agencies which is what the dh svgs office of statistics have always reported has plummeted. actually, deportations were half the level of the bush and clinton administrations. interior deportation business ice dropped by 70% since 2011 as
11:07 am
illustrated by charts in my written statement the. the obama administration inflated isis numbers by counting cases of people arrested by the border patrol that had never been counted before as former secretary fdhs johnson admitted before condpres if the at the claimed that they were doing smarter and more effective immigration enforcement but in fact they operated a massive catch and release program both at the border and in the interior. about 40% of the people caught by the border patrol trying to cross into the country illegally in 2014 and 2015 were allowed to enter and still here in 2016. just this morning i was on a conference call with an ice field office director and some local law enforcement agencies in her area and this ice official said that they have seen an increase of 20% to 25% in their caseload as a result of new illegal immigration at the southwest border. not other the illegal border
11:08 am
crossers still here, so are about 950,000 other illegal aliens who have completed their due process and received a final order of removal but are still here in the country. and, the smarter more effective enforcement in the interior included releasing more than 86,000 convicted criminal aliens in three years. more that be 100 of these individuals were arrested for homicide after their release, including one man who killed 21-year-old grant rona beck in mason, arizona, in 2015 after being released. the previous administration claimed that they were focused on felons, not families. but, in fact, deportations of criminal aliens declined by 60% since 2011 even as they implemented the secure kmoounts communities program allowing ice to died phi for criminal aliens than ever before. the previous administration claimed that they were simply exercising what they called prosecutorial disstregs kregs, but in fact they were giving out immigration benefits. literally millions of work permits to illegal aliens and
11:09 am
others not otherwise eligible to stay. the obama administration claimed that their vetting of these applicants was rigorous but then released a report saying that more than 500,000 foreign visitors overstayed in 2015. the vetting for work permits was no better. hundreds have been issued to gang members and other criminals, just last week it was revealed that a man who had been arrested for killing his 15-year-old step daughter in texas had been issued a work permit. he had arrests on his record for smuggling, assault, and theft and ice was trying to deport him but instead he was issued a work permit under the previous administration's policies. i don't -- i don't dismiss the disappointment of families who have been allowed to live here illegally for all these years or gotten away with it, but this lack of enforcement has imposed enormous costs on american communities. these costs include lost job opportunities and stagnate wages for native workers, higher tax
11:10 am
bills to cover increased outlays for social services and benefits, comp promieds national security, and increase public safety threats. the trump administration has already taken steps to reverse the state of affairs and all ready to good effect. these end of the caption release policies at the border they've discarded the strict scream that allowed so many aliens from deportation. they're taking accepts to rebuild partnerships with local law enforcement allegations including expanding the successful 287-g program. they're planning to use accelerated forms of deportation process so as not to drag it out and clogging up the courts even further if the. reviving tax forces and other transnational crime, the intire infrastructure that supports i will los angeles immigration. some things can only be done by congress. no matter how many agents are hired, how much more rigorous our vetting system becomes, as
11:11 am
long as employers think that they can get away with hiring illegal workers, they're will keep doing and as long as there's someone who will hire them, people in other countries will keep trying to come here illegally. we need congress to enact a phase-in universal requirement to help turn off the job magnet that motivates so many. we need the davis oliver act to shower up the weak sparts in the national/international agent and we need to address the interference with ice to keep criminals here. finally, congress must reduce opportunities for executive abuse of authorities on work permits, paroled dlef differed d a work around the laws created by congress. thank you. >> mr. chairman, ranking member, i thank you and i thank chairman go goodlatte for the opportunity to testify on this important topic.
11:12 am
i've been involved in immigration for more than two decades. when i started the act was in its fifth year of implementation. it will turn 31 on november the 6th but the premises of this legislature remain sound today that immigration is essential to well-being of the country, that our immigration laws must be enforced to be effective, and that employment is a magnet that draws immigrants to the united states. unfortunately, the 86 act has never been fully enforce dollars. the employer sanctions provisions have never been implemented effectively and the document froud fraud provisions are all but a dead letter. as a result, the job's magnet has not been shut off and the population of aliens in the united states illegally today dwarves that which coned the 99th congress. i am hopeful that your efforts and oversight will result in immigration system that both addresses the needs of our country and protects the wages and working conditions of all
11:13 am
americans, both citizens and lawful permanent residents. much has changed in immigration since november, 1986, but the primary change has been an expansion of the focus of enforcement on national security. the main reason that i left the ins where i had been acting chief of the national security law division in july of 2001 to come to this committee was because i did not believe that we were doing enough to address the terrorist threat from abroad. i was in this room when the chairman and ranking member conyers took step needed to address that threat, and i'm grateful for their leadership. but i believe more still needs to be done. for eight years i served as an immigration judge in york, pennsylvania. as a judge in a detained court my dokt consisted of lawfully admitted aliens who committed offenses. ail yens lawfully present in the united states who had been apprehended on the border.
11:14 am
i'll focus on this latter group today. much attention has been placed on the vetting of refugees. i can speak to that matter further but i think it's important for the members to also focus on a separate but similar group of aliens, those and expeditable reruffle proceedings. aliens claiming credible fear have not been screened before coming to the united states and for reasons that i detail in my written statement are jurn generally not screened effectively after they enter either. a few of these individuals have actually bypassed the refugee screening process altogether leaving refugee camps and making their way to the southern border of the united states where they are april preended or turn themselves in to u.s. immigration authorities. unlike the orderly system that the united states government has in place abroad for refugee admission, the system for screening those entering illegally is overburdened and lacks the necessary resources to effectively separate those who may pose a danger to the united states from those in legitimate need of protection.
11:15 am
rumors abroad fueled in part by a failure within the united states to enforce immigration laws have also encouraged men, women, and children to trust their livestor smugglers and traffickers. savage and debased nature of those who pray on the desperate and who's stock and trade is human isserry. enforcing our immigration laws will quail those rumors and undercut the ability of smugglers to pedal their trade. it has been argued that some of those seeking to enter the united states illegally have been told my smugglers, friends, that is there no real cost to entering illegally. if they avoid apprehension they will never be removed but if they are apprehended at the border they can still stay by making fraudulent asylum claims. this is unfortunately true. many asylum claims are
11:16 am
contradicted by the record as a whole. the ability of government officials, border patrol agents, ice attorneys, immigration judges to identify fraud in the credible peer process is crucial to swellching those rumors and to the prevention of that misery before it begins. it is also essential if we are to protect the american people from the criminals and national security risks it would take advantage of our humanitarian system to do harm to our kpunts. more resources better directed are needed to address this problem. legal immigration including the refugee process, visa issuance and admissions at the port is the front door of america and it must be secure. it is equally important that threats to our country, to our immigration system are not able to abuse our laws by sneaking in through the backdoor. >> i thank each of you and i look forward to your questions. >> thank you very mut much. ms. pyati.
11:17 am
>> thank you. the justice seb center say nonpartisan national nonprofit for over 20 years has provided legal services to immigrant survivors of human trafficking, sexual assault, and domestic violence. as an advocate for victims, i am honored to be invited to comment today on the importance of protecting public safety while still enforcing our federal immigration laws. over the years, i have heard hundreds of women and girls tell me stories of exploittation and abuse by men who visually capitalized on disparities in economic and social status to establish their power and control over their victims. among the most vulnerable to this, immigrant women and girls face a number of challenges to accessing help, including lang wam bear rerz area limited resources, inakt to work legally, and fear of deportation. many abusers use a woman's lack of immigration status as a
11:18 am
poetent tool by threatening that their victims could be deported away from their children. this is an all to familiar narrative from my organization's clients, many of whom have been harmed by u.s. citizen men. congress recognized this when in 1994 with row best bipartisan support it passed the violence against women act and created in 2000 the visa programs to strengthen the ability of law enforcement agencies to detect, investigate, and prosecute cases of domestic violence, sexual assaults, and trafficking. these laws encourage victims to report and cooperate with law enforcement to help get violent criminals off our streets and make all of us safer. these critical protections and the public policy goals of community safety they serve are now being significantly undermined because of misguided immigration enforcement policies. secure communities, 287-g agreements and the like rely on a false narrative. there is no data to suggest that
11:19 am
localities of community trust policies has more criminal activity than others. on the other hand, there is data to suggest that localities of community trust policies have actually achieved a reduction in crime. i heard just a few weeks ago a very compelling story by one police chief who told me that one morning there was a gentleman driving his car with his domestic partner, his girlfriend in the car with him. she attempted i'm sure was a victim of domestic violence she was attempting to escape the car. he dragged her back in, slammed the dar and shot her right there at 9:00 a.m. in the morning in broad daylight. the gentleman kicked her out of the car and sped away. there were only two eyewitnesss to this crime, two undocumented men who were day laborers standing outside a store nearby. when police came to try to investigate the crime and find the man who murdered this woman, they questioned the wits. the witnesses said, they would be happy to cooperate but asked
11:20 am
for assurance that they wouldn't be deported. when the police gave them that reassurance, they were able to identify the sale ants and were able to apprehend him and prosecute him and bring him to justice. more than six hundred jurisdictions nationwide have enacted policing strategies to enhance this goal of public safety. a recent report concluded that there are on average 35.5 fewer crimes committed per 10,000 people in so-called sanctuary counties than there are in nonsanctuary counties. for this reason, major policing groups including the major cities chief's association have opposed efforts to defund so-called sanctuary jurisdictions. the policies of the january 25 executive order on interior enforcement are already having a devastating chilling effect on reporting of criminal activity. in denver city attorney bronson informed her office that they no longer wished to pursue charges
11:21 am
against their abusers out of fear of doing so will place them at risk for deportation. in los angeles police chief said that reports of sexual assault have dropped by 25% and domestic violence by 10% among the la teen nope population since the beginning of the year. less than three weeks after the president issued the executive order, ice agents arrested an imgrangt woman outside a courthouse in el paso texas where she had gone to seek an offered protection from her abuser. the results fear of reporting spread like wildfire. domestic violence shelters in highly diverse areas reported a large drop in the number of women coming in for services indicating that undocumented victims aren't taking the next steps to escape i scape abusers such as pressing smelters. after being brutal beaten by her husband while she was pregnant recently said i need help. you believed that the police
11:22 am
were there to help you not that they would come and deport you now i think they would just come and deport me because that's what my husband was telling me and that what we are hearing everywhere. that is what we are seeing now, even though i did not commit any crimes. i applaud this committee for taking so serious the issues such as trafficking, sexual assault and domestic violence. i hope your concern spreads to all victims including immigrants and those victimized by united states citizens. i trust you will direct your outrage towards strengthening laws and pursuing policies that will actually pro protect our societies. the 287-g will not effectively prevent crime instead they leave perpetrators on the streets. i urge congress to avoid crafting policies that seem like they could enhance safety but will in fact have exactly the opposite impact. thank you. >> thank you very much. i see the chairman of the full committee is here and without objection i will recognize him
11:23 am
for ten minutes for his opening statement and his questions without objection, the gentleman from virginia is recognized for ten minutes. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman, for your forebear reince and i want answer and i want to thank all the witnesses for their testimony today. when the obama administration sailed off it left in its weak a systematically dismantled enforcement infrastructure through so-called priorities defined by the president, not congress, the administration dramatically scaled by immigration enforcement and allowed millions of unlawful and criminal aliens to remain in the country free of consequence. by terminating successful programs, including secure communities, the administration permitted, if not encouraged, sanctuary city practices and policies. this left us with an immigration system more broken, more dysfunctional, and far friendlier to those that play
11:24 am
grantly disregard our nation's immigration laws, es specially criminal aliens. the effects of eight years of not so benign neglect of immigration enforcement will be felt for many years. earlier this month, two students at rockville high school in rockville maryland brutally rained and attacked a fellow stud den. reports indicate that the perpetrators of this crime both entered the company as unaccompanied alien miners from central america likely drawn here by the obama administration's policy of releasing illegal aliens to the families in the united states. this was a double tragic because both an impact on a young girl's life and it could have been prevented by sengs able immigration enforcement. school districts around the country are facing a gang epidemic partly fueled by the obama administration's policies. as this case and the countless others dem demonstrate, illegal
11:25 am
immigration is not a victimless crime. foolhardy jurisdictions continue to pass legislation and implement policies aimed at stymieing immigration and customs enforce mentd officers from enforcing the law. the same week as the tragedy in rock ville, they called on ice to only arrest those posing, quote, serious risk, end quote. in discussing this initiative the council member likened ice officers to not seize several times. such receiptor roik is reprehensible creating a nation exercise a fund fundamental right and sovereignty. it is ironic given that the united states has long had the most generous immigration system in the world. in a deeply troubling move, san francisco even announced that it would no longer participate in the joint terrorism task force because of concerns that the task force's duties may coincide with immigration enforcement.
11:26 am
sanctuary policies often focus on ice detainers. notices issued by ice to allow it to take custody of aliens in law enforcement custody in order to initiate removal proceedings. these irresponsible sanctuary policies have led to a sharp drop in ice's intake of aliens which forces them to engage in the far more time consuming and dangerous task of picking them up on the streets. the trump administration is issue a weekly report of declined detainers nationwide. during the first week of the administration, 206 detainers were not honored nationwide. leading to the release of aliens who were arrested for or convicted of sex assaults, aggravated saultsds assaults, arson, robbery and many other serious offenses. the new administration only two months old has already started
11:27 am
to right the ship. on january 25th he signed two executive orders aimed at securing our nation's borders and strengthening interior enforcement of our immigration laws. these executive orders nudge the rudder of this massive ship in the right direction. i am encourage thatd new administration's enforcement priorities include all aliens who are threats to public safety and national security and restores the secure communities program. just yesterday attorney general sessions announced that sanctuary cities will be ineligible for justice department grants. progress at the border has been dramatic. the number of illegal aliens apprehended decreased by over 40% in the first month of the new administration by over 60% in the second month. yet, while this is encouraging, many thousands still make the dangerous trek across the border in order to turn themselves in and game our asylum system. it is no secret that credible fear and asylum claims have been
11:28 am
being rubber stamped with claimants release wds work authorization as they await their hearings, some now scheduled for 2021. i applaud the president for addressing bogus credible claims in the executive order. as much as i'm encouraged by what the new administration is doing within the current statutory framework, it also needs new statutory tools to enforce the mem aggregation laws. over the past two congresses this committee has approved such measures to provide such tools to the administration including providing that unaccompanied mineners are safely and expect dishlly returned home, that the federal government will work with local jurisdictions that want to provide assistance in enforcing immigration laws that sanctuary cities will lose federal funds curtailing fraud in the asylum process are r arnd to allow for the detention of dangerous aliens. sheriff hodgeson, welcome i
11:29 am
appreciate your testimony. could you tell us what value do you see in involving local law enforcement in immigration enforcement? >> thank you were congressman. it is imperative that we participate in local law enforcement. one of the things that president trump made very clear in one of his vent speeches was that to the sheriffs was, look, we recognize that you all have your boots on the ground, you have the information, the intimate relationships with the gang activities and the things that are going on, the intelligence we get through the prisons. these are very important aspects of us working with our federal partners. if we didn't learn anything after 9/11, by the fact that we needed to strengthen our relationships with our federal partners to prevent the citizens of our communities from being victi victimize. we just had a 19-year-old woman
11:30 am
whose father had been deported twice. came over the day before father's day, she got out of her car, shot and killed her right there at her home. these things are happening all over the country. we need to be able -- >> let me interrupt because i've got a limited amount of time. >> sorry. >> and the chairman has been very generous. do you consider state and local enforcement to be competent to the enforcement of immigration laws? >> absolutely i bref the davis oliver should be passed. >> let me turn to ms. vaughan. last week the department of homeland security released it's final dekellyanne outium report. it demonstrated in one week period, january 28th through february 20 tlird there was 206 detainers not honored. what does this say for concerns about public safety in these jurisdictions and other than rls release a weekly report, what else can either the administration or congress do to discourage sanctuary policies? >> i think that report val dade's the concerns that people have had about sanctuary policies and that the
11:31 am
beneficiaries of sanctuary policies are the criminal aliens who get sent back to our community. and i hope that the public will hold their leaders accountable for those policies now that they are that information. in addition to denying funding, i think that in some cases they're going to be die hard sanctuary jurisdictions that want to keep their policies anyway, despite the lack of funding. they want to be martyrs over it. i think that for the sake of public safety the department of justice is going to have to take legal action against those jurisdiction, potentially seeking ann junction. there may be case where's it could be appropriate to even prosecute local officials who deliberately and knowingly harbor an illegal alien from detection and from deportation. >> thank you. mr. arthur, your rin testimony discuss a relglation governing confidentiality and i asylum and limiting third-party disclosure. >> that's correct. >> does this extend in
11:32 am
investigators looking into fraud or national security concerns and what can either the administration or congress do toed a ice or another government agency in its attempt to verify pertinent information with a home government? >> it does. it prevents any disclosure of information that is provided in the asylum application to anyone outside the government. there are very strict limit. but one of the main thing it does is it prevents the information provided in the application from being verified with the home country. there are ways to probably the best thing do would be to amend the regulation to make it clear that information and allegations with respect to arrests can be verified with the home puncount but the fact that they've applied for asylum could not. >> thank you. ms. pyati, in your testimony i notice you refer to localities
11:33 am
that have community trust policies. would you say that montgomery county, maryland, where rockville high school is located, and is a sanctuary jurisdiction, whether that county's community trust policy protected that 14-year-old girl? >> first i want to start by saying of that course what happened to the 14-year-old girl is a tragedy, none of us would have ever expected that to happen and feel horribly sorry for her and what she experienced. >> wouldn't it have been better if those two boys had never arrived in montgomery county, maryland. >> i think there are two different questions were if i may. your first question was whether community trust policies were a part of it at all and the answer is, no, the boys had no criminal record whatsoever before, had never been picked up by law enforcement and therefore a community trust policy had nothing do with what happened that day in that school. secondarily, whether they could have been -- >> i'm sorry it's a violation of the law to cross our border so
11:34 am
weren't they illegally present in the united states? >> they did violate the law by cross our board zbrer weren't they turned over by the previous administration to in one case a parent, another case an uncle? i know the father of the one boy was also illegally present in the united states. >> what happened at the border when they entered is very different than what happened in rockville, misdemeanor. what we're talking -- your question to me was in rockville maryland could the community -- could a defunded sanctuary policy, for example, have prevented the rain and the assistance no to that. i think what happened there was complete i had zblfs i think the enforcement of our laws would have prevented the rain, would it not. >> when they came to the boarder -- >> my time's expired. thank you mr. chairman. >> thank you very much. the chair recognizes him sex for five minsz. let me begin by making a statement. you know, the whole issue of sanctuary cities is something that is very disturbing because it is an attempt by those jurisdictions to nullify federal law. and to say that federal law does not apply in the sanctuary city.
11:35 am
now, this country suffered probably the worst trauma in its history when certain states over 150 years ago decided that they have the power to nullify federal law, and there are over half a million people that were killed during are the civil war. and i think that the horror of that has been forgotten. secondly, you know, i am very disturbed by saying that there are certain types of federal laws that state and local law enforcement do not enforce. you know, i guess i can say that robbing a bank is a federal offense and i don't think the state and local law enforcement wait for the fbi to come to respond to the bank and try to catch the people who are committing the federal felony in the process of trying to clean out the bank's till. now, having said that statement, let me ask you, ms. vaughan, under current immigration law
11:36 am
drunk driving is typically that of a removable offense and neither is most gang tiflt. would you favor a change to make those offenses removable so that it is very clear that gang activity and being convicted of a dui would be removable offense? >> absolutely. of course anyone who's in the country illegally is potentially subject to deportation whether they've been driving drunk or not. but i do think that immigration officers and agents need better tools within the ina to make it easier to accelerate the removal of those individuals and to protect the communities. >> i know that in my district there's been at least one real major tragic where a van of families going to church ended up being hit by a drunk driver and some but not all of them were killed. you know, which was a family tragedy that could have been
11:37 am
prevented. how about gang activity, you know were we have a lot of people who have been claiming that they're fleeing groups like ms-13 as they arrive at the border. do any of the witnesses know if there are any people who have made such a claim for asylum that have ended up rejoining the ms-13 once they get across the border? >> from what i understand and have been told by some local law enforcement agencies, there has been instances that they've learned from gang members who are now incarcerated that -- of course not all of the youths of who been crossing illegally from central america are involved with gangs. but the gangs here know that the policy is so lenient that if someone who's a mine more makes it to our border that they will be allowed to reset will in the country with very few questions asked. so they have deliberately taken
11:38 am
advantage of that policy and use today in ordertor boost their ranks of clicks here in the united states in ordertor benefit a gang as a whole. so that is definitely happening. >> thank you. my time is running out. ms. pyati, in your written testimony, page one, you say that your center advocatestor laws and policies that help immigrant survivors of violence including sexual and domestic violence. do you advocate for victims such as the rockville teen? >> absolutely, i do. >> that's good to know. how do you that? >> how do we do that. so when we do have offices in a number of countries, a number of cities around the country, four different cities, we're opening assist a fiveening, you our worth is to meet with victims, understand their situation were hear their stories, now if they have -- are eligible for any form of immigration remedy in this country, interview them extensively to find out if they, in fact, have a credible claim and one that might survive under
11:39 am
the law. and, if so, then offer them free legal assistance in order to be able to enter their claim into the adjudication system. >> okay. and so you don't do, you know, any of the type of counseling that is needed by anyone who's a victim of the sexual assault, you turn that over to somebody else? >> we do. our center offers whole listic services so we have both social workers and lawyers on our staff and we would definitely offer that kind of counsel to somebody who came to us. >> so you are proactive in seeking out and offering those types of services, the victim and the victim's family have to come to you rather you going to them. >> we conduct outreach in the community to be sure that individuals know that we are there, where our offices are, what kinds of services we provide and to make sure that folks know they can come to us. the majority of the people who seek our services have heard about us through word of mouth
11:40 am
as well as through our outreach efforts. >> thank you very much. -- >> thank you mr. chairman. just a couple of onner bservati. i think it's a mistake to use the tragedy on 9/11 where 19 sawed dies during the bush administration entered legal lit united states with visas and then brutally attacked and killed americans with reason to deport nannies and farm workers in 2017, the two do not compute. just in terms of the sanctuary city issue, you know, there's no definition, really, of what a sanctuary -- sanctuary city is. eight usc 1373 which really
11:41 am
originate the out of this committee before it became law does not, i localities to hold people whose -- who are otherwise to be release the to detain them, nor does it, i states and localities to collect information. that would be beyond the authority of the federal government to com men deer states and locates do that. i'm wondering, ms. pyati, the detainers that were outlined in the detainer outcome report, in jurisdictions where the controlling federal court ruling such as the fourth circuit has said compliance with those detainers is an unconstitutional violation of the fourth amendment, what -- what exposure would a locality have if they did what the attorney general
11:42 am
said in the jurisdiction where the -- said that violates the fourth amendment? >> thank you for your question, congresswoman. certainly the local jurisdiction has complete exposure the the federal courts have ruled that detainers that hold individuals after they have been released or could be released by the criminal system for civil law infractions such as immigration law infractions are in -- it's a sues yore that goes down to 48 hours often and that konts constitutes a violation under the fourth amendment and that's the local jurisdiction that's on the hook for that and they woo have full and complete exposure there. >> just a couple of other observations and then, you know, maybe a question. clearly, i mean, the police chiefs and the police officers who i know -- represent are again -- that's why they're in police work. that's why they're called do
11:43 am
that. in santa cruz recently interest therew therewas an effort, the sheriff actually sent his officers out with ice agents because they were going to do an antigang activity. and what he found out, at least what the law enforcement officials of official said was he'll never deal with ice again because instead of doing an antigang activity, they did just general immigration enforcement. now they can't get immigrants to call in to report crimes, they can't get people to be witnesses. so i do think that the distinction between federal and state obligations is an important one. even though we often use, for example, dui wasn't an enforce -- majority under the obama administration. you had a dui you're going to be deported under the obama administration. so i guess the question is, what is that distungs? i've had complaints out of
11:44 am
california that ice agents are putting the word police on their jackets even though they're not police. and the police are greatly concerned about this because it muddies up who's doing what. you think that there's -- when we talk to the secretary of homeland security about this issue and explained that the sheriff in los angeles and the police departments all over california, i mean that because that's where i'm from, are complaining about they said he didn't care. what are your thoughts on that, ms. pooe pyati? do we have an obligation to remedy this? would this be a problem with ice agents having police on their jackets when it comes to domestic violence and sexual assault cases? >> i appreciate your question congresswoman. certainly i think any time we commingle local law enforcement with immigration enforcement we are in a very dangerous game. there are definitely officers
11:45 am
wearing vests that say police and it doesn't make clear that we're talking about ex-aggregation police wapdering around in the spreets. we saw this at times in the became administration and we're seeing it now in this administration. what we see it when people are in the community, let's say, in a home and afraid, i'm not going to pick up the phone and call 911 if i'm not surp who's going to show up at my door. when i need to be sure of is that if my child is watching -- when i call 911 the two -- my child and i are going to find safety and we're going to find protection and the gentleman who's hurting me, whether he's my husband or family member, could be armed, could be dangerous, could be intoxicated, could be a danger to others in the community. and that person is actually going to meet justice. if i'm too scared to call 911 because i'm worried of who i am, where i'm from or the color of my skin, i'm not going to get
11:46 am
fair treatment, safety and protection interest my local police then all of us are less safe. >> my time has expired, i yield back. >> thank you. the gentleman from texas, mr. smith. >> thank you mr. chairman. mr. chairman, many members of congress and many members of the media often say that immigrants are no more likely to commit crime than other individuals, but that, in my view, is a misleading statement because they don't distinguish between illegal immigrants and legal immigrants. when you look at the crimes committed by illegal immigrants, you find out that, for example, 35% of the individuals who are sentenced for federal crimes are illegal immigrants. 35%. well, you i will los angeles immigrants are 3.5% of the population. that means they're ten times more likely to be sentenced for a crime in other legal residents. ten times. and that's why we say rightfully that illegal immigrants are
11:47 am
disproportionately dangerous to innocent americans and dangerous to our communities and dangerous to our neighborhoods. sheriff hodgeson, let me address my first question to you and thank you for your strong testimony on sanctuary cities. another figure that i know you're familiar with is that about a third, 30% or more of those who are released, the criminal immigrants who are released back into our communities are rearrested for another crime. and the fact that we have law enforcement officials sworn to uphold the law intentionally releasing these individuals into our communities really makes me think that they're an accessory to the crimes that these illegal immigrants go on and additionally commit. it is inexcusable. my question is this and you've had so many good years of experience, what should the federal government do about the sanctuary jurisdictions that intentionally release these dangerous individuals back into
11:48 am
our communities? >> thank you, congressman. what i believe they should do is in those instances we cannot say that elected officials who have taken the same oath that we have can decide which laws they're going to fool or not. they should be held to the same standards of accountability than we are. in those instances where they're intentionally harboring or concealing people they know to be in the country illegally they should have federal arrest washts issued for them. no ifs, ands or buts. >> thank you, sheriff. mr. arthur, welcome back. a question four. what programs are most aboouzed by illegal immigrants to try to wrongfully stay in the united states? >> an nick dotally it would appear that asylum is probably the number one source of fraud in the system. port of the problem is the fact that there are no hard and fast studies on fraud in the system.
11:49 am
gao did an analysis back in 2002 in which they found that nobody could realliest mate how much fraud there was. the head of the fdns, the fraud detection national security director testified before this committee back in the 113th congress and indicated that a study had been undertaken that had found a fairly significant amount of fraud but it had never been completed for various reasons with ncis. there is marriage fraud, there is -- there are other forms of fraud, but just based on the number of credibility determinations or adverse credibility determinations and application, it could be asylum. >> do you think it's as major problem or a minor problem, the degree of fraud? >> i would always do a credibility determination in every case that i did.
11:50 am
in every asylum decision that i issued, whether i granted or denied. and i would probably guess that in the -- probably in a fairly large number of those adverse credibility adverse credibility determinations sustained by the immigration appeals where i sat. >> thank you. last question, ms. pyati, what are the three policies you feel would be most effective in keeping criminal immigrants off of our streets and out of our neighborhoods? >> i think the most effective policy would be, first of all, for ice to make better use of the accelerated forms of due process. agents and officers need to be empowered to use detention as the law allows, and we need to take action against the sanctuaries, because they've been releasing a thousand criminal aliens a month for years now, and those we notice
11:51 am
they go on to reoffend and it's a significant public safety -- >> like i said, over 30% arrested for additional crimes. >> i've heard even higher. comparable to reoffense rates. >> thank you. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman, thank the witnesses. let me turn to chief of policy at the harvard justice center.
11:52 am
what's your response to such acclaim as that? >> thank you, congressman. my response is quite simply that when we talk about so-called sanctuary cities and those communities, we have to be very clear that the more than 600 jurisdictions that have adopted these types of policies have adopted a very wide range, and so it would be really impossible to say that they all are engaging in one type of practice or another. some of the jurisdictions are 100% cooperating, but they also offer protections for those who might call 911 or come into an emergency room seeking life-saving emergency services, and so the range of policies is really quite dramatic. it would be very difficult for us to try to make any generalizations about what could be happening on the level of crime in all of these jurisdictions that make some sort of statement that it's
11:53 am
making us all less safe. i think that is an unfair characterization and one that will, in fact, leave more criminals on our streets if we're not very careful. >> and with your experience, do you think that immigrants are more likely to commit crimes in areas with community chest policies? >> i don't know, congressman, honestly, that anyone has measured whether there's a likelihood of committing crime in a certain area or not. i think our likelihood of catching criminals and actually keeping communities safe, especially preventing crime, is much higher in a community with a community trust policy. local law enforcement officers know what they are doing and they know when they are trying to keep a community safe, when they patrol apartment buildings, when they are speaking with members of their town, they are getting real information. when they say who is likely to
11:54 am
be committing an offense, who is a criminal. >> prevented by these community trust policies, it would be hard to say, thousands of crimes, for example, didn't happen because people called the police and trusted the police. it's many easier to pick out the one or two crimes we have seen across america and really shine the light on those than it is to really weigh the benefit of these community trust policies. we can only take our law enforcement officers' word for it. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> my last question is my infamous three-in-one question.
11:55 am
three questions in one. have you worked with law enforcement agencies on strategies to combat domestic violence? what specific challenges have these agencies shared as it relates to criminal arrests and prosecution within the immigrants community, and finally, how do you think the trump administration's approach to withhold federal funds can impact on these local law enforcement efforts? and i'll be happy to repeat any of them if necessary. i don't think you need that. >> i did take notes, congressman, thank you. i do -- our organization does definitely work with local law enforcement agencies across the country, and i know many other organizations like ours do, as well. what we do is, we communicate with local law enforcement. we provide training on
11:56 am
immigration law and on how to recognize victims in the community. we also work with them to identify different cultural barriers that might exist between local law enforcement officers and members of the community so that they might break down those barriers and find ways to actually get critical, vital information from those in the community. some of the specific challenges we've learned involve a number of those that i cited earlier as challenges that the victims face. so it's a two-way street. whether it be language barrier, cultural barriers. many undocumented immigrants come from environments in other countries where trusting law enforcement is not smart, where when you talk to a police officer as a rape victim, for example, you might yourself be revictimized, so to say to a woman as i have had to, honestly, these armed and uniformed police officers are here to help you takes a lot of courage. that's not on my part.
11:57 am
it takes a lot of courage for the victim to look at me and believe me and trust me and want to work with local law enforcement. so those are the challenges we've heard from law enforcement officers. we've also heard about those who prey on immigrant communities. we've heard about from local law enforcement officers people who hold themselves out to be either legal representatives or members of the government. since the trump administration has come into power, there are -- the executive orders have led to a sense of mistrust and fear in the community, but it's also led to a number of people standing outside apartment buildings, for example, in one community i heard this from several, actually, saying we are with immigration and we're here to ask you questions. we'd like to see your papers, then all of a sudden you have people trying to steal identities and trying to take information from law-abiding members of the community. so specific challenges law enforcement faces involve in the
11:58 am
policing in a cooperative way in communities that historically have not felt included in law enforcement efforts. and the trump administration, honestly, i think coupled -- the actual executive orders that came in january, coupled with rhetoric from the campaign trail, together, has led to a sense of fear among community members, also a sense of confusion. what are our rights, where can we go for help, who can we call? advocates have been calling up from around the country, thousands actually, asking, so, if a victim tells me she's been raped several times by her husband and he's actively beating her, do i tell her to call police or not? we don't know. these are strategies we have for decades now been so lucky to have in the country, the opportunity to tell victims, look, america understands violence is something we have needed to prevent. call your police officer, he or she will help you. we don't know what to say
11:59 am
anymore. >> thank you. time has expired. gentleman from arizona, mr. bates. >> thanks, mr. chairman, and thank you, mr. chairman, for convening this hearing today. it's important and i thank all the panelists for being here. one of our panelists recently indicated that one or two crimes we shouldn't focus on one or two crimes that we've seen across america, yet one recent 15-month period in maricopa county, the largest county in arizona, more than 3,600 criminally violent illegal aliens were released back on to the streets of the state's largest county. there are two things to point out about that. we know they were criminally violent because they had been in the system, charged and convicted of crimes, yet they were released without being deported, so i appreciate ms. vaughn mentioning the case where an unfortunate 21-year-old clerk had been brutally shot and killed for failing to deliver a
12:00 pm
pack of cigarettes to a criminally violent illegal alien who had been convicted and yet was on the streets of maricopa county. that's why i introduced grant's law here in congress, which should pass. it is a no-brainer, and it requires the very accelerated due process requirements ms. vaughn has mentioned. i wanted to talk specifically with regard to you, ms. vaughn, with regard to the apprehension rates reported. if we were to look at the apprehension rates, historically we'd see there were consistently over a million people, sometimes more than 1.5 million people apprehended at the border and that began to slow down in 2006 -- 2007 was the first time reported apprehension was beginning to decline below 1 million, but all experts talked
12:01 pm
about apprehension, border apprehensions, and this is the southern border. first is the multiplier, people who actually cross and remain in the country. those numbers have been the lowest number i've ever seen reported was opined by several senators to be four times the regular apprehension rate. last year 415,000 illegal aliens were apprehended at the southern border, more than half were other than mexican nationals coming into this country. so, i guess my question for you could you please comment on the multiplying effect and whether the numbers were accurate for that ten-year period under the obama administration where we saw the actual apprehension rate dip below 330,000. in 2015, whether that was accurate, and how that is, please. >> unfortunately, the border patrol does not have full situational awareness to know
12:02 pm
that important number of who was not apprehended. there was a very credible study that was done, commissioned by dhs, that found in the end of 2015 the estimated apprehension rate of people trying to cross illegally was only 54%. so that suggests there's at least one person succeeding for every one that's caught. this is -- and there is also a low apprehension rate of people trying to get through in car trunks or as imposters or whatever. and most concerning is the high rate of people caught at the border patrol but entered anyway either because of policy or prioritization policy in november 2014 where they were told to let people go if they
12:03 pm
claim to have been here before january 2014. on the head of the national border patrol council has said at that time he estimated border patrol agents were letting as much as 80% of the people they encountered stay in the country. >> thank you. sheriff hodgson, thank you for being here, as well. we previously talked about drunk driving and gang membership being disqualifiers for remaining in this country. i want to relate the story of brandon mendoza, mesa police sheriff -- police officer, who was driving in 2014, march of 2014, almost exactly two years ago, when an illegal alien who had been apprehended at least three times, once committing crimes in colorado, was -- had a
12:04 pm
blood alcohol level over three times the limit in arizona and driven the wrong way for 33 miles when he hit officer mendoza's car and killed him, tragically. >> time of the gentleman has expired. will he ask his question? >> yes, thank you. my question, do you think enforcement of immigration laws by local agencies have a chilling effect on community participation and reporting of crimes? >> congressman, i don't think so. i believe that the crimes that are happening in our communities, illegals are not going to report those crimes. it's no different than what happens in america with criminals, people who have done something wrong. i don't understand why people have a problem with people feeling afraid that they've done something wrong in this country. if you have done something wrong, you should feel afraid and you should be concerned if you violated the laws, and so i don't think more than anyone else in the country if you've
12:05 pm
done something wrong, there are going to be people who will come forward, others who will, but the realities are, these things are happening in every community throughout the united states. >> thank you very much. gentlewoman from washington. >> mr. chairman, i'm here. i call on people in the order in which they appear for the committee. she appeared before you. >> i was here when everybody started. >> okay. >> i know you don't want to hear from me, but i was here. >> i'm always happy to hear from you. >> then you should follow regular order. i was here, present. i listened to all four of the witnesses, i was here for all of their testimony. >> okay. well, i just got a list from the staff on who appeared in what order, they must have made a mistake. gentleman from illinois is recognized for five minutes. would you please reset the clock? >> thank you. >> so we get it all. >> i want to make sure we talk
12:06 pm
about it from the start. maybe we should start right there. it was so popular you don't even want to talk about it, but let's go on to some other stuff. number one, here we go again. doesn't change. ms. vaughn, she's always here, she's a regular. she'd be out of a job if we fix this problem, and we can fix this problem. she'd be out of a job. sheriff, they kind of rotate the sheriffs who come and say what you say all the time. judge, you're a new experience here, thank you for the advocacy for our immigrant community. we're not here to solve a problem, we're here to say that immigrants are drunk drivers, murderers, rapists, and gang members. because it doesn't change. but that shouldn't surprise us, since we have a president who says that all mexicans are murderers, rapists, and drug dealers. >> the gentleman from illinois will comply with the rules in referring to the president. >> i'll say donald trump. is that okay?
12:07 pm
>> no, it's what you said, whether it's president or donald trump. >> he did say it. >> the gentleman will comply with the rules and not cast aspersions on the president, because those are rules of the house and the gentleman from illinois knows that. >> let me just repeat that. we have a president of the united states that said, and i can bring the youtube video, that mexicans are murderers, rapists, and drug dealers. but let's move on. so it doesn't really surprise me the conversation we're having here, because it's not looking for a solution, it's looking for a demonization of a community of people to score political points and not to resolve it. because we could resolve it. we could resolve this problem, but we don't want to, just like we don't want to resolve the health care issue in this country. we don't want to resolve it. we want to make a political point about the health care issue in this country. if we wanted to resolve it, we could do it. see, what we have here is people
12:08 pm
that say how do we expect to restore western civilization with other people's babies? that's what we have. members of congress saying. and that's part of what goes on here. it's a demonization, it's other people's babies, it's this constant -- which i have to say, president's playing one big role in all of it. because you see, today there are a million, at least 5 million american citizen children who live in fear of their federal government. live in fear of their federal government. because people go around calling their moms and dads murderers, rapists, killers, drug dealers, and drunk drivers. millions of american children. shame on us for not responding. you know what those murderers and rapists do every weekend now under this administration? they go see lawyers so they can
12:09 pm
prepare in the eventuality they are deported, that's what they are doing, filling out guardianship papers, the car, how do you deal with the house, how do you deal with the contingency, what family member is going to be there. shame on us for not resolving this problem and leaving a legacy of abuse against those 5 million mexicans -- everyone wants to talk about the undocumented, which you call illegal, right? i want to talk a minute about those that are here legally in this country. those american citizen children, and that's what we do. and so we sit by smugly and we talk about 9/11. but we have a muslim ban and they didn't even include saudi arabia in the muslim ban, yet last time i checked, every last person that attacked this country was from saudi arabia. you know what it is? it's politics, because also they want to make us afraid of who? of the muslims! so they have a muslim ban. they call mexicans one thing, muslims another thing, then they say we're going to leave the gay
12:10 pm
people alone, until they decided transgender children and transgender community would be one we are going to attack. that's what happens here. so we do not resolve the problem. we can resolve this problem, because i happen to know for a fact that there are over 60 members of the republican caucus who today would vote for a comprehensive immigration reform bill. today. but we're not allowed to vote for that bill. and you know what evidence i have? check last week. why? because you have radical on that side of the aisle who say we will not allow there to be a vote on an issue, so they withdrew their own immigration bill. that's why we can't deal with this. we can deal with this in the senate. we have 68 senators come together in the summer of 2013 to help solve this problem. and how could we do it? it's quite easy we could do it, because what you do is, see, what we all know, sheriff, here's what we all know.
12:11 pm
the resources do not exist of the federal government to pick up, jail, and deport 11 million people. you know what they can do? insist on bringing fear to those people. shame on all of us. >> time of the gentleman has expired. he can see the clock up there like all the rest of us. >> and you took -- mr. chairman, you took at least 15, 20 seconds. >> no, no, if you were listening to me mr. gentleman from illinois, i asked that the clock be reset. >> no, you reset it one time, but not during the second intervention. ed has a video of this. >> okay, well -- >> okay what? >> now you know why we have difficulty -- >> mr. chairman, mr. chairman, mr. chairman -- mr. chairman? i'd ask unanimous consent mr. gutierrez be given an additional minute. >> objection. >> objection heard.
12:12 pm
gentleman from iowa mr. king is recognized. >> i would note i was watching that clock and you did reset it out of courtesy and i would point out also there was a complete and utter rebuttal of mr. gutierrez's statement on november 8th. the american people went to the polls and said we want the law enforced and we want our streets safe. and so i want to first turn to sheriff hodgson and point out in your testimony that says, the human cost and emotional impact on crimes committed by illegals is beyond measure. could you speak to that? i know it's a thoughtful statement. >> in one community in massachusetts, milford, massachusetts, there were three people killed by illegals. we're seeing these situations happen all over the country. there's nothing wrong with us enforcing the laws that are on the books, and you can't ask law enforcement. look, if there are members of
12:13 pm
the legislature that want to change the laws, come here and lobby congress, but don't tell us we have to violate our oath and allow our citizens who we're protecting to be exposed to greater risks. that's what's going on, congressman. >> thank you, sheriff, and you pointed out also the facebook post that gave a heads-up that i.c.e. agents were coming into the community, and i want to -- so i opened up the federal code here, usc-1324 and i want to read this into the record. i want to ask you and others what you think about prosecuting under this. that individual or any individual. and this is 8-usc-1324. any person who -- and i'm going to cut out irrelevant language. any person who conceals, harbors, or shields from detection or attempts to or any person who encourages or induces an alien to come to, enter, reside in the united states, knowing that such coming to or
12:14 pm
entry or residence is or will be in violation of law or who engages in any conspiracy to commit any kind of proceeding acts or who aids and abets the commission of any of the proceeding acts is guilty of violation of this statute and if they did it for a financial gain, facing a ten-year penalty. if it wasn't for a financial gain, a five-year penalty. sheriff, you looked at that section, i know. >> congressman, i've been repeating that section every chance i get, because truth is, the law is the law. it's up to five years for illegal immigrants in that case and i've called for the boston may yor and summerville, massachusetts, i will leave city hall if i have to, as well as in summerville where the mayor said i'll open my home. my answer to that was, act on title 8, issue arrest warrants and we'll figure out real fast how popular sanctuary cities
12:15 pm
will be in this country. >> absolutely agree with you. and i'll turn to ms. vaughn, were you -- did you have this section in mind when you made that statement? >> yes, indeed. >> is it your advocacy, do you concur with sheriff hodgson? >> yes, i do. when a judge takes an illegal alien out the side door of the courthouse to avoid i.c.e., when a jail does not permit i.c.e. access to the jail to interview inmates, when a law enforcement agency receives a detainer that gives probable cause to hold a criminal alien and they have information on that individual's crimes, all of those are shielding illegal aliens from i.c.e. >> when a judge facilitates that kind of escape from their chambers, you're suggesting specifically a usc-1324 as a means to enforce. >> yes, and there are penalties there. especially when that individual
12:16 pm
who was shielded goes on to cause further harm in the community and potentially creates new victims or does, in fact, after they are released, as we know has happened. these are not isolated cases. >> and there is a means congress can act on their own without a presidential signature, and what i'm thinking of is the impeachment of such judge. what's your advice to us on that? >> i don't know the law with respect to the standards for judge impeachment. >> we set the standards, render the constitution. so under those terms? >> i think that would be an effective deterrent to try to nip this problem. >> mr. arthur? >> i'm not aware of any case law that does that, but one thing that -- would advise, but one thing i would say, mr. king, is that the job that we ask our i.c.e. officers to do is a difficult one, and when it is subverted by individuals deliberately, i am not familiar
12:17 pm
with the specific case, it just makes that job more difficult. here's really the crucial part of that. if it's a public place and the officer has the opportunity to make an arrest, generally it's a controlled situation. if the officers have to go to the home of that individual, it's not a controlled situation anymore. my uncle, my aunt were both law enforcement officers in the city of baltimore for many years. the worst thing that any police family can ever hear is that their loved one's not coming home, and if you put -- if you put an agent in harm's way, i don't understand that. >> thank you, mr. arthur. my time i yield back. >> time of the gentleman is expired. gentlewoman from washington is now recognized. >> thank you, mr. chairman, and thank you to our panel for being here. i must say that i have had a challenge listening to our majority witnesses today. i have worked on immigration
12:18 pm
issues for the last 20 years of my life. i've been on a domestic violence agency board for many years, and i appreciate the testimony of ms. pyati in really trying to set the record straight about exactly why we have a division between federal law enforcement, immigration law enforcement, and -- excuse me, between federal law enforcement and local law enforcement. and there is a very specific reason why there is 600 jurisdictions across the country who have actually said the role of local law enforcement is to enforce public safety, not to get involved in federal immigration laws enforcement. and some people don't realize this, but i think it's worth saying again for anybody who might be watching this hearing and perhaps some of the you on the panel, this is not a criminal system, this is a civil system. so when somebody violates
12:19 pm
immigration laws simply.
12:20 pm
where 68 senators agreed that we should pass an immigration reform bill, because they understand the hypocrisy of a country. the hypocrisy of a country that utilizes the labor of immigrants if you eat fruits or vegetables, you utilize the labor of immigrants. if you stay in hotel rooms, you utilize the labor of immigrants. there are numerous places across this country where you simply cannot wake up in the morning without utilizing the labor of undocumented immigrants that have been building this country, so that would be a solution that we should really move towards. now, i want to talk about quickly about immigration detainers and then ask ms. pyati a question about domestic violence and victims of crime. the overwhelming number of sanctuary jurisdictions are not violating the law. let us be very clear about this. the vast majority of sanctuary policies, if you looked at the
12:21 pm
constitution and usc-1373 do not prevent citizenship and immigration status information from being shared. and, in fact, when we worked on these sanctuary policies in my home state of washington, my prosecutor dan satterburg who i'll quote from in a second, as well as our local police chief, have been terrific about understanding that their mission is to promote community trust and that they can only do that if they pass policies that ensure that people understand they are not enforcing immigration law, they are trying to protect public safety. and i wanted to read to you what the -- what our -- association, the major cities chiefs association stated. immigration laws are very complex and the training required to understand them significantly detracts from the core mission of local police to create safe communities, and
12:22 pm
recently our county prosecutor published an op-ed in the "seattle times" where he said from my position as king county prosecutor -- this is a prosecutor -- i can tell you that these actions have the opposite effect for crime victims, and he's talking specifically about the -- about all of the immigration executive orders that this president has signed. and here's what he said, when victims of crime are afraid to trust police and the court, the only winners are violent people, because our top mission is public safety. this crackdown, in quotes, is an immediate and serious concern to those of us who work to protect our residents. so, ms. pyati, could you tell me in your opinion, is local law enforcement qualified to act as immigration enforcement agents? >> the time of the gentlewoman has expired. ms. pyati, why don't you answer her answer? >> i'll answer quickly, chairman, thank you. i don't believe they are.
12:23 pm
thank you, congresswoman, for asking the question. the immigration code is huge. some compare it to the tax code in its complexity and diversity of issues it tackles. just like i wouldn't ask my doctor to fill out my taxes, i don't want the person who's in charge of my safety to be also spending his time worrying about the immigration law. immigration laws should be enforced by the federal government, not by our local police. >> thank you, ms. pyati. mr. chairman, if there's no opposition, i would like to introduce for the record the statement from our supreme court justice on this issue in particular, as well as an additional statement from our -- just that statement. >> without objection. >> thank you. >> gentleman from idaho. >> thank you, mr. chairman and each of the witnesses for being here today. since being elected to congress in 2010, i have consistently advocated for some form of immigration reform. and i've consistently advocated
12:24 pm
for achieving immigration reform by addressing each aspect of our immigration system separately and in order. that makes sense to the american people. i believe that before we can address those who are currently here illegally or how to best modernize our visa programs, we must ensure our immigration laws are properly enforced. that must come first. this requires congress acting to provide those who enforce our immigration laws with the tools and support they need to accomplish their vision. mr. arthur, i want to ask you a quick question, because i hear again and again and again, as a former immigration judge, is entry into the united states without documentation a crime or not? >> it is a misdemeanor. >> it is a misdemeanor. i get tired of hearing it's not a crime. you should want to enforce that law, we could have a discussion here in congress, but it is a misdemeanor to come into the united states illegally. ms. vaughn, why have interior removals declined so much in the past several years?
12:25 pm
>> because of deliberate policies that were put into place by the obama administration to greatly restrict the types of cases that i.c.e. officers could pursue for deportation, and that exempted the -- according to one former i.c.e. official, 99% of illegal aliens who were here. >> what does this say to those who have entered illegally? >> it sends the message that if you can get here, in all likelihood you won't be subject to deportation. >> so we've seen a difference in the last few months over the messaging and the results at the border? >> there are some signs, according to the statistics that have been released by cdp that apprehensions as a measure of attempts have dramatically declined over the last two months and that the smuggling prices have risen, which is taken as an indicator it's much harder to do now. >> mr. arthur, you testified about the impact president obama's executive actions had on
12:26 pm
i.c.e.'s ability to carry out the mission. recently president trump has tried to -- congress needs to act to ensure we don't have dramatic shifts in enforcement policies. one president do one thing and another do something else. what can congress ensure to do future presidents aren't able to unilaterally halter dramatically change interior enforcement activity? >> any amendments to the immigration and nationality act would limit the ability -- have language in it, mandatory language, that would limit the ability for any future president to do something other than what it is. with respect to ability that the secretary of homeland security shall take into custody and shall remove any individual, for example. you could put mandatory language in 237 and 212 of the immigration and nationality act
12:27 pm
and detainer language, as well. >> thank you. i'm very concerned about the number of visa overstays occurring each year. we need to have a system to track individuals. what roadblocks have you seen to implementing a functioning tracking system? >> the lack of will on the part of the federal government to move forward with it. we've got the entry part at airports and sea ports done very effectively, but there simply has not been enough interest in completing the system. >> thank you. sheriff, in your testimony you discuss your participation in section 287-g program. was the training your department received sufficient to be able to effectively assist i.c.e.? >> we're in the process, congressman, of sending our people to -- they'll be going within a couple of months. i've built an immigration detention facility at my complex in dartmouth, so i've been harboring illegals for over a years. >> okay. do you have suggestions how the training could be improved?
12:28 pm
do you have anything that you've gone through the system? >> well, i think the training is critically important. the federal government does cover the costs and that's the biggest part for any jurisdiction is making sure the costs are covered, because we do have in our state some legislators who are attempting to prevent legislation from event participating, suggesting our staff work for the state, therefore, we shouldn't be doing that. which would be contrary and i think the committee needs to know this, if we're going to suggest we can't work with i.c.e., what happens to our federal task forces? we have people that need to be out there every day sharing the information and making sure we have our best foot forward to get these criminals off the street. >> are those task forces making your community more safe or less safe? >> more safe. >> thank you, i yield back. >> gentleman from rhode island, mr. cicilline. >> thank you, mr. chairman. as sheriff hodgson said, public
12:29 pm
safety is our most fundamental responsibility and it's because of that policing policies must be protected because law enforcement rely on trust and cooperation from all their community members, including immigrants, to help prevent, solve, and prosecute crimes. local law enforcement agencies are in the best position to decide which community trust policies work best for the individual localities and that's why many cities have adopted policies to allow immigrants to come forward and seek the assistance of the police without fear. as my former chief said, the single -- and many chiefs across the country said, the single most powerful tool a local police department has is the trust and confidence of the community. president trump's immigration crackdown, which is strong arming local government, has created a climate of fear and uncertainty that's already begun to undermine public safety. the administration's large immigration enforcement operation and the attempt to force local police to do the work of i.c.e. are making immigrants, both documented and
12:30 pm
undocumented, afraid to leave their homes, go to the grocery store, as well as help law enforcement fighting crime. there are also reports crimes of victims are afraid to report these crimes for fear of being apprehended themselves. many of the witnesses in today's hearing have suggested that the immigrant community is disproportionately responsible for crimes so i'd ask consent to include a report that found foreign-born residents of the united states commit crimes less often than native-born citizens and another study that compares incarceration rates that comes to the same conclusion. >> without objection, the material will be included in the record. >> thank you, mr. chairman. and despite the objection of mr. smith this doesn't distinguish between illegal and legal immigrants, the report says, and i quote, a few studies using other data sources to
12:31 pm
differentiate the legal status have come to the conclusion immigrants, regardless of legal status, do not have higher crime rates and have three studies to support that. so i want to set the record straight that underlying claim is not true. also unanimous consent to introduce into the record a letter signed by a number of law enforcement leaders across the country criticizing the shifting of the burden of federal immigration law on to local law enforcement agencies. >> without objection that will be included, as well. >> thank you. and ms. pyati, i'd ask you, hundreds of law enforcement agencies throughout the united states have adopted community trust policies. these agencies everywhere from michigan, california, ohio, report that such policies far from increasing crime actually reduce it. and recent comprehensive studies have supported these claims statistically, showing that community trust jurisdictions are demonstratively safer than their counterparts. so why is that? can you help us understand why
12:32 pm
communities where these trust jurisdictions are actually protecting our constituents and providing safer communities, less crime, why is that happening? >> thank you very much, congressman. i think you actually said it yourself, you said the former chiefs in your jurisdiction indicated it's really that trust between the community and the police officers that allows for thorough reporting by victims. it allows for cooperation of witnesses, it allows for investigations into community, you know, knocking on doors and finding those witnesses who want to respond and offer what they've seen, what they've heard. there's really no way to prosecute and investigate crime committed by anyone, whether a citizen or legal immigrant or undocumented immigrant, there's no way of being able to document crime without participation of residents in the community, so that trust is the number one thing we're looking for. >> and is it -- you made some reference to an example of a case in which there has been
12:33 pm
someone who was murdered without the presence of two witnesses. are there other instances that you're aware of around the country where individuals have either been unwilling or unable to come forward because of immigration status, and how do you think the trump policy or trump administration's policies are making that either more likely or less likely to happen and what's the impact on the safety of our communities as a result? >> thank you, congressman. yes, i am aware of a number of cases around the country that really resinate with what i was sharing earlier. i would say that one of the things that happens is when a person is afraid to come forward and report crime or share information as a witness, we really are -- hands are tied behind our back in terms of investigating. we also then don't have a lot of media reports, for example, about those individuals because as data they are too afraid to come forward, so we don't get the splash we might get otherwise in these situations. i do know in el paso when there was an i.c.e. pick up of a woman
12:34 pm
while she was receiving her protection order, a message was sent loud and clear across the country, especially those survivors of violence, if you use the criminal justice system to report the crimes committed against you by an abuser, if you pursue what our system is here to offer, protection, safety for you and your family, you could be a victim of an arrest by i.c.e. in that moment and possibly deported. so that had a very significant chilling effect that our national hot lines, national advocates, and coalitions across the country that work on domestic violence have been reporting in the last month and a half or so. very significant dropoff. >> mr. chair, i would just say -- >> gentleman's time has expired. the gentleman from louisiana, mr. johnson. >> thank you, mr. chairman, thank all of you for being here. it's been a long day. we're almost done. sheriff, my first question's for you. last year i was a legislator in louisiana, state legislator, and
12:35 pm
in 2016 i co-authored a bill to prohibit sanctuary policies in our state by taking away their ability to borrow money from certain plonlts from our state bond commission. ultimately what happened down there, it was quite a saga, our democrat governor with an assistance with a few local law enforcement officials in the new orleans area killed our legislation. they argued that our efforts were political pandering and this was something that should remain solely a federal issue, so i just was curious from your perspective as a law enforcement official on the ground, as it were, you're the top law enforcement official in your county, i know that your state doesn't have such a ban, but if such a statute was presented in massachusetts or other states for that matter, do you think that's something that would be helpful? a state law to ban sanctuary cities? >> state law, congressman, sanctuary cities, yes, absolutely. i mean, look, the bottom line is, and i commend you for filing that down in louisiana, the
12:36 pm
reality is, that we're basically suggesting that there are certain laws we can enforce and certain laws we can't. law enforcement can't be put in that position and i think it's important to point out, our frontier has changed since '93 when the first trade center was hit in regards to how we police our communities. and so we're seeing a lot more gang activities through illegal immigration, and i know that these police chiefs, these are important for this committee to know, i'm not going to say all police chiefs, but it's important to be mindful of the fact police chiefs are appointed by mayors, sheriffs are not. we are elected by the people, as you are. so we're not beholden our jobs aren't relying in supporting our families based on the political appointments that we get. so i think it's important for the committee to keep that in mind when it comes to measuring what unfortunately chiefs -- many of the chiefs' positions
12:37 pm
that they have and have been put into. >> appreciate you saying that and wish i had your testimony in louisiana when i was battling that last year. >> any time you want me to come down. >> all right. we made the argument as john adams famously said, he was distinguishing our republic from the monarchy in great britain, famously said we're a nation of laws, not of men, and we have to follow those laws and it's important to do that on a local and regional level, just as it is on a federal level, or it undermines that foundation of our republic. another question, do you believe there's adequate collaboration currently between federal and local law enforcement agencies on addressing illegal immigration, more specifically, anything we can do with the sharing of intelligence? >> well, congressman, i think that there's always more we could do. i think there's some cyber things we can do, through the internet and so forth, that could help. in addition to the acceleration of the 287-g program.
12:38 pm
that becomes critically important, because within our prisons across this country, we really are the central intelligence base. the president pointed that out in a recent speech to the sheriffs, and i think most law enforcement people would agree with me, that that's critically important to have that information shared back and forth. so the extension of the 287-g acceleration of it would be great. >> on that same theme of technology, judge, this is for you, could you expand why it's more difficult for the court when asylum and border patrol agents interviews are not electronic? >> absolutely, and it's a very good question. often what will happen is, asylum officers will present what reports to be the statement of the alien, sometimes it's simply a summerization of what the alien said. if in court the alien is confronted by the i.c.e. attorney with a contrary statement to one that is contained in the asylum application, often they'll say i
12:39 pm
didn't say that, we reflect it. i don't have the asylum officer in front of me, and unfortunately, i.c.e. never provides them. so to have an actual electronic statement would allow me to look at that and better identify any true inconsistencies, which would greatly aid in the decision. >> thank you. i think i've got 30 seconds left. ms. vaughn, this one's for you. in your testimony you briefly mentioned how our local law enforcement agencies have been affected without the cooperation of i.c.e. officers. just wondering if you could expand on the state criminal alien assistance program and what changes to the reimbursement program might need to be made. >> i think it would be a good idea, more effective, to have that reimbursement funding tied to specific cooperation and that is honoring i.c.e. detainers. for example, they become ineligible for scout funding.
12:40 pm
i think that would be a simple fix to the program that would be more directly relevant to the situation today. >> time of the gentleman has expired. the gentlewoman from texas, ms. jackson-lee, will bat cleanup. >> let me thank the chairman and ranking member for a very important hearing. let me ask a straightforward question that deals with fixing the immigration laws and allowing individuals to come from out of the shadows and distinguishing individuals who are here opposed to criminals and others who happen to be on status. mr. hodgson, would you support comprehensive immigration reform? yes or no? >> congresswoman, i've been working on that 20 years. i've worked on the first bill that made it through the house. >> thank you, i was probably around at that time, good to see you. ms. vaughn, would you support comprehensive immigration reform? >> no, i think it would make much more sense. >> thank you.
12:41 pm
let me go on to mr. arthur. >> i would probably recommend enforcement of the immigration law -- >> would you support comprehensive immigration reform? it takes into account enforcement. if you look into it, would you support it? >> i would have to look into the particulars. >> all right. ms. pyati? >> yes, congresswoman, i would support it. >> thank you so very much. let me quickly move forward on my questioning. all of us were appalled at the killing of kate steinly and others who have suffered, but if we are to correlate that strategy to high crime work with nonstatus people as republicans will try to do, san francisco then would have a high murder rate and as of 2015 there was no rise in san francisco's murder rate in the 26 years it's had, in quote, a sanctuary city. in fact, the city's murder rate has fallen to its lowest level in decades, which i think is a very important point. the other point is, i would ask
12:42 pm
a yes or no question, do you think in the context of status that we're trying to deport the bad hombres that president trump said, is that, sheriff, what your focus would be, the bad hombres, yes or no? >> that's exactly what the priorities. >> thank you, ms. vaughn? >> according to the department of homeland security there are about 2 million -- >> mr. arthur? >> we should make them the top of the priority for deportation. of course, you know, others are -- >> thank you. mr. arthur? >> in my court i would see individuals who had committed serious domestic violence. >> you would think the bad elements should be the top priority, the bad hombres? >> unfortunately, until those people disappear from my court, i don't know why. yes, i think we should definitely remove individuals who commit serial drunk driving offenses like the chairman spoke
12:43 pm
about. >> thank you very much. pyati, your view of that? >> yes, thank you, congresswoman. >> i'm only rushing because i want to ask you a lengthier question. just yes or no, do you think it should be focused on the bad hombres that should be deported? >> i think we should be focusing on those with serious criminal violations, yes. >> thank you so much. i'd like to offer into the record this comment, trump supporter thought president would only deport bad hombres, up stead her husband is being deported. months later after he was deported, a respected member of town and father of children is in a detention facility as he awaits deportation back to mexico, a country he left in 1998 when he left the country illegally. i ask for that to be put into the record. >> without objection. >> thank you. i also ask to be put into the record the statement of the travers county sheriff's office
12:44 pm
policy on cooperation with the u.s. immigration and customs enforcement to negate any suggestions that the so-called sanctuary cities label is cities are not cooperating with i.c.e. unanimous consent to put that into the record? >> without objection. >> and i also ask to put into the record this statement from the constitutional lawyers that this is unconstitutional, the order by the president of the united states to penalize cities and deny them their money. i hope one of them will sue. >> reserving the right to object, who are these constitutional lawyers? >> i'm losing my time. i would hold that back. >> right to object. i'd like to find out. >> are you going to give me extra time? i have a question for ms. pyati. >> just answer my question. >> there is a long list of -- how many is it, staff? how much? no, there are more than that. they say they are representing
12:45 pm
292. 292, and they are from uc irvine, university of san francisco, denver, and smu school of law. southern methodist. >> the ranking member says she has already put that in the record. >> thank you. >> will you withdraw your unanimous consent request? >> yes, mr. chairman. >> okay, thank you. >> may i ask ms. pyati a question please? >> i ask unanimous consent the gentlewoman from texas be given an additional minute. >> i thank you, mr. chairman. ms. pyati, i am very familiar with the center. i think you know marty down in texas and we've been very close working on it. i think it is very important to reemphasize how lives can be saved when we give the opportunity for individuals who are unstatus to feel free to
12:46 pm
report threats that not only can jeopardize the lives of the significant others, the spouse, the girlfriend, but the children in that home or in that context. so would you explain the impact that you've seen, that the women that you've helped, of the children that have been involved and how important it is for there to be the freedom? >> the gentlewoman's time is expired, ms. pyati, you may answer the question. >> thank you very much. congresswoman, hello from our texas office, where you know we work hand in hand with houston police to help them identify and investigate trafficking in the area. our work there, i think, has been pioneering in attempting to bring trafficking as a crime under some kind of control. i can talk about -- right now you've asked me to share you something about a client. we do have a client that spoke at a briefing just a few weeks ago here in the house who shared that as a woman who met her husband, u.s. citizen, military husband, overseas, he brought
12:47 pm
her here to the united states and they had a child together. their son was autistic and the son was witnessing physical and emotional abuse in their home and was struggling significantly. she was afraid to contact law enforcement because her husband continued to say to her, i'm a citizen and you don't have status and if you call the police, you'll be deported and then our child will be with me and you're out of luck. so very desperately and very nervously she contacted with us for help and worked to build up her courage and eventually was able to cooperate with law enforcement and her husband was removed from the home, allowing the child then to really flourish. and his autism has now significantly improved. so we can see not just sort of emotional impact immediately, but certainly even cognitive and behavioral changes when abusers are removed from the home and women are able to care for their children in safety. >> thank you. thank the chairman and thank the
12:48 pm
witness. >> mr. chairman? >> gentlewoman from california. >> i'd like to ask unanimous consent to put into the record from chief justice of the california supreme court to the department of homeland security asking that enforcement in courtrooms in california cease. >> without objection. >> mr. chairman? >> gentlewoman from washington. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i ask unanimous consent to enter into the record the op-ed i referred to from our king county prosecutor, also a republican. >> without objection. >> thank you. >> i guess this shows that we republicans aren't like the rockettes. >> right. >> this concludes today's hearing. thanks to all of our witnesses for attending. without objection all members will have five legislative days to submit additional written questions to the witnesses or additional materials for the record and without objection the hearing is adjourned.
12:49 pm
12:50 pm
in the late 19th century and how powerful an office it was
12:51 pm
when theodore roosevelt surrenders power in order to shoot lions in africa. >> and sunday at 4:00 p.m. eastern on real america, the 1961 encyclopedia film with hoover. >> even though they had agreed to mr. wilson's 14 points, these delegates were determined not to let idealism stand in their way. not when it's inflicted with their own purposes and desires. >> for our complete american history tv schedule, go to c-span.korg. >> a look at highlights from the american israel policy conference featuring house speaker paul ryan on the six-day arab war and former canadian prime minister. senators harris and menendez
12:52 pm
lead off. >> good morning, aipac! good morning. what an honor. lillian, congratulations on your outstanding presidency. and it's great to be with you again this year. i also want to thank aipac's executive director and i'm just thrilled to see all of the students in the audience. in you i see our future. i want to especially recognize the nearly 1,000 californians who are here today. [ cheering ] and, of course, including my dear friends and aipac board members anita

28 Views

info Stream Only

Uploaded by TV Archive on